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A Thread for All Seasons: This Story Is Over, But Still Goes On.

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On 8/25/2017 at 0:39 PM, oncebluethrone said:

I would have loved it if Emma didn't grow up alone, but the fact that she did is a fundamental part of her character.

It is a fundamental part of her character, but towards the end it became ridiculous almost to the point of torture porn. She never lived in any foster home for more than six months?? That's pretty unbelievable. And she never had a long-term positive experience. Any major relationship she had turned out both short-lived, and/or with people from the EF. She ran away and was burning books to stay alive as a little child?? And yet, we're supposed be okay with everyone pretty much abandoning her to her fate becasue "destiny" or "heroism" or some such crap. Emma even thanks Regina for her terrible childhood because it made her strong, and I pretty much hate that concept. Emma became strong despite the terrible things she's been through, but I utterly reject the Wishverse idea that Emma would have grown up to be a childlike scaredy-cat if she had been brought up in a loving environment. In fact, Emma could have been brought up by Snowing and still grown into a strong woman who did not have WALLS, and hence was more emotionally mature and better able to deal with relationships. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

She ran away and was burning books to stay alive as a little child?? 

Thank goodness for August, eh?  He was such a great teenage detective, tracking her down like that.  Would Emma's flashbacks make any sense if put in chronological order and watched back-to-back?  

"If we believe in something strong enough, we all have the power to change our fate," says August.  Yeah, that philosophy has worked out soooooooooooo well for all the victims on this show.

Wouldn't Emma already be in the computer system?  She could just make up a new last name for herself?  

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I haven't watched any of the episode commentaries, but I happened upon the one for "7:15am" so I watched a bit of it.  It's with Ginnifer Goodwin and Josh Dallas.  It's kind of weird how they ask each other questions.  Anyway, I thought this exchange was interesting...

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JD: What do you what are the aspects that the Curse has stripped away from MM, in terms of who she is as Snow White?

GG: I've asked that a lot... of myself... (after talking for a long time)... It is a good question and I actually struggle with it a lot with the Curse, because I feel it's a lot clearer with some of the other characters than it is with Snow White and MM. "

 

On the surface, I'd always thought that the differences between Snow and MM were really obvious, but after hearing her talking, I can see it's not really that clear, and it becomes even more muddled as the series goes on.  The actress clearly over-thinks things a lot.  In this episode, for example, both MM and Snow pretty much goes through a similar situation of needing to repress their feelings because David/Charming is with someone else.  Was their response that different, really?  

And then later, in a scene with David and Abigail.

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GG: "I don't understand why David keeps saying to her let's work on this... ok I'll work on this..."
JJ: "I think it goes back to what's been taken away from him in the Curse. (talks for a while)"
GG: "But why does he have to go as far as saying let's work on this, I want to have a family with you?"

Edited by Camera One

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22 hours ago, daxx said:

I'm just starting my season 6 rewatch and I'm getting ragey again. Sigh. Emma flat out lies to Killian about the shaky hands, that still bothers me. Just say, yes it's something and I'll tell you, just give me a bit of time instead of promising it's nothing.

Why are you doing that to yourself????

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2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

It is a fundamental part of her character, but towards the end it became ridiculous almost to the point of torture porn. She never lived in any foster home for more than six months?? That's pretty unbelievable. And she never had a long-term positive experience. Any major relationship she had turned out both short-lived, and/or with people from the EF. She ran away and was burning books to stay alive as a little child?? And yet, we're supposed be okay with everyone pretty much abandoning her to her fate becasue "destiny" or "heroism" or some such crap. Emma even thanks Regina for her terrible childhood because it made her strong, and I pretty much hate that concept. Emma became strong despite the terrible things she's been through, but I utterly reject the Wishverse idea that Emma would have grown up to be a childlike scaredy-cat if she had been brought up in a loving environment. In fact, Emma could have been brought up by Snowing and still grown into a strong woman who did not have WALLS, and hence was more emotionally mature and better able to deal with relationships. 

I think that the writers were trying to say that the EQ sees Emma as weak without her savior status so that's what she was like in the Wish Realm. I in no way think that if Emma had grown up in a loving home she would have been like that, but that wasn't what was being shown. Emma thanking Regina did bother me a bit as well, but I think what the writers were trying to get across was what you said about being strong despite her experiences, they just did it very poorly. Emma's experience in the foster system is not the norm, but it doesn't bother me because I have a high suspension of disbelief (or is it strong?) and because I don't really care that it doesn't make sense. And the only people I remember abandoning Emma to her fate were Neal (who said he didn't want to and did anyways) and August (whose character is based on the bad choices he's made) so who is this everyone? Yes, Snowing did close the door on her, but I think that was less because she would never be the Savior and more that they didn't want to be responsible for possibly causing the curse to never be broken and leaving all those people to their fates.  

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I really believe that A&E made Emma weak in the Wish Realm because it was "funny".   It also indirectly says, thank goodness there was the Curse, or look how you would have turned out.

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To me, the scenes were played for comic effect, how weird it was to see a humming, carefree, incompetent full-on princess mode Emma.

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4 hours ago, Camera One said:

A&E don't understand that they can write whatever, but if the viewers don't believe in it, it makes the story a failure.  Henry was cool in Season 1, but in Season 2, he made multiple comparisons of pretty much everyone to Regina.  Especially in that episode where he was going to drop dynamite into the well.  Does A&E think because Henry equates Regina with Emma, Snow, etc., the audience will automatically believe it?  So what did Henry really think when he found out Cora threw Johanna off the clock tower with Regina looking on and doing absolutely nothing?  

Or arriving with Cora to fight with her against the Charmings and his parents to kill his grandfather? Ruby took off with him right before it happened but what did he think was going to happen? How was he not scared that most his family was about to be killed by Cora and Regina? How is it that he never once confronted Regina about that later? I miss the Henry of season 1 who knew without a doubt Regina murdered Graham and was scared that she'd kill Emma. Or even early season 2 in the second episode when he explained why he didn't want to live with her, how no one was going to want to come over because they were scared of her and asked how long he was going to be a prisoner. That Henry was no fool. 

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Adam is busy repeating his mantra, "You can't judge until you see".  

And then he deleted it all, but I managed to have the page open, so I can copy and paste for your enjoyment.

Once again, S6 was always planned as the "natural end point for the first chapter".  Yeah, whatever.

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Miss Ford‏ @FordMiss  6h6 hours ago

@AdamHorowitzLA did you plan the reboot before some of the cast decided they didnt want to stay for another season? Was it always the plan?

Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA

Replying to @FordMiss   we began talking about it as far back as s3 or s4, I think. In broad terms. We had looked at s6 as a natural end point for first chapter

And later on, he tried a new tack about the reboot.

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Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA

Replying to @ButtercupPB @BojiSmkv and 2 others

It's meant as a love letter to the audience. An attempt to further the spirit of ONCE. But I suppose you'll have to wait and see to decide.

3:42 PM - 26 Aug 2017

Don't forget, he has nooooooo idea what people want to see/watch.

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Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA  5h5 hours ago

Replying to @SkyRose95 @Rose23John @CaptainSwan861

Of course we want an audience, but there's no way to predict what people will or won't watch. So we trust our instincts

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We're all going to get a love letter starting October 6th.  Thanks but no thanks (but you know we'll all be at the post office).

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Of course we want an audience, but there's no way to predict what people will or won't watch. So we trust our instincts

Isn't predicting what people will watch part of their job description?

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7 hours ago, Camera One said:

Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA

Replying to @FordMiss   we began talking about it as far back as s3 or s4, I think. In broad terms. We had looked at s6 as a natural end point for first chapter

Not to be skeptical, but I suspect the reboot discussion really occurred in January when they were told they needed to cut the budget and make some changes if they wanted to get renewed and they realized that Morrison was serious about not returning.  

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1 hour ago, CCTC said:

Not to be skeptical, but I suspect the reboot discussion really occurred in January when they were told they needed to cut the budget and make some changes if they wanted to get renewed and they realized that Morrison was serious about not returning.  

Also skeptical, but they may have had some discussions around season 6 being a wrap up point since that is when most of the actors contracts come up for renewal.

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Regardless, they knew Josh and Ginny were goners for sure and still planned such a crappy piecemeal unsatisfying Season 6 which was all over the place.  If they had actually also planned for a reboot in Season 7, they are definitely more incompetent than even I had thought possible.

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13 hours ago, Camera One said:

It's meant as a love letter to the audience

This the exact phrase Brad Kern used to justify the crapfest that was Season 8 of Charmed.

With all the talk Rumple and The Black Fairy do about "family", it seems neither one gives a shit about Henry.

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With all the talk Rumple and The Black Fairy do about "family", it seems neither one gives a shit about Henry.

Rumple and The Black Fairy only seem to care about "family" when it suits them. What's treasured one day is expendable the next. Bae-who?

Is it sad I think Pan in the Underworld was probably the most authentic of the three of them?

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1 hour ago, Writing Wrongs said:

With all the talk Rumple and The Black Fairy do about "family", it seems neither one gives a shit about Henry.

According to A&E, Rumple being in The Last Supper in the season finale means that Henry and Rumple have a great familial relationship.  Seriously delusional.

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34 minutes ago, Camera One said:

According to A&E, Rumple being in The Last Supper in the season finale means that Henry and Rumple have a great familial relationship.  Seriously delusional.

Yes, I'm sure Jesus and Judas Iscariot had a great familial relationship at their Last Supper too.

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On 8/26/2017 at 0:46 PM, Camera One said:

Neal eventually saw Rumple as a hero?  Seriously?  

I guess that fell in with the "I love you, Papa" with a hug. And Rumple absorbing Neal into his body to keep him alive a little longer rather than keeping the dagger out of the hands of their enemy totally made up for Rumple letting him go through the portal alone. I guess Rumple dying to kill Pan made him a hero -- but then Neal squandered his sacrifice by bringing him back.

It seems to me that they treated Neal and Bae like two separate characters. Bae was the human McGuffin who provided motivation for Rumple. I don't think they cared about that story when it came to Neal, so they didn't bother with the reconciliation, didn't deal with the fact that Rumple murdered Neal's mother, didn't get into what Rumple did and who he hurt in order to reach Neal. I kind of get the impression that Neal was mostly there as a romantic interest for Emma, and to start a love triangle between Neal and Hook over Emma. That's another thing where they made an abrupt reversal. When Neal came along in the present, one of the first things we learned was that he was engaged, so we got Emma's reaction, and there was that whole "is Emma really just jealous?' storyline, with the "I love you" as he fell through the portal. Then immediately after the kiss with Hook, they learned Neal was okay, then the whole "Neal won't mind" conversation with Snow and the spat over the lighter between the guys, and Hook declaring that he'd back off and give Neal a chance. All of that seemed to be setting up a romantic triangle. And then they abruptly brought that to a screeching halt with 3B. It makes you wonder if they planned it and set it up, and then had a change of plans, either because they figured out for themselves that it wasn't going to be a real contest or because they got some kind of directive from on high from the network. It was in the publicity just before the start of 3B that they started really putting Colin out as a real part of the main cast, bringing him out with Jen, Lana, Ginnny, and Josh for the ABC morning shows, which makes me wonder if someone at the network decided Colin was their guy and they weren't going to bother with the triangle. Without the triangle, since they weren't really treating Neal like Bae and doing any of the storylines with Rumple (or even with Hook) that went with that, they didn't know what to do with him, and they have a bad case of Joss Whedon disease (no, not that one, the other one), of thinking it's bold and audacious to kill off characters who are in the opening credits, so they went for the drama of killing Neal rather than actually writing for him. If they got their plans for Neal nixed, that might explain why they killed the character but still went overboard in declaring his heroism.

As for the plans, with the amount of retconning going on, it's hard to see any true planned story arc. All they could have planned was that they would be losing cast around that time. They might have planned that Emma would get married, as a way of bringing her from solo to part of a community. Maybe they planned the Regina/Evil Queen split as an arc they wanted to do. But everything in season six was so random that it's hard to see it as being planned more than episode by episode. Just the way the Untold Stories were forgotten and that odd continuity glitch of Gideon being sent to kill the Savior in order to open the portal so the Black Fairy come come and fight the Final Battle with the Savior indicates that there was no planning whatsoever.

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37 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

And then they abruptly brought that to a screeching halt with 3B. It makes you wonder if they planned it and set it up, and then had a change of plans, either because they figured out for themselves that it wasn't going to be a real contest or because they got some kind of directive from on high from the network.

If this is to be believed... everything they ever do is deliberate and thoughtfully planned far in advance, you know.

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TVLINE | When in mapping out Season 3 did you decide upon Neal’s fate?

ADAM HOROWITZ | It was pretty early on. And as soon as we realized where it was going to go — and it was not a decision that was made lightly — we talked to Michael and we all kind of huddled together to come up with the best way to do it.
EDDY KITSIS | We kind of started setting it up in Neverland; watching his father sacrifice his life had a profound effect on Neal. And what we really wanted to tell is: What happens when the kid who was always the moral compass loses his father [Rumplestiltskin], they make up and then he finds himself, like father like son, repeating that same obsessive quest to get back? But when [Neal] realized there was a price to be paid, he didn’t run from it, he did it, so that his son [Henry] would see him as a hero the way that he eventually came to see his father.

TVLINE | Moving forward, what storytelling pros outweighed the cons?
KITSIS | The biggest con for us was we love Michael Raymond-James and we love that character. For us, it was a creative decision and it was an evolution in the character.
HOROWITZ | It was a storytelling choice but one that was made in the context of the larger story we’re trying to tell. When you’re telling a serialized show, you reach a point where you see the avenue it’s leading you towards and what’s going to happen there. You then have a choice — you can try to resist it and do something that doesn’t feel organic, or you can be true to it, even if it’s painful. And that’s what we did. We leave it to you and the audience to judge how you feel about it, but for us as storytellers, that was where it felt like it had to go. We didn’t want it to be exploitative, we didn’t want it to be about shock, that’s why it wasnt in the promos…. It was something we wanted to be emotional and real.

 

Edited by Camera One

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I know it has been mentioned before in the forums, but this picture I saw on Facebook just reiterates what amazing casting they do for young versions of the cast... If there was an Emmy for casting they would definitely deserve at least a nomination...IMG_0190.thumb.JPG.bed79f28b15b43512a697c93e0664389.JPG

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1 hour ago, Camera One said:

We kind of started setting it up in Neverland; watching his father sacrifice his life had a profound effect on Neal.

That didn't happen until the end of the Neverland arc. That's about the point where the tone abruptly shifted. Up through the previous episode, it had been very triangle-y. Then at the end of that arc, there was Rumple's sacrifice, and then the tag on the end of that episode with Hook showing up for Emma seemed to veer things very solidly in the direction of Captain Swan. The question is when they made the choice. Did they plan it in advance, or did they figure it out when they wrote the actual sacrifice? And it would have been nice if we'd actually seen signs of that profound effect. Wasn't he the one who shut down some of Belle's gushing about Rumple's heroism by pointing out that he only did it for them, not for the greater good?

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

What happens when the kid who was always the moral compass loses his father [Rumplestiltskin], they make up and then he finds himself, like father like son, repeating that same obsessive quest to get back? But when [Neal] realized there was a price to be paid, he didn’t run from it, he did it, so that his son [Henry] would see him as a hero the way that he eventually came to see his father.

Sounds like a cool story. Wish we'd seen it. I don't think we saw any of that. I guess we saw the obsessive quest, but "realizing the price to be paid" was idiocy, since he knew it was a trap and he had no plan beyond "revive the Dark One." What Neal did had nothing to do with being a hero. All he did was hand their enemy a major weapon, and then die. I guess he did send the message to Hook, but as far as we know, no one ever found out about that. Then Neal died so his father could tell them that the creepy stranger in town was their enemy.

Also, I really would love to have a chat with these writers about the desire to be a hero. A real hero is someone who does the right thing because it's good. Someone who wants to be seen as a hero is not really a hero. That's a glory hound. And yet this show repeatedly treats the desire to be a hero as a good thing. I guess I'm just being particularly irked by that right now because I spent the afternoon watching the live feed of the Houston Dunkirk, and the reporters have been trying to call the good old boys who came out with their fishing boats to rescue people from the floods heroes, and they shrug it off, saying they were just doing what needed to be done because people need help. That's a hero. If one of those guys said, "Well, I've always wanted my son to see me as a hero, so I came out here with my boat to be a hero," we'd think he was a jerk.

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It's also funny to watch pre-Dark One Rumple now knowing that his parents were Peter Pan and the Black Fairy. To me it totally diminishes his story in that originally he just seemed like a normal man driven to a desperate act to save his son. Now that we know both his parents turned into terrible villains it feels almost predictable.

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4 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I know it has been mentioned before in the forums, but this picture I saw on Facebook just reiterates what amazing casting they do for young versions of the cast... If there was an Emmy for casting they would definitely deserve at least a nomination...

Definitely. The kid-versions of the charatcers have usually been spot-on. The one time there was a huge disconnect between the child-and-adult versions was the casting of MRJ to pay adult Baelfire. And it was A&E who made the call. It sort of made sense with how they portrayed Neal in Tallahasse--as a drifter and a conman, but as they never showed how Baelfire turned into Neal, and retconned Neal into some kind of hero, while simultaneously destroying young Baelfire's charatcer, it got worse. 

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12 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

The one time there was a huge disconnect between the child-and-adult versions was the casting of MRJ to pay adult Baelfire. 

There was also August vs. Young Pinocchio.  But that was all because they wanted to trick us into thinking August was Baelfire.

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25 minutes ago, Camera One said:

There was also August vs. Young Pinocchio.  But that was all because they wanted to trick us into thinking August was Baelfire.

Somehow that doesn't bother me too much, becasue young Pinocchio was quite little, and he could have grown to become adult August. 

25 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

and Young Lily and Adult Lily

Yeah--that was a whole race-change there. 

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7 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Definitely. The kid-versions of the charatcers have usually been spot-on. The one time there was a huge disconnect between the child-and-adult versions was the casting of MRJ to pay adult Baelfire. And it was A&E who made the call. It sort of made sense with how they portrayed Neal in Tallahasse--as a drifter and a conman, but as they never showed how Baelfire turned into Neal, and retconned Neal into some kind of hero, while simultaneously destroying young Baelfire's charatcer, it got worse. 

That's what we really need. How did Bae turn into Neal? They could have shown parts of him changing. Being turned over to Pan by Hook, learning his father murdered his mother and all those years he spent on Neverland. Instead they chose to not show how Bae became Neal. How did he feel about any of that? How did he feel in season two when Hook, his mother's boyfriend now sniffing around Emma? They had so much they could have done with Neal. But instead throw Bae's really great character out the window by suddenly turning him into someone who wanted his father to kill someone. 

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16 hours ago, Camera One said:

According to A&E, Rumple being in The Last Supper in the season finale means that Henry and Rumple have a great familial relationship.  Seriously delusional.

Not much of the finale stuck in my memory (Hook and Charming and the beanstalk - which ended up being irrelevant) but didn't Gold show he was fine with sacrificing Emma and showed little regard for Henry in that very episode?    That is why I found in jarring that he was there because he showed he still did not care for any of them and would not have lost a wink of sleep if he would have had to let them all perished to be reunited with Belle and his son.  Gold has never shown any indication he has any feelings for Henry.  I also have no desire to see Gold and Belle in happy family scenes in her guest episode next season.  After all the abuse he heaped on her it just seems so irresponsible to show them as a happy couple, esp. when he really did nothing to show he has changed.

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Adam asked for questions for the NYC Comic Con, and so far, there are:

- 7 questions about Robin Hood and Outlaw Queen

- 4 questions about Regina

- 3 questions about Mulan 

- 3 questions about Zelena

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22 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

The one time there was a huge disconnect between the child-and-adult versions was the casting of MRJ to pay adult Baelfire. And it was A&E who made the call. It sort of made sense with how they portrayed Neal in Tallahasse--as a drifter and a conman, but as they never showed how Baelfire turned into Neal, and retconned Neal into some kind of hero, while simultaneously destroying young Baelfire's charatcer, it got worse. 

That would fit with my sense that they really treated Neal and Baelfire as two separate characters, rather than seeing Neal as the adult Baelfire. Neal's storylines had little to do with Bae's storylines. Aside from the rushed "I love you, Papa" and occasional snits at Rumple, the focus for Neal was on the relationships with Emma and with Henry. Neal's story barely touched on "Bae" stuff, like his issues with his father, what happened to his mother, his relationship with Hook, his transition into Neal, his life in Neverland, his life once he got back to this world, etc.

On 8/27/2017 at 7:06 PM, Kktjones said:

It's also funny to watch pre-Dark One Rumple now knowing that his parents were Peter Pan and the Black Fairy. To me it totally diminishes his story in that originally he just seemed like a normal man driven to a desperate act to save his son. Now that we know both his parents turned into terrible villains it feels almost predictable.

That's an interesting point. There's actually a lot of "specialness" going on with this show. It does tend to happen in fantasy, but if you look at the former main cast, we've got:
Rumple -- born as a Savior (but got his fate snipped), son of Peter Pan and the Black Fairy, became the Dark One and absorbed the seer's powers
Regina -- daughter of a prince and the Queen of Hearts who's also the Miller's Daughter from the Rumpelstiltskin fairy tale, has magical powers, was destined to cast the curse
Emma -- born the Savior, a True Love baby, destined to break the curse, destined to battle the Black Fairy in the Final Battle, has the greatest light magic (which apparently is so rare they had to cast the curse to get to her because there was no one in their world who had it -- other than, it seems, Regina sometimes)
Henry -- son of the Savior, adopted son of the Evil Queen, grandson of Snow White and Prince Charming and of the Dark One, the Truest Believer, became the Author
Snow -- practically ordinary by being just a princess

Then we've got our ordinary Joes with Belle, Hook, and David. I guess Belle is some kind of nobility. She and her father talk like they're responsible for their land, but I don't think any particular titles have been mentioned. Is Maurice the king of his own adjacent kingdom or a noble within Misthaven? Or is he just some kind of landed gentry who's responsible for his estate and his tenants but doesn't hold a title (like a Mr. Darcy)?

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Snow -- practically ordinary by being just a princess

Season 1 made it seem like her love with Charming was very special True Love, but now we know everyone and their pet cow can have the same power.

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On today's edition of Adam's Corner.

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Sarah Blanc‏ @BlancSarah  15m15 minutes ago
 @AdamHorowitzLA I'm a writer and I want to work with TV, so what things that inspire you to write? What did inspire you to write OUAT?


 Adam Horowitz‏t @AdamHorowitzLA  6m6 minutes ago
 My love of fairy tales and my desire to do a show that was unapologetically optimistic, hopeful and uncynical.

Here's to the optimism, hope and uncynical ending of Once's "The Count of Monte Cristo".

We saw Regina at the tree of regret.  Do you wonder what Adam wish he could change from the last few years of OUAT?

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 Queen‏ @jourdan_maria  37 minutes ago
 If you could go back and change anything that happened in the years of OUAT, what would you change and Why?? @AdamHorowitzLA

 Adam Horowitz @AdamHorowitzLA  35 minutes ago
 During season 2, I got food poisoning from some takeout.  I'd go back and not order that meal.

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He's such a dick on Twitter. I don't know why he couldn't answer what seems like a genuine question. It doesn't need to be a negative. It could be something like, "I would have loved to have explored more of X character/world or taken more time with Y story." The Taser of Doom answer they've given in the past always showed me how incapable they are of self-analysis and self-criticism. It's not easy to admit you've made mistakes, but it makes you seem less arrogant and human when you can admit to some flaws in the story. I'd be more forgiving of the crap they've dished out if they responded more honestly rather than putting down fans' criticisms of the show. People expressing frustration with the Captain Swan resolution in the 4A finale did not deserve to be put down with a response that they couldn't make a show of just 42 minutes of kissing. 

 

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My desire to do a show that was unapologetically optimistic, hopeful and uncynical.

Someone should tweet this quote back with pictures of all the dead bodies left in the many village massacres seen on the show. 

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I was reading another old interview, and it's funny how they make distinctions between words.

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HOROWITZ: These fairy tales always have an element of darkness, and for us, there’s a big distinction between darkness and unpleasantness. And we never want to go there. We’re never going to be a serial killer show. We want to touch on the darkness and the scariness that are inherent in these stories.

This is how much thought the put into some of their fairy tale "cameos".  Some of them are just replacements for redshirts.

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KITSIS: To us, it’s much more fun that Robin Hood steals from Rumpelstiltskin, and that’s who he’s going to kill, as opposed to Knight #3. But what happens then is that people are like, “Hey, it’s a new character!”

Interviewer: So when you drop in somebody like Robin Hood, you don’t necessarily intend him to get a backstory episode. It’s a possibility, but it’s not inevitable.

KITSIS: It is not. Would we like to tell a Robin Hood backstory? Someday, but not at the expense of the other characters.

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On 8/27/2017 at 1:20 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Yes, I'm sure Jesus and Judas Iscariot had a great familial relationship at their Last Supper too.

"I can't do it for you; you have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot had God on his side"

Judas is an interesting character.  Jesus needs someone to betray him so He can die on the cross.  If not Judas, then one of the other disciples had to do it.  A question then arises: Does God manipulate Judas into betrayal. Until  the moment in the garden, Jesus and Judas did have a "great familial relationship" -- at least as good as Thomas or Peter.

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

I was reading another old interview, and it's funny how they make distinctions between words.

Quote

We’re never going to be a serial killer show.

 

Funny how no one told Regina or Rumple that.

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7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Funny how no one told Regina or Rumple that.

Or Cora for that matter!

Do they even watch their own show? Do they really think it's unapologetically optimistic, hopeful, and uncynical? Really? I can think of like 20 examples just off the top of my head that completely contradict that. Here are a few:

  • Regina rapes and murders Graham - a good man who in the past saved both Snow and Charming - and is never punished for it. In fact, no one ever even finds out!
  • Robin Hook, a good man and father of two small children is raped and then murdered, but it's all framed in terms of how it impacts Regina.
  • Emma takes on the darkness to save Regina and the rest of the town, but becomes the dark one and ultimately has to kill her true love b/c he was injured while saving her mother's life. So optimistic and hopeful. Do the right thing and you too can have your life ruined.

Anyway, I just don't understand how they get to call this a show about hope. What does that even mean? That you can always hope for things to work out? Like how they worked out for Robin? Or Neal? Or Marian? Or Milah? It will be interesting to see if they continue with the "hope" line in S7. They left everyone with happy endings at the end of S6. If this season messes with that, I really have to wonder what they're talking about.

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They left everyone with happy endings at the end of S6. If this season messes with that, I really have to wonder what they're talking about.

The main characters should have eaten their big dinner next to the giant mountain of bodies of people they murdered. 

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9 hours ago, jhlipton said:
12 hours ago, Camera One said:

I was reading another old interview, and it's funny how they make distinctions between words.

Quote

We’re never going to be a serial killer show.

 

Funny how no one told Regina or Rumple that.

To be fair, Regina was more of a mass murderer than serial killer.

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1 hour ago, CCTC said:

To be fair, Regina was more of a mass murderer than serial killer.

Hmm, I don't know. I seem to recall her killing some guards or jesters just for funsies. She actually knocks two of her knights dead in her musical number, but it's hard to catch.

Quote

And why did it not have any black in it?

Adam claims the glamour spell made it the heart look clean.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I blame this show for adding to my Google search history: "What is the difference between a mass murderer and a secret teller".

Fixed that for you. ;)

Edited by KingOfHearts
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1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Hmm, I don't know. I seem to recall her killing some guards or jesters just for funsies. She actually knocks two of her knights dead in her musical number, but it's hard to catch.

She really was an over-achiever when it came to killing.  She was adept at different ways, styles, number of people, cold blooded and calculated, heat of the moment, for kicks etc.

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