S04.E16: Bodhi Leaf Coffee Traders

[Amarsir]

Quote

A California entrepreneur went all in on a coffee business with no prior experience. His gamble paid off big, but now he’s in over his head.

[Whimsy]

Thanks for starting this.  I meant to yesterday.  Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't buy coffee called "Red Beard".  Makes me think I'll find something else in my coffee besides beans...

I think the cousin (or whatever family relation he was) had some serious mental issues.  When he said that he didn't say what he literally said a minute earlier was bonkers.

[Thrifty]

It's an interesting episode.  It reminds me a lot of Mr. Green Tea.  The business wasn't in trouble, but the owner needed some help.  I thought Marcus took too big a cut of the equity for what he provided though.

 

Jeff was an interesting person.  I found it amusing how we kept seeing this cycle:

 

Random employee: Jeff does this.

Jeff: No I don't.

Another employee: Yeah and he also does this.

Jeff: No I don't.

 

His lying wasn't very nuanced.  Just kind of simplistic, repeated denial and hoping that it would stick.  Loved the part near the end where Jeff made some claim, and like a minute later said "I never said that!".  I was thinking "we just got it on camera.  Should we roll the tape?"

 

I think Jeff is still a good guy.  He was with Bodhi Leaf from the beginning, and was probably a really good employee, but as the company grew, he just became complacent.  I hope that he can find success in life and maybe even get a second chance at Bodhi Leaf.

[Amarsir]

23 minutes ago, GenL said:

I think the cousin (or whatever family relation he was) had some serious mental issues.  When he said that he didn't say what he literally said a minute earlier was bonkers.

 

22 minutes ago, Thrifty said:

His lying wasn't very nuanced.  Just kind of simplistic, repeated denial and hoping that it would stick.  Loved the part near the end where Jeff made some claim, and like a minute later said "I never said that!".  I was thinking "we just got it on camera.  Should we roll the tape?"

There's clearly something wrong there. A couple times I almost wanted to defend him: I don't think a salesman necessarily has to have the inventory value memorized, nor is it bad that he was walking through the building and saw something that needed cleaning. But the way he put his foot in his mouth over and over. I wondered if it was Pathological Liar Disorder or something related.

BTW the sales call - which I agree was terrible - was rejected very weirdly. "I can't make my mind up because you didn't tell me any of your history." Who says that on a buying decision? I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but it's a fairly subconscious thing. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Amarsir

[ae2]

There was a lot of crazy weirdness going on with Jeff, but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that it was mostly editing. I doubt he was competent for the job he was doing, but I also doubt he was as bad as we saw. He was clearly the "villain" character in this episode.

• Everyone ganging up on him one after the other, and the biggest "proof" they can bring is he asked an employee to sweep behind a coffee grinder. Which, by the way, probably gets really dirty.
• Marcus told him that if he notices something is dirty and needs cleaned/swept he should... completely ignore the problem.
• Jeff's stuttering at the sales pitch was almost as bad as Christina Tosi's choking on pepper during the last MasterChef episode. (Read: made for television)
• Jeff saying something, Marcus pointing out that he said it not 30 seconds before, and Jeff denying it or not realizing what he said... that's something I've seen happen frequently when two people are fighting. I think that's an emotional thing rather than symptomatic of a bigger problem.

That said, the people you need around you when you're just starting out as a business are rarely the same people you need around you when you're generating $6mm+. It was definitely time for him to go or move into a different role.

1 hour ago, Amarsir said:

 

There's clearly something wrong there. A couple times I almost wanted to defend him: I don't think a salesman necessarily has to have the inventory value memorized, nor is it bad that he was walking through the building and saw something that needed cleaning. But the way he put his foot in his mouth over and over. I wondered if it was Pathological Liar Disorder or something related.

BTW the sales call - which I agree was terrible - was rejected very weirdly. "I can't make my mind up because you didn't tell me any of your history." Who says that on a buying decision? I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but it's a fairly subconscious thing. 

I think he said this because the sales pitch was not just any sales pitch, but a Marcus Lemonis, "hey, I'm going to bring in this company I'm working with to test out one of  the guy's sales pitch abilities" sales pitches. In other words, he was asked to evaluate the pitch itself rather than just giving a polite yes/no answer. (I also wouldn't be surprised if he was coached beforehand to listen for the company's story, but that's venturing pretty far into speculative territory.)

Maybe I misunderstand all the nuance of ownership in a company like this, but I wish Marcus went more into the details of his offer. Why would the other investors  willingly  let their  equity be diluted so much more than Steve's? Does Steve have the ability to make that decision, or were there off-screen negotiations we weren't privy to?

Their percentage dropped from 49% to 20%, while Steve's went from 51% to 40%. But they're not getting anything more out of Marcus investment. The cash all went into the business for inventory, so there's no payout. Yes, the business is  technically worth $1.75mm more (plus whatever value you place on Marcus involvement), but they don't see any of that cash or benefit from it any more than Steve does.

[Gregg247]

I also felt bad for the "unseen" investors.  They bought in to the company early on for 49% of the equity, and suddenly, once the company becomes a success, they get knocked down to 20%.  I would pitch a fit if I were them.

Steve the owner was a perfect partner for Marcus, in that he was reasonable, quiet, and did whatever Marcus told him to do.  It didn't exactly make for riveting television, though.  The poor sales guy got the designator Villain role.  Maybe it was deserved, maybe it wasn't.  All I know is, at the beginning of the episode, he showed his white board where he had 160 corporate wholesale accounts he was responsible for.  That's pretty impressive, no matter what Marcus says.  The "sales pitch" scene seemed too awful to have been authentic.  There's no way this guy would have flubbed a meeting that badly.

[Thrifty]

1 hour ago, Gregg247 said:

  The "sales pitch" scene seemed too awful to have been authentic.  There's no way this guy would have flubbed a meeting that badly.

Well he was under a microscope.  He had Marcus Lemonis watching, AND a TV crew.  I think he was just really nervous.

[KHenry14]

Interesting ep.   While the business was churning 6 mil a year, it seemed so cash poor that it wasn't going to be able to buy new inventory. That might make the investors more than willing to dilute their holdings. 

 

IMO, this investment might be Marcus' biggest success since Sweet Pete's. The product in outstanding, the business model is good, and they seem to have a handle on inventory and sales now. Only thing I don't like is the company name. I get that Bodhi is sanskrit for nirvana, which could make sense, but how many people will get that reference? And leaf makes me think of tea, not coffee. 

Great edit for this ep too. Made me want to drive to the OC to get some, and I HATE coffee.

[seacliffsal]

I really disliked the Red Beard labeling.  The drawing looked like a grade school made it, and Red Beard says nothing about the product.  I know Marcus wanted his own 'starbucks' with a pirate rather than a mermaid, but the diagonal red block behind a really poor drawing does nothing to sell the brand IMO.  Also, the leaf on the original Bodhi brand made me think of tea, not coffee.

So, now Marcus has a tea company as well as a coffee company-trying for related market shares.

[ae2]

1 hour ago, KHenry14 said:

Interesting ep.   While the business was churning 6 mil a year, it seemed so cash poor that it wasn't going to be able to buy new inventory. That might make the investors more than willing to dilute their holdings. 

It seems like a company at that point should have little problem getting a business loan. Especially with well over $1mm in assets. I don't recall them discussing debt either. But maybe it's harder than I realize!

[cooksdelight]

I sent this to Marcus, after telling him he needs someone to do design work for him since that logo he had looked like a kid did it. And this is just a rough pen sketch, nothing finalized.... but still....

 

[toodles]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

I sent this to Marcus, after telling him he needs someone to do design work for him since that logo he had looked like a kid did it. And this is just a rough pen sketch, nothing finalized.... but still....

 

I like it!

I thought Jeff had crazy eyes, and looked like he enjoyed smoking some plants of the herbal variety, if you know what I mean.

[seacliffsal]

Love the new logo cooksdelight!  So much better and would appeal to a lot of people.

[cooksdelight]

Thank you, it's just a rough sketch but at least you get coffee and beard. Would really look sharp in a dark red gradually changing to brown as it goes up.

[Kenz]

On 7/12/2017 at 9:15 AM, Gregg247 said:

 The poor sales guy got the designator Villain role.  Maybe it was deserved, maybe it wasn't.  All I know is, at the beginning of the episode, he showed his white board where he had 160 corporate wholesale accounts he was responsible for.  That's pretty impressive, no matter what Marcus says.  The "sales pitch" scene seemed too awful to have been authentic.  There's no way this guy would have flubbed a meeting that badly.

I agree. I kept saying to my husband that he manages all of those corporate accounts and the business has been growing, so he can't be THAT bad. He had also been with the company from the start. Yes, he had a strange personality, but I think they edited him to look totally inept. If I were him and had been totally disgraced and fired on national TV, I would want to hide away forever. This show always has to have a villain, and I believe that sometimes they go too far in demonizing them.

[cooksdelight]

Exactly, I said "This must be this episode's villain..." The thing that had me wondering about him was his constant "I didn't say that" when he just said it. He may have some type of memory impairment. Or he just won't own his own words. He was the owner's wife's cousin, so he's family. He is an inside salesman, in that he just talks to people on the phone and keeps track of who is ordering what, he never has to deal with the public. 

[Thrifty]

I was actually kind of uncomfortable with the scene where they were in the warehouse and all the employees were ganging up on him.

[ae2]

On 7/13/2017 at 8:09 AM, cooksdelight said:

I sent this to Marcus, after telling him he needs someone to do design work for him since that logo he had looked like a kid did it. And this is just a rough pen sketch, nothing finalized.... but still....

I'm confused. Did they show a different logo during the episode than what they're actually using now? I don't recall what they showed (okay, I may have dozed off at the very end).

This is what Red Beard is actually using. I'm not particularly fond of the branding but it doesn't look like a child drew the logo. (And btw, I do like your concept better!)

[cooksdelight]

They showed the head, not a circle around it. And thank you. :)

I've never in favor of a logo showing an actual likeness of the owner, and I thought he was against that as well.

[Thrifty]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

They showed the head, not a circle around it. And thank you. :)

I've never in favor of a logo showing an actual likeness of the owner, and I thought he was against that as well.

He was, but Marcus got him to change his mind.

[ClareWalks]

A coffee company having a circular logo is, IMO, a mistake. Looks like you're ripping off Starbucks.

[surveyandprotect1]

Two things I don't see being talked about -

 

what happended to his famous closing line?

 

"with this check - I'm 100% in charge"

 

also why are we seeing "the partner" Jullianna on these episodes? I expected to see her on this season on at least a few episodes.

[TVbitch]

I am in advertising and Marcus seriously needs to stop trying to do branding. :)

I also don't want to associate beards with my food products. 

Bodhi was not a bad name. I didn't even get that it was the guys name at first, I thought it was some zen term for "higher level" or something. In fact, I just googled it, and it does mean "enlightenment". So it was actually pretty fucking perfect for primo coffee and for a dude named Bodhi. But I didn't get why it was "Bodhi Leaf," cuz that totally says tea, not coffee beans! 

Edited July 16, 2017 by TVbitch

[tobeannounced]

ITA that Red Beard logo was laughable. It looks like a composite sketch of a bank robber wearing a fake beard. And just personal preference, but I really find those kind of beards unappealing, and the only thing that logo does for me is make me think about beard pubes in my coffee, blech.

Edited July 16, 2017 by tobeannounced

[qtpye]

Bodhi seemed like a nice guy, but his beard was dry and gross. The logo also kind of makes him look like a garden gnome.

[Gregg247]

If you ever want to tick off Marcus, you don't insult his family, you don't insult his looks, you don't insult his net worth, you don't insult his show.  You attack his ability at marketing/branding.  He goes off like a an angry hornet's nest.  

The funny thing is, I think branding may be his weak suit in a business setting.  He definitely needs help in that area, but I think he does it himself (or has his staff follow his orders explicitly).

If I ever met Marcus in person and wanted to take him down a peg or two, I'd say something like, "Marcus I love your show and all the cool and successful business deals you've done, but that logo you came up with for <fill in the blank> that one time was terrible!", and then sit back and watch him explode. haha

[TVbitch]

I had that feeling too, like branding is the area where he feels he is being all "creative" and stuff, but that is NOT his strength! 

FYI, my neighbor is an exec for NCR (register and inventory systems) and has worked personally with Marcus. She says he is a dick and super hard to work with! (But I don't want to believe it!!) 

[qtpye]

29 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I had that feeling too, like branding is the area where he feels he is being all "creative" and stuff, but that is NOT his strength! 

FYI, my neighbor is an exec for NCR (register and inventory systems) and has worked personally with Marcus. She says he is a dick and super hard to work with! (But I don't want to believe it!!) 

THIS is disappointing....we would love it you share any dish you get from your neighbor.

 

2 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

If you ever want to tick off Marcus, you don't insult his family, you don't insult his looks, you don't insult his net worth, you don't insult his show.  You attack his ability at marketing/branding.  He goes off like a an angry hornet's nest.  

The funny thing is, I think branding may be his weak suit in a business setting.  He definitely needs help in that area, but I think he does it himself (or has his staff follow his orders explicitly).

If I ever met Marcus in person and wanted to take him down a peg or two, I'd say something like, "Marcus I love your show and all the cool and successful business deals you've done, but that logo you came up with for <fill in the blank> that one time was terrible!", and then sit back and watch him explode. haha

 

On 7/16/2017 at 5:57 PM, tobeannounced said:

ITA that Red Beard logo was laughable. It looks like a composite sketch of a bank robber wearing a fake beard. And just personal preference, but I really find those kind of beards unappealing, and the only thing that logo does for me is make me think about beard pubes in my coffee, blech.

 

On 7/15/2017 at 9:30 PM, TVbitch said:

I am in advertising and Marcus seriously needs to stop trying to do branding. :)

I also don't want to associate beards with my food products. 

Bodhi was not a bad name. I didn't even get that it was the guys name at first, I thought it was some zen term for "higher level" or something. In fact, I just googled it, and it does mean "enlightenment". So it was actually pretty fucking perfect for primo coffee and for a dude named Bodhi. But I didn't get why it was "Bodhi Leaf," cuz that totally says tea, not coffee beans! 

Seriously, why does the man think he is good at branding?  I remember for a time it seemed like his color choices and designs were trying to turn every business into a poor man's Best Buy and they were not even selling electronics or appliances.  It is one area where the emperor has no clothes.

[TVbitch]

I will ask my neighbor to remind me of her Marcus stories! I know she got a million dollar check from him at one point and she had never seen such a thing! (Usually those kinds of transactions are not done by check!) So maybe his check's are legit!  And I do know the dog store (Bentley's ?!) is still her account. 

[Whimsy]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:56 PM, TVbitch said:

I will ask my neighbor to remind me of her Marcus stories! I know she got a million dollar check from him at one point and she had never seen such a thing! (Usually those kinds of transactions are not done by check!) So maybe his check's are legit!  And I do know the dog store (Bentley's ?!) is still her account. 

Just remember that any additional stories from your neighbor should go into the "small talk" thread.

[Thrifty]

On 7/17/2017 at 6:09 PM, TVbitch said:

I had that feeling too, like branding is the area where he feels he is being all "creative" and stuff, but that is NOT his strength! 

FYI, my neighbor is an exec for NCR (register and inventory systems) and has worked personally with Marcus. She says he is a dick and super hard to work with! (But I don't want to believe it!!) 

Marcus is pretty tough on the show.  You can see how he causes a lot of conflicts with the business owners.  We like Marcus a lot more because we are detached 3rd parties.  Someone who has to answer to him could have a differing view.

[TeapotWakeen]

Just saw this episode for the first time. Y'all are missing a vital component to Jeff's "I didn't say that" comebacks --- it wasn't word-for-word what he said. Jeff said to Red Beard "Are YOU selling 3 containers of coffee a month?" Red Beard and Marcus: "You just asked if he's selling 3 to 5 containers a month?" Jeff: "I didn't say that!"  (meaning, he didn't say 3 to 5, he only asked about 3.) In Jeff's mind, he's being misquoted because, it's true, he didn't say "3 to 5"!  Yes, I do know several people who would continue to argue that they were misquoted, and therefore DIDN'T say that. Do none of y'all have any pedants in your family?  Want some of mine? 🙄😒