Star Trek: The Next Generation - General Discussion

[yeswedo]

Mod @radishcake shared this info with me to pass on to everyone here. Mark from Mark Watches is doing a watch of Star Trek. Currently he is on TOS and will also be watching the movies and eventually TNG. Based on his current schedule it appears that TNG will start around February, 2015. Mark your calendars!

[John Potts]

"If you can't take a little bloody nose , maybe you ought to go home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out there. It's wonderous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." from "Q Who", back when both Q and the Borg were scary.

Edited July 12, 2014 by John Potts

[Chip]

This is not a quote from an actual episode, but when the finale aired for the first time, my friend and I were obviously very excited. At the very end, my roommate came in, watched the very end and summed it up with, "The bald guy played poker, hope you're all happy".

[SVNBob]

And the Mission Log Podcast, which has been doing the same thing but a little slower, should be starting TNG tomorrow.

Edit: Actually, I was off by a week. They start TNG coverage on July 31st.

Edited July 26, 2014 by SVNBob

[wanderingstar]

Saw the cast at Chicago Comic Con (officially called Wizard World) today. They're a fun bunch. Was thrown off by William Shatner being the moderator.

[RandomWatcher]

Patrick Stewart, Gates McFadden, and Brent Spiner have done the Ice Bucket Challenge.

[rereader2]

I adored Patrick Stewart's take. :)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju5VxyM3S4o

[Maverick]

The Inner Light was submitted for The Canon this week on Extra Hot Great. Take a listen to hear if it made it!

 

 Unpopular opinion:  I never cared for this episode.  I also have a rather intense dislike of The Perfect Mate.

 

 

Michelle Forbes (Ensign Ro) is appearing on Orphan Black and a lot of posters mentioned how much they have liked her since ST:TNG. I never truly felt anything for the character and was annoyed with the character in that kids episode. I didn't realize she was so popular among TNG fans.

 

 I believe a lot of fans liked her because she wasn't a goody-two shoes Starfleet officer like the rest of the crew (however acting like a bitch < committing revenge murder so I don't think she was the most anti-Starfleet type in the crew).  I thought she was an interesting character to introduce but she was a little two-dimensional.  She hates everyone!  She's mean to Troi!  She thinks Guinan's an intrusive freak!   She had potential but they declawed her to quickly and the actress wasn't into the role.  I remember reading the producers kept calling her and practically begged her to come back and she finally told them to leave her the hell alone.

 

A one hour episode of STTNG, cut down to under five minutes, without losing the plot. I remember when this episode originally aired!

 

 Ugh.  Even at 5 minutes that episode is too long.  I'm still pissed they were in the second half of the final season and wasted an episode on Wes.  But then, a lot of their decisions in the end of the final season baffle me.   How do pick the dreck that was Emergence over a final Dixon Hill adventure?  And a follow up to The Battle?  Yes, there's an episode that fans were clamoring for a follow up to for 7 years.  It's a shame they couldn't squeeze in a sequel to Justice or Home Soil too.

 

 And speaking of the first season, BBCAmerica has finally started airing the first two seasons.  I hadn't seen them in years and OMG...I knew those seasons were--saying uneven is being kind--but I had forgotten just how bad it was.  The stilted dialogue, the overdramatic acting, the cheesy production values.  Some of them are bearable but a lot of these episodes are just painful to watch. 

[Jeezaloo]

I guess if you're sitting on a tack then everything seems uncomfortable.

[rereader2]

I rather liked the early seasons. 

 

Actually, I liked them a lot, even though there were things in them I enjoyed criticizing. 

[Snarklepuss]

I remember when watching the early seasons didn't provoke me to laughter, but I have to admit that seeing them now they do look quite cheesy.  Of course, in a totally nostalgic way.  I remember thinking they were light years ahead of TOS at the time, but now I think they are starting to feel more like TOS to me.  What really amazes me is how "normal" everything looks now from this series.  The "wow' factor is totally gone for me now.  Aside from transporters, warp drive, replicators, the holodeck (although they're working on some of that) and those immediate healing wands, we pretty much have all those technological advancements now.  I remember thinking at the time that we would never have any of them in my lifetime, especially the communicator.  In effect, today I wear one every day (a bluetooth).

 

I always loved Ensign Ro.  Her badass yet principled, individualisic style contrasted with all the other goody two shoes, toe the Starfleet line characters.  I think the audience could identify with her in that way.  The fact that she was a woman was totally amazing for me at the time because characters like hers, up until that point, were usually men.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

Oh well, I came here to add the "good tea, nice house" quote, but someone beat me to it!

 

How about "All hands abandon ship, all hands abandon ship!" from my very favorite episode?

[Ubiquitous]

A one hour episode of STTNG, cut down to under five minutes, without losing the plot. I remember when this episode originally aired!

 

I hated the Traveler. I always got the feeling he was some sort of intergalactic child molester who used that "you're special" routine to get boys to go camping alone with him...

[wanderingstar]

Yeah, she is, but I never understood it either.  She varied between doing nothing for me to annoying me.

 

 

That's mostly my feeling about Ro as well. I didn't realize she was popular among fans. But then I never saw what the big deal was with Tasha Yar either.

[Maverick]

 I don't recall Yar being very popular.  I thought it was interesting what they did with her in Yesterday's Enterprise, but I think bringing her back as Sela was almost universally panned.

 

 Ro OTOH, was extremely popular at the time.  As I recall, the producers wanted to bring her back more (and maybe even make her a regular) but she wasn't interested to the point where she told them to quit asking.    

[Jeezaloo]

I hated the Traveler. I always got the feeling he was some sort of intergalactic child molester who used that "you're special" routine to get boys to go camping alone with him...

LOL

 

"Yes Wesley ... the key to understanding the universe is in ... my front pants pocket. No, I won't tell you which one..."

[Pippin]

I also have a rather intense dislike of The Perfect Mate.

 

Oh, Maverick, I hate "The Perfect Mate" with the pure intense hate of a thousand novas.  I thought it was a masturbatory fantasy when it first aired and I haven't changed my mind in the interval.

 

Space has the rights to STNG for infinity, it seems, as it's airing the first season again.  Distance and some equilibrium now allow me to admit that the first season had more than its fair share of stinkers.  (There were some good episodes, too; don't get me wrong.)  There's a very funny demotivational poster kicking around the web; it shows a screen cap from "Justice" and says "It gets better."  The next picture is from "Angel One".  And the caption is "No, really, it does."  (I think it's on Cheezburger somewhere, but there's a huge backlog of Trek-related humour on that site). 

I think NextGen got a lot of breaks during its first run as far as those sub-par episodes go because we, as fans, were just so darn happy to have Trek back.  Not like the world-weary and cynical bunch who greeted some of the later series (and hastened the exit of Trek from TV).  We were wiling to forgive the turkeys because we had Trek back on the tube!

And just to prove I'm not a complete curmudgeon, I'll say that I liked "Encounter at Farpoint"; "The Big Goodbye" (if you didn't like that, there's something wrong with you); "Conspiracy" (pity that never went anywhere"); 1010001" (or whatever; the one about Binars) and "The Arsenal of Freedom" from season 1.  Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my critical little head.

And just for the record, I loved Jean-Luc Picard from the first time he opened his mouth.

 

However, I think the series really hit its stride in the third season, and conversely, I think the writers were on some really cheap drugs in the 7th.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Pippin

[Maverick]

 I liked all those episodes too.  11001001 was probably my favorite.  I loved Minuette.  Arsenal of Freedom was good, except everyone on the bridge was so shouty (this was a problem throughout the first season).  Encounter at Farpoint gets some slack because it's the pilot and it has some good points.  Q being menacing (instead of comic relief), the post-atomic horror, the saucer sep.  But then you gets things like the glowy, fuzzy alien flying saucers holding hands, Wes getting to sit in the captain's chair (and Beverly's bitchy attitude as Wes is hustled off the bridge) and of "PAIN!".   Also a problem, everyone says "sir" after every other word.  Seriously.  If you drank every time someone said sir in the pilot you'd be in an a coma by 30 minutes in.

 

 Stewart was awesome as Picard out of the gate.  He was most true in the pilot to what the character would be over the course of the series.  Although, he was 100% stick-up-his-ass Picard and didn't loosen up for a few episodes.  Sirtis' Troi, God bless her, was just bad.  I mean truly awful.   Dressing her up as an intergalactic cheerleader didn't help, but she was a 180 degrees from where she'd end up.   Sirtis improved dramatically over the years.  Most of the other characters were fairly close to how they'd ultimately be played, except Data was more childlike wonder and less subdued that he would come to be.  Beverly was also kinda bitchy in general (as even Wes pointed out).  

[The Crazed Spruce]

I'm with you.  Sure, there are a few decent episodes in the first two seasons, and I'm seriously considering submitting "The Measure Of A Man" for the EHG Canon, but by and large, the show doesn't start getting good 'til the third season.

[zxy556575]

And speaking of the first season, BBCAmerica has finally started airing the first two seasons.  I hadn't seen them in years and OMG...I knew those seasons were--saying uneven is being kind--but I had forgotten just how bad it was.  The stilted dialogue, the overdramatic acting, the cheesy production values.  Some of them are bearable but a lot of these episodes are just painful to watch.

 

I've been watching a few of these as well and dislike Pulaski so much that it spoils the entire episode for me. Probably the same reaction others have to Wesley, although he was one of my personal favorites. ;)

[Maverick]

 I never hated Wesley to the extent of most fans, except in the very early episodes.  Any scene he's in in EAF blows; he's easily the most annoying drunk person during The Naked Now; he's not overly bad in Where No One Has Gone Before, but having the Traveler beat us over the head how special he is is vomit inducing; and the less said about Justice the better.

 

 Pulaski suffered from the writers trying to make her McCoy 2.0 and because the were apparently intent on the ship's CMO having some beyond standard professional relationship with Picard.  With Crusher it was unresolved sexual tension and with Pulaski they seemed to be trying some kind of Moonlighting vibe.  I think she was also hampered by the way they wrote her relationship with Data.  Back to the McCoy thing, I think they were trying to make the good 'ole human doesn't like the emotionless alien (android) thing work.  But instead of coming off like she was she was opposed to artificial humans, she just came off as bitchy.  I mean really, when you you refuse to say someone's name right after they've politely corrected you is a straight up petty, bitch move.

[mattie0808]

I've been watching a few of these as well and dislike Pulaski so much that it spoils the entire episode for me.

 

 

But instead of coming off like she was she was opposed to artificial humans, she just came off as bitchy.  I mean really, when you you refuse to say someone's name right after they've politely corrected you is a straight up petty, bitch move.

I never liked Pulaski, especially compared to Crusher, but BOY DID I HATE HER AFTER THAT. Lol. I'm not unbiased here, my real name is confusing to spell and pronounce, and I have never been able to stand people who act like: 1) "Well, it can't really be spelled/pronounced that way!" or 2) go right to "But don't you have a nickname?" or say, 3) "Can I just call you *insert something-that-sounds-idiotic-to-me here*?" I know the name is tough, and I don't have any issues with people who stumble with it while trying to learn or remember it, but the people who just dismiss it drive me crazy, and always have.

 

Cut to Data after Pulaski's epic, bitchy line, "What's the difference (in how I pronounce 'Data')?"

 

"One is my name. The other is not."

 

Amen, Data, AMEN.

 

Lol...I should stop. But how Pulaski treated Data always meant I had no time for her at all. Bringing back Crusher was an A+ move by the show. 

Edited December 25, 2014 by mattie0808

[rereader2]

Me, I thought that Pulaski was a much more believable doctor than Crusher, and I would have been just as pleased not to have to deal with Crusher's blowing hot and cold on Picard for all those seasons. Once Pulaski got to admire Data, I liked her quite well.

Edited December 25, 2014 by rereader2

[Maverick]

 I saw "Q Who?" the other day.  This was an excellent episode, not just for the second season but for the entire show's run.   This was the Borg at their best:  powerful, focused, relentless.  No rogue individuals, no Borg Queen flirting with Picard or chasing Voyager like the Coyote after the Road Runner, no magic transwarp conduits.  Just a passionless, unstoppable force that can't be reasoned with.  Even the look of the Borg are more frightening here.  I always felt adding the holograms, lasers, blinking lights and other assorted bits cheapened them and made them more cartoony.  I get that the Borg as presented here are difficult to bring back on a recurring basis, but I would rather have seen less of the Borg and the Federation forced to deal with them in in this incarnation instead of constantly altering them, to the point where people had heard of them before this episode.  That really destroys the crux of this episode:  there are things the Federation isn't prepared to deal with that can literally come out of nowhere.  That they don't always have time to observe, investigate, research and plan.  That if you're going out into the unknown, sometimes you're going to have the ever lovin' shit kicked out of you.

 

 In addition to the Borg, Q and Guinan are really good in this episode.  While Q has some of his trademark quips, he still comes off as menacing and a genuine threat to the Enterprise.  But at the same time he professes to be trying to help prepare humanity.  It plays out in a way that either Q could legitimately be trying to help them (under the tough love school of thought) or he's enjoying torturing the crew, and is really in it just to make Picard grovel.   Unfortunately after this  episode, he become more comic relief and less menace.  Guinan too has an interesting characterization/backstory that is later dropped.  She's said to come from the region Q has tossed them to, an area that takes decades to reach.  Picard's not only aware of this but seems rather blase about it.  Guinan is revealed to have had dealings with Q, which is in and of itself not a big deal, but she apparently not only has had dealings with the more of the Continuum but is someone who can provoke a reaction, if not outright fear, in Q.  While the fact Guinan has a history with both Q and the Borg are revisited, they never come off quite as interesting as this episode hinted at.  

[Chaos Theory]

I just watched "Where No One Has Gone Before" the Episode where Wesley is made an acting Ensign. My one comment is dude Wil Whedon looked young.

[SVNBob]

Mod @radishcake shared this info with me to pass on to everyone here. Mark from Mark Watches is doing a watch of Star Trek. Currently he is on TOS and will also be watching the movies and eventually TNG. Based on his current schedule it appears that TNG will start around February, 2015. Mark your calendars!

To be specific, his first post about TNG went up earlier today, Feb 13th.  It's only about the first half of Farpoint, because he's watching it (well, did watch.  He watches and writes at least a week in advance of his posting schedule, so he's probably at Code of Honor by now.) as 2 separate episodes.

[AndySmith]

 

but I think bringing her back as Sela was almost universally panned.

 

I don't think it was universally panned. I know many, myself included, who loved that plot twist.

 

I'll admit season 7 has it's faults, but for the most part, I still love it. Seasons 3 to 7 are some of the best TV ever for me, and I have pretty diverse taste in TV.

 

I liked Beverly more than Pulaski, but I never hated Pulaski.

[AndySmith]

Growing up in the Middle East, we didn't have as many TV channels or series like we do now. Viewing options were limited. But, my dad was a fan of TOS. I did watch the 3rd movie with the original cast, and while I thought it was ok, I didn't love it. A friend also sent my dad some episodes from the first TNG season, and I wasn't too impressed.

 

A few years later, we were visiting relatives in the US when Iraq invaded Kuwait, so we were stuck in the US. Needless to say, I watched lots of TV. I got to check out many episodes of TOS but wasn't too impressed by it. But...UPN was repeating 3rd season episodes of TNG, and I was getting more and more into it with each episode. Finally, I saw The Best of Both Worlds Part 1 without knowing it was part 1...and was hooked throughout the episode. I kept wondering "how are they going to resolve this? How are the good guys going to win? There's only 15 minutes left! 10 minutes! 5 minutes! Then...'To Be Continued...'"

 

Needless to say, I was hooked from that point.

 

And my love for TNG did allow me to appreciate TOS more, even though I still consider TNG to be a better show (and one of my top favorite shows ever).

[Chaos Theory]

I was watching this again on Netflix and God I forgot how much I loved it. I remembered in theory. This show was when I became a fan of Patrick Stewart but my God how well the show stands up in my heart.

My favorite episodes are still my favorite episodes. I remember loving Who Watches The Watchers and I still think the episode is fantastic for an early episode. The two part Best of Both Worlds is still chilling.

Characters I didn't paricularly care for don't bother me as much now like Wesley Crusher and Wil Riker mainly because their actors grew on me over the years. Wil Wheaton is the best and got a bum rap as a kid but so is life.

TNG was always my favorite of the Treks because Patrick Stewart was my secret husband. My god did I have a crush on that man. The show is hardly perfect but what I love about it still stands today like it did when it aired and what I disliked seems to have evaporated with time.

I am still only I think half way through the series I just finished Best of Both Worlds and am on s trek marathon. I actually started with TOS, went through the movies and now I am on TNG. I love Netflix.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

And Chaos Theory's Trek Marathon Continues....

Season 4 & 5

After the Best of Both Worlds Season 4 was actually kinda boring. I did however like one thing in particular which I meant to bring up earlier: The fact that although Tasha Yar died like 10 episodes into the series she was never forgotten. Her name was occasionally dropped especially by Data as someone who mattered and of course there was the alt reality episode and then there was the Season 4 Legacy which was Tasha Yar has a sister. I am not sure why I didn't really care for Data's story arcs during this marathon but I did like this episode. Most of the other episodes were kinda blah though. There were a few episodes I enjoyed though. First Contact, The Drumhead, and of course the Host. Now both First Contact and The Host suffer from bad ending syndrome. I hated the ending of the Host and wish the show had been braver and allowed Beverly Crusher to have a relationship with the female trill but then again times were different then but still. It is Star Trek the same Star Trek that had an interracial kiss and a Russian character during the height of the Cold War so I stand by my disappointment. The Host goes both as a great episode and one that I hate. As for First Contact I actually wished the scientist who wanted to stay had become a crewmember instead of Season 5 Engsign Ro who I never cared for. Although now that I think about it I really enjoyed Suddenly Human and Remember me so that is 8 episodes on season 4 that I liked so that isn't really so bad.

Season 5: I actually liked season 5 better then season 4. More eps that I liked. Starting with Disaster which put characters in odd pairings like shows are prone to do. Most notably Picard with a bunch of kids and Troi in Command. I thought the episode was well done and the first in a string of good episode. Yes I include the Game which was a Wesley Crusher episode. It was good Wesley Crusher episode. And then the Spock episodes Unification 1 & 2. (OH I never mentioned in my 1st post how much I enjoyed Season 1 Sarek. I really did. The scene where Picard is basically doing a silique about how much Sarek cared for both his wives and his son still blows my mind.) A couple of ok episodes and then Hero Worship has Data takes a troubled human boy under his wing and one of my favorite episodes of the season Violations where Troi, Crusher, and Riker get mind raped. (I know I am sick but it was a good episode) The Masterpiece Society, The Outcast (another great episode with bad ending syndrome) and finally one of my favorite episodes ever I, Borg. (This may not be the best written episode but it is one of my favorites due to the confrontations that Hugh had with both Guinan and Captain Picard. They are classic moments of the series.) Oh yeah and you can't forget the Inner Light where Picard gets a normal life on an Alien Planet. I loved that episode both beautiful and sad.

Well that is my Season 4 & 5 review. Stay tuned for my final 2 seasons review.

<----edited for clarity.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[John Potts]

I hadn't heard that Sela was "almost universally panned" - I thought her an interesting character whose backstory could have been further explored. Obviously TPTB liked at least the idea of the character as a similar backstory was given to both Seska on Voyager and the villain on ST Nemesis (admittedly, not the most encouraging reference!), but as ever, they don't really develop the idea.

 

I always liked Ensign Ro (the character, not the episode) because for all Starfleet's "Personal Freedom" agenda, it seems they frown at (or worse) anyone who doesn't drink the Federation Kool Aid (likewise with Wesley's choice to go off with the Traveller - personally I thought that a terrible idea, but I would also support anyone's right to smoke (in private), or freedom boils down to "You're free to do exactly what we think you should do!"). It did at times seem like Starfleet was more interested in the rights of people beyond its borders than its own citizens (...and I'm sure you can make a real world political point here, but I won't!).

[Chaos Theory]

Season 6 & 7

 

I never understood why the show cut off Picard and Crusher during final two seasons.  To me these two had a better relationship then Riker and Troi but I guess Riker and trio were the Shows OTP and they didn't want a 2nd gumming up the works so enter Attached.  Attached was a good episode with a horrid ending which basically brought an end to any hope of a pairing between Picard and Crusher which was sad.    I also kinda liked the idea of Troi and Worf as a couple and if the show had continued would have loved to see that relationship instead of Riker and Troi but hey I am probably in the minority on that one.  

 

There were plenty of good episodes during the final two seasons but I can see why the show ended.  It what kind of time.  Some of my favorite episodes include Relics (Hi Scotty!),   Schisms,  Chain of Command Part 1 & 2 (Picard gets torchered) ,  Face of the Enemy,  Birthright 1 & 2,  Attached ,  Parallels, Sub Rosa,  Eye of The Beholder,  Bloodlines,  All Good Things.

 

I did enjoy the movies but only Generations streams on Netflix.  So here ends my semi decent review of TNG.  

 

 

<----Edited because I wanted to include by top ten episodes of the series (in no order)  * I include 2 part episodes as a single unit

 

1.  Best of Both Worlds (1 & 2)

2.  Who Watches The Watchers 

3.  The Drumhead

4.  I Borg

5.  Q-Who?

6.  Sarek

7.  Yesterday's Enterprise

8.  Parellels

9.  Unification 1 & 2

10  Violations

 

There are a bunch of episodes I almost put on my 10 ten list like Inner Light,  The Most Toys,  The Host, and Attached but ultimately there were things about them  I did not like.  Inner Light was probably the one I had the hardest time keeping off the list being  almost a pure Patrick Stewart episode.  The Most Toys was brilliant but for whatever reason Data episodes were never my favorite,  Both the Host and Attached suffered from Beverly Crusher cannot have a happy ending syndrome.  So they were ultimately failed episodes in my mind.   

Edited March 22, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Miss Dee]

You know, I never minded Crusher's inability to get beyond the physical reality of her lover in The Host. While I get that a lot of people can be elastic about the sex of the person they love, many others cannot - they like the sex they like, and that's that.

Plus Beverly had just gotten beyond the change of body once. I'm not sure humans can evolve enough by the 22nd century that one's lover can wear different faces and shapes all the time and one wouldn't care. Although it might be an intriguing series-long arc to consider for a coupled character in the next series...whenever it comes.

[AndySmith]

Heck, Worf didn't hook up with Dax 2.0 on Deep Space Nine, even though Dax stayed the same gender. Granted, he's a Klingon, but still.

 

Those are all good choices for a top 10 list.

[Maverick]

 I would have been ok with the notion that Crusher wasn't ok with her lover switching bodies (because really, who wouldn't be) or even that she wasn't ok with it because she wasn't sexually attracted to women....except for the fact she was totally ok having sexy times with her lover when he was inhabiting the body of her friend, co-worker, superior officer and friend's ex.  Presumably she has no interest in Riker whatsoever (none was ever even hinted at) yet she got past that and saw the guy she loved not Riker.  If her love for him was so great she could do that, I would think she could for a woman (especially for an evolved, 24th century Federation citizen).  If the real problem was changing bodies period, then there was no reason for it to be a woman.  Just have it be another man.   I don't think comes off a horrible person the way they wrote it, but it's not her shining moment either.  Still, it's better than screwing a ghost that lives in a candle.

[MerelyAFan]

This might be me viewing the show through DS9 colored glasses of sorts, but its interesting to see how the timing of Roddenberry's waning influence and the disaster in Best of Both Worlds creates a subtle effect on the show post season 3. The 24th century arrogance is muted down, Starfleet/Federation officers are depicted as more flawed (the Wounded, the Drumhead), and pragmatism starts creeping in around the idealized Trek future. 

A plot to essentially commit genocide against the Federation's biggest enemy in I Borg, a plan that would have been excoriated by the righteous crew of season 1, is not only discussed but initially accepted. The key captain in defeating the Cardassians in Chain of Command is not the idealistic Picard, its the hardass military man Jellicho. Even the nice wunderkid Wesley is brought down hard by the cold reality of his flawed decision at the heart of Starfleet Academy. Its not overt given it was still a largely optimistic, only semi-serialized early 90s show, but in a lot of ways Wolf 359 is when utopia cracks. 

[Maverick]

 Flawed Starfleet officers exist in the Roddenberry era too (TOS:  Bread and Circuses, A Private Little War, Movies:  ST VI, TNG Season 1: Too Short a Season).  They're a common trope for the moral majority of Starfleet to point how out of step they are.  I don't find Picard's decision to consider using Hugh to destroy the Borg that different than Kirk proclaiming to let the Klingons die in ST Vi.   I think having Picard change his mind and not take a chance to destroy the Federation's greatest enemy (and his as well) was totally a Roddenbery/'evolved human' move.  

[MerelyAFan]

VI is a tricky example to compare to anyway given how much Roddenberry allegedly hated how militaristic and prejudiced various officers in the Undiscovered Country were and likely would have fought more against it had he not passed away soon after seeing the rough cut. Even still, one brief emotional outburst by an frustrated Kirk is some ways away from the intricate plan for destroying all Borg which the Enterprise crew gets close to executing. Picard and company deciding not to do it is certainly an indication of optimism (though even the captain wonders to Riker in Descent, Part One if letting the invasive program would have been the correct thing to do if not necessarily the moral one); I just think if a similar story had occurred in the first season, I suspect it would have been suggested by an overtly uncaring strawman jerk who would have existed for the rest of the crew to speechify against. 

As far as Starfleet officers, something like the Wounded goes deeper than the insane admiral/captain and paints the ultimately failed Captain Maxwell quite sympathetically with his suspicious proven correct if not his methods. Admiral Satie in the Drumhead is certainly turns into a dubious figure, but her way of thinking and rampant inquires are so initially persuasive that even Worf falls under her spell. Picard's words of warning at the end are that such paranoid moods are the eternal enemy to be struggled with and however far they've come, they can so easily fall into witch hunts of all types. 

The danger of Starfleet coming undone in season one had an enemy without via the bug creatures inside officers; TNG after season three had the enemy within via the good intentions and failings of the people themselves. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by MerelyAFan

[Miss Dee]

I like how this works in-universe too. Pre-TBOBW, you can view the overly moralistic Star fleet as the kind of arrogance Q warned them about in the episode where they introduce The Borg. They had simply gotten to the point where they were so successful, everything they thought and believed in had to be right by default. You see this attitude in our world all the time.

However, the encounter with the Borg and then especially the war with them ended that arrogance and what people felt was right and wrong fractured. Then you get the later conflict, a little in Season 3 but certainly Season 4 and onward.

[Snarklepuss]

You know, I never minded Crusher's inability to get beyond the physical reality of her lover in The Host. While I get that a lot of people can be elastic about the sex of the person they love, many others cannot - they like the sex they like, and that's that.

 

Yeah, I couldn't do it.  I'm dead straight.  I was also not disappointed that they didn't have her get beyond it.  Sure, it was a different time but human nature doesn't change that much.  People find what they find sexually attractive and might be repulsed by anything else.  It's not a matter of being more enlightened as it's something you just either like or don't like.  There's no being more enlightened about it.

[Ubiquitous]

Quite frankly, the plot of The Host screamed "sweeps week!" to me.
 

I had mixed feelings about Picard's aborted plan to kill the Borg but found it dubious that an Eischer drawing would be it.

[questionfear]

I've been watching random samplings of TNG eps on Netflix lately. It's been fun, and I realized several key things:

 

-As a kid, I loved DS9, but as an adult who just wants to dip in and out of seasons, TNG is easier to skip around.

-Dr Crusher is still hot. I hated hated HATED Dr Pulaski, and it's with the benefit of hindsight that I realized it's because I had a huge crush on Dr Crusher. 

-The entire cast deserved emmy awards for managing half the dialog without laughing uncontrollably or stuttering through it...I watched one episode where I swear half the dialog was just a string of sci-fi sounding words. For some reason DS9 never seemed as jargon-y to me. 

-The only thing more disturbing than how Will Riker sat down in a chair was Will Riker in those weird silk PJs. Once I randomly jumped between two eps in different seasons and BOTH featured Riker in PJs. Just wrong. 

[Maverick]

 

-The entire cast deserved emmy awards for managing half the dialog without laughing uncontrollably or stuttering through it...I watched one episode where I swear half the dialog was just a string of sci-fi sounding words. For some reason DS9 never seemed as jargon-y to me. 

 

 

 Was it "Realm of Fear, where Barclay--a transporterphobe--thinks he sees something in the transporter beam?  I swear half that script had to read [tech], which was their shorthand to fill in technobabble.

[questionfear]

 Was it "Realm of Fear, where Barclay--a transporterphobe--thinks he sees something in the transporter beam?  I swear half that script had to read [tech], which was their shorthand to fill in technobabble.

Lol no, but that's on my list for this weekend.

 

I think it was "The Game" where Wesley Crusher and Ashley Judd have to save the Enterprise after Riker brainwashes everyone with a dumb game someone gave him on shore leave. It's...not a great episode, though it does lead to a very amusing sequence where apparently engineering Ensigns and Starfleet Cadets are also neurologists. 

[Maverick]

Oh wow. If you thin The Game has a lot of technobabble you're in for a real treat with Realm of Fear.

I didn't mind Riker in his silk jammies but that robe/sweater/WTF ever it was a they had him wearing on Risa was just wrong

[wanderingstar]

I always really liked the S6 episode Timescape, if for nothing else that scene where Geordi, Picard, Data and Troi are commiserating over a their experiences at conference they'd all attended. It was such a nice quotidian scene that gave you a sense of what they did when not battling the Borg or refereeing diplomatic negotiations.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[Maverick]

Love that episode. I agree the cold open is particularly well done. I love Picard's impression of the lecturer. And the hook with everyone frozen but Troy set the tone perfectly for the rest of the episode.

[questionfear]

Agreed, that's one of my favorite episodes because it really did make them seem like friends and colleagues.

[blueray]

Heck, Worf didn't hook up with Dax 2.0 on Deep Space Nine, even though Dax stayed the same gender. Granted, he's a Klingon, but still.

 

Those are all good choices for a top 10 list.

Do you meant Ezri? He did actually have a one night stand with her. But she isn't his wife, while she carries the memories of Dax, she still is a different person. They both agree never to mention that to anyone. Especially since that would have gotten Dax banned from ever being joined again, since they aren't allowed to have romantic relationships with past hosts partners.

Edited June 29, 2015 by blueray

[AndySmith]

I meant beyond that...since we were talking about people's inability to accept their old Trill lover being in a new body.