Snowfall - General Discussion

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I've been processing the huge plot developments in this ep and ruminating as to how true to the characters, or organic, they were.  The one I have the most difficulty with is how badly Buckley screwed up the hit.  It's not that the hit was an oddity - it clearly was within the norms of the show.  It's that he was so brazen.  

We had been introduced to a very, very, savvy dirty cop.  This one decided to do an open hit "in uniform" and with guaranteed and multiple witnesses.  He also risked getting shot himself, as happened to his partner.  No chance he would have risked Kane's survival by not firing a head shot as he reached him.  He had already gone way past any protocol concerns already. 

The way he handled the interrogation in the office was over the top, as well.  Playing the race and union cards made a lot of sense to me.  But, his panicked and cocky approach was silly and stoopid.  He had to know the blood test was coming.  He would have had a much better response prepared.

A couple of big Avi scenes!  Of cooooouuuurse he loved Parissa.  Her reciprocal regard was very real, imo.  He also loved teasing Teddy about her and her use of "Theodore."  Fun stuff.  The break-in/shooting scene was pretty good, too.  

One of the tropes in TV that drives me to distraction is how a given gun holder controls another, or others, well within the reach of the "detainees."  Now, add in talk, talk, talk.  Ugh.  This time, we got an Avi who was well experienced and who was not messing around.  He did get too close to the perps, but the dead Soviet agent was a great example of a smart response to an existential threat.  I can live with Avi's miscalculation as to getting too close.  He was just beyond a first reach of those two interlopers, and in the process of shooting one of them, the other had just enough time to strike.  

The fight seemed off as either one of them would have known how to hit the other with disabling and fatal blows.  I think it was about portraying Avi as a warrior that he lasted as long as he did.  In any event, another take no prisoners confrontation in a series filled with them.  Props to TPTB.

Franklin's expressed desire to walk away would be a genius move.  I just don't believe him.  I also know there is no way he can do so cleanly.  I got the feeling that the farewell handshake was empty.  Especially now with Teddy being among the hunted, Franklin can not be free to pile on.  I suspect that if Teddy is to survive the push to eliminate him from this project, he will need Saint's assistance.  

Veronique's grifter upbringing brings in a nice element.  Has she simply found an "interesting" man (like Parissa has :)) or is she working him?  Is she acting solo, or is it backed by heavy hitters?  Good job setting this up.

Louie, Louie, Louie...what a monster!  Great TV character.  Jerome, like Leon, has had a turnaround that is not realistic, imo.  Wanting out of the rat race is one thing.  Having a "community conscience?"  Nuh uh.  Run, Wanda. Run.

  

[Msample]

We didn’t see Avi actually die so I am hoping he somehow survived. 

Buckley is hot mess, I can’t believe Louie would bring him on, unless she’s just doing it to put him at ease so she can get rid of him later . 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

On re-watch, it came to me that Franklin had been putting out weakness vibes.  His wanting to get out and his utter devotion to keeping his "family" safe created natural openings for enemies.  I can see where Louie sensed it and used it as part of her calculus to act on Kane when she did.

The book Leon flashed at Franklin as he was leaving the Saint crib was "The Wretched Earth," which is an argument against "colonialism, and post-colonialism."   I'd be interested to know where he manages in his mind to keep his money when he did more to ruin lives of his people than any theoretical and academic takes as to the world writ large.  A regular Nelson Mandela, that one.

The preview re-emphasized the "button" moment when Louie told Buckley to kill Kane.  Big problem.  Louie's method had no need of a conspiracy, beyond Perez, the crooked cop he paid for the ridiculous hit.  That approach would have been available to him most anytime and most anyplace.  Kane was not exactly hiding.  If Buckley was willing to make a full frontal assault, there would have been any number of opportunities, with much less collateral damage which was sure to make things tougher for him with IAD.  Really bad plotting by TPTB.

The way the fight with Avi was staged, Avi had a clear and easy head shot (4 inches away) to the 2nd perp.  For whatever reasons, he did not pull the trigger.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

After all that, Buckley still didn't manage to kill Kane. Bad cop, no donut. 😉

High af Buckley openly stealing from a drug dealer. That won't end well. Either he's going to O.D. or get capped.

Don't do it Wanda! Stay on your positive trajectory. Leon is not it.

Franklin looked fully heartbroken when Louie and Jerome told him they were buying product directly from Teddy. Great acting moment.

Considering the state he's in, why would Louie double-down on using Buckley? Was she just blowing smoke up his butt to diffuse the situation? He's become a huge liability for her. Maybe she should arrange for him to get a bad dose of coke.

If the Cuban guy is DEA why is his partner Russian? He must be KGB.

Whipped cream on apple pie. Bleh. Vanilla ice cream or nothing.

I don't know why Teddy was surprised at Franklin's reaction. He undermined Franklin in the worst way. And that doesn't even include his taking steps to steal Franklin's money. Seems to me he's willfully shutting Franklin down.

[Sarah 103]

On 4/14/2022 at 12:10 PM, Msample said:

We didn’t see Avi actually die so I am hoping he somehow survived. 

In the most recent episode, I realized Avi would be the character whose death I would be most upset/dissapointed by. I'm not sure exactly when he became the one of the characters I am most excited to see onscreen, but somehow he has become one of my favorite characters in this series. 

[Raja]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:40 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

If the Cuban guy is DEA why is his partner Russian? He must be KGB.

Whipped cream on apple pie. Bleh. Vanilla ice cream or nothing.

I don't know why Teddy was surprised at Franklin's reaction. He undermined Franklin in the worst way. And that doesn't even include his taking steps to steal Franklin's money. Seems to me he's willfully shutting Franklin down.

I still don't know what to make of this. Did the KGB contract it out like Teddy is now a CIA contractor, and the DEA Agent hired. or just worked with them to get Oso for his partner?

The show started just before the 1984 Olympics and Leon was talking about the Crack laws sure to pass after the elections, has all of this, Franklin in jail, recovering from getting shot etc happen in 2 years?

Edited April 21, 2022 by Raja

[Lonesome Rhodes]

RIP, Avi.  He at least minimized his physical pain (not tortured) on his way to his maker.  He stayed true to his ways till the end - nobody else matters, his only loyalty was to himself.

Kane was not smart enough to figure out it was Louie?  Dude is pretty savvy.

Cissy needs to go in the worst TV mothers evah Hall of Fame.  

It sure seems that V was on the up and up with Franklin.  Is that allowed on a show like this - to have intriguing characters be just who they say they are?

I've been watching various happy moments in the past few eps wondering if a given scene was going to be the last genuine ones a character would enjoy.  Ironically, it appears that Wanda is the only one who may yet have one.

I am most sad for Oso and his family.  I am entirely unclear as to how he got nailed, but it is certainly within reason that he did.  

Poor Parissa.

[eejm]

Avi was probably the most consistently written character on the show and certainly one of the most interesting.  I’ll miss him.  
 

I think Kane probably suspected Louie ordered the hit, but Franklin confirmed it.  I’m sure Kane thought Franklin would never rat out his own aunt, so I think he knows this is the truth.  
 

Not a bad season finale overall.  Teddy and Oso have big problems.  Franklin, Cissy, and Jerome have bigger problems.  Louie’s anger and greed mean her problems are probably the biggest of all.  Next season - which I’m guessing will be the last - should be a real firecracker.

[chick binewski]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

RIP, Avi.  He at least minimized his physical pain (not tortured) on his way to his maker.  He stayed true to his ways till the end - nobody else matters, his only loyalty was to himself.

Kane was not smart enough to figure out it was Louie?  Dude is pretty savvy.

Cissy needs to go in the worst TV mothers evah Hall of Fame.  

It sure seems that V was on the up and up with Franklin.  Is that allowed on a show like this - to have intriguing characters be just who they say they are?

I've been watching various happy moments in the past few eps wondering if a given scene was going to be the last genuine ones a character would enjoy.  Ironically, it appears that Wanda is the only one who may yet have one.

I am most sad for Oso and his family.  I am entirely unclear as to how he got nailed, but it is certainly within reason that he did.  

Poor Parissa.

I will def miss Avi. And I am still standing on my V is Shady hill. Grifting with your mom in bad motels does not give you the required experience to fleece the CIA! Also, I want to know who she called...

I've always liked the Oso character and wished they gave him more to do. I think DEA Tony (who was recording in the truck during the LSD wedding) got the ok to bug Oso now that Teddy is on the outs with the CIA (Teddy was Oso's protection and got him out of jail in S3 or 4). Tony wants retribution for Lorena's murder so he may go after Oso the hardest.

I am still completely unclear as to whether the DEA and the KGB know what either party is doing.

1 hour ago, eejm said:

Avi was probably the most consistently written character on the show and certainly one of the most interesting.  I’ll miss him.  
 

I think Kane probably suspected Louie ordered the hit, but Franklin confirmed it.  I’m sure Kane thought Franklin would never rat out his own aunt, so I think he knows this is the truth.  
 

Not a bad season finale overall.  Teddy and Oso have big problems.  Franklin, Cissy, and Jerome have bigger problems.  Louie’s anger and greed mean her problems are probably the biggest of all.  Next season - which I’m guessing will be the last - should be a real firecracker.

Next season will be the last - they announced a few weeks ago. I'm still having trouble with Louie's turn. I do feel Franklin has shaped those close to him into what they are now, but Louie's moves feel more stupid than bold. However, she did manage to train Bad Lieutenant pretty quick.

Edited April 21, 2022 by chick binewski

[nasir jones]

Good season finale, although the cliffhanger with Franklin and Louie was annoying.

Louie’s mindset seemed to be explained in that great scene at the wedding with her and Jerome talking over each other, yet finishing each other’s sentences. Louie has been used and abused for so long that she just wants complete control of her life, body, and decisions. If it doesn’t work out, so be it. At least she got to make the choices. Her mistake was not letting Buck kill Franklin.

I actually like unhinged Franklin. He’s just being his true self without the pretense of not being a murderous gangster. I wouldn’t trust Veronique as far as I could throw her.

Damn… I’m not sure how Oso gets out of that jam.

RIP Avi.

[Msample]

Don’t any of these people know about offshore banks to hide their money??

[Raja]

2 hours ago, Msample said:

Don’t any of these people know about offshore banks to hide their money??

In earlier season's Avi advised Franklin who headed down to Panama to start setting the off shore out of reach of the US government accounts up. Somehow Teddy had all of Franklin's offshore codes that is how he cleaned him out and stole the $73 million. It was just the working unwashed cash on hand  that Franklin stole from Unc and Auntie Louie and Oso had in his bug out locker that the DEA was sitting on.

[UrbanShocker]

This season has had a killer soundtrack and the last two songs of this season are a good example.  Near the end, Franklin resorts to his old early-80s persona, as the guy scheming and "seizing" Jerome and Louie's assets (including the strippers), killing whoever gets in his way to get money, partnering with Kane's crew and ratting out Louie to Kane.  All while strutting through the hospital like a badass to "In the Air Tonight", a song from the early 80s which was made famous by a different 80's drug-running show (Miami Vice).

And then over the end credits plays NWA's "Straight Outta Compton" and those hard gangbanging lyrics from Ice Cube.  That song came out in 1988, which is two years after the events of this season took place, so that seems to be a clue as to how far in the future next season (the last season) will be.  And also the harder edge Franklin may need to have next season, especially with the LAPD.

[Chatty Cake]

The finale was good. Agree that the music has been good this season. I guess the only ones I have hope for are Leon and Wanda.

[cyberfruit]

got my fingers crossed for Leon and Wanda, but who knows. leon's got blood on his hands and he's also the reason for the slow destruction of his neighborhood. clearly, he's been tired and he's sad and weary of his own second in command who's selfish and reckless. i'm not saying that he's not allowed to have redemption -- i've been rooting for him and his cooler head after the death of skully's daughter -- but it wouldn't surprise me if he's not allowed to have one. i think wanda will make out alright.

i'm interested in seeing louie work with teddy now that the relationship has been severed from franklin, on both ends. and i'm especially interested to see how they'll work together after franklin pulled a gun on her. louie is just as ruthless as franklin but, in a way, i think that's planted a seed in her mind against teddy. louie is good at forecasting and seems to be good at reading people (manboy, skully, kane). i'd like to see if she thinks she can get both jerome and herself out of this, alive. i think there will be major loss and i'm sure i'm not alone here.

as for franklin... i'm sorry, but franklin blaming this new war on louie was the dumbest thing that came out of his mouth in a long time. last week when he told teddy he was done, i laughed. like lmao you really think you're done? you legit now? the fact is that the money was never his; it was the government's. the money always belonged to the government. even if louie didn't exist and franklin had no one jockeying for leadership, this was his natural end. good luck to him next season. 

[cyberfruit]

On 4/21/2022 at 1:43 PM, chick binewski said:

Next season will be the last - they announced a few weeks ago. I'm still having trouble with Louie's turn. I do feel Franklin has shaped those close to him into what they are now, but Louie's moves feel more stupid than bold. However, she did manage to train Bad Lieutenant pretty quick.

i think this is because louie's character was bumped up to replace lucia. the writers never really managed to figure out what to do with oso once lucia disappeared, but shoehorning louie into the role was a much easier fix. 

[chick binewski]

40 minutes ago, cyberfruit said:

i think this is because louie's character was bumped up to replace lucia. the writers never really managed to figure out what to do with oso once lucia disappeared, but shoehorning louie into the role was a much easier fix. 

I like Emily Rios and I think she and Sergio had some quiet chemistry - I appreciate that it seemed like show was holding a place for her but yeah, I guess it it did sink a lot of Oso's story.

That being said as much as I think they've turned Louie a little too far this season Angela Lewis is terrific. 

[Sarah 103]

I now need an Avi prequel series that goes all the way back to the 1940s, because if his parents moved to Palestine in the early 1900s, I am now certain Avi got his start working for one group or another during the time when Israel was trying to be a country. If anyone has seen or read Exodus I'm picturing Avi working with Ari Ben-Canaan or Dov Landau. 

Also, it was brilliant to use "In the Air Tonight." The song, is so 80s in sound and instantly makes so many people think of Miami Vice. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Guess Veronique is not faking her pregnancy. Not unless she ate three large pizzas before she climbed naked up on Franklin. Oh well, so much for that theory. 🙄

$73 million dollars!

Sure, like the CIA is going to refund money from an illegal operation which they don't officially acknowledge. Good luck with that, Saint. Meanwhile, Teddy stole Franklin's money so he could buy his CIA job back? What is wrong with him?

So that guy holding Avi is a Cuban Russian. How convenient. Ruben probably targeted Cissy in Cuba because he knew who she could lead him to in L.A. The Russians were working against the Contras in Nicaragua so Teddy would've been a problem for them.

Veronique is a lousy financial manager. Franklin's real estate empire was a collective house of cards because it relied on the cash flow from his drug business. The set up was perfect if she was deliberately trying to take him down.

Poor Leon. He knows most of his crew will end up either dead or in prison after he leaves town with Wanda. All they can see is $$$.

Wow, the DEA has been on Oso. Wonder if he'll give up Franklin? Or bettet yet, Teddy.

Not if he kills you first, Louie. Franklin 'bout to go HAM on errbody.

Aw, Avi. You knew you couldn't trust Ruben to keep his word. You went out like a boss.

At what point does Franklin realize how much Cissy has hurt him with her obsessive need for revenge on Teddy?

Okay, Cissy knew Ruben was KGB. Bet she's either going end up under the jail or dead.

I thought it was a great season finale. I'm ready for season 6 right now.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Wow, did they ignore basics to create inner-and inter-governmental plots and schemes.  Same for the black cocaine distributors.  One thing that did remain front and center was Cissy's evil, however she came to embrace it.

So now we have the basic CIA operators with whom Teddy rose and served.  There is another USA group who are trying to glom on to the fruits of the original black ops group.  And now we have the KGB identified, who are just trying to stick to the USA however they can.  The beauty of this set up is that TPTB can now go anywhere they want with all this and it can make sense within this panoply.  Ugh.

Nice scene in the diner with Jerome and Franklin.  Too bad the 24 hour deadline for the promised deliverables with the mute was passing and we saw zero actions by Louie and hubby to meet it.  Is Kiefer gonna guest star?

Oso is entirely screwed.  His best bet is to kill Teddy and deliver everything Teddy built to his DEA overseer.  

Now brings V's Mama.  Franklin gonna wish he were dead by the time she is finished with him.  With whom is she primarily aligned?

I have and had zero sympathy for the whacko female bodyguards who were stopped by the crooked cops, and the one who beat to death by Jerome.  This was the way they chose.  They did the very same to that unfortunate fat guy who seemed a little slow, but was essentially decent.

Speaking of  bodyguards...the show has shown us none for Franklin, excepting the aforementioned ladies.  He just drives wherever and walks around with no backing whatsoever.  The rival cabals all know he was significantly weakened by Louie and Jerome's move and they would be looking for advantage.  Yet, he flits about untouched and respected as if he still had a formidable group of thugs behind him.  LOL.

Singleton's original vision of portraying the USA's drug dealing, utilizing/exploiting minorities and their communities, is still being honored.  What I believe he could not have known was how the Deep State writ large and recently exposed - (a version of which he is showing us from the 80's) is incredibly powerful, seemingly unstoppable, and most definitely evil.  I give the man massive props for this.  Intended, or not.

 

 

 

[eejm]

Of course Skully has a hamburger phone.  Of course he does.

[Chatty Cake]

I should have rewatched the previous season or at least the last few episodes before starting  the new season. It take# me a minute to remember some of the characters. 
Good first two episodes. Not looking good the main players. 
Jerome’s reply to Franklin when Franklin told him he made Jerome was powerful.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Chatty Cake

[Witchz]

I am excited for this season as last season was not very good.  The first two shows have given me renewed interest in the show and I am here for it.  I may be in the minority but I love Franklin and want to see him win but am afraid its not going to happen - fingers crossed.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I am very glad that we did  not get a strictly idyllic presentation of life in Ghana.  It seems Leon will have to choose peril there much like he must choose sides if he stay in L.A.

Major, major kudos to TPTB for the unflinching description of the slave trade as it developed.  It is tragic that it continues in parts of the continent to this day.  SIngleton has absolutely depicted a wicked world where there are very few pure folks.  Temptation and connection to evil is something most everyone will face and then make choices.  This show has brilliantly outlined the universality of human nature.

I hope Wanda understands she is forgiven just as much as she forgives others who made horrific choices.  Redemption is always at hand, imo, but not necessarily in the form we would have.  

I still have yet to see any muscle whatsoever behind Franklin as he tries to get back what was his.  I also do not understand why the big boys in politics and property development have blessed his project.  They crushed him before.  Now that he is weaker, they let him build?  Saint has no CIA backing anymore to smooth things that need smoothing in licensing, zoning, and such.

I'm buckled in for the ride.  Gonna be fast and super bumpy.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Huge ep.  I won't believe the drop-dead deadline of "tomorrow" for the various government parties until I see it.  Teddy, for one, was out on the street surveilling.  If he had to take various actions to get through a tremendous upheaval the next day, he would not have time for picture taking.  

Whatever comes down, one thing TPTB can not claim is that Lee was fated to being a narco-gangster.  The lad had every opportunity to walk away, with a loving and committed wife, and a fair amount of cash with which to get established somewhere, eg Ghana,  Lee made some very stoopid choices and now he, and Wanda,  are trapped.

I do not understand why the accountant dude kept those papers.  The money is long gone, as the papers showed.  If it was about legal protection should things come down on him, he could have left the papers with an attorney for safekeeping.  However, I did enjoy Saint losing his mind when it dawned upon him that it was all a fishing expedition and the big one got away.  He is in such a weak position.

At least he now has some actual muscle behind him once again - Kane's crew.  Even then, there was murderous jealousy within that cadre. 

It will be very interesting as we see how close to actual events the series goes.  Personally, I'd make Parisa Queen of the World.  

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Finally got caught up with this season so far:
E1
Teddy stealing Franklin's money led to Louie and Jerome losing all their stash to Franklin, as well as access to their funds. So they can't pay Teddy and they have nothing to sell. He played himself.

Oh Jerome, you done messed up bad. Franklin is not going to let what you did to his enforcer pass. And Louie pretty much set Jerome off by telling him Franklin pulled a gun on her. Is Louie trying to get Jerome killed, or at least injured enough to be sidelined?

Cissy calling Franklin "Saint" was weird. He's her son.

E2
Poor Black Diamond. That probably wasn't the way she expected to be killed.

Jerome is completely losing it.

It is mind-boggling to me that the DEA would be going after a CIA guy, even if he is dirty.

I thought Leon had left the country with Wanda? Lol, he gave Louie and Jerome some origami.

Veronique's mother speaks Chinese, in addition to French, Afrikaans, and Creole. That's interesting. She really is an international criminal.

Franklin's not exactly the picture of mental health either, pulling a gun on someone in a public restaurant in broad daylight.

Slippin into Darkness was perfect for the ending of this episode.

E3
Wanda looks fantastic! So happy and healthy.

So, did Wanda trace her roots back to Ghana because those might not be "her" people except in a relatively broad sense of the word. Africans forced into in the Middle Passage didn't just come from Ghana.

Louie trying to be an equestrian because she thinks that's what rich people are supposed to do.

How did Teddy know about the situation in Costa Rica?

Listen to Franklin, Leon, and get out while you still can. You can't be Switzerland. The whole mess is fundamentally evil and you and Wanda cannot safely live in it anymore.

E4
OMG, spray painting a human being. Recently there have been reports of that being done to an unhoused person so this seemed a bit anachronistic to me unless it was an actual thing in LA back in the day.

It almost seems like Wanda coped better with the horrors of street life when she was high all the time.

Why was Deon so threatened by Einstein wanting to go to college?

Now Teddy suspects Oso. That won't bode well.

How did the Cuban agent know Gustavo would end up in the bar that night? Was he following him?

Geez, Gustavo's already a double agent. Now he's about to be a triple one, with the DEA, the CIA, and the KGB all trying to have him in play.

Todd and the gang who literally couldn't shoot straight. But Franklin escapes again.

Leon's back in with both feet now. Yikes. Deon's revenge will be brutal for sure.

Quote

Saint losing his mind when it dawned upon him that it was all a fishing expedition and the big one got away.

Was it really though? I got the impression Veronique and her mother knew more than what they told Franklin.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

One of the worst-constructed eps of the series.  The build-up was massive in recent eps.  We're still operating on a "24" timeline.  Ugh.  This week we get regretful Jerome?  We also get Teddy, somehow by himself, surveilling Senor KGB, and then sussing out he is about to get hit within 24 hours by the dude, whom Teddy somehow knows is a lone wolf.  He then moves everything related to the illegalities (thinking through all that with a clear mind) to a new location.  On his own.  Huh?

I didn't expect Franklin to kill Mr. McDonald.  I thought he was somehow hoping to learn something about Teddy that could help him.  It is very interesting that once again, for all the specialized financial acumen of Cassandra, we got zero evidence of it in action.  She and Veronique worked a heckuva racket to get Jack home, though.  They are definitely excellent confidence ladies.

The very great problem for Franklin is that he now presents a very great existential threat to the overall CIA/Teddy mission.  He would now be a prime, fully legit, and urgent target.  Given how easily he travels around, with little security as he does, he would be an easy kill.

How many eps does Lee have to live?  Will Wanda suffer the same fate, or will she be a bloom of hope in the ashes about to be created?

I really did love the convo Jerome had with Deon.  The delusion!  It was a most welcome breath of fresh air when Deon reacted as he did and called it out.  My sense is that this scene was a pivotal metaphor for the series.  For sure, the area/community suffered massively with the birth and rise of the rock and coke  market.  It is assuredly a victim of this evil.  Yet, as Deon pointed out, it was already a hellish place, filled with wicked and ambitious folks.  There were no hagiographic "good old days" in the last several decades.  

It's gonna be fun for me watching as the DEA guy makes his choices.  I fear the aborted raid means even more peril/danger for Oso.  Guys like that don't usually walk away when they suffer a loss like he just did.  

 

[Dowel Jones]

Franklin acting on angry impulse there was the absolute worst thing he could do.  He has to know that Teddy is capable of anything, and has the resources to get it done.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Geez, if $73M isn't enough for Franklin he deserves to get taken. But I guess that conversation confirmed Veronique isn't trying to steal his stuff. Still not sure about Cassandra though.

Leon. Left with a crackhead, came back with a wife, lol. That diss really got to him apparently.

Poor Wanda, She wants to be loyal to Leon but she knows on some level she probably can't maintain her detachment from that street life much longer.

Gustavo did not like hearing that Teddy had been following him. Teddy might have overplayed his hand. He only knows Gustavo's connection to the KGB. The DEA is still after him, with Gustavo's help.

Bet Louie never thought she'd be tracked by her newfound equestrian interest. At least not by some little no-class gangtas.

That idiot Deon. Leon should've killed him when he had the chance.

It's not believable to me that Teddy's father would just leave with some woman he'd never met before. Cassandra is good at working people but this was too easy IMO.

Hey, it's Hollywood from Queen Sugar.

What was going on with Jerome? Nostalgic for the good old days when he wasn't a drug running killer whose wife is trying to make him a target?

Teddy was actually surprised at finding gay porn in the Cuban guy's room. Guess the KGB didn't have a DADT policy.

Franklin you have majorly fcuked up now. Your life isn't worth $73M. Teddy will likely go after Veronique and her mother now. The people at the home have presumably tied them to Teddy's father's departure. The question is whether they can provide good enough descriptions, or have them on security camera.

[Dowel Jones]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:46 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Bet Louie never thought she'd be tracked by her newfound equestrian interest.

It was the western style saddle that gave her away, heh.  Wrong style for dressage.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Excellent ep.  Lots of real.  

Of course, we had to get some contortion from several characters - especially Franklin who decided to get all soft with Jerome and Louie.  

Brilliant move by Teddy, even if it was not a coldly calculated one.  I'm not sure how much humanity played into his talk with KGB dude.  

The phone call to his ex warning her about Franklin was super tough to watch.  His info at the end about Company agents and others on their way betrayed a piece that has been conveniently minimized - allowing Teddy to pretty much roam free so as to not involve support.  Teddy's operation and tactical moves were known to all the "enemies."  There was nothing to hide from them.  And Teddy and his handler knew it.  So...bring in the Cavalry, loudly or quietly.  Teddy's plan simply had to come off/work given the breakdowns and losses in Central America.  

The standoff between Kane and Jerome was almost laughable.  Then came a most welcome and rare result - no winner.  For seemingly once, neither "duelist" missed from point blank range.  Kudos.

I really like Cassandra.  She is one of the few who never once acted out of anything other than self.  No time for sentiment.  Only survival.  

Will the DEA go after Oso's family for the cash he just got?  Yup.

so now with Kane and his guys gone, is Franklin reduced to Leon and an amalgamation of disjointed hoods?  Quite the vacuum is being created.  Louie does not have much behind her, either.

I vote for Parissa to get control of the $72 million and for everyone else, except Oso, to meet their end.

[Sarah 103]

I've been trying to predict who is going to survive, and at this point I have no idea. The bloodbath is going to itensify, and no one is going to come out a winner. Everyone who survives will have lost almost everything they knew or cared about. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I still can't wrap my head around Veronique not playing Franklin. I simply don't trust her.

If Franklin's crew and family were smart they'd take him out themselves. He's going to get them all killed because of his war with Teddy.

Louie's horse said, "Giddyup ya own self. Bullets flyin? I'm outta here." Shouldn't have been trying to act so bougie, Louie.

Okay, I didn't enjoy watching Kane kick Louie in the chest. I know it was paybacks but ugh.

Look at Franklin having a conscience. For Louie though? If it were up to her he'd be dead already.

That pimp was doing the typical Bond villain move: talking too much. And he had the nerve to call Louie loquacious.

Never heard AIDs called "die slow" before. I thought it had a name by the time of when this show takes place

Jerome sacrificed himself for Louie. Franklin should've left it alone. Oh well, Rome. Black Diamond sends her regards to you in hell.

Over on reddit some of them are so mad at Louie they're calling her Skyler White, lol.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Joimiaroxeu

[Racj82]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Never heard AIDs called "die slow" before. I thought it had a name by the time of when this show takes place

It doesn't matter if it had a name. People come up with their own slang for stuff all the time.

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Look at Franklin having a conscience. For Louie though? If it were up to her he'd be dead already.

It was the sexual assault threat that got to him. There are some fates worse than death.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

It doesn't matter if it had a name. People come up with their own slang for stuff all the time.

Sure but using two syllables to replace an acronym that is pronounced simply as one doesn't make sense to me. That's mostly why it got my attention.

Quote

There are some fates worse than death

Not advocating for sexual assault, especially a gang rape. Odds are they were going to end her life afterward anyway. That would've eliminated a persistent problem for Franklin. Now Louie will likely come after him for, in her mind, getting Jerome killed. I still think he should've left the situation between Kane and her alone. He has enough trouble coming for murdering Teddy's daddy.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Near-total waste of precious final season time.  Bordered on offensive, to boot.

The portrayals of these gangsters seeing themselves as victims was certainly well within the bounds of reason and real.  Yet, watching it while these murderers justified their choices while they mourned (or pretended to mourn) Jerome, was disgusting.  The worst was the preacher at the burial who earnestly spoke of the inherent dangers of that area/community, implicitly justifying the evil Jerome chose to do.  Unc was no innocent.  He placed himself, fully consciously, in the middle of the rampant criminality.  He got what he gave.

We see that KGB dude made his choice.  He stayed.  OK.  Let's see a payoff.

I may be wrong, but that may have been the first time we saw a major Company poobah at the home offices pulling strings like Geppetto.  I would have loved  more of that as things went along over the course of the series.

I will say the conversation between Oso and Franklin really showed how off the rails Franklin has gone.  He recovered, for the moment, and was back to his using his brain and not any brawn in dealing with his foes.  

The conversation he had with Louie at the end was straight delusion.  And boring.  No, Louie, Franklin is not Satan incarnate.  He also, like Jerome, has a decency within him - which saved your sorry existence.

TPTB really missed the mark with this one.  Yes, everything was within reason.  But, with all the checks they have written building  up to the end, it was was a huge mistake which will almost certainly take away from paying off said checks.  It's as if they planned to use a frenetic finale that we can scarcely keep up with in order that we not have moments to consider in real time (first viewing) all the implications, and potential holes/retconning to come.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Jerome only got shot in the chest, right? How much would the mortuary need to do to him to make him presentable for a funeral? I was surprised they said it would take several days.

Teddy needs to put a peephole in the front door of that place where he's hiding before he shoots the wrong person, lol.

"A public execution." What did Teddy's ex mean by that? Teddy didn't seem to be too worried though.

Gustavo is trying to spin too many plates at the same time. There's a circular firing squad forming around him, though it looks like the CIA might be planning to end everyone involved in this mess.

So glad Wendy has stayed clean and is planning to get out of the projects. Hope she succeeds and doesn't get caught in the crossfire with Leon.*

Buckley had the nerve to show up to Jerome's funeral. That crackhead is part of the reason Jerome ended up dead.

If Franklin's the devil then who is Teddy? Maybe Satan has a brother. 😏

Loved the song over the end credits. Don't think I'd ever heard it before. Eddie Kendricks was a great artist, gone too soon. And whoever has been selecting the soundtrack music for this season has been doing absolutely stellar work.

*ETA: apparently

Spoiler

Wendy is going to survive and head to a Snowfall spinoff to be based on the rise of gangsta rap in the 90s.
https://deadline.com/2023/03/snowfall-spinoff-early-development-fx-gail-bean-1235313146/

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I am happily, yet mildly, surprised that Oso survived the day.  It took a fantastic intervention by Ruben, but there it is.  Whether he would choose Saint over McDonald was one of the few legit/organic questions which could easily have gone either way.  That, was a moment.

There was no way TPTB would kill off Franklin in this ep.  So, we got the tried and (not) true Bond villain treatment by Teddy.

Did Veronique for SURE lose the baby, or can they credibly pull back from that development?  She sure put up a brave front when Franklin told her to hightail it to her mom if something went badly with  him.  Hard for me to decide if she really does love him that much, or if she was playing him even then.

Guerrero being presented as some badass narco Fed was not backed up.  If she had any sense at all, she would have instantly understood Oso's truth gambit with the Colombians was brilliant.  I know TPTB needed to give DEA boss reason to go after Oso, but man, that was silly.  

What did Ruben do when Oso left his family?  I thought sure he would do some major harm to them.  Instead, it appears they made a nice beginning of a getaway.  Hmmmm...is Oso gonna have a happy ending?

The proposal scene with Parissa and Teddy was all sorts of weird.  There was a lot of misunderstanding coming from both characters.  This was incongruent, imo, with where the story had been heading.  The past couple of eps in particular made this outcome almost certain.  Yet, these two savvy folks did not understand what the other was getting at in this scene.

So, we have a very messy assassination of several DEA agents related to the Company.  Will we get to see some type of inter-agency dustup?  It would be interesting to see Singleton's version of such.

Why was Louie so reluctant to smash nephew's face in?  Nonsensical, it was.

Not much time left to payoff the various arcs.  I hope they somehow manage to do so.  I have my doubts, though.

 

[chick binewski]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:09 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The proposal scene with Parissa and Teddy was all sorts of weird.  There was a lot of misunderstanding coming from both characters.  This was incongruent, imo, with where the story had been heading.  The past couple of eps in particular made this outcome almost certain.  Yet, these two savvy folks did not understand what the other was getting at in this scene.

I did find the tone of the scene odd but my take on the inclusion of the proposal this week was just to set up Parissa somehow saving Teddy next episode. 

If someone told me during S3 how much I'd eventually enjoy any scene with Skully I wouldn't have believed them. Also, I appreciated Einstein's airbrushed Jerome memorial tee. Hopefully Amin Joseph got one for directing the episode. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Why did Louie get so upset when she saw Gustavo at the wake?

Wait, what? All the mess she knows Teddy is in and Parissa still wants to marry him? She's kinda wacky but perhaps she's after the money. If they're married and he gets killed she can try to claim it.

Louie punching Franklin the way she did tore up her hands pretty badly too. I've never understood why people do that.

Gustavo should've moved his family out in the middle of the night and not told his MIL they were leaving. He didn't think that through but he was probably too worried about the 3-D chess game he was playing with the DEA, KGB, and Teddy.

Geez, Teddy being all dramatic, rolling up on Franklin at night with his car's high beams on.

Gustavo FTW! And not a second too soon, yikes. Who'd have thought the KGB would be no match for a former luchador (who probably had at least 100 pounds on Reuben, lol)?

Teddy is so fucked. The CIA couldn't care less about him. But I'm thinking they still might show up and terminate everybody just to be rid of the entire problem.

There's an interesting theory over on reddit that Veronique is DEA. That guy handling Gustavo said he had trained three women who all did exceptionally well undercover. Teddy killed one and the KGB guy just killed another. There's still one left and the only other women in Frankin's vicinity are Cissy, Wanda, and Louie.

This episode was stellar. I would put it up there with Breaking Bad's penultimate episode,  "Ozymandias," but I guess I'll wait to see how the next-to-last show of Snowfall turns out. It may be even better.

Quote

we have a very messy assassination of several DEA agents

Is it certain they're dead? The only one Reuben directly shot was the female agent.

Quote

It would be interesting to see Singleton's version of such.

I dunno, he wasn't really about the  government agent vs government agent stuff. I think the main reason Snowfall has gone in that direction at all is because John Singleton was no longer able to provide input.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

It was Cissy all along.

Another Godfather nod to all the speechifying getting real as to culpability:  We're (all) part of the same conspiracy, Senator.  

I'd be fine if we never see Oso again.  It wasn't exactly Rick and Renault, but the walk off was very satisfying.

A super significant piece in this ep is that the money had been moved to escrow.  It was no longer hidden from view as it had been for months.  Certainly, the government would find a way to access and grab it.  With luck, "Teddy's" half would be subject to a tracing process back to the source of "Franklin's" half.  At any rate, $37 million is not nothing.

There is no way Lee would have all this free time to support Franklin as he is just now consolidating his empire.  It would be all he could do just to keep that thing from completely imploding.  There were all manner of "clubs" of varying ethnicities who were constantly probing for weakness that they grab bigger market shares.  

So...how many 180's did Cissy do in this one ep?  She lectures Franklin about the need to get out as cleanly as possible, yet she ends up adding a hit on a Company agent.  I love that she was so self-absorbed in her own righteous fury that she did not see that Franklin's plan to go legit (hello Michael Corleone) depended upon receipt of that money.  She has now consigned him to a horrible fate.  

Now that Franklin is utterly screwed, what is the point of keeping KGB dude alive?  He was certainly lying to Cissy about the "tapes."  If he weren't, the intel would have been passed to the appropriate parties before they all went merrily to make the transfer.  Even if he were truthful, what would he add as a lone wolf (bear?)?

To that point, I was just not buying Teddy as a Super patriot in this last season.  He had been treated very badly and basically exiled by TPTB in Intelligence.  Havemeyer was a nice connection, but until proven after the fact of giving all the money to the government, there was no way of knowing if he were being truthful about Teddy's "future" in the Company.  The Teddy we all came to know would never, ever, have genuinely sought to get back his career for "the good of the country."  He now had a future with the love of his life, Parissa.  Ya think he would have even considered giving up that money of his own free will?  Riiiiight.

Veronique is as cold-blooded as they come.  Given her raising, this makes total sense.  Was there any inkling whatsoever in this ep that the baby was still alive and/or that it wasn't?  Inscrutable, this one is.

As much as I would love for Oso to just live out a mundane life, the reality is that the DEA would never cease hunting him down for his part in the murder of at least one agent (I say it was at least three), and his betrayal/lying to them as a counter-spy would.  I LOVED that Oso retorted that the name he would adopt if he returned to wrestling was, "Saint."  Perfect.

Did anyone else flashback to Allen Ludden when Teddy was asked for the password (Password is...).

For all my criticisms, I have to give props to TPTB for creating a riveting and decently plausible penultimate ep.  Most especially, having Teddy murdered by a Saint.

 

  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Did Franklin sic the DEA on Louie, or did Gustavo clue him in so he did Louie a favor by telling her they were coming?

Oh okay, Franklin played a timing game. He knew Louie was about to be raided. He better hope she keeps running, far away from him.

So Cissy wasn't in with Ruben. She's just been stringing him along all this time? He's a bad KGB agent if that's true.

Crackhead Buckley. Of course Louie played him. She better dump his car quckly though.

Veronique to the rescue! She was not about to lose the real estate portfolio on top of the $73M. She worked too hard to get it.

Guess Teddy had decided he was ready to die when he finally told Franklin he was a merely a tool in Teddy's "patriotic" agenda.

CISSY! Noooo! Well, at least we finally know for sure Alton is dead. But geez, she couldn't wait 30 seconds to shoot Teddy? She had to punish Franklin too?

Is Franklin not aware of Parissa? She may be a wild card because Teddy likely told her the bank info as proof of his twu lub.

Meanwhile, Teddy's baby mama sort of predicted his death, no? His end did indeed happen as a public execution.

IMO this was a good episode with some suspenseful twists and turns. I would not put it up there with Breakin Bad's "Ozymandias" though. Am now eagerly awaiting the Snowfall finale.

Also, I would've played an Al Green tune over the ending credits, in honor of getting splashed with hot grease/oil. 😏

[Lonesome Rhodes]

We have a last chance to make Snowfall predictions.  I have a few...

Parissa kills Franklin.

Wanda is made a widow.

Louie gets caught and chooses death over prison.

Veronique walks away with almost nothing. 

Y'all have any?

[UrbanShocker]

A bit underwhelming but I guess that was to be expected after last week's killing of Teddy (usually shows have their "shocking" death the penultimate week and then an "aftermath" show for the finale).  By the way I'm not convinced Teddy was going to just give up $37 million so there was no guarantee Franklin was going to get that money even if Cissy didn't kill Teddy.  She kept her word though - she never talked to Franklin again even though he tried.

In any event, Franklin got much more greedy this season than he was previously - I always thought he was more power mad than money mad though I guess in his world there's not much difference.  But in the end it turned out Veronique was even more greedy than Franklin and got out before he could do anything about it.  Ending with alcoholic Franklin destitute was a bit sad but I would have thought Franklin would have ended up in prison trying to steal back his money.

Fortunately none of Lonesome Rhodes' predictions happened - I was surprised Leon made it to 1990 and though Louie is still a fugitive she hasn't been caught yet (as of 1989 anyway).  Hopefully Oso can make his way to North Carolina.  Leon even hinted at the (potential) spinoff about Wanda and LA hip-hop in the 90's. And Parissa was nowhere to be found so we'll never know what became of her.

Postscript:  The best part of the episode was the inside joke of Franklin and Leon finding a movie set and yelling "You won't win an Oscar for that!" - of course that references Boyz n the Hood and John Singleton was nominated for an Oscar for it. A fitting tribute.

 

[Chatty Cake]

I felt bad for Miguel. 
I’m glad Leon survived and is still with Wanda. 
I wasn’t expecting Franklin to descend into alcoholism. I thought he would be killed or end up behind bars. 
Was happy to see a final glimpse of Gustavo. 

 

[Sarah 103]

I never expected Leon to turn out to be the sane, rational, responsible one who end up the best out of all of the lead characters. Compared to everyone else, he almost has it all. He has a pretty good job that is helping people/giving back to the community, he is in a stable relationship with Wanda, and he is not currently wanted by any government or law enforcement agency. 

I was sure Franklin was going to end up in jail or dead by the end of the series. It never occured to me he would end up drunk and homeless.  

[Avaleigh]

The finale was depressing, but very powerful. I was expecting to learn a little more about Louie's fate. Weird that the DEA are still after her but not Franklin. 

I was so convinced that Franklin would end up dead or in jail. I never predicted this fate worse than death where he ends up a crazed, alcoholic homeless man. He's basically in the same position as his father in the first season of the series.

Cissy was very disappointing. Not only does she screw Franklin out of the money,  but she doesn't even bother to explain herself. She doesn't give Franklin any final words of advice or tell him that she feels too betrayed to want to maintain any sort of relationship with him. She's just a silent wall. How does she think that's going to make Franklin suddenly see the light and make better choices? 

It really ticked me off that Cissy acted happy that Leon was going to keep the shelter open. He's doing it with the same blood money she took from Franklin. 37 million dollars in the 1980s is the kind of life changing money that could provide more than one shelter. It's the kind of money that could have created jobs and something positive for their community. By doing that she just put the money back into the hands of the government she hates. Her choice to do that was absolutely  baffling on every level.

I disagree with Leon's take that Cissy was trying to give Franklin one last chance to get out. She made a split secind decision that was based on anger over the fact that Teddy lied about Franklin's dad being alive in a Puerto Rican prison somewhere. He got her hopes up and dashed them and it made Cissy see red because Teddy did it in such a dismissive way. Teddy was another in a long list of white men who made Cissy feel like she didn't matter as a human being. I would have understood her choice to shoot him a lot more if she'd done it after the exchange was complete. That would have been the bigger FU to Teddy to let Franklin win, but instead she fucked over herself and Franklin for a brief moment of satisfaction. It was very frustrating to watch.

Also, Leon is still in the game, right? That's why he had that meeting with his men about finding a new supplier. He also confirmed to Cissy that he's still in it and she disapproved. The reason I bring this up is because I wonder why Leon was given a happy ending considering the community is still being poisoned with drugs?

I really liked the tie in of the filming of Boyz in the Hood. Very fitting. I'd be curious to see a spin off series where Leon is the boss. 

All in all this was a great series. It's too bad it doesn't get more attention or any awards consideration. 

[Sarah 103]

6 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Also, Leon is still in the game, right? That's why he had that meeting with his men about finding a new supplier. He also confirmed to Cissy that he's still in it and she disapproved.

I thought when he left for Africa (between time jumps in the episde), he walked away from the game permanently and someone else took over. When he see him in the last scenes of the episode, he is no longer involved in drugs. 

[Avaleigh]

1 minute ago, Sarah 103 said:

I thought when he left for Africa (between time jumps in the episde), he walked away from the game permanently and someone else took over. When he see him in the last scenes of the episode, he is no longer involved in drugs. 

Ah, that explains why those kids on the street didn't recognize him. I thought they just didn't know the higher ups in their organization. 

One thing about Leom going back to Africa is that in the earlier seasons, he was portrayed as having a very large family of siblings and he was more or less in charge because the mom was kind of a flake. I wonder what became of all of his siblings once he was out of the picture long term. You'd have to think that more than likely one or more of them ended up in the gang life. 

[Dowel Jones]

24 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I was expecting to learn a little more about Louie's fate. Weird that the DEA are still after her but not Franklin. 

Possibly they were looking for the easy grab, and then use her to build a case against Franklin.  Happens all the time with the Mafia.