Snowfall - General Discussion

[Joimiaroxeu]

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Wonder why Manboy is called Manboy

He explained it in the episode before this one.

[UNOSEZ]

56 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

He explained it in the episode before this one.

Yeah.. But when Wanda was getting thrown out ahead said she knew the real reason he's called Manboy... And that's when he wigged out and almost choked her to death... So I'm thinking there might be more to it

[Joimiaroxeu]

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But when Wanda was getting thrown out ahead said she knew the real reason he's called Manboy... And that's when he wigged out and almost choked her to death... So I'm thinking there might be more to it 

Oh, I thought she was insinuating he was of less than average endowment in the crotchular area. That's a commonly thrown insult in the heat of the moment. Unless he's never had any sexual partners that wouldn't be something that would've remained a secret so I doubt it's that. I have another idea but I'll be quite surprised if the show goes there.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I'd bet a lot of cash that Melody ends up taking out her Dad, or she gets taken out in front of him.  This show is that absurd.

Franklin's ire needs to be focused on the fools, including Jerome, who did not take appropriate precautions and/or did not act smartly when the po po showed up.  Hotheads need not apply.  Right, Michael Franklin Corleone? 

So, with all the interruptions, how the heck is product getting distributed/sold?  where is the cash room?  who is counting?  It ain't Franklin or Leon.  There is nobody trustworthy enough to handle that.  

The Company (CIA) did a 180 and is now again hip deep in the operation with Teddy?  When did this happen?  His wife may be the biggest fool of them all.   Run.

I like Oso.  I can't figure out what he is doing.  Murdering Lucia was a brilliant move, but he did it for honor?   

[Lonesome Rhodes]

One of the most satisfying eps of the series.

Finally, real world complications and consequences.  The CIA finally acting like the CIA - sucks to be you, Reed.

Melody gonna wake up about the real world?  Nahhhh.  But, it was good to see her get a taste of what she has been messing with.  

Franklin's planning session revealed he was moving two dozen+ kilos a week.  Now, add in Scully's 20.  Each week.  Where is the supply?  Was that airstrip built out?  Hello, Avi.

It's a genuine delight trying to figure out what Franklin's gonna do with the badge and gun.  Similarly, the Sergeant's plans for Franklin.  Will Singleton go full Tarantino?  

[Msample]

On 8/3/2019 at 1:11 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I like Oso.  I can't figure out what he is doing.  Murdering Lucia was a brilliant move, but he did it for honor?   

Wait, you mean Soledad ? I gotta say I am puzzled why they basically erased the Oso/Lucia story line this season. Then murdered Soledad early . There aren't many female characters left .  And even Oso seems to be getting written out in recent episodes. 

[Sarah 103]

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Melody gonna wake up about the real world?  Nahhhh.  But, it was good to see her get a taste of what she has been messing with.  

I don't understand what you mean. Melody's neighbors were mad because her father arrested thier friends and family. Her drug use (if they even know about it) was not part of the argument. Also, her father has been part of the LAPD for years. I doubt this was the first time he had arrested a friend or family member of someone Melody knew.

Since the start of this season, I wondered whether Franklin's own greed or ambition would be his downfall, or whether it would be someone he was working with. Tonight, I think I have my answer. One of Franklin's people is going to be what brings him down. It won't be something Franklin did but one of his people is going to make a giant mistake that ultimately brings down the entire operation.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

28 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I don't understand what you mean. Melody's neighbors were mad because her father arrested thier friends and family. Her drug use (if they even know about it) was not part of the argument. Also, her father has been part of the LAPD for years. I doubt this was the first time he had arrested a friend or family member of someone Melody knew.

One of Franklin's people is going to be what brings him down. It won't be something Franklin did but one of his people is going to make a giant mistake that ultimately brings down the entire operation.

She has been willfully (lustfully?) ignorant of the monster Franklin - who he is and what he is doing to people just like her.  She starts using, for crying out loud!   Then, she transfers blame to her righteous dad for whatever may be lacking in her existence.  This last is most certainly a common and understandable trait!  Especially in a single parent household.  It's still a ruinous path to trod.  Tragedy is all but guaranteed in this arc.

What was her reaction to her dad deciding to get her the hell out of a mortally perilous situation ASAP?  Resentment!  She refused to see.  Then she got beat.  Hopefully, this was finally her wake up call.  I'm not putting any money on that proposition anytime soon.

I agree that Franklin's Achilles Heel all along has been the clown show organization he has cobbled together.  He is most wise to try to separate himself from such, but I don't see it happening.  It takes a whole lot of good fortune to scale up any enterprise.  Good fortune = identifying great, not good, people to help you achieve such goals.  I'm not seeing a lot of those.

[chick binewski]

I know it's (mostly) Franklin's story but I'd like to see more from (poor sad lonely duped) Andre. I like the actor and it would be interesting to see him interact with people in the neighborhood who might support his efforts. I'm hoping he stays around for a while. I can also appreciate Melody's weakness as I was a dumb teenager a long, long time ago but that girl really needs to wake up.

I also appreciated Jerome's reserve regarding Franklin's actions. The way the actor played it made me believe he's not just protecting his business but also regretting the first bag of shake he gave to Franklin.

And thank you Egypt Lover dude for being more creepy than S1 rapist.

Renewed for a 4th season

[Joimiaroxeu]

Why was Andre so weird about taking that woman to his home? Was he ashamed of where he lives or did he not want Melody to know he was getting him some?

Franklin is smart. Stealing Andre's badge and gun was probably way worse for him than getting killed.

But Franklin just had to gloat at Andre in the driveway. That might prove to be a huge mistake because now Andre's pride is on the line.

Andre got reminded that he couldn't get away with the kind of sketchy stuff the White cops could. Then he got suspended and he'll likely have IA looking over his shoulder for whatever remains of his career. So now he's going to double-down?

Of course Teddy's ex is working him.

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One of Franklin's people is going to be what brings him down . It won't be something Franklin did but one of his people is going to make a giant mistake that ultimately brings down the entire operation.

Yeah, I think it'll be Manboy because of that psycho Skully. Leon knows dealing with Skully even with Manboy as a go-between will likely be bigger trouble than they need. Unfortunately Franklin's gotten even more cocky since he's been handling things lately like he's playing 3D chess while everyone else is on checkers.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Raja]

I think this is one of those all bad people shows and Franklin walks away in the end.  So far he is not identified with any specific gang, nor Manboy or Sully he is almost above the street level stuff

My nitpick "Sergeant" Wright when he is clearly not wearing Sergeant's stripes. With the continued references about the 1984 Olympics about to start, Sergeant Wright using near the Colosseum (and thus Olympic ceremonies) to sell the need for the Rock house raids, I wonder if they keep sliding the timeline. 

[misstwpherecool]

I like Leon for telling it like it was/is. He had a hostage. And the psycho will bring them all down. Was that sweat or blood after he came out of the room.

I don't know if Reed is being played as much as she trying to keep her job. She is the mother of his child I think. I thought undercovers/spies etc were taught how to fake snorting cocaine but it is kind of tough in such close proximity.

I think in the end Franklin will use his research on the connections, leak it to a reporter but will be written off as a conspiracy theory. Reed is in deep poop but plausible deniability will save him. The CIA won't admit to anything on domestic soil even though part of a foreign op. Missing DEA agent as previewed will be part of the downfall. DEA friend will pull the trigger early on an op/investigation that reveal or disrupt the op.

I know it's not supposed to Iran Contra conspiracy to the letter. But my guess Reed will be forced to find different suppliers, pilots, routes etc the will wind up with them being outed.

Edited August 10, 2019 by misstwpherecool

[Joimiaroxeu]

Looks like Reed's chickens might be thinking about coming home to roost. Franklin is stirring them up from one direction and Soledad's former DEA partner from another.

The Spook Who Sat by the Door isn't a reference I would've expected to hear on a show like this. (Apparently last year Lee Daniels optioned the book for a series on Fox. Not sure how I feel about that. Hopefully it'll end up on cable/streaming and not on the Fox broadcast network.)

"Go to school, heaux!" Not a bad motto. 🤔

Wait, what? Did Andre just happen to get pulled over or is he getting targeted? Interesting how Franklin knew stealing Andre's badge and gun would cause him trouble. He probably didn't even consider the DWB issue,

And there goes Melody's future down the drain. Wonder if she'll even make it to college.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Dowel Jones]

So Tom Cruise is hanging out in the nightclub, eh?  Looks like Reed has a new pilot for his cocaine flights.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Mr. Saint may be a genius - but without the massive Colombian connection Reed affords him, he ain't nuthin'.

Mrs. Reed acting all concerned was rich.  She's playing a game on her ex, who is actually doing the Company's bidding, in service to a major policy goal (however misguided) of the president.  The very same Company who is trying to have it both ways now.  And SHE gets to play both sides with impunity.  

I'm with Oso - I really liked the Gopher.

How did that huge shipment get to Reed?  Oso was out doing other things.  TPTB went to great lengths to show us how he had to improvise.  We never see any of it working?  He has, basically, nobody logistically supporting him that we know of.   Well, the Mrs., but we know she is holier than thou and could never touch the shipments.   LOL

Andre was an idiot in how he handled the DWB stop.  He knows good and damn well that he needed to immediately respond precisely to any instructions.  It was fine to say he was on the job.  But, his reluctance to put his hands on the wheel?  Would never happen, imo.  

While watching Melody at the end, all I could think of was Ron White.  He's right.

[UNOSEZ]

Another great episode... Manboy with his casual lies... You could see the pain on Franklin and Leon's faces when they finally found her... The actress for Wanda did an amazing job.. Cant wait for Next week looks like stuff may hit the fan 

[misstwpherecool]

Several conflicts brewing. Franklin and Leon once Leon finds out Wanda was hit in the head by Franklin's ex. Reeds wife wants him out. I don't know if she's there to shut down the op or she just wants him out. Gustavo all gangster and thug now-his time or freedom is limited now since he's leaving a trail of destruction.

The Franklin gangs looks compromised next week. My guess either Reed or another CIA staffer to control an investigation.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I was bored.

Mrs. Teddy was sent to make good and dang sure the CIA was free from liability with the operation or shut it down, making sure Teddy took any necessary falls.  Then Oso forever ruined any chance Teddy had of getting out slick as you please by murdering Agent Soledad.

Franklin and his mother's pain over Melody is well deserved.  The heck with both of them.

The previews looked like some reality is about to rain down on our intrepid lad.  It better.

The one thing I genuinely loved in this ep was just how lightning fast Wanda went from BFF to thug on Melody.  Really good portrayal of how hype and driven those users are.  I wasn't really buying it when Melody smashed Wanda's head.  Too bad for Mel her ruby-encrusted accessory could not get her back to Kansas.

Did Oso first massively wound that bad guy before he chucked him out the window?  There was zero blood where the stunt/doll whatever first hit the ground.  Then we saw a massive pool as Oso strutted past.  Bad job, Director.

Bad episode.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Joimiaroxeu]

Is it realistic for Melody to have descended so far that quickly? She wasn't as physically bad off as Wanda but that was only because Wanda had been at it longer. I thought only heroin got people addicted after just one hit?

Dang, Oso needs a hobby.

Franklin has an amazing ability to compartmentalize. He saw up close and personal what harm his "business" was doing to someone he actually cared about. He must be pretty close to dead inside. Reed OTOH is willfully blind and a true believer who thinks he's some kind of hero but will probably be made a scapegoat. Hope he's had enough foresight to stash some money offshore.

[Sarah 103]

21 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Is it realistic for Melody to have descended so far that quickly? She wasn't as physically bad off as Wanda but that was only because Wanda had been at it longer. I thought only heroin got people addicted after just one hit?

I was going to post a version of this exact question. Nice to know I'm not the only one who wondered if it was possible to become addicted to crack so quickly. Hopefully someone will answer it for us. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

On 8/23/2019 at 10:18 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I was going to post a version of this exact question. Nice to know I'm not the only one who wondered if it was possible to become addicted to crack so quickly. Hopefully someone will answer it for us. 

It's not typical.  It did/does happen.

In Melody's case, she already was enjoying cocaine.  This was not her "first" time.  I did consider her "all the sudden" mania.  It's very easy for me to accept.  

The classic description of addiction is:  Continued use despite adverse consequences.

She may not have experienced direct consequences, beside getting her ass beat once.  But, she did know she was playing with fire, Scarecrow.  There was a lot going on in that pretty little head beyond rationality.  Rock sealed the deal straight away, imo.

[Joimiaroxeu]

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The classic description of addiction is:  Continued use despite adverse consequences.

I think that can be one component of addiction. There's also a matter of the body eventually coming to need the substance else adverse physical consequences are suffered. That's why with some drugs users just can't go off them cold turkey. Wanda was definitely at that point but I'm not sure Melody was. It seemed like she just fell off a cliff the first time she used crack.

[buttercupia]

OK, where is Lucia? We need her for the shirtless Oso opportunities. 

I got kinda sucked in by the music and the visual style of the show. Now I'm just here for Oso.

[coconspirator]

Frankliin has officially gone down the road of being unredeemable, if he wasn't there already.  The endgame for this show has to be some sort of reckoning for Franklin and for Teddy.  I also need to see Franklin's mother get hers as she enables her son to destroy their community because it benefits her financially.

[Raja]

So who went sniping and killed Avi's guard, the LAPD vigilante hit squad?

[misstwpherecool]

On 8/30/2019 at 6:45 AM, Raja said:

So who went sniping and killed Avi's guard, the LAPD vigilante hit squad?

It could be CIA or maybe Franklin's parent's private investigator who probably does merc work for the cause. I was thinking Teddy's wife but I think she would go directly after the drug people, not the money people. Maybe the DEA guy got wind of something. Or Teddy's wife turned Avi's location over to his known enemies. Alot of suspects in this one.

Teddy's wife is right though, Bring drugs into the US along with covering up a DEA agent murder is just crazy.

As noted both Franklin and Teddy need their cumupins at this point. Both are becoming the opposite of what they are trying to avoid. Ironically Teddy of all people should know how communism starts and ferments in poor areas of the world. What does he think a drug ravaged neighborhood will become and fester. Franklin is now a paranoid Scareface not thinking acting on emotion/paranoia. He played a thinking mans strategy to the top and now will go down as a thug. Same for Gustavo.

I sort of knew that Franklin would kill Andre(strong character and actor to kill off) because it seems I've seen those scenes before where the person holding the gun debates at the last minute wether to kill the person or not and as the scene ends bang. At first I thought Franklin was showing Andre mercy by shooting out of sight then I saw the suicide staging which he thought out in advance which makes Franklin a stone cold paranoid killer at this point.

One thing that sort of let you know Franklin would kill Andre is that previously Franklin's dad had to tell  him that would be the worst thing he could do but the fact that it was mentioned the way it was showed how much Franklin already wanted to kill him. The house break-in was the last straw. Throw in the panicy Teddy phone call Franklin is strictly worried about his own butt now.

[Dowel Jones]

The staged suicide won't hold up under investigation, assuming the LAPD doesn't want to cover it up.  There would be powder burns on Andre's head from a close range shot, plus the angle was wrong for a self inflicted wound.  There would likely be gunpowder residue on his arm, as there is on Franklin's arm.  Not that they could pin it on Franklin, but he's now a prime target for any of Andre's friends in the department.  Plus, Melody, if she straightens up, would be screaming to the world about how her dad was murdered.

[misstwpherecool]

Just a thought but it looks like Gustavo is going to become a problem. Would Teddy go so far as to kill Gustavo not only for vengance but one less witness to his criminal activity?

Still mad they killed the DEA lady off. Another strong character and actress gone. Shows the level of the show when they can get rid of strong actors and characters and still continue.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Poor Melody. It's a wonder she didn't end up getting beaten up or forced to prostitute herself like Wanda.

Reed is pretty much an addict too, to the 3D chess game he's running. He's got that gaunt, dead-eyed, and twitchy demeanor like a lot of junkies do.

Franklin didn't have his stuff very well protected if Andre was able to break in so easily and get that folder. I guess he figured he was hiding in plain sight?

It was good to see Franklin panicked for a change. Meanwhile, Teddy walks into a torture and death chamber intended for him and his veins are filled with ice water.

Julia had no idea how bad off Teddy is. He's gone too. She might as well high-tail it out of LA or he'll likely take her down with him.

And just like that Melody's over the crackhead life? It probably won't last long since she'll now likely inherit whatever assets Andre had. She can sell it all off to feed her habit.

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Bring drugs into the US along with covering up a DEA agent murder is just crazy.

And yet it happened, at least once that the public knows of. There likely were other times that were better covered up.

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The staged suicide won't hold up under investigation, assuming the LAPD doesn't want to cover it up. 

At the very least they'll wonder how he got his gun back, right? It's terrible he was murdered but he probably shouldn't have been trying to be a cowboy when he knew he didn't have the support of his organization. He was mainly on a revenge trip.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Spicoli could fix Jefferson's Camaro and Teddy and Franklin can save their operations, and their hides.

The very fact Julia was sent to shut him down would have told Teddy/Reed it was over.  It also would have told him his career was shot.  So....what to do?  Did he see himself as a dead man, either way?  It at least makes some sense for him to try to move forward.  If nothing else, Rigo will end him.  Teddy is persona non grata.  He can't possibly live up to the promises he made.

Did anyone else wonder how there was such a massive amount of coke just sitting there despite the fact he had only Oso (who was in Mexico) to help him?  Not that much time had elapsed since the last ep.

Would Franklin have spared Andre if he had not been insistent on going after him body and soul and returning to L.A.?  I don't think he would have.  The forensics would have been as precise and exacting as the science allowed.  Would politics prevent a finding of murder?  The Department would look pretty bad to the PPL if they insist Andre was dirty.  This could make for a fascinating arc.

Julia really is the worst.  She anointed herself God and made saving Teddy the most important thing.  It did not help that she triggered a tsunami which will not be stopped, drowning them all.

I appreciate that we are now getting a more realistic perspective as to how everything hinged on disaster at all times, and that the disaster is now reality.  

It's interesting to me that Mr. Saint and his wife (Franklin's parents) have decided to stay.  Everything they warned their son about will come down on them, too.  Why are they not acting out on what they know?   Why aren't they giving all manner of hell to Franklin to get him to see the light?   

[Joimiaroxeu]

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Did anyone else wonder how there was such a massive amount of coke just sitting there despite the fact he had only Oso (who was in Mexico) to help him?  Not that much time had elapsed since the last ep.

Not so much how but why? Was he trying to drive the price up by artificially limiting the supply? Or at least not drive the price down by oversaturating the market?

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It's interesting to me that Mr. Saint and his wife (Franklin's parents) have decided to stay.  Everything they warned their son about will come down on them, too.  Why are they not acting out on what they know?   Why aren't they giving all manner of hell to Franklin to get him to see the light?   

🎶Hey, must be the money!🎶 Heh, I think Alton doesn't concern himself with much more than trying to stay sober (and now trying to warn Franklin about the dangers of his CIA/FBI/DEA ties). However, I do think Cissy is in it for the financial benefit. In fact, I still believe she's been secretly siphoning some money off for herself.

[Maybeitsme]

I got a weird satisfaction seeing Mel shoot Franklin, I mean I almost cheered when she took the second and then third shot.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

A few impossible squaring of circles in this one.

Havemeyer, the CIA dude now helping Rigo, would never have responded to Teddy's demand to meet.  Remember, the Company had already disavowed him.  All that would happen is an instant shutdown and removal of Teddy.  Permanently.  Now, he's gonna get Mossad to back off an arms and drug dealer who was responsible for a successful terror attack?  Remember...there was a scene recently where the honchos decided they really didn't ned the cash anymore - they were going to get their strategic aims met anyway.  AND..the rabid DEA dude now had the backing at the top of that agency.  The CIA was gonna do a Seacrest, OUT.

Julia insisting she was righteous for following the bidding of the Agency, which she knew full well, had set it all up and gave significant aid to Teddy.  This was her ultimate justification - following legal orders.  At least Teddy knows who he is.

Now, we have Teddy using.  He's done.  That's one of the most anvilicious examples of foreshadowing I have ever seen. 

Nothing whatsoever was made of Andre getting his weapon back.  That very fact ruins the suicide narrative.  If he had actually retrieved it, he would have been able to go to Internal Affairs and force their hands.  Either they explained how he managed to pull off such a stunt, or they would have been forced to acknowledge some important conspiracy.  The PPL would have kicked some serious behind getting Andre reinstated so he could make his 20.  Or...the perp who stole it used it to kill him.

I genuinely loved the scene with Bernice and Cissy.  Cissy deserved every bit of that.  She sure as heck wasn't going to sever her ties with the evil Bernice called out.  

I also enjoyed Franklin blessing out that fool Leon.  He made a grave error going all Michael Corleone on the Compton dude (Cowboy?).  Unless...he contacted him very quickly afterward and acknowledged the wrong and made some offer of amends.

Any thoughts from y'all on the meaning of the brown outs being depicted?

Oso for the win!  

[Dowel Jones]

So I guess Mel isn't going off to Spelman College this next term. 

When she hears about this, I don't think Wanda is going to try and act tough around Mel anymore.

Teddy was cold; "Leave your keys on the counter before you leave."  He's going to die a cold, lonely death.

What if Mossad wasn't really responsible for the failed attack on Ari?  He might think they are, but if it's someone in the cocaine pipeline, Teddy's contacting Mossad will only cause more problems for himself.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

15 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

What if Mossad wasn't really responsible for the failed attack on Ari?  

This was my first reaction.  I instantly thought Teddy knew it was about drugs and that he would never actually have to get his CIA contacts, such as they are(n't), to do anything about Mossad.  He already had his plan to re-assert his dominance and protect his friends in the drug realm/milieu.

[Sarah 103]

On 9/2/2019 at 1:21 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Would politics prevent a finding of murder?  The Department would look pretty bad to the PPL if they insist Andre was dirty.  This could make for a fascinating arc.

I don't think it's going there. Money will stop the truth from getting out. Franklin staged it to sort of look like a suicide. Andre's partner is more than willing to go along with that story and paid off the ME to say it was suicide. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Sarah 103

[Raja]

On 9/5/2019 at 6:57 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I don't think it's going there. Money will stop the truth from getting out. Franklin staged it to sort of look like a suicide. Andre's partner is more than willing to go along with that story and paid off the ME to say it was suicide. 

Any pay off would have had to be before he made the deal with Franklin though. In those days after Quincy was cancelled and before CSI it looked enough like suicide for an easy sign off on the County's ME part.  And if LA was working like Baltimore in The Wire then nobody was going to turn a closed suicide case into an open murder case. With the "base head", still in the early days they were thinking free basing like Richard Pryor, being the only person saying murder a gang unit (CRASH) cop really didn't have the juice to stop what the homicide detectives would do.

So I guess going into the season finale with Franklin laid up Leon's greed kicks off the gang wars.

[chick binewski]

On 9/2/2019 at 1:21 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Would Franklin have spared Andre if he had not been insistent on going after him body and soul and returning to L.A.?  I don't think he would have.  The forensics would have been as precise and exacting as the science allowed.  Would politics prevent a finding of murder?  The Department would look pretty bad to the PPL if they insist Andre was dirty.  This could make for a fascinating arc.

***

It's interesting to me that Mr. Saint and his wife (Franklin's parents) have decided to stay.  Everything they warned their son about will come down on them, too.  Why are they not acting out on what they know?   Why aren't they giving all manner of hell to Franklin to get him to see the light?   

Initially I thought Franklin might not have pulled the trigger if Andre didn't disclose his future plans. But looking back on that scene I believe Andre was never getting out of that situation alive; Franklin wouldn't have held a gun on Andre unless he fully intended to use it.

I try  to overlook the inconsistency of Cissy & Alton's support because I like both the actors very much, but their actions seem completely implausible to me. I thought one of the more powerful scenes in the series was when Franklin returned home with his post-flight childlike glee and Michael Hyatt shut the door in his face. We haven't seen any significant change in her character that would explain why the money would be enough to give her a new attitude.

Am I alone in thinking Andre's partner is running a long con on Franklin? Idk, the reveal of his home life was done for some reason. 

[Raja]

20 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

Initially I thought Franklin might not have pulled the trigger if Andre didn't disclose his future plans. But looking back on that scene I believe Andre was never getting out of that situation alive; Franklin wouldn't have held a gun on Andre unless he fully intended to use it.

I try  to overlook the inconsistency of Cissy & Alton's support because I like both the actors very much, but their actions seem completely implausible to me. I thought one of the more powerful scenes in the series was when Franklin returned home with his post-flight childlike glee and Michael Hyatt shut the door in his face. We haven't seen any significant change in her character that would explain why the money would be enough to give her a new attitude.

Am I alone in thinking Andre's partner is running a long con on Franklin? Idk, the reveal of his home life was done for some reason. 

I think the CIA is the ultimate bad guys and a proto Rafael Perez corrupt CRASH officer would fit that larger narrative 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I had a difficult time buying Franklin's dream memories/alt universe at Claremont in 1982.  While there was certainly institutional racism in any given place, academia in California would not have been.  If an urban youth/undergrad like Franklin showed out as he did with his professors, special care and attention of the best kind would have been afforded him.

It was interesting to see the Godfather moment where the lead recognized he would be pulled back in and not escape a criminal destiny.  Franklin's logic was severely twisted, which well reflected that he was, in fact, twisted.  I hope the filmmakers were not trying to say he was justified in any of it.

I very much enjoyed the meet with Reed/Teddy at the end.  Again, Teddy was in no position to make that deal, like he did with Rigo before.  But, he was that screwed.  His only hope was to keep the Franklin pipeline running.  

Unfortunately, there's just no way the vacuum had not already developed as Franklin was mending.  Leon even commented as to how bad things were.  Sooooooomebody was meeting market demand.  Of course, Leon had alienated the Cowboy before the shooting.  It's all just too much of a leap.  

The utter hypocrisy of Franklin's parents was stunning.  They had the choice to leave before things got out of hand.  Now, with Franklin making his Michael Corleone choice, they will just stay.  Of course it will be all about supporting their son.  lol

We're veering into Sons of Anarchy levels of non-sensical insanity now.  It will be hype and interesting.  The topic of rock and the ruination of whole communities did happen, just as there are MC's.  The CIA did grab many millions in dirty/corrupt drug money.  I'm simply saying the draaaaaama will not stay consistent in character and happenings.  

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I had a difficult time buying Franklin's dream memories/alt universe at Claremont in 1982.  While there was certainly institutional racism in any given place, academia in California would not have been.  If an urban youth/undergrad like Franklin showed out as he did with his professors, special care and attention of the best kind would have been afforded him.

Yes, but Franklin doesn't know that. He has no idea what college would have been like. It seems like the people in his neighborhood may have gone to community college or places like ITT Tech and that's it. Based on the lack of diversity, I thought it was a private college, more like Stanford and less like Berkley. Of course, it was all a fantasy created by someone who has no idea what any college is actually like beyond what he's seen in movies.

Franklin sees himself as Al Pacino in Godfather II- cool and in control of a vast criminal enterprise. In reality he's more like Al Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon-he's in way over his head and is one wrong move away from having it all blow up in his face. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

What college campus was that? The geography and foliage didn't look like California to me.

I do not understand how Franklin could've survived getting shot point-blank several times like he did. And did I miss a mention of what happened to Melody after she'd tried to kill him?

This was a powerful episode. I think it'll surely be nominated for an Emmy.

Quote

I hope the filmmakers were not trying to say he was justified in any of it.

Yeah, that was my initial read on the alternate universe and I decided it was too fatalistic for me to buy into.

Quote

Of course, it was all a fantasy created by someone who has no idea what any college is actually like beyond what he's seen in movies.

I think Franklin basically understood though that if he studied, made good grades, and graduated he'd be on a track that could elevate him beyond his roots. What he didn't account for was having the rug arbitrarily pulled from under him due to a misplaced decimal point and the vague application of "rules" by someone who didn't want to see people like him succeed. While fantasy Franklin gave up, IRL Frankie saw his getting shot as a temporary road block and he decided to press on. Not that I'm admiring the stone cold criminal Franklin is, but I can appreciate his willingness to play the cards he's dealt in the face of some hugely challenging odds. It's unfortunate he ended up in that life when clearly he was intelligent and had an analytical mind which could've served him well in other, less illegal ways.

[Raja]

23 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

What college campus was that? The geography and foliage didn't look like California to me.

I do not understand how Franklin could've survived getting shot point-blank several times like he did. And did I miss a mention of what happened to Melody after she'd tried to kill him?

It looked like the Foothills in the San Gabriel Valley to me, but I have never been on that campus. As far being shot point blank range supposes that the shooter actually hits the instantly lethal body part. Like Franklin did when he murdered the officer. The brain, the heart or an artery .  A hit in the torso is not instantly lethal, in cowboy movies death is just sped up for dramatic effect. With a room full of cops next door almost immediate medical care would have been on the way.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Raja

[Lonesome Rhodes]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

It looked like the Foothills in the San Gabriel Valley to me, but I have never been on that campus. 

It was Claremont-McKenna, which is indeed the foothills East of Pasadena near Pomona and Rancho Cucamonga.

I was wondering why we did not see the progress on Oso's tunnel.  I would guess it would be reasonably close to completion by the time Franklin got out of the hospital.  We could have had a Great Escape scene showing how they removed the earth they were digging out.   

In all seriousness...at what point do the Crips and Bloods take it all over?  That time period was their hayday.  It's a heckuva omission that they have not been represented on the show.  Cowboy does not count.  lol 

[Raja]

6 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

It was Claremont-McKenna, which is indeed the foothills East of Pasadena near Pomona and Rancho Cucamonga.

I was wondering why we did not see the progress on Oso's tunnel.  I would guess it would be reasonably close to completion by the time Franklin got out of the hospital.  We could have had a Great Escape scene showing how they removed the earth they were digging out.   

In all seriousness...at what point do the Crips and Bloods take it all over?  That time period was their hayday.  It's a heckuva omission that they have not been represented on the show.  Cowboy does not count.  lol 

I think the Bloods, red bandanas walking through the apartments shooting scene was the point where drug dealers lost control to the local street gang. I don't see how Franklin as one wholeseller of raw cocaine stops what is about to happen 

[Avaleigh]

Mr. Avaleigh and I just binge watched all of this over the past couple of weeks. I'm surprised that I haven't heard more buzz about this show because it's really well done.

My heart broke over the stories of Andre and Melody.

Andre is a character who tried to do the right thing. He tried to be a good guy but no matter what he did he just couldn't catch a break. He's alienated most of his neighbors and his community just by being a cop without any of them understanding or respecting that he's just trying to take a job where he can make a difference and help people. Then we see that there are people at his job who treat him like shit. He can't even enjoy eating some chicken without being harrassed by other cops. He has no love life or partner to give him support and the one time we do see him try to hook up with a woman it almost ends up costing him his job. On top of that, the one bright spot in his life, his daughter, is cruelly taken away from him in a way that he couldn't have prevented. 

Melody's rapid descent into crackhead territory was emotionally devastating to watch. I agree with those who thought that the downward spiral was a little too fast in terms of believability but that's my only complaint in an otherwise very well told story of drug addiction. 

She and the actress who played Wanda really nailed their scenes together. It's so sad to think of how many people's lives were lost forever because of one bad choice. (The choice to start using in the first place.) I wonder if either of them will be a part of next season.

I look forward to watching this again when it returns. Agreed that next season should focus a little more on gang warfare and the continued breakdown of the community. I still don't think that Franklin has acknowledged how much of a hand he's had in ruining the lives of the people in his community. I feel infuriated each time he talks about wanting to bring it to other places like Detroit, Chicago, NY, Baltimore, etc.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Avaleigh

[chick binewski]

Season 4 February 24

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The whole premise of the Saint story was an objection to immutable economic rules?  Who knew Franklin was a budding Keynesian?

Choosing Manboy over Skully did not seem to be the best decision.  It would have been nice to have some exposition as to why Saint went that way, aside from tribalism.  

Leon is not very wise.  He was always gonna be a problem for Franklin.  Now, he is an existential threat.  Is Leon in the Skully umbrella?  If not, why is he running dry of product?  What does Franklin know about this?

The reporter and her flunky have access to alllllll that 411, but has not heard of rock?  She does not "understand" drugs are a scourge to any community? 

Melody.  Franklin did not put out the word that he wanted to know EVERYthing about her while he rehabbed?  Who will prove to be more shrewd, her or Tonosse?  

The Avi character delivers once again.  Simon Wiesenthal's muscle?  Inspired.  

Teddy is more solid than ever with the CIA.  OK.  How did that happen?  What are his orders and parameters?  He's lucky to have Oso.  I am actually curious to see what the Company does to the TJ police chief.

  

[RealReality]

Dang it, I'm so glad this show is back!  Is anyone else watching this?  I'm so starved for quality content that I'm trying to save the second episode for this weekend.  I've been reduced to watching "Sidechicks of Charlotte" y'all.....I need this!

[Raja]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:24 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The whole premise of the Saint story was an objection to immutable economic rules?  Who knew Franklin was a budding Keynesian?

Choosing Manboy over Skully did not seem to be the best decision.  It would have been nice to have some exposition as to why Saint went that way, aside from tribalism.  

Leon is not very wise.  He was always gonna be a problem for Franklin.  Now, he is an existential threat.  Is Leon in the Skully umbrella?  If not, why is he running dry of product?  What does Franklin know about this?

The reporter and her flunky have access to alllllll that 411, but has not heard of rock?  She does not "understand" drugs are a scourge to any community? 

 

  

All I got on Leon is when he refused the offer to be Franklin's aide to be his own boss he lost his connection.

I think everybody feared Skully's faith inspired terror in Inglewood more than ManBoy's king of Compton reign. And Skully lives closer to Franklin if I remember his neighborhood. I guess it sucked for Franklin that neither side of the war lived in LAPD's area, even if their fights and murders fell under LAPD and not the Sheriff's homicide.

I was in the Army while all this was going on in real life but the street scourge was PCP and the cops thus their talking to reporters would not believe that pricy cocaine would be getting down to the poorer street level. That took a while and we are following everybody coming to that realization in this story.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Raja