S07.E20: 'Til DeAth Do Us Part

[RHJunkie]

Some notes after the finale:

1. I'll never get over the fact that this show has consciously chosen to glorify a relationship that is based on an adult male capitalizing on the immaturity and fantasy of a young underage girl who also happened to be his student. How fucked up is that? And of all of the relationships we've seen on this show, Aria and Ezra's relationship seems like the only one that was only ever challenged by external circumstances. It was always about something going on around them that made their relationship difficult, as if being two separate people with separate identities, ideas, thoughts, feelings and beliefs isn't enough to sometimes challenge each other. What a BS couple...still wished Aria...or preferably both had become victims of AD by the end of it all.

2. They could have made a whole season to explain why Alex became AD. But of course this is lazy writing. A villain is meant to be complex. You're supposed to hate who they've become but still sympathize and to some degree, still understand why they became the way they are. They missed out on the opportunity to really build around Charlotte's point of view but their saving grace is that her traumatic experience involved having to live in an asylum and having to go through the mental emotional and physical transition when she started growing older and better understanding herself as a young woman. It's understandable how she would fall into the deep end.  You don't get that with Alex. So she didn't get adopted by a rich family, that sucks but that alone doesn't stand to explain her descent into the territory of an evil killer and stalker. Are we just supposed to assume that she is the way she is because she inherited crazy from her mom?

3. Mona is the only A that we clearly understood that she was smart enough to pull off all A's stunts. With Charlotte and Alex, they were just presented as smart but we didn't really get to fully understand how they were able to pull it all off - for instance, who the hell built the game? You can't walk into a run of the mill toy store and ask them to build a game that will eject sharp and potentially fatal objects at anyone who tries to dismantle it. Are we supposed to assume that much like the crazy that ran in the family via Mary, that their intelligence was also something inherited? So because we knew Spencer is smart, it's just understood that Charlotte and Alex were also smart because she shared their genes? Mary and Jessica were identical twins, they had the same genes so why the hell wasn't Alison ever seen as remotely smart or naturally crazy? And if intelligence ran in the family, Spencer must be considered the dumb one because she couldn't figure it out until it was literally right under her nose.

4. Alex was arrested, wasn't she? If she at some point ended up in jail or in an asylum, how did Mona get a hold of her? And why didn't the Liars know that Alex and Mary were missing? If they were supposed to know, it seems highly unlikely that they would have been so happy about life knowing that there was the threat of Alex returning and making their lives miserable, or worse, simply offing them.

5. And lastly the end with history repeating itself - please God no. I pray that there is no spin off. On the bright side, if there is, at least I know better than to start watching so I won't fall  into the trap of getting too invested  in the outcome that I continue to watch even when the writing is bad.

[Mabinogia]

Did they invent Alex because the actress playing Charlotte wasn't available? Because isn't it kind of the same story. Long lost sibling who is jealous of how close the liars are torments them for some reason via means that defy logic? When "It was all a dream" is a much more satisfying option you know this ending was pulled out of someone's ass, probably after they ate the worlds largest bean burrito and spent the week on the toilet.

I will miss Mona. I will miss Ashley. I will...nope, there is pretty much nothing else on this crapfest I will miss. I've been missing the days when this show was actually good for years now.

[itsmandybitch]

What a shit-show of a finale, seriously Marlene King just scrolled through tons of fan fiction and carelessly tried stitching everything together.

Spencer's twin with a dodgy cockney accent
More lovers having-sex-and-confessing-their love 10 minute montage
The return of the shitty latex masks
Forced plot scenarios
The soundtrack changing every 5 seconds.
Toby's house has an underground bunker bigger than the inside of the Tardis. 
Reductive clones of the main 5 characters who we're supposed to care about

"Do you want a sedative?" Yes please.

The only good thing about this finale was the mini-sequel to drunk mums, which needs it's own spin-off.

[dwmckim]

I actually Tweeted Marlene voicing my disgust at how big a waste the last 7 years have been getting involved with stories and characters with far too many open mysteries left unanswered.  (Plus i do in all sincerity WANT to see an actual official episode guide book "PLL: All the Answers" - IMK actually said at one point she might consider doing one.)

Here's the address for those who'd like to support it by Liking/Retweeting it: 

Edited July 1, 2017 by dwmckim

[insubordination]

I watched this the other day, but was speechless for a while.  I haven't even given feedback to my two r/l friends who watch it.  My post is as disjointed as the show.

• At first I was having fun predicting 'He's A!', 'She's A!' etc. I was hoping it would be something unexpected like Caleb or Emily.
• I started to get annoyed and Haleb 'ship problems, unnecessary sex scenes,  and Emily's naivety and the Melissa fakeout. What a way to insult your viewers (further)! Then a Mona fake out - then an evil twin we never knew existed who also had the tech savvy to make a virtual world.  I wonder if ID twins get upset about their good/evil portrayal in the media.
• TB ain't no orphan black.  The character is lame because she is inexplicably obsessed with Toby.
• Then I got a bit excited 'cos I though Wren would be uber A, responsible for everything all along, but he turned out to be a lame duck When Ezra got a lot of screen time and locked up, I thought, 'Yes!, it's Ezra, and his mother funded it." I was gonna be very happy with that reveal.
• Even by the end, I was hoping it was at least Mona.
• The attempted tying up of the loose ends was not even worth listening to.  I don't even wanna know how Twincer did everything or Archer bs.  I guess twincer is just a 'crazy' genius like the rest of 'em.
•  Though CeCe reveal was very bad (A Minor character that we never would have guessed/cared was born as 'Charles'), this one was equally so.  So we get another set of good and evil identical twins.
• Jenna just wanted surgery? Addison screen time?
• I liked the horse and the basement reference.
• The only good thing about the finale was watching Aria be left at the alter and her line when she said something like, "What has this got to do with Ezra?" 
• I have wasted my life watching this, though I did enjoy the genuine scares way back when and Aria's wardrobe and earrings. It was also nice having a show with a female-heavy cast and despite this not being a good ep for Troian, she has kept me tuning in from week-to-week.  Still, I have wasted my life watching this.

[Perfect Xero]

"Toby, why is there a giant bunker under the house you built?"

 

"This is Rosewood, it's actually illegal to build a new house without a giant dungeon underneath it."

[AftermathTV]

57 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

"Toby, why is there a giant bunker under the house you built?"

 

"This is Rosewood, it's actually illegal to build a new house without a giant dungeon underneath it."

Alex must've been planning to settle down there with Toby. The giant dungeon would be where Alex discreetly disposed of any threats to her and the guy she was raping.

[Artsda]

Shouldn't Ezra have known who Wren was without Alex at the airport introducing him? Wren's pics were on Ezra's "book board timeline" at his Ravenswood office. 

[Free]

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 11:39 AM, dmc said:

Agreed, don't waste our time

totally cheap...it basically mean the last seven years were BS because we could have never guessed who it was

Agreed, it comes off as a bad fan fic/fan theory come to life.

[mac123x]

Listening to the BrosWatchPLLToo podcast.  It's 6.5 hours long.  I bought a fifth of whiskey.

 

I'm half way through it -- shorter version, they were orgasmic about the Twincer thing.

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Listening to the BrosWatchPLLToo podcast.  It's 6.5 hours long.  I bought a fifth of whiskey.

 

I'm half way through it -- shorter version, they were orgasmic about the Twincer thing.

I'm starting it now. My favorite thing is they mention Ali's terrible hair. 

[mac123x]

I'm on part 2, they're savaging Aria's wedding dress.  They're also drinking and becoming more rambling as the podcast goes on.  Like they just spent 2 minutes discussing the gender of Pigtunia.

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, mac123x said:

I'm on part 2, they're savaging Aria's wedding dress.  They're also drinking and becoming more rambling as the podcast goes on.  Like they just spent 2 minutes discussing the gender of Pigtunia.

As they should. That dress was awful. 

[mac123x]

They're incredibly detailed (translation:  obsessive) analysis did reveal one thing I didn't notice before.  In a flashback with Alex and Wren, Wren says "I created life for you!" meaning that he was complicit in the egg-fertilizing bullshit.  When I watched the show I just figured that Alex got a sample surreptitiously and Wren didn't know.  Okay, so he's even more awful that I thought.

Edited July 3, 2017 by mac123x

[mac123x]

I am enjoying them shitting all over the impossible time-line with the Wren / Alex off screen relationship.  Benji:  "I think my biggest criticism about I Marlene King is that she doesn't seem to respect established continuity."  Marco:  [laughing hysterically]

 

They're so drunk that there's a 5 minute gap at 1:38 in part 2 when they took a bathroom break but neglected to edit out the gap.

 

Also, if I never hear another sincere, non-sarcastic reference to the "straight white patriarchy" in a discussion about a fucking TV show I'll die happy.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, mac123x said:

They're incredibly detailed (translation:  obsessive) analysis did reveal one thing I didn't notice before.  In a flashback with Alex and Wren, Wren says "I created life for you!" meaning that he was complicit in the egg-fertilizing bullshit.  When I watched the show I just figured that Alex got a sample surreptitiously and Wren didn't know.  Okay, so he's even more awful that I thought.

I had to stop to watch teen mom. But. I'm on the second part. So far I agree with them about Ali's terrible hair -"I watched the wrap

part special and was surprised that some hair choices were not wigs"-and Arias awful wedding dress. Also love that they love drunk moms. Also on the what is this with the Liars next gen and Ali being like "let's murder Addison" in the first scene. Also they have kind of been making me like Addison? Like more then Emily and Alison. Also love that they are like "Bryon is way too chill about Ezra bailing on the wedding".

Edited July 4, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[mac123x]

"Aria left out 'in sickness and in health' in her vows.  I just want to point that out.  Does she know something we don't know?"

 

They're getting drunk on champagne.  I can't imagine a worst hangover.  Might as well drink rubbing alcohol.

 

I stopped with 10 min left, they were doing shout-outs for reviews they received on iTunes so fuck that. 

[mac123x]

For a palate cleanser, I'm listening to Cabernet and A podcast -- they hated it.  It's one of their "Off The Rails" podcast, so they have waaaaay too many people, and they're all hammer drunk.  But the disdain and annoyance is really entertaining.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

Also, if I never hear another sincere, non-sarcastic reference to the "straight white patriarchy" in a discussion about a fucking TV show I'll die happy.

So you don't think it's all Kenneth Di Laurentis's fault!?! Funnily enough, even Heather Hogan of Autostraddle had enough of blaming all the faults of the show on the patriarchy and started blaming the writers more. Of course, her recaps still include things like " There was never any question about who was going to get punished in Rosewood. Women only, and especially queer women." that make me wonder if we are watching the same show (I mean, the likes of  Ian, Nate, Noel, Wilden and Wren are just as dead as Charlotte, Maya, Shanna, etc.) but still. Sure, PLL has a myriad of problems related to the way it depicts women and gender roles but exaggeration like that are too much and honestly sometimes come across as sour grapes as to why, say, Hanna/Caleb gets more screen time than whoever Emily is dating this week. The female protagonists got a lot more screen time, so their stupid errors are more glaring but generally, men and women are equally clueless and pathetic in this show. For instance, it took Caleb the hacker something like six years to try to find the bugs and other tracking devices A had installed to spy on the liars.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Jack Shaftoe

[Chinspinner]

7 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

So you don't think it's all Kenneth Di Laurentis's fault!?! Funnily enough, even Heather Hogan of Autostraddle had enough of blaming all the faults of the show on the patriarchy and started blaming the writers more. Of course, her recaps still include things like " There was never any question about who was going to get punished in Rosewood. Women only, and especially queer women." that make me wonder if we are watching the same show (I mean, the likes of  Ian, Nate, Noel, Wilden and Wren are just as dead as Charlotte, Maya, Shanna, etc.) but still. Sure, PLL has a myriad of problems related to the way it depicts women and gender roles but exaggeration like that are too much and honestly sometimes come across as sour grapes as to why, say, Hanna/Caleb gets more screen time than whoever Emily is dating this week. Female protagonists get a lot more screen time, so their stupid errors are more glaring but generally, men and women are equally clueless and pathetic in this show. For instance, it took Caleb the hacker something like six years to try to find the bugs and other tracking devices A had installed to spy on the liars.

Fortunately I have not witnessed this discussion, but I agree that it would take a huge level of confirmation bias to assert that this show is a victim of the straight, white patriarchy. It is a victim of bad writing. This show is offensive to everyone of all denominations in its cluelessness, it does not discriminate.  

Edited July 4, 2017 by Chinspinner

[Froippi]

i'm actually suprised how popular Emison is on twitter I guess it caught me by suprised specially if you look at how poor the chemistry is for Emison compared to Haleb and Ezria.  Haleb and Ezria have had way more seasons to be able to build their chemistry than the whole Emison thing 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Froippi

[AftermathTV]

Reminds me of how a group of wiki people tried to claim PLL/Marlene was racist just because Shana/Lyndon were antagonists and Yvonne/Maya died. 

The show has killed far more straight white men and has two prominent leads that are diverse (Emily/Mona).

I understand that some creepy white men weren't punished (Ezra), but blame partially falls on the audience/network for that being condoned as a fairytale.

This show sends wrong messages over and over again, but the intent is like that of an innocent tween's fanfiction.

The PLL world will never represent reality, and therefore it's not a place to insert social justice arguments.

1 hour ago, Froippi said:

i'm actually suprised how popular Emison is on twitter I guess it caught me by suprised specially if you look at how poor the chemistry is for Emison compared to Haleb and Ezria.  Haleb and Ezria have had way more seasons to be able to build their chemistry the whole Emison thing 

Emison feels like a bunch of people just wanting to see two pretty people together (even though Paige obliterates Alison when it comes to being attractive, but then again I value intelligence), and it doesn't shock me at all that Twitter is that vapid.

[Froippi]

3 hours ago, AftermathTV said:

Emison feels like a bunch of people just wanting to see two pretty people together (even though Paige obliterates Alison when it comes to being attractive, but then again I value intelligence), and it doesn't shock me at all that Twitter is that vapid.

sorta of how I feel Paige was so much better for Emily heck she even had Alison open up about her feelings for Emily but Paige will never get the credit she deserves even though she did cause Alison to finally open up

[marinaalexis]

39 minutes ago, Froippi said:

sorta of how I feel Paige was so much better for Emily heck she even had Alison open up about her feelings for Emily but Paige will never get the credit she deserves even though she did cause Alison to finally open up

It's crazy to me how after everything Paige did in the last season, there are still so many fans who despise her and insist that she's crazy or obsessed with Emily. It's like it's not enough that Emily ends up with Alison - they have to invalidate everything that she once had with Paige. I think a lot of it spurns from jealousy and resentment. Sure, Emison is endgame, but Emily's main love interest throughout the course of the show was Paige, and that can't be taken away. That seems to drive people absolutely insane, so they're trying to undo it by tearing down Paige's character and making her into something she wasn't.

[Froippi]

38 minutes ago, marinaalexis said:

It's crazy to me how after everything Paige did in the last season, there are still so many fans who despise her and insist that she's crazy or obsessed with Emily. It's like it's not enough that Emily ends up with Alison - they have to invalidate everything that she once had with Paige. I think a lot of it spurns from jealousy and resentment. Sure, Emison is endgame, but Emily's main love interest throughout the course of the show was Paige, and that can't be taken away. That seems to drive people absolutely insane, so they're trying to undo it by tearing down Paige's character and making her into something she wasn't.

yea I can see how much more that scene between Paige and Alison meant now that is all over and she is engaged to Emily now its like how I felt with Ezra in 6B regardless how people felt about them Aria help Ezra heal over Nicole she was a friend first in 6B which what he needed not a relationship then it became a relationship later in season 7 episode 1 I also can understand why Ezra wanted to help Nicole not just throw her out like she didn't mean nothing to him and then the amount of patience Aria had with this whole Nicole situation idk you can go back and reflect on some this now that the series is done

Edited July 5, 2017 by Froippi

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, marinaalexis said:

It's crazy to me how after everything Paige did in the last season, there are still so many fans who despise her and insist that she's crazy or obsessed with Emily. It's like it's not enough that Emily ends up with Alison - they have to invalidate everything that she once had with Paige. I think a lot of it spurns from jealousy and resentment. Sure, Emison is endgame, but Emily's main love interest throughout the course of the show was Paige, and that can't be taken away. That seems to drive people absolutely insane, so they're trying to undo it by tearing down Paige's character and making her into something she wasn't.

Yeah. I've said my feelings on Emison. It bothers me a lot. It also bothers me that people who ship Emison and hate Paige forget that Alison knew Paige liked Emily and was using it as leverage. That's gross. 

And to me Ali will always be a manipulator in some ways, even as an adult. But whatever. Emison is endgame, yay! :sarcasm:

And yeah to me it's been weird watching Shay promote Emison so much throughout the course of the show. Paige was more of Emily's love interest throughout the series, I ageee with you, but shays been all about Emison since Sasha/Alison became a big part in the show in season 5. To the point where she and Sasha were promoting Emison tshirts on social media. That's how I knew Emison was always going to end up together, because of those moments. I did not expect them to do the whole Emily and Alison now have to get twins by having Ali impregnated by A with Emily's eggs and forcing them to be like "well now we can be together forever".

Edited July 5, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[SadieT]

8 hours ago, Froippi said:

i'm actually suprised how popular Emison is on twitter I guess it caught me by suprised specially if you look at how poor the chemistry is for Emison compared to Haleb and Ezria.  Haleb and Ezria have had way more seasons to be able to build their chemistry than the whole Emison thing 

Chemistry is subjective. Some people see it, some people don't. I know Haleb is hugely popular and people think Tyler and Ashley have great chemistry because they're so close but over the last couple of season, Hanna and Caleb seemed more like brother and sister to me than lovers. I just don't see any chemistry between them, maybe because they have been together so long and their relationship kind of grew old to me. I thought Caleb and Spencer had much more chemistry than Haleb because it was new and fresh. 

[Froippi]

2 minutes ago, SadieT said:

Chemistry is subjective. Some people see it, some people don't. I know Haleb is hugely popular and people think Tyler and Ashley have great chemistry because they're so close but over the last couple of season, Hanna and Caleb seemed more like brother and sister to me than lovers. I just don't see any chemistry between them, maybe because they have been together so long and their relationship kind of grew old to me. I thought Caleb and Spencer had much more chemistry than Haleb because it was new and fresh. 

that is probably true its like so many people thought Jason had better chemistry with Aria but I didn't see it 

[Mabinogia]

Hanna and Caleb had a nice, familiar chemistry to me. They weren't scorching hot but they did come across as best friends, which isn't a bad way to be in a relationship. For me Caleb and Spencer had that electric hot chemistry. There was just an energy between them.

Aria and Ezra never had any kind of chemistry to me. Normally I'd be all into the "forbidden" angle of their relationship. This being a TV show, I don't get too hung up on the teacher/student thing (though I hate that it was romanticized. It isn't romantic, but it can be sexy/hot, but with those two it was...nothing).

Never saw chemistry between Emily and Paige. I hate Paige. It has nothing to do with Allison, I just don't like the character. (Maybe because I'm not a fan of the actress and don't find her anything special). I do think Emily and Allison HAD chemistry, in that one flashback scene in the library. Since then, not so much. They should have left their relationship as just a sexy memory.

Chemistry is such a personal thing. It always fascinates me, who people click with. I do think the chemistry between the Liars was the strongest on the show. Sadly, after the first time jump that chemistry just seemed to fizzle, or maybe that was just my interest in the show. lol

[Froippi]

41 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Hanna and Caleb had a nice, familiar chemistry to me. They weren't scorching hot but they did come across as best friends, which isn't a bad way to be in a relationship. For me Caleb and Spencer had that electric hot chemistry. There was just an energy between them.

Aria and Ezra never had any kind of chemistry to me. Normally I'd be all into the "forbidden" angle of their relationship. This being a TV show, I don't get too hung up on the teacher/student thing (though I hate that it was romanticized. It isn't romantic, but it can be sexy/hot, but with those two it was...nothing).

Never saw chemistry between Emily and Paige. I hate Paige. It has nothing to do with Allison, I just don't like the character. (Maybe because I'm not a fan of the actress and don't find her anything special). I do think Emily and Allison HAD chemistry, in that one flashback scene in the library. Since then, not so much. They should have left their relationship as just a sexy memory.

Chemistry is such a personal thing. It always fascinates me, who people click with. I do think the chemistry between the Liars was the strongest on the show. Sadly, after the first time jump that chemistry just seemed to fizzle, or maybe that was just my interest in the show. lol

your always going to get different opinions on this its like How i felt Emision was the worst, then it goes Haleb, and i sitll think Lucy and Ian had the best out of those 3 I can't really comment on Spoby since it was never  a thing in season 7 just sex

[marinaalexis]

I used to think that Haleb had the best chemistry out of all the "main couples" (although that may just be because they were the only ones that didn't gross me out for a long time), but I've gotten a creepy, almost father/daughter relationship vibe from them practically since Caleb came back from Ravenswood, and especially since season six. He's always seemed overprotective to a possessive extent, and even though it was nice how concerned he was for Hanna's well-being after the dollhouse, it crossed a line for me. Putting a tracking device in her car to keep an eye on her is so controlling it's borderline emotional abuse, and all of his whispered conversations with Ashley about her just gave me the icky feeling that he wanted to have more of a parental role in Hanna's life than a purely romantic one. Yuck.

And then of course the Spaleb mess happened and turned him into a total douchebag, so I guess all of that is pretty irrelevant now. My mom watched the show with me and doesn't tend to care much about the characters, and even she commented on how gross his behavior was in this last episode.

[Froippi]

43 minutes ago, marinaalexis said:

I used to think that Haleb had the best chemistry out of all the "main couples" (although that may just be because they were the only ones that didn't gross me out for a long time), but I've gotten a creepy, almost father/daughter relationship vibe from them practically since Caleb came back from Ravenswood, and especially since season six. He's always seemed overprotective to a possessive extent, and even though it was nice how concerned he was for Hanna's well-being after the dollhouse, it crossed a line for me. Putting a tracking device in her car to keep an eye on her is so controlling it's borderline emotional abuse, and all of his whispered conversations with Ashley about her just gave me the icky feeling that he wanted to have more of a parental role in Hanna's life than a purely romantic one. Yuck.

And then of course the Spaleb mess happened and turned him into a total douchebag, so I guess all of that is pretty irrelevant now. My mom watched the show with me and doesn't tend to care much about the characters, and even she commented on how gross his behavior was in this last episode.

after the whole Spencer and Caleb relationship it was hard for me to take Haleb seriously anymore it was just to werid and ackward  I always thought it look werid or ackward if you go after your best friends ex boyfriend

Edited July 6, 2017 by Froippi

[SadieT]

8 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Never saw chemistry between Emily and Paige. I hate Paige. It has nothing to do with Allison, I just don't like the character. (Maybe because I'm not a fan of the actress and don't find her anything special). I do think Emily and Allison HAD chemistry, in that one flashback scene in the library. Since then, not so much. They should have left their relationship as just a sexy memory.

Chemistry is such a personal thing. It always fascinates me, who people click with. I do think the chemistry between the Liars was the strongest on the show. Sadly, after the first time jump that chemistry just seemed to fizzle, or maybe that was just my interest in the show. lol

Same for me re: Paige and Paily. I’ve never cared for the character and it had nothing to do with Alison, she was just a bit too intense for my liking. And I never saw a real connection between Paige and Emily because their relationship always felt incredibly one-sided to me.

Emison’s chemistry was definitely best in flashbacks which is odd when you consider how young Sasha was when they filmed those, but maybe that made her less inhibited in those scenes. 

I agree that the time-jump definitely hurt the group’s dynamic. I don’t know if it was just that they didn’t have the backdrop of high school to rely on, not that the liars ever actually went to class, but the structure of school forced them to be together and they were very much involved in each other’s lives. But when they came back together after the 5 year time jump, they had drifted apart to the point where it seemed they hardly saw each other or spoke during their time apart and they were all  keeping secrets again, which I guess was the point of the re-set, but it was kind of disappointing to see this incredibly close-knit group of girls fall apart like that and I don't know that they ever recovered.  

Edited July 6, 2017 by SadieT

[AftermathTV]

Paige was not too intense, she just had realistic problems she was grappling with.

One of the few girls on this show to have complexity. So of course most of the fandom hissed at that.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Yes, Paige was at most as intense as Spencer or Mona and those two are fan favourites. I find it funny that she was one of the few characters actually allowed to grow up and behave like an adult for the most because that was almost certainly a result of the writers neglecting her - if Emily/Paige had been endgame, I bet Paige would have been involved in plenty of ridiculously over the top drama with her characterization becoming a total mess.

Honestly, I think the reason Emily/Alison is so popular is the same as the reason for the popularity of Buffy/Spike or Fifty Shades of Stupid... I mean, Grey. Many people just love stories where the jerk "reforms" through love. Not my cup of tea but at least in this case Alison actually reformed rather than the writers merely paying lip service to that notion. Of course, this also made her a boring and arguably mostly pointless character but what can you do.

Furthermore, PLL suffered from the same problem that so many shows have with romantic relationships - they want to keep popular ships but they also want to have ship-related drama, so we get ridiculously contrived break-ups, followed by the couples getting back together. Again and again. At least we only got one love triangle involving two of the Liars.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Jack Shaftoe

[Mabinogia]

55 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Furthermore, PLL suffered from the same problem that so many shows have with romantic relationships - they want to keep popular ships but they also want to have ship-related drama, so we get ridiculously contrived break-ups, followed by the couples getting back together. Again and again. At least we only got one love triangle involving two of the Liars.

For me that is what killed the show. Since the show was supposed to be about a murder mystery, they could have had the couples in a good place, the SO's supportive of their respective liar, and the "drama" coming from the lies the Liars were being made to keep from their SOs. Instead we got so much stupid drama. The worst, for me, was poor Emily who wasn't allowed to have an actual SO because they were saving her for Allison but for some reason weren't willing to go there right away. The shipping is what sunk the show for me. As ridiculous as the mystery side was, some of it was fun. The relationships on this show were never fun.

[Chaos Theory]

This is so much not the show to go to for any kind of social justice message.  If you didn't figure that out the first season it's on you,  The teacher was going to get the student..,,he just was.    Honestly I thought the bravest thing the show did was make Ezra possibly A for awhile.  The show skyrocketed in my opinion for awhile there.  My own fault though.   I forgot that the tweeny shippers were never going to let anything that awesome happen.  

 

A lot of people never forgave Paige for the drowning thing.  They can forgive Ali for anything but a single act of anger has Paige cast as villian for eternity.   Honestly I thought Paige had some pretty awesome character growth through the show.   It was organic so much more organic then Alison.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

This is so much not the show to go to for any kind of social justice message.  If you didn't figure that out the first season it's on you,  The teacher was going to get the student..,,he just was.    Honestly I thought the bravest thing the show did was make Ezra possibly A for awhile.  The show skyrocketed in my opinion for awhile there.  My own fault though.   I forgot that the tweeny shippers were never going to let anything that awesome happen.  

 

A lot of people never forgave Paige for the drowning thing.  They can forgive Ali for anything but a single act of anger has Paige cast as villian for eternity.   Honestly I thought Paige had some pretty awesome character growth through the show.   It was organic so much more organic then Alison.

I think I'm going to take this, and the Paige/Emily/Alison discussion, to the Characters and Relationships thread, just to not get further off topic with this thread! 

[AftermathTV]

So many good finale digs

[WhosThatGirl]

That first video is hilarious and spot on. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I do not believe that MK planned out all the plotlines and killers in advance, BUT it's fun to see some of the quotes from previous seasons now that we know Mona killed Charlotte:

Emily: Think about it - all the people who could have killed Charlotte, they might have done it because they thought that's what we wanted.
Hanna: What kind of nut would think that?

Caleb: Do you believe [Mona]?
Spencer: I think it's the truth.
Caleb: It might be the truth, but you believe Mona? You believe why she did this?
Spencer: I don't think anybody knows why Mona does anything, including Mona.

Aria: Mona basically told you she was ready to kill Charlotte.
Emily: Yeah, but she didn't because Charlotte never showed up.
Spencer: Not guilty because the victim didn't show? That's setting the bar pretty low, Em.

Spencer: Mona's changed so many times, I doubt she even knows herself when she looks in the mirror.

Mona: That's everything you need to cover up a murder.

Mona: Do you trust me?
Hanna: Sometimes.

[WhosThatGirl]

I think Mona was planned into season 2. After that I think all episodes were pointing to Wren (and Melissa at times) being big A. Both when it ended up when Charlottle and the series finale. The fact that it was not either times  is annoying.  Because this whole thing doesn't make sense.  It's like months later you guys and nothing makes sense after season 2 with this show.

[SadieT]

On 8/1/2017 at 6:14 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I do not believe that MK planned out all the plotlines and killers in advance, BUT it's fun to see some of the quotes from previous seasons now that we know Mona killed Charlotte:

Emily: Think about it - all the people who could have killed Charlotte, they might have done it because they thought that's what we wanted.
Hanna: What kind of nut would think that?

Caleb: Do you believe [Mona]?
Spencer: I think it's the truth.
Caleb: It might be the truth, but you believe Mona? You believe why she did this?
Spencer: I don't think anybody knows why Mona does anything, including Mona.

Aria: Mona basically told you she was ready to kill Charlotte.
Emily: Yeah, but she didn't because Charlotte never showed up.
Spencer: Not guilty because the victim didn't show? That's setting the bar pretty low, Em.

Spencer: Mona's changed so many times, I doubt she even knows herself when she looks in the mirror.

Mona: That's everything you need to cover up a murder.

Mona: Do you trust me?
Hanna: Sometimes.

 

I always thought it was interesting that in 7x01 when the group was trying to save Hanna and voting on who they thought killed Charlotte, Mona votes for Spencer and not Alison like most of the others. Obviously she knew it wasn't Alison but she could have left it blank like Emily did or just hop on the bandwagon and throw Alison under the bus again but she chose Spencer, probably because she knew no one would take Spencer seriously as a suspect and also because Mona being Mona probably knew Spencer was going to pick her so she wanted to return the favor. 

[marinaalexis]

On 8/2/2017 at 10:24 PM, SadieT said:

I always thought it was interesting that in 7x01 when the group was trying to save Hanna and voting on who they thought killed Charlotte, Mona votes for Spencer and not Alison like most of the others. Obviously she knew it wasn't Alison but she could have left it blank like Emily did or just hop on the bandwagon and throw Alison under the bus again but she chose Spencer, probably because she knew no one would take Spencer seriously as a suspect and also because Mona being Mona probably knew Spencer was going to pick her so she wanted to return the favor. 

Maybe not canon, but I have to believe that Mona had repressed the memory of what happened that night and honestly didn't remember killing Charlotte, or else her behavior in 7x01 makes zero sense and is completely out of character. This is a girl who once confessed to a murder she had nothing to do with just so Hanna's mom wouldn't go to prison for it, but now she's fine to sit back and let Hanna potentially be killed over a murder she did commit? For anyone else maybe, but Hanna? No way.

Also the events of 7x19 make loads more sense if you watch it with that perspective.

[WhosThatGirl]

It's so much later but it bugs me that this idea which could have been hilariously awesomely insane ended up being such a bore. I can't get over it how boring they made this idea. Having evil twin just recount her life's history to Spencer was the most boring hour of tv I've ever seen. 

And the first hour of this hot mess was boring because nothing happend, except shipper stuff. Like no thanks who signed up to watch Emison make out and Ezria plan their wedding? Except for drunk moms, nothing was worth watching.

[marinaalexis]

11 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

It's so much later but it bugs me that this idea which could have been hilariously awesomely insane ended up being such a bore. I can't get over it how boring they made this idea. Having evil twin just recount her life's history to Spencer was the most boring hour of tv I've ever seen. 

It was an extremely dull way of revealing A.D. and it feels like they just took everything we hated about the Charlotte reveal and recycled it. Space-age, never-before-seen lair? Check. One of the Liars kidnapped? Check. A revealing herself and sitting down to recount her dramatic life story to that one Liar? Check. A being the secret, cast off, resentful sibling of one of the Liars? Check. 

It's like the writers just don't learn.

[DigitalCount]

I still can't believe that Charlotte's lair was so poorly received, and then the writers had Alex create the freaking Dharma Initiative under Rosewood. It's just mind-boggling.

[rho]

19 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

It's so much later but it bugs me that this idea which could have been hilariously awesomely insane ended up being such a bore. I can't get over it how boring they made this idea. Having evil twin just recount her life's history to Spencer was the most boring hour of tv I've ever seen. 

And the first hour of this hot mess was boring because nothing happend, except shipper stuff. Like no thanks who signed up to watch Emison make out and Ezria plan their wedding? Except for drunk moms, nothing was worth watching.

I'm not sold on the evil twin idea. I thought it was so unimaginative, especially since Mary Drake was ALSO an evil twin. Plus those awkward scenes where Spencer was acting out of character, only to learn it was really Alex??? I think the show put too much value on a shocking finale.

I hate the twincer concept but I think it could have played out a lot better if we knew about AD's identity in the first episode. Then the whole back half of the season plays like a thriller with Spencer trapped in the cellar for more than 20 minutes. As opposed to us getting 9 episodes of that fucking game (which I still don't understand) and then a finale full of retcon and exposition.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah the twin idea was stupid, to me it was stupid for the fact that everyone was adamant that none of the girls were going to be a twin. I swear there's a quote somewhere from something where MK and/or writers were like "no twins" for the liars. And then well look wht happened. Also Spencer's the last one who should have had a twin. Ever.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Spencer's the last one who should have had a twin. Ever.

Especially a twin with an accent.