Predictions for the FINAL Season

[SoMuchTV]

22 hours ago, Cardie said:

Since Canada has long been the escape plan, I assume some of those passports are Canadian.

 

22 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Undoubtedly.

But Canadian passports acquired through the KGB, most likely?  So not exactly a permanent solution?

[MisterBluxom]

7 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

I predict Claudia kills Paige to get revenge on Elizabeth and Henry turns on his parents ( either on purpose or inadvertently). Ultimately Stan is forced to let the Jennings’ go to save his career ( Phillip can spin it that Stan was aiding them all along) . Phillip and Elizabeth go on the lamb in search of a new way of life. 

Wow! That is the first time I've ever seen that prediction. I think that is a very clever prediction. I'd love to see that happen.

But judging from past experiences, I fear these writers are just not bold enough to conceive of this ending.

I congratulate you. But more than that, I would be ecstatic if it turns out to be true. I'd love that ending.

[sistermagpie]

48 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I wonder how long Henry will think of Stan as a friend if it clicks in Stan was not just making conversation in the car ride back to school. Or that his buddy is hunting his parents. He may not see him as a friend- as someone to trust-regardless of how he feels about his parents. 

And this is pretty personal for Stan. How much is he going to be willing to exploit his relationship with Henry to find his parents. If it comes to that. 

Yeah, I don't hold it against Stan what he's doing but he's spearheading his own personal investigation into Philip and Elizabeth as spies and there's nothing as of yet that suggests he's thought about Henry at all. Like I said, I don't have a problem with it, but that hardly makes him Henry's big buddy or ally in this--or surrogate father. I wouldn't expect Stan to act like Pastor Tim but Pastor Tim was actually motivated by caring about Paige and even if he'd decided to give the Jennings up he'd have considered her. (Of course I think there's more to it than that but that's part of it.) I've seen people often give credit to Stan for being the only adult who truly cares about Henry even when he's not thinking about him at all as he prepares to destroy his life. Again, not that I think Stan the FBI agent should be motivated by putting Henry over his life's calling but it's not like it's being presented as any sort of conflict for him. When it comes to outing the Jennings he seems to mostly be thinking of himself.

Edited May 25, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Erin9]

It’d be interesting if they pulled something off that no one really thought of. Like the episode title being a search term. 

There are so many ways they could go. 

Given what Tatiana said about Oleg to that guy, I figured Oleg would be killed before he got caught. He got caught. That scene was more about Tatiana revealing herself to be a hardliner leading up to her doing Elizabeth’s job. 

I’d have assumed Claudia would have killed Elizabeth after she “ruined everything.” Or at least tried to.  Or gotten some kind of revenge. She let her walk away. And I tend to think that’s it for Claudia. 

But the Jennings going in 4 different directions would not surprise me. 

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Given what Tatiana said about Oleg to that guy, I figured Oleg would be killed before he got caught. He got caught. That scene was more about Tatiana revealing herself to be a hardliner leading up to her doing Elizabeth’s job. 

Or just an ambitious agent. She might not have been motivated by taking a side so much as an opportunity to prove herself, having been derailed earlier.

[SunnyBeBe]

Anything is possible.  I recall how often so many people said that Martha was a dead lady, that she would NEVER be allowed to live and NO WAY that she would be allowed to escape to Russia, AND, look what happened.  So, I'm considering it all and trying to venture guesses, based on a number of factors. 

The main reason that I feel that Philip will die, is because he is the beloved character.  E, the hated character would be punished the most, if her husband is killed.  And, not many shows kill the children, who are main characters.  So, we'll see.  

(Recall in Dexter, the biggest killer, I've ever watched in a series, survived. Sadly, the beloved character, his sister, did not. AND the serial killer actually escaped justice. I would NEVER have guessed that. But, he had to live without his child. )

Edited May 25, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

The main reason that I feel that Philip will die, is because he is the beloved character.  E, the hated character would be punished the most, if her husband is killed.  And, not many shows kill the children, who are main characters.  So, we'll see. 

Also that Elizabeth has just played out and planned her heroic death for so long while taking Philip's survival for granted it seems like that's the only thing that wouldn't be a repeat.

But after this ep I could imagine her getting to die with Philip. That's just me. She gave up her old ideas about how her life was supposed to work this week so maybe she won't need to spend the rest of her life realizing she was wrong. Though I still think Elizabeth dying and Philip mourning her is a dud.

I don't think the show would care about killing one of the kids if that was best for the story. I don't predict it, but I don't think they wouldn't do it.

[Cardie]

53 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

But Canadian passports acquired through the KGB, most likely?  So not exactly a permanent solution?

No, but it gets them across the border to an airport. Do they have a fall back destination if they feel they cannot return to the USSR? Cuba? A non-Communist country with0out extradition to the US or USSR? As travel agents they can have pre-booked, open tickets.

[SunnyBeBe]

Maybe, the story about the Dexter ending is more attractive than I thought. So, Philip is killed by jumping off of a bridge to his death as he runs from the FBI, E escapes to Russia and she allows the kids to stay in the US, with Paige under the wing of RENEE. (wink.wink.) Henry gets scholarships and continues in school, until he graduates and begins college, working at the business of his friend's father.    

Edited May 25, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Erin9]

23 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Or just an ambitious agent. She might not have been motivated by taking a side so much as an opportunity to prove herself, having been derailed earlier.

Or that. But the scene was about her more than him as it turned out. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I don't hold it against Stan what he's doing but he's spearheading his own personal investigation into Philip and Elizabeth as spies and there's nothing as of yet that suggests he's thought about Henry at all. Like I said, I don't have a problem with it, but that hardly makes him Henry's big buddy or ally in this--or surrogate father. I wouldn't expect Stan to act like Pastor Tim but Pastor Tim was actually motivated by caring about Paige and even if he'd decided to give the Jennings up he'd have considered her. (Of course I think there's more to it than that but that's part of it.) I've seen people often give credit to Stan for being the only adult who truly cares about Henry even when he's not thinking about him at all as he prepares to destroy his life. Again, not that I think Stan the FBI agent should be motivated by putting Henry over his life's calling but it's not like it's being presented as any sort of conflict for him. When it comes to outing the Jennings he seems to mostly be thinking of himself.

Or, you know, he's thinking about the oath he took, and his country.

20 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Anything is possible.  I recall how often so many people said that Martha was a dead lady, that she would NEVER be allowed to live and NO WAY that she would be allowed to escape to Russia, AND, look what happened.  So, I'm considering it all and trying to venture guesses, based on a number of factors. 

The main reason that I feel that Philip will die, is because he is the beloved character.  E, the hated character would be punished the most, if her husband is killed.  And, not many shows kill the children, who are main characters.  So, we'll see.  

(Recall in Dexter, the biggest killer, I've ever watched in a series, survived. Sadly, the beloved character, his sister, did not. AND the serial killer actually escaped justice. I would NEVER have guessed that. But, he had to live without his child. )

Martha would be in prison for life or executed for treason if not for Philip.  NO one else in the KGB wanted to pull her from the field.  Philip forced the issue.  Elizabeth and Gabe honestly didn't give a shit if Martha was caught, they needed her in that office for the surveillance reports right then.  I still wonder if they would go to all that trouble to save her if it wasn't for the fact the virus already had an exfil plan, and especially because Martha had seen his real face.

We saw what happened to the other agent's wife, just murdered, her child stolen. Martha was damn lucky Gabe was their handler at that time, instead of Claudia.

3 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Or that. But the scene was about her more than him as it turned out. 

I still don't know if Tatiana has any idea about the coup or has a side in that conflict.  Claudia could have already doctored that tape and Elizabeth's report, so Tatiana's bosses may have agreed with Claudia to order Tatiana to use the cyanide gas gun.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Umbelina said:

Or, you know, he's thinking about the oath he took, and his country.

You mean that as opposed to himself? Absolutely--but I meant that where he did seem to show personal emotion it was more about his own relationship to the Jennings. The oath and he took and his country are also a motivation, of course. I don't think that Stan's meant to be acting solely out of personal feelings at all. But where there is a conflict with his personal feelings shown (like signs that he really really doesn't want his suspicions to be correct) it's not centered on worry for Henry.

[SunnyBeBe]

Did E turn in her reports yet? 

Edited May 25, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Umbelina]

20 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

You mean that as opposed to himself? Absolutely--but I meant that where he did seem to show personal emotion it was more about his own relationship to the Jennings. The oath and he took and his country are also a motivation, of course. I don't think that Stan's meant to be acting solely out of personal feelings at all. But where there is a conflict with his personal feelings shown (like signs that he really really doesn't want his suspicions to be correct) it's not centered on worry for Henry.

No, he's definitely not centered on Henry, for all he knows, Henry was aware and helping to con him too.  I'm sure he doubts that is true, but he has much bigger things on his mind, like national security, his job, the fact that he was personally conned and fooled for so many years, and yes, his own feelings of stupidity/betrayal as well.  Honestly, I think any agent would be the same way.

I do think he will care about Henry, but now?  That's a minor point at a time like this my dear.  /Rhett Butler

[SusanSunflower]

"Tricking" a minor into being responsible for the apprehension of his parents and sister is pretty serious ... particularly if information is obtained without counsel and child protective services and I think Henry is still a minor ... It would be a lousy thing to do, that I hope would pain Stan for the rest of his life .... "Hey Henry, thanks for the freebie, couldn't have done it without you" ...  

Henry's belief (that his parents are good-guys) will not go down quickly or without a fight.  Denial is powerful.  Stavos might believe the Travel Agency moved drugs or people and/or had similar criminal ties.  Russians spying for the KGB, prolly not. I'm hoping Henry takes the train to Fanieul Hall in Boston where he meets up with Paige and they both then take a long train ride to the Canadian border to meet up with P&E ....   If necessary, in the interim, tell Henry that Loan Sharks are after Phillip (Travel Agency Debt) and they need to flee those evil-doers.   

Edited May 26, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

No, he's definitely not centered on Henry, for all he knows, Henry was aware and helping to con him too.  I'm sure he doubts that is true, but he has much bigger things on his mind, like national security, his job, the fact that he was personally conned and fooled for so many years, and yes, his own feelings of stupidity/betrayal as well.  Honestly, I think any agent would be the same way.

I do think he will care about Henry, but now?  That's a minor point at a time like this my dear.  /Rhett Butler

Right, exactly. This is Stan's instinctive position - it would be OOC for him to be otherwise. And it's totally in keeping with the way he's been portrayed. I wouldn't be surprised if Stan is the person to tell the FBI to head them off at Henry's school. Again, using his personal relationship to the family against them--even using Henry as bait, or hoping to.

11 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

If necessary, in the interim, tell Henry that Loan Sharks are after Phillip (Travel Agency Debt) and they need to flee those evil-doers.   

This is what I would imagine Henry's first idea would be if Philip showed up and said he was in trouble and they needed to run away for a while right now so come on. He'd probably think, "Oh god, Dad, what stupid thing did you do to try to get money? I have friends whose dads got off on white collar crimes, can I help?"

Henry's image of Philip just must be so...incomplete.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:

"Tricking" a minor into being responsible for the apprehension of his parents and sister is pretty serious ... particularly if information is obtained without counsel and child protective services and I think Henry is still a minor ..

When said minor is the child of Russian espionage agents responsible for stealing state secrets and murdering FBI agents, those legal niceties aren't likely to be observed, especially in a race to apprehend the parents.

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Cardie said:

When said minor is the child of Russian espionage agents responsible for stealing state secrets and murdering FBI agents, those legal niceties aren't likely to be observed, especially in a race to apprehend the parents.

Also it's probably hard to prove that Stan tricked him. They've talked plenty of times and Stan's friends with his parents. He could easily just say this is something Henry mentioned to him at times and it got him thinking.

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

For a son who needs convincing ... it's weak "evidence" ... I don't think there's time to use Henry to wittingly catch P&E and p.   The red-alert evacuation siren has already been activated.  If P&E can't reach Henry, they will have to leave without him, but as I said before, I think if they could reach Henry they would, as they did with Jared, instruct him to take the train or bus (secretly) to some out of the way location to be picked up there ... not wait in New Hampshire (to be nabbed by the FBI) but to simply vanish NOW. 

I think getting Henry is going to be one of the trickier parts of their escape.  They know they need to move quickly so they don't really have time to Henry the truth.  He probably wouldn't go. And they need to get Henry on board with leaving school which, up until this point, he has been loathe to do.  I could see him leaving with P&E, thinking they're acting strange and then calling his confidant, Stan, just to talk about how weird they're being.

3 hours ago, Erin9 said:

I wonder how long Henry will think of Stan as a friend if it clicks in Stan was not just making conversation in the car ride back to school. Or that his buddy is hunting his parents. He may not see him as a friend- as someone to trust-regardless of how he feels about his parents.

Well Stan was asking a lot of questions in the car.  Not just about Henry's parents but about the parents of Henry's friend.  Henry's smart but I don't know that he'd absolutely leap to the conclusion that he was being interrogated. Stan could point his finger at other clues.  Besides, I think he could also point to the fact that it was strange that both of his parents went to Houston at Thanksgiving, leaving Henry behind, and that same weekend things went down in Chicago concerning an illegal.

1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:

"Tricking" a minor into being responsible for the apprehension of his parents and sister is pretty serious ... particularly if information is obtained without counsel and child protective services and I think Henry is still a minor ... It would be a lousy thing to do, that I hope would pain Stan for the rest of his life .... "Hey Henry, thanks for the freebie, couldn't have done it without you" ... 

All the conversation with Henry did was reignite Stan's suspicions.  It started Stan's investigation, true, but even in this latest episode, Stan didn't have much of anything. And he probably won't have anything concrete unless surveillance pictures come back showing Philip.

[Donder]

Putin for a cameo?

[kikaha]

I doubt Stan suspects Henry.  Mainly because Henry has been so open with him about P&E.  Spy Henry would not reveal such damning pieces of info about his comrades to an FBI agent. 

Stan's single most defining trait is that he is a US patriot.  His speech at Thanksgiving typifies his beliefs.  He's risked his life for his country, bled for it, believes in it heart and soul.  For him that towers above all else, including marriage and friendship.  Realizing how Philip has played him all these years -- how he has betrayed Stan and America -- must hit him like 6-ton semi.  I feel sure Stan is talking about the Jennings when he says "I'll kill em."

[Erin9]

1 hour ago, kikaha said:

 

Stan's single most defining trait is that he is a US patriot.  His speech at Thanksgiving typifies his beliefs.  He's risked his life for his country, bled for it, believes in it heart and soul.  For him that towers above all else, including marriage and friendship.  Realizing how Philip has played him all these years -- how he has betrayed Stan and America -- must hit him like 6-ton semi.  I feel sure Stan is talking about the Jennings when he says "I'll kill em."

Philip hasn’t betrayed America. He’s Russian.

I really don’t think he’s betrayed Stan either. Stan may feel betrayed, but Philip didn’t betray him. Philip was a Russian spy pretending to be American the day they met. And Philip didn’t move in next to a federal agent. A federal agent moved in next to him.

Maybe Stan thinks the whole relationship wasn’t real. I think it was as real as it could be. I understand being hurt over the lie though. Philip did play him to a point. But it wasn’t a betrayal imo. 

[sistermagpie]

17 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Maybe Stan thinks the whole relationship wasn’t real. I think it was as real as it could be. I understand being hurt over the lie though. Philip did play him to a point. But it wasn’t a betrayal imo. 

If Stan was really undercover he should understand that too.

Re: conversations on the ep thread I couldn't help but read the stuff about Stan's risks for his country and bleeding for it as not really as true as they are for most. It would fit with his undercover work, I guess, but we don't know the details of that. It would at least be taking a risk. But we've never actually seen him in great danger or risking his life or getting hurt. On the show he's been in a very safe position--and yet still managed to almost betray his country for Nina. He also went to Gaad's wife to get her blessing for refusing to try to turn Oleg. So while I agree at heart Stan proved he isn't a traitor, he's not always driven by that duty over all. He put Nina above everything plenty of times. Not just when he started to steal the plans for Echo for her (he didn't hand them over but he got as far as stealing them) but his whole plot with Zinada he hoped would get Nina back and he didn't much care about the American spies that were traded instead.

[Erin9]

38 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

If Stan was really undercover he should understand that too.

Re: conversations on the ep thread I couldn't help but read the stuff about Stan's risks for his country and bleeding for it as not really as true as they are for most. It would fit with his undercover work, I guess, but we don't know the details of that. It would at least be taking a risk. But we've never actually seen him in great danger or risking his life or getting hurt. On the show he's been in a very safe position--and yet still managed to almost betray his country for Nina. He also went to Gaad's wife to get her blessing for refusing to try to turn Oleg. So while I agree at heart Stan proved he isn't a traitor, he's not always driven by that duty over all. He put Nina above everything plenty of times. Not just when he started to steal the plans for Echo for her (he didn't hand them over but he got as far as stealing them) but his whole plot with Zinada he hoped would get Nina back and he didn't much care about the American spies that were traded instead.

 

Yes- Stan should understand. 

Agreed. I’ve never seen Stan risk much of anything. I’ve never worried about his life. He’s always seemed pretty safe. It’s a problem I have when you see other characters taking real risks....and then there’s Stan. Of course, Stan also has stayed in his own country the whole time. Less risk to begin with. 

Very good point. Stan is a patriot. But he does get emotionally involved with people. He’s no where near as duty bound as Gaad was. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Erin9

[sistermagpie]

34 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Agreed. I’ve never seen Stan risk much of anything. I’ve never worried about his life. He’s always seemed pretty safe. It’s a problem I have when you see other characters taking real risks....and then there’s Stan. Of course, Stan also has stayed in his own country the whole time. Less risk to begin with. 

 

34 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Very good point. Stan is a patriot. But he does get emotionally involved with people. He’s no where near as duty bound as Gaad was. 

I forgot to mention something that occurred to me reading your post, which was that conversation that Stan and Gaad had at one point about Vietnam. Stan says something about how he didn't go because maybe he was in training for the Bureau? I can't remember what reason he gave--maybe just in college. Whatever he says Gaad says that the same was true for him...but he went anyway. There's an obvious moment there of he guy who thought it was his duty to be a soldier and the guy who didn't. Stan seems a tad awkward--he's not Pastor Tim who is proud of his open refusal to fight a war he deemed unjust. Stan seems more like the guy who was just happy he didn't get drafted and is now facing a guy who thinks that makes him a bit of a wimp.

At the time I just took it as a realistic touch about the US at that time for anybody that age. It gave us a little glimpse into Gaad (the kind of thing we don't get for Renee...) who would even turn out to have a Vietnamese wife (I don't think we know if he met her during the war or whatever) and seemed to be Buddhist. But it also, I think, can't help but tie into that whole question of levels of service etc.

[companionenvy]

Upthread,someone asked who was going to take Chekhov's cyanide pill. Can I go for a dark horse and predict Paige? 

We've established that Paige isn't afraid of death, only of being alone. That's a line that seems clearly to be foreshadowing. The most obvious conclusion is that they're going for the irony factor and that winding up alone is exactly what happens to Paige, but that's not the only place to take it. One possibility is that she chooses death over being alone - and, possibly, Elizabeth allows her to make that choice by giving her the pill.

So, what the hell, here's my prediction: Philip winds up dead, maybe even killed by Stan. Elizabeth and Paige are clearly about to be taken into custody, and Elizabeth gives Paige the cyanide pill. Elizabeth winds up in jail. Bonus points if our final shot of her is her in a cell, drawing. 

No idea what happens to Henry, but I want to add that while I agree that, in spite of everything, he'd have to be pretty cold-blooded to immediately turn on his parents (i.e, they come to NH, tell him they're Russian spies on the run and he promptly calls Stan/the police), I could absolutely see him cooperating if Stan got to him first, and wouldn't blame him for it.  Unlike Paige, he wouldn't in that case be getting a sugar-coated narrative, but would be confronted by evidence that his parents were serial murderers in the context of a conversation with a trusted adult, at a point where he's already been thinking about his parents' pattern of letting him down in strange ways. 

[kikaha]

2 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Philip hasn’t betrayed America. He’s Russian.

I really don’t think he’s betrayed Stan either. Stan may feel betrayed, but Philip didn’t betray him. Philip was a Russian spy pretending to be American the day they met. And Philip didn’t move in next to a federal agent. A federal agent moved in next to him.

Maybe Stan thinks the whole relationship wasn’t real. I think it was as real as it could be. I understand being hurt over the lie though. Philip did play him to a point. But it wasn’t a betrayal imo. 

Here's the first definition of 'betrayal' in Dictionary.com: "to deliver or expose to an enemy by treachery or disloyalty."  Philip's whole purpose is to expose the US to its enemy by treachery.  i.e. 'betrayal' sums up perfectly Philip's mission, actions and life in the US.  However much he liked Stan -- and I believe his feelings were genuine -- Stan was not immune from Philip's overriding purpose. 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, kikaha said:

Here's the first definition of 'betrayal' in Dictionary.com: "to deliver or expose to an enemy by treachery or disloyalty."  Philip's whole purpose is to expose the US to its enemy by treachery.  i.e. 'betrayal' sums up perfectly Philip's mission, actions and life in the US.  However much he liked Stan -- and I believe his feelings were genuine -- Stan was not immune from Philip's overriding purpose. 

But I don't even think Stan would think of Philip as betraying the US to the enemy. The revelation here isn't that Philip betrayed the US to the enemy it's that Philip *is* the enemy. Has been all along. Betrayal assumes you're supposed to be trusted and Philip wasn't.

[Umbelina]

This show doesn't really follow Chechov's rules.  Martha's gun never came into play.  (except as a motivator for Martha's to leave Gabe's house)

That said, I can see a modified Romeo and Juliet situation playing out (where this time, the "Juliet" really is dead.) 

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That said, I can see a modified Romeo and Juliet situation playing out (where this time, the "Juliet" really is dead.) 

I've been kind of hoping for that ever since that secret wedding...

[SunnyBeBe]

But, with children alive, would the surviving parent bite the dust on purpose, knowing they are leaving two children parentless? 

[Umbelina]

Also, Mo's "tears and music" really says nothing.

• This show always has music.  It also loves it's montages.
• Happy or Sad outcome could both produce tears.

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

But, with children alive, would the surviving parent bite the dust on purpose, knowing they are leaving two children parentless? 

Depends on the situation. It might be better for the kids for them to be dead, especially since they might be separated regardless.

Also, of course, they can get themselves killed without actually committing suicide outright.

[kikaha]

2 hours ago, Erin9 said:

 

Yes- Stan should understand. 

Agreed. I’ve never seen Stan risk much of anything.

Stan spent several years undercover in a white supremacist org.  Every second there was a risk: blow his cover and he's dead in a New York minute. 

[Erin9]

19 minutes ago, kikaha said:

Stan spent several years undercover in a white supremacist org.  Every second there was a risk: blow his cover and he's dead in a New York minute. 

That was pre show. I’ve never seen him risk much of anything in the 6 seasons of this show. I’ve seen Oleg, Philip and Elizabeth take tons of risks. 

[kikaha]

My point was and is that Stan has risked his life for his nation.  Are you questioning that? 

[Erin9]

46 minutes ago, kikaha said:

My point was and is that Stan has risked his life for his nation.  Are you questioning that? 

Obviously he has. But it’s not a primary character trait that I associate with him as I do with Philip, Elizabeth, and Oleg. In the context of the 6 seasons of this show- he’s never had much to lose. He’s never risked much. His passion for his beliefs and what he’ll do for them is not comparable imo. 

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Obviously he has. But it’s not a primary character trait that I associate with him as I do with Philip, Elizabeth, and Oleg. In the context of the 6 seasons of this show- he’s never had much to lose. He’s never risked much. His passion for his beliefs and what he’ll do for them is not comparable imo. 

Also this might seem like a nitpick but when people say "for his country" they usually mean stuff like national defense. We don't know if Stan saw his undercover work as primarily being about protecting his country. Catching bank robbers and white supremists can be more about justice than any particular country. That's partly why the Gaad/Stan conversation seems significant, especially given the time period when Elizabeth and Philip grew up.

Doesn't change the risk but Stan was only specifically in the job of protecting the country when he started the show, at which point he proved that he's deep down an American and no traitor, but has also put other things above that prime directive at times. He was disliked in his office for a while because of stuff related to that.

[BingeyKohan]

I’m actually a little excited to see how Stan behaves next week. He’s not totally at the center of the investigation. He’s more an extra set of hands with a vested interest. (They don’t know quite how vested.) That gives him some freedom to maneuver. He’s the one who can really think, what would Phil do? It’s on his mind they abandoned their kid recently, over Thanksgiving. He’s going to zig where other agents zag, I think. He could be the only one who knows they likely won’t go to New Hampshire precisely because they’ll be expected to. I’m not sure how he’d figure out where they would go, unless Oleg has some insight. But he may be the only one in position where they end up.

[missy jo]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:48 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder how many minutes they will devote to convincing Henry to leave.  He's a pretty headstrong young man.  Plus, he LOVES his school.  Why in the world would he agree to take off, on the spot, without any real reason?  The only thing that I can think of is that Paige lies and says that one their parents is hurt and they need him immediately. But, then, when he sees they are okay, he would bolt.  So, I just don't get how they really intend to pull this off.  I wonder now if they will call Henry, say their goodbyes and head for the border instead of getting Henry. 

I agree. I just can't fathom how they're going to pull this off with Henry while being true to the character and making sense. 

[BingeyKohan]

Since it set the tone for the season I was just looking back over the lyrics for ‘Don’t Dream It’s Over.’ The lines you’ll never see the end of the road while you’re traveling with me seem very poignant now. As she looks around at her family, it feels like that would be Elizabeth’s point of view on things.

Another I've been thinking about, not referenced on the show: From Joan Didion's A Book of Common Prayer, about the doomed Charlotte Douglas. "She lost one child to 'history' and another to 'complications.'"

I think it will apply to one or the other of the Jennings (which I guess is a way of saying I fear only one gets out alive). And losing a child doesn't mean the child has died. Philip has two sons, and could lose both, one to history (Mischa), another to complications (Henry). Elizabeth could lose one child to history (Paige, to the history she's evoked in her training, and their fraught history of lies), and another to complications (Henry, to the impossibility of reconciling his American lifestyle with however Elizabeth ends up living). I'm sad for this family we've come to care about.

Edited May 27, 2018 by BingeyKohan

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I've been kind of hoping for that ever since that secret wedding...

In Father Andrei Laurence's cell. :) If the FBI got to Henry first and something happened to Paige along the way, I could see a P&E murder-suicide, with Stan arriving only to find a pile of bodies.

[Loandbehold]

Re whether we've ever seen Stan put his life at risk, he did stop an assassination. Also, he blackmailed the FBI to protect Oleg. From one perspective, that was for the good of the country. Oleg had provided important information and Stan was protecting a U.S. asset. Had the FBI called him on it and Stan went through with his threat, he would have wound up in jail for life. Or possibly executed. It's true that, unlike Philip and Elizabeth, his life hasn't been in danger on a daily basis we have seen him in serious danger. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Loandbehold said:

Re whether we've ever seen Stan put his life at risk, he did stop an assassination. Also, he blackmailed the FBI to protect Oleg. From one perspective, that was for the good of the country. Oleg had provided important information and Stan was protecting a U.S. asset. Had the FBI called him on it and Stan went through with his threat, he would have wound up in jail for life. Or possibly executed. It's true that, unlike Philip and Elizabeth, his life hasn't been in danger on a daily basis we have seen him in serious danger. 

I wouldn't actually define either of those things that way. I didn't really ever feel Stan's life was endanger when he was stopping the assassination. He was armed and had the jump on the guy--he was set up to get an easy win by the Soviets. Protecting Oleg wasn't for the good of the country at all. It was Stan putting his personal morality above that. The CIA wanted to make Oleg and asset and Stan wouldn't let them do it because he thought it would make him terrible on a personal level. His threat to the FBI was certainly gutsy but there never seemed to be any danger of jail--definitely not execution. He was really never in that level of danger. He actually lost nothing from the gambit. He took a similar risk when working with Oleg the first time--there too it was a risk that was more about his personal desires and beliefs than the country, even though it ironically got misinterpreted that way by the government and got him a promotion.

Edited May 27, 2018 by sistermagpie

[BingeyKohan]

Predictions: bold, maybe final (likely wrong)

• Renee gets apprehended trying to approach one of the garages under surveillance. She tries to explain it away but the combo of being married to a now suspicious Renee and the obviously suspicious Jennings are enough to get Stan off the case. As in barred from it. So any steps to reach the Jennings himself (to talk them into surrendering) are extrajudicial.
• The final choices come down to: is disappointing your kid a fate worse than death? The scales haven’t all fallen from Paige’s eyes. One way they could is by a parent (likely Philip) following the impulse to kill Stan, right in front of her. He does, they’re free, but lose Paige and Henry forever. 

[hellmouse]

59 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Renee gets apprehended trying to approach one of the garages under surveillance. She tries to explain it away but the combo of being married to a now suspicious Renee and the obviously suspicious Jennings are enough to get Stan off the case. As in barred from it. So any steps to reach the Jennings himself (to talk them into surrendering) are extrajudicial.

This is probably too crazy but what if Elizabeth calls Renee and asks her to pick them up at one of those garages. She could say she has car trouble and needs a ride. And then they could observe from a distance to see if the garages are really being watched by the FBI. (Obviously they wouldn't really want to be picked up by Renee; it would be a trap.)

Edited May 27, 2018 by hellmouse

[SunnyBeBe]

But, why do P and E need to get to a garage now? E has the money, passports, plates and P has a car or could steal one.  Wouldn't he be afraid to drive one from a tainted garage at this point? Even if they don't see any surveillance, they could have already photographed the vehicles inside and put a BOLO as soon as the Jenningses hit the road. 

[hellmouse]

Just now, SunnyBeBe said:

But, why do P and E need to get to a garage now? E has the money, passports, plates and P has a car or could steal one.  Wouldn't he be afraid to drive one from a tainted garage at this point? Even if they don't see any surveillance, they could have already photographed the vehicles inside and put a BOLO as soon as the Jenningses hit the road. 

That's why it's a crazy idea. They don't need to get to a garage and also it would be silly to spend any time luring Renee to a garage. But it would get Renee's jeep to a suspicious location! 

Maybe Elizabeth steals Renee's jeep and drives it somewhere before meeting Philip in a different location.

Basically I'm losing my mind, lol. 

[SunnyBeBe]

9 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

That's why it's a crazy idea. They don't need to get to a garage and also it would be silly to spend any time luring Renee to a garage. But it would get Renee's jeep to a suspicious location! 

Maybe Elizabeth steals Renee's jeep and drives it somewhere before meeting Philip in a different location.

Basically I'm losing my mind, lol. 

I know the feeling.  I think that I'm overthinking this.  I admit that I have been told on more than one occasion that I think too much. lol  I don't think it was a compliment though. lol

[BingeyKohan]

I think a lot of us are probably correct on guessing storytelling intent but few of us (especially not me because my guesses tend to be very specific) are right on execution. 

For example I predicted in Jennings, Elizabeth we would see Elizabeth watching Nesterenko (easy guess) and that’d we’d see her see an assassin approach (correct). I predicted it would be Tuan (way wrong). But I feel I was somewhat right on storytelling intent, since even if not Tuan I guessed for dramatic impact the assassin would be someone we (viewers) recognized on sight. I don’t think Tatiana would have occurred to me, though.

My latest too specific to be viable theory is that the reason the writers had Stan and Henry talk about Aunt Helen is that the Jennings will go there rather than New Hampshire, and Stan will realize that and be able to track them somehow. Doesn’t hold up much under scrutiny but the storytelling intent behind it is I don’t see Stan being just one of a bunch of agents getting to them at the same time. He needs special time alone with them so the story has to make that work somehow.