S01.E06: A Murder Of Gods

[Wryly]

On 6/7/2017 at 11:18 AM, jeansheridan said:

Also I think some of Shadow's tension came obviously from being in an all white town full of militant gun owners who were eyeballing him.  And he is still woozy from blood loss.  And a killer tree.  It has only been a week since prison.  I would be worried if he was chill.  But Ricky Whittle doesn't do rattled that well.  A freaked out Shadow isn't very "cool".  He seems a little dorky quite honestly.   I find it charming.

I don't expect Shadow to be chill all the time. I just expect his disbelief to diminish with each supernatural experience, and it doesn't seem to.

As for his freakout after Vulcan's murder, you're definitely right. I just didn't believe the actor when he was sputtering and gasping. I felt it was questionable directing as well. That reaction was over the top, given the context. Shadow acted like Wednesday had just murdered a girl scout or a senator or something. Not a sinister pagan god who had just betrayed them to deadly enemies.

[jeansheridan]

It was an awkward scene all around.  Ian McShane struggled to swing the sword, the speed of Vulcan falling, Shadow just standing there, cheap looking set.  

But Ricky was great in the scene when Vulcan pulled out his gun during their drinks.  You can see him tense up and realize he is behind Wednesday so not much protection.  So he can be subtle.  

[theatremouse]

3 hours ago, Wryly said:

I don't expect Shadow to be chill all the time. I just expect his disbelief to diminish with each supernatural experience, and it doesn't seem to.

I think there are two sorts of reasonable reactions. One is as you describe, the more previously-thought-impossible stuff he sees, the less each new thing surprises him. This would fall into a "nothing shocks me any more" past it kind of energy. Alternately, I also think it makes sense that he might experience whatever latest shenanigans, and think "surely that's the peak of it" and then when something tops it, he's gobsmacked again.

For example, and I admit this is not the best analogy, but someone who: gets a flat tire on the way to work, then gets fired, then gets home thinking "surely this day can't get any worse" and finds out grandma died. Some people might be numb by then and think "of course because today is horrible" and others might be even more crushed because the pain just keeps coming. I think Shadow has been more like the latter.

[Wryly]

10 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

I think there are two sorts of reasonable reactions. One is as you describe, the more previously-thought-impossible stuff he sees, the less each new thing surprises him. This would fall into a "nothing shocks me any more" past it kind of energy. Alternately, I also think it makes sense that he might experience whatever latest shenanigans, and think "surely that's the peak of it" and then when something tops it, he's gobsmacked again.

For example, and I admit this is not the best analogy, but someone who: gets a flat tire on the way to work, then gets fired, then gets home thinking "surely this day can't get any worse" and finds out grandma died. Some people might be numb by then and think "of course because today is horrible" and others might be even more crushed because the pain just keeps coming. I think Shadow has been more like the latter.

How many times does the bar have to be raised before he realizes the crazy train ain't gonna stop?

[ganesh]

He watched a guy get his head cut off shortly after being taunted about being lynched. I think he's entitled to piss himself. 

[Drogo]

Shadow is a thief, not a killer.  His realistic reaction to the blood sacrifice 10 feet from him was a refreshing change from what most shows/movies do with a strong protagonist. 

[ganesh]

Also he's dealing with his dead wife who was cheating on him but isn't dead. He's got a lot on his plate. 

[DarkRaichu]

48 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Shadow is a thief, not a killer.  His realistic reaction to the blood sacrifice 10 feet from him was a refreshing change from what most shows/movies do with a strong protagonist. 

He is not even that good of a thief.  He got busted whenever we saw him do anything shady. 

[BuddhaBelly]

On 6/7/2017 at 11:07 PM, Arynm said:

I wonder if we will ever see the big guy, Aka: GOD. I would assume that he is really the most powerful, but who would be be aligned with? He seems to me he would be an old God, but I just don't know. 

 

But which God? Judaic G_d, Christian God (and man does it get varied in there when thinking about denomination then New Testament v Old a), Islamic God/Allah? We know there are multiple Jesuses, so I'm assuming the Abrahamic religions God must be multiple too. 

[Viv]

On 6/5/2017 at 9:25 AM, BuddhaBelly said:

I don't think he was looking at Laura with longing but Salim. Salim was praying, worshiping a god that has many followers, a god that isn't struggling to maintain his power and won't soon be forgotten. Mad Sweeney is largely forgotten, no one prays to him, no one sets out altars for him. He has very little power.

I really thought he was looking at Laura as well...especially because he gave her a similar look right after her visit to her mom's house, when she got in the cab and lit a cigarette. It was a look of curiosity mixed with...IDK, longing, as the other comment said? And I think a big reason for this has to do with what we'll see in the next episode...

Spoiler

when we see his backstory with Essie Trogowan, who is the spitting image of Laura (and played by Emily Browning, no less). 

[Bruinsfan]

On 6/7/2017 at 11:57 PM, jeansheridan said:

Jesus died too.  But it is hard to fully kill a god really.  Baulder is the only one in Norse mythology and some of the Titans died.  Zeus ate his father.  

Kind of the other way around on that last, Zeus' father ate all his other siblings but got tricked into eating a stone instead of Zeus. Of course, when he was grown he made dear old Dad upchuck his brothers and sisters and they popped out still alive, so supporting your point.

10 hours ago, BuddhaBelly said:

But which God? Judaic G_d, Christian God (and man does it get varied in there when thinking about denomination then New Testament v Old a), Islamic God/Allah? We know there are multiple Jesuses, so I'm assuming the Abrahamic religions God must be multiple too. 

Maybe there's a certain critical mass of differing interpretations of a god that divide it into multiple versions to represent the different aspects? It would stand to reason that someone like Yahweh/Jesus/Allah, whose sects and denominations are so populous and disagree about so much, would be particularly affected by that whereas little-known gods would have a more stable singular identity.

[ganesh]

If they go that route and we meet the three of them, I would love it if they're trapped into constantly arguing with one another, so none of the other gods even bother with them. 

[Silly Angel]

I was struck by the use of fife and drum music during the opening scene in Vulcan, and thought of the rock critic and music historian Robert Palmer’s discussion of how martial fife and drum morphed into the earliest, most basic version of the blues. It’s probably more than the show wanted to get into, but the flat, stark, dumb portrayal of Murrica-first gun nuts soaked in Nazi imagery was such a waste. It could have been a fine opportunity to highlight the threat of the new gods at old America’s doorstep, the transmutation of the music of war, fear, bloodshed and triumph into the music of grief and sorrow and, in the end, a celebration of life and strength in the face of adversity. But as depicted in Vulcan, the folks were just…assholes. What a waste.

I actually really liked the Coming to America sequence. I saw that Jesus as the Jesus of the Crossings, and it was a reminder that among the gods we “recognize,” who are most active in our Western daily lives, Jesus has as many avatars as many of the pantheistic gods of old. I thought it was rather beautiful. They brought this god with them, and the Jesus of the Crossings is alive in American society in many ways still. Then again, I’d watch a whole series of Coming to America stories.

Which reminds me—Salim! Love him. And I love Mad Sweeney, despite the fact that he’s gross. They both want something, and Salim seems to have such a rich inner life. I hated Dead Wife for tuning him out, the selfish bitch. What does she want? Shadow? She cheated on him. To be resurrected? She tried to kill herself. She’s a bitchy nothing of a character, and I hate her calling Shadow “puppy”; it sounds so demeaning and snotty. (Didn’t hate it in the book—I hope that’s not too booky to say.)

Overall, I didn’t hate the episode but I had to watch it in sections over three days because the goddamn John Zorn-style skronky saxophone throughout the first third and the Dramatic Kettledrums and Timpani of Doom over the rest of it just about drove me to throw my laptop into the fireplace. Tone down the music, folks! This is not Hannibal!

[Dev F]

3 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

I was struck by the use of fife and drum music during the opening scene in Vulcan, and thought of the rock critic and music historian Robert Palmer’s discussion of how martial fife and drum morphed into the earliest, most basic version of the blues. It’s probably more than the show wanted to get into, but the flat, stark, dumb portrayal of Murrica-first gun nuts soaked in Nazi imagery was such a waste. It could have been a fine opportunity to highlight the threat of the new gods at old America’s doorstep, the transmutation of the music of war, fear, bloodshed and triumph into the music of grief and sorrow and, in the end, a celebration of life and strength in the face of adversity. But as depicted in Vulcan, the folks were just…assholes. What a waste.

Yep. It's a shame that in a show that's supposed to be about discovering the neglected corners and underappreciated cultures of this nation, they treated this particular group with such incurious contempt. I mean, I'm as suspicious of gun culture as your average middle-class urban liberal, but what's the point of even broaching the subject if you're just going to wag your finger at a straw man?

As I mentioned in the book spoiler thread, even if you account for the veneer of fantasy, Second Amendment devotees aren't usually uniform-wearing conformists who fire guns wildly into the air in tribute to people who die in industrial accidents. And it seems to me that the episode's central notion of a gun itself as a sacred object, the focus of primal awe and fear, is really more common among people who aren't gun owners. Gun nuts, in my admittedly limited experience, tend to view firearms more practically, as cool hardware or valuable collectibles. They may have outsize faith in the protective value and moral virtue of carrying weapons, but that's not the same as fetishizing the weapons themselves.

[ganesh]

I don't really have a problem with the show doing an episode about fetishizing guns. When there's places where you can bring guns into bars and churches in real life, it's a fair point for a tv show.

[jeansheridan]

13 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Kind of the other way around on that last, Zeus' father ate all his other siblings but got tricked into eating a stone instead of Zeus.

Thank you.  You corrected me so nicely.  I totally forgot my Edith Hamilton.  So basically nobody dies just like in Percy Jackson. Except for the humans.  Although when you think about certain humans like Odysseus,  Moses, King Arthur, they are such legends doesn't that make them potentially god-like?  Well I guess nobody worships them.  Or sacrifices to them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Orlando Jones, Ian McShane, Corbin Bernsen, Bryan Fuller, and Michael Green discuss S1.E6 with Marc Snetiker of Entertainment Weekly:

[starri]

I was traveling this past week, and only got caught up this afternoon.

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said, so I'll just say this:  Don't you just look at Salim and want to hug him?

[rollacoaster]

I was disappointed that the Jesus in the opening wasn't able to offer more protection to the people. Only one family seemed to escape the massacre; was it because their faith was stronger than the others? 

Also disappointing: that Wednesday did not notice his bodyguard was bleeding out. 

The irony of Mad Sweeney's endless yapping about Salim's yapping.  

The Vulcan factory, with the upbeat song playing, initially reminded me of "Everything is Awesome" scene from The Lego Movie.  

Vulcan sure was shitty to Shadow.  Shadow kept looking at Wednesday like, "Dude, let's GO!" And Wednesday was all, "Be cool." He had already taken in all the clues, and had planned his next move. A cagey trickster at his best. I think that Shadow's over the top reaction to Vulcan's beheading was, in a way, a release of tension. He was really stressed the entire time, plus, still suffering from blood-loss and maybe shock. 

Laura, Mad Sweeney and Salim/Not Salim are an awesome trio! I enjoyed the writing for this section very much. Mad's comments were crass, but, that's who that character is.  I like how Salim/Not Salim and Laura's relationship is developing. They could be positive influences on each other. Mad Sweeney is the asshole third wheel. Interesting how Salim took Mad being a leprechaun and Laura being dead in stride. 

1 minute ago, starri said:

Don't you just look at Salim and want to hug him?

YES! He has the most sensitive, soulful eyes!

[tennisgurl]

So, something just occurred to me. Maybe this episode isn't so much "Guns are bad mmmmkay" so much as "worshiping guns are bad, especially in isolation". After all, we see sweet lovable Salim apparently has a gun, which he pulled on Laura and Mad Sweeny when they were stealing his cab. Maybe there was something there? I don't know, just looking for nuance where there probably isn't much. I think the reason Vulcan seemed so weird to me was because I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew TONS of people with guns, especially for hunting. Nobody worshipped them, they just shot stuff so they could brag about how good of a shot they were. Granted, it was never something I was interested in, and the town of Vulcan seems more of an allegory for an insular society, so maybe, again, I'm either reading too much or not enough into this. 

[trickster721]

Maybe the point was to avoid angry letters by creating a scenario that no real gun enthusiast could possibly identify with.

[yagathai]

Oh, it just struck me -- so far, Shadow has been hung from a tree like the Hanged Man and also Odin, who hung from Yggdrasil, and he's been speared in the side like Christ. Any other iconic godlike injuries coming his way? A crown of thorns? A maimed leg? A cut Achilles tendon?

[ganesh]

Whoa. #MindBlown nice work

That furthers my theory that he's going to be the physical manifestation of the Buffalo god. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by ganesh

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Whoa. #MindBlown nice work

That furthers my theory that he's going to be the physical manifestation of the Buffalo god. 

It's certainly possible, they kind of never explored it. Usually the "coming to america" vignettes are used to explore gods we know/being introduced to.  This one was very vague in that we've never explored the Buffalo god or even the old Mammoth god (one in the same?)

[PreBabylonia]

I really really hated the recap. Easily the worst I've ever read on this site. 

I really enjoyed this one, in fact, I've been entertained/intrigued by every episode.

Edited June 15, 2017 by PreBabylonia
Ranted too much about the recapper.