Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[glowbug]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

The full judgement against NCW has been linked to in the WOTW comment section. NCW is all six episodes.

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/interim-award-and-chart-c-wm.pdf

It looks like he is in all 6 episodes. It’s confusing because they list 4 episodes in season 8 at the top right under season 7 and then at the bottom there are two additional episodes listed for season 8. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by glowbug

[WindyNights]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

D&D met with Martin in years ago and said that they laid the groundwork for the main characters to have the same end as they do in the final book although how they will get there will be different. Until D&D say otherwise, I expect this will be case. 

D & D have said otherwise recently.

Specificallty, they said too many things have been changed to get to the same ending as GRRM's and that they checked with Martin to see how their idea of the ending meshed with his. You'll definitely large elements of GRRM's ending in there but you'll also see large amounts of D & D's added parts.

[Eyes High]

7 hours ago, glowbug said:

It looks like he is in all 6 episodes. It’s confusing because they list 4 episodes in season 8 at the top right under season 7 and then at the bottom there are two additional episodes listed for season 8. 

As @SimoneS said, the top tier cast are paid for all episodes of a season, regardless of the number of episodes in which they actually appear, so the fact that NCW was paid for six episodes doesn’t mean that he’ll appear in six.

About 12 hours now...

[Leila6]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Kaysen762 who apparently got info from Friki said that Friki would be posting a significant spoiler, but that the info won’t in of itself spoil who ends up on the IT, if anyone.

IIRC, claytoy also said that the big rumor he’d heard (which enty confirmed was the same as friki’s reveal) was represented on friki’s shirt except the IT part, and he said this before Kaysen. Some people thought that meant there’d be no IT in the end, but he could’ve jut meant the spoiler does not state who ends up on the throne.

[GrailKing]

On 9/6/2018 at 6:40 AM, Eyes High said:

Yes.

/Frikidoctor has made it sound as if we're going to get a video next week where he delivers the spoilery goods (if indeed these are spoilers and not just another of his theories), so either way we'll know soon enough.

Didn't he say he was trolling with that?

[SeanC]

7 hours ago, WindyNights said:

D & D have said otherwise recently.

Specificallty, they said too many things have been changed to get to the same ending as GRRM's and that they checked with Martin to see how their idea of the ending meshed with his. You'll definitely large elements of GRRM's ending in there but you'll also see large amounts of D & D's added parts.

The one thing I will say is, once it became clear that the show would pass the books both the showrunners and Martin began to really emphasize the differences in the ending whereas before it was all about how they were building to the same thing.  While undoubtedly there will be big differences, I think there’s to some extent a desire to emphasize that the books will still have new stuff in them.

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, WindyNights said:

D & D have said otherwise recently.

Specificallty, they said too many things have been changed to get to the same ending as GRRM's and that they checked with Martin to see how their idea of the ending meshed with his. You'll definitely large elements of GRRM's ending in there but you'll also see large amounts of D & D's added parts.

I will keep posting this because it is true no matter how many times you claim otherwise: D&D have always that the main characters will have the same endings as in the book, if they die in the book, they will die on the show. However, how they get there will be different and since Martin didn't have most of the other characters' fates planned out those will be different.

Edited September 7, 2018 by SimoneS

[nikma]

11 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The one thing I will say is, once it became clear that the show would pass the books both the showrunners and Martin began to really emphasize the differences in the ending whereas before it was all about how they were building to the same thing.  While undoubtedly there will be big differences, I think there’s to some extent a desire to emphasize that the books will still have new stuff in them.

I agree. Before S5 they wanted to send a message that nothing will change, so the show's popularity won't suffer. But when it become clear the show is as strong as ever, they now don't want to hurt future books.

[anamika]

Now that Peter Dinklage has confirmed that Tyrion's in love with Dany and that "There’s jealousy wrapped up in there" I wonder if there is anything to Craic_Chancer's leaks. Namely:

Quote

At the discontent of the northern lords, Sansa suggests a marriage between Jon and Daenerys. Tyrion is against this. Why?

"Official" reason, Jon has already bent the knee. He (Tyrion) wants her to save that card in case she needs it for another kingdom.

"Actual" reason, the lads a bit jealous.

https://www.reddit.com/user/Craic_Chancer

I mean Greyworm could still be killed by Golden Company in the series finale if they are still on Team Cersei.

[nikma]

8 minutes ago, anamika said:

Now that Peter Dinklage has confirmed that Tyrion's in love with Dany and that "There’s jealousy wrapped up in there" I wonder if there is anything to Craic_Chancer's leaks. Namely:

https://www.reddit.com/user/Craic_Chancer

I mean Greyworm could still be killed by Golden Company in the series finale if they are still on Team Cersei.

From his leaks the best one is about Cersei and Melisandre IMO. 

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Leila6 said:

IIRC, claytoy also said that the big rumor he’d heard (which enty confirmed was the same as friki’s reveal) was represented on friki’s shirt except the IT part, and he said this before Kaysen. Some people thought that meant there’d be no IT in the end, but he could’ve jut meant the spoiler does not state who ends up on the throne.

I dunno how Jon or Tyrion dying would give away what happens with the IT, or even if there is an IT.

Friki has moved up his schedule and has promised a video at 11:00 pm Spain time, so six hours away.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I dunno how Jon or Tyrion dying would give away what happens with the IT, or even if there is an IT.

Friki has moved up his schedule and has promised a video at 11:00 pm Spain time.

What's that 4-5 PM ET US?

Edited September 7, 2018 by GrailKing

[bubble sparkly]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I dunno how Jon or Tyrion dying would give away what happens with the IT, or even if there is an IT.

Well I suppose if the spoiler is that Jon dies and Dany doesn’t, the likely outcome is Dany ruling (whether on the IT or a new ugly chair) with Tyrion as her hand. Alternatively, if the spoiler is that Tyrion dies and JD live, then one can probably assume JD rule together.

[anamika]

13 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Well I suppose if the spoiler is that Jon dies and Dany doesn’t, the likely outcome is Dany ruling (whether on the IT or a new ugly chair) with Tyrion as her hand. Alternatively, if the spoiler is that Tyrion dies and JD live, then one can probably assume JD rule together.

If it is the former scenario of Jon dying and Dany surviving with Tyrion as hand, then that aligns with the one major leak out 9 months ago which placed Sansa, Greyworm, FM, SweetRobin, Tyrion, Brienne etc. in KL sans Dany. That leak also had boatbaby as the prince/princess that was promised as Claytoy says will happen and that the baby is born at the very end as Craic_Chancer says.

But yeah, I do think we are getting either J/D ruling with Tyrion dying or Jon dying with Dany surviving to lead/rebuild Westeros with Tyrion's help. 1 is just tragic and 4 would be too disappointing with the Lannisters squatting on the Iron Throne from the beginning till the very end.

Personally, I do think Tyrion dying will be a shocker. While I am a big believer of the idea that Tyrion will in someway or form betray Jon and Dany - even if it's in a very whitewashed way on the show- I still expect him to live out his life in Casterly Rock and dying of old age in the books. Tyrion and Arya are two characters that I was very sure will survive this series.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Now that Peter Dinklage has confirmed that Tyrion's in love with Dany and that "There’s jealousy wrapped up in there" I wonder if there is anything to Craic_Chancer's leaks. Namely:

https://www.reddit.com/user/Craic_Chancer

I mean Greyworm could still be killed by Golden Company in the series finale if they are still on Team Cersei.

Tyrion being in love with Dany is one of those things I’d call too easy to guess to really lend credence to any predictions (except insofar as they are not inconsistent with the facts).

[nikma]

21 minutes ago, anamika said:

Personally, I do think Tyrion dying will be a shocker.

I agree, but I feel it would be just that. Jon's death on the other hand can serve a purpose, to defeat the WW. Tyrion's death would be pointless IMO. 

[nikma]

Friki debunked these theories:

1. ⁠Gendry as legitimized King

2.Jonsa

3.Jon King, Tyrion alive, Daenerys dead combination

4.Daenerys Death at Childbirth

5.Jon as new Night King

If you combine this with his options for the ending it seems that Daenerys will live and that Jon could be king only with her, but not alone. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by nikma

[GraceK]

It’s a possibility that Tyrion betrays Jon for love of Dany, and Dany kills Tyrion. That would explain Emilia’s cryptic remarks of “ leaving a bad taste in the mouth of who Dany is”, and would cause the internet to explode with rage ?????. It also fits one of the endings of Frikis shirts. Jon and Dany, dead Tyrion...?‍♀️. That would certainly be unexpected.

im just throwing things out there. ::ducks::

Edited September 7, 2018 by GraceK

[nikma]

Friki mentions bittersweet with a heavy emphasis on the “bitter”.

Edited September 7, 2018 by nikma

[WindyNights]

26 minutes ago, nikma said:

Friki mentions bittersweet with a heavy emphasis on the “bitter”.

 

Sounds like Jon and Dany dead then with Tyrion ruling as regent with the baby.

Just check freefolk. They're already trying to justify Tyrion's death but also loudly exclaiming what's the point of the story if Jon and Dany die.

GRRM has talked about the beauty that he finds in sadness and how he prefers tragic love stories.

Edited September 7, 2018 by WindyNights

[nikma]

UPDATE: Jon, Tyrion, Dany ruling together as 3 Heads Debunked

I think Jon will choose to die. He won't be just killed in battle, it will be something like Harry Potter's death in DH, but he won't come back. 

He will die with dignity.

Tyrion's death feels pointless, just shock value.

[Leila6]

8 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Sounds like Jon and Dany dead then with Tyrion ruling as regent with the baby.

No way in any shape or form do I think the remaining Starks would allow Tyrion to be regent alone for baby Targ. 

[GraceK]

3 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

No way in any shape or form do I think the remaining Starks would allow Tyrion to be regent alone for baby Targ. 

Agreed. Especially if Sansa and Arya lives. I cannot see a reality were Arya or Sansa allows a Lannister to keep a child of Jons, especially to rule over him. Arya would kill him first. (Tyrion not the baby lol)

Edited September 7, 2018 by GraceK

[GrailKing]

47 minutes ago, nikma said:

Friki debunked these theories:

1. ⁠Gendry as legitimized King

2.Jonsa

3.Jon King, Tyrion alive, Daenerys dead combination

4.Daenerys Death at Childbirth

5.Jon as new Night King

If you combine this with his options for the ending it seems that Daenerys will live and that Jon could be king only with her, but not alone. 

Atención, cambio de planes: No habrá vídeo convencional de #juegodetronos esta noche en mi canal de #Youtube . Habrá un directo a las 23:00 hora española. Primero contaré las noticias y luego responderé preguntas. ¡Os espero!
ENGLISH
Attention, change of plans: There will be no conventional video of #Game of Thrones  tonight on my channel #Youtube . There will be a live show at 23:00 Spanish time. First I will tell the news and then I will answer questions. I wait for you!

https://mobile.twitter.com/frikidoctor/status/1038045591291539457

[WindyNights]

3 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Agreed. Especially if Sansa and Arya lives. I cannot see a reality were Arya or Sansa allows a Lannister to keep a child of Jons, especially to rule over him. Arya would kill him first.

 

Perhaps Sansa will serve as co-regent then along with Tyrion.

 Arya would then be ruling Winterfell in Sansa's stead.

Edited September 7, 2018 by WindyNights

[nikma]

3 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Attention, change of plans: There will be no conventional video of #Game of Thrones  tonight on my channel #Youtube . There will be a live show at 23:00 Spanish time. First I will tell the news and then I will answer questions. I wait for you!

Well, I'm fine with this. 

[SeanC]

47 minutes ago, nikma said:

4.Daenerys Death at Childbirth

This theory never made sense to me, even setting aside what a terrible ending it would be for the series’ flagship female character, because any baby delivery would only ever be an epilogue to the main action of the show, and having Dany die in such a manner would be an absurd anticlimax after everything else.

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Perhaps Sansa will serve as co-regent then along with Tyrion.

 Arya would then be ruling Winterfell in Sansa's stead.

 

I would prefer Sansa rule alone as regent in that scenario instead of having a Lannister on the iron throne at all to be honest. I am not even a Sansa fan but I would rather see a Stark and Jon’s cousin end up as regent with Baby Targ in the worst case scenario if Dany and Jon die then to have the Lannisters end the series on the throne.

Edited September 7, 2018 by GraceK

[GrailKing]

11 minutes ago, nikma said:

UPDATE: Jon, Tyrion, Dany ruling together as 3 Heads Debunked

I think Jon will choose to die. He won't be just killed in battle, it will be something like Harry Potter's death in DH, but he won't come back. 

He will die with dignity.

Tyrion's death feels pointless, just shock value.

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

I still believe Tyrion is treason for LOVE, whether it's for Dany, Jon or Family he does loom large.

[WindyNights]

8 minutes ago, SeanC said:

This theory never made sense to me, even setting aside what a terrible ending it would be for the series’ flagship female character, because any baby delivery would only ever be an epilogue to the main action of the show, and having Dany die in such a manner would be an absurd anticlimax after everything else.

Well GRRM called the Scouring of the Shire anti-climatic and he loved it

8 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I would prefer Sansa rule alone as regent in that scenario instead of having a Lannister on the iron throne at all to be honest. I am not even a Sansa fan but I would rather see a Stark and Jon’s cousin end up as regent with Baby Targ in the worst case scenario if Dany and Jon die then to have the Lannisters end the series on the throne.

Well it was just confirmed that one of the possible endings isn't Tyrion as regent but Tyrion as king.

King Tyrion. 

Tyrone= king 

 

-------

 

"Remember this, boy. All dwarfs may be bastards, yet not all bastards need be dwarfs." And with that he turned and sauntered back into the feast, whistling a tune. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.

[nikma]

5 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

I still believe Tyrion is treason for LOVE, whether it's for Dany, Jon or Family he does loom large.

Ok, but it feels pointless IMO. Jon's death could help kill NK. Tyrion's would be just shock value. 

[WindyNights]

If it is a King Tyrion scenario then I might have to start thinking that Sansa could potentially actually end up with Tyrion after all. 

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, nikma said:

k, but it feels pointless IMO. Jon's death could help kill NK. Tyrion's would be just shock value. 

Not if Tyrion dies heroically or because of betraying team Dany. There are many ways Tyrion can die that won’t be just for shock. One way can be Cersei killing him, finally, which can lead to Jaime killing her. One way can Tyrion saving Sansa in the last fight at KL. Who knows? He can even sacrifice himself trying to save Dany or Jon and his betrayal can be a red herring. Anything is possible.

[WindyNights]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Not if Tyrion dies heroically or because of betraying team Dany. There are many ways Tyrion can die that won’t be just for shock. One way can be Cersei killing him, finally, which can lead to Jaime killing her. One way can Tyrion saving Sansa in the last fight at KL. Who knows? He can even sacrifice himself trying to save Dany or Jon and his betrayal can be a red herring. Anything is possible.

That all sounds really lame and safe.

If you want to kill Tyrion off in an interesting way then don't do it in a way that makes him heroic or self-sacrificing. It'd be more interesting if he was executed by Jon or Daenerys.

[GraceK]

Just now, WindyNights said:

It'd be more interesting if he was executed by Jon or Daenerys.

I did mention that above earlier in the thread  and in my post. ?

[Colorful Mess]

If there is a Great Council deciding who rules or even if the Starks have a say I doubt they would choose a Targaryen baby as the heir. The last time a Great Council formed to choose a ruler, they said absolutely no to a Targaryen baby - because it was a coin toss for madness and it would take too long for him to come of age. So they chose a Targ adult, Aegon V. And this was when the Lords were starting to turn against the Targaryens overall and Aegon struggled to keep them in line. Post-war Westeros needs someone new and the Lannisters have been ruling since Book 1. So if Jon dies Sansa as queen is viable. Or maybe just an elected Council overall like Volantis. But Friki knows that Tshirt wouldnt sell.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Colorful Mess

[Dezzdemona]

 I LOVE the idea of Tyrion ending up on the iron throne.   He has as much claim as his siblings but had never hungered for it the way Ceircei and Joffrey did.   Nor did he live and breathe entitlement the way Daenerys has.  I think Tyrion would make a decent ruler because he does have compassion and common sense in equal measure.   I would not hate that ending... depending on the route taken to get there, of course.

[Happy Harpy]

All I see for now is, "he's almost sure" and no proof.

[domina89]

2 hours ago, nikma said:

I agree, but I feel it would be just that. Jon's death on the other hand can serve a purpose, to defeat the WW. Tyrion's death would be pointless IMO. 

If Cersei and Jaime are already dead, Tyrion's death would mean the end of House Lannister.  Considering the Lannisters have held control over the 7K for quite some time (going all the way back to when Tywin was the Mad King's hand) and for the entire duration of our current story, that would be very significant indeed.  Not to mention the Reynes of Castamere would finally be avenged.

[WindyNights]

18 minutes ago, Dezzdemona said:

 I LOVE the idea of Tyrion ending up on the iron throne.   He has as much claim as his siblings but had never hungered for it the way Ceircei and Joffrey did.   Nor did he live and breathe entitlement the way Daenerys has.  I think Tyrion would make a decent ruler because he does have compassion and common sense in equal measure.   I would not hate that ending... depending on the route taken to get there, of course.

Tyrion would make the land prosper but he's a pretty shitty person.

He's a misogynist, he's got bad PR problems( Stannis is the prom queen compared to Tyrion), he's a rapist plus he's contemptuous of democracy and peasants.

Tyrion is a much better version of Tywin basically but with huge PR problems.

[SimoneS]

So still no credible leak/spoiler/info about how the show actually ends. I hope one day soon we can get one. 

[YaddaYadda]

I throw up in my mouth every time I see something related to Tyrion or Sansa ruling, two characters I enjoy in the books and dislike on the show. And then getting their hands on the JD baby is such a big no-no for me.

Edited September 7, 2018 by YaddaYadda

[Eyes High]

20 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Tyrion would make the land prosper but he's a pretty shitty person.

He's a misogynist, he's got bad PR problems( Stannis is the prom queen compared to Tyrion), he's a rapist plus he's contemptuous of democracy and peasants.

Tyrion is a much better version of Tywin basically but with huge PR problems.

Have any of the big three really been set up by the show's writers to be any kind of credible endgame ruler, though?

1. Jon: "I am a pathologically well-meaning, suicidally honourable moron who has to be patiently explained simple concepts by the adults in the room."

2. Tyrion: "Varys and I had a long talk in Season 5 about how no one would want to be governed by freaks like us. Also, did you check out my disastrous military campaign in Season 7 where I gave round after round of terrible advice?"

3. Dany: "I'm not saying I'm Aerys 2.0, but I'm also not not saying that. You can watch me burn some Tarlys while Tyrion looks anguished and make up your own minds."

One of them is probably going to end up in charge, but I don't know how we're supposed to feel good about any of it.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

Just now, Eyes High said:

Have any of the big three really been set up by the show's writers to be any kind of credible endgame ruler, though?

1. Jon: "I am a pathologically well-meaning, suicidally honourable moron who has to be patiently explained simple concepts by the adults in the room."

2. Tyrion: "Varys and I had a long talk in Season 5 about how no one would want to be governed by freaks like us. Also, did you check out my disastrous military campaign in Season 7 where I gave round after round of terrible advice?"

3. Dany: "I'm not saying I'm Aerys 2.0, but I'm also not not saying that. You can watch me burn some Tarlys while Tyrion looks anguished and make up your own minds."

One of them is probably going to end up in charge, but I don't know how we're supposed to feel good about any of it.

The show writers think Tyrion is brilliant. They even start talking up how smart his wight hunt idea is and the outline for the last episodes makes it clear that they think he's a badass for getting Cersei back on board.

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

The show writers think Tyrion is brilliant. They even start talking up how smart his wight hunt idea is and the outline for the last episodes makes it clear that they think he's a badass for getting Cersei back on board.

“Never trust the teller, trust the tale. .....................”   ― D.H. Lawrence

Book maybe, show not so much.

Book a rather bad person, show not so much

Both mediums he's not to be trusted.

[nikma]

38 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

All I see for now is, "he's almost sure" and no proof.

He is almost sure for ending, he is 100% sure about his spoilers.

[shireenbamfatheon]

People are gonna be pissed if the spoilers don't live up to the hype.

[Happy Harpy]

47 minutes ago, nikma said:

He is almost sure for ending, he is 100% sure about his spoilers.

Yes, that's what I was saying. He's "almost sure" about the ending, which means zilch, and he has yet to give proof about his spoiler.

[nikma]

4 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Yes, that's what I was saying. He's "almost sure" about the ending, which means zilch, and he has yet to give proof about his spoiler.

We won't give proof I'm sure. Proof will be his track record.

[SimoneS]

23 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Yes, that's what I was saying. He's "almost sure" about the ending, which means zilch, and he has yet to give proof about his spoiler.

I don't think that it is fair to ask for proof with spoilers/leaks, especially when it could get someone in trouble or even fired. However, the leaks should have some credibility when compared to the shooting schedule like occurred with Lads last season, although that was a once in a lifetime leak, I think.