Dezzdemona

One thing we haven't mentioned in our speculation about Tyrion's possible motivations for a betrayal is the eventual reveal that Jon Snow is actually a Targaryen and not a Stark. He came to like (love?) and respect Dany as a person, and we know he likes and respects Jon Snow as well. But how would he feel about a full on restoration of the Targaryen dynasty on the Iron Throne? I don't believe Tyrion would ever form any kind of alliance with Cersei. She has never been anything but vile toward him, and she would never forgive him for murdering their father. IF he does betray Dany and Jon, IMO it won't have anything to do with furthering Cersei's interests whatsoever.

Edited - wrong thread. My apologies.

I LOVE the idea of Tyrion ending up on the iron throne. He has as much claim as his siblings but had never hungered for it the way Ceircei and Joffrey did. Nor did he live and breathe entitlement the way Daenerys has. I think Tyrion would make a decent ruler because he does have compassion and common sense in equal measure. I would not hate that ending... depending on the route taken to get there, of course.

Dany is ambition personified. She not only embraces it, she breathes it every waking second of every day. It's impossible for me to even imagine Dany without those huge ambitions. IMO Sansa, OTOH, is not comfortable with her ambitious side. When Arya asks her why she didn't tell John she had called on the Vale, she answers that she doesn't know and I believe that's genuine. She doesn't really know where it came from, so I see her as not embracing her ambitious side. I think that could change, but her ambitions are nothing the size of Dany's at all. So I do see them as very different from one another. I completely agree.

I do hope you're right. Arya and Sansa did seem to end season 7 united. I am leery for two reasons. First, I have trouble seeing Sansa as fully accepting Dany. Secondly, Sansa has a streak of ambition that sometimes gets the better of her. and she has been shown to act impulsively at times. I hope she can keep a grip on those tendencies. I would dearly love to see the Starks well and truly united through season 8. I developed a great affection for all of them at the beginning and would love to come full circle with that, just as a matter of personal preference.

One way to break the wheel would be to abolish the Iron Throne altogether. Let the 7 kingdoms exist as fully autonomous realms, each with its own king or queen. Have some kind of central council or confederation, with representation from each kingdom, charged with settling disputes. Possibly charged as well to call on the kingdoms to unite against a common enemy like TAOTD or a foreign invader. Do any of them have the wisdom to seek that kind of solution, or are they all doomed to keep repeating the cycle wherein the ambitious and powerful can't help but try to rule them all? One quick speculation about Arya. It occurred to me that a "shocking" development in the finale would be if we learned that Arya had been wearing the face of one of the key players for some period of time. That would be mind blowing, but they've laid all the ground work for something like that. She explained how it works to Sansa last season so we've been forewarned, in a manner of speaking. Maybe she steps in for a fallen Jon to see the last battle through or some such. Maybe she'll have been standing in for somebody else for several episodes... Was it Sophie who said her ending effed her up? Imagine if she learned she'd been dead for the last three episodes and had had no clue. Short-term or long, such a masquerade would be a cool twist. Completely diabolical, but cool. Or maybe I'm just a sick and twisted woman! I'm allowing for that possibility. I think I will definitely need alcohol to accompany that last episode.

I've spent the last week, off and on, catching up on this thread. First of all, thank you for all the spoilers and speculation; it's been fascinating to read. I'm reserving judgment on the spoilers for now, but I have been intrigued by the various descriptions given by the various actors and other participants. I have a very different view of some of the characters than some, so I'll start there. Sansa - She learned her political theories from Cercei and LF, both massively ambitious, devious and unscrupulous. She has been consistently at odds with Jon. She was quick to claim credit (to Arya) for retaking WF. "John LOST the battle." She goes on to say that it was she who enlisted the help of the Vale, that they fought for HER, and that's what won the war. When Jon refuses to remove the Umbers and Carstarks from their ancestral homes, she says, "So there's to be no punishment for treason, no reward for loyalty?" That sounded like Lannister-style politics. She does not admire Jon's very different approach, and seems increasingly jealous of his position as TKITN. I think she believes herself to be much smarter and a better natural leader than Jon. I don't believe for one minute that she will accept Dany, not as Queen, not as Jon's love, not in any manner. She will pretend to, but it will be a false face she wears. Behind the scenes, I think she will do everything possible to undermine Jon. I think she will fully embrace her political ambitions, and they will win out over the sweet and loving side of her character. I suspect, she will become more scheming and devious as the season progresses. She may have an ally in Bran because he seems perturbed to know that Jon is getting involved with Dany and insistent that he has to know his true origins as soon as possible. Tyrion - I do not think Sansa will have an ally in Tyrion. In fact, I think he will be the first to see the falseness of her seeming acceptance of Dany. He had a lifetime to recognize the Lannister mindset, and I think he'll be shocked by how political and ambitious she's become, so different from the girl he knew. Lannister style was all he knew until Dany, but I believe his time with her has been transformative for him. He embraces a different way of ruling now. I would not be surprised if he, at some point, seeks to assassinate Sansa. Certainly, I see no possible pairing of the two as I think he will find the new Sansa repellent, and most importantly, dangerous to Dany. Arya - She's a mystery to me at this point. Ruthless to the core, but which side would she choose between Jon and Sansa? I think she would choose Jon, and she has no prior grudge with Dany, so I don't think that pairing would be an impediment for her. She might be the one who finally assassinates Sansa. I'm not ruling that out. Jon - I think Tyrion will try to warn Jon that Sansa is being false and is a danger to Dany, but Jon will not believe him. He will be loyal to Sansa, and it will cost him dearly. I'm boggled at the spoiler that has him fighting to the death with Grey Worm. What??? So much to speculate about, and still so many months in which to drive ourselves crazy with guessing. I'll stop with the above. I'm curious to know if anyone else is seeing Sansa as a potential snake in the garden, so to speak.

Kathryn Heigel is even more unwatchable in this role than in previous ones I've seen. And there's all that weird filler in her face be fascinated/horrified by as well. Quite aside from KH, the episode failed to grab me for some reason. It felt like Harvey, Louis and Donna were going through the same old, same old. I'm hoping for better next week now that we've settled Harvey back into his old office and Zayne into his role as managing partner.

I binged this season over the past couple of days. It's a holiday weekend here in Canada, but it's about 112 degrees so it's indoor time. Overall, I enjoyed the season. I thought both Cottonmouth and Bushmaster were worthy villains, and then Mariah proved to be the most soul-less of them all. Mariah/Shades was cringeworthy from start to finish, but I did enjoy Shades otherwise. I was not surprised Tilda killed Mariah, but I was taken aback at how venomous she was over not inheriting the club. Tilda is firmly in the villain category going into Season 3, if there is one, along with the mob bosses in VIP. I'd really like a Season 3 because I liked Luke until the last 15 minutes of the finale. I want another season so he can be rescued from the role he seems to be taking on. Power corrupts, and he's embraced it will all the trappings. Sad ending for a "hero". I did enjoy Misty and Claire kicking ass along the way. I always enjoy seeing some good strong women and on this show, not one of them was identified by her relationship. Bonus.

Some candidates for that other bit of levity, aka things that made me laugh: Madam President to Grace and Harris, "Dare I say the situation has gotten even more complicated since last we met." Darius plants Liam in front of a computer to find the back door Re/Syst used to hack the ICBMs. "Don't even think of leaving that chair. Jillian, you're in charge of him... and the chair." He's editing the speech; Grace wants to talk. "The speech is good..." Nope. "I'm sorry. I thought the Ark was the safest…" Nope. Grace: "I poured my heart out to you..." Could there possibly be a worse time for a needy would-be girlfriend to want emotional clarity? He's lost Tess, and his fabulous company, and he's losing his beloved Treehouse - all the things that made him so cool. And he's losing his protégé/sidekick, Liam. He's suddenly the VP, and he has to be the nation's reassuring Daddy. AND he has to get control of that ICBM, AND stop that planet-killing asteroid, AND maybe figure out who sabotaged the Ark. He can't have the talk now!!! And even after he explains that, Grace has the nerve to get all snippy with him! Dumb, but funny. I've made peace with the fact that this show is messy. I'll just enjoy the unintended laughs along the way. With Liam closeted away with the Re/Syst group, I had hoped we'd see less of Jillian, but it looks like we'll be seeing more of her instead. Still, I enjoyed the first season well enough once I'd made peace with the show's shortcomings. I am curious to see where they're going to take it next. Heaven knows, I've been terrible at guessing that so far.

Just saw a promo for Season 2. It launches on CBS on June 25th.