Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Sunshinegal]

I just had a thought.  What if Bran wargs Dany and because of that Dany gives the order to burn King's Landing.  And what if Dany burns herself as a sacrifice for the Long Night like Stannis did Shireen.  I don't know why, but I have a feeling that the previous two WTF moments pertain to Dany.  Of course I could also be wrong.  I thought it was weird that Bran can warg a dragon.  But he can warg a human being.  He did it before with Hodor.  And Dany might sacrifice herself for the greater good.  And I think she might do that while pregnant.  I know that its morbid, but I just think that it can be possible.

[anamika]

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion and Sansa ruling wouldn't be the craziest thing (compared to, say, Bran on the Iron Throne, which would be a real WTF for me), but I don't see any realistic scenario where Jon and Dany survive but refuse to rule. 

 

The problem for me with Tyrion sitting on the Iron throne is that the Lannisters win the game of thrones from start to end. Despite being the central human villains of the story - they are pretty much responsible for destroying the Starks. Including Tyrion who propped up Lannister reign in KL until he gets framed for Joffrey's murder.

Season one ends with Joffrey crowned King. He continues for two more seasons. Tommen in season 4. Cersei in season 6. And Tyrion in season 8? Lannisters on the IT from start to end? Not even one person from any other house even manages to get close to it. Which is rather bland.

Anyways Kit has said in several interviews that he thinks Tyrion will sit on the Iron Throne as opposed to obvious choices like Dany and Jon.

 

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So if Emilia's last scenes were filmed in Dubrovnik, could it be whatever was filmed at the pier? And if so, does that mean that Dany's last scene on the show is leaving KL, presumably for good?

 

There was a leak which mentioned that Jon dies and Dany goes away with her kid. There was lots of stuff in there about Sansa negotiating with the SweetRobin and taking the Vale army to negotiate with Cersei etc. Now that I know it's D&D's interpretation, it could be possible that these spoilers are true. If I recollect right, according to those spoilers, Sansa and Tyrion end up as final leaders of Westeros, Arya goes away west of westeros, Bran and Jon die, Jaime and Cersei die and Dany goes to Essos. I think this flows well from last season.

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So pretty much all these characters who in my opinion are clearly marked for death survive to 8x05 or 8x06. To me, that means that it's far less likely that Team Jon/Dany will see any big deaths of their own, since these "obvious" deaths were all backloaded.

And then, for reference, you have all the actors playing characters on Team Jon/Dany who were spotted in Seville or in Belfast (not counting parties) since the beginning of May, meaning they at least make it to 8x05 or 8x06:

 

 Since it looks like 8x06 is not just the denouement, it's possible that if any of the main guys are dying, they do so in the final episode.  Jon could make it till the last 10 minutes of 8x06 before valiantly dying after killing the NK.

I am going to bring this back since I think there is a chance this is true and it jives with filming spoilers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6x8zyo/season_8_general_outlinejuly_17_script/

It's classic D&D. It has all the elements of a D&D story in there. There is SweetRobin, Edmure and FM assassin in KL - aligning with Seville filming - and this was written 10 months ago. This is the ending:

Quote

There is a time jump a year into the future. Danerys has a son called Jon and finally has the respect of the people and is declared queen, but the main red priestess tells her of the slave revolt in Volantis and other cities fighting for their freedom in Essos. Danerys tells Tyrion that Westeros will never be her home. She will return to Essos and help that continent, and when Jon is of age he will rule Westeros, not her. But she says it’s important that Jon be a “child of the world”, not just Westeros. Danerys’ final decision as queen of westeros is to melt the iron throne. -Danerys tells Jorah she needs him more than ever now, but confesses to Misandei that she will never love again, not like with Jon. Danerys abandons Westeros in the last episode.

Tyrion and Sansa agree to rule while Jon and Danerys’ child comes of age. They rule together, not as king and queen but as mediators between kingdoms. Sansa gives up her title of queen of the vale. The council of kingdoms includes Sam, the legitimised Gendry, Theon, Davos, Tormund, Misandei (who stays in Westeros with Greyworm) and others. -Bran’s body is never found. Both Sansa and Arya agree that he is not dead, that he is the three-eyed raven now. The direwolf Ghost stays in Winterfell with Arya.

There is no Iron Throne. Tyrion and Sansa lead the new Westeros. Arya/Ghost in Winterfell. Bran disappears. Dany leaves for Essos. Jon dies.

Unpredictable? I could see that if the majority think that Jon/Dany are going to rule. A happy ending on reflection? I can also see that. Bittersweet? Yes.

Edited July 6, 2018 by anamika

[Callista]

5 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

I just had a thought.  What if Bran wargs Dany and because of that Dany gives the order to burn King's Landing.  And what if Dany burns herself as a sacrifice for the Long Night like Stannis did Shireen.  I don't know why, but I have a feeling that the previous two WTF moments pertain to Dany.  Of course I could also be wrong.  I thought it was weird that Bran can warg a dragon.  But he can warg a human being.  He did it before with Hodor.  And Dany might sacrifice herself for the greater good.  And I think she might do that while pregnant.  I know that its morbid, but I just think that it can be possible.

The show writers seem to have made Dany fireproof, though, so if she ever sacrifices herself it probably wouldn't be by burning herself. Also, I'm curious: why do you think "the two previous WTF moments pertain to Dany" in particular? Why not to Jon, Bran, Jaime, etc.?

I also noticed that with the two previous WTF moments, the people sacrificed (Shireen and Hodor) didn't sacrifice themselves of their own free will. Stannis and Bran-Meera made those decisions for them. So if the third WTF moment is also a sacrifice, it might involve someone sacrificing another innocent person. Is this perhaps why you think it's possible Dany would sacrifice herself while pregnant--her baby would be the innocent victim? Just wondering.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Callista

[nikma]

9 hours ago, anamika said:

The problem for me with Tyrion sitting on the Iron throne is that the Lannisters win the game of thrones from start to end. Despite being the central human villains of the story - they are pretty much responsible for destroying the Starks. Including Tyrion who propped up Lannister reign in KL until he gets framed for Joffrey's murder.

Season one ends with Joffrey crowned King. He continues for two more seasons. Tommen in season 4. Cersei in season 6. And Tyrion in season 8? Lannisters on the IT from start to end? Not even one person from any other house even manages to get close to it. Which is rather bland.

Anyways Kit has said in several interviews that he thinks Tyrion will sit on the Iron Throne as opposed to obvious choices like Dany and Jon.

 

 

There was a leak which mentioned that Jon dies and Dany goes away with her kid. There was lots of stuff in there about Sansa negotiating with the SweetRobin and taking the Vale army to negotiate with Cersei etc. Now that I know it's D&D's interpretation, it could be possible that these spoilers are true. If I recollect right, according to those spoilers, Sansa and Tyrion end up as final leaders of Westeros, Arya goes away west of westeros, Bran and Jon die, Jaime and Cersei die and Dany goes to Essos. I think this flows well from last season.

 Since it looks like 8x06 is not just the denouement, it's possible that if any of the main guys are dying, they do so in the final episode.  Jon could make it till the last 10 minutes of 8x06 before valiantly dying after killing the NK.

I am going to bring this back since I think there is a chance this is true and it jives with filming spoilers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6x8zyo/season_8_general_outlinejuly_17_script/

It's classic D&D. It has all the elements of a D&D story in there. There is SweetRobin, Edmure and FM assassin in KL - aligning with Seville filming - and this was written 10 months ago. This is the ending:

There is no Iron Throne. Tyrion and Sansa lead the new Westeros. Arya/Ghost in Winterfell. Bran disappears. Dany leaves for Essos. Jon dies.

Unpredictable? I could see that if the majority think that Jon/Dany are going to rule. A happy ending on reflection? I can also see that. Bittersweet? Yes.

Well, I didn't read everything, but we know there is no battle at Riverrun. 

[Eyes High]

I think that the WTF twists are things that D&D can cheerfully confirm are from the books because they’re separate from the main storylines and don’t really “spoil” anything else, so I think that the last WTF twist will also be something “separate” and self-contained, so it probably doesn’t involve anything that would affect the main storyline. So no more secret Targs, no weird sudden endgame pairings for the main characters, etc. etc. It likely involves a relatively minor character, but not so minor that GRRM probably doesn’t know what will happen to that character (like Bronn or possibly the Hound). And of course it will be a character who’s still alive in the show by the end, who hasn’t already been killed off in the books (such as Beric) and who hasn’t been so dramatically altered in the adaptation that they’re pretty much a different character (Missandei).

So eliminating Sandor, Bronn, Missandei, Grey Worm, the likely members of S8’s death list—Jaime, Cersei, the Mountain, Pod, Tormund, Beric, Qyburn, Euron, Varys, Jorah, and Melisandre—as well as the central characters—-Starklings, Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Sam—whom does that leave? Davos, Gendry and Gilly.

Davos is the endgame Hand, maybe...? Although that would definitely spoil quite a bit.

Gendry’s tricky, because he’s a composite of two characters from the books.

I think Gilly is a potential member of S8’s death list, so not sure about her.

[bubble sparkly]

The main reason I cannot see Tyrion ever ending up in charge is because Westeros as a whole considers him "lesser" for being a dwarf.  I don't think the NK battle will miraculously cure Westeros of all its ableist, sexist, racist, homophobic etc. prejudices, so the chances of the nobles and common folk suddenly deciding Tyrion is a viable leader are slim imo.  It's the same reason why I don't think anyone would ever accept illiterate, Fleabottom-raised, bastard Gendry as king, despite him having Baratheon blood.

[YaddaYadda]

25 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

It's the same reason why I don't think anyone would ever accept illiterate, Fleabottom-raised, bastard Gendry as king, despite him having Baratheon blood.

Every time I see the Gendry for king speculation, I hear the Veep theme music. 

[whateverdgaf]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

The main reason I cannot see Tyrion ever ending up in charge is because Westeros as a whole considers him "lesser" for being a dwarf.  I don't think the NK battle will miraculously cure Westeros of all its ableist, sexist, racist, homophobic etc. prejudices, so the chances of the nobles and common folk suddenly deciding Tyrion is a viable leader are slim imo.  It's the same reason why I don't think anyone would ever accept illiterate, Fleabottom-raised, bastard Gendry as king, despite him having Baratheon blood.

I agree that the NK won't instantly cure Westeros of its prejudice, but I would hope that the season ends with strong indicators that the prejudices society is beginning to change. Otherwise the ending would land firmly on the bitter end of bittersweet.

[anamika]

4 hours ago, nikma said:

Well, I didn't read everything, but we know there is no battle at Riverrun. 

Plus the whole 55 day nightshoot was not just at Moneyglass on the WF set. They were filming a lot of the time in front of giant green screens with lots of snow that can be anywhere. Did we not see some wolf like props near the green screens? Could be -"A hungry pack of wolves intercepts the zombie army and they tear a lot of them apart.". Nymeria and her pack is hanging around the Riverlands on the show.

Everywhere in Westeros is going to be dark with lots of snow.  The Golden Company attack could very well be in Riverun - makes more sense than the Golden Company going all that way up North without Jon/North not knowing. After Jon says that no army can attack them in the North.

I am not going to rule out 3 battles as the AOTD moves south. With Edmure showing up in KL, it means Riverrun is back in play. Plus Kit and NCW have been seen hanging out in Belfast and filming at the same time. I think Jaime/Brienne fighting scenes could also be in Riverrun.

As per those leaks, SR, Sansa, Tyrion and Brienne are all in KL when the AOTD attack - matches with Seville filming information of these actors with body doubles.

As per the leaks, Northerners and Riverland folks participate in the KL battle - explains Tobias Menzies in Seville.

The leaks mention a scene where Cersei has people as hostages in the dragonpit (including Missandei) and Greyworm infiltrates the place to rescue them. We know that Jacob Anderson filmed some stunt scenes in Seville. There was that huge stage that was being set up in the dragonpit.

There's a FM assassin - in the leaks it's Jaqen which they could easily change to the Waif - running around in KL after Brienne. Both Gwen and Faye were in Seville.

Bran is in WF but all over KL watching everything that's happening and  warging from body to body when the NK fights Jon (Vladimir and Kit were in Seville)- this could explain Isaac in seville and Boatsexbaby's 'Astral projection' suggestion.

As per this leak, Dany is not anywhere near the Red Keep or the Dragonpit when all this happens - explains why Emilia was not in Seville with the rest of the gang. She is on Drogon and then lands and is watching from afar.

Dany also leaves for Essos at the very end - could explain the last scene Emilia shot in Dubrovnik.

Remember that these leaks were published on Freefolk nearly 10 months ago.

The leaks say this was from June 2017, so they may have made some changes. I think Tormund/Pod could be dying early to have some casualties in the WF battle. That script could be more streamlined and characters exchanged or killed off sooner. Yara with the mutilated face is also iffy, but I am not sure if Gemma Whelan actually did any filming in Seville or was just there with her baby for a visit.  There is a Sansa-Cersei confrontation scene in this leak which D&D could have exchanged with Jon-Cersei considering D&D mentioned that these two have a very interesting scene between them.

And I don't know, but these leaks just seem like classic D&D - if it's false, this is some good stuff.

 1. Lots of big battles - something Sophie Turner brought up - that could explain all the time Maisie has put in. Arya does not do much in this leak except pop up and kill people - but that's pretty much D&D's interpretation of her. I think Arya will just be doing a lot of fighting with 3 battles on the horizon. 

2. Arya and the Hound joking about chicken. The Hound using the word Cunt - Typical D&D fanservice like the rowing joke.

3. " Jamie has a long scene with Bran in his room. He is about to confess what he did when bran says he already knows. He thanks Jamie for pushing him off the window, otherwise he would not have become the three-eyed raven. " - CLASSIC D&D!

4. Tyrion's 'betrayal' is that he keeps some info from Dany  -  exactly how D&D would write any betrayal arc considering white knight Tyrion on the show

5. Best politician, super diplomat Sansa making an appearance - D&D have to showcase their fave. But Sansa handing out the Vale food supplies to the starving people of KL may actually be a book plot - does she not observe Margaery give food to the KL people and think that very clever? I think Sansa is joining back with her book plot next season after a long detour to the North.

6. Ghost shows up for a cameo at the very end - TYPICAL D&D

And the ending follows through from last season. I just can't see the resurrected Jon surviving. Same with Jaime/Cersei. Brienne dying is a surprise and very sad. The time jump into the future. Dany leaving for Essos to go help the slaves  also makes sense. She lost her dragons but has a child and Jorah seems to be sticking around. The last shot on the Weirwood tree symbolizing Bran.  Arya in Winterfell with Ghost. The ending suggests that she wants to see the world and travel for a bit - did not GRRM talk about writing Arya's adventures in Braavos in the future?

I can see Sansa as Lady of the Vale in the books - like a stronger, better Lysa Aryn - once SweetRobin is killed off. Maybe the Hound sticks around there for a little rompy pompy fun. The leaks seem to suggest that she co-rules with Tyrion until Jon and Dany's child comes of age.  I don't know how GRRM handles this. I can see Tyrion or Arya guiding Jon and Dany's child in the books.  The Iron Throne is melted down and everyone gets busy rebuilding Westeros. Edmure has the Riverlands, Gendry the Stormlands, Sam the Reach, Tyrion the Westerlands, Yara/Theon the Iron Islands and no one really cares about Dorne.

It does feel like a dream of spring. Sad and at the same time looking to the future. A happy ending on reflection?

So if this is D&D's ending, I can sort of connect the dots and imagine where GRRM maybe going as well.

Edited July 6, 2018 by anamika

[SeanC]

59 minutes ago, anamika said:

5. Best politician, super diplomat Sansa making an appearance - D&D have to showcase their fave. But Sansa handing out the Vale food supplies to the starving people of KL may actually be a book plot - does she not observe Margaery give food to the KL people and think that very clever? I think Sansa is joining back with her book plot next season after a long detour to the North.

The Knights of the Vale leaving just so Sansa can go rally them again is one of the more obviously fake aspects of that supposed leak.  It’s generated by dissatisfaction (deserved) with the show’s botches of all Sansa’s previous diplomatic endeavours.

Quote

Dany leaving for Essos to go help the slaves  also makes sense.

It doesn’t, though.  That part of the leak claims slavery still exists in Volantis, when Season 5’s ending featured the Volantenes surrendering to Dany.

And GRRM has always said that Essos isn’t important on its own, so it’s improbable that Dany’s ending is to go back there. 

[anamika]

37 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The Knights of the Vale leaving just so Sansa can go rally them again is one of the more obviously fake aspects of that supposed leak.  It’s generated by dissatisfaction (deserved) with the show’s botches of all Sansa’s previous diplomatic endeavours.

So what do you think Sansa is going to be doing after Winterfell falls?

Both Royce and the Northerners have been written so badly on the show, that I can see Royce leaving and the Northerners allowing Dothraki to die. Like Sophie says, it's D&D's interpretation and their interpretation is that these guys are idiots who don't care about the apocalyptic threat on their doorstep. Or it could be that Royce loses men to the WW and decides to retreat to the Vale.

Marriages are also the backbone of a lot of deals and nothing is for free. Jon decided to bend the knee in return for Dany's help. Why would the Vale not ask for something similar? They are under no obligation to freely provide help and LF is not around. The Vale army is not Sansa's, it's SR's. And we will see next season what he has to say about that.

37 minutes ago, SeanC said:

It doesn’t, though.  That part of the leak claims slavery still exists in Volantis, when Season 5’s ending featured the Volantenes surrendering to Dany.

And GRRM has always said that Essos isn’t important on its own, so it’s improbable that Dany’s ending is to go back there. 

That could be D&D's take on why Dany goes to Essos. I was just saying that I can understand Dany going back to save slaves if - as per D&D - slavers have taken back power in Volantis.  She's the type of person that would want to help them. In the books, Essos may not be important on it's own, just as a place for Dany to go to - maybe she goes to Braavos to a house with a red door and lemon trees. Though, the last time we left Essos in ADwD, the cities Dany liberated there were in a bit of a mess as well. With the slavers fighting back.

Edited July 6, 2018 by anamika

[Eyes High]

More smoke at the KL set:

A_red_priestess says that Wednesday was Kit's last day of filming and today was Maisie's last day. She doesn't think that Liam and Peter are still filming. (Peter Dinklage was spotted at Dublin today, but you'd think he would have flown into Belfast if it had something to do with filming.)

[glowbug]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

Plus the whole 55 day nightshoot was not just at Moneyglass on the WF set. They were filming a lot of the time in front of giant green screens with lots of snow that can be anywhere. Did we not see some wolf like props near the green screens? Could be -"A hungry pack of wolves intercepts the zombie army and they tear a lot of them apart.". Nymeria and her pack is hanging around the Riverlands on the show.

Everywhere in Westeros is going to be dark with lots of snow.  The Golden Company attack could very well be in Riverun - makes more sense than the Golden Company going all that way up North without Jon/North not knowing. After Jon says that no army can attack them in the North.

I am not going to rule out 3 battles as the AOTD moves south. With Edmure showing up in KL, it means Riverrun is back in play. Plus Kit and NCW have been seen hanging out in Belfast and filming at the same time. I think Jaime/Brienne fighting scenes could also be in Riverrun.

As per those leaks, SR, Sansa, Tyrion and Brienne are all in KL when the AOTD attack - matches with Seville filming information of these actors with body doubles.

As per the leaks, Northerners and Riverland folks participate in the KL battle - explains Tobias Menzies in Seville.

The leaks mention a scene where Cersei has people as hostages in the dragonpit (including Missandei) and Greyworm infiltrates the place to rescue them. We know that Jacob Anderson filmed some stunt scenes in Seville. There was that huge stage that was being set up in the dragonpit.

There's a FM assassin - in the leaks it's Jaqen which they could easily change to the Waif - running around in KL after Brienne. Both Gwen and Faye were in Seville.

Bran is in WF but all over KL watching everything that's happening and  warging from body to body when the NK fights Jon (Vladimir and Kit were in Seville)- this could explain Isaac in seville and Boatsexbaby's 'Astral projection' suggestion.

As per this leak, Dany is not anywhere near the Red Keep or the Dragonpit when all this happens - explains why Emilia was not in Seville with the rest of the gang. She is on Drogon and then lands and is watching from afar.

Dany also leaves for Essos at the very end - could explain the last scene Emilia shot in Dubrovnik.

Remember that these leaks were published on Freefolk nearly 10 months ago.

The leaks say this was from June 2017, so they may have made some changes. I think Tormund/Pod could be dying early to have some casualties in the WF battle. That script could be more streamlined and characters exchanged or killed off sooner. Yara with the mutilated face is also iffy, but I am not sure if Gemma Whelan actually did any filming in Seville or was just there with her baby for a visit.  There is a Sansa-Cersei confrontation scene in this leak which D&D could have exchanged with Jon-Cersei considering D&D mentioned that these two have a very interesting scene between them.

And I don't know, but these leaks just seem like classic D&D - if it's false, this is some good stuff.

 1. Lots of big battles - something Sophie Turner brought up - that could explain all the time Maisie has put in. Arya does not do much in this leak except pop up and kill people - but that's pretty much D&D's interpretation of her. I think Arya will just be doing a lot of fighting with 3 battles on the horizon. 

2. Arya and the Hound joking about chicken. The Hound using the word Cunt - Typical D&D fanservice like the rowing joke.

3. " Jamie has a long scene with Bran in his room. He is about to confess what he did when bran says he already knows. He thanks Jamie for pushing him off the window, otherwise he would not have become the three-eyed raven. " - CLASSIC D&D!

4. Tyrion's 'betrayal' is that he keeps some info from Dany  -  exactly how D&D would write any betrayal arc considering white knight Tyrion on the show

5. Best politician, super diplomat Sansa making an appearance - D&D have to showcase their fave. But Sansa handing out the Vale food supplies to the starving people of KL may actually be a book plot - does she not observe Margaery give food to the KL people and think that very clever? I think Sansa is joining back with her book plot next season after a long detour to the North.

6. Ghost shows up for a cameo at the very end - TYPICAL D&D

And the ending follows through from last season. I just can't see the resurrected Jon surviving. Same with Jaime/Cersei. Brienne dying is a surprise and very sad. The time jump into the future. Dany leaving for Essos to go help the slaves  also makes sense. She lost her dragons but has a child and Jorah seems to be sticking around. The last shot on the Weirwood tree symbolizing Bran.  Arya in Winterfell with Ghost. The ending suggests that she wants to see the world and travel for a bit - did not GRRM talk about writing Arya's adventures in Braavos in the future?

I can see Sansa as Lady of the Vale in the books - like a stronger, better Lysa Aryn - once SweetRobin is killed off. Maybe the Hound sticks around there for a little rompy pompy fun. The leaks seem to suggest that she co-rules with Tyrion until Jon and Dany's child comes of age.  I don't know how GRRM handles this. I can see Tyrion or Arya guiding Jon and Dany's child in the books.  The Iron Throne is melted down and everyone gets busy rebuilding Westeros. Edmure has the Riverlands, Gendry the Stormlands, Sam the Reach, Tyrion the Westerlands, Yara/Theon the Iron Islands and no one really cares about Dorne.

It does feel like a dream of spring. Sad and at the same time looking to the future. A happy ending on reflection?

So if this is D&D's ending, I can sort of connect the dots and imagine where GRRM maybe going as well.

I’ve been wondering about the same thing. I don’t really want this leak to be true because I have some issues with how things turn out but it does line up with the filming spoilers. 

[nikma]

I feeI like everything you don't like is "classic D&D". LOL

[Sunshinegal]

12 hours ago, Callista said:

The show writers seem to have made Dany fireproof, though, so if she ever sacrifices herself it probably wouldn't be by burning herself. Also, I'm curious: why do you think "the two previous WTF moments pertain to Dany" in particular? Why not to Jon, Bran, Jaime, etc.?

I also noticed that with the two previous WTF moments, the people sacrificed (Shireen and Hodor) didn't sacrifice themselves of their own free will. Stannis and Bran-Meera made those decisions for them. So if the third WTF moment is also a sacrifice, it might involve someone sacrificing another innocent person. Is this perhaps why you think it's possible Dany would sacrifice herself while pregnant--her baby would be the innocent victim? Just wondering.

I see Dany sort of following in Stannis's footsteps in that they both originally were fighting for the Iron Throne, then went North, saw the real threat and are now focusing on fighting the real threat.  Also, I don't trust Mel when she brought "fire and ice" together.  I'm afraid that Dany might trust her. 

[Eyes High]

According to /BoatsexBaby, the makeup department wrapped today, but principal photography has not, which means more still shots for VFX and establishing location shots.

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think that the WTF twists are things that D&D can cheerfully confirm are from the books because they’re separate from the main storylines and don’t really “spoil” anything else, so I think that the last WTF twist will also be something “separate” and self-contained, so it probably doesn’t involve anything that would affect the main storyline. So no more secret Targs, no weird sudden endgame pairings for the main characters, etc. etc. It likely involves a relatively minor character, but not so minor that GRRM probably doesn’t know what will happen to that character (like Bronn or possibly the Hound). And of course it will be a character who’s still alive in the show by the end, who hasn’t already been killed off in the books (such as Beric) and who hasn’t been so dramatically altered in the adaptation that they’re pretty much a different character (Missandei).

So eliminating Sandor, Bronn, Missandei, Grey Worm, the likely members of S8’s death list—Jaime, Cersei, the Mountain, Pod, Tormund, Beric, Qyburn, Euron, Varys, Jorah, and Melisandre—as well as the central characters—-Starklings, Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Sam—whom does that leave? Davos, Gendry and Gilly.

Davos is the endgame Hand, maybe...? Although that would definitely spoil quite a bit.

Gendry’s tricky, because he’s a composite of two characters from the books.

I think Gilly is a potential member of S8’s death list, so not sure about her.

I think the WTF will be related to the AOTD, the NK, or Bran.

It could be Melisandre, if she can really turn the dead against the NK. Imagine the reaction of people who didn't have any filming spoilers.

It could be "kill the NK, kill all the wights"; but D&D Chekov-gunned it because othewise, even if it's indeed GRRM's plan, many would wail "OMG clicheyyyyyy! D&D are haaaaacks!" before Dumb Cunt and his little undead friends even hit the ground. Or the WTF could be in how the NK will be killed off (Catspaw playing a role?).

I don't think that Davos as the endgame Hand would be a WTF. If most people expect Jon/Dany to rule, the logical Hand is either Davos or Tyrion.

Gendry isn't what I'd call a composite of two characters. He doesn't have anything of Edric's personality or history. He's the bastard that count so Edric was culled and his only significant storyline was given to Gendry. But it was just a detour, since where Gendry is right now on the show seems logical considering where he was in the books. I can see two WTF about him 1) whatever weapon he devises 2) he ends up on the throne. The latter would certainly threw people in for a loop.

Gilly is a character I see as safe. Sam would be destroyed if she died and somehow I don't think a tragedy will befall the closest thing to an "ordinary" character / audience by proxy.

Tinfoil time. Could Bran turn crazy evil for a while during the fight against the NK, and then come back to his senses? It would be a giganormous WTF. Although of course, Hodor already served as a cautionary tale when it comes to Bran drowning his his powers.

[MarySNJ]

55 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Gendry isn't what I'd call a composite of two characters. He doesn't have anything of Edric's personality or history. He's the bastard that count so Edric was culled and his only significant storyline was given to Gendry. But it was just a detour, since where Gendry is right now on the show seems logical considering where he was in the books. I can see two WTF about him 1) whatever weapon he devises 2) he ends up on the throne. The latter would certainly threw people in for a loop.

For a while Melisandre was lobbying Stannis to sacrifice Edric and he’s sent away to prevent that. I do think that’s where TV-Gendry is a composite of the 2 characters. 

I don’t think there’s any WTFery about TV-Gendry though. I think he was a fan favorite who was brought backm but he doesn’t fulfill any substantive purpose other than someone who had connections to the other noble families (Starks, Baratheon) with some useful skills that might help and to show what it’s like to be a lowborn bastard of royal parentage. 

[Sunshinegal]

37 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Gendry isn't what I'd call a composite of two characters. He doesn't have anything of Edric's personality or history. He's the bastard that count so Edric was culled and his only significant storyline was given to Gendry. But it was just a detour, since where Gendry is right now on the show seems logical considering where he was in the books. I can see two WTF about him 1) whatever weapon he devises 2) he ends up on the throne. The latter would certainly threw people in for a loop.

Actually if Gendry ends up on the throne (a big if in my opinion) I think the WTF moment will be that Gendry inherits the throne through his mother and not through Robert.  I have an outlandish theory that Gendry is a Blackfyre.  I can't figure out why Varys would save Gendry over Barra in the books.  Or why he paid Yoren a bag of gold to take Gendry when he didn't have to (the Night Watch is hurting for recruits and would take just about anyone).  And he wasn't useful to his schemes anymore especially since he knew about Edric who would be more useful to him since Edric is an acknowledged bastard who was raised with a lord's education, noble on both sides and looks like Robert.  And we know very little about Gendry's mother. 

Also how will Varys betray Dany on the show.  She's working together with Jon to save the realm and most likely is pregnant by him.  I doubt he will betray Dany for Cersei.  But he can betray Dany if it involves family.  I think it will be interesting if Varys actually cares about someone on a personal level.

The War of the Roses ended when Henry Tudor ascended the throne.  His claim to the throne came from his mother Margaret Beaufort not through his father Edmund Tudor.  The Beauforts are a bastard line of the royal family (descendants of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford who were legitimized after their four children were adults).  As I recall all of Aegon's V bastard children were legitimized on his deathbed.

I know this theory is tinfoilery.  I know I can be very wrong.  It's a guess on my part. If true it would be a big twist. 

[shireenbamfatheon]

57 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

Also how will Varys betray Dany on the show.  She's working together with Jon to save the realm and most likely is pregnant by him.  I doubt he will betray Dany for Cersei.  But he can betray Dany if it involves family.  I think it will be interesting if Varys actually cares about someone on a personal level.

The War of the Roses ended when Henry Tudor ascended the throne.  His claim to the throne came from his mother Margaret Beaufort not through his father Edmund Tudor.  The Beauforts are a bastard line of the royal family (descendants of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford who were legitimized after their four children were adults).  As I recall all of Aegon's V bastard children were legitimized on his deathbed.

I know this theory is tinfoilery.  I know I can be very wrong.  It's a guess on my part. If true it would be a big twist. 

1

Could be that Varys betrays Dany for Jon without the latter's knowledge. After all, he's supporting an Aegon in the books. 

I really hope the third wtf moment isn't related to Bran. After they killed his personality, it won't have the same impact if he decides to genocide King's Landing or something equally heinous. I can't even mourn the kid he used to be because the last time he had any personality was in season three. There's just no emotional attachment and I think most of the audience feels the same. But I hope it's something that makes sense and isn't just there as a last-minute surprise. I thought the burning of Shireen was handled horribly on the show and hope it's closer to the Hodor revelation in terms of impact. 

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

For a while Melisandre was lobbying Stannis to sacrifice Edric and he’s sent away to prevent that. I do think that’s where TV-Gendry is a composite of the 2 characters.

That's what I meant by "Edric's only significant storyline". He isn't important as a character but the fact that Stannis was willing to sacrifice his nephew and the fact that Davos made him escape counted in the grand scheme of things -it was setting up Stannis' fall etc. The character could be dropped, not this specific storyline. So it was given to Gendry because the audience was familiar with him and/or he's going to play another role at one point.

"Composite" would be for me someone like Ellaria, who is a combination of her book self and Ariane. Gendry has Gendry's background, Gendry's most important connections (Arya, Brotherhood) and his storyline as well as the acquaintances he made in S7 are more likely to be his future own than exiled in Essos Edric's in the books.  He has Gendry's temper: and Show Gendry being less angry than Book Gendry upon his return pertains more to no Stoneheart than to any personality streak he could have borrowed from Edric. It's like when Sansa was given Jeyne's WF storyline, she stayed "Sansa Stark".

I do agree that Gendry is more likely to play a role thanks to his skills. There's also a probability that his connection to Arya in particular will come into play.

2 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

Actually if Gendry ends up on the throne (a big if in my opinion) I think the WTF moment will be that Gendry inherits the throne through his mother and not through Robert.  I have an outlandish theory that Gendry is a Blackfyre.  I can't figure out why Varys would save Gendry over Barra in the books.  Or why he paid Yoren a bag of gold to take Gendry when he didn't have to (the Night Watch is hurting for recruits and would take just about anyone).  And he wasn't useful to his schemes anymore especially since he knew about Edric who would be more useful to him since Edric is an acknowledged bastard who was raised with a lord's education, noble on both sides and looks like Robert.  And we know very little about Gendry's mother.

Same, Gendry on the throne is a big or rather enormous "if" for me, in the sense that I can't say there's zero possibility but I don't believe it will happen. Imo, ironically Varys saved Gendry in the books for reasons that were given on the show (remorse re: Mad King's crimes) and also because he's a Baratheon by blood and the son of a king might be an interesting pawn at one point -especially a legit one, unlike fAegon.

1 hour ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Could be that Varys betrays Dany for Jon without the latter's knowledge. After all, he's supporting an Aegon in the books. 

I really hope the third wtf moment isn't related to Bran. After they killed his personality, it won't have the same impact if he decides to genocide King's Landing or something equally heinous. I can't even mourn the kid he used to be because the last time he had any personality was in season three. There's just no emotional attachment and I think most of the audience feels the same. But I hope it's something that makes sense and isn't just there as a last-minute surprise.

Varys would be a more believable "traitor" than Tyrion, for me at least.

The fact that they killed Bran's personality on the show is precisely what makes me grab my crackpipe and wonder. He's an OG5, the one with the most arduous storyline to express onscreen, many complained it was boring; and yet I have the feeling that D&D didn't put as many efforts in trying to make the audience root for him as they did for the others. I agree about no emotional attachment and my question is, was it deliberate? If so, was it to prepare the audience to something wrong with him?

OTOH, I felt that Bran was retrieving some humanity here and there along S7 (hugging Arya back, the humorous moment with Sam) so imo, he could fake his lack of emotion or slowly reconnect with his personality and the real Brandon Stark might stand up in S8. Maybe also, something "cute" or widely theorized like Bran warging Viserion to take him away from the NK would be considered a WTF by mainstream audiences.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

According to /BoatsexBaby, the makeup department wrapped today, but principal photography has not, which means more still shots for VFX and establishing location shots.

Better pic: 

Edited July 7, 2018 by GrailKing

[anamika]

9 hours ago, glowbug said:

I’ve been wondering about the same thing. I don’t really want this leak to be true because I have some issues with how things turn out but it does line up with the filming spoilers. 

Yeah, this is the first time something actually lines up with some of the filming spoilers. Someone pointed this out when Seville filming was going on.  I ignored it at that time because all Arya did was appear a few times, wear a face and kill someone and I thought that GRRM's Arya would have more to do than that. Now that I know this is D&D's take on the ending, it makes sense. I really don't see D&D giving Arya anything other than a lot of fighting. Sansa is their important Stark and I think that will be reflected in their writing. I can see Arya fighting with her wolf pack in the Riverlands.

Jon has been on my death list for quite some time ever since he was assassinated and GRRM's insistence that Jon will come back differently. I have always thought that his lineage will only be important in regards to the conflict that it creates and him riding dragons and the leak points to both. His leadership, pragmatism and political knowledge in the books will be important as he unites the realm against the Others. 

IMO, two things point to Jon dying:

 - D&D's insistence that Jon is an idiot and sucks at politics indicates that he is not ruling at the end

 - GRRM's original outline. As quite a few folks on here already know, I think the original outline is still relevant for GRRM's planned ending. And I have always maintained that the change from Jon-Arya to Jon-Dany does not matter because Jon's ending is still going to be the same - Death. Notice how Arya and Dany's endings are eerily similar in this leak - both rule for a time (KL, North) and then go off to Essos.

Dany has been harder to pinpoint. D&D have been telling us last season through Tyrion and Varys that Dany is impulsive and more of a conqueror than a ruler. Her story next season seems to be about getting the love and respect of the people of Westeros - again this follows through from last season. She gets the Iron Throne in the end. But I can see her being dissatisfied with ruling. A bit like Robert Baratheon.  And going off to save the world once again - helping slaves in Essos.

Arya. I have always seen her in the North and in Winterfell. She's had a connection to the small folk, an understanding of how the North works, a leader of the people story arc in the books. The leaks seem to be putting her in charge of Winterfell at the end there and that makes sense. I can also see her feeling lonely after several years, without Jon or any of her family there and going on a little adventure trip to Essos. She and Gendry may fight together and have some fun scenes, but at the end of the day, their futures are separate.

Tyrion.  In the books, I expect conflict between Jon, Dany and Tyrion. A conflict that will eventually be resolved. So Tyrion and Varys wanting Jon to become King as opposed to Dany and keeping things from her could be Dany's betrayal on the show. They have already laid the seeds for this conflict last season.  I can see him in Casterly Rock at the end - dying in his bed of old age. Taking charge of rebuilding Westeros because he's smart and the best person to do that really as Kit Harington says.

"How would you like to die, Tyrion son of Tywin?" "In my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a maiden's mouth around my cock, at the age of eighty," he replied.”.

Sansa's story for me has always been in the south. It's her learning from LF and possibly becoming a Lady Olenna type character. Her emulating Margaery and winning over the people of KL with food is the first time that Sansa's plot makes sense to me and that's refreshing. For the first time she puts into practice something she learned and that's the character development and growth I was looking for. And if she confronts Cersei as Queen of the Vale - maybe there's the book YMBQ prophecy.  It makes sense for D&D to put Sansa in charge along with Tyrion. They were pushing the 'Leader Sansa' stuff really hard last season. 

Jaime and Cersei have always been doomed. In recent interviews NCW has mentioned how there is still a connection between Jaime and Cersei. Maybe Brienne's death is what triggers Jaime into killing Cersei. I can see Cersei lasting till the very end in D&D's version and she does here.  J and B ashes being scattered in Tarth because Jaime did not like being a Lannister. Sniff.

And finally Bran. Looks like Jon and Bran, the two characters most closely associated with the Others , take down the NK together in the end and perish together. If this is GRRM's ending - it could be the third WTF moment D&D are talking about. Jon kills Bran when he kills the NK. It could be very much like a Hodor situation. The story starts with a Bran POV of Jon and it ends with them dying together. Jon/Bran has been an underrated relationship, but after Jon/Arya they are one of the closest siblings in the books - "Don’t look away... Father will know if you do." The last shot being a Weirwood tree, possibly Bran, with the red tears...sniff.

But we have a little Targ baby, the start of new times and the dream of spring. The Iron Throne has been melted down and now there is more of an union of kingdoms with equal representation - sort of like the EU. I think the show will leave a lot of things unsaid - like succession and who becomes Lord/Lady of this or that. I am guessing that all this will be very different in the books considering the characters absent in the show or killed off . For example, I could see Edric Storm end up as the Baratheon bastard with the Stormlands in the books. He has the education and upbringing for it. On the show, it's Gendry.

So yeah. Maybe these spoilers are false and nothing of all this is true. But I could see this ending happening on the show. There is nothing in there that is terribly fantastical or really impossible. And it matches with D&D's interpretation of things as well.

So does this feel like the Scouring of the Shire? More bitter than sweet? What endings do you guys envision for the different characters?

Edited July 7, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

36 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sansa's story for me has always been in the south. It's her learning from LF and possibly becoming a Lady Olenna type character in the South.

In show I see her as QOT type in the North, if Bran dies and Arya wants to travel, or if KL is totally destroyed and the new capitol is Winterfell.

In book we got the will situation;  I have no doubt she's going to rank high and be important where is the question, her show version is meeting her book version how it's tied together will be the question I want to know ( read ) about.

[glowbug]

I remember first reading those leaks back during the Seville filming too. Someone brought them up here because those leaks said that Jaquen would be in King’s Landing and the actor (along with the Waif who isn’t mentioned in the leaks) both showed up in Seville. When I read the leaks I thought they sounded realistic, like something the writers of the show would write, and the fact that the leaker said that Jaquen would be in King’s Landing, which has not been a popular theory, made them seem believable. If this leak is completely fake then the leaker did a good job of being consistent with TPTB’s writing and plotting, and was lucky that the filming spoilers were pretty consistent with what they wrote.

Some things don’t make sense like Jon and Dany’s baby being the Prince that was Promised (I don’t see how he or she would fit the prophecy of either Azor Ahai or TPTP at all) or Jon being happy that he’s dying after fathering a bastard, exactly what he was afraid of (maybe he and Dany do marry and the leaker forgot to mention it), and that his bastard will grow up without his father like Jon grew up without his mother (or his father, but he didn’t know that). Maybe some of this makes sense with more context or maybe it doesn’t. It seems that every season there are a few plot points that don’t make sense to the majority of viewers, at least those who post on this forum.

Sansa ending up back in the Vale aligns with her book plot. It seems that either she does marry Robert or Harry the Heir in the books (in either case she’d end up with Robert in the show since Harry doesn’t exist). This isn’t to say she doesn’t go north in the books but that if she does she’ll be Lady Regent of the Vale (whether she’s married to Robin or Harry). It makes sense if the popular theory that she kills Littlefinger at Winterfell based on the prophecy is true. Littlefinger doesn’t plan on taking her north until she is Lady Regent of the Vale. The ending also makes sense if Bran’s chapter is the last chapter of the series (I thought GRRM had said it would start and end with him but maybe I’m misremembering and that’s just another fan theory). Bran’s last chapter would be him as the Three Eyed Raven. That would be a good way for GRRM to present his epilogue. Since that wouldn’t translate very well on screen, showing the epilogue and then ending with Arya/Sansa telling the audience Bran still exists as the Three Eyed Raven and hinting at it with having the Weirwood weep also makes sense. 

Overall, I find the leak plausible, although it wouldn’t be shocking if it turned out to be fake since we got far fewer filming spoilers than we did last season to compare to Lads’ leaks. We’ll just have to wait and find out. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by glowbug

[WindyNights]

10 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I think the WTF will be related to the AOTD, the NK, or Bran.

It could be Melisandre, if she can really turn the dead against the NK. Imagine the reaction of people who didn't have any filming spoilers.

It could be "kill the NK, kill all the wights"; but D&D Chekov-gunned it because othewise, even if it's indeed GRRM's plan, many would wail "OMG clicheyyyyyy! D&D are haaaaacks!" before Dumb Cunt and his little undead friends even hit the ground. Or the WTF could be in how the NK will be killed off (Catspaw playing a role?).

I don't think that Davos as the endgame Hand would be a WTF. If most people expect Jon/Dany to rule, the logical Hand is either Davos or Tyrion.

Gendry isn't what I'd call a composite of two characters. He doesn't have anything of Edric's personality or history. He's the bastard that count so Edric was culled and his only significant storyline was given to Gendry. But it was just a detour, since where Gendry is right now on the show seems logical considering where he was in the books. I can see two WTF about him 1) whatever weapon he devises 2) he ends up on the throne. The latter would certainly threw people in for a loop.

Gilly is a character I see as safe. Sam would be destroyed if she died and somehow I don't think a tragedy will befall the closest thing to an "ordinary" character / audience by proxy.

Tinfoil time. Could Bran turn crazy evil for a while during the fight against the NK, and then come back to his senses? It would be a giganormous WTF. Although of course, Hodor already served as a cautionary tale when it comes to Bran drowning his his powers.

Show Gendry isn't really anything like Book Gendry. Like Show Gendry loves Robert and he's kind of a naïf. He even uses a hammer as his main weapon. That's actually very Edric Storm.

Book Gendry is this angry outlaw knight that worships R'hllor and hates Robert Baratheon. He uses a sword to fight. He'd probably hate the fact that Robert was his dad.(He calls Robert a fat sot and talks about how he'd kick his father's ass if he could not knowing they're the same person)

[WindyNights]

8 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

Actually if Gendry ends up on the throne (a big if in my opinion) I think the WTF moment will be that Gendry inherits the throne through his mother and not through Robert.  I have an outlandish theory that Gendry is a Blackfyre.  I can't figure out why Varys would save Gendry over Barra in the books.  Or why he paid Yoren a bag of gold to take Gendry when he didn't have to (the Night Watch is hurting for recruits and would take just about anyone).  And he wasn't useful to his schemes anymore especially since he knew about Edric who would be more useful to him since Edric is an acknowledged bastard who was raised with a lord's education, noble on both sides and looks like Robert.  And we know very little about Gendry's mother. 

Also how will Varys betray Dany on the show.  She's working together with Jon to save the realm and most likely is pregnant by him.  I doubt he will betray Dany for Cersei.  But he can betray Dany if it involves family.  I think it will be interesting if Varys actually cares about someone on a personal level.

The War of the Roses ended when Henry Tudor ascended the throne.  His claim to the throne came from his mother Margaret Beaufort not through his father Edmund Tudor.  The Beauforts are a bastard line of the royal family (descendants of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford who were legitimized after their four children were adults).  As I recall all of Aegon's V bastard children were legitimized on his deathbed.

I know this theory is tinfoilery.  I know I can be very wrong.  It's a guess on my part. If true it would be a big twist. 

I mean the Henry Tudor analogue is a character that was never adapted from the books. Young Griff (part Henry Tudor and part Perkin Warbeck)

 

And GRRM prefers Richard III to Henry Tudor so that should tell you all you need to know about how in his story, Henry Tudor doesn't succeed.

[Eyes High]

On 2018-07-05 at 8:58 PM, anamika said:

I am going to bring this back since I think there is a chance this is true and it jives with filming spoilers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6x8zyo/season_8_general_outlinejuly_17_script/

It's classic D&D. It has all the elements of a D&D story in there. There is SweetRobin, Edmure and FM assassin in KL - aligning with Seville filming - and this was written 10 months ago. This is the ending:

There is no Iron Throne. Tyrion and Sansa lead the new Westeros. Arya/Ghost in Winterfell. Bran disappears. Dany leaves for Essos. Jon dies.

Unpredictable? I could see that if the majority think that Jon/Dany are going to rule. A happy ending on reflection? I can also see that. Bittersweet? Yes.

 

There are a lot of issues with those alleged spoilers, but the biggest problem is that there is no battle at Winterfell (north of Winterfell, but not at Winterfell).

Also, GRRM’s outline said that Jon and Bran would make it.

3 hours ago, WindyNights said:

I mean the Henry Tudor analogue is a character that was never adapted from the books. Young Griff (part Henry Tudor and part Perkin Warbeck)

 

And GRRM prefers Richard III to Henry Tudor so that should tell you all you need to know about how in his story, Henry Tudor doesn't succeed.

If ASOIAF boils down to GRRM’s fix it fic for the WOTR, then Tyrion (Richard III) is going to be the endgame king.

Dany’s the closest analogue to Henry Tudor in my opinion, and Jon in the show would be a convincing Elizabeth of York figure in that he has a claim to the throne and marrying him would unite their competing claims. I somehow doubt ASOIAF is going to end with Tyrion defeating Dany and marrying Jon.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, anamika said:

Yeah, this is the first time something actually lines up with some of the filming spoilers. Someone pointed this out when Seville filming was going on.  I ignored it at that time because all Arya did was appear a few times, wear a face and kill someone and I thought that GRRM's Arya would have more to do than that.

 

Considering the amount of filming that Maisie did, I think Arya is going to do much more than that. It's imo supported and hinted by her sparring session with Brienne, since it established her as a very able fighter and not "only" as a stealth assassin who wouldn't hold her own in a conventional battle -a recurring fanon theory debunked. 

The only fleaks that ever seemed half believable to me were one of the first (littlejonsnow? or some name like that); they were logical, reasonably surprising, but not aiming at righting the "wrongs" of D&D's adaptation and vindicating part of the fandom (even if they were false, it was imo a good job). I'm certain that the dozen or so of fleakers will all hit the bull's eye with one or two of their predictions, out of pure luck. Now that filming is over, nothing is believable anyway unless someone gets concrete evidence like a script; imo until Frikidoktor gets his usual legit info pre-episode.

GoT is eligible for the Emmys but it's been a year since the season aired; and buzz is important to win. I hope HBO will push for some footage/teaser in late August/beginning of September in order to achieve that.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[Eyes High]

43 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

The only fleaks that ever seemed half believable to me were one of the first (littlejonsnow? or some name like that); they were logical, reasonably surprising, but not aiming at righting the "wrongs" of D&D's adaptation and vindicating part of the fandom (even if they were false, it was imo a good job). I'm certain that the dozen or so of fleakers will all hit the bull's eye with one or two of their predictions, out of pure luck. Now that filming is over, nothing is believable anyway unless someone gets concrete evidence like a script; imo until Frikidoktor gets his usual legit info pre-episode.

We may also get nudity spoilers from Recapped, but I doubt there will be much in that department in S8, other than in a brothel scene (since Marei’s actress is back for S8). Maybe we’ll get a few sex scenes...?

/Claytoy (whose Reddit user page doesn’t load for some reason) previously said that they had a connection at HBO India who said that the final season was very satisfying. Apparently this same connection said that there was a clue in the episode title The Battle of the Bastards (or words to that effect). /Claytoy has been posting at /Freefolk for a while so this isn’t the usual drive-by foiler /Freefolk usually sees. 

[anamika]

7 hours ago, glowbug said:

Some things don’t make sense like Jon and Dany’s baby being the Prince that was Promised (I don’t see how he or she would fit the prophecy of either Azor Ahai or TPTP at all) or Jon being happy that he’s dying after fathering a bastard, exactly what he was afraid of (maybe he and Dany do marry and the leaker forgot to mention it), and that his bastard will grow up without his father like Jon grew up without his mother (or his father, but he didn’t know that). Maybe some of this makes sense with more context or maybe it doesn’t. It seems that every season there are a few plot points that don’t make sense to the majority of viewers, at least those who post on this forum.

I think if this leak is true and this is an early script, then there could be changes. Tormund and Pod hanging out till the very end does not jive with filming spoilers. I think they go out early. Battle in the north could include a Winterfell Battle after which everyone evacuates south. Jon and Dany could get married. I agree that Jon would not be happy about siring a bastard in the books, but I doubt D&D care about such character complexities. But if the baby is going to rule as that script suggests, then it should surely be legitimate. Maybe Jon and Dany have a Riverlands wedding like Robb/Talisa.

52 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

/Claytoy (whose Reddit user page doesn’t load for some reason) previously said that they had a connection at HBO India who said that the final season was very satisfying.

Guy in HBO India is not going to know anything about the show, until it's all finished filming, edited, special effects put in and send to India to be aired. HBO India is just a distribution agent that is in charge of HBO in India. He's not going to be knowing anything about the finer points of GOT. I think only the top guys at HBO know how the show ends?  And besides 'Satisfying' is pretty much what most of the actors have said.

HBO India will be only useful if someone working there or at their partner companies leaks the episode early like they did last time. Someone got arrested for it last time, so I doubt it's happening again.

[GraceK]

Filming is officially over!

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-thrones-filming-ends-forever-season-eight-wrap/#more-164684

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

We may also get nudity spoilers from Recapped, but I doubt there will be much in that department in S8, other than in a brothel scene (since Marei’s actress is back for S8). Maybe we’ll get a few sex scenes...?

Probably a couple, at least one imo. Although -thankfully- the show has toned down the sexposition in later seasons, there were still three rather explicit sex scenes in S7 after all.

Purely for the lulz: The Battle of the Bastards = TBTB = The Beauty and The Beast = Jaime/Brienne on the throoone!!!! (I just made a bet with myself.)

Edited July 7, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[anamika]

End of an era for these guys. I am sort of feeling sad. I can't imagine how they are feeling.

Last woman standing.

[nikma]

It's Deathly Hallows Part 2 all over again LOL. 

[WindyNights]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

There are a lot of issues with those alleged spoilers, but the biggest problem is that there is no battle at Winterfell (north of Winterfell, but not at Winterfell).

Also, GRRM’s outline said that Jon and Bran would make it.

If ASOIAF boils down to GRRM’s fix it fic for the WOTR, then Tyrion (Richard III) is going to be the endgame king.

Dany’s the closest analogue to Henry Tudor in my opinion, and Jon in the show would be a convincing Elizabeth of York figure in that he has a claim to the throne and marrying him would unite their competing claims. I somehow doubt ASOIAF is going to end with Tyrion defeating Dany and marrying Jon.

 

For all functions and purposes, Bran's already dead within the show. Meera even says that he died in that cave.

Anyways, Daenerys Targaryen is inspired by Stuart princesses according to GRRM. 

And Jon Snow is more fantasy than he is real life history.

Aegon's much closer to Henry Tudor than Daenerys is. Aegon's a Blackfyre through the maternal line and Henry Tudor was a Beaufort through his maternal line. 

The Beauforts and Blackfyres were legitimized but disinherited cadet branches of the Plantagenets and Targaryens. 

Wales = Stormlands/Dorne

Jasper Tudor = Jon Connington 

Margaret Beaufort= Varys 

etc.

 

I wouldn't doubt it if GRRM made Tyrion the ruling Hand. Like Jon Snow, Tyrion has also had kingly imagery applied to him.

Edited July 7, 2018 by WindyNights

[Eyes High]

6 hours ago, anamika said:

Guy in HBO India is not going to know anything about the show, until it's all finished filming, edited, special effects put in and send to India to be aired. HBO India is just a distribution agent that is in charge of HBO in India. He's not going to be knowing anything about the finer points of GOT.

Fair enough. The BOTB hint piqued my interest, but it's probably just fleaker bullshit (not necessarily /claytoy, who's been at /Freefolk a while, but whoever it is that's yanking their arm).

5 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Probably a couple, at least one imo. Although -thankfully- the show has toned down the sexposition in later seasons, there were still three rather explicit sex scenes in S7 after all.

 

We know there will be an attempted rape scene involving a character cast for Season 7 for which partial nudity was required, come to think of it.

Obviously Jon will prove his Targ heritage by walking naked from the flames, too, so there's that. 

2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

I wouldn't doubt it if GRRM made Tyrion the ruling Hand. Like Jon Snow, Tyrion has also had kingly imagery applied to him.

Sure, but Jon has gobs of king imagery in the books, whereas Tyrion only has...three, that I can think of: 1) standing tall as a king in AGOT, 2) Oberyn comparing him to Viserys II in ASOS, and 3) Tyrion naming himself after a king when using an alias in ADWD. That's it. Of course, several of the central female characters have queen imagery associated with them, and only one of them can end up as queen of Westeros (assuming there is one), so unless Westeros is divided into several kingdoms at the end, that imagery's unlikely to amount to much of anything in the end.

Tyrion's only real advantage is that GRRM loves Richard III and GRRM has indicated that Tyrion is the Richard III analogue.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

 

Sure, but Jon has gobs of king imagery in the books, whereas Tyrion only has...three, that I can think of: 1) standing tall as a king in AGOT, 2) Oberyn comparing him to Viserys II in ASOS, and 3) Tyrion naming himself after a king when using an alias in ADWD. That's it. Of course, several of the central female characters have queen imagery associated with them, and only one of them can end up as queen of Westeros (assuming there is one), so unless Westeros is divided into several kingdoms at the end, that imagery's unlikely to amount to much of anything in the end.

Tyrion's only real advantage is that GRRM loves Richard III and GRRM has indicated that Tyrion is the Richard III analogue.

You also have to take into account that Jon's kingly imagery could just be a reference to his future as King in the North or being Rhaegar's son aka his bloodline.

With Tyrion, he's no prince. He's the son of Lord Tywin. So why is Tyrion equated to a king?

But yes, Sansa and Arya could very well end up queens too if say Westeros splits or Jon and Dany die. Lot of ways that it could play out.

[Eyes High]

3 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

You also have to take into account that Jon's kingly imagery could just be a reference to his future as King in the North or being Rhaegar's son aka his bloodline.

With Tyrion, he's no prince. He's the son of Lord Tywin. So why is Tyrion equated to a king?

Good point. I also forgot that Tyrion has the same name as three Kings of the Rock. (He was probably named after Tyrion II, the "Tormentor.")

[SimoneS]

8 hours ago, anamika said:

 

So Game of Thrones has "ended." Now all that is left is any final scenes, editing and airing the episodes. 

[Wouter]

14 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Sure, but Jon has gobs of king imagery in the books, whereas Tyrion only has...three, that I can think of: 1) standing tall as a king in AGOT, 2) Oberyn comparing him to Viserys II in ASOS, and 3) Tyrion naming himself after a king when using an alias in ADWD. That's it.

 

There is also the infamous (Rhoyne) turtle in ADWD. Tyrion himself points to (f)Aegon, as this appearance would supposedly herald the birth/coming of a king. But since we know (f)Aegon is going to fall (one way or another), it's rather unlikely to be him that's being heralded by GRRM.

In the show, there is also the random red priestess who took notice of Tyrion on the long bridge of Volantis. A bit of a recall to Moqorro in the books.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Wouter

[bubble sparkly]

15 hours ago, Eyes High said:

We may also get nudity spoilers from Recapped, but I doubt there will be much in that department in S8, other than in a brothel scene (since Marei’s actress is back for S8). Maybe we’ll get a few sex scenes...?

Yeah I doubt s8 will be heavy on the sexy times.  I think we might get one D/J scene after Targ reveal / reconciliation / possible Dany preggo bomb, but other than that it may be pretty chaste.  I can see a Jaime and Brienne kiss, but I'm not sure about a full on love scene.  Missandei and Grey Worm got their moment last season, and they likely aren't big enough characters to warrant another one.  Maybe some kind of gross Euron and Cersei romp.....but eww.

So, unless the Dragonpit scenes in Seville with all the doubles were actually a massive orgy (I mean, this is GOT..), I expect there will be no time for love.  Although, the idea of a Sansa, Tyrion, Robyn and Brienne orgy is kind of hilarious.  Maybe Robyn can finally see the bad man fly lol?

[screamin]

On 7/3/2018 at 4:05 AM, anamika said:

I disagree. GRRM has no reason to bring back Sandor if he has no connection to Sansa's story. The books are already bloated with POVs and he has to start connecting main characters, tell their story and end the series.  Bringing back the Hound and spending entire chapters on him just for Cleganebowl is silly. Both the Mountain and the Hound are third tier characters.  If Sandor is back it's most likely so that GRRM can write a resolution to SanSan since Sansa is still dreaming of the Hound in the Vale. 

That's assuming that the Hound's only function in the story was simply as a Byronic romantic fantasy figure for Sansa. I think the long period he spent with Arya (with Sansa barely touched upon during that time) shows there's supposed to be more to his character than that. Not that I necessarily think that GRRM wrote that and his gravedigger interlude intending for certain that Sandor would come back kicking Frankenmountain ass and taking names - I think his 'gardener' approach to story writing means that he writes a lot of story 'buds' that he may or may not decide to return to later - like the story about Ned and the fisherman's daughter (I still think that story was too weirdly specific not to be intended to have some truth behind it) - like that annoying Darkstar - (who I devoutly hope he WON'T return to) and like our last glimpse of Sandor digging the grave. IMO, as long as the Mountain is a significant plot factor, so will Sandor potentially be one, if GRRM decides he needs a spectacular and overtly just desert for him. The showrunners may have simply decided to go with a potential plot point he clearly indicated as a possibility when the Hound kills the Mountain on the show...just as they ran with the "Joffrey abusing whores" possibility that GRRM merely touched on in the books.

On 7/3/2018 at 4:05 AM, anamika said:

It could be possible that we start seeing a different Jon Snow next season as the show tries to align with the books. I think that Jon Snow is dying at the end after his showdown with the NK. Plus, D&D's insistence that show Jon sucks at politics - as opposed to the book version  - makes me think that he is not going to be king or lead anything. Which means death it is.

I agree that Jon is most likely a goner (with a heroic end). I do think, though, that Jon's book assassination was indeed his spectacular fail at politics.

Edited July 8, 2018 by screamin

[SeanC]

Recapped's peak spoiler value was in Season 5, of course.  In terms of what they could say about Season 8 that would have meaningful story value, the thing that most comes to mind relates to the various speculations about the Stark girls' prospective love lives.  Sophie and Maisie are obviously not going to be doing nudity, but they could in theory have more discretely filmed sex scenes, and Recapped does mention stuff like that.  So if there is going to be anything involving Arya/Gendry or Sansa/the Hound, we could get an inkling about it there.

[nikma]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Sansa/the Hound,

No no no. Ugh.

[SeanC]

35 minutes ago, nikma said:

No no no. Ugh.

Heh, take it up with GRRM (assuming it happens), since it's all over the novels.

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Heh, take it up with GRRM (assuming it happens), since it's all over the novels.

D&D made mistakes but I'm glad they wrote Sandor as a character who is more than another Beauty & Beast plot device.

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

Recapped's peak spoiler value was in Season 5, of course.  In terms of what they could say about Season 8 that would have meaningful story value, the thing that most comes to mind relates to the various speculations about the Stark girls' prospective love lives.  Sophie and Maisie are obviously not going to be doing nudity, but they could in theory have more discretely filmed sex scenes, and Recapped does mention stuff like that.  So if there is going to be anything involving Arya/Gendry or Sansa/the Hound, we could get an inkling about it there.

It seems really gross and exploitative to me for Maisie or Sophie to have a sex scene when they were children when they started filming GOT, even though that hasn’t stopped D&D: Sophie’s already had to do an attempted rape scene and a rape scene.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

D&D made mistakes but I'm glad they wrote Sandor as a character who is more than another Beauty & Beast plot device.

As if the book Hound isn't more than that?  The book character has far more depth and range than the show's version (not unusual, of course, but nothing distinct either).

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It seems really gross and exploitative to me for Maisie or Sophie to have a sex scene when they were children when they started filming GOT, even though that hasn’t stopped D&D: Sophie’s already had to do an attempted rape scene and a rape scene.

I see it as something where either the existence or absence is telling, since one of the things we've been wondering about is whether those relationships are going to figure into the ending at all.  No news isn't the end of the line, of course, since it could just be confined to kissing or whatever else.

[Eyes High]

28 minutes ago, SeanC said:

As if the book Hound isn't more than that?  The book character has far more depth and range than the show's version (not unusual, of course, but nothing distinct either).

I see it as something where either the existence or absence is telling, since one of the things we've been wondering about is whether those relationships are going to figure into the ending at all.  No news isn't the end of the line, of course, since it could just be confined to kissing or whatever else.

There can be a sex scene without nudity (Sam/Gilly), they can do the kiss-cut-to-black thing, or they can just imply that characters had sex through dialogue...And indeed given the controversy over Sansa’s rape scene, D&D would likely favour the discreet approach. The absence of nudity spoilers wouldn’t rule anything out.