S03.E03: Kimmy Can't Help You!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A surprise visitor delivers divorce papers to Kimmy. Jacqueline comes up with a plan to get Russ's dad to rename the Redskins.

[Slovenly Muse]

Ha! I really liked this one. Kimmy's literal interpretation of college extra-curriculars was HILARIOUS! And I loved how they took to time to demonstrate that Wendy (and the weirdos like her) is not just some idiot who doesn't get that the Reverend is a bad person, but she's a deeply damaged individual who is trying to take care of herself in her own broken way. I'm not sure Kimmy did her a LOT of good by refusing the divorce, since Wendy seems to know exactly what she wants and could get it from more or less any inmate, but at least she gave Wendy a chance to find a better path, and wasn't party to something she knew was wrong.

As for Jacqueline marrying into the "Redskins" family? I am so curious to see where that plot line is going!

[SailorGirl]

Laura Dern looked freakin' fantastic -- I don't know if she was wearing a wig -- I thought her hair was much thinner -- but that hair worked on her! 

[Bec]

Seems to me Kimmy has to cut ties with the Reverend at some point. She can't stay married to him forever. What if she ever wants to get married?

Apparently Reverend has a fan club, so if it wasn't Wendy, it would be somebody else, is she planning to be his keeper for as long as they're both alive? (Which might not be long if one of his fans get crazy enough to kill her off - I would worry about these people knowing where I live if I were her.)

I'm not against Kimmy being a good person and putting her own gain aside in an attempt to help Wendy. I did feel sorry for Wendy. But Kimmy tried, it didn't work, that's enough. At some point you gotta realize you can't save some people from themselves and get on with your own life.

[mtlchick]

"It's like a Noel Coward play!"  "It is if he is a coward that constantly rapes you." 

Kimmy got DARK and I liked it.  Wendy sees a damaged soul that is slightly less messed up than her.  Kimmy will always see him as a man that took 15 years of her life and despite having a mostly sunny disposition now, has anger and resentment towards that will never go away.  I don't know how effective that will be by not granting the divorce, but I can see Kimmy eventually letting go because in the end, it won't let her move on.

 

Quote

Laura Dern looked freakin' fantastic 

This I agree to 100%.  

Edited May 23, 2017 by mtlchick

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

"It's like a Noel Coward play!"  "It is if he is a coward that constantly rapes you." 

I was surprised at Kimmy flat out saying that. I like the setup of Kimmy marrying the Reverend to try to protect Donna Maria and refusing to divorce him to protect Wendy. Nice symmetry. And Laura Dern was great, although it makes me sad that Kimmy couldn't get through to her. 

[Mindthinkr]

I lol'd at how she was fulfilling her extracurricular activities. Selfies in front of the UN building! My favorite was when she ticked community service after saving Wendy from the Reverend. Great episode. 

Agree with all the above compliments about Laura Dern. It's nice to see her back working in so many shows (LBL and this nugget) 

[Slovenly Muse]

19 hours ago, bettername2come said:

21 hours ago, mtlchick said:

"It's like a Noel Coward play!"  "It is if he is a coward that constantly rapes you." 

I was surprised at Kimmy flat out saying that.

Yes! Although there's been talk of the "weird sex stuff" in the bunker since the pilot, I believe this is the first time Kimmy has actually used the "R-word" to describe her relationship with the Reverand. I've always admired how the show has never shied away from the grim premise of women being kidnapped and held for 15 years, so I'm glad they REALLY made this clear and weren't afraid to say it.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Slovenly Muse said:

Yes! Although there's been talk of the "weird sex stuff" in the bunker since the pilot, I believe this is the first time Kimmy has actually used the "R-word" to describe her relationship with the Reverand. I've always admired how the show has never shied away from the grim premise of women being kidnapped and held for 15 years, so I'm glad they REALLY made this clear and weren't afraid to say it.

I think they mostly referenced the weird sex stuff in ways that implied it was between the women, so I think it was brave that they just said rape flat-out here.

Kimmy being honest about her really good frisbee cracked me up. The whole extracurricular montage was gold, as was Titus's reaction to Laura Dern's self-esteem issues. Him peering through his fingers at her cracked me up.

[tennisgurl]

I love seeing Laura Dern so much! Even her as a deeply dysfunctional woman who knows the Rev is probably a bad guy, but she figures its better than seeking anyone else who she needs to find out later is a bad person. She just nails the combination of comedy and tragedy that I think this character needed.

Wow, Kimmy finally tossed out the R word right there! I mean, we always knew that "weird sex stuff" happened, but just throwing out the word in such anger was brutal, but great to hear from Kimmy. She really is working through her stuff, and I like that the show, for as wacky as it is, never forgets about its super dark premises.

I couldn't stop giggling at Kimmys literally interpretation for extracurriculars! Especially Ultimate (I mean Really Good) Frisbee.

[Dots And Stripes]

I have no idea what Russ was trying to do with the proposal. His brother seems a lot like his father, so the abrupt change in plans feels odd. I'm also wondering if the hand signal was meant to be a signal or just Russ trying to move. I don't trust Russ at the moment. This also feels like another move to get David Cross off screen for a bit.

I also don't trust Wendy. Maybe she is just that crazy but I also wonder if those papers were really in Kimmy's best interest anyway. I agree with all the Laura Dean love. She was fantastic.

Three episodes in and Titus is my MVP of the season so far. He did have Kimmy's back and also tried to help Wendy. His reactions to everything were amazing.

[Eyes High]

On 5/21/2017 at 1:39 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

Yes! Although there's been talk of the "weird sex stuff" in the bunker since the pilot, I believe this is the first time Kimmy has actually used the "R-word" to describe her relationship with the Reverand. I've always admired how the show has never shied away from the grim premise of women being kidnapped and held for 15 years, so I'm glad they REALLY made this clear and weren't afraid to say it.

It is the first time. Robert Carlock talks about it here. I'm really glad they included the line as well.

[Ruby Gillis]

On 5/22/2017 at 2:29 PM, Eyes High said:

It is the first time. Robert Carlock talks about it here. I'm really glad they included the line as well.

I don't know how I feel.  Other than the line in the pilot and this episode, it doesn't feel like the sexual assault is written into the show at all.  I would have expected it to come in when Kimmy and Dong went to the hotel last season, but that episode made me assume that the weird sex stuff had either been dropped or been between the women.  John Hamm plays the reverend so goofy and comic that I feel icky now that the show confirmed he's a rapist.  Comedies can do dark storylines, but I don't think this works with the tone of the show.

[theatremouse]

I think they've done a fair amount of showing Kimmy having very negative reactions that it doesn't feel glossed over to me. It's not hammered, but it's there, more than just those two lines. It's the way Kemper plays it, not necessarily in dialogue.

[Bec]

Rapists who have any level of "success" getting away with being rapists tend to be guys who don't seem all that sinister on the surface.

A dude that's obviously scary is not going to have a lot of luck luring women into his unmarked van.

That's why so many rapists get a slap on the wrist for a sentence, if they even get any punishment at all in a court of law. People erroneously expect rapists to come off like a scary monster who would jump out at people in the dark. Anything short of that, people are like "this guy can't possibly be a rapist!"

So I think the show is playing this exactly right.

[Slovenly Muse]

5 hours ago, Ruby Gillis said:

it doesn't feel like the sexual assault is written into the show at all.  I would have expected it to come in when Kimmy and Dong went to the hotel last season, but that episode made me assume that the weird sex stuff had either been dropped or been between the women.

I thought it was pretty clear what they meant: Every time Dong tried to kiss her or become intimate, no matter how into it she was, she would hit him with something large and heavy out of reflex, and wasn't able to finally become intimate with him until he was handcuffed and her "panic" instincts weren't triggered. That doesn't seem like the results of trauma relating to "weird sex stuff" between the women, so much as something VERY undesirable and non-consensual taking place. They also touched on it briefly in the first-season episode when Kimmy tried to have sex with Buckley's tutor: She basically attacked him (held him down very aggressively) because she didn't understand how sex worked. That moment illuminated what her frame of reference must have been. This show is really good at playing those moments for laughs without denying the gravity of them, but if you're not paying attention, or not willing to "go there," it is easy to dismiss those clues as just jokes. And maybe that's ok, to accomodate the range of audiences this show might attract, but it has certainly always been there. 

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

That moment illuminated what her frame of reference must have been. This show is really good at playing those moments for laughs without denying the gravity of them, but if you're not paying attention, or not willing to "go there," it is easy to dismiss those clues as just jokes. And maybe that's ok, to accomodate the range of audiences this show might attract, but it has certainly always been there. 

Also keep in mind that the first season was written for NBC, so they probably would have had to be more subtle with any references to Kimmy's trauma. I mean it was already a weird enough show to begin with. That said when Ellie Kemper does rage filled serious Kimmy she is awesome.

I also loved the visual of Titus drinking straight from the jar of pasta sauce like it was some kind of fancy drink.

[helenamonster]

Laura Dern! Ya know, only this show could get me to consider the complexity and humanity of women who marry inmates (and not just any inmates, the Ted Bundy and Charles Manson and Reverend Richard types), who I had always dismissed as beyond help nutjobs. I fully believe there are women who have been so royally fucked over by men in their lives that marrying a literal rapist feels safer because there's only so many ways he can ruin your life from behind bars.

I also loved the continuing theme of Kimmy's desperate desire to help people at the cost of her own happiness. It was great to learn that she protected Donna Maria from marrying the Reverend by doing it herself (although poor Donna Maria, she had a great plan if only someone had been able to understand her), and is possibly sacrificing a college education by not signing the divorce papers and getting her (rightfully deserved, imo) share of the Reverend's assets. She has been through so much and could demand to be catered to for the rest of her life (sort of like Cyndee) but she never stops being that kind, selfless person that she's always been. She will be damned if she lets the bunker define her life and that's what makes her unbreakable. I will never get tired of this character. There's no one else like her on tv right now.

But yeah, they went there with the rape. I thought I would really hate it if they ever did that, but Ellie sells that simmering rage beneath a sunny exterior so well that I immediately bought into it.

I've always loved Titus, but this episode really reinforced that. Nothing specific exactly, but he's always reminded me of one of my really good friends (another gay black bald man stuck in the '90s) and something about the way he got sucked into wanting to help Wendy just really felt like my friend.

I will forever be side-eyeing Jacqueline's storyline, but I will never stop loving Fern and Virgil.

Whoa, the kid who played Buckley got big. His voice is all deep and everything.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Laura Dern always does a great job portraying an off kilter woman verging on hysteria so she was a perfect choice for this role.

Although sometimes Kimmy's generosity of spirit results in Titus, Jacqueline, and Lillian taking advantage of her, in this case I felt like her eagerness to help was really justified. I also think that Kimmy's way of dealing with the bunker since she got out has been to largely ignore what happened to her and to squash her feelings about it, so one of the very positive things about her trying to help Wendy was that her desire to protect Wendy from the reverend was strong enough to get her to admit out loud that she was raped. That's a good step forward for Kimmy.

One thing I loved in this episode that was so Kimmy was that instead of just making up extracurricular activities (as many students do), she made herself actually do these things before she let herself check any of the boxes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/25/2017 at 4:54 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Also keep in mind that the first season was written for NBC, so they probably would have had to be more subtle with any references to Kimmy's trauma. I mean it was already a weird enough show to begin with. That said when Ellie Kemper does rage filled serious Kimmy she is awesome.

I also loved the visual of Titus drinking straight from the jar of pasta sauce like it was some kind of fancy drink.

Well NBC is the home of 18 seasons of SVU ; )

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Well NBC is the home of 18 seasons of SVU ; )

True but it says right in the intro speech that it is a serious show about sex crimes (and sometimes monkeys in basketballs). NBC would have totally promoted this show as another wacky creation from the mind of Tina Fey (without making any reference to the sex crimes).

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/20/2017 at 2:22 PM, Bec said:

Seems to me Kimmy has to cut ties with the Reverend at some point. She can't stay married to him forever. What if she ever wants to get married?

I don't care what he claimed on his taxes; they're not married.

 

On 5/21/2017 at 10:52 AM, Mindthinkr said:

Selfies in front of the UN building!

"Model" UN.

[thuganomics85]

Great seeing Laura Dern as Wendy.  As funny as this show is, I do think they've done a good job at showing how damage she is and why The Reverend is able to get someone like her to be obsessed over him.  Honestly, if this was real life, The Reverend really would have had a lot of pen pals, because he is cunning and looks like Jon Hamm, and he would know how to manipulate them and make himself come off charming, even if he's clearly an insane, creepy rapist.  Glad Kimmy wants to help her, but I'm worried that something bad is going to happen, the more Kimmy holds off on signing the divorce papers.

The stuff with Jacqueline felt like a way to get David Cross off the show for a bit, but I'm looking forward to seeing her interact with the rest of the Snyders.  Especially Duke, because no one can play smarmy, fratty douchebag like Josh Charles can.  Enjoyed seeing her parents' reactions at the end of the episode.

Titus' reactions where spot-on in this episode.