Stannis Baratheon: He Never Asked For This

[Fen]

Rightful King of Westeros, Azor Ahai reborn - he's a man with a lot of commitments.

 

I like Stannis.  He has a lowborn ex-smuggler and foreign woman as his key advisers.  He despises empty customs and courtesies.  He genuinely loves his daughter.

 

The idea of not wanting the throne is a bit more complex.  I don't think he'd ever have Renly'd - gone for it without a proper claim just because he felt he deserved it.  He is next in line, therefore it is his duty.  However, I think that it has become all tied up in his resentments about being overlooked: Robert overlooking his achievements in holding the siege at Storm's End in favour of Ned's victories, Robert giving Storm's End to Renly, Robert making Ned Hand.

 

 

 

[TooMuchCoffee]

I'm leaning towards really not liking Stannis.  Adherence to a religion that burns people alive way overshadows a few good qualities. Imagine him as King, burning everyone who doesn't adopt the Lord of Light. Such an action would make the Mad King look like a saint.  And I don't even know how sincere Stannis is in his belief. He's happy to exploit the magic of it all but if the red woman and his wife weren't around, I doubt that he would continue to follow the religion. (I have show knowledge only... don't want to know any more than that.)

[Fen]

 

And I don't even know how sincere Stannis is in his belief

 

I think you get a sense of sincerity when he talks to Davos in the dungeons. I don't think it comes across as 'faith' as we would understand it.  For Stannis, he saw a vision in the flames, and Melisandre birthed a magical shadow - ergo R'hllor exists.  It's almost the opposite of faith - he required proof for belief.  It's notable that he also calls R'hllor 'her God' - but when he and Davos speak they talk of 'magic'.

[CletusMusashi]

Much earlier, like in late Season 1, he had my vote for Iron King. Joffrey was Joffrey, Tommen would have to face the same incest-bastard accusations as Joffrey, Robb didn't even want the southern throne, Balon was a turd sandwich, Renly was dead, and while I liked Daaerys I thought she was too much of a loose cannon to actually rule a continent. I'm all for dragons and boobies and random acts of kindness, but for functional administrative skills Stannis seemed like he'd be the person to go to... if only somebody would kill off that red-headed whack job.

The problem is, they've done such a good job of explaining why he endorses her, as well as showing how powerful and real her magic is. I don't see her going any place for a while. And viewing them as a package deal...he's tainted. Even Joffrey, as horrible as he was, never got around to burning the trees of the northern gods, much less all the followers. Stannis' regime wold target not only both major religions, but also atheists, agnostics, "minor" religions, foreigners who still follow the majority religion of their homeland... the only people left in the kingdom would be those who have no problem with burning everybody else alive. Screw that.

I did toy with the fact that having the Red Woman around might be handy for White Walkers, and then worry about getting rid of her afterwards. But screw that. Wildfre works on them too, I bet. And so, I believe, would dragons. For a while I was worried that if dragons are reptiles they wouldn't be effective at the temperatures where Walkers become a threat. But it sounds like the only place the Dragons had trouble was Dorne, in the south, so maybe dragons are endothermic. My vote, unless Tommen impresses me, is now for Dany. Stannis may go through the motions of being Mr. Logic and Duty, as emotionally distant people often do because they're uncomfortable simply admitting "I want that!" but ultimately he is more dangerous to his own people than any other king in Westeros that we'e seen.

The guy's wound up tight enough as it is. Last fucking thing he needs is a crown on his head. A toupee, now that might cheer him up a little.

[Lady S.]

I guess the question is, would Stannis keep Melly around if he got the damn pointy chair? Or are her god and the powers that come with it just a means to an end? Has Stannis even thought that far ahead?

 

The idea of not wanting the throne is a bit more complex.  I don't think he'd ever have Renly'd - gone for it without a proper claim just because he felt he deserved it.  He is next in line, therefore it is his duty.  However, I think that it has become all tied up in his resentments about being overlooked: Robert overlooking his achievements in holding the siege at Storm's End in favour of Ned's victories, Robert giving Storm's End to Renly, Robert making Ned Hand.

Yeah, I call bullshit on his not even wanting the throne. The man had to be carried away screaming from his defeat on the Blackwater, and then spent a whole season sulking about that defeat. That doesn't strike me as someone who is only trying to do his duty. Stannis wants the throne like he wanted Storm's End, to finally get his due and make up for that and all of Robert's other snubs.

 

The Dragonstone scenes are getting tedious, but I admit to being entertained by the marriage from hell. Selyse has fond memories of the year they were starving, Stannis hates everything, and Melly is just sitting there watching and might as well be eating popcorn. It amuses to think they've been having these cozy meals ever since Mel showed up on the island.

[CletusMusashi]

I used to think maybe he'd use her and then send her off, but he isn't the one who can make that call. Besides having honest-to-fire-god superpowers, including enough ability to look into the future that she'd be awfully hard to surprise, she is also far more charismatic, manipulative, pragmatic, and quite possibly intelligent than he is. Red ain't going any place she don't want to. It's too bad. I can still look at Stannis and see the remnants of a good man. But I think he was already half crazy from watching his drunken fool of a brother squander the throne for 17 years, and his desire to make things more organized than that had his desire for power so precariously balanced that Mel only had to tickle it a little bit to get him to swing all the way into full-on righteous conqueror mode.

[Constantinople]

We're very lucky in the show in that we have two forces, dragons and White Walkers.

They're like poets, like Shelley and Byron.

They're two distinct types of forces, it's like fire and ice, basically.

I feel my role is to be somewhere in the middle of that

Kind of like lukewarm water.

[Fen]

 

I used to think maybe he'd use her and then send her off, but he isn't the one who can make that call. Besides having honest-to-fire-god superpowers, including enough ability to look into the future that she'd be awfully hard to surprise, she is also far more charismatic, manipulative, pragmatic, and quite possibly intelligent than he is.

 

 

I thought that Stannis seemed more suspicious of Melisandre after their little chat about sacrificing lambs.  You could see the first little light dawning that maybe Melisandre was using him.

 

I think Stannis has made clear throughout that he was acutely aware of his lack of men.  He's a pragmatic commander, and states early on that the side with the most troops wins the war.  Melisandre promises magic to supplement his armies, and he isn't going to refuse that.  He tells Davos that Aegon conquered Westeros because he had dragons.  Dragons are magic.  If Stannis can have magic, then he's in with a fighting chance.

 

I think Melisandre is sticking around because she genuinely believes what her flames have told her about Stannis, and because she isn't about to give up on the chance to convert Westeros.  She's a true believer, and will not be dissuaded.

 

his desire to make things more organized than that had his desire for power so precariously balanced that Mel only had to tickle it a little bit to get him to swing all the way into full-on righteous conqueror mode

.

Stannis has chronic middle child syndrome, and then Melly shows up and tells him he's actually the messiah.  I'd love to know what was actually going on in Stannis' head at that point.

 

The Dragonstone scenes are getting tedious, but I admit to being entertained by the marriage from hell. Selyse has fond memories of the year they were starving, Stannis hates everything, and Melly is just sitting there watching and might as well be eating popcorn.

 

They reminded me of Basil and Sybil Fawlty in that scene - their marriage is just excruciating to watch.  I love Melly sitting there eating her meal and watching them without batting an eyelid.  She must have neves of steel! :)

[Gudzilla]

 

 

We're very lucky in the show in that we have two forces, dragons and White Walkers.

They're like poets, like Shelley and Byron.

They're two distinct types of forces, it's like fire and ice, basically.

I feel my role is to be somewhere in the middle of that

Kind of like lukewarm water.

Stannis also knows there's a fine line between clever and stupid.

[Lady S.]

What I want to know is how Melly got it into her head that Stan was her messiah, that doesn't sound like reading the flames intelligently imo.

[CletusMusashi]

I read it more like she's selling herself as his messiah, because none of the other potential meal tickets looked promising. Of the players available, there were two secessionists with no interest in expansion, one gay guy with no actual claim to the throne, one girl on another continent who can make her own fire just fine, one cranky but fairly dependable guy who's pragmatic enough to change religions if you show him a few miracles... and one crazy little inbred shit who is destined to self-destruct whether you help him or not. Stannis is stuck with her because she's stuck with him. I don't think she's going anywhere until a better partner shows up.

[Luciaphile]

Yeah, I call bullshit on his not even wanting the throne. The man had to be carried away screaming from his defeat on the Blackwater, and then spent a whole season sulking about that defeat. That doesn't strike me as someone who is only trying to do his duty. Stannis wants the throne like he wanted Storm's End, to finally get his due and make up for that and all of Robert's other snubs.

 

See, I read that more as he's a soldier. Moreover he's a general. This is what he's good at. He saw the attack with the wildfire for what it was. He knew they'd shot their wad. He regrouped and he led the attack. He didn't cower like Joffrey. He didn't hang back. He charged. And I thought his being held back was more because he was in the moment. He was in his element and he is not the kind of guy to back down. Ever.

 

I like Stannis. I have since his very first scene with composing the letter, which was just hilarious. He's got a ton of problems and character flaws, but he's one of my favorite characters.

 

He has middle child syndrome. He watched his brother grow fat and lazy and probably had problems with how he was letting the country to go to pot, but I think if he thought Cersei's children were Robert's, he wouldn't have done anything. And if Renly were older, I think he would have supported his brother. But he knows the kids are bastards and he, not Renly is the older brother. Therefore, the way he sees the world, the throne should be his. But time will tell....

[Constantinople]

Tommen, as the Lannister King, is clearly a King for the elite.

Daenerys is positioning herself as the Queen of downtrodden.

Stannis, with his mortgage applications and bank loans, is a King for the middle classes.

[Conan Troutman]

So what's Stannis up to? Will he try to take KL asap? If he's smart, he'll use whatever army he'll buy in Braavos (he's going to buy one, right?) to head right up the Wall, where he can use that army much more efficiently against the Wildlings than he ever could once they get past it (and they will if no one helps the hapless rest of the NW). And maybe gain the loyalty from the remaining Stark loyalists while he's at it, wouldn't be the worst idea. Because if he's stupid enough to ignore the Wilding/White Walker threat after he acknowledged it last season, I really hope Tywin slaughters him for that.

[Fen]

I thought Stannis was hilarious at the bank.  He waited so long before sitting down that I thought my stream had started buffering. 

 

Regardless of what he does now, it was a pretty important. scene.  He had to swallow his pride, and be a supplicant.  He had to admit to how small his forces were.  He had to give Davos that sidelong glance pleading for help when his justification of the throne being his by rights simply didn't mean anything to men who work by numbers, not bloodlines.

[Lady S.]

Stannis's loan application:

[Conan Troutman]

I'm not even a US citizen. But this is just to great!

[joliefaire]

I was riveted when Stannis, Mance and Jon stood in that little grouping after Stannis' troops had quelled the wildlings.  I thought that was a very intense and telling scene.  Mance had thrown down his arms, surrendered for the sake of his people.  He was vastly outnumbered and knew it.  But he had dignity in defeat and he kept his dignity.  "We do not kneel."  Jon, too, stepped up to the plate in that scene, a young man, the only bridge between two proud kings who know nothing of one another, and he handled it well, indeed. 

 

But it was Stannis who impressed me in that scene.  Episode after episode we've seen him brooding, moping, nearly unresponsive after his brutal loss at Blackwater.  Mellisandre (my least favorite character in the series, but that's just me)  constantly at his side whispering her mysterious religious hoo-ha.  But in this episode, we saw Stannis as the seasoned commander of men that we saw at Blackwater, and haven't seen since.  He was calm, reasoned, in no way experiencing a rush or a high after quelling the wildlings.  I was most impressed, however, that once he learned who Jon Snow's father was and heard of Jon's previous experience with, and knowledge of, Mance Rayder and the situation with the wildlings, he asked Jon's advice and then took that advice, without hesitation. To me, that's a mature leader.  Stannis knows nothing at all about Rayder, the wildings or the nuances of the current situation--so he looked to the man who does know, asked his advice, and took it.

 

Your thoughts about that scene?  About Stannis as potential 'king material?'

 

PS:  I gotta love this show.  Right in the midst of all this gravitas of king vs. king, a suicidal wildling on foot charges Stannis, a Stannis soldier zooms by on a white horse and whacks him down--and then everybody just continues without a flinch.  Alex Graves is my least favorite director in this series, but that was ... lovely.  I laughed out loud.

Edited June 17, 2014 by joliefaire

[Conan Troutman]

The problem with Stannis as "king material" is Melisandre. As long as she's influencing him and having him burn everyone who won't switch to their god, a King Stannis would probably end in a horrible mass burning. So Melisandre has to go (or at least Stannis has to lose the unquestioned trust he has in her, she's still occasionally useful, like with the smoke baby and the advise to go to the Wall). It sounds weird, but I'm kinda hoping she'll try to do something terrible to/with Shireen, which seems is like the only thing that could possibly open his eyes. 

 

Stannis without her (influence) would indeed make for good king. He's severely lacking in the charisma department and I also think he lacks a sense of pragmatism (the Tyrells, at least the female ones, have both, which is why I'd prefer them if I had a choice). But with him in charge everybody would know what to expect, what the rules are, what happens if you break them and as long as you don't, you're fine. Plus, as you said, he's willing to listen to advice. So he should make for a fine king, possibly the best Westeros has ever had. 

[Lady S.]

Isn't Jon Snow the first person besides Davos and maybe Melly to actually address Stan as Your Grace? It's the start of a beautiful friendship between wolf and lobster, two mopey outcasts.

 

Stannis's swag rating is no longer 14/100, imo.

Look at that synchronized Stavos stride.

[Maximum Taco]

Isn't Jon Snow the first person besides Davos and maybe Melly to actually address Stan as Your Grace? It's the start of a beautiful friendship between wolf and lobster, two mopey outcasts.

 

Stannis's swag rating is no longer 14/100, imo.

Look at that synchronized Stavos stride.

 

What's great is that not only does Stannis not break stride, he doesn't even draw his sword while the kamikaze wildling launches at him. Davos atleast has his blade out but Stannis just doesn't care, so absolute is his control over his army, that he knows someone is gonna cut that sum'bitch down before he gets close to the one true King of Westeros. What a beast.

 

Stannis also probably has the best leitmotif in the show. You hear that and you think, oh something is going down with Stannis.

[Fen]

 

I was most impressed, however, that once he learned who Jon Snow's father was and heard of Jon's previous experience with, and knowledge of, Mance Rayder and the situation with the wildlings, he asked Jon's advice and then took that advice, without hesitation. To me, that's a mature leader.  Stannis knows nothing at all about Rayder, the wildings or the nuances of the current situation--so he looked to the man who does know, asked his advice, and took it.

 

I so agree.  It reminds the audience of Tywin's advice to Tommen  - about how a wise king heeds the advice of his counselors.  Dany's predicament in the same episode also alludes to it: she was warned about her dragons, and about the risks of dismantling slavery, but went ahead.  I've always felt that Stannis' willingness to listen to opinions, and those of a foreign woman and a lowborn smuggler, too, was an indicator of strength rather than weakness.

[DigitalCount]

So Melisandre has to go (or at least Stannis has to lose the unquestioned trust he has in her, she's still occasionally useful, like with the smoke baby and the advise to go to the Wall).

I don't know, she was all "5 Kings 5 Kings 5 Kings...oh wait the war of the 5 kings can go screw itself." It seemed like she just got a sense of which way the wind was blowing. I don't deny she has mojo in spades, even after the Oz reveal, but she doesn't seem as useful as she wants Stannis to think she is.

[Conan Troutman]

It seemed like she just got a sense of which way the wind was blowing.

 

Which would still put her ahead on every other decision maker or advisor in Westeros. I didn't say she's a good influence after all, but for all the dubios things she does, she did at least manage to kill Renly and getting Stannis a huge army, assuming the Wildlings join him. So that's something Stannis has to value very highly. Not to mention that she saved at least a lot of lives in the North (without Stannis, the Wildlings would be doing who knows what once they're past the Wall, but we've seen what the small group of Wildlings did to that village and Molestown) and possibly the whole of Westeros.

[Trisan]

Well, she has no part in gaining Stannis army. This is Davos doing mostly.

 

Except if you consider her warnings to Stannis in the finale of season 3 the reason he has his army. 

 

I am really looking forward to the interactions Jon will have with Stannis and Mel next season. I know many people are dreaming of a Jon / Davos scene, but honestly, of the Dragonstone trio, he's the one I'm least interested in a scene with Jon. And I'd love a Jon - Davos scene... It's just that Jon / Stan and Jon / Mel has the potential, for me, to be the highlight of season 5 !

[Conan Troutman]

Well, she has no part in gaining Stannis army. This is Davos doing mostly.

 

I was referring to the Wildlings. I expect Stannis will offer Mance and the Wildlings to join him and I can't see why they wouldn't, the alternative being killed. Stannis doesn't really need them to take KL, but he surely could use them to beat the remaining Lannister allies plus the Greyjoys and secure the rest of the Seven Kingdoms.

I always thought if Stannis were to arrive at the Wall, his army and the NW would fight and kill the Wildlings, but this outcome is so much better for everyone involved and wouldn't have been possible without Melisandre convincing him to go north.

[Maximum Taco]

I was referring to the Wildlings. I expect Stannis will offer Mance and the Wildlings to join him and I can't see why they wouldn't, the alternative being killed. Stannis doesn't really need them to take KL, but he surely could use them to beat the remaining Lannister allies plus the Greyjoys and secure the rest of the Seven Kingdoms.

I always thought if Stannis were to arrive at the Wall, his army and the NW would fight and kill the Wildlings, but this outcome is so much better for everyone involved and wouldn't have been possible without Melisandre convincing him to go north.

 

The only sticking point is that "they do not kneel"

 

Stannis will require them to kneel to their King if they are to be citizens of Westeros.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Rocket]

I wonder do I recall it right that Mance stated they don't kneel north of the wall? That might be a way out at least for many wildlings any that will kneel south of the wall can come. 

[Maximum Taco]

I wonder do I recall it right that Mance stated they don't kneel north of the wall? That might be a way out at least for many wildlings any that will kneel south of the wall can come. 

 

That seems kind of ridiculous.

 

We don't kneel. Now take us 50 feet that way, and we'll be total supplicants.

 

They call themselves the Free Folk for a reason. They don't kneel to any king. Not even their own.

 

Now I'm not suggesting they'll all be strong willed, I'm sure some will decide they'd rather submit to Stannis and his laws then face the White Walkers. Just that their code doesn't seem based on location.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Meredith Quill]

That's why they call the Night's Watch and the people of Westeros in general 'kneelers' as a form of disdain: the freefolk don't 'bend the knee' for anyone.

[Conan Troutman]

Only they're not exactly "Free" Folk any longer. They're totally dependend on the good will of Stannis. He can either kill them right now or leave them to the White Walkers (or both). We'll see how long "we do not kneel" will last. Especially if kneeling also essentially means Westerosi citizenship. Now I'm not saying that situation will be solved in five minutes in the pilot, but at some point, at the latest when they see the White Walkers approaching, self preservation should win over pride. At least for most of the tribes, maybe the Thenns will choose some other fate, but no one really wants them in Westeros, anyway. 

[Philbert]

 

And I don't even know how sincere Stannis is in his belief. He's happy to exploit the magic of it all but if the red woman and his wife weren't around, I doubt that he would continue to follow the religion. (I have show knowledge only... don't want to know any more than that.)

 

I've read all 5 books and I don't think they are any clearer on this point than the show is. Stannis doesn't have any POV chapters so you never know what's really going on in his head. Likewise, show Stannis is a very hard read. I do agree with your point though. Stannis is a believer because whatever Mellisandre is doing appears to be working. It stops working, he'll drop the Lord of Light faster you can say "the Thrones is mine by right."

 

 

That seems kind of ridiculous.

We don't kneel. Now take us 50 feet that way, and we'll be total supplicants.

They call themselves the Free Folk for a reason. They don't kneel to any king. Not even their own.

Now I'm not suggesting they'll all be strong willed, I'm sure some will decide they'd rather submit to Stannis and his laws then face the White Walkers. Just that their code doesn't seem based on location.

 

I'd say they have very little choice at this point. Stannis isn't planning on conquering the Land North of the Wall. He's not telling them what to do in their own 'country.' It seems to me that if they want to get South of the Wall, they're going to have to ask his permission, since he is now the de facto ruler of the Wall and the lands traditionally belonging to the Night's Watch. They don't have to bend the knee if they don't want to. They can stay North of the Wall and die when the White Walkers come for them. And that's the only choice that they have. Sucks to be them but it's not Stannis' fault.

[Constantinople]

It's a little ironic that Stannis insists that a bunch of foreigners, the Wildlings, adhere to the Seven Kingdoms cultural norm of kneeling, while also insisting that his followers abandon the traditional Gods of the Seven Kingdoms and adhere to a foreign religion.

 

That said, the the issue isn't so kneeling as consistency.  Stannis could decide that neither the Wildlings nor his men must kneel to him.  I doubt he will, but he could.  What would cause disaffection would be if exempted the Wildings from kneeling while still requiring his men to kneel.

[Philbert]

 

 

It's a little ironic that Stannis insists that a bunch of foreigners, the Wildlings, adhere to the Seven Kingdoms cultural norm of kneeling, while also insisting that his followers abandon the traditional Gods of the Seven Kingdoms and adhere to a foreign religion.

 

I didn't really see that as him insisting so much as him pointing out battlefield etiquette to Mance. We all know what a stickler for the rules Stannis is. He dropped it quickly enough. I know some people have claimed they thought he was pouting but I didn't see that in his expression. Stannis respects courage and honor. Mance did the right thing by his people and Stannis knows it. I don't think he's really looking to humiliate him or the wildlings at this point, since his obvious move is to absorb them into his army.

[Maximum Taco]

I didn't really see that as him insisting so much as him pointing out battlefield etiquette to Mance. We all know what a stickler for the rules Stannis is. He dropped it quickly enough. I know some people have claimed they thought he was pouting but I didn't see that in his expression. Stannis respects courage and honor. Mance did the right thing by his people and Stannis knows it. I don't think he's really looking to humiliate him or the wildlings at this point, since his obvious move is to absorb them into his army.

 

I don't think Stannis is looking to humilate or dishonor anybody. But at the same time he can't tolerate slights to his power.

 

He said Mance had to kneel or him and his army would be put in chains, and likely not fed. When Mance refused to kneel Stannis really had no choice he couldn't be like "Oh ok, no biggie."

 

He definitely wants the Wildlings to join him, but he also can't have them being willful and disobediant. He needs them as supplicants, not as equal allies. A faulty weapon in your own hand can be as deadly as a weapon in an opponents.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Philbert]

I don't think Stannis is looking to humilate or dishonor anybody. But at the same time he can't tolerate slights to his power.

 

He said Mance had to kneel or him and his army would be put in chains, and likely not fed. When Mance refused to kneel Stannis really had no choice he couldn't be like "Oh ok, no biggie."

 

He definitely wants the Wildlings to join him, but he also can't have them being willful and disobediant. He needs them as supplicants, not as equal allies. A faulty weapon in your own hand can be as deadly as a weapon in an opponents.

 

True enough. Stannis is going to have to deal with Mance, one way or another. Since I've read the books, I'll leave it there.

[Fen]

Why is everyone knocking back Stannis' fantastic ideas?  No wonder the man grinds his teeth so much.

[Lady S.]

I liked when he mentioned Robert complaining about the Northerners, both because I like the idea of the Greatjon Umber arguing with Robert, and because I think that may be the first time he talked about either brother without bitterness from his severe Middle Child Syndrome shining through.

 

That said, the the issue isn't so kneeling as consistency.  Stannis could decide that neither the Wildlings nor his men must kneel to him.  I doubt he will, but he could.  What would cause disaffection would be if exempted the Wildings from kneeling while still requiring his men to kneel.

Exactly. What would his men and his audience of black brothers think if he accepted Mance and co. through the Wall free and clear? Even that foolish usurper Renly wanted fealty from his allies, offering Robb the option to keep calling himself KitN only if he swore the same oath Ned swore to Robert. But Renly couldn't afford to be so lenient with an ally his people had good reason to hate, since his claim was based entirely on keeping his knights of summer happy to fight for him. Mance needed to make some public display of loyalty before raiders and cannibals could be let through the Wall. I understand having a problem with Stan's standard method of execution but Mance left him little choice with the death sentence itself. Throwing his life away is Mance's fault imo. The fact that Stannis would have preferred to spare an oathbreaker who planned to invade the 7K by force (Mance can say his goal wasn't to conquer but his men wouldn't have just settled peacefully in the North if they'd broken through the gate) actually shows him as pretty flexible.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Lady S.

[Philbert]

Best line of the episode: "I don't punish men for bravery. I reward them for it."-Stannis.

 

 

And then proceeds to offer Jon everything he every wished for. This is why there are such things as Stannis fans :)

[Fen]

Smugglers, women from far-off lands, bastards.  Stannis Baratheon is an equal opportunities employer.

 

I do seriously love how Stannis accepts people based on merit.  Whether you like Melisandre or not - how many high-born Westerosi men would have a woman advising them?  He's got a history with Ned, too - but it doesn't affect how he treats Jon. 

 

He also listens to people.  He'll ask people what they would do and genuinely considers it.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Fen

[Independent George]

I love watching Stannis hug Shireen. You can actually see the thought process slowly wind its way through his mind...

 

1. Why is she squeezing me with her arms like that?

2. Wait, I know this one. We covered this.

3. I'm supposed to do something now.

4. Something with my arms.

5. Squeeze... back? Let's try that.

6. Wait, now she's squeezing me even tighter!

7. What is this sudden feeling of warmth I'm getting?

8. Huh. This is actually kind of pleasant.

9. Ok, what do I do now?

10. Stay strong, man. Those skinny little girl arms can't hold out forever.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Independent George

[Winnief]

I do seriously love how Stannis accepts people based on merit.

 

 

Its definitely one of his better traits.

 

While the show's writers haven't always done right by Stannis, I have to say one thing they have done well is make it even more clear how much he truly loves Shireen even if he doesn't know how to say it.  That scene tonight could make you tear up....especially since it probably means that one or more of them will soon die. Sob.

 

And I can't say how much I LOVE Stephen Dillane in this part.  He always nails Stannis even if the writers don't. 

[Independent George]

I mentioned this on the show thread, but I really want the HBO store to start selling a plush stuffed Stannis doll that I can hug and squeeze and carry around with me. Maybe they can even make it talk, so that when you hug it, it blurts out an awkward, "Well, uh, ok, umm.... As you were."

[Tippi]

And I can't say how much I LOVE Stephen Dillane in this part.  He always nails Stannis even if the writers don't.

I love Stephen Dillane too.  He has been one of the bright spots for me this season--I really enjoy his scenes with Jon.  Stephen is showing some shades of grey in what could be a very black and white character.

[benteen]

Dillane's great.  He as wonderful as Thomas Jefferson in the John Adams mini-series and he's a great Stannis, even though the writing has often undercut the character prior to this season.

[Winnief]

Stannis/Jon has definitely been a great new dynamic, and I'm thinking we're also gonna get Stannis/Theon, and maybe even Stannis/Sansa before the season is out.  I'd be especially curious to see that last one since those two never came within a mile of each other in the books, but they're both such great actors.

[Lady S.]

My favorite part of that monologue was Stannis saying the dollseller must have thought new fathers were soft touches, because he actually was soft enough to buy his baby a doll. That's probably about as close to expressing sentiment to his child as Stannis can get. (A normal person would have known to just start with the word no when answering the question "Are you ashamed of me?".)

Guess his fires still aren't burning hot enough for Melly, though.

[DigitalCount]

[Conan Troutman]

The witch is dark and full of shit.

 

 

#theaudienceremembers

[Philbert]

Ahh, well, looks like the entire Stannis loving community is in a state of shock this afternoon. Admittedly I was pissed off a bit last night. I didn't really think they'd push it that far but apparently we were all thinking Stannis was really the hero of the piece and he's not...although there might be room for some sort of redemption. What he did...horrible, evil even (depending how loosely you want to use that word) but he I would argue he did it for the right reasons-he's trying to save his army to defeat the Boltons and take control of the country-in order to save it. Stannis has always been a complicated character-he's possibly the closest thing Martin has gotten to Shakespeare and he just got a lot more complicated after last night's horror show. So the question is still this:

 

Does one bad act wash away the good, or one good act wash away the bad. We know Stannis own thoughts on the subject.