Season 13 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

[Nothingsurprisesme]

Thanks for the reply.  I didn't think about the Q score when writing my questions.  That makes sense.

I am glad that the remaining originals will be back.  The chemistry has always been the strongest amongst them as far as what comes across on screen, though I do like Luke and warming up to Tara.

 

[Danielg342]

I would imagine that, since the cast has been together for so long, they've likely formed some friendships so they're willing to share salary information with each other. Likely too Joe Mantegna and Matthew Gray Gubler encouraged the actresses to get parity.

[Lebanna]

Yes, good point. I really can't imagine that they think how the women actors have been treated is ok.

I'm really glad for them. They're really not fighting just for themselves and their families to be paid what they rightfully should be, they're doing all women a service. We all have to stand together in this fight, and I hope most guys will stand with us too. We all benefit from a fairer world.

[Willowy]

I'm really surprised and appreciative at the graciousness of some of these TV stars when it comes to negotiations of this nature, and I agree that Joe and Matthew were probably supportive of the increase for the women. 

On TBBT, Jim Parsons and Johnny Galecki both took pay cuts so their co-stars could all get raises. When 'Friends' was negotiating, I believe it was Lisa Kudrow and Matt LeBlanc that were getting shafted, and the other Friends said "nope", so they all stuck together and everyone got the same paycheck. Will & Grace has done similar.

[secnarf]

9 minutes ago, Willowy said:

I'm really surprised and appreciative at the graciousness of some of these TV stars when it comes to negotiations of this nature, and I agree that Joe and Matthew were probably supportive of the increase for the women. 

On TBBT, Jim Parsons and Johnny Galecki both took pay cuts so their co-stars could all get raises. When 'Friends' was negotiating, I believe it was Lisa Kudrow and Matt LeBlanc that were getting shafted, and the other Friends said "nope", so they all stuck together and everyone got the same paycheck. Will & Grace has done similar.

I'm glad they did this, but they are making millions of dollars and can easily afford to lose a bit on principle :P Similarly, it's not really about the money for the actors getting paid less, since "less" is still more than many people will make in ten years. It's the principle of it.

[Willowy]

Right. And I do think it behooves the studio to offer salary parity, as too much of a discrepancy for the supporting players might foster discord. 

[Nothingsurprisesme]

I will say this:  hopefully none of this results in anymore super JJ or wannabe genius Garcia as were a couple of seasons ago.  I feel that we just got those characters back to their original personas.  I can't take anymore writers' room worshiping of these characters.  I actually liked both characters again this season.

[Mom x 3]

While I wasn't a huge fan of Walker's character, I thought he was written badly rather than acted badly.  I'm not surprised he got let go. 

But that was one hell of a letter he wrote.  Absolutely beautiful.

[Old Dog]

I see Daniel Henney is moving across from Beyond Boredom. Interesting.

[ReidFan]

5 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

I see Daniel Henney is moving across from Beyond Boredom. Interesting.

well I'd say 'I called that' but I think we all  did.

*eye roll*

yippee... another cast member.

/sarcasm

[Princess Lucky]

Daniel Henney and Adam Rodriguez on the same show? Yes please.

(I never watched Beyond Borders, but I do love him from several of his other projects.)

[Old Dog]

Not a big fan of Henney and I simply loathe Rodriguez. But looks like they are moving the show in a new direction. Not enticing for me, I'm only still in for MGG,

[Hotchgirl18]

I don't....I don't even know what to say. What are they DOING?!

[ForeverAlone]

If they have to bring in another character, I'm good with it being Daniel Henney's character. I liked his character much more than Damon Gupton's Stephen Walker. Daniel and Adam's characters will make an interesting combo for the show. 

[Hotchgirl18]

15 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

Not a big fan of Henney and I simply loathe Rodriguez. But looks like they are moving the show in a new direction. Not enticing for me, I'm only still in for MGG,

Yup. The team led by "The Powerpuff Girls" with two muscle men as back up  ?

[Danielg342]

I like Matt Simmons, but not enough to make up for the loss of Walker. I would have preferred if the team would have stayed at seven, and I fear they're just going to turn Simmons into another "know-it-all" cop.

[Hotchgirl18]

14 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I like Matt Simmons, but not enough to make up for the loss of Walker. I would have preferred if the team would have stayed at seven, and I fear they're just going to turn Simmons into another "know-it-all" cop.

Too many cooks in the kitchen. 

[Lebanna]

Well, that explains the loss of Walker. The two characters are similar, cool and thoughtful family men with an action packed background. They can kill Walker off screen for the dramatic 'someone will not survive!' new season trailer and keep the same basic character type. Henney's character's job switch is easily explained through the backstory of him having a hundred-and-one kids under four, or whatever it was. And they gain on ethnic diversity (not a criticism).

But basically, it comes down to, they loved this character more than that one, which is a pity as I was really warming up to Walker. 

Edited June 20, 2017 by Lebanna

[normasm]

Terrible decision, from where I sit. Although it makes Spencer an even more "singular" beta male in a group of alphas of both genders, it still is one more person who will take action and dialogue away from the best character on the show. Not very smart. But at least it was Henney instead of the Monty character (barf).

[Hotchgirl18]

12 minutes ago, Lebanna said:

Well, that explains the loss of Walker. The two characters are similar, cool and thoughtful family men with an action packed background. They can kill Walker off screen for the dramatic 'someone will not survive!' new season trailer and keep the same basic character type. Henney's character's job switch is easily explained through the backstory of him having a hundred-and-one kids under four, or whatever it was. And they gain on ethnic diversity (not a criticism).

But basically, it comes down to, they loved this character more than that one, which is a pity as I was really warming up to Walker. 

So, where's the strong, authoritative stoic man character type, then? 

Oh, right.....

[ForeverAlone]

From the way some of the actors are negotiating their contracts, it seems like more than one of them (at least two in Aisha and Matthew)  have specifically negotiated not to appear in every episode. That brings to mind what SVU did with its actors the last several years, presumably to save money. So having another character keeps the team number at around the same level at all times. 

Edited June 20, 2017 by ForeverAlone

[Lebanna]

1 hour ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

So, where's the strong, authoritative stoic man character type, then? 

Oh, right.....

Well, for me it doesn't matter whether each character is a direct replacement for another, it's just obvious that in this case that's what's happening. Or whether, if there is a similar character type introduced, it comes in male, female or indeterminate. I just do not care, as I don't feel that gender and personality often have that much to do with each other.

Actually, I would think directly replacing the character you are referring to in a blatant manner would go down like a tonne of bricks with said character's fans - and frankly it would be disrespectful to them to expect them to replace their love of one character with someone else doing the same thing. So I don't expect to see that happen anytime soon and hope it doesn't. It's also unnecessary, as the show still functions fine.

[Willowy]

ForeverAlone that's exactly what I was thinking. I've also heard that having a larger cast makes it far easier from a scheduling standpoint.

[Hotchgirl18]

37 minutes ago, Lebanna said:

Well, for me it doesn't matter whether each character is a direct replacement for another, it's just obvious that in this case that's what's happening. Or whether, if there is a similar character type introduced, it comes in male, female or indeterminate. I just do not care, as I don't feel that gender and personality often have that much to do with each other.

Actually, I would think directly replacing the character you are referring to in a blatant manner would go down like a tonne of bricks with said character's fans - and frankly it would be disrespectful to them to expect them to replace their love of one character with someone else doing the same thing. So I don't expect to see that happen anytime soon and hope it doesn't. It's also unnecessary, as the show still functions fine.

Nothing they do goes well with said character's fans. I'm one of the fans. 

[PMPA]

Lebanna, that is exactly what was done though. It was made clear that Damon was replacing Thomas, even over the last week or so since news of his exit came out, which was utterly ridiculous.  Absolutely no disrespect to Damon, but there is no one who could or should replace TG or more specifically the iconic character he portrayed.  Just as there is no one who could or should replace Reid/Matt, or any of the originals. The constant talk that Rodriguez is a replacement for SM, eh, no way. It would have been off and disrespectful had TG's exit been other than it was, but this, It was yet another rubbing of the salt into the wounds for TG/Hotch fans in what was a super crappy year. We were also fed the line that Paget was not replacing TG, when quite clearly she was in every aspect.  She said as much only these last few days while in France.  People critisised Hotch fans for complaining about her using the 'wheels up' line. Hotch and TG were and are very important to his fans, just as Reid, Rossi or whoever are very important to their fans.  It felt like yet another slap in the face to not only us fans but indeed to TG himself. 

 I feel bad for Damon Gupton, especially now after todays news. Thats utter crap. Totally unnessesary but utterly predictable. He has been treated really shabilly. For Erica Messer to publicly say, it was not her choice to have this character and insinuate that he was sort of thrown on them, was in poor taste.  I personally predicted this would not end well for him right after he came onto the show. The fact is, CM and its current band of bosses could not care less about fans, either past or current.  For the last few seasons, their focus has been on hitting episode target numbers, and the focus now is hitting 300. They could not care less who is standing on the podium as cast, if they make it that far. 

 

Quote

 

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, PMPA said:

Lebanna, that is exactly what was done though. It was made clear that Damon was replacing Thomas, even over the last week or so since news of his exit came out, which was utterly ridiculous.  Absolutely no disrespect to Damon, but there is no one who could or should replace TG or more specifically the iconic character he portrayed.  Just as there is no one who could or should replace Reid/Matt, or any of the originals. The constant talk that Rodriguez is a replacement for SM, eh, no way. It would have been off and disrespectful had TG's exit been other than it was, but this, It was yet another rubbing of the salt into the wounds for TG/Hotch fans in what was a super crappy year. We were also fed the line that Paget was not replacing TG, when quite clearly she was in every aspect.  She said as much only these last few days while in France.  People critisised Hotch fans for complaining about her using the 'wheels up' line. Hotch and TG were and are very important to his fans, just as Reid, Rossi or whoever are very important to their fans.  It felt like yet another slap in the face to not only us fans but indeed to TG himself. 

 I feel bad for Damon Gupton, especially now after todays news. Thats utter crap. Totally unnessesary but utterly predictable. He has been treated really shabilly. For Erica Messer to publicly say, it was not her choice to have this character and insinuate that he was sort of thrown on them, was in poor taste.  I personally predicted this would not end well for him right after he came onto the show. The fact is, CM and its current band of bosses could not care less about fans, either past or current.  For the last few seasons, their focus has been on hitting episode target numbers, and the focus now is hitting 300. They could not care less who is standing on the podium as cast, if they make it that far. 

 

This. 

[Willowy]

Lebanna, I like your post. I don't believe that wiping out Hotch is what was done. What else was supposed to have happened? They moved on with dignity, filling a void created by a main character going. Nothing about Hotch was hallowed ground or sacred. I chose to see Prentiss's use of 'Wheels Up' as a way to KEEP Hotch in the room with them all, and that's how it was intended, imo. The audience didn't need to be 'talked at' about Hotch every week, as he's always with us. Not every cast change is all about Thomas Gibson.

[CrimeFan12]

As I said last year and probably in the last month, I don't think we need an eight character.  Seven was fine, but it is only one person and looking back over this great season, it worked fine with eight. It wasn't like they were adding a ton of characters, only one.  It is what it is and I will welcome the new character.  Will it be good or will it be bad, I will reserve my judgment until I have seen him in action with the rest of the team.

I think there must have been something off with the Walker character that the studios didn't like, be it the acting or how he was written.  Whatever it was, it was enough for them to drop him.  Again that is not new in the industry.  And there must have been something they liked with the Simmons character and wanted it to continue.  He is an established character in the CM universe.  He's known to the viewers of both shows.  His backstory has been established so we won't (hopefully) get an episode to establish it.  Several of the writers that came over from BB know the character so that's a plus.  I think he's going to be a good fit.  This upcoming season is getting more interesting and in a good way.

To Willowy, you're comment popped up while I was muddling my way through mine own.  I agree with the 'Wheels up in 30'.  I see it as Emily continuing the tradition that Hotch started and it is way of showing respect to him.  

[Lucky Thirteen]

They need to stop bringing back Cat Adams. AP is extremely annoying irl and her character is starting to feel very repetitive. AP's line delivery makes her character sound like an airhead. It also seems like her character has nothing to offer besides mind games. Cat is a lunatic with a terrible backstory. There's nothing remotely interesting about her. 

I'd like to see Reid dealing with the aftermath of his prison storyline. Maybe make him turn a bit evil or become rebellious, promiscuous or something. It's about time we got rid of dorky spencer. He was adorable but given MGG's serious acting range, I want to see him explore other sides of him.

I also wish they would get the Scratch storyline over with. It's so boring! There have been more interesting storylines throughout the series. I can't believe they picked this one to extended to death.

 

Oh and one more thing, BRING HOTCH BACK and tone down Garcia's colourfulness !

Edited June 21, 2017 by In My Zone

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, In My Zone said:

They need to stop bringing back Cat Adams. AP is extremely annoying irl and her character is starting to feel very repetitive. AP's line delivery makes her character sound like an airhead. It also seems like her character has nothing to offer besides mind games. Cat is a lunatic with a terrible backstory. There's nothing remotely interesting about her. 

I'd like to see Reid dealing with the aftermath of his prison storyline. Maybe make him turn a bit evil or become rebellious, promiscuous or something. It's about time we got rid of dorky spencer. He was adorable but given MGG's serious acting range, I want to see him explore other sides of him.

I also wish they would get the Scratch storyline over with. It's so boring! There have been more interesting storylines throughout the series. I can't believe they picked this one to extended to death.

 

Oh and one more thing, BRING HOTCH BACK and tone down Garcia's colourfulness !

It's time we see a darker side of Spencer. He's 30 fucking 6 years old already.  I'm down for an evil Spencer. I'm sure MGG could work wonders with that. Maybe we need a little but if an evil FBI agent. 

Although, technically the evil agent should be Hotch, but we won't get into that. 

And bring back Hotch!! Yes! 100 percent!

[Lucky Thirteen]

3 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

It's time we see a darker side of Spencer. He's 30 fucking 6 years old already.  I'm down for an evil Spencer. I'm sure MGG could work wonders with that. Maybe we need a little but if an evil FBI agent. 

Although, technically the evil agent should be Hotch, but we won't get into that. 

And bring back Hotch!! Yes! 100 percent!

You, my friend, are a queen! I completely agree with you. Evil Hotch and evil Spencer would be ??

Edited June 21, 2017 by In My Zone

[Fashionista7]

13 minutes ago, In My Zone said:

You, my friend, are a queen! I completely agree with you. Evil Hotch and evil Spencer would be ??

Me three agree!

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, In My Zone said:

You, my friend, are a queen! I completely agree with you. Evil Hotch and evil Spencer would be ??

Evil Hotch and evil Spencer.....

 

I don't think my ovaries can take this! Ahh!  Oh my. 

[Fashionista7]

1 hour ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Evil Hotch and evil Spencer.....

 

I don't think my ovaries can take this! Ahh!  Oh my. 

I'm getting naughty thoughts, just thinking about it.

[Hotchgirl18]

Hehehe

26 minutes ago, Fashionista7 said:

I'm getting naughty thoughts, just thinking about it.

Hehehe. Both of them evil at the same time?

[Fashionista7]

20 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Hehehe

Hehehe. Both of them evil at the same time?

Is that a bad thing?

[Hotchgirl18]

29 minutes ago, Fashionista7 said:

Is that a bad thing?

Never. Never a bad thing. Quite the opposite. Lol

[Mislav]

19 hours ago, In My Zone said:

They need to stop bringing back Cat Adams. AP is extremely annoying irl and her character is starting to feel very repetitive. AP's line delivery makes her character sound like an airhead. It also seems like her character has nothing to offer besides mind games. Cat is a lunatic with a terrible backstory. There's nothing remotely interesting about her. 

I'd like to see Reid dealing with the aftermath of his prison storyline. Maybe make him turn a bit evil or become rebellious, promiscuous or something. It's about time we got rid of dorky spencer. He was adorable but given MGG's serious acting range, I want to see him explore other sides of him.

I also wish they would get the Scratch storyline over with. It's so boring! There have been more interesting storylines throughout the series. I can't believe they picked this one to extended to death.

 

Oh and one more thing, BRING HOTCH BACK and tone down Garcia's colourfulness !

Who is AP? Cat is portrayed by Aubrey Plaza. Pretty good actress.

Also, how do you know what she's like in real life?

Edited June 22, 2017 by Mislav

[Lucky Thirteen]

1 hour ago, Mislav said:

Who is AP? Cat is portrayed by Aubrey Plaza. Pretty good actress.

Also, how do you know what she's like in real life?

Ap is Aubrey Plaza. She may be a good actress in other stuff but her line delivery is terrible in CM. She makes Cat sound like some highschool chick threatening to hurt someone. She sounds like an airhead. When I think of psychopaths, I think of someone well-composed and calm like ,say, Hannibal. Not like some crazy stalker chick who threatens like a highschooler. I can't take her seriously as a 'psychopath'.

As for her in real life, I was referring to her insanely awkward interviews. (And yes, some people are awkward. I get it. It doesn't make her interviews any less comfortable to watch.)

Anyway, Cat doesn't have much of a storyline and her episodes are very repetitive. Every episode is an Entropy-sister. She's nothing but mind games. Her character will destroy Reid, and frankly, he deserves A LOT better. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by In My Zone

[Mislav]

1 hour ago, In My Zone said:

Ap is Aubrey Plaza. She may be a good actress in other stuff but her line delivery is terrible in CM. She makes Cat sound like some highschool chick threatening to hurt someone. She sounds like an airhead. When I think of psychopaths, I think of someone well-composed and calm like ,say, Hannibal. Not like some crazy stalker chick who threatens like a highschooler. I can't take her seriously as a 'psychopath'.

As for her in real life, I was referring to her insanely awkward interviews. (And yes, some people are awkward. I get it. It doesn't make her interviews any less comfortable to watch.)

Anyway, Cat doesn't have much of a storyline and her episodes are very repetitive. Every episode is an Entropy-sister. She's nothing but mind games. Her character will destroy Reid, and frankly, he deserves A LOT better. 

Real life psychopaths and serial killers are rarely, if ever, like Hannibal Lecter. Cat is actually more realistic than the majority of fictional "psychopaths". Though realistic doesn't necessarily equal good, after everything Criminal Minds has done over the twelve seasons, I do appreciate realism. She is supposed to have a tongue-in-cheek attitude in regards to her own pathology-Thomas Yates was similar in that regard. Also, isn't Hannibal, who you mentioned, also prone to playing mind games with protagonists?

 

 

And how do you mean "every episode"? She's been in three episodes, and she only appeared for one minute in " Green Light".

 

 

And what do Aubrey Plaza's interviews have with her performance on "Criminal Minds"? Also, I'm pretty sure her "awkwardness" is a part of her humor/personality. She has a very light hearted worldview and jokes around all the time. When it comes to interviews, she mostly stars in comedy or talk shows. I doubt she'd act the same if she was being interviewed about cancer, or human rights issues, for example (but why would anyone interview her about that?).

 

 

What exactly do you mean by "Reid deserves much better"? Cat is not a love interest or someone who is subtly hurting Reid while he is oblivious to that. She is a villain, an antagonist. She is supposed to cause trouble. I am not a fan of Reid angst, or Reid being, well, tortured by writers, but, as long as they created that villain and started that arc, might as well bring it to the end. And, hopefully, it will end with Spencer, being a genius, finally defeating the villain and regaining his confidence, which might be exactly what happened in "Red Light", since it is unclear will the writers return to Cat, and the car crash at the end seems to be a continuation of Mr. Scratch arc (the villain that I really liked at the beginning, but he has become much worse than Cat).

 

 

At the very least, Cat has some legitimite reason to dislike BAU, especially Spencer. He profiled her, leading to the team revealing her identity; he battled wits with her and won, he "figured her out"; he tricked her into surrendering. Peter Lewis... yes, BAU caught him, like they did with Cat, but he must have been expecting that, since he only hacked into their system, looking for that crooked psychiatrist, after he "murdered" all the other victims, knowing her murder, and his computer skills, will lead the investigators to him. And what's with his hate towards Hotchner? In 10x21 "Mr. Scratch", Peter subduded Aaron, drugged him, forced him to hallucinate horrifying things, and was so satisfied with that he didn't even mind being arrested, and said "I won". Why is he so obsessed with Hotchner? Part of that has been added to explain Hotch leaving the show, of course, but still...

 

So, even if Cat is a bad "Criminal Minds" villain, she is hardly the worst.

[ReidFan]

I loved Aubrey Plaza's Cat. Not many 'unsubs' that are so vile and evil and bad......and still manage to make me feel even a little bit bad for them. Cat was one of those.

[Danielg342]

Will Reid raise Cat's baby? Should he?

[ReidGirl]

19 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Will Reid raise Cat's baby? Should he?

No please nothing like that should happen.

[ReidFan]

33 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Will Reid raise Cat's baby? Should he?

Cat's baby won't make it to term.. If she really is pregnant (and it wouldn't surprise me if that was faked, she bought off the prison medical person to forge that on the documents) she'll end up losing it (either intentionally or otherwise.....)

doubt they'll go there.

and if the baby does make it..... Wilkins may have family, they could get custody.

[JMO]

58 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Will Reid raise Cat's baby? Should he?

No.

[Danielg342]

I think I too agree that Reid shouldn't tend to Cat's baby, but my gut says they'll do that.

[Kara101]

That would be awful. I don't understand. Reid has no obligation to the baby and an infant would be able to find a good, loving adoptive family immediately. Infant are extremely in demand and many people are desperate for a baby. Many families would do a much better job raising that baby than a single man with a job that causes him to be constantly away would be able to do. He wouldn't even have a claim to custody?

Edited June 22, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[Willowy]

Absolutely nope.

[ForeverAlone]

I hope to God the show doesn't go there and have Reid raise Cat's baby. Why would he, since it isn't his baby and he has zero obligations to Cat?

[Willowy]

I can see her asking to see him and pulling a huge guilt trip on him. I can see her getting him to the point where he might even start thinking about it. Playing on the innocence of the baby, her sociopathic inability to care for the child herself, the fact that he's the reason she's imprisoned. And she would definitely target his own thwarted ambition to have kids with Maeve. 

She's a sadistic freak show and he would never fall for it of course. But I can totally see them dragging it out a while, making us think he'd actually see it as an option for himself. They like the chemistry between the two of them, and the fans respond to her (not to mention it's probably fun for friends Matthew and Aubrey to work together). It's not outside the realm of possibility that the show would dangle that as a way to exploit one of Reid's vulnerabilities.