Season 13 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

[normasm]

Well, they are starting tonight with "Surface Tension" in the 9 o'clock slot and "A Good Husband" in the 10 o'clock spot. This is the start of the Spencer arc, the next episode in the lineup would be "Spencer". If they show that next week, do you think it will be in the 10 o'clock slot? If it is, they'll be trying to get us used to the slot, I guess. 

[ReidFan]

CTV is doing it too, the same time slots. Idjits.....they need to indicate it's going to an hour *earlier* not later here. LOL...... Loved Surface Tension. Hated Good Husband, except for the Prentiss & Reid stuff.

The prison arc is much easier to watch when you can watch it all back to back to back without having to wait *weeks* to find out what happens next. It's funny, I'm 'enjoying' (if that's the right term to use) it much more that way than I did when it first aired.

[normasm]

Me, too, Riff. I wonder if the fans who were having such a hard time when this first was shown will have a different take on it. For me, the "back nine" except for Red Light will still be half an episode, because the COTWs were boring and awful. But it did give MGG the time off he wanted, I guess.

[ReidFan]

have to admit, I love having just the prison scenes on the computer, back to back. I never even realised when we were stuck watching the entire episode at a time, for example, that the book Shaw gave Reid in their first meeting, is what Spencer is quoting from when he has the revealing convo with Shaw in the recreation room later. It was an OMG moment for me. 

not sure if that means I'm dense in the first place, that everyone else already caught that. LOL.....

[normasm]

Where he says "you're a (fisherman?) who can't swim"? 

[ReidFan]

Yep. That's the one.  Dunno how I missed it first ten times through.....

[ReidFan]

Lol!!! And an unintentional programming moment of ironic hilarity..... Reid's apartment was just flooded.. and the commercial that was just on was about house insurance and how this particular company even has water detection alerts for your home.  

Sorry.  Carry on. 

[normasm]

Dude is yumm

[Fashionista7]

Got a lump in my throat when she slapped him.

Could this be one of the reasons Reid doesn't like being touched?

11 minutes ago, normasm said:

Dude is yumm

MGG = Mmm-GaGa!!

Très délicieux!!!

[Fashionista7]

19 minutes ago, Fashionista7 said:

Got a lump in my throat when she slapped him.

Could this be one of the reasons Reid doesn't like being touched?

MGG = Mmm-GaGa!!

Très délicieux!!!

The lump returned for the last few minutes towards Surface Tension.

[Fashionista7]

They finally did it!

Season 13 Season Premiere title is...

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/07/upcoming-episode-titles-various-shows_10.html

[Hotchgirl18]

Wheels Up is the title. Wonder what that could mean? 

[ReidFan]

several things, on various levels. I think it was Normasm who mentioned (and I'm paraphrasing and not saying it as well as she did) that one thing it could mean is that there's an inherent need to focus on the job ASAP and get it done. And that could be interpreted in several ways, one of which presumably could mean, whatever issues Reid is having, he'll push aside to attend to the job (with who knows how many--if any-- of the six incapacitated by the accident.) Similarly it could mean, push aside the inevitable loss of Walker (however that goes) again, to get the job done ( to catch who's responsible for his demise/leaving/whatever) on the part of whoever has survived. And it could mean, although his team is grounded, 'wheels up' continues for Matthew Simmons, who's now with the BAU

[normasm]

One thing it does not mean is that Hotch is back. 

[Hotchgirl18]

Sadly.

[Hotchgirl18]

It should mean that.  ? Second episode is titled A Better Place to Be. 

[ReidFan]

Almost.  

13.02 is called To A Better Place

[Hotchgirl18]

So who's gonna croak? With a title like that, it's inevitable. 

[ForeverAlone]

Considering what we have heard about cast changes, it isn't TOO hard to guess who is going to die. :) :) 

[Hotchgirl18]

Why not just kill them all off except for Rossi and Reid and start fresh?  This "new team" just ain't cutting it. 

[ReidFan]

Bodhi Elfman just tweeted a picture of his finger and 'Mr Scratch. Criminal Minds. I can't say anymore'

 

let's hope it's SCRATCH that's going 'To A Better Place' ........

[normasm]

And that Reid helps send him there

[ReidFan]

Scratch takes <name the BAU member-- my vote Rossi or Alvez--but anyone except Prentiss or Reid> prisoner. Taunts the BAU. Even over Walker's demise. Whoever's recovered enough from the cliffhanger accident (hoping Prentiss) sets in motion the plan to get <prisoner> back. Calls Reid in --whether he's still suspended or whatever or not-- to help. They--cause Reid is so smart-- find the hideout. Whatever tension mounts, etc etc, climaxes in showdown, Scratch holding <prisoner>, Prentiss at a showdown with Scratch and Reid comes in and has pretty much no choice but to shoot Scratch dead.

yeah, something like that. 

[Hotchgirl18]

Let's hope it's Scratch. Or Prentiss. Then we can make Reid the unit chief. And Reid can get rid of scratch. Permanently.

And I don't think Scratch is going to a better place, per se. I don't think he's heaven material. But Satan will have a field day with him. 

[roamyn]

37 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

Bodhi Elfman just tweeted a picture of his finger and 'Mr Scratch. Criminal Minds. I can't say anymore'

 

let's hope it's SCRATCH that's going 'To A Better Place' ........

Scratch wouldn't be going to "A Better Place", tho.  

LOL

[ReidFan]

"To A Better Place" and by that, for Scratch, I meant straight down......

 

 

[JMO]

If they dispense with Scratch (and I hope they do), logic would dictate that there should be a mention of Hotch, and what it means for him.  I hope we will learn that Aaron is remarried, and his wife is due any day with their daughter.   It can be done via phone call, or just a conversation at the round table.  And Hotch can live happily ever after.

[Hotchgirl18]

2 minutes ago, JMO said:

If they dispense with Scratch (and I hope they do), logic would dictate that there should be a mention of Hotch, and what it means for him.  I hope we will learn that Aaron is remarried, and his wife is due any day with their daughter.   It can be done via phone call, or just a conversation at the round table.  And Hotch can live happily ever after.

They should mention him. Or, once scratch is disposed of, Hotch can come back! ? 

14 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Scratch wouldn't be going to "A Better Place", tho.  

LOL

I don't think he's heaven material. Lol. 

[JMO]

Maybe Hotch has found 'a better place', and it's not with the BAU.

[Hotchgirl18]

3 minutes ago, JMO said:

Maybe Hotch has found 'a better place', and it's not with the BAU.

I hope they don't kill him off! That would be VERY disrespectful to the character, the actor, and to the fans. And that would ensure that he couldn't come back. Which might be TPTB's goal..:/ 

[normasm]

"Mr. Scratch" is another name for Satan, so, no, he wouldn't expect to go to "Heaven."

If Hotch can find a better place and not come back to the BAU as JMO suggested, that would be a nice way to tie up the journey with the character. If they do this, though, they really need to spend a little time with the team discussing it, etc. I hope it's possible to do a retrospective of Hotch moments; i think it would be: CBS/ABC owns the performances TG has made, so this would be a way to say a respectful goodbye to the character we love. It would be lazy to kill him off.

[JMO]

 Last season, I thought killing Hotch off could have been a good way to properly pay tribute to the character, through the grief and memories of the team.  He could have died a hero, and especially if it had already been determined that the actor could never come back.  Why not give him a proper send off?  

But now that Scratch has been running around for another full year, I think they just need to put both characters to rest---Hotch, happily, and Scratch, not so much.  I agree that it should take more than a line or two.  And I don't think they should be afraid to have a character mention him now and again, throughout.  It would make for good character development for Emily, Reid and Rossi in particular.

[Hotchgirl18]

18 minutes ago, JMO said:

 Last season, I thought killing Hotch off could have been a good way to properly pay tribute to the character, through the grief and memories of the team.  He could have died a hero, and especially if it had already been determined that the actor could never come back.  Why not give him a proper send off?  

But now that Scratch has been running around for another full year, I think they just need to put both characters to rest---Hotch, happily, and Scratch, not so much.  I agree that it should take more than a line or two.  And I don't think they should be afraid to have a character mention him now and again, throughout.  It would make for good character development for Emily, Reid and Rossi in particular.

He deserves a proper tribute. Especially after what they put him through. The cynical part of me isn't so hopeful. Bear in mind that Erica Messer and her crew hate Hotch and everything he is. They'd rather just forget about him so they can push their agenda. And after the disaster that was Elliott 's Pond, I can't see the team grieving over him. They practically had a party when Prentiss was named successor. It'd be nice though. Be nice if he could come back. And then the show would be Criminal Minds again and they'd have a solid foundation again. And some real leadership. 

[JMO]

I think the only agenda is putting on a good show, even if we don't always agree on their success with that.  Can't think what other agenda might be being 'pushed'.  Prentiss was made to feel welcome because she was an old friend, coming into the position at a trying time, at the suggestion of her predecessor.  I think they were happy that it was someone they knew, and respected, and not a complete stranger.  

[normasm]

32 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Bear in mind that Erica Messer and her crew hate Hotch and everything he is. They'd rather just forget about him so they can push their agenda. 

This is just not true, HG. Why would she or anybody else who makes their living off this show hate one of the main characters? They wouldn't and don't. They made Prentiss the chief because that was making the best of a bad situation when the actor who played Hotch was not allowed back on set. I'm with JMO, I'm glad it wasn't a new character, but someone most of us really enjoyed, and who had team rapport already.

[Hotchgirl18]

41 minutes ago, normasm said:

This is just not true, HG. Why would she or anybody else who makes their living off this show hate one of the main characters? They wouldn't and don't. They made Prentiss the chief because that was making the best of a bad situation when the actor who played Hotch was not allowed back on set. I'm with JMO, I'm glad it wasn't a new character, but someone most of us really enjoyed, and who had team rapport already.

Then explain WHY he was treated like crap from season 7-11. I understand Thomas took off to be with his family. WHY was the UNIT CHIEF just relegated to the background while everyone else was solving the case?  Erica's little darlings are JJ and Morgan and they got everything. And prentiss. They have made it very clear that if they could bring her back, they would. Jim Clemente said the ONLY character who would have a fighting chance in real life as an agent was Aaron Hotchner. 

TPTB wanted to take this show in a "new direction." And Hotch did not fit with that direction. 

[Aethera]

This is not the place to keep rehashing the Hotch thing to death, or to discuss previous seasons. This for Season 13 discussion. Please take the Hotch discussion to the Hotch thread.

[Hotchgirl18]

59 minutes ago, JMO said:

I think the only agenda is putting on a good show, even if we don't always agree on their success with that.  Can't think what other agenda might be being 'pushed'.  Prentiss was made to feel welcome because she was an old friend, coming into the position at a trying time, at the suggestion of her predecessor.  I think they were happy that it was someone they knew, and respected, and not a complete stranger.  

Changing the dynamic of the show and what it's supposed to be about. I want to see actual profiling. And I don't want to know who the unsub is five minutes into the episode. 

[secnarf]

13 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Changing the dynamic of the show and what it's supposed to be about. I want to see actual profiling. And I don't want to know who the unsub is five minutes into the episode. 

Call me cynical (or optimistic?) but I don't think this is so much a sinister agenda as it is general (and unintentional) failure to maintain the original quality of the show. It's got nothing to do with the characters who are/are not still around, and no amount of re-shuffling of characters/adding new ones/taking old ones away is going to fix this problem.

[Hotchgirl18]

3 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Call me cynical (or optimistic?) but I don't think this is so much a sinister agenda as it is general (and unintentional) failure to maintain the original quality of the show. It's got nothing to do with the characters who are/are not still around, and no amount of re-shuffling of characters/adding new ones/taking old ones away is going to fix this problem.

These guys wouldn't know continuity of it danced up and smacked them in the nose. It's mainly a writing problem. But they need to understand the characters!

[Princess Lucky]

15 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Changing the dynamic of the show and what it's supposed to be about. I want to see actual profiling. And I don't want to know who the unsub is five minutes into the episode. 

In my view, the actual profiling stopped, like, before Prentiss left the first time. So that's not a new development at all, it's practically half the show, now. But I do agree, I've been hoping for a "back to basics" approach for a while.

As for Season 13, I agree that if the Mr. Scratch storyline is finally resolved, and it looks like it might, they should absolutely mention Hotch, at length, and use that resolution to provide total and final closure to Hotch fans. A new job, or a new family, an update on little Jack.

And I'm curious to see if the departing cast member will translate into their character dying. That might be dramatic, but I don't know how fun it would be to watch (the team mourning, I mean).

Lastly, I remain totally excited over Daniel Henney and I'm not ashamed to say it.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[Hotchgirl18]

3 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

In my view, the actual profiling stopped, like, before Prentiss left the first time. So that's not a new development at all, it's practically half the show, now. But I do agree, I've been hoping for a "back to basics" approach for a while.

As for Season 13, I agree that if the Mr. Scratch storyline is finally resolved, and it looks like it might, they should absolutely mention Hotch, at length, and use that resolution to provide total and final closure to Hotch fans. A new job, or a new family, an update on little Jack.

And I'm curious to see if the departing cast member will translate into their character dying. That might be dramatic, but I don't know how fun it would be to watch (the team mourning, I mean).

Lastly, I remain totally excited over Daniel Henney and I'm not ashamed to say it.

Yes. They should mention Hotch. We deserve it.  Period. 

[wknt3]

On 7/17/2017 at 8:32 AM, Princess Lucky said:

In my view, the actual profiling stopped, like, before Prentiss left the first time. So that's not a new development at all, it's practically half the show, now. But I do agree, I've been hoping for a "back to basics" approach for a while.

I think a lot of fans have. I know that's it harder than "magic computer solves everything after we say the UNSUB is devolving and then we kick down the door", but given the number of new writers and new characters since they did any sort of sustained profiling and psychological exploration of killers it seems like it would be both new and old school at the same time. They're rehashing anyways so why not go for something smarter and probably cheaper as well as going back to basics?
 

Quote

As for Season 13, I agree that if the Mr. Scratch storyline is finally resolved, and it looks like it might, they should absolutely mention Hotch, at length, and use that resolution to provide total and final closure to Hotch fans. A new job, or a new family, an update on little Jack.

Absolutely. Finish the story. Give us an ending that respects the character and his fans and move on. There's no need to avoid it any longer and they have time now to work things out and do it right.
 

Quote

And I'm curious to see if the departing cast member will translate into their character dying. That might be dramatic, but I don't know how fun it would be to watch (the team mourning, I mean).

I hope not. I don't really care either way about the character, but I'm not interested in the plot at all. If it is what it takes to finally be done with Mr. Scratch once and for all I will happily accept that trade off though!

[Hotchgirl18]

15 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

I think a lot of fans have. I know that's it harder than "magic computer solves everything after we say the UNSUB is devolving and then we kick down the door", but given the number of new writers and new characters since they did any sort of sustained profiling and psychological exploration of killers it seems like it would be both new and old school at the same time. They're rehashing anyways so why not go for something smarter and probably cheaper as well as going back to basics?
 

Absolutely. Finish the story. Give us an ending that respects the character and his fans and move on. There's no need to avoid it any longer and they have time now to work things out and do it right.
 

I hope not. I don't really care either way about the character, but I'm not interested in the plot at all. If it is what it takes to finally be done with Mr. Scratch once and for all I will happily accept that trade off though!

I just want Hotch to have the respect he deserves. 

[Danielg342]

I actually thought S12 was the "back to basics, profiling-first" Criminal Minds. We didn't get a lot of torture porn, not too many explosions, very little JJ (and what we did get of her she was an actual human being) and- though I don't have the proper statistics- we didn't the UnSub early in a lot of episodes. Cat Adams was taken down in "Green Light" because Reid played an excellent mind game with her, and stuff like "True North" and "Profiling 202" was purely behavioural.

The problem I had with S12 is that we didn't get the "twists and turns" and all the other storywriting features that make for good storywriting. We pretty much sat through episodes that were glorified university lectures (in one case being an actual university lecture) where the team and the characters were just actors explaining the behavioural crime of the week. I don't believe we ever really got any misdirects or red herrings, as the only "twist" I can think of that happened was the reveal that Adams was behind Reid's misfortunes, not Mr. Scratch.

I also believe the acting really stunk. This has been an issue for most of the later years, but S12 didn't have the quality of star performers that other years had and it showed. When you don't have actors that can elevate material, you writing is really exposed.

Now, I grant that much of S12's slapdash performance was due to the program having to adjust without Hotch. Which I understand. However, the recent changes don't give me much hope that CM has learned from its mistakes- this still seems to be a "fly by the seat of their pants" production team and they have yet to prove that anything they've done has worked long-term.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Danielg342

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

I actually thought S12 was the "back to basics, profiling-first" Criminal Minds. We didn't get a lot of torture porn, not too many explosions, very little JJ (and what we did get of her she was an actual human being) and- though I don't have the proper statistics- we didn't the UnSub early in a lot of episodes. Cat Adams was taken down in "Green Light" because Reid played an excellent mind game with her, and stuff like "True North" and "Profiling 202" was purely behavioural.

The problem I had with S12 is that we didn't get the "twists and turns" and all the other storywriting features that make for good storywriting. We pretty much sat through episodes that were glorified university lectures (in one case being an actual university lecture) where the team and the characters were just actors explaining the behavioural crime of the week. I don't believe we ever really got any misdirects or red herrings, as the only "twist" I can think of that happened was the reveal that Adams was behind Reid's misfortunes, not Mr. Scratch.

I also believe the acting really stunk. This has been an issue for most of the later years, but S12 didn't have the quality of star performers that other years had and it showed. When you don't have actors that can elevate material, you writing is really exposed.

Now, I grant that much of S12's slapdash performance was due to the program having to adjust without Hotch. Which I understand. However, the recent changes don't give me much hope that CM has learned from its mistakes- this still seems to be a "fly by the seat of their pants" production team and they have to prove that anything they've done has worked long-term.

There's a fine line. I want to see profiling first and all. I don't want to see torture porn and unsub, unsub, unsub. But I don't want to see university lectures either. I get enough of those during school days. So it's a fine line and they're REALLY gonna have to find that balance. They need to work on characterization which is also an issue. 

[Danielg342]

55 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

They need to work on characterization which is also an issue.

...and commit to the characters too. No reason to hire someone for half a season, give him a backstory in one episode and then boot him unceremoniously, while earlier bringing in another and not even getting into his backstory at all.

[Fashionista7]

13x02 episode title:

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/07/upcoming-episode-titles-various-shows_20.html

[wknt3]

On 7/18/2017 at 6:33 PM, Danielg342 said:

I actually thought S12 was the "back to basics, profiling-first" Criminal Minds. We didn't get a lot of torture porn, not too many explosions, very little JJ (and what we did get of her she was an actual human being) and- though I don't have the proper statistics- we didn't the UnSub early in a lot of episodes. Cat Adams was taken down in "Green Light" because Reid played an excellent mind game with her, and stuff like "True North" and "Profiling 202" was purely behavioural.

Good point. I have to confess that I haven't paid as close attention as I used to, but thinking about it you are right. So maybe they have the right idea they just need to do it more and better. Not too hard right? :-)

[Danielg342]

11 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Not too hard right? :-)

You're think...but these writers have absolutely no forward thinking skills so I don't have much hope.