S06.E20: Let's Try To Get Along

[lezlers]

Oh I COMPLETELY agree that if someone is unable to stop drinking while pregnant they've got a problem.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that disagrees with that statement.  But if you take Maci at her word that she didn't know she was pregnant when she was still drinking (it's unlikely but plausible since she was post partum with no period yet and still skinny as a rail, goddamn her) then all you've really got left is one time years ago in her early twenties away from her child getting hammered.  That's not really enough to justify calling her an alcoholic (I know you aren't, just making the argument.)

So if I understand your post correctly, the difference between a functioning alcoholic and just a regular person who enjoys a glass of wine at night is the inability to stop drinking under circumstances that dictate they shouldn't be drinking.  For example, my functioning alcoholic ex who kept bottles of booze in her desk drawer at work and would regularly drink to the point of passing out in the evenings, yet was still able to maintain a professional job and relationships.

[Christina]

Maci has been shown falling down drunk on social media since she was a teenager. When this show was on hiatus, her mom was caught and photographed dropping off a case of beer to under-21 Maci's house, where she was living with the other young girls. She has been shown, on this show, drinking all day, not just having one at dinner, and she and Taylor have been shown drunk. I haven't watched most of this season, so can't pinpoint a time this year, but in my opinion, they are both alcoholics and I have no problem calling them that. I still don't know why they didn't invest in a local craft brewery instead of that ugly tee-shirt business. 

I also think she has earned the "mean-girl" title, and has adorable babies.

[CofCinci]

54 minutes ago, Christina said:

I still don't know why they didn't invest in a local craft brewery instead of that ugly tee-shirt business. 

Because they have shit taste in beer.

If you're going to give your baby FAS, please poison the thing with something better than a Bud Light.

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, Christina said:

Maci has been shown falling down drunk on social media since she was a teenager. When this show was on hiatus, her mom was caught and photographed dropping off a case of beer to under-21 Maci's house, where she was living with the other young girls. She has been shown, on this show, drinking all day, not just having one at dinner, and she and Taylor have been shown drunk. I haven't watched most of this season, so can't pinpoint a time this year, but in my opinion, they are both alcoholics and I have no problem calling them that. I still don't know why they didn't invest in a local craft brewery instead of that ugly tee-shirt business. 

I also think she has earned the "mean-girl" title, and has adorable babies.

You have a great memory. 

I came across this article with a photo of Maci drinking while underage:

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/07/maci-bookout-drinking-beer-teen-mom/

One scene I remember is when Maci was pregnant, but hadn't divulged it yet on the show. She was out with her friend and they were drinking Margaritas. Maci had claimed she wasn't aware yet she was pregnant. Sure, Jan. This is the scene:

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2016/02/15/mtv-captures-pregnant-maci-bookout-drinking-alcohol-on-camera/

Speaking of Maci, CPS, and drinking, she will tell you she does not have a drinking problem in her new book!

https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/05/maci-bookout-i-dont-have-a-drinking-problem-leave-me-alone/

 

The time TMZ caught up with Maci to confront her about her apparent under-age drinking. Maci says she was 18 years old and Bentley wasn't with her when she was boozing it up during Spring Break: 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=maci+bookout+beer+bonging&view=detail&mid=BF25012DE06D0059882CBF25012DE06D0059882C&FORM=VIRE

Edited May 18, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Faul McCartney]

4 hours ago, lezlers said:

Man when I was on maternity leave I couldn't wait to go back to work.  Now that I'm back at work I miss being on leave.  Only when my babies were babies tho.  You know, when you can plop them down on a blanket and watch trash tv while they play happily, not when they're toddlers and silence becomes a terrifying realization that something horrific is probably happening in another area of the house.  You're in the sweet spot girl, enjoy the hell out of it. 

Now back to your regularly scheduled snarking  ;) 

Thanks ? She's almost four months and in the last few weeks she's been paying a LOT more attention to the TV.  I know it's just the lights flashing but my husband already banned any Real Housewives around her since they can imitate from such a young age, LOL. I always tell her to never speak to me the way Farrah does to Deb!

Edited May 18, 2017 by Faul McCartney

[Faul McCartney]

3 hours ago, lezlers said:

Oh I COMPLETELY agree that if someone is unable to stop drinking while pregnant they've got a problem.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that disagrees with that statement.  But if you take Maci at her word that she didn't know she was pregnant when she was still drinking (it's unlikely but plausible since she was post partum with no period yet and still skinny as a rail, goddamn her) then all you've really got left is one time years ago in her early twenties away from her child getting hammered.  That's not really enough to justify calling her an alcoholic (I know you aren't, just making the argument.)

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Maci *knew* she was pregnant when she was drinking. Maybe deep down a part of her knew, but I think it's more likely that she just didn't let her mind go there, even if she had suspicions. It's seems crazy because her belly was SO pregnant at the ultrasound (she was 21 weeks). I just watched the mid-season catch up clip show today and she was so obviously pregnant then. But assuming she found out at the doctor's office - not the lame reenactment of taking a test at home with Taylor - somewhere around 19 or 20 weeks, she *may* not have looked as pregnant then. Some people's bellies pop drastically in a few weeks. I don't know, she's so thin normally but she was newly postpartum from Jayde then. I know she formula feeds but she may not have even gotten a period yet. If you're formula feeding and don't get a period for six months postpartum, is that weird? Idk, I breastfeed. I certainly don't think we know enough to condemn her to hell for knowingly drinking while pregnant. 

That said, I do think she probably has a drinking problem that could get out of hand if she's not careful - said as I sip wine and watch my baby on the monitor!

[Calm81]

8 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

You have a great memory. 

I came across this article with a photo of Maci drinking while underage:

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/07/maci-bookout-drinking-beer-teen-mom/

One scene I remember is when Maci was pregnant, but hadn't divulged it yet on the show. She was out with her friend and they were drinking Margaritas. Maci had claimed she wasn't aware yet she was pregnant. Sure, Jan. This is the scene:

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2016/02/15/mtv-captures-pregnant-maci-bookout-drinking-alcohol-on-camera/

Speaking of Maci, CPS, and drinking, she will tell you she does not have a drinking problem in her new book!

https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/05/maci-bookout-i-dont-have-a-drinking-problem-leave-me-alone/

 

The time TMZ caught up with Maci to confront her about her apparent under-age drinking. Maci says she was 18 years old and Bentley wasn't with her when she was boozing it up during Spring Break: 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=maci+bookout+beer+bonging&view=detail&mid=BF25012DE06D0059882CBF25012DE06D0059882C&FORM=VIRE

Thanks for the links but my gawd I hate radar. I spend most of my time trying to X out the ads to avoid clicking the advertisements. I will click previously TVs ads once and a while to give them income for this site but radar is ridiculous with it - rant over.

Maci can tell us until she's blue in the face but she always has a beer nearby, decorations in her house proclaiming their love for beer or makes comments like "Alright now I need 14 beers" after doing that escape room thing, which btw looks super fun so now I'm asking my hubby to go with me. ?

Edited May 18, 2017 by Calm81

[CofCinci]

Pregnant.

Pregnant.

 

 

I can understand wanting to have a good time at your wedding, but do you need to drink while the wedding photographer is trying to take pictures?

She takes on the alcohol of choice of her man though.  Bet she never drinks Corona now.

http://www.teenmomnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/maci-bookout-kyle-king-teen-mom-twitter3.jpg

Edited May 18, 2017 by CofCinci

[lezlers]

9 hours ago, Faul McCartney said:

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Maci *knew* she was pregnant when she was drinking. Maybe deep down a part of her knew, but I think it's more likely that she just didn't let her mind go there, even if she had suspicions. It's seems crazy because her belly was SO pregnant at the ultrasound (she was 21 weeks). I just watched the mid-season catch up clip show today and she was so obviously pregnant then. But assuming she found out at the doctor's office - not the lame reenactment of taking a test at home with Taylor - somewhere around 19 or 20 weeks, she *may* not have looked as pregnant then. Some people's bellies pop drastically in a few weeks. I don't know, she's so thin normally but she was newly postpartum from Jayde then. I know she formula feeds but she may not have even gotten a period yet. If you're formula feeding and don't get a period for six months postpartum, is that weird? Idk, I breastfeed. I certainly don't think we know enough to condemn her to hell for knowingly drinking while pregnant. 

That said, I do think she probably has a drinking problem that could get out of hand if she's not careful - said as I sip wine and watch my baby on the monitor!

I formula fed my first and did a combo with my second.  I think my period came around 8 weeks with both? I agree with you though that it's possible she didn't know due to a variety of factors that you talked about in your post.   I cut Maci some slack because raising a baby when you're a teenager practically on your own, then having two under two on top of that (it doesn't matter if she wanted it or not) is stressful as hell for an adult, much less someone in their early twenties.  If the girl wants to have a couple of beers in the evenings or party on vacation when her kids aren't around, I'm not going to slam her for it.  Especially the underage drinking when she was living in a sorority house in college.  Who here that went to college DIDN'T drink before they were 21?  Glass houses and all that.

 

ETA:  I just saw the pics in the post above mine.  Yeah WE can say she's pregnant in those pics because we knew after the fact.  She was just a few months post partum from Jayde, tho.  Not everyone walks out of the hospital after having a baby with washboard abs.  Especially when they drink beer on the regular.   I like to keep my hate about Maci to her ability to stay thin despite her steady stream of (shitty) beer and frequent popping out of babies.

Edited May 18, 2017 by lezlers

[Christina]

Maci had photos of her with an almost flat stomach weeks after having Jayde. The woman has no ability to hold onto weight. She was thin, then obviously pregnant, and it was being pointed out on social media that she had a belly and beer and looked pregnant way before she finally admitted it. Then, her fans were saying that she was probably just holding the beer, and we couldn't say that the beer in the cup holder or right in front of her belonged to her, which okay, maybe we couldn't prove what appeared to be obvious but this is a snark site and social media we were talking about, not a court of law, but even they acknowledged her obvious pregnant belly, because she had lost Jayde's weight so quickly. Her story about learning she was pregnant changed a few times too, then again when she took the pregnancy test on the show. The woman also has no ability to lie convincingly. Positive trait for anyone not on a reality television show. 

In my opinion, there are no "glass house" issues here. All the responses are in response to the assertion that we are judging her for having a beer with dinner, which is no big deal, and we shouldn't be calling her lushes or, in my case, an alcoholic. We are responding that we are not saying that because she is having a beer at dinner. She has a long, extensive history of drinking excessively, which most of us didn't think anything of until she continued while pregnant, at which point some of us thought she has a problem. There was some judging of her partying constantly in the home with Bentley, but that took place during the time that TM was on hiatus and she was trying to get her own show, which became the Being Maci one-off.  I'm not judging her for drinking underage, just pointed it out her history in response to the comments about us not knowing how much she drinks and that she hasn't been shown drunk. She has.

[SPLAIN]

Quote

Especially the underage drinking when she was living in a sorority house in college.

@lezlers I don't recall Maci living in a sorority house. I do recall her living with girlfriends in a house that she supposedly bought with another girlfriend. They did behave like college girls living in a sorority house. The difference was, Bentley was living there with them. 

I'd like to point out that we are not putting our lives out there publicly like Maci and putting on a front. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by SPLAIN

[WhosThatGirl]

The thing is the Maci we get now is very different from the one we were introduced to. (Look in the Maci thread for my longer opinion on this). But I also feel this way about the first narrative we got for Cate and Tyler. Their story was so different in their first episode. I thought they were good kids trying to get by with crappy family situations They couldn't change. And while some of that was relevant, they themselves have aided situations to be what they are as well.

Edited May 19, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[SPLAIN]

15 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The thing is the Maci we get now is very different from the one we were introduced to. (Look in the Maci thread for my longer opinion on this). But I also feel this way about the first narrative we got for Cate and Tyler. Their story was so different in their first episode. I thought they were good kids trying to get by with crappy family situations They couldn't change. And while some of that was relevant, they themselves have aided situations to be what they are as well.

That is because MTV heavily edited the hell out of the show and showed us what they wanted to show us. If MTV had just shown us the real C&T, we would have been shown when they were smoking pot back then and the arrest of those two for possession of marijuana a week after Cate gave birth to Carly:http://www.wetpaint.com/catelynn-lowell-and-tyler-baltierra-were-arrested-for-smoking-pot-773181/

MTV wasn't going to share with us the two pot-smoking kids who had just given up their child and who were arrested shortly thereafter because that wouldn't have fallen under their narrative. 

Maci had the pleasure of using Ryan as her storyline (still does) because he was and still is lacking in the fatherhood department. 

[ghoulina]

I think there's probably a combination of some people getting the "good edit", and also the show/fame changing these people. I don't care if people smoke pot. What you put in your own body is your business. That alone wouldn't make them bad people, to me. I think they actually were pretty good kids when they first had Carly. They seemed motivated and sensible. But this show has made them lazy and entitled and obsessed with themselves. It's not a good look. 

I never really saw Maci as some perfect angel, so I don't see much of a change in her from then to now. Frankly, I find Maci rather flat - so it's hard to see highs and lows with her, haha!

[SPLAIN]

Being good or bad has nothing to do with pot, and that wasn't where I was going with my comment. It simply would have been a more honest view of C&T and the lives they were living.  Part of the narrative seemed to be C&T were not falling into the drug and alcohol trap like Butch and April, and they were breaking the vicious cycle that seemed to be the norm in their family. Perhaps Bethenny had a part in the narrative, too.

[ghoulina]

Okay, I get what you're saying. It seems deceptive. I can see that. But with pot being illegal back then, especially, I don't blame people for trying to hide it. Compared to Butch and April, they do seem to be better parents - no domestic violence, no hard drugs (although, that's speculated), no jail time. But it's sad when the bar is set that low. 

[SPLAIN]

Yes, deceptive. Especially when MTV had no problem whatsoever to showcase other crimes such as DV, heroin-use, and child neglect. That doesn't include the cast members not using their seat belts while driving and using their phones while driving which is against the law. It is the kind-edit that you and I are fully aware of that MTV has engaged in.. Even if they had been shown smoking pot, my sympathy would have remained only because it was an honest depiction of their lives and my feeling would have been those two were trying to escape from the hell hole that was their home life and were likely exposed to pot smoking all their lives.

[JBC344]

I've got to give it up to Ryan, he really seemed engaged and interested in being a good father this episode.  Just last episode I was very invested in giving my opinion about what Ryan needs to do to be a father and how nothing will change until he makes that switch.  In all fairness, I think he made the right moves this episode.  His next step would be getting the confidence and conviction to talk to his parents about how they need to "step back" a little and let him take over the parenting role on their side of the family.

[lezlers]

18 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I think there's probably a combination of some people getting the "good edit", and also the show/fame changing these people. I don't care if people smoke pot. What you put in your own body is your business. That alone wouldn't make them bad people, to me. I think they actually were pretty good kids when they first had Carly. They seemed motivated and sensible. But this show has made them lazy and entitled and obsessed with themselves. It's not a good look. 

I never really saw Maci as some perfect angel, so I don't see much of a change in her from then to now. Frankly, I find Maci rather flat - so it's hard to see highs and lows with her, haha!

I totally agree. Hell, pot is legal in an increasing number of states now anyway, who cares.  It's better than booze.  I completely agree with your assessment of Caitlyn and Tyler: the show has done them NO favors.

16 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Yes, deceptive. Especially when MTV had no problem whatsoever to showcase other crimes such as DV, heroin-use, and child neglect. That doesn't include the cast members not using their seat belts while driving and using their phones while driving which is against the law. It is the kind-edit that you and I are fully aware of that MTV has engaged in.. Even if they had been shown smoking pot, my sympathy would have remained only because it was an honest depiction of their lives and my feeling would have been those two were trying to escape from the hell hole that was their home life and were likely exposed to pot smoking all their lives.

Totally, 100% agree with this too.  

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, JBC344 said:

I've got to give it up to Ryan, he really seemed engaged and interested in being a good father this episode.  Just last episode I was very invested in giving my opinion about what Ryan needs to do to be a father and how nothing will change until he makes that switch.  In all fairness, I think he made the right moves this episode.  His next step would be getting the confidence and conviction to talk to his parents about how they need to "step back" a little and let him take over the parenting role on their side of the family.

It's funny how different perceptions are. I didn't really see Ryan invested in anything this episode except his phone, and trying to stay awake. I think the things he's saying about Bentley and visitation are largely because of Mackenzie's influence. If he DOES get more time with his son, SHE'LL be taking care of him. 

[CofCinci]

How old is Mackenzie's kid?  Ryan and Mackenzie probably want Bentley around to entertain her kid -- much like how Janelle wants Jace for Marissa. 

[ghoulina]

From the pics I've seen him in, he looks about 2-3. 

[JBC344]

I believe McKenzie said she got married during her senior year of high school, I'm assuming because she was pregnant.  If she is 20 now her child is 2-3.

[ginger90]

A picture of her son

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTUC39eF7yg/?taken-by=kenziestandifer&hl=en