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I thought I start a thread about "Gene". As you know at the start of every season we get a black and white look at Gene's life, with the 3rd season opener being the  longest one yet.  And my question is what's the point? 

I mean, I know what the point is, it's to show use how far Jimmy/Saul has fallen and how depressing he and his life have become but, is there an end game?

In other words what is this leading to? Does Gene kill himself, does he say fuck it and try to become a lawyer again under a new name or does he heads off to Belize?

Thoughts?

Edited by FortKnox
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Is it the case that we've only seen Gene scenes at the opening of each season?  Or have there been more?  I don't know how much is even possible with a small amount of screen time per season.  I don't think there's any hopeful or happy ending for Gene, but then again the guy has re-invented himself a few times.  He seems like he's pretty much quaking in his boots much of the time, so he might be on a Chuck-like trajectory. 

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I wish we saw more of Gene. It's one of my favorite parts of the show. I hope he can find a way to live with his past and find a little comfort at the end of all of this. Or maybe by the end, when we see the wake of destruction he's left, sad, scared Gene is what he deserves. 

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I would like to see more Gene as well. I believe all we have seen of him is in the cold opens of the premiere episodes of each season.  I would love to see Gene reacting to news reports about the manhunt for Walter White.  

One thing I notice is that Gene seems to identify more with Saul than with Jimmy.  In 101 he watches videos of "Better Call Saul" ads, as he drinks his rusty nail on a snowy evening, after a long day at Cinnabon, not his "Gimme Jimmy" ads.

In 201, when trapped in the garbage room, he writes "SG was here", not "JM was here" on the wall.  

In 301, I suppose him yelling to the shoplifter to not say anything and ask for a lawyer could have been either Jimmy or Saul, but it is something I'd associate more with Saul than Jimmy.  

One little possible tidbit is that, in her interview with Schweigart and Coakely, Kim, while being evasive about what town she came from, mentioned that it was in Kansas, near the Nebraska border. Omaha is not too far from the Kansas border.  I wonder if that could be a little foreshadowing about a reunion with "Gene". 

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3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

One thing I notice is that Gene seems to identify more with Saul than with Jimmy.  In 101 he watches videos of "Better Call Saul" ads, as he drinks his rusty nail on a snowy evening, after a long day at Cinnabon, not his "Gimme Jimmy" ads.

In 201, when trapped in the garbage room, he writes "SG was here", not "JM was here" on the wall.  

Now that you mention it, this makes me wonder if he has repudiated his McGill identity totally, willingly, as a distancing from anything related to Chuck.  Maybe it is not Chuck who forces a name change, but Jimmy who does it voluntarily.  That would be interesting.

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On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 5:15 PM, FortKnox said:

thought I start a thread about "Gene". As you know at the start of every season we get a black and white look at Gene's life, with the 3rd season opener being the  longest one yet.  And my question is what's the point? 

I mean, I know what the point is, it's to show use how far Jimmy/Saul has fallen and how depressing he and his life have become but, is there an end game?

In other words what is this leading to? Does Gene kill himself, does he say fuck it and try to become a lawyer again under a new name or does he heads off to Belize?

Thoughts?

Quote

In 201, when trapped in the garbage room, he writes "SG was here", not "JM was here" on the wall

 

I forgot which thread, but someone did a beautiful analysis of the scene of Gene stuck in the Alley, while he is taking out garbage.  Gene is literally trapped because of Saul, yet it was the height of his power.  There is a button to press for help, but it will bring down the law and Gene can not afford that. 

Our social charming Jimmy can not make connections with other people.  He has to distance himself in a cocoon of solitude, because things will start looking fishy.  This is the life of the schmuck...the one thing Jimmy can not stand.  It looks very dire, but Jimmy/Saul is a survivor...so you really never know.

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Best case scenario: show gets two more seasons. We get one more cold open in Season 4, likely followin up on Gene's fainting spell (panic attack?). 

Then, in Season 5, the black and white Gene world returns after first commercial break, with colours slowly fading in. Maybe that happens right at the start of the season, maybe midway. But we get a present-day resolution to Gene's story. 

I expect no happy ending. 

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40 minutes ago, SignGuy77 said:

Then, in Season 5, the black and white Gene world returns after first commercial break, with colours slowly fading in. Maybe that happens right at the start of the season, maybe midway. But we get a present-day resolution to Gene's story. 

I expect no happy ending. 

Jimmy is taken to the hospital, finds out he had the big C.  He decided to forgo treatment...last scene is Jimmy dying, as a package arrives.  The vacuum cleaner salesman guy who made Jimmy disappear has broken his own rules and sent Jimmy a package.  We find out the package is from Kim.  She actually had JImmy's child and is raising him as a single mother and has a thriving solo practice in the Midwest.  She says the kid is amazingly clever/charming and gets great grades in school.  She writes she always has a special place in her heart for Jimmy, but could not be around Saul.  Jimmy, closes his eyes and smiles....he lived life on his own terms and maybe it did not give him a happy ending, but he is satisfied...he had a good run.  

I really hope the writers come up with something better then what I just wrote, but Gene is really the true mystery of the series, beyond what happened to Kim.

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I'd love to see Kim place an order at the Cinnabon. Or maybe Jesse since he probably wanted to relocate as far away from the meth crew as possible. Pretty much everyone in the BB/BCS universe has met with death or other tragic ending, I'd like to see a little bit of happy with Gene/Saul. Yes, Jesse escaped the white supremacist meth crazies, but after his escape, we really don't know what happens. 

I predict another spin-off, but a sitcom! Heh heh. Kim and Gene marry, and, as it turns out, Jesse is their fun-loving neighbor. Hijinks ensue. It's Friends or Big Bang with a methy past.

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1 minute ago, Atlanta said:

I'd love to see Kim place an order at the Cinnabon. Or maybe Jesse since he probably wanted to relocate as far away from the meth crew as possible. Pretty much everyone in the BB/BCS universe has met with death or other tragic ending, I'd like to see a little bit of happy with Gene/Saul. Yes, Jesse escaped the white supremacist meth crazies, but after his escape, we really don't know what happens. 

I predict another spin-off, but a sitcom! Heh heh. Kim and Gene marry, and, as it turns out, Jesse is their fun-loving neighbor. Hijinks ensue. It's Friends or Big Bang with a methy past.

Jesse is a bush pilot in New Zealand who does aerial tours of the castles from LOTR.  He goes by the alias of Diesel Jackson and lives with his adopted children, SJ (Spooge Jr.) Jackson,  Brock Cantillo-Jackson, Kaylee Ehrmantruat-Jackson, and Kiira Rodarte-Quayle-Jackson.  

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27 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Jesse is a bush pilot in New Zealand who does aerial tours of the castles from LOTR.  He goes by the alias of Diesel Jackson and lives with his adopted children, SJ (Spooge Jr.) Jackson,  Brock Cantillo-Jackson, Kaylee Ehrmantruat-Jackson, and Kiira Rodarte-Quayle-Jackson.  

Bwahaha! Perfect!! Kim and Gene honeymoon in NZ and Jesse takes them on a tour of Middle Earth.

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6 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Bwahaha! Perfect!! Kim and Gene honeymoon in NZ and Jesse takes them on a tour of Middle Earth.

Excellent!  Except Kim will need an alias, as well.  I vote Giselle St. Claire.  

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Would Gene come out of hiding to attend Chuck's funeral?

Logically, no way.   But lots of things in life override our logic and common sense and cause us to do irrational things we'd have a hard time explaining even to ourselves.

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6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Would Gene come out of hiding to attend Chuck's funeral?

Logically, no way.   But lots of things in life override our logic and common sense and cause us to do irrational things we'd have a hard time explaining even to ourselves.

Maybe he would go disguised at Howard Hamlin, like he did for the billboard. :)  Gene doesn't seem to have enough hair left for Spartacus ringlets, so he might have to wear a piece. :) 

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17 hours ago, Atlanta said:

I will feel really, really let down if there's no Gene closure at the end of the series. I wish we got more flash-forwards.

I see what you mean and I would feel the same, if I didn't feel that when we do start seeing more it will mean the end is near.  My hope is at that point we will see more of Jimmy emerge again.   I will not miss Saul and dread him emerging.

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https://uproxx.com/tv/bob-odenkirk-better-call-saul-reddit-theories/amp/

Meanwhile, Saul Goodman himself, Bob Odenkirk, is also out promoting Incredibles 2, and on last night’s The Late Late Show with James Corden, Odenkirk took a minute backstage to react to a few Reddit theories about Better Call Saul. The first and third theories were silly, and Odenkirk didn’t give much thought to them. However, Odenkirk didn’t outright dismiss the second theory, which speculates that Jesse Pinkman meets up with Jimmy McGill’s other alter-ego, Gene, in Omaha after the events of Breaking Bad and convinces Gene to pull off one last heist together.

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18 minutes ago, FortKnox said:

Odenkirk didn’t outright dismiss the second theory, which speculates that Jesse Pinkman meets up with Jimmy McGill’s other alter-ego, Gene, in Omaha after the events of Breaking Bad and convinces Gene to pull off one last heist together.

Yes, please!

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I've always thought that an eventual Jesse appearance of some sort would make sense.   Even if he is not interacting with other regular characters on the show, I figured we would at least see a reference to him or hear something about him in the Gene/post-Breaking Bad timeline.

Now I don't know if Jesse will try to get Gene/Saul to pull off one last heist, just out of the blue.   In other words, I don't necessarily think that Jesse will just randomly find Gene/Saul in Nebraska or actively hunt him down there, though that's certainly possible.  

What I think could happen is that Gene/Saul/Jimmy won't be able to stay confined to his mundane life at Cinnabon, even though he is safe and mostly out of trouble there.   I think that he won't be able to stay out of the action, and he will somehow leave Nebraska and/or carelessly make himself visible or noticed by the wrong people... and news of his reemergence would then trickle out... or get to Skinny Pete and Badger, and then to Jesse, opening up the pathway for a reunion.

Skyler is another one who could have an eventual Gene/Saul encounter too (as she had dealt with him before), but also probably because Gene/Saul gets sloppy and makes himself visible again. 

But I think a Jesse-Gene/Saul interaction makes the most sense, though, because they did a lot of "business" together.

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On 7/8/2018 at 8:34 AM, PeterPirate said:

Any continuation of the World of Walter White will be eminently watchable.  

I realize that writers are not driven by ratings alone or even pleasing fans, but, if it makes sense and happens, I can envision emotional cries from the viewers, loud gasps and even dancing on the sofa, from the fans. 

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I think Gene will take a risk and find Kim...and that will be his happy ending. First, somehow Jessie might find him and tell him “the danger” will not come knocking and that is when Gene will take a chance.

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I was thinking about a Vince Gilligan/Elmore Leonard mash-up, where a Kentucky organized crime figure, with a penchant for traveling by rv,  fresh off a major score that caused him to leave Kentucky, stops in Omaha, when he has a Cinnabon craving. He strikes up a conversation with the manager, who lets slip that he lived for a time in New Mexico, and the Kentucky criminal says, "Hey, I have a twin brother who works as a drug counselor in New Mexico!" Just then, a Jesse Pinkman walks into the Cinnabon, looks at Wynn Duffy, and gets very confused. Meanwhile, a U.S. Marshal who wears a distinctive hat, recently transferred to the Albuquerque office, gets the Pinkman file! Hijinks ensue!

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19 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

^Better Call Saul: A Wynn-Wynn Situation? ;)

Tell me you wouldn't want Boyd  Crowder to break out of prison, so he could have a scene with Jimmy/Saul/Gene.

Shame Dewey Crowe is departed, precluding Badger and Skinny Pete from getting a new partner.

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4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Tell me you wouldn't want Boyd  Crowder to break out of prison, so he could have a scene with Jimmy/Saul/Gene.

Shame Dewey Crowe is departed, precluding Badger and Skinny Pete from getting a new partner.

I love it when someone makes a comment that relates to some other show that I watch and I feel like I'm in on an inside joke.  I hate it when someone makes a comment that references some show I haven't seen and I have no idea what you're talking about.  For those of us in option B, does someone want to explain?  Or should we just skim over and move forward?

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2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I love it when someone makes a comment that relates to some other show that I watch and I feel like I'm in on an inside joke.  I hate it when someone makes a comment that references some show I haven't seen and I have no idea what you're talking about.  For those of us in option B, does someone want to explain?  Or should we just skim over and move forward?

Go watch Justified on Amazon. I can imagine conversations between characters on that show, and characters on this show, which would be hilarious. 

.

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14 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Go watch Justified on Amazon. I can imagine conversations between characters on that show, and characters on this show, which would be hilarious. 

.

Yeah, I get it, it's cool when someone who watches a show you like watches another show you like. I 'm just not sure what the best practice is when not everyone is familiar with the references & doesn't have the the time/inclination to watch the show that's referenced.  For example, I totally understood when people referenced "john boy" on The Americans.  I guess the bottom line is we can just ignore references that we don't get.  I'll bow out of this now.

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On 7/14/2018 at 5:28 PM, Bannon said:

Go watch Justified on Amazon. I can imagine conversations between characters on that show, and characters on this show, which would be hilarious. 

.

My Justified peep.

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In the 4th season opener isnt't this the 1st time we find out what Gene's last name? Which is something I can't spell and I'm not bothering to look it up.

Also, Cinnabon just opened in our mall a few weeks ago and I really have to go try it now. :)

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5 minutes ago, FortKnox said:

In the 4th season opener isnt't this the 1st time we find out what Gene's last name? Which is something I can't spell and I'm not bothering to look it up.

Also, Cinnabon just opened in our mall a few weeks ago and I really have to go try it now. :)

Yes, this was the first time we hear his last name, Takovic.   

I think the big mystery from the latest Omaha scene is who is the cab driver, with the Albuquerque Isotopes air freshener hanging from his rear view mirror and staring at Jimmy Saul Gene in the mirror?  Some have speculated it is Howard.

I wonder if he bought the air freshener at A-1 Car Wash?  

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Is it the case that we only see Gene scenes in the opener and final episodes of each season?  Or are they interspersed?  I can't remember.  Anyway, after this encounter with the taxi driver and having his info in the hospital database, I wonder if Gene will ever go back to the Cinnabon.  He may flee.  Or if not, become increasingly and intensely more paranoid and go down a similar path to what Chuck did. 

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12 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Is it the case that we only see Gene scenes in the opener and final episodes of each season?  Or are they interspersed?  I can't remember.  Anyway, after this encounter with the taxi driver and having his info in the hospital database, I wonder if Gene will ever go back to the Cinnabon.  He may flee.  Or if not, become increasingly and intensely more paranoid and go down a similar path to what Chuck did. 

Who only see the Gene scenes in the season openers. 

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2 hours ago, FortKnox said:

Who only see the Gene scenes in the season openers. 

Thank you.  If they stay true to form, we will probably only be getting one or two more Gene scenes, which I'm sure will pack a punch one way or another. 

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18 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Thank you.  If they stay true to form, we will probably only be getting one or two more Gene scenes, which I'm sure will pack a punch one way or another. 

Maybe all or a large portion of the series finale will be a Gene show.  

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Other Gene speculation... did anyone else listen to the "official" podcast for this episode (s4e1)?  Did I mishear, or did Vince Gilligan say that we don't actually "know" whether the Gene scenes came before or after the BB timeframe?  I thought it was a given that it was after, based on Gene looking older and very nervous, but apparently that's not cannon?  Another case of "Gilligan maybe being a little overly clever"?  Or did I misunderstand?

Edited by SoMuchTV
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If we're seeing Gene soon after shipping out of Albuquerque, did he have that much hair loss when we saw him as Saul back then?  I don't think so, so I'm reading that as some time passing.  I know not just aging is in play with hair loss, stress is too, so I suppose it could be fairly early in his new identity.  No matter how much time has passed, he has totally lost his cool. 

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18 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Other Gene speculation... did anyone else listen to the "official" podcast for this episode (s4e1)?  Did I mishear, or did Vince Gilligan say that we don't actually "know" whether the Gene scenes came before or after the BB timeframe?  I thought it was a given that it was after, based on Gene looking older and very nervous, but apparently that's not cannon?  Another case of "Gilligan maybe being a little overly clever"?  Or did I misunderstand?

Yes.  Odenkirk was talking about whether Gene could come out of hiding now that Walter White was dead.  Gould said that he couldn't because "If you're Al Capone's banker and Capone dies, you are still on the hook."  Gilligan then said that the authorities might go even harder on Saul, because "They didn't get Capone. (i.e. Walt)".   But then he backtracked and asked if we really know that the Gene Scenes take place after Walt's death.  

It sounds like he is either trying to maintain a little mystery about it or they haven't decided where the Gene story is going and want to keep their options open.  

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2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It sounds like he is either trying to maintain a little mystery about it or they haven't decided where the Gene story is going and want to keep their options open. 

Since we are only speculating, I bet they had an endgame for Gene in mind when they started this, and the "when" doesn't really matter too much.  Or it does, and as you say, they don't want to give too much away.  If they only devote one segment per season to him, they have to be pretty tight in their storytelling.  I don't see triumph for him, he's lost his mojo and seems to be getting Chuck-like. 

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41 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Since we are only speculating, I bet they had an endgame for Gene in mind when they started this, and the "when" doesn't really matter too much.  Or it does, and as you say, they don't want to give too much away.  If they only devote one segment per season to him, they have to be pretty tight in their storytelling.  I don't see triumph for him, he's lost his mojo and seems to be getting Chuck-like. 

Good point about him becoming Chuck-like.   

The last episode was a lot like when Chuck hit his head and was taken to the hospital to be tested, poked and prodded.  Both, also were exposed to their worst fears.  For Chuck, it was electricity and for Gene, it was having his true identity exposed.  

It will be interesting to see what happens to Gene and when it takes place.  I tend to think it is around 2015 and Walt is long dead.  But, who knows, maybe Mr. Lambert will stop off in Omaha on the way back to ABQ for some cinnamon buns, and maybe some information from his old lawyer.  

I am trying to think if there is anything Saul could have done or told him to help carry out his revenge.  Maybe, Saul could have given him some legal specifics on how he could get the money to Walt Jr through Gretchen and Elliot.  Or maybe he had more recent phone numbers for Badger or Skinny Pete, so Walt could hire them to be his "hit men".  

Edited by Bryce Lynch
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1 hour ago, toodles said:

I think the opening was a Gene stress dream.  It seemed very dream like to me.

I thought the same thing.  Also, the fact that he asked to be taken to a mall which is actually in ABQ and also the air freshener in the cab, made me wonder if 

Spoiler

Saul is either unconscious or dead.

 

Edited by monakane
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37 minutes ago, monakane said:

I thought the same thing.  Also, the fact that he asked to be taken to a mall which is actually in ABQ and also the air freshener in the cab, made me wonder if 

  Hide contents

Saul is either unconscious or dead.

 

There's also a real life Cottonwood Mall in Omaha and it's where Gene works. Besides, there are malls in different states with the same name.

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49 minutes ago, FortKnox said:

There's also a real life Cottonwood Mall in Omaha and it's where Gene works. Besides, there are malls in different states with the same name.

Actually, the real life Cottonwood Mall, complete with its own Cinnabon, is in ABQ.  That is where they shoot the Gene Scenes.   I think they used the real name of the shooting location mall, as the name of the fictional mall in Omaha so they wouldn't need to avoid shooting the Cottonwood signs or edit them out.  

At any rate, in the BCS universe there IS a Cottonwood Mall in Omaha and Gene works there.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch
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13 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Actually, the real life Cottonwood Mall, complete with its own Cinnabon, is in ABQ.  That is where they shoot the Gene Scenes.   I think they used the real name of the shooting location mall, as the name of the fictional mall in Omaha so they wouldn't need to avoid shooting the Cottonwood signs or edit them out.  

At any rate, in the BCS universe there IS a Cottonwood Mall in Omaha and Gene works there.  

Yeah, ok. I got my locations mixed up. I know one state had the real one.

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I think the shady-seeming taxi driver and the ABQ keychain are red herrings.  I don't think if tabs were being kept on Gene that whoever it was would show their hand.  It seems like Gene's paranoia is going in overdrive.  And he doesn't have anybody to bounce things off of, he is isolated almost as much as Walt was in New Hampshire, but he's not handling it as well.  He may need something to jolt him out of it the way seeing the Charlie Rose interview jolted Walter.  Or he keeps going down the Chuck path to extreme phobia, etc. 

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2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think the shady-seeming taxi driver and the ABQ keychain are red herrings.  I don't think if tabs were being kept on Gene that whoever it was would show their hand.  It seems like Gene's paranoia is going in overdrive.  And he doesn't have anybody to bounce things off of, he is isolated almost as much as Walt was in New Hampshire, but he's not handling it as well.  He may need something to jolt him out of it the way seeing the Charlie Rose interview jolted Walter.  Or he keeps going down the Chuck path to extreme phobia, etc. 

If the cab driver was just a transplant from ABQ, and a red herring, it could be sort of a parallel to Chuck.  Chuck was incapacitated and made physically ill, by an irrational fear of electricity.  In the season 3 scene, Gene was made physically ill by his fear of being discovered, and in season 4 was terrified that the hospital clerk would discover his ID was bogus and then by the cab driver.

I agree that anyone following Gene would probably not have shown their hand by displaying the Isotopes air freshener or acting weird.  But, even if the cab driver is not from the police, cartel or otherwise has any grudge against Saul Goodman, it could be dangerous if he recognized him from the bus benches and TV ads and calls the DEA.  I am starting to wonder if the driver is thinking, "That guy looks really familiar.  I know I've seen him before, but I can't place who it is." and is maybe thrown off by the mustache and receding hairline.  

I wonder why the SS# went through, but the driver's license did not.  I suppose maybe Ed the Disappearer used a real SS# of a real person named Gene Takavic, but the fake driver's license he made for Saul in Granite State was not in the Nebraska DMV database.  

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7 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes.  Odenkirk was talking about whether Gene could come out of hiding now that Walter White was dead.  Gould said that he couldn't because "If you're Al Capone's banker and Capone dies, you are still on the hook."  Gilligan then said that the authorities might go even harder on Saul, because "They didn't get Capone. (i.e. Walt)".   But then he backtracked and asked if we really know that the Gene Scenes take place after Walt's death.  

It sounds like he is either trying to maintain a little mystery about it or they haven't decided where the Gene story is going and want to keep their options open.  

Ah yes that's the part I missed.  Not pre-BB vs post-BB, he was talking about pre-WWdeath vs post WWdeath.  I had forgotton what a long window of time there was between Saul disappearing and WW dying.  Thanks.

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38 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If the cab driver was just a transplant from ABQ, and a red herring, it could be sort of a parallel to Chuck.  Chuck was incapacitated and made physically ill, by an irrational fear of electricity.  In the season 3 scene, Gene was made physically ill by his fear of being discovered, and in season 4 was terrified that the hospital clerk would discover his ID was bogus and then by the cab driver.

I agree that anyone following Gene would probably not have shown their hand by displaying the Isotopes air freshener or acting weird.  But, even if the cab driver is not from the police, cartel or otherwise has any grudge against Saul Goodman, it could be dangerous if he recognized him from the bus benches and TV ads and calls the DEA.  I am starting to wonder if the driver is thinking, "That guy looks really familiar.  I know I've seen him before, but I can't place who it is." and is maybe thrown off by the mustache and receding hairline.  

I wonder why the SS# went through, but the driver's license did not.  I suppose maybe Ed the Disappearer used a real SS# of a real person named Gene Takavic, but the fake driver's license he made for Saul in Granite State was not in the Nebraska DMV database.  

If that's the case he's at risk anytime he's driving.  Any traffic stop could bust him.  Maybe he doesn't drive and just uses that if he has to for ID.  I question whether an ER admission clerk would be checking SS or driver's license numbers on the spot.  I would think they would just collect the info. 

Now that you mention it, the driver might have been trying to place that face.  I suppose it is remotely possible he was even once a client of Jimmy/Saul, in his public defender days or even when he opened his strip mall office.  Especially if this is after Walt's death hit the news, Saul's name and face might have come up in the news or on 'America's Most Wanted' type shows.  In real life people sometimes go undetected for 20 or 30 years, but it must be with zero peace of mind. 

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