S04.E02: Terms of Service

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Richard butts heads with Dinesh, whose new position goes to his head. Later, Richard discovers interesting data about PiperChat's users. Erlich makes a play to be involved in Jian-Yang's new app; Jared sets ground rules in his friendship with Richard; Gavin's paranoia over Jack's enthusiasm causes him to make a rash decision.

Promo:

[woodscommaelle]

This show makes Sunday nights not suck so bad.

'Gavin Smelson' made me laugh harder than it should have. I love that character.  The scene between him and Hoover was great.

Edited May 1, 2017 by woodscommaelle

[Dots And Stripes]

I've forgotten, does Hooli already have Richard's compression code from the Hooli box project? I guess they must otherwise that would be the real point of concern with Hooli acquiring Piper Chat. The whole thing didn't seem to quite add up, as I don't think having terms of service would have fixed the problem of young girls and then predators using the service. Requiring users to be 13 is usually something kids figure out how to circumvent easily.

I really loved this episode. Dinesh started the half hour as such a jerk that his immediate downfall was far more enjoyable than I would have thought. 

[woodscommaelle]

I was hoping this new Dinesh was just a dream sequence.

[Cthulhudrew]

44 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

The whole thing didn't seem to quite add up, as I don't think having terms of service would have fixed the problem of young girls and then predators using the service. Requiring users to be 13 is usually something kids figure out how to circumvent easily.

I think the point was that it would shield the employees of Piperchat from legal repercussions. Anyone who either didn't read and/or follow the TOS would have no case against the company.

[Dots And Stripes]

11 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I think the point was that it would shield the employees of Piperchat from legal repercussions. Anyone who either didn't read and/or follow the TOS would have no case against the company.

It sounded to me like the main concern was a fine imposed by the government, not liability to individual users. The main concern was the money but Ulrich and others seemed to also be suggesting that Dinesh's failure to have adequate terms of service was what attracted users from certain demos to the app. Richard flagged the problem based on the demos of people using the app, not the lack of legal jargon. Did Richard know Dinesh had lied to Jared when he spotted the problem? Maybe children would enthusiastically flock to an app that didn't force them lie about their year of birth, but to me it sounded thin.

[Traveller519]

Well, I did not see that coming! Agreed that Dinesh's behaviour off the bat had me wanting to pop that champagne with Guilfoyle!

I wonder if this means Gavin has access to the algorithm, or if they're leveraging the EndFrame one. Though the fact that they were able to bring back the focus group moderator made it all worthwhile. 

[RealReality]

I wonder why Big Head and his dad are using Skype instead of Piper Chat?

Otherwise, this was a good episode, the last scene made me literally laugh out loud.  "Carl, you said the new sign in page made you nervous..."

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I've forgotten, does Hooli already have Richard's compression code from the Hooli box project? I guess they must otherwise that would be the real point of concern with Hooli acquiring Piper Chat. The whole thing didn't seem to quite add up, as I don't think having terms of service would have fixed the problem of young girls and then predators using the service. Requiring users to be 13 is usually something kids figure out how to circumvent easily.

I really loved this episode. Dinesh started the half hour as such a jerk that his immediate downfall was far more enjoyable than I would have thought. 

 

Fixing the actual problem wasn't the issue, it was getting the legal coverage of having  TOS.

However, what I didn't understand is why they couldn't take it offline for an hour or so and bring it back up with everyone having to read and click through the TOS.  It shouldn't erase the historical user data, and it probably wouldn't make a dent in actual users, since, as Dinesh pointed out.....no one really reads that stuff.

I guess the government could still come at them for the past chats, but if the legal problem has already been resolved by putting in the TOS and maybe something where you enter your age, I couldn't see the incentive for the government to prosecute.  A simple explanation like "we're a growing company, and as soon as it came to our attention that we hadn't uploaded the TOS, we fixed it immediately"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clips:

Dinesh's pitch:

 

Go Fish:

Pants:

Bloomberg:

[Matt K]

Great episode.  While the first half wasn't as funny, the ending killed it.  Loved the return of the focus group and also the return of the "lawyer".  Actually I hope we see more of him as he's probably one of my favorite side characters.  

[qtpye]

Dinesh's douchebag hair was a nice touch and I appreciated Richard trying to cheer him up.  I also like the way that even though Dinesh was acting like a jerk, he was not wrong about Richard not being the greatest CEO.
 

Quote

 

However, what I didn't understand is why they couldn't take it offline for an hour or so and bring it back up with everyone having to read and click through the TOS.  It shouldn't erase the historical user data, and it probably wouldn't make a dent in actual users, since, as Dinesh pointed out.....no one really reads that stuff.

I guess the government could still come at them for the past chats, but if the legal problem has already been resolved by putting in the TOS and maybe something where you enter your age, I couldn't see the incentive for the government to prosecute.  A simple explanation like "we're a growing company, and as soon as it came to our attention that we hadn't uploaded the TOS, we fixed it immediately"

 

It's like the writers are really stretching for ways to make them fail, even though they have an amazing product.  The TOS seemed like not an insurmountable fix, but we had to get Dinesh in fetal position in the bath tub.

So, I guess Richard is not a good leader, but none of them are any better?  I guess Dinesh was the only probable option and of course they had to ratchet up his assholeness, to make him fail, so that we conclude Richard is the only one that can lead this rag tag group?  Also, what is Richard's new internet?  I like Richard (most of the time) but his inflexibility to pivot is off putting.  

Even though I like the cast, some things seem so obvious.  Like we know Gavin is going to go overboard to get an apology from Jack and that is going to lead to outrageous behavior.  Also, like how we knew Big Head totally misheard, causing Erlich to get into a bad deal for a stupid app.  

It was still funny, but starting to feel a little predictable.

[hincandenza]

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

It's like the writers are really stretching for ways to make them fail, even though they have an amazing product.  The TOS seemed like not an insurmountable fix, but we had to get Dinesh in fetal position in the bath tub.

So, I guess Richard is not a good leader, but none of them are any better?  I guess Dinesh was the only probable option and of course they had to ratchet up his assholeness, to make him fail, so that we conclude Richard is the only one that can lead this rag tag group?  Also, what is Richard's new internet?  I like Richard (most of the time) but his inflexibility to pivot is off putting.  

Even though I like the cast, some things seem so obvious.  Like we know Gavin is going to go overboard to get an apology from Jack and that is going to lead to outrageous behavior.  Also, like how we knew Big Head totally misheard, causing Erlich to get into a bad deal for a stupid app.  

It was still funny, but starting to feel a little predictable.

That was my take through much of season 3 (and I'm boycotting season 4 and simply reading the comments, harumph!).  Funny bits, amusing vignettes, but overall stuck in a 1980's sitcom mindset that simply can't imagine how to make success equally funny, or to gracefully handle characters changing.  Which on the surface is stupid: Gavin, or Ross for that matter, have had some of the funniest sequences in the show's run, so there's simply no reason we couldn't have our main cast become both financially successful and still doing amusingly dumb things in a new context.

[Dots And Stripes]

14 hours ago, RealReality said:

Fixing the actual problem wasn't the issue, it was getting the legal coverage of having  TOS.

However, what I didn't understand is why they couldn't take it offline for an hour or so and bring it back up with everyone having to read and click through the TOS.  It shouldn't erase the historical user data, and it probably wouldn't make a dent in actual users, since, as Dinesh pointed out.....no one really reads that stuff.

I guess the government could still come at them for the past chats, but if the legal problem has already been resolved by putting in the TOS and maybe something where you enter your age, I couldn't see the incentive for the government to prosecute.  A simple explanation like "we're a growing company, and as soon as it came to our attention that we hadn't uploaded the TOS, we fixed it immediately"

Except Richard didn't discover the lack of a TOS. He discovered the user age issue and was alarmed enough to get Jared involved. Even Gavin freaked seeking the panel of average users were all young girls and one creepy guy.

Presumably the lack of a TOS would have been easier for Richard to find and wouldn't have even required Big Head's login.

The more they talked about the problem, the less convinced I was the writers understood themselves how it all fit together. I don't buy that a lack of TOS would be a major selling point for young girls looking to chat with friend, and I felt the episode suggested that was what happened. It didn't do much to dim my opinion of the episode as a whole. I just hope they don't dwell on the same plot holes next episode.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Except Richard didn't discover the lack of a TOS. He discovered the user age issue and was alarmed enough to get Jared involved. Even Gavin freaked seeking the panel of average users were all young girls and one creepy guy.

Presumably the lack of a TOS would have been easier for Richard to find and wouldn't have even required Big Head's login.

The more they talked about the problem, the less convinced I was the writers understood themselves how it all fit together. I don't buy that a lack of TOS would be a major selling point for young girls looking to chat with friend, and I felt the episode suggested that was what happened. It didn't do much to dim my opinion of the episode as a whole. I just hope they don't dwell on the same plot holes next episode.

He discovered a bunch of kids using it which ostensibly shouldn't happen with a TOS or entering your age.  Actual 13 year olds would still enter their age as being older but you'd never know.  I think it was a red flag for sure, which would have been resolved by having a TOS because you could at least say you told users they were supposed to be over 13 to use the service.

I don't think anyone was saying that it would actually stop 13 year olds from using the service, just that legally they would be covered with age verification (if they had that.none of the user data  would show kids younger than 13) or if they had a TOS (in which case you could say that uswrs agreed not to use if they were 13 or younger)

[Pallas]

Beyond the legal liability, I think The Horror was supposed to be that PiperChat was a platform that tweener girls (and their grandfathers, and predators) prefer. It was as awesome as Justin Bieber.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Beyond the legal liability, I think The Horror was supposed to be that PiperChat was a platform that tweener girls (and their grandfathers, and predators) prefer. It was as awesome as Justin Bieber.

Wow, I did not realize that Silicon Valley hated pre teen girls so much...is it just because they think girls this age are uncool?

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

Wow, I did not realize that Silicon Valley hated pre teen girls so much...is it just because they think girls this age are uncool?

Nope, Silicon Valley likes anything that boosts the user base. It's just that lawmakers are *very* serious about COPPA, and running afoul of that will get a company into big trouble.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This being the final season I seriously thought our guys were being given a win finally with PiperChat. Killing that by episode 2 was kind of a let down. Dinesh

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 11:03 AM, qtpye said:

Dinesh's douchebag hair was a nice touch and I appreciated Richard trying to cheer him up.  I also like the way that even though Dinesh was acting like a jerk, he was not wrong about Richard not being the greatest CEO.

I agree, but his over the top d-bagness seemed a bit OOC to me.

Wasn't part of the deal of the split off of PiperChat that Richard still owns the algorithm and that he was licensing it to PiperChat to use? Wouldn't that mean that Gavin would have to pay Richard for its use?

Edited May 6, 2017 by Spaceman Spiff

[cyberfruit]

Jared was an unsung gem with his comments for this episode. I was dying at, "Wait, Richard, you were *whispers* inside us?" and in reference to Dinesh asking how Richard was able to get into PiperChat, "Well, Richard entered PiperChat without our consent, but"

[Duke2801]

Of course we knew that Jian Yang's pitch wasn't going to be about VR.  Because it's a sitcom.  Yet, the whole oculus/octopus confusion was still hilarious ( to me).  For people complaining that this show is too 80s sitcom-y, overly predictable, what-have-you... I take it you do NOT watch 98% of the sitcoms that are on network TV?  Because SV still blow most of them out of the water in terms of humor, smart dialogue, and likeable characters.   

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 5:32 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

This being the final season I seriously thought our guys were being given a win finally with PiperChat. Killing that by episode 2 was kind of a let down. Dinesh

I agree, but his over the top d-bagness seemed a bit OOC to me.

Wasn't part of the deal of the split off of PiperChat that Richard still owns the algorithm and that he was licensing it to PiperChat to use? Wouldn't that mean that Gavin would have to pay Richard for its use?

Where did you hear or read that? Not disputing you - just that I haven't seen anything that confirms this. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 9:00 AM, Duke2801 said:

Where did you hear or read that? Not disputing you - just that I haven't seen anything that confirms this. 

I guess you should dispute it. When I posted, in the back of my mind I thought I recalled hearing/reading during last years renewal announcement that it was the final year, but a search could not confirm that. I have stricken it from the record.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was not at all surprised by Dinesh's exponentially douchier behavior once he was made CEO of PiperChat. He has always wanted to be cool so once he got the opportunity to be on tv and have some power in the meetings, he went full on bro, complete with excessive hair gel. Loved that Guilfoyle was disappointed in how quickly Dinesh crashed and burned.

I agree that Dinesh was not lying when he said Richard wasn't a great leader, but really none of them are. When they formed Pied Piper, none of them had management experience or even supervisory experience. When left to their own devices, they just bickered until Erlich came in and yelled at them. They're good at their actual jobs programming, but that's a completely separate skill from being a CEO or being in any kind of position of power.

I totally loved the return of the focus group (and the focus group leader who says every single person's name while they're voting). Creepy Carl! I was waiting for Chris Hanson to pop in and ask Creepy Carl to have a seat.

Erlich's continued insistence that the correct term is "hards on" (not "hard ons") cracked me up. It was like when he was bitching about Radiohead and he just refused to back down about it.

Loved seeing the Pied Piper lawyer/car wash employee again. "Serenity now - insanity later!"

Gavin's guru is even lower than I thought. He's stealing coffee pods? Come on, dude.

[Camera One]

I did find the ending pretty hilarious.  Gavin is funnier when he isn't targeting Pied Piper.  I enjoyed the return of the sad lawyer and the focus group leader.