S08.E21: Battle Scars

[MostlyC]

The NCIS team must work with Hetty's former Vietnam War colleagues after a highly decorated Navy captain kidnaps a Veterans Affairs administrator who has been siphoning funds.

[123BP]

Spoiler

Glad they "wrapped up" the story about Granger, but found the episode boring. A lot of talking and not much action. No spark. Why even have the kidnapping? That went nowhere. And what's with trying to make some kind of conflict between Sam and Sterling? Seems forced. I think Jordana is one of their weakest writers (usually Bartels is good). And Whitmore is usually a good director. The story was weak IMO.

Edited April 24, 2017 by 123BP

[pennben]

Okay, that was fun.  I really hope they find a way to keep at least AJ, if not the others around going forward. To be honest, at this point, I'd give up Hetty for any and/or all of them. 

It's really stupid, however, that Sam and Callen have decided these guys are incompetent even when they know their rank and stature and that they were part of Hetty's crew.  It took me out of the episode when they were being so stupid.  Find another way for them to not want them around other than for them to believe them to be incompetent because, I can only surmise, they are old.  

Dammit, Kensi made me cry talking about wanting Granger to walk her down the aisle.  Godspeed Miguel Ferrer.  I want you to live on off-screen on this show, but if that can't be I hope you go out in a blaze of glory (or peace) off-screen. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by pennben

[ymeagain]

2 hours ago, 123BP said:

found the episode boring

Have to agree. Nothing seemed to click. What was the point of the kidnapping again? To show the vet was angry or having mental problems?

 

6 minutes ago, pennben said:

It's really stupid, however, that Sam and Callen have decided these guys are incompetent even when they know their rank and stature and that they were part of Hetty's crew.

Also agree. If making the regulars stupid is how you make guest stars look smart, that's really crappy writing. (And these guys are so smart, but it's taken them more than 40 years to figure out how to donate the ransom? Seriously?) The whole episode felt flat. None of the scenes worked. And when did Sam become the resident "shrink" for the team? If this is to show how much he changes in the finale, they're really laying it on thick--too thick. As much as I like AJ, I found the pair--AJ and Sterling--just annoying. If they keep AJ, I hope they dump Sterling. Sorry, loved Granger but couldn't see Kensi ever asking him to walk her down the aisle (he never came across as the "fatherly" type).

[threebluestars]

I want Chegwidden on this show.

[UncleChuck]

I got a strange mixed message from their interactions with the VA hospital.  One one hand, 50 screaming vets in the hallway harassing that poor administrator is a scene I have NEVER witnessed at any VA hospital or clinic.  Yes, scheduling can sometimes be a bitch, but for me, the VA has ALWAYS responded to any real emergency.  The mixed message, though, was that was the very same hospital and VA staff that brought Kensi back from her coma, her injuries, and provided her rehab. 

So, are we to remember that the VA is staffed by crooks and incompetents, or dedicated staff (docs and nurses and therapists) who can provide truly great care to patients such as Kensi?

[UncleChuck]

54 minutes ago, pennben said:

It's really stupid, however, that Sam and Callen have decided these guys are incompetent even when they know their rank and stature and that they were part of Hetty's crew.

Especially out of character when we remember how Sam has honored the BOND between himself and all other Navy Seals.  If the bond between Seals is so strong, why doesn't he respond more positively to Admiral Chegwidden?  Wake up Sam--that old geezer you are smirking at is a brother Seal--or doesn't it count for elderly Seals?

[pennben]

19 minutes ago, UncleChuck said:

I got a strange mixed message from their interactions with the VA hospital.  One one hand, 50 screaming vets in the hallway harassing that poor administrator is a scene I have NEVER witnessed at any VA hospital or clinic.  Yes, scheduling can sometimes be a bitch, but for me, the VA has ALWAYS responded to any real emergency.  The mixed message, though, was that was the very same hospital and VA staff that brought Kensi back from her coma, her injuries, and provided her rehab. 

So, are we to remember that the VA is staffed by crooks and incompetents, or dedicated staff (docs and nurses and therapists) who can provide truly great care to patients such as Kensi?

I think they were clunkily trying to put a visual image to the problems that Vets have generally in getting treatment when they come home.  I do think we are to believe that the folks on the ground at the hospital are more committed than the administrators.  The message was that appointees at a certain level are less concerned about the Vets and more concerned about other things.  I'm not sure tying the guy to bilking the system, as opposed to being simply incompetent to be in charge of such a large operation is the best route, but I do think they meant well. It is an issue that is far to complicated to really dig into beyond superficial treatment.

Edited April 24, 2017 by pennben

[ymeagain]

19 minutes ago, UncleChuck said:

Especially out of character when we remember how Sam has honored the BOND between himself and all other Navy Seals.  If the bond between Seals is so strong, why doesn't he respond more positively to Admiral Chegwidden?  Wake up Sam--that old geezer you are smirking at is a brother Seal--or doesn't it count for elderly Seals?

Good point. Remember Sam's attitude toward the vets in Old Tricks? He was very respectful (as always) and they weren't even SEALS (same as in Kulinda). 

I found I missed Anna. She always has spark. Who knew? lol

[roamyn]

Interestingly, I watched a documentary earlier in the day abt Dutch Schultz, who James Remar (Sterling) played with such gusto in The Cotton Club.

I agree with pennbenn abt giving up Hetty for both AJ & Sterling.  The characters were having fun besting Sam & Callen.  Their pairing seemed natural, as well.

Edited April 24, 2017 by roamyn

[MissLucas]

I did not mind all the testosterone-poisoning which I took to be there for comic relief (even if admittedly OOC). The episode had plenty of great character beats for me to work otherwise: Deeks' reluctance to go to the hospital and Kensi figuring out what was going on, the scene with the veil *sniff*, Eric struggling with his first kill - plus the show remembering that Eric and Admiral Chegwidden had been bonding over on-line gaming. If Chegwidden stays (which I actually hope for) I hope we get to see more of that.

That said: yeah, all those highly skilled folks not being able to figure out what to do with the ransom gold for almost 40 years was ridiculous.

[123BP]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The episode had plenty of great character beats for me

If every 43 minute show had less than 10 minutes of "character beats," I'm afraid I'd have to give up watching that show (and this episode was less than 41 minutes). That entire scene in the VA hospital was so absurd--and this show isn't supposed to deal with absurdities in that way--and the subsequent "talk" was phony. And the kidnapping? Was that a political statement because it had no relevance to the rest of the story. If so, it was a pathetic attempt. Also, why wouldn't Hetty have seen the photo of Langston when Eric showed it to Callen and Sam? She was too busy? But, then a little later, she called AJ and told him that they had a problem? (How could she possibly know they were looking for the same man? Well, if she'd looked at the photo, she'd have known.) And exactly how did AJ save the NCIS team? By hitting Joelle? Because we now know that she has another family, so her threat to kill Hetty was never more than a threat. And the whole bit about who was who in the Stones was idiotic. The fact that, knowing that Langston was in charge of the gold and yet these guys still couldn't figure out why anyone would toss his house, shows they're not too bright. Even the small things didn't make sense: Sam LOVES the fact that the entire world is connected (he's spoken about the "shared consciousness"), but he won't use WAZE, "real people working together"? Granted, AJ is a former JAG, but he wouldn't have had much contact with judges outside of the military, but he was able to get the warrant that quickly? The scenes in the pawn shop were lame (especially the one with Kensi and Deeks--Granger walking her down the aisle? OMG, no way!). And why did Deeks call himself her boyfriend instead of fiance? Oh, right, the guy hasn't officially proposed yet. And when the writers have to make Callen and Sam (or any of the other characters) look stupid in order to make other characters look smart, the writing sucks. The "cookies for dinner" talk was also dumb; Kensi made a quiche in an earlier episode--and she actually left it for Deeks for dinner (or don't the writers pay attention to earlier episodes?). And if the admirals hadn't shown up and distracted Callen and Sam, they could have made it into the house without cover. Thanks, guys. And these "smart" folks--including Hetty--couldn't figure out how to donate their gold in over 40 years? With all their contacts? Seriously? They should have asked Callen's dad. The entire episode was just annoying because it was so badly written. I know Jordana is an executive producer, but she absolutely stinks as a writer. I wish she would be limited to writing only one episode per season.

8 hours ago, forumfish said:

I thought it was very disrespectful of Sam and Callen to treat the retired admirals the way they did.

How about the retired admirals showing Callen and Sam some respect? Granted, Sam could have been more pleasant, but Callen didn't show them any disrespect--unless asking them questions because that's his job--is being disrespectful. They know they work for NCIS; you'd think they might want to work together to find Langston. But, no, not in this stupid episode.

Edited April 24, 2017 by 123BP

[123BP]

8 hours ago, forumfish said:

I'd watch the heck out of "The AJ and Sterling Show."

As long as it's not NCIS: LA, I'd watch it, too. Otherwise, NCIS: LA already has a good cast, and I wouldn't want them to take a backseat to these two (as much as I like their characters).

[threebluestars]

I thought the reason Sam and Callen were so annoyed is that technically these were civilians interfering in an official investigation, one in which they knew the accused, and they were involving themselves when they really shouldn't be. The admirals weren't there in any official capacity. It'd be like any witness or friend of the accused suddenly showing up with guns to help - nevermind that they have military experience. And with all the crap Hetty has pulled, I wouldn't be surprised if Sam and Callen would be wary of the fact she tipped these guys off about what was happening.

[anna0852]

1 hour ago, arieswriting said:

I thought the reason Sam and Callen were so annoyed is that technically these were civilians interfering in an official investigation, one in which they knew the accused, and they were involving themselves when they really shouldn't be. The admirals weren't there in any official capacity. It'd be like any witness or friend of the accused suddenly showing up with guns to help - nevermind that they have military experience. And with all the crap Hetty has pulled, I wouldn't be surprised if Sam and Callen would be wary of the fact she tipped these guys off about what was happening.

You beat me to saying it!

Yes, Sam was a little less respectful than we are used to seeing but at the same time Hetty was pulling her 'puppet master' crap again and mixing civilians into the investigation. Why on earth couldn't she have said 'these guys used to work with him and have valuable insights. I'm bring them in, please cooperate.'

I also think the push-back was due to having it acknowledged to them that Granger is gone and most likely dead by now. Emotions were running pretty high and on any other day, the admirals presence wouldn't have caused as much friction. Unfortunately it ran a little too close to 'your grumpy old cuss is gone, here are his replacements, deal.' I'm not saying that was actually said to the guys or that they even consciously thought it but emotionally I'm guessing the feeling was pretty close.

I did like how the FBI agent so cheerfully refused to budge but at the same time was willing to cooperate with NCIS.

I teared up along with Kensi about Granger walking her down the aisle. And I continue to be impressed with how her recovery storyline is being handled, acknowledging that while Deeks wasn't physically injured this whole thing did a have a huge impact on him. I'm so happy that not only did this show refuse to draw out the will-they, won't-they but that the resulting relationship is clearly between adults who may have their silly moments but don't act like over-emotional and uncommunicative teenagers. I out-grew WB/CW teen dramas a long time ago!

[Lebanna]

12 hours ago, forumfish said:

I'd watch the heck out of "The AJ and Sterling Show." Chegwidden was always my favorite character (and JMJ, my favorite actor) on JAG.

I thought it was very disrespectful of Sam and Callen to treat the retired admirals the way they did. Age-wise, the actors aren't old enough to be considered "geezers" -- I don't know how old Sam and Callen's characters are supposed to be, though.

It's funny since, as they are in their late 40s, in real life Callen and Sam would both be retired from the kind of energetic undercover job they do on this show.

[misstwpherecool]

Another improvised episode used to manufacture a story to justify a shootout and some stunts. Did Kensi and Deeks actually have a search warrant for the mansion or did they just make up the story to manipulate the suspects? If no warrant they enter a house and shootout ensues wouldn't that be lawyer fodder.

They need to show more epis with the agents getting torn apart in court and/or appeals along with shooting review boards etc.

This cartoon keeps dragging along.

[123BP]

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Why on earth couldn't she have said 'these guys used to work with him and have valuable insights. I'm bring them in, please cooperate.'

I did like how the FBI agent so cheerfully refused to budge but at the same time was willing to cooperate with NCIS.

I teared up along with Kensi about Granger walking her down the aisle. I'm so happy that not only did this show refuse to draw out the will-they, won't-they the resulting relationship is clearly between adults who may have their silly moments but don't act like over-emotional and uncommunicative teenagers

The entire introduction of AJ could have waited until next season; he's not essential to this seaso at all.

Agent Morris was much more annoying than Anna ever could be. I much preferred Secret Service Agent Deschamps. She was much more realistic; Morris acted like she just graduated from acting class.

The whole recovery is getting tired. Get engaged, get married, and move on. The idea of Granger walking Kensi down the aisle? Emotionally dishonest and uncharacteristic for him. As for not being uncommunicative teenagers, true, but Deeks has been pretty uncommunicative as an adult.

I hate to see them waste an episode like they did with this one. At least Jordana didn't write part 2, so there's hope.

[anna0852]

1 hour ago, misstwpherecool said:

This cartoon keeps dragging along.

Then why are you watching? I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic, I'm confused. You clearly don't like it. So why watch, then post about it with a bunch of people that *do* like it?

 

33 minutes ago, 123BP said:

The whole recovery is getting tired. Get engaged, get married, and move on. The idea of Granger walking Kensi down the aisle? Emotionally dishonest and uncharacteristic for him. As for not being uncommunicative teenagers, true, but Deeks has been pretty uncommunicative as an adult.

I hate to see them waste an episode like they did with this one. At least Jordana didn't write part 2, so there's hope.

Given that Granger served with her dad and seems to have a bit of a soft spot (as much as is capable of at least) for Kensi, I don't think it's that far fetched.

I give kudos to the show for being as realistic as they can about Kensi recovering from that kind of injury. My uncle sustained injuries similar in years ago in a motor vehicle crash. It was nearly a year before he was anywhere close to what he had been and it still crops up from time to time. I'd be more annoyed if the whole thing was glossed over.

And both Kensi and Deeks have had their uncommunicative moments seeing how they're, you know, human.  But they recognize, acknowledge and move on.  

[ymeagain]

58 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

Given that Granger served with her dad and seems to have a bit of a soft spot (as much as is capable of at least) for Kensi, I don't think it's that far fetched.

Maybe not but still thought it was done more to pull emotional strings (after all, Kensi didn't seem any more concerned about his condition than anyone else-Callen was the one who usually asked about him).

Can't stand Agent Morris. People talk about Anna having an annoying voice. ?

As for the recovery, it's a TV show; I don't expect them to be "realistic" especially considering her remarkable progress from comatose patient to dancer. Personally, I'd like to have seen more of Nikita; bringing him in this year seems like a wasted opportunity. And I agree about AJ; his intro could have waited until season 9. He's basically done nothing important in any of the episodes. I sure hope the last 3 episodes are better quality writing.

Edited April 24, 2017 by ymeagain

[HawaiiTVGuy]

17 hours ago, pennben said:

Okay, that was fun.  I really hope they find a way to keep at least AJ, if not the others around going forward. To be honest, at this point, I'd give up Hetty for any and/or all of them. 

It's really stupid, however, that Sam and Callen have decided these guys are incompetent even when they know their rank and stature and that they were part of Hetty's crew.  It took me out of the episode when they were being so stupid.  Find another way for them to not want them around other than for them to believe them to be incompetent because, I can only surmise, they are old.  

Dammit, Kensi made me cry talking about wanting Granger to walk her down the aisle.  Godspeed Miguel Ferrer.  I want you to live on off-screen on this show, but if that can't be I hope you go out in a blaze of glory (or peace) off-screen. 

THEY ALWAYS DO THAT!  It annoys the hell out of me.  Every other person in the world is incompetent compared to them, except for Sam's SEAL friends of course.  I mean seriously, Chegwidden just saved your collective asses and you are going to be all defensive about them being part of the investigation?

So did I miss something?  Like did they know the pawn shop owner had re-kidnapped Larson?  Or did they just happen to stumble upon him in the house with the search warrant?  And yes I believe there was a search warrant for the house, because they had the video evidence that Larson had sold something worth 50K to the pawn shop and it didn't turn up in the pawn shop, so next logical place (especially after the pawn shop owner lying about the whole transaction) to search the house.

Edited April 24, 2017 by HawaiiTVGuy

[MissLucas]

They had a search warrant courtesy of Admiral Chegwidden. Finding Larson was just a bonus. Of course nobody's as competent or tough as a SEAL - several seasons of H50 have hardened me to that trope.

[anna0852]

I really wish they'd cross with 5-0 again. The two casts meshed really well.

[123BP]

42 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Of course nobody's as competent or tough as a SEAL

Not true. The Delta unit guys saved Sam and Callen in Black Budget--and those guys call SEALS lifeguards. lol

 

51 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I mean seriously, Chegwidden just saved your collective asses and you are going to be all defensive about them being part of the investigation?

Sorry, but when did AJ save their collective asses? Not this episode (he and Sterling pretty much got in the way). As for them being competent, why couldn't they figure out why Larson's house was overturned--when they knew he was in charge of $40 million in gold? Not so bright (including Hetty although she found the cubby hole).

 

4 hours ago, Lebanna said:

It's funny since, as they are in their late 40s, in real life Callen and Sam would both be retired from the kind of energetic undercover job they do on this show.

NCIS agents probably work until they can't pass their physical fitness tests or retire (maybe 20-30 years on the job like police officers). As for ages, LL is 50 (and probably the fittest), Callen is 46, and Deeks is 40.

The thing that bothers me is here we are getting down to the end of the season and they choose NOW to introduce new characters? Who in their right mind does that? The focus should be on the team members--they have plenty going on--and not Hetty's old pals who aren't even NCIS.

[Jaybird]

They introduced Deeks at the end of season 2. The advantage of introducing a character late in the season is that they have the entire hiatus to adjust how the new character fits in with the existing cast, figure out the character's voice, maybe assess fan reaction before the next season's arcs are all planned out and half the eps are in the can.

[ymeagain]

5 minutes ago, Jaybird said:

They introduced Deeks at the end of season 2.

No, we met Deeks in two episodes in Season 1 (Hand-to-Hand and Fame), and we've already met AJ this season (in fact, many viewers don't need an introduction to him since he's from the original JAG). Having a story focus on a group of new characters at the end is dumb.

Edited April 24, 2017 by ymeagain

[ymeagain]

8 hours ago, arieswriting said:

And with all the crap Hetty has pulled, I wouldn't be surprised if Sam and Callen would be wary of the fact she tipped these guys off about what was happening.

I'm getting tired of all of Hetty's little secrets and the crap that goes along with it. She treats her agents sometimes with complete disrespect, but it's all about the writing (in 767, she was great at the end). I wish the writers could agree on the characters and their personalities. The way they write the characters so different from week to week, the characters are starting to seem schizophrenic and very inconsistent. That's one thing about NCIS and NCISNOLA: the characters are consistent.

[anna0852]

That's so weird how perceptions vary. I gave up on NCIS because I didn't like how what I felt was inconsistent characterizations. I've always thought this show did much better.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

2 hours ago, 123BP said:

 

Sorry, but when did AJ save their collective asses? Not this episode (he and Sterling pretty much got in the way). As for them being competent, why couldn't they figure out why Larson's house was overturned--when they knew he was in charge of $40 million in gold? Not so bright (including Hetty although she found the cubby hole).

 

 

AJ saved the unit, or at least Hetty in the big CIA molehunt of 2017.  But let's all agree, Hetty's communication skills with her subordinates sucks balls.  Of course the whole quasi Mexican Standoff distracted any of them from actually searching Larson's house, causing Hetty to accidentally find the cubby, which of course was a pointless find it turns out because she never tells any of her team anything.  

[secnarf]

21 minutes ago, ymeagain said:

I'm getting tired of all of Hetty's little secrets and the crap that goes along with it. She treats her agents sometimes with complete disrespect, but it's all about the writing (in 767, she was great at the end). I wish the writers could agree on the characters and their personalities. The way they write the characters so different from week to week, the characters are starting to seem schizophrenic and very inconsistent. That's one thing about NCIS and NCISNOLA: the characters are consistent.

None of these characters are schizophrenic.

[ymeagain]

10 minutes ago, secnarf said:

None of these characters are schizophrenic.

I didn't say they were schizophrenic; I said they seem schizophrenic because they behave differently from week to week, episode to episode depending on the writer. So, maybe it's the writers who are schizophrenic. XD

18 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

AJ saved the unit, or at least Hetty in the big CIA molehunt of 2017.  But let's all agree, Hetty's communication skills with her subordinates sucks balls.  Of course the whole quasi Mexican Standoff distracted any of them from actually searching Larson's house, causing Hetty to accidentally find the cubby, which of course was a pointless find it turns out because she never tells any of her team anything.

That mole story was so lame. Now that we know more about Joelle, it's doubtful she was ever going to do anything to Hetty; she was probably just going to escape (she is younger, faster, and more athletic). As for Hetty's communication skills, I blame the writers (she was terrific in 767 and awful this time, and the only difference is the writing). As for the admirals not searching Langston's house, it just proved they're a little shy of a full deck since they knew he was in charge of keeping $40 million in gold secure--and they couldn't put 2 and 2 together? They shouldn't be working cases in the field.

[ymeagain]

36 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I've always thought this show did much better.

This show used to be very good; it's only the past few seasons that they've fallen down in their execution (BTW, I think Gibbs is one of the most consistent characters on TV). I don't know why they seem to get all messed up, but I wish they would keep a bio on characters so they remember important things the characters have said or that are part of their lives (the writers seem to have problems remembering some simple things about their creations). It's frustrating.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

N

12 minutes ago, ymeagain said:

. As for the admirals not searching Langston's house, it just proved they're a little shy of a full deck since they knew he was in charge of keeping $40 million in gold secure--and they couldn't put 2 and 2 together? They shouldn't be working cases in the field.

My impression was they probably knew what was going on, but considering they (including Hetty) didn't bother cluing the rest of NCIS in on the 40 million dollar stash made me think they chose not to tell NCIS rather than they didn't know what was up.  They probably thought that if Hetty trust NCIS to know the information, she could tell them.

[MostlyC]

Previously.TV's site rule is to Be Civil to your fellow posters.

Posts have been removed. If you disagree, state your disagreement respectfully and move on.

[RobertDeSneero]

On 4/23/2017 at 11:09 PM, UncleChuck said:

I got a strange mixed message from their interactions with the VA hospital.  One one hand, 50 screaming vets in the hallway harassing that poor administrator is a scene I have NEVER witnessed at any VA hospital or clinic.  Yes, scheduling can sometimes be a bitch, but for me, the VA has ALWAYS responded to any real emergency.  The mixed message, though, was that was the very same hospital and VA staff that brought Kensi back from her coma, her injuries, and provided her rehab. 

So, are we to remember that the VA is staffed by crooks and incompetents, or dedicated staff (docs and nurses and therapists) who can provide truly great care to patients such as Kensi?

We are probably supposed to think this particular VA administrator is a bad apple whose corruption does not spread to those under his supervision and that the scene in the hospital was due to the poor job he was doing. 

This feels like a episode which might have originally been written with Granger in mind,  but they had to substitute the black guy because of real-world reasons.

[MissLucas]

I also took the chaos in the hospital as a direct result of douche administrator's meddling. I wonder if Chegwidden was introduced to become a regular - I wouldn't mind. But I don't think Admiral Bridges is supposed to hang around. James Remar is pretty busy playing shady or outright bad guys (I was surprised to see him as one of the good guys for a change).

[betsyboo]

On 4/23/2017 at 11:16 PM, pennben said:

Dammit, Kensi made me cry talking about wanting Granger to walk her down the aisle.  Godspeed Miguel Ferrer.  I want you to live on off-screen on this show, but if that can't be I hope you go out in a blaze of glory (or peace) off-screen. 

Seconded.

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

I also took the chaos in the hospital as a direct result of douche administrator's meddling. I wonder if Chegwidden was introduced to become a regular - I wouldn't mind. But I don't think Admiral Bridges is supposed to hang around. James Remar is pretty busy playing shady or outright bad guys (I was surprised to see him as one of the good guys for a change).

Yes, James Remar is very much a current HITG It-Guy.

I heart AJ.

[Jaybird]

15 hours ago, ymeagain said:

No, we met Deeks in two episodes in Season 1 (Hand-to-Hand and Fame), and we've already met AJ this season (in fact, many viewers don't need an introduction to him since he's from the original JAG). Having a story focus on a group of new characters at the end is dumb.

My bad, I meant to say introduced at the end of season 1 and joined the show full time in season 2. I stand by everything else in my original post.

[123BP]

On April 25, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Jaybird said:

I stand by everything else in my original post.

I think it can work both ways, but I think there was no need to bring in AJ and Hetty's old gang at this point. Remember, Hetty and Dom were introduced in episode 1 of season 1--and even though we knew all the other regulars, nothing was lost by introducing them cold turkey. It gave them the chance to develop their characters by interacting with their fellow characters--something that would be more beneficial to an actor, I would think, than trying to develop a character who's part of an ensemble in isolation.

Edited April 27, 2017 by 123BP

[JessDVD]

Well, that fell flat. I couldn't decide who was the most annoying between Callen, Sam, AJ, and the other guy, and settled on Hetty. Would it really kill her to clue in the people who are HER TEAM on things?! I don't really find any joy in watching 4 people be sanctimonious to each other when it could have been settled with a simple request from Hetty at the front end. Without it, yes, AJ and other guy are not nobody, but they also are civilians who are being obnoxious. Working for Hetty would really be annoying, because I would constantly be feeling like an idiot. Like ending up in a stand-off with people that Hetty knew would be there.

Positives: AJ in every other bit, Kensi and Deeks, and good use of Nell and Eric.

[123BP]

1 hour ago, JessDVD said:

Well, that fell flat. I couldn't decide who was the most annoying between Callen, Sam, AJ, and the other guy, and settled on Hetty. Would it really kill her to clue in the people who are HER TEAM on things?! I don't really find any joy in watching 4 people be sanctimonious to each other when it could have been settled with a simple request from Hetty at the front end. 

I agree with you about Hetty in this episode, but, of course, it's the fault of the writers. For some reason this season they've been unable to maintain consistency in the characters--and not just Hetty's. The whole idea that she wouldn't trust Callen and Sam with that information is just ridiculous. In past episodes, she hasn't told them things to protect them, but they weren't at risk in this instance--but according to the previews, they will be at risk this week, and it will be due partly to Hetty keeping secrets. Maybe they're going to retire Hetty and so want her to look dotty? IDK ?

[ymeagain]

11 hours ago, 123BP said:

It gave them the chance to develop their characters by interacting with their fellow characters--something that would be more beneficial to an actor, I would think, than trying to develop a character who's part of an ensemble in isolation.

I agree with this. If I'm part of an ensemble, I want to develop my character with the other characters present not isolated and alone.

8 hours ago, JessDVD said:

I couldn't decide who was the most annoying between Callen, Sam, AJ, and the other guy, and settled on Hetty.

I never find Callen or Sam annoying.

[JessDVD]

I've always fell on the side of finding Hetty to be master manipulator behind the scenes and I would find that an oppressive work environment, but I know not everyone sees it the same way.

I've rarely found Callen and Sam annoying but I did in this one in spite of falling on their side as far as, they were told by Hetty to investigate this, and they keep running into these guys who are technically civilians, getting in their way, and then finding out that Hetty knew they were coming (and knowing Hetty, tipped them off as well) and neglected to inform them and I don't know, expects them to put up with it or something. But I agree with the post above about how Callen and Sam were treating them as incompetent.

[123BP]

3 hours ago, JessDVD said:

But I agree with the post above about how Callen and Sam were treating them as incompetent.

I must have missed something because I don't remember Callen and Sam treating AJ and Sterling as incompetent. They were annoyed, yes. Not only were the guys getting in their way, but as civilians (even former military), Callen and Sam might have felt an added responsibility to keep them from getting hurt or killed--an extra burden.

[JessDVD]

I can't remember exact and I'll contend that 1) it's debatable and 2) I felt Hetty/Chegwiddon/Sterling were way more out of line than Sam & Callen were, but there were a couple moments where I felt like S&C were talking down to the older guys, perhaps more so than just "Why do you people keep getting in our way". I did find the older guys' glee in one-uping S&C to decrease my sympathy though. As I said, I would have (at least wanted to, who knows if I actually would have) gone to Hetty 7 or 8 years ago and said, I can't work on your team unless you act as though you trust us and stop manipulating things behind the scene. But, you know, entertaining TV or something like that. That, like the procedural writers' obsession with agents going rogue and this time it's personal!, is something I have to ignore/handwave in the interest of still enjoying these shows.

[123BP]

4 hours ago, JessDVD said:

I have to ignore/handwave in the interest of still enjoying these shows.

I love that expression "handwave"! lol

[RobertDeSneero]

On 4/27/2017 at 8:28 AM, JessDVD said:

I've always fell on the side of finding Hetty to be master manipulator behind the scenes and I would find that an oppressive work environment, but I know not everyone sees it the same way.

I like master manipulator characters.  I want to be like Hetty.

[ymeagain]

1 hour ago, RobertDeSneero said:

I like master manipulator characters.  I want to be like Hetty.

I don't mind master manipulators, but there needs to be a reason for the manipulation. Too often lately Hetty's manipulations are purposeless--and they just creates more problems.

Edited April 28, 2017 by ymeagain

[RobertDeSneero]

Hetty's actions make sense to me in this episode.  She is someone who practices compartmentalization in her operations, giving her operatives information on a need-to-know basis.  In this case, she delegated a matter outside of NCIS jurisdiction to two retired admirals, checking up on a colleague who had been acting strangely.  It coincidentally intersected with an NCIS investigation of the kidnapping of a VA administrator.  If anything, Hetty should be commended for not abusing her position and using NCIS resources to deal with a personal matter.

[ymeagain]

3 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

If anything, Hetty should be commended for not abusing her position and using NCIS resources to deal with a personal matter.

I see what you mean about the coincidence, but I don't agree that she should be commended  because investigating what happened at the VA could easily have been done by NCIS; the fact that she tried to keep it secret and a "personal matter" is, to me, the problem. As Callen told Garrison in Old Tricks when he was making decisions about Paley, "That's not your decision to make." Too often, lately, Hetty has kept information from her agents when it's not necessary. IMO that's one way Gibbs is a better "supervisor" than Hetty; he seems to have more trust in the professionalism of his agents. She did the same thing in Exchange Rate; she could have easily gotten Anna killed because she had her working alone, and she apologized for it (but she hasn't seemed to learn from it). Hetty takes too many unnecessary chances with her agents' lives. Their job is dangerous enough as it is; they don't need a supervisor who keeps secrets.

3 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said: