Farscape - General Discussion

[ganesh]

I actually go all in until Chiana was introduced too. Prior to that, I thought it was interesting and different, but it didn't do much for me. 

 

iirc, if I remember in that episode, Rygel had his contest of wills with Durka too which I really liked. 

 

The show needs to find a new generation of fans if it's going to get to that Star Trek level, and I think it can. 

[Philbert]

Is it on any of the streaming sites?

I believe the at least the first season is also on Hulu.com

The very first episode that I saw was 1.06 "Thank God It's Friday...Again" as part of a 6 block of episodes that Sci-Fi Channel (yeah before they lame name chance)used to run with their new shows. It wasn't until I saw 1.08 "PK Tech Girl" that I got hooked on the show. It remains on my top ten episode list even 15 year later.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Philbert

[thuganomics85]

Hello, everyone!  I started watching this show the past few weeks, and wanted to avoid accidentally spoiling myself, so I've I just started checking this thread out.  Decided to give it a go, since Netflix at all four seasons, and was thankfully able to grab The Peacekeeper Wars on Amazon (and, went ahead and got the show DVDs, as well.)

 

In short, I thought this show was awesome.  Very awesome.  Probably one of, if not my favorite sci-fi show of all time.  Usually, nothing can beat Star Trek for me, but this might have pulled if off (although Deep Space Nine might still hold strong.)  I just found almost every character on this show compelling, interesting, and fascinating to watch.  With a few exceptions, the stories usually went in directions I didn't expect, and I liked how the show could easily go from wacky and hilarious in one episode, to dead serious the next.  Each episode was a treat, because I never knew what to expect from the next episode.  But, yeah, this show is good.  So good, that I think it's influencing how I view other sci-fi shows I'm currently watching (I wonder if I would have been as harsh as I am on Falling Skies this season, if this wasn't always on my mind.)

 

For me, I actually was enjoying it enough early on, but I did think the things started picking up when Chiana came aboard, and then "Nerve" and the introduction of Scorpius, was what when I already decided that this show was going to be one of my favorites.  Not just because both of those characters brought new things to the table, but the rest of the characters started changing for the better, and sometimes going in different directions then expected.  But, my favorite was easily Aeryn Sun.  I loved her in her first scene, and she only got better and more interesting, as the show progressed.

 

The only complaint I kind of have was, after Chiana, I did think any future crew member never became as awesome as the original gang.  Only exception, and it might be unpopular, was Sikozu, who I actually liked because her self-serving attitude brought in some interesting scenes, and her attitude amused me (she reminded me of one of those people who is very book smart, but has horrible social skills, and it always rubbing people the wrong way.)  So, I liked her, although I was disappointed over what they did with her in The Peacekeeper Wars.  But I found Stark too over-the-top, Jool too obnoxious, and I really got tired of "Granny's" Schick. Nothing against any of the actors, and they all still had some good moments, but nothing could beat the Crichton/Aeryn/D'Argo/Zhaan/Chiana/Rygel team, for me.

 

Also, Scorpius was such a great antagonist, that it made his turn into an anti-hero a bit disappointing (plus, it felt like it tread similar ground with what they did with Crais), and neither Grayza or Emperor Staleek, could match him in the big baddie department.

 

But, those are just minor complaints.  I'm really glad I finally got to see it, and it more then lived up to my expectations.

[ganesh]

Scorpius shouldn't have been made a regular in S4. That's really the only flaw in the series. 

 

For standalone, Look at the Princess was pretty ambitious because they pulled a trilogy in the middle of the second season.

 

I did come around to the Emperor though when *idiot* Crighton told him that their little flower snacks grew in his grandmother's backyard on Earth. The calculating look the Emperor gave was like "checkmate motherfucker."

 

One thing I did like was that by the time We're So Screwed rolled around, everything was so ramped the fuck up; the Moya gang was literally the scourge of god by that point *and then they made nuclear weapon.* Waltzed into the heart of the Scarran Empire and told everyone to fuck off. The whole plan to incite the riot was just brilliant television with one of the best lines ever: They're trying to override our override of the override!

 

The monologue Claudia Black belts out in Prayer is one of the best tv monologues of all time. 

 

I've said it a bunch of times, this is the only show that I used to *run* home for. It was on at 5 pm on the west coast for the first 2 seasons. And I would not do anything on Friday night until I watched Farscape. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by ganesh

[RadiantAerynSun]

I really need to finish rewatching season 4 one of these days... lol

 

The first episode I recall seeing on Sci Fi was I think "Back and Back and Back to the future" and I just found that very weird. I also think I saw the one where D'Argo hallucinates his wife (if that's not the same one). I was in college at the time, around 2001. But I never really got to where I watched it regularly, why I dunno, maybe because I was home during the summer with no cable? I remember tuning in for the Princess trilogy because they advertised it a lot and it looked interesting, but again I did not continue watching... Soooo wish I had. I wound up never watching the whole series until 2012.

 

I agree it's definitely one of the best sci fi shows of all time. I probably would say Babylon 5 is better, albeit a very different tone, and B5 is less exciting to me now because I've seen it a couple of times and know the story pretty well, but I remember being just as excited about it in the 90s as I was when watching Farscape on Netflix, lol.

[Danny Franks]

 

The only complaint I kind of have was, after Chiana, I did think any future crew member never became as awesome as the original gang.  Only exception, and it might be unpopular, was Sikozu, who I actually liked because her self-serving attitude brought in some interesting scenes, and her attitude amused me (she reminded me of one of those people who is very book smart, but has horrible social skills, and it always rubbing people the wrong way.)  So, I liked her, although I was disappointed over what they did with her in The Peacekeeper Wars.  But I found Stark too over-the-top, Jool too obnoxious, and I really got tired of "Granny's" Schick. Nothing against any of the actors, and they all still had some good moments, but nothing could beat the Crichton/Aeryn/D'Argo/Zhaan/Chiana/Rygel team, for me.

 

I agree that they struggled to introduce new characters after Chiana who really seemed to fit and make the show better. I thought Stark's craziness was a bit too grating, and his relationship with Zhaan was just... yuck. Jool was annoying, but she was supposed to be, and I did find her helplessness quite sympathetic and endearing at times. Noranti? The less said the better.

 

As for Sikozu? I adored her. I've said before that my feelings about 'ships on the show ran a little counter to most peoples', but I'd have loved to see John and Sikozu hook up for a while. She was damned sexy, and so smart, and it seemed like they did hint at something between them for a couple of episodes, before dropping it. I really did not like the path Sikozu took after that, though. Her being a secret insurgent against the Scarrans felt far too convenient, and her thing with Scorpius was too icky, even for this show. Then she betrayed Scorpius too... and possibly the Scarrans again. Everything got a bit too jumbled. 

 

Your point about her being book smart but people dumb sums her up perfectly, I think. But she did just pop, from her first appearance. I can even picture the scene now, when she and John were in the module, and he does a little 'floating away' gesture with his hand, which she follows with such intent eyes and little head bobs, just trying to figure him out. I recall someone making the comparison once that, if Chiana was all catlike grace and slinkiness, then Sikozu was pure bird.

 

Also, Scorpius was such a great antagonist, that it made his turn into an anti-hero a bit disappointing (plus, it felt like it tread similar ground with what they did with Crais), and neither Grayza or Emperor Staleek, could match him in the big baddie department.

 

 

This too. Crais worked as an anti-hero because his motives in hating John were ultimately sympathetic. He lost his brother. I think there was always the chance of redemption, if he came to understand it was an accident. Scorpius never had any motivations except seeking more power. He became more sympathetic through Harvey, in my view. The humanised version of him in John's mind. And I think that's as close as he ever should have come to being a good guy. He was a strong enough villain that Grayza was never needed.

 

One thing I did like was that by the time We're So Screwed rolled around, everything was so ramped the fuck up; the Moya gang was literally the scourge of god by that point *and then they made nuclear weapon.* Waltzed into the heart of the Scarran Empire and told everyone to fuck off. The whole plan to incite the riot was just brilliant television with one of the best lines ever: They're trying to override our override of the override!

 

 

I loved the way their reputation just kept growing and growing, and the idea of them as these legendary outlaws formed, for the most part from them goofing things up and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The main gang all worked really well together, and any pairing of characters would serve an episode so well. Whether it was D'Argo and John, D'argo and Aeryn, John and Rygel, Zhaan and Aeryn. And then Chiana too, who worked really well with all of them. But I always enjoyed it the most when the aliens were all running to keep up with the way John's mind worked.

[ganesh]

I think there was always the chance of redemption, if he came to understand it was an accident.

 

Crais pretty much said that flat out to Crighton before he died. 

 

Almost nothing beats, "You and your white death pod!"

 

I loved the way their reputation just kept growing and growing, and the idea of them as these legendary outlaws formed, for the most part from them goofing things up and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

A lot of it did result from Scorpius chasing them all over the place, so they kept getting cornered. The thing with We're So Screwed is that the Scarrans et al., whomever abducted Aeryn in the first place, *grossly* underestimated the literal rain of death that the crew was going to bring down. They *nuked* the seat of the Scarran Empire. Actually bombing them back into the stone age. 

 

 

Let's just take Aeryn and trade for the wormhole knowledge. 

Uh, they blew up a moon once. You know that right? That maniac jumped on the table with a nuclear weapon strapped to his chest.

Edited August 5, 2014 by ganesh

[Danny Franks]

Almost nothing beats, "You and your white death pod!"

 

 

I loved that. Like, Crais had to try so hard to blame John for the death. Because there's John, in his piddly little module, with the most confused, dopey look on his face that you've ever seen (that the Peacekeepers even zoom in on), and someone flies right into him. And Crais somehow twists it into that. Brilliant.

 

Lani Tupu really was so good in the role, and I think he does often get overlooked when we fans talk about the series. Seeing him become more and more unhinged through the first season, as his pursuit of John takes him further and further outside his authority, until Scorpius shows himself to be a much more potent, scary villain, and removes Crais as a threat effortlessly.

[ganesh]

They did a good job fleshing out Crais' background too, so you could appreciate he had actual intelligence and rose through the ranks on merit. Plus, his idea to birth the gunship was basically brilliant and tragic at the same time, since it ended up with his own people casting him out and his eventual death. 

[JayKay]

I think the most damning thing that detracted from Scorpius truly redeeming himself was Talyn!Harvey trying to kill John before John could get rid of him. He was pure evil for that, and I was so shocked (and betrayed! And hurt! This show) when Aeryn later let him aboard Moya, since she knew just how dangerous he could be. Even if diluted by John's psyche.

 

Talyn!Harvey's behavior also made it impossible for me to completely enjoy Moya!John and Moya!Harvey's adventures afterward because I was still mad about Talyn!John dying. Even with Scorpius' "noble" ambitions of peace between the races, somewhere in there was a petty little asshole who couldn't be trusted to do right by others and Talyn!Harvey proved it, imo. But Scorpius made a great villain all the same.

[Loandbehold]

I think the most damning thing that detracted from Scorpius truly redeeming himself was Talyn!Harvey trying to kill John before John could get rid of him. He was pure evil for that, and I was so shocked (and betrayed! And hurt! This show) when Aeryn later let him aboard Moya, since she knew just how dangerous he could be. Even if diluted by John's psyche.

 

Talyn!Harvey's behavior also made it impossible for me to completely enjoy Moya!John and Moya!Harvey's adventures afterward because I was still mad about Talyn!John dying. Even with Scorpius' "noble" ambitions of peace between the races, somewhere in there was a petty little asshole who couldn't be trusted to do right by others and Talyn!Harvey proved it, imo. But Scorpius made a great villain all the same.

Should I be worried that this entire post made perfect sense?

[Danny Franks]

So I just randomly caught an episode today, and it happened to be Kansas. God, what an odd, wonderful episode. Aeryn dressed in tie-dye spandex, the gang camped out in a derelict house, and having to ambush a police officer who won't believe D'Argo is just wearing a mask, passing Rygel off as a stuffed toy.

 

Oh, and Chiana taking young John's virginity in a pretty unsettling retcon/callback to Karen Shaw. I'll say this, Farscape was a show that was never afraid to push the boat out into weird waters. The timeline stuff is completely screwy, seeing Aeryn and Rygel watch Sesame Street is marvellous ("This girl is slow!"), giving the finger as a greeting is a daft running joke. Oh god, Rygel hopped up on sugar and carving a pumpkin into a "scary" face.

 

As a Sikozu fan though, I really liked the final scene, where she's unabashedly intrigued by meeting the humans, and wanting to see what John's reaction to them being on Moya is. She was such a cool, interesting character to be added, at such a late stage. I wish she'd become a real part of the crew.

[Danny Franks]

It's not uncommon for good villains to be turned grey because of their popularity. And they're often rendered little more than shadows of their old selves. I've seen it called 'Spikification' and I can't disagree with the term. Scorpius was definitely given the Spike treatment, towards the end.

 

I think a lot of it was down to how much fun Harvey was, in the scenes inside John's head. He wasn't really Scorpius, he was Scorpius melded with John, and there was a fun, almost affable insanity to him that carried over a bit into the real Scorpius. Then, I seem to recall (but it has been a while) that there was revealed to be a John clone implanted in Scorpius's head, which just humanised him that much more, and built the weird, creepy relationship between him and John that much more.

 

But they just didn't seem happy with Scorpius as the ultimate villain, so they brought Grayza in to one-up him, and I don't think it ever really worked. She could have been a subordinate, or equal, to Scorpius, and had the same sort of twisted relationship with him that Natira had, and it might have worked better. The Scarrans were worthy enemies though, and it made sense for Scorpius to have an agenda beyond just wanting more power.

[thuganomics85]

 

So I just randomly caught an episode today, and it happened to be Kansas. God, what an odd, wonderful episode.

I'm a sucker for those type of "fish out of water" stories, so, yeah, Kansas and the episode following it (Terra Firma, I think?), were hilarious to me.  I just loved seeing the crew dealing with being on Earth.  Kansas was the best though, since it was also back in time and watching Crichton deal with the messed up time-line.  But, my favorite was probably Aeryn discovering TV and Sesame Street.  Although, I certainly didn't mind it when the they were put in the mansion by the government in the second episode, and Sikozu and Chiana used some of that time to sunbath by the pool.

 

Speaking of those episodes, it reminds me that, while he was only in about ten episodes or so, I really liked the casting of Kent McCord as Jack.  He was one of those guys I've seen in various roles on TV, and he just gives off the perfect vibe as Jack.  You could see why he was someone that Crichton always felt like he was under his shadow and wanted to impress him, but still got the sense, that underneath his touch exterior, Jack really did care about his family.  I thought his and Crichton's farewell scenes (both in Terra Firma and Bad Timing), were very touching.

 

Now, to change things a bit: I'm currently watching the DVD commentaries now, and I just finished the Jeremiah Crichton one.  I remember reading from the AVClub review that it is considered by many to be one of the worst Farscape episodes, and I certainly won't disagree.  But, if for nothing else, I do appreciate it for having one of the most awesome commentary tracks of all time.  I just loved how all the commentators (Rockne S. O'Bannon, David Kemper, Ben Browder, and Claudia Black) are totally honest about that episode, and acknowledge that it was a failure.  Besides the hilarious slams (my favorite was Rockne basically saying that this is what happens when the reason for the episode's existence is Ben wanting to have a beard), it was actually insightful about what they were going for, and why it just didn't work, IMO.  I do think there were some good ideas (Rygel getting some back-story, Crichton's frustrations with the Moya crew), but the execution just didn't work.  I think Claudia said it best, that it was just too earnest.  Of all the episodes, it was one of the ones I could see them easily transporting the Star Trek: Next Generation crew in it, and the outcome still being the same.  Which, I love my Trek, but it just didn't work for Farscape.  Still, it was a rare misstep, and it did seem like they learned from it going forward.

Edited August 10, 2014 by thuganomics85

[ganesh]

Aeryn dressed in tie-dye spandex, the gang camped out in a derelict house, and having to ambush a police officer who won't believe D'Argo is just wearing a mask, passing Rygel off as a stuffed toy.

 

But the best part of the episode was Aeyrn speaking "english", "hello. how..are.....you." The cadence of CB was just off enough that you got she was actually speaking english versus english through translator microbes. Farscape always gets the nod because they actually thought out the language issue right from the start. Yeah, it's a cheat, but the at least addressed it pretty much immediately. 

 

Speaking of those episodes, it reminds me that, while he was only in about ten episodes or so, I really liked the casting of Kent McCord as Jack.  He was one of those guys I've seen in various roles on TV, and he just gives off the perfect vibe as Jack.

 

"But each man gets a chance to be his own kind of hero". That's flat out one of the best lines ever and was delivered not only with honesty but sincerity, by just the right person. 

 

Now, to change things a bit: I'm currently watching the DVD commentaries now, and I just finished the Jeremiah Crichton one.  I remember reading from the AVClub review that it is considered by many to be one of the worst Farscape episodes, and I certainly won't disagree.

 

I do disagree. I listened to the commentary too. It's not *that* bad and, fundamentally, it's a world building episode, in terms of the Farscape world. It was the first season. The end was actually ok, Rygel said, "I'm not your god." That's important. It also involved for one of the first times, Aeryn working with the others, and solving a technical problem. Figuring out that the planet canceled out communication and sending down the beacon. Which showed that she could be something more. It's clunky more than it's bad.

 

The worst episode, by definition, is the reverse starburst episode because it is a reset button. That's the only time the show did that. That's bad. 

 

And honestly, the first season of TNG wasn't that great. Farscape's first season was exceptional even if you think this episode was bad. 

[thuganomics85]

Fair points.  I did like the stuff with Aeryn and Zhaan, and there were still moments I did enjoy.  I'll agree that "bad" probably is a bit harsh.  But, I understood the criticisms.  I think my main issue was that I though all the actors playing the natives weren't very good.  Granted, guest actors can always be a bit of a hit or miss, but I remember thinking almost all of the non-Moya characters were bland at best, and stiff at worst.  What was strange was I actually knew the actress who played the chief's daughter, Natalie Mendoza, from past work (Beastmaster and was Juno in The Descent), but I thought she was kind of bad here.  One of the few times I thought an actress somehow didn't have chemistry with Ben Browder.

 

But, yeah, there are much worse first season episodes out there.  TNG truly did have some stinkers (oh, Justice a.k.a. Enterprise visits a planet full of hot people, and Wesley gets himself arrested for destroying sacred plants.)  Jeremiah Crichton never touched that.

 

I'm drawling a blank: what was the episode where they "reverse starburst?"  I do remember that scene, but I'm trying to remember what else was going on in that episode.

[Danny Franks]

I'm a sucker for those type of "fish out of water" stories, so, yeah, Kansas and the episode following it (Terra Firma, I think?), were hilarious to me.  I just loved seeing the crew dealing with being on Earth.  Kansas was the best though, since it was also back in time and watching Crichton deal with the messed up time-line.  But, my favorite was probably Aeryn discovering TV and Sesame Street.  Although, I certainly didn't mind it when the they were put in the mansion by the government in the second episode, and Sikozu and Chiana used some of that time to sunbath by the pool.

 

 

Absolutely. I watched Terra Firma this morning (and realised I must have seen the start of it after Kansas yesterday, because that's where the scene with Sikozu is that I mentioned) There are so many great little moments as well, with the crew trying to get their heads around all the Earth stuff. Noranti eating flowers, and telling the others they're good, Sikozu trying an apple and spitting it out in disgust, Rygel eating anything. And yes, Chiana and Sikozu in bikinis certainly wasn't an unwelcome sight. Aeryn's first Christmas and the tiny throwaway moment of Aeryn seeing the photo of Mr. Jingles and wondering "what the hell is that?.... Does he talk?"

 

I am reminded, with this episode, that I really hated Aeryn's hair in season 4. I presume it was a wig, because it looked awful. Flat and plastic and just... not good. It actually makes her stand out badly when she's in scenes with John's sister or his Earth girlfriend. Why they chose to give her that hair, I'll never know. I think they changed Chiana's wig for season 4 as well, and that didn't work either.

 

But the best part of the episode was Aeyrn speaking "english", "hello. how..are.....you." The cadence of CB was just off enough that you got she was actually speaking english versus english through translator microbes. Farscape always gets the nod because they actually thought out the language issue right from the start. Yeah, it's a cheat, but the at least addressed it pretty much immediately.

 

 

And despite me not being crazy about John/Aeryn, I always liked Aeryn a lot, so it was really endearing to see her making such an effort to connect with John by learning English. She couldn't really connect with him, due to the stuff he was snorting, but she was trying so hard to just latch onto things that made her feel closer to him. It was always touching to see big bad Aeryn Sun being so vulnerable and even naive. Claudia Black really sold the idea that her character was 'other' with that cadence, I agree.

 

And on the language front, I always appreciated how they dealt with it. Showing D'Argo communicating with the old general who was injected with translator microbes in this episode, making a point of Sikozu need to learn languages through hearing them, and so she can speak English when the humans get in contact. And when we did hear snippets of alien language, they sounded truly alien. More like Xhosa than Klingon.

 

Fair points.  I did like the stuff with Aeryn and Zhaan, and there were still moments I did enjoy.  I'll agree that "bad" probably is a bit harsh.

 

 

See, I don't think it's harsh, and I tend to agree with the peanut gallery on the commentary. Because Farscape did occasionally have stinkers, and I think Jeremiah Crichton definitely was one. I agree with Claudia that it was played too earnestly, and I definitely think that the noble savages were too Star Trek to really feel at home on Farscape. Same goes for the plot, revolving around artificially suppressed technology. It feels like something Wesley Crusher or Harry Kim would solve, while getting a crush on the gorgeous native girl.  I also thought John was painted too nobly, in his exile, which just made the episode even drier and duller. Why not have him getting involved with said gorgeous native girl, to give the character a little depth? Why not have him doing more than peacefully fishing on the beach for months?

 

I can't really agree that it's a world building episode either, because we never revisited that world, or anything remotely similar to it. There was a bit of information about the Hynerian Empire, but that was about it. I don't know if it's the worst episode, because that one where D'Argo has sex with the old Luxan shaman to reinvigorate her was really lame (most D'Argo episodes were pretty bad, I find).

 

I do think this episode would have been better if it had focused not on John, but on the others trying to find him for three months. I think that would have sold the growing family bonds much more effectively. Then, the Jeremiah Johnson stuff could have been the gag, after they're worrying about what's happened to him, only to find him chilling out, eating giant lobsters, with beautiful girls hanging off him.

 

"But each man gets a chance to be his own kind of hero". That's flat out one of the best lines ever and was delivered not only with honesty but sincerity, by just the right person.

 

 

Lines like that, and Kent McCord's performances when he was on the show, in turn really helped sell moments like John's voice-over monologue in the season 1 finale. That whole sequence gives me goosebumps whenever I watch it, and Ben Browder's performance just exudes warmth, decency, resolve, and belief in himself. And you know all that comes from his dad. He's so clearly his father's son.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Danny Franks

[ganesh]

I am reminded, with this episode, that I really hated Aeryn's hair in season 4. I presume it was a wig, because it looked awful.

 

CB said it was a three quarter wig. She actually wanted to cut her hair for S4 with a really punked out look to reflect on her time in between seasons as a bad ass assassin. But the network said no because what's her face had short hair and they didn't want the audience to be confused. *eyeroll*

 

She also came up with the Sebacean language. 

[ramble]

She also came up with the Sebacean language.

Really? That's fascinating. I always thought it had a very interesting sound to it.

I loved Kansas & Terra Firma as well. It was fun to see the interaction & reaction to earth. Honestly though I'm pretty easy when it comes to this show. Even the episodes that aren't as great I still care about despite the cheese or junk. Jeremiah Crichton definitely wasn't great but it was still Farscape so I tolerate it with fondness.

I just recently finished a rewatch but didn't watch Peacekeeper Wars because I didn't want it to end & because D'Argo...

[thuganomics85]

She also came up with the Sebacean language.

 

Really? That's fascinating. I always thought it had a very interesting sound to it.

 

 

Yeah, in the commentary track for A Human Reaction, Claudia Black said something about believing early on that the Sebaceans and Humans/Earthlings were probably related somehow, so she came up with the idea that the Sebaecean language is actually English spoken backwards.  Pretty neat idea.

 

 

I just recently finished a rewatch but didn't watch Peacekeeper Wars because I didn't want it to end & because D'Argo...

Ah, yes.  I managed to remain unspoiled when I got around to watching it, but I just had a sense that someone was probably going to die.  I kind of figured John and Aeryn were safe bets, but as soon as Chiana said she wanted to go with D'Argo to the farm, I knew one of them wasn't going to make it out.  At least he did have company, since they also killed off Jool and Sikozu.  

 

Of course, I'm still miffed over the Sikozu ending.  I really wish they didn't make her into a traitor.  If they wanted to kill her, that's fine, but I wasn't a fan of her final scene basically being her begging and getting her ass kicked by Scorpius.  It came off less about her, and more about Scorpius being a "badass."  To be fair, I guess Jool's death wasn't really about her, but it at least served a purpose, by effecting the Moya crew, and showing how bad things were getting.

Edited August 11, 2014 by thuganomics85

[ganesh]

Claudia Black said something about believing early on that the Sebaceans and Humans/Earthlings were probably related somehow, so she came up with the idea that the Sebaecean language is actually English spoken backwards.  Pretty neat idea.

 

Which proved useful since the reveal in PK wars explained why she could get pregnant by John. 

[JayKay]

Of course, I'm still miffed over the Sikozu ending.  I really wish they didn't make her into a traitor.  If they wanted to kill her, that's fine, but I wasn't a fan of her final scene basically being her begging and getting her ass kicked by Scorpius.  It came off less about her, and more about Scorpius being a "badass."  To be fair, I guess Jool's death wasn't really about her, but it at least served a purpose, by effecting the Moya crew, and showing how bad things were getting.

I feel bad because I didn't even remember that Jool died when I read this. And I agree with everything you said about Sikozu and how her story ended. I remember reading/hearing/watching somewhere that the segment of Unrealized Reality where she was a psychotic assassin spy was supposed to be some kind of hint/foreshadowing. But that seems wasteful to me, because those AUs were supposed to be a departure from the norm. Sikozu getting put down like a rabid dog was a disservice to the character imo.

[Bruinsfan]

I too regarded Moya John as the "real" John on a gut level, even though the show took pains to refer to them as equally valid. (Both likely being copies of the destroyed original as millahnna said above.) I do wish that instead of having them be antagonistic to each other prior to separation, the show had instead depicted them as thrilled to have someone with a common frame of reference to talk to. Imagine all the in-jokes they could have shared that none of the rest of the characters would understand! And they could have encouraged each other's crazy plans!

[ganesh]

I wanted the show to go completely bonkers and have a John-Aeryn threesome. 

[Bruinsfan]

CB said it was a three quarter wig. She actually wanted to cut her hair for S4 with a really punked out look to reflect on her time in between seasons as a bad ass assassin. But the network said no because what's her face had short hair and they didn't want the audience to be confused. *eyeroll*

Is this the same network that OK'd Sikozu's drastic change in appearance between the series and Peacekeeper Wars? So the audience might not recognize Aeryn if her hair was a bit shorter, but Sikozu suddenly being replaced by Peter Pan was no problem at all...

[ganesh]

I'm only going on memory. I assume the drastic change for PK Wars didn't matter because the movie was funded by a private entity. So they had no input to that end.

Edited August 12, 2014 by ganesh

[Danny Franks]

I was not pleased at all with Sikozu's transformation in Peacekeeper Wars. As I've said (several times, I think), I really liked the character, and was not a fan of her turning into Scorpius's kinky servant, who just kept betraying everyone. 

 

I do think that Aeryn's wig actually contributed to me being less invested than ever in John/Aeryn in season 4. She just didn't look that good, and I think Claudia Black was a bit too skinny by that time as well. She just looked a little bit unhealthy, which may have been intentional, but it didn't work for me.

 

Of course, I'm still miffed over the Sikozu ending.  I really wish they didn't make her into a traitor.  If they wanted to kill her, that's fine, but I wasn't a fan of her final scene basically being her begging and getting her ass kicked by Scorpius.  It came off less about her, and more about Scorpius being a "badass."  To be fair, I guess Jool's death wasn't really about her, but it at least served a purpose, by effecting the Moya crew, and showing how bad things were getting.

 

 

Sikozu didn't die in Peacekeeper Wars. I don't recall the exact details, but she survives whatever Scorpius does to her. She does apparently get killed off in the Farscape comic books, in a noble sacrifice to save some Leviathans (this was after she learned that super badass cool guy Scorpius had engineered the annihilation of the Kalish). But I don't really think that makes up for how they mishandled her character after the first few episodes of season 4. I thought she worked really well with the rest of the crew, and her superior attitude and intellect managed to mesh better than Jool's did a season earlier. Plus, Raelee Hill had a fantastic line in exasperated, 'are you really this dumb?' facial expressions. Her scenes with John, Chiana and Rygel, in particular, were always really fun.

 

Making her a bioloid in the first place was an awful decision, because they'd just shown how bioloids were not real people, by having John casually kill the Aeryn one. Then she turns out to be designed as a Scarran killer, then she turns out to be spying for the Scarrans, then she.... Yeah. I don't think even the writers ever quite figured out what she was supposed to be, and that's a shame.

 

Ah, yes.  I managed to remain unspoiled when I got around to watching it, but I just had a sense that someone was probably going to die.  I kind of figured John and Aeryn were safe bets, but as soon as Chiana said she wanted to go with D'Argo to the farm, I knew one of them wasn't going to make it out.  At least he did have company, since they also killed off Jool and Sikozu.

 

 

Yet they kept the dreadful Jothee alive. But at least they changed actor and prosthetics, to make him a little less annoying. I never liked that character at all, and the Jothee/Chiana subplot was too gross even for this show.

 

I don't think of this series as one that kills off characters, really. But when I look back, they certainly weren't shy about it. Gilina, Crais, Talyn, Zhaan, John (kind of), Jool, D'Argo, Jack the Ancient, D.K. and his wife. Hmm.

[ganesh]

You know what though? Those deaths *hit*. You figured one of the Johns had to die, but it was fucking BOOM. (Plus, I loved the prior scene when Aeryn leaped out of the buggy and John smacked her on the ass.)

 

Who wasn't sad over Talyn? It was only a set! I think the only one really that was a cheat was D'Argo, but to be fair between all the Katratzi annihilation and the PK Wars, the face that no one died would have been a stretch. I compare it to Wash dying in the Firefly movie. Not totally necessary, but, yeah, kind of because then when your main characters cross into invincibility, you lose something. 

 

Even though you knew Aeryn probably wasn't going to die on Katratzi, there was that little bit in the back of my mind...they *might* do it. But the only problem would be that the response would be John ripping the known universe to shreds and that would have been hard to develop as a story.

 

Game of Thrones is great, and I totally buy all the death that is present in that world, and it's earned. Revenge? Sure. You're stupid? You die. And there's a lot of stupid people. But it's at a point where I'm rolling my eyes. The Red Wedding was like "whoa!" But cartoonish at the same time. (Fun fact, I ripped off a lecture on the red wedding and risk management off the top of my head the next day. Students loved it.)

 

Farscape always kept coming at you from different ways and you just weren't quite sure. That's unique in a tv show.

 

And unique is always valuable. 

[Danny Franks]

You know what though? Those deaths *hit*. You figured one of the Johns had to die, but it was fucking BOOM. (Plus, I loved the prior scene when Aeryn leaped out of the buggy and John smacked her on the ass.)

 

Who wasn't sad over Talyn? It was only a set! I think the only one really that was a cheat was D'Argo, but to be fair between all the Katratzi annihilation and the PK Wars, the face that no one died would have been a stretch. I compare it to Wash dying in the Firefly movie. Not totally necessary, but, yeah, kind of because then when your main characters cross into invincibility, you lose something. 

 

Even though you knew Aeryn probably wasn't going to die on Katratzi, there was that little bit in the back of my mind...they *might* do it. But the only problem would be that the response would be John ripping the known universe to shreds and that would have been hard to develop as a story.

 

Game of Thrones is great, and I totally buy all the death that is present in that world, and it's earned. Revenge? Sure. You're stupid? You die. And there's a lot of stupid people. But it's at a point where I'm rolling my eyes. The Red Wedding was like "whoa!" But cartoonish at the same time. (Fun fact, I ripped off a lecture on the red wedding and risk management off the top of my head the next day. Students loved it.)

 

Farscape always kept coming at you from different ways and you just weren't quite sure. That's unique in a tv show.

 

And unique is always valuable. 

 

This is what I'm getting at, I think. Yes, there were several character deaths on the show, but I never dwelled on them because they were what had to happen, in that moment, in those circumstances. They weren't put in there to shock the audience, they weren't to cause a stir, it just felt like organic storytelling in a world where people die.

 

So I miss the characters, but when I think of Zhaan, I don't think of her death (in fact, I had actually forgotten the exact circumstances of her death until I looked it up just now). When I think of Crais and Talyn, I don't think of how they sacrificed themselves. I think of stuff they did when they were alive. Because they were always about much more than how they died.

 

Game of Thrones uses 'anyone can die!' as a gimmick now, just as GRRM did with the books, and I find it a little tiresome. It is over-the-top, it is cartoonish, because they feel like they have to go a bit further, every time. And most of the time, the deaths actually derail the narrative, in favour of reinforcing the brutality of the world. So that's fine, if that's what you want to see, but narrative strands being cut off like that just make me feel like I've wasted my time.

[ganesh]

What liked was after Zhaan died, D'Argo said to John, "you killed Zhaan." "That's not fair." "Too fucking bad."

[Danny Franks]

I wanted the show to go completely bonkers and have a John-Aeryn threesome. 

 

I'm not sure if Aeryn would have gone for that (let alone the jealous Johns), but I know Chiana would have been all over the idea. 

 

I really enjoyed that moment in Fractures, when Moya John and Dead John played Rock, Paper, Scissors together, and both chose the same option, but more, that they both knew they'd pick the same option. And what Bruinsfan says about them missing an opportunity for John to enjoy talking to another human, even if it was himself. But I guess they thought they needed to do something about the increasingly bloated cast, and splitting them into parallel adventures made sense, especially given that John could still be in all the episodes.

 

So I've ended up beginning a rewatch of the show, and I'm actually surprised by just how quickly Aeryn begins opening up to John. In small ways, at first, like the way she starts using his Earth words (like 'woody') and trying to understand his references. But then the emotional openness starts pretty early as well, and she even cops to it in PK Tech Girl, by admitting that she found John "fascinating" and didn't like "getting ambushed" by him and Gilina. It's strange that she seems to start responding to John even before he realises he has an interest in her. You'd think, with him being Mr. Compassion, and her being the ice cold bitch she was, it would be the other way around.

[ganesh]

"It's like Dagobah, with your Yoda." "Oh, yeah."

 

I would have watched several hours of John acting out and telling Aeryn all about Star Wars.

[thuganomics85]

 

Sikozu didn't die in Peacekeeper Wars. I don't recall the exact details, but she survives whatever Scorpius does to her.

Oh, I did not know it.  I think the final shot was someone finding her body hanging from something, so I had assumed she died.  I guess I was wrong.  Did Scorpius just beat her up?  I never could figure out what exactly he did to her.

 

I agree that the deaths on this show usually did hit and didn't just feel like deaths for the sake of it.  They really did a great job at them (in S1, if you had told me I would be touched over the death of Crais, I wouldn't have believed you.), and I found them believable.  The reverse of it was some who actually didn't die.  For some reason, I really loved that Braca was standing at the end. I had thought for sure he would be someone they would kill off, but nope, the guy kept sticking around.  Got to respect a man who served under Crais (briefly, I think), Scorpius, AND Grayza, was there for pretty much every frelling, disastrous event, and still was in one piece.  I always have soft spot for "henchman" characters, and I just love that Braca kept on surviving.

Edited August 13, 2014 by thuganomics85

[ganesh]

Braca is one of those guys that has to make it through. Survived a fight with Crighton and Katratzi.

[Danny Franks]

So I just watched A Human Reaction, and I'm reminded of something Dan Harmon said he took immense pride in, when editing the first Christmas episode of Community. When he realised that he'd created a family, of these characters. That the relationships were powerful and the bonds real. I really got a sense of that with this episode.

 

The reactions of Zhaan, D'Argo, Aeryn and even Rygel, to John leaving, were powerful and they felt completely earned, by the events of the first fifteen episodes of the season. Their sense of loss over the idea of him leaving them, and his hesitation over leaving at all, because he'd come to care about these people in such a short period of time. They'd all come a long way, very quickly.

 

And again, Claudia Black sold the hell out of Aeryn's turmoil. Her inability to deal honestly with what she was feeling, and just how strong those feelings were. Which, of course, led to them sleeping together later in the episode, though I believe that was edited in the US broadcast version, so viewers weren't sure what had happened.

 

I really loved Aeryn's fascination with rain as well. Little moments like that added an almost cute aspect to her character, which was so intriguing when juxtaposed with her badass soldierly qualities. Almost childlike wonder at something so mundane.

 

The idea of John being treated as a test subject on his return was an interesting riff on the 'alien landing/government conspiracy trope'. And John being faced with the comparative barbarity of the primitive humans was a really cool idea. That they would want to experiment on the aliens, and that they'd pick the least human looking one to start with. And it's all based on John's latent fears of how his people would treat his new friends.

 

And of course, this really was the episode that kickstarted the overriding narrative for the entire rest of the series. Stoopid Ancient Jack, sticking that knowledge in John's head!

Edited August 14, 2014 by Danny Franks

[ganesh]

The jamming of the equations in John's head wasn't in the USA version either. I saw it when I got the DVDs. 

[jah1986]

I absolutely love discussing these episodes again. It's been a while since I've re-watched but most of the episodes are burned into my brain so I don't think I could ever do a full re-watch.  It always amazes me how with this show you know exactly which episode it is just going by the episode title. That is rare in my case. I don't even know most episode titles of shows I watch but Farscape was different. I agree with others that the show really seemed to find its footing with PK Tech Girl.

 

A Human Reaction was also a great episode and good set up for Won't Get Fooled Again. I may just have to pull out some of the DVD's and revisit.

[Danny Franks]

I think any episodes that have Crichton, or any of the crew, acting more crazily than the norm, automatically go somewhere near the top of my favourites list.

 

Won't Get Fooled Again is just... mental. Amazingly batshit insane. From Crais in stilettos to Chiana in a schoolgirl outfit to Rygel in a gimp outfit. 

 

Then there's Crackers Don't Matter, which is even better. Everyone is completely loopy and irrational, saying and doing bizarre, increasingly scary things. The sort of things that you might struggle to take back (especially John insinuating that he would rape Chiana. Dark), and even if you can, you can't really forget them.

 

Even in the last episode I watched, Through the Looking Glass, there are some classic moments. John and Aeryn (or was it Ben and Claudia?) cracking one another up with their mimes of D'Argo and Rygel. John, Rygel and Chiana cutting loose and turning into giggling, helpless wrecks, with scenes that look for all the world like they're blooper reel fodder... but then you remember Rygel isn't a real person, and can't go off script like that. Him warning Chiana, "don't slip and fall and die!" is something I always mean to work into a conversation, should the opportunity arise.

 

And I know what you mean, jah1986, about the episode titles being so memorable that I remember the storyline and a lot of the details, just from that. Perhaps it's because I've watched them so many times, but perhaps it's just because the titles, and the episodes, are so memorable. There are some blah ones, especially in early season 1 and mid season 2, but mostly I remember them all. Unless they have Maldis in them. Boy, he sucked!

[jah1986]

Yeah, I never loved Maldis either Danny Franks. Speaking of mental episodes, I think one of my all time favorites has to be Out of Their Minds. Great without getting dark.

[thuganomics85]

While they might have done some crazy episodes before it (I can't remember), Crackers Don't Matter was the first episode where I remember thinking "This show is just insane and I love it for it!"  I remember that I barely could breathe during the scene when Crichton finally rounds everyone up, and he just starts shooting piles of crackers near everyone.  Between that and the way the crumbs kept falling over everyone, just slayed me.  But, really, the entire episode was made of win.  What was interesting that the episode following it was The Way We Weren't, which is probably one of my favorite "serious" episodes of Farscape.  Those two being back-to-back was a prime example of how great this show was at changing tones.  It never felt inconsistent, which is pretty impressive.

 

Another one that I really liked was John Quixote.  Just pure insanity again, and seeing all the characters playing bizarre roles like Crais as an Ogre and Scorpius as a butler, just killed me.  Plus, Aeryn as the Fake Princess.  I honestly do not know what kind of accent Claudia Black was going for, but whatever it was, it was awesome!  And, it was nice that they were able to get Virginia Hey back to play Zhaan for a scene.  Although, I didn't realize until I listen to one of the commentaries that the Male Zhaan was played by Rowan Woods, who was one of Farscape's big directors.

[ganesh]

I believe the accent was Southern Belle.

 

I also think JQ was written by BB, and there was another one about the budong that had some great lines. 

[millahnna]

Green Eyed Monster.

[ganesh]

He's going to vomit and then they'll ride out on the vomit. They're going to say yes. 

 

Stark? We're going to have to say no to that. 

[JayKay]

"Prayer" was on tv earlier today and the scene where Aeryn kills the spy still gives me chills. The expression in Claudia Black's eyes is phenomenal acting. I put it right up there with Ben Browder's reaction when Crichton's mom begins begging him to stay with her in "Won't Get Fooled Again," which is one of the most moving moments of the series for me. People who don't take Sci-Fi actors seriously haven't seen Farscape.

[ganesh]

People who don't take Sci-Fi actors seriously haven't seen Farscape.

 

Ain't that the fucking truth. You know it's funny because some of the actors from BSG have gone on to do other stuff. And they should, I thought the actors were good. MM and EJO already had cred prior to BSG and MF seems to pop up all over the place. BB and CB went over to SG1 and that's fine, but eh. CB actually has had a lot of V/O work. 

 

Much of good sci fi is like that. It's not really a genre, it's a medium. There's romance, comedy, farce, tragedy, and adventure. CB even said: scifi allows you to tell certain stories that you just can't tell anywhere else. 

 

I really think it was the times. EW covered FS occasionally, but without twitter and FB, there's only so much. They covered BSG more because there was more buzz off social media. Filming in Australia didn't help either. 

 

This is the same as B5 I think. This show needs to get on netflix so a new generation of fans can discover the show. I'm not saying it's the greatest show ever, but it is kind of timeless, so I don't think new fans would see the show as dated or the effects stale. Neither show is going to find new life unless there are new fans. 

 

I've said since 2001 this could be a modern Star Trek franchise. Not only does the movie need to be moderately successful, but more people need to discover the series. If the movie helps with that, so much the better. 

Edited September 16, 2014 by ganesh

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

CB actually has had a lot of V/O work.

 I finally convinced a friend of mine to watch Farscape. Once she did she excitedly texted me that she loved Claudia Black from all her VO work and didn't realize she was a lead on Farscape... go figure... had I known there was a connection she might have watched it sooner lol

[JayKay]

The first time I met my best friend's husband, we both tried to convince my bff to watch Farscape because CB voiced Morrigan in the Dragon Age games, which she loves. I need to ask her if she's checked it out on Netflix yet...

I love that story about none of the actors playing Peacekeepers knew the proper Peacekeeper accent because CB's is so unique and nobody could duplicate it.

[Il Cucchiaio]

I know most of the dialogue in Farscape had to be ADR'ed, but was watching the LatP trilogy, and I was kind of distracted by how Jenavian's lips and voice are out of sync.  It almost seems like her part was overdubbed by a different actress.  I didn't see any voice credit to another actress on imdb for these episodes, but I found some videos of the actress (Bianca Chiminello) on youtube, and her voice sounded different to me.  It's not a big deal, but I was wondering whether anyone else noticed this or knew whether/why they used a different actress's voice.

 

EDIT: I guess I was wrong.  Based on this, it sounds like she did the ADR herself.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Il Cucchiaio

[ganesh]

Why should the PKs all sound the same though? We don't all sound the same. People who live in the same state don't sound the same. 

[Kev]

From a while back:

 

 

I'm drawling a blank: what was the episode where they "reverse starburst?"  I do remember that scene, but I'm trying to remember what else was going on in that episode.

The Locket