Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Password]

To be fair, Felicity's non reaction to Ray's lack of boundaries simply stems from the WRITERS not giving her one. Because they don't see it as stalkery, overboard and...wrong, Felicity doesn't.

She called him out on it at the beginning, but then settled in for "it's just one of his things". So now she says something a little mm mm to him about his wife, it's 10 different shades of wrong. It'd probably be different if it was a shoe on the other foot moment. As in she did call him out on his tendencies, but now he turns the tables.

I choose not to read it as such, but you could say Felicity didn't call him out on his...habits because he's her boss, but that opens the door to inequality issues. I didn't think there was anything wrong with what she said, perhaps the delivery and emotion behind it got his heckles up but I thought she had a point.

[BkWurm1]

I choose not to read it as such, but you could say Felicity didn't call him out on his...habits because he's her boss, but that opens the door to inequality issues.

 

 

I've thought about this as well and in most real life circumstances, I do think this would be a factor but we had in the same episode as the phone pinging Felicity ready to quit and walk away if Ray didn't do as she demanded and when she thought he wasn't going to tell her, she was headed out that door.  I saw that as proof that she's not worried about keeping the boss man happy.  If it bothered her (or if the writers let it bother her, lol) she would tell him.  Ray went to too much trouble for her to not feel like she has power in their relationship which is probably one of the reasons why his actions don't bug me much. 

 

I didn't think there was anything wrong with what she said, perhaps the delivery and emotion behind it got his heckles up but I thought she had a point.

 

Oh, she absolutely had a point but I get Ray's reaction too.  Felicity can say anything she thinks but it's a low blow to tell Ray what he's doing would make the woman he loved disappointed in him.  It's not about Felicity being right or wrong, it's about using his loss against him and while that wasn't Felicity's intention, just bringing up Anna was guaranteed to hurt him.  Some things are just too emotionally manipulative to go near (and please don't think I think Felicity was in any way manipulating him - she was putting herself in the fiancé's place and identifying with her.)  Too raw of a wound.  Too easy of a target. That kind of stuff.   

[Carrie Ann]

Right--imagine how mad we'd be if Ray tried to tell Felicity how Oliver would feel about something. He doesn't know Oliver and he has no right to talk to Felicity from that perspective. I didn't like how that played out, or that she had to apologize to Ray, but his anger at her and the way he handled that whole conversation was the most I've ever liked him. In fact, I didn't have a single problem with Ray himself this episode, but I continue to have a problem with the way his story is pulling focus.

[doesntworkonwood]

To be fair, Felicity's non reaction to Ray's lack of boundaries simply stems from the WRITERS not giving her one. Because they don't see it as stalkery, overboard and...wrong, Felicity doesn't.

 

 

And that's the crux of the problem. 

 

They started Felicity's relationship with Ray off by pretty much admitting that Ray was behaving in an stalkery way. Ray himself almost admit's it, 'Well that depends on whether or not you consider pinging your phones GPS stalking, Okay Guilty'. And the look that Felicity gives him when he says that isn't that he's endearing. She doesn't look happy at all, she looks pretty angry at him. She certainly doesn't look like she's okay with that type of behavior, and yet when he does it again, she's fine with it, because the writers don't think what Ray's doing is wrong. 

 

And Felicity does call him a stalker in anger, not with anything like annoyance, she say's 'I get it, loud and clear you are rich, you are impulsive, and frankly you are the creepiest form of stalker that I have ever had to deal with'. That's not a joke, that's not just frustration, that's straight up anger, and Ray just brushes it off, like it means nothing, because to the writers it doesn't. 

 

What Felicity says means nothing at all to Ray, because it means nothing at all to the writers. Ray has harassed her, 'You can stop, you can stop sending me flowers, and you can stop texting me, and calling me, and e-mailing me because I spam them anyway, because I am never, ever ever ever going to work for you.', and whilst you can talk that away because it was business at that point, but Felicity is still written as uncomfortable with it. I mean, this is what, a few days after he first met her? That sort of reaction can't be because a couple of e-mails. But to the writers? It's okay and it gets a free pass. 

 

Ray does seem to think he has power over her, at least at the beginning. 'You can either work for me here, in the big office with the big salary, or you can work for me there, in that awful uniform'. That is such an awful line, he literally sounds like he's speaking to a child. That's not the way a good boss treats his employees. The only saving grace about it is that Felicity quits right afterwards. 

 

But the reason that Ray got away with this behaviour is because he was written with it and the writers thought it would just be comedic, or endearing. But it's not. The writers expected us just to ignore it, forget about it and move on onto the things that Ray does now, but that's not happening in my case. Those were the first things I saw about Ray, and now they're stuck in my mind every time I see him. 

[statsgirl]

I think Felicity invoked Anna's name because she was desperate to get through to Ray.  She likes the guy and she doesn't want to see him get killed too.

 

Was it wrong?  Technically yes because she didn't know Anna. But I can't see a woman who loves a man being okay with him getting killed like that.

 

Ray of course got angry at Felicity partly because she shouldn't have said that, but mostly I think because his only purpose in life now with Anna dead is to prevent anything like that happening again. That's why he bought QC, for the OMAC plans, why he stalked Felicity so she would work for him and get the info off the busted drive that no one else could, and why he's building the suit.  Of course he's going to shut down anyone who says he's not doing the right thing.

[Password]

Right--imagine how mad we'd be if Ray tried to tell Felicity how Oliver would feel about something. He doesn't know Oliver and he has no right to talk to Felicity from that perspective. I didn't like how that played out, or that she had to apologize to Ray, but his anger at her and the way he handled that whole conversation was the most I've ever liked him. In fact, I didn't have a single problem with Ray himself this episode, but I continue to have a problem with the way his story is pulling focus.

Must I be so negative. Ray does have the tendency to mansplain Felicity's feelings. Shoe is on the other foot bruh. Like I said, I agree with what she said, the way she said it is the problem. I think when she came back to explain things, he understood. But eh I can't hold it against her.

[BkWurm1]

Ray does seem to think he has power over her, at least at the beginning. 'You can either work for me here, in the big office with the big salary, or you can work for me there, in that awful uniform'. That is such an awful line, he literally sounds like he's speaking to a child. That's not the way a good boss treats his employees. The only saving grace about it is that Felicity quits right afterwards.

 

That's what gives a balance to their power.  Felicity is only working for him because she chooses to. She doesn't feel compelled to stay if something is not to her liking. 

 

Ray pulled an immense about of crap trying to get Felicity to work for him and no, he didn't care how she felt about it but I really do think he'd care now that he knows her as a person.  Before she was just a means to an end but now I think it's far to say he likes her and values what she says and thinks. 

 

I get not forgetting how he acted when we first met him but I guess I'm willing to forgive his past behavior given his motivations and intentions, at least until he does something truly unforgivable and I just don't think showing up early in the morning or pinging a cell are points of no return. 

 

Kind of on a different topic but I find it an interesting contrast the difference between how Oliver first viewed Felicity and how Ray viewed her.  Oliver saw her as a person while to Ray, she was just a means to an end.

[KirkB]

Kind of on a different topic but I find it an interesting contrast the difference between how Oliver first viewed Felicity and how Ray viewed her.  Oliver saw her as a person while to Ray, she was just a means to an end.

 

 

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I think at first Oliver just saw Felicity as an IT person he could get to do some shady stuff for him because he was her boss. It was after spending time with her that he began to realize there was more to the blonde in the ponytail.

[NumberCruncher]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I think at first Oliver just saw Felicity as an IT person he could get to do some shady stuff for him because he was her boss. It was after spending time with her that he began to realize there was more to the blonde in the ponytail.

Yeah, I would actually agree with this. Both men were using Felicity to further their crime-fighting goals. The main difference, however, if that Ray forcibly hounded her until she relented, while Oliver asked a favor of an employee. You can certainly argue that Oliver was in a power situation as her boss, but it never really came off that way to me as Felicity never protested (unlike the many times she did with Ray).

[Password]

So what we're really trying to say is RAY IS A BIG BALL OF SUCK.

I regret nothing.

[romantic idiot]

Also, Oliver did say that he saw her as a person - see no reason not to take him at his word. She didn't have to be the only person he could have gone for that. And it wouldn't hurt her personally. Ray, on the other hand, would have, and should have known that his actions would hurt her. 

 

So yeah, Ray's a big ball of suck. Played by, I'm very sorry to say, a terrible actor. I've been trying to recast in my head and am mourning the possibilities. Can you imagine Tahmoh doing the salmon ladder? I'd have swooned. 

[tv echo]

Regarding Laurel not appearing to grieve over Oliver's supposed death, this might be over-analyzing the psyche of it all - but I think the interrelationships among Oliver, Laurel and Sara were really unhealthy and dysfunctional.  Laurel sabotaged Sara's chances with Oliver and snagged him for herself, knowing of her sister's interest.  Sara brought Oliver to the Lance family dinner and flaunted their relationship in Laurel's face.  Oliver slept with and loved both sisters, even while feeling free to cheat.

 

So even though Laurel appeared to forgive and accept both Sara and Oliver last season, she did have those initial angry, hostile reactions to each of them returning from the dead.  I think that deep down, Laurel still never really forgave either of them for deceiving her and going on that boat trip.  Plus Laurel must have suffered not only hurt but public humiliation when they died and all of Starling City knew that her boyfriend had cheated on her with her sister. 

 

So it could be that part of Laurel's drive to avenge/honor/become her sister is partly guilt over never fully forgiving Sara.  On the other hand, when Oliver died (again), part of it was a "been there, done that" feeling.  But also, on some subconscious level, Laurel probably felt a sense of karma that Oliver had been 'punished' for his transgressions against her.

 

With both Sara and Oliver gone, Laurel would finally be free of her morass of mixed feelings about her sister and ex-boyfriend.

[statsgirl]

There should be a whole lot of guilt over how she treated Sara in how Laurel reacts now that Sara is dead. Whether there will be, that's up to the writer's.

 

I saw her non-reaction to Oliver's death as her way of coping -- Felicity went through the stages and eventually quit, Diggle felt bad because he couldn't protect him, Roy was sad and Laurel picked up Sara's things and started to fight.  (I'm bitter that she's getting praised on the boards for something that was as reactionary and dysfunctional as everyone else.)

[Genki]

I still think a bit problem with Laurel is that she doesn't really understand the hell that Sara and Oliver went through during those 5 years. The reason for this is because she is, at heart, All.About.Laurel. she only knows the hell she went through during the 5 years, Sara dying ware "Unfair" because she "just got her back" forget about the waste of a woman, in her prime, who went through hell and was just making peace with her situation's light being snuff out. I don't think Laurel was even shown to really try to understand what they went thorough. Even when she learnt about Sara as the BC the comment about her name being beautiful seemed asinine to me. They stuffed up by not giving more bonding scenes between Sara and Laurel and making their relationship more about Oliver.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Genki

[Guest]

I still think a bit problem with Laurel is that she doesn't really understand the hell that Sara and Oliver went through during those 5 years. The reason for this is because she is, at heart, All.About.Laurel. she only knows the hell she went through during the 5 years, Sara dying ware "Unfair" because she "just got her back" forget about the waste of a woman, in her prime, who went through hell and was just making peace with her situation's light being snuff out. I don't think Laurel was even shown to really try to understand what they went thorough. Even when she learnt about Sara as the BC the comment about her name being beautiful seemed asinine to me. They stuffed up by not giving more bonding scenes between Sara and Laurel and making their relationship more about Oliver.

 

I couldn't agree more with this. Even not telling Quentin that Sara died is because she doesn't want to lose someone else, not really considering that it's better that he knows. Smh.

 

I honestly think if we'd had better scenes between Sara and Laurel, this BC arc and avenging her sister would be more emotionally compelling. As it stands I just don't buy that they were close at all and the whole thing falls flat.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Guest

[BkWurm1]

I honestly think if we'd had better scenes between Sara and Laurel, this BC arc and avenging her sister would be more emotionally compelling. As it stands I just don't buy that they were close at all and the whole thing falls flat.

 

They rushed the events of the first episode.  Just imagine even a few episodes of Laurel and Sara just being sisters.  Sara could come to Starling for whatever reason and stay with Laurel and in the middle of the night she could come home and they have some cute bonding moment even a few more chats on roof tops to make me believe they had finally found a way to have a good relationship.  Imagine how much more shocking it would be to lose Sara after we in the audience just think the chat on the roof is the now normal cute sisters scene.  When Sara died, I never cried for Laurel.  She hadn't earned it.  Everything we saw on the show between them was either antagonistic or superficial. 

 

At the same time they could have had Laurel be non hostile and competent, redeeming her for a lot of the audience.  Just a little patience would have made a world of difference.  

[kismet]

I believe that when MG felt Vienna was a good song for Olicity, I think what I really translated is its an even better song for Olicity shippers. Its a good song with good sentiment, but its not what I would describe a good relationship song. Its a good song for a ship tho.

 

I did find a much better song this evening when Christina Perri dropped her official video to "the Words" with Colin O'Donoghue from OUAT. That is a far more appropriate song I think for the relationship between Oliver & Felicity. Its beautiful & hopeful. And all about finding the light, trying again, overcoming whatever fears you may have. That love and truth are good things. Esp since we have yet to hear how Felicity actually feels, even though its pretty obvious. Its also a really nice video, if u wanna check it out on youtube

 

Christina Perri - The Words Lyrics | MetroLyrics

"All of the lights land on you
The rest of the world fades from you
And all of the love I see
Please please say you feel it too
And all of the noise I hear inside
Restless and loud, unspoken and wild
And all that you need to say
To make it all go away
It's that you feel the same way too

And I know
The scariest part is letting go
'Cause love is a ghost you can't control
I promise you the truth can't hurt us now
So let the words slip out of your mouth

And all of the steps that led me to you
And all of the hell I had you walk through
But I wouldn't trade a day for the chance to say
My love, I'm in love with you

And I know
The scariest part is letting go
'Cause love is a ghost you can't control
I promise you the truth can't hurt us now
So let the words slip out of your mouth

I know that we're both afraid
We both made the same mistakes
An open heart is an open wound to you
And in the wind there's a heavy choice
Love has a quiet voice
Still you mind, now I'm yours to choose

And I know
The scariest part is letting go
Let my love be the light that guides you home

And I know
The scariest part is letting go
'Cause love is a ghost you can't control
I promise you the truth can't hurt us now
So let the words slip out of your mouth"

[tv echo]

A bit of nostalgia in these dark times - I came across this fan vid and thought it encapsulated the original Team Arrow perfectly...

 

Team Arrow: Oliver, Diggle, Felicity
Published on Apr 17, 2014, by Pelėda Pukuota

[Guest]

I've been thinking about the Raylicity today and preparing myself for the worst and I don't know about anyone else but I hope this relationship is just a weird case of transference on Felicity's part. Her flirting and fixing his injuries and eventually being in a relationship with this Oliver-lite is just creepy on all levels. 

 

MAKE IT STOP.

[jay741982]

See thats what I think too Felicity is liking Ray cause he's oliver lite

[Danny Franks]

I've been thinking about the Raylicity today and preparing myself for the worst and I don't know about anyone else but I hope this relationship is just a weird case of transference on Felicity's part. Her flirting and fixing his injuries and eventually being in a relationship with this Oliver-lite is just creepy on all levels. 

 

MAKE IT STOP.

 

Most temporary love interests tend to be 'lite' versions of the real love interest, it seems. But by the sounds of it Arrow writers are not at all familiar with the word 'subtlety', and so they're just flat out throwing anvils at the audience every time 50 Shades is on the screen. 

 

Honestly, even when I decided to fuck this show off because I'm too old to give a shit about love triangle drama, I never thought it would get this bad. I mean, this crap has to take some sort of special effort, right? To annoy so many people, so much, and to continue doing it? I like making bad predictions of dumb shit that I hope writers wouldn't ever stoop to, but with this show, I feel like anything I came up with would be seriously lowballing their potential.

[Password]

Eh I've been side eyeing Felicity's interaction with Ray since she accepted his job offer all "I want more out of life". Still trying to see how that's working out.

I've accepted everything she does with a hint of " they need her to react like this". It really !ales things easier for me

I like making bad predictions of dumb shit that I hope writers wouldn't ever stoop to, but with this show, I feel like anything I came up with would be seriously lowballing their potential.

Pretty much everything you've predicted has come true actually. You scare me.

[Danny Franks]

Pretty much everything you've predicted has come true actually. You scare me.

 

I scare myself a little too. But there's also a weird, perverse pleasure in realising I can come up with the shittiest, most terrible ideas for just what should not happen... and then it turns out to be exactly what the writers said, 'hey, this is a great idea!' about.

 

I think I predicted 50 Shades as Felicity's plus one for the wedding too, and it looks like that might be coming to pass. I'd also have predicted no dance for Oliver and Felicity, which is true because it turns out Oliver can't dance (like fuck he can't dance! Moira Queen's baby boy would have been waltzing women out of their knickers since he was about sixteen).

[foreverevolving]

Oliver can't dance (like fuck he can't dance! Moira Queen's baby boy would have been waltzing women out of their knickers since he was about sixteen).

That's not the writers, that's Amell himself who claims that he can't dance therefore neither can oliver. I see no issue with that not everyone can dance. It is quite possible that he did several classes and Moira realized very quickly that for the sake of the family reputation it is best to let it be.

[TanyaKay]

I scare myself a little too. But there's also a weird, perverse pleasure in realising I can come up with the shittiest, most terrible ideas for just what should not happen... and then it turns out to be exactly what the writers said, 'hey, this is a great idea!' about.

 

I think I predicted 50 Shades as Felicity's plus one for the wedding too, and it looks like that might be coming to pass. I'd also have predicted no dance for Oliver and Felicity, which is true because it turns out Oliver can't dance (like fuck he can't dance! Moira Queen's baby boy would have been waltzing women out of their knickers since he was about sixteen).

 

But he wanted to dance with Felicity back in 2x08 ... and she shot him down because she was kinda miffed with him ... I refuse to believe that either Oliver or Stephen cannot dance.

 

I generally do not hate Ray as much as other people do but putting him in Dyla wedding as Felicity's plus 1 is next level cruelty by the writers. I mean Oliver is wearing a tux and probably suspenders under that tux ... he should not have to suffer through this when he is looking this pretty!

[apinknightmare]

But he wanted to dance with Felicity back in 2x08 ... and she shot him down because she was kinda miffed with him ... I refuse to believe that either Oliver or Stephen cannot dance.

 

He didn't want to dance with her - he asked her if she wanted to so he could reveal that he invited Barry. 

 

But I agree about the suspenders, THIS IS A TRAVESTY

[Carrie Ann]

Noooooo, the suspenders. If we can't have a dance, can we just...have a moment where maybe Felicity sort of falls into him and grabs onto the suspenders to get her balance?

[jay741982]

I think Felicity and Oliver will be Eye fucking/Giving woobie faces at each other

[calliope1975]

 

But he wanted to dance with Felicity back in 2x08 ... and she shot him down because she was kinda miffed with him ... I refuse to believe that either Oliver or Stephen cannot dance.

 

I generally do not hate Ray as much as other people do but putting him in Dyla wedding as Felicity's plus 1 is next level cruelty by the writers. I mean Oliver is wearing a tux and probably suspenders under that tux ... he should not have to suffer through this when he is looking this pretty!

 

To deny me suspenders Oliver is just cruel. I don't think swaying back and forth is dancing, per say, which is what Oliver and Felicity would be doing. Or not, since TIIC won't let me have nice things. He's not going to bust out in the jive or anything.

[TanyaKay]

To deny me suspenders Oliver is just cruel. I don't think swaying back and forth is dancing, per say, which is what Oliver and Felicity would be doing. Or not, since TIIC won't let me have nice things. He's not going to bust out in the jive or anything.

 

I don't want them to break into salsa ... just hold each other, sway and some eye banging on the side .... I don't want a lot, just a little.

[apinknightmare]

Noooooo, the suspenders. If we can't have a dance, can we just...have a moment where maybe Felicity sort of falls into him and grabs onto the suspenders to get her balance?

 

Maybe the suspenders pop off and start a domino effect of things falling down, maybe they don't....

[statsgirl]

I disagree, I don't want them holding onto each other or popping suspenders or anything like that.  Because they could have had each other if they weren't idiots and Idiocy doesn't count in my book as a justification for "star-crossed".  For all the crap that I hated about two seasons of Castle & Beckett, at least they never made woobie eyes at each other while with other partners that they chose to be with.

 

I mean, this crap has to take some sort of special effort, right? To annoy so many people, so much, and to continue doing it?

No special effort at all as far as I can tell. They seem to really believe this is what the audience wants to see.

[tv echo]

Quotes that seem relevant to Oliver and Felicity's relationship...

 

• The EPs seem to belong to this school of thought (I don't necessarily agree with it): "I see when men love women. They give them but a little of their lives. But women when they love give everything."  (Oscar Wilde)

 

• This quote applies to both Oliver and Felicity whenever they interact with each other: "When a woman is talking to you, listen to what she says with her eyes." (Victor Hugo)

 

• Maybe this is how Felicity felt for awhile when she found out that Oliver had 'died' (if she was prone to emotional exaggeration): "I was born when you kissed me. I died when you left me. I lived a few weeks while you loved me." (Humphrey Bogart)

 

• Keep your eye on the fern - as long as the fern is alive, then hope is alive for Oliver and Felicity.  "We've got this gift of love, but love is like a precious plant. You can't just accept it and leave it in the cupboard or just think it's going to get on by itself. You've got to keep watering it. You've got to really look after it and nurture it." (John Lennon)  As long as Felicity keeps watering the fern, then hope is alive.

 

Unfortunately, I think we're in for a long period of suffering - making me think of this scene from Veronica Mars:

Logan: Come on, ...I thought our story was epic, you know, you and me.
Veronica: Epic how?
Logan: Spanning years and continents. Lives ruined, bloodshed. EPIC. But summer's almost here, and we won't see each other at all. And then you leave town... and then it's over.
Veronica: Logan...
Logan: I'm sorry about last summer. You know, if I could do it over...
Veronica: Come on. Ruined lives? Bloodshed? You really think a relationship should be that hard?
Logan: No one writes songs about the ones that come easy.

Edited January 30, 2015 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Ok, as a non-Olicity shipper I am really starting to get annoyed by this dramatic shift in the Olicity dynamic this season. For 2 years, Oliver was more or less completely oblivious to Felicity whereas her feelings for him were clear as day and now this season, Oliver has suddenly turned into this emo, puddle of mush whilst Felicity has become an unattainable ice queen, who rebuffs him over and over and over again. Maybe if the show had build to this organically, it wouldn't seem so jarring to me, but now it feels like the writers completely changed the writing for these 2 characters just so they can force this (IMO) unwatchable will-they-won't-they dynamic onto the audience. 

 

I'm definitely in the minority in this forum for thinking the show is actually handling Olicity better than their other storylines these season. I did a rewatch during the break and I thought their story flowed much better. Even the awkwardness and stiltedness of the first 3 eps made sense. I don't see a dramatic shift in their interaction. There's a change, definitely. Entirely expected after the big date. But I'm not seeing this Oliver that has turned into a puddle of mush. I see a conflicted man who is in love and wants to be with the woman he loves but because of what's happened to him in the past (the 5 years on the Island, his previous relationships) is stopping himself to be with her. Also, I think he's scared shit because he's never actually had the kind of relationship he knows he'll have with Felicity. He doesn't think he knows how to do that. Silly boy.

 

With Felicity, the writers have peeled back a little more of her layers and we now have a fuller picture of her abandonment issues. Her father left her, her first love "died" because of something she did, and Oliver, her quiet dream, backed away after the first sign of trouble. Ice queen? No, just the opposite, I think. I know Felicity loves Oliver because I've seen their relationship grow organically over 2+ seasons. But Felicity feels too much, and when you feel too much, the pain is magnified. She has lost important people in her life. Can't blame the girl for trying to protect her heart. My only complaint right now is the lack of POV from Felicity, which is creating an imbalance in the storytelling and may be unfairly moving everybody over to Oliver's side. Also, it creates a vacuum that forces viewers to have to guess what's going on in her head and those guesses are probably not correct.

 

About the will-they-won't-they thing, I usually am not a fan of them, but these time it works for me because at the same time it develops both Felicity and Oliver. We've seen some semblance of personal growth because of their relationship/nonrelationship. Oliver admitted he didn't want to die alone in the lair. A small step, but a move forward (love that he echoes Felicity's words when he tells Digg that, underscores that it's because of her that he's thinking that). Felicity is trying to figure out her life, if she's going to let it just revolve around Oliver and his mission. She made one realization the other night. It's not HIS mission. It's theirs. Another step. The writers are moving them toward each other slowly, but I think, surely. Will there be obstacles? Hell yeah, all 6'3" of Ray Palmer.

 

Am I worried about Lunge 2.0? Eh, not so much. Not because I don't think it'll happen. It probably will. But I'll wait until after seeing it before raging about it.

 

Sorry I rambled. Not even sure this makes a lot of sense. But there are a lot of things I'm really fed up with about "Arrow" right now. Olicity is not it.

[wonderwall]

I feel as though people are only miffed about the shift in Oliver/Felicity's relationship because their relationship used to be one of the only few bright spots of the show. Now in a season full of bleak darkness and nothing fun or happy, it feels like the Oliver/Felicity drama is becoming too much of a burden/hassle regardless of how much their actions make sense. I feel like if the lighter moments were brought back, then people wouldn't mind that Oliver/Felicity's relationship is less fun and more intense and serious. But because there literally is no light this season (except for the crossover event), people do mind the change in dynamic. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by wonderwall

[Genki]

Also there is a lot of distrust with the writers, they basically lost mine when they killed off Sara and making Thea killer still makes no sense.

 

The plot contrived actions and character interactions are not good either.

[Password]

I've been pretty OK with Olicity in terms of interaction. The writers haven't taken the road I would've wanted but that's totally cool. What I'm seeing is alright, although when Felicity said she wanted more out of life I expected more beside work...maybe she meant for more outside of the foundry but I'm still waiting patiently for "more". Can she get a girlfriend? Pretty pleeease.

It's Raylicity that I throw shade at. I sigh inwardly everytime I think about it. For some reason ep 10 really made me think they wouldn't go there romantically. I thought Ray finally had some insight into Felicity and he was backing away. BOY was I wrong.

[wonderwall]

I would've been perfectly happy if she and Barry started dating :p In fact, I welcome it because they were adorable. So for me, Felicity dating other people isn't the issue. It's the fact that it's Ray who she may date is the issue. I'm just not a fan of that guy because I feel as though he's a non-entity and I don't see the potential in their relationship. If the writers continue to push for a love triangle between Oliver/Felicity/Ray then that would be them writing for plot instead of character and I feel like that would be their first mis-step in terms of writing for Oliver/Felicity they made this season. Maybe not the first, the second. The first being the terrible cliche of Oliver walking in on Ray/Felicity kissing. SMH

[HighHopes]

I would've been perfectly happy if she and Barry started dating :p In fact, I welcome it because they were adorable. 

 

But Felicity and Barry dating wouldn't be fair to Felicity at all, considering he's in love with Iris. Felicity needs/needed to date someone who was putting her first and choosing her. Dating Barry while he was in love with Iris, would be making her a replacement of sorts. (It's the same issue I have with people shipping Felicity/Tommy, Tommy was in love with Laurel). I mean Barry told her in 2x09 that he would be there if she changed her mind, which she sort of did when she went to see him in 3x04 only to find out he's in love with Iris and has been for years. 

 

The Ray character isn't perfect, but right now he is saying "I have feelings for you" not "I could have feelings" and that's what Felicity needs to hear after two seasons of "unthinkable" and half a season of "maybes". 

[Genki]

Can those feelings be trusted with a 6 month dead Fiancé and really only 3 months of knowing each other?

[wonderwall]

But Felicity and Barry dating wouldn't be fair to Felicity at all, considering he's in love with Iris. Felicity needs/needed to date someone who was putting her first and choosing her. Dating Barry while he was in love with Iris, would be making her a replacement of sorts. (It's the same issue I have with people shipping Felicity/Tommy, Tommy was in love with Laurel). I mean Barry told her in 2x09 that he would be there if she changed her mind, which she sort of did when she went to see him in 3x04 only to find out he's in love with Iris and has been for years. 

 

The Ray character isn't perfect, but right now he is saying "I have feelings for you" not "I could have feelings" and that's what Felicity needs to hear after two seasons of "unthinkable" and half a season of "maybes". 

 

It wouldn't be fair to Barry either because Felicity has feelings for Oliver. But you can also say that it's not fair to Ray for Felicity to string him along considering she has feelings for another man. It's made especially worse when we know that he just lost another woman he loves not 5 months ago. I guess for me it's just that I just don't get Ray. Last week, Ray was essentially reprimanding Felicity for mentioning Anna’s name and what she would want (and it was definitely in his place to do so). Now all of a sudden his mission is no longer about Anna? It’s about saving Felicity? LOL Right. 

 

With Barry, at least they're both on the same page. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by wonderwall

[KenyaJ]

What I'm seeing is alright, although when Felicity said she wanted more out of life I expected more beside work...maybe she meant for more outside of the foundry but I'm still waiting patiently for "more". 

 

I think we all did. I mean, the writers described her identity struggle as "Am I more than Oliver's crush object?" And so far, the answer seems to be, "Yes, because I'm Ray's crush object too!" That's really unsatisfying. I wish they'd focus more on her job, and how that's changing her. It would be awesome to see her growing more ambitious, or getting the sense that her day job was becoming equally important to her and causing conflict with Oliver because she couldn't devote herself 100% to TA. But so far, the only purpose of her job is to serve as a conduit for her personal relationship with Ray, and that's certainly not the "more" I was hoping for.

Edited January 30, 2015 by KenyaJ

[HighHopes]

I'm still in the camp that thinks Felicity hasn't accepted/admitted her feelings for Oliver yet. She was close to in 3x01 (up to 2x23 they were 'unthinkable' to her) and then he pulled back, so she once again boxed those feelings up and is trying not to think about them. Admitting she loves Oliver allows her to get hurt, and she's tired of being hurt and being left by men who she loved and who loved her. 

 

So until we hear from her and hear here say "yes I'm in love with Oliver" and stop hearing people tell her how she feels, I think it's fine for her to date whoever. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by HighHopes

[wonderwall]

I'm still in the camp that thinks Felicity hasn't accepted/admitted her feelings for Oliver yet. She was close to in 3x01 (up to 2x23 they were 'unthinkable' to her) and then he pulled back, so she once again boxed those feelings up and is trying not to think about them. Admitting she loves Oliver allows her to hurt, and she's tired of being hurt and being left by men who she loved and who loved her. 

 

So until we hear from her and hear here say "yes I'm in love with Oliver" and stop hearing people tell her how she feels, I think it's fine for her to date whoever. 

 

I think that's an interesting point of view. Do you think that Felicity is somewhat confused as to why she's taking Oliver's death so hard? Or is she just chalking it up to the fact that they were close and not that she was in love with him?

 

I think Felicity kind of knows how she feels about Oliver, I think she knows she loves him, she just doesn't know the depth of that love. The only reason why I think so is because of what she told Barry on that train when she was heading back to Starling City. What Felicity told Barry was obviously how she feels about Oliver. She has quiet dreams about him, she lingers on him when he's not looking, the smiles she fakes to play the part because she knows her feelings for him. She knows she yearns for him. It's just that she's not as vocal about it because she's scared. 

 

This is why I think that it's unfair of Felicity to be with anyone. It's unfair to Ray, and most importantly, it's unfair to herself. I guess that's why I'd like it if she got into a relationship where both of the participants were on equal footing. And Barry is just that. A person who's on equal footing with Felicity in terms of where they are emotionally. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by wonderwall

[Password]

I'm still in the camp that thinks Felicity hasn't accepted/admitted her feelings for Oliver yet. She was close to in 3x01 (up to 2x23 they were 'unthinkable' to her) and then he pulled back, so she once again boxed those feelings up and is trying not to think about them. Admitting she loves Oliver allows her to get hurt, and she's tired of being hurt and being left by men who she loved and who loved her. 

 

So until we hear from her and hear here say "yes I'm in love with Oliver" and stop hearing people tell her how she feels, I think it's fine for her to date whoever.

You may be onto something about not admitting to herself that she's in love with Oliver. If it were the case it may hit her like a sack of nikels when she does realise.

I'm not against her dating, it's the brilliance of the writers for WHOM she is dating. I don't know why they've given him so many characteritics that Oliver has. Billionaire, wants to save the world via vigilante-ing, has a tragic (albeit lite in comparison) past of a lost loved one, DOES THE SALMON LADDER. I think I just realised how much I truly hate that he does that.

Funny I just described pretty much any billionaire in comics. Am I over thinking it or does it really seem like they've Single White Male'd Oliver? If not, then a lot of what I see is transference for Felicity. That incredible speech comes to mind.

[dtissagirl]

Funny I just described pretty much any billionaire in comics. Am I over thinking it or does it really seem like they've Single White Male'd Oliver? If not, then a lot of what I see is transference for Felicity. That incredible speech comes to mind.

It's a super weird case of the writing SWMale-ing Oliver. I mean. I'm assuming Crazy Eyes doesn't know he's emulating Oliver in as many superficial characteristics as possible, but maybe his long game is stalking Oliver via Felicity, what do I know?

[Password]

I mean it has to be intentional right? I can definitely get behind Felicity liking men who try to make a difference. But there's too many things"QC must turn into something else" for it to be coincidence. It's the writers doing, don't think Ray knows about Oliver at all.

What are they showing me?

[HighHopes]

I think that's an interesting point of view. Do you think that Felicity is somewhat confused as to why she's taking Oliver's death so hard? Or is she just chalking it up to the fact that they were close and not that she was in love with him?

 

I think Felicity kind of knows how she feels about Oliver, I think she knows she loves him, she just doesn't know the depth of that love. The only reason why I think so is because of what she told Barry on that train when she was heading back to Starling City. What Felicity told Barry was obviously how she feels about Oliver. She has quiet dreams about him, she lingers on him when he's not looking, the smiles she fakes to play the part because she knows her feelings for him. She knows she yearns for him. It's just that she's not as vocal about it because she's scared. 

 

This is why I think that it's unfair of Felicity to be with anyone. It's unfair to Ray, and most importantly, it's unfair to herself. I guess that's why I'd like it if she got into a relationship where both of the participants were on equal footing. And Barry is just that. A person who's on equal footing with Felicity in terms of where they are emotionally. 

 

Felicity loves Oliver, but she also loves Diggle. She's a caring person, and she lost someone who was more than a friend, but she "didn't know what they were". I think she's hurting over losing the possibility of ever finding out what they could have been, but if she admits she loved him (especially after everything that happened with Cooper was only 2 months ago) she opens herself up to more hurt. They never fully got that chance, and now the never will, so she has to move on and not think about all of the "what ifs". 

 

I think she knows she had (has) feelings for Oliver, but like you said, she's not ready to accept the depth of those feelings. The conversation she had with Barry is the only time we have heard from her how she may possibly feel, and even then it wasn't 100% clear that she was all in, in love with Oliver. She did have dreams about him, but they were never possible dreams ("talk about you and me, I mean. Unthinkable"). 

 

I think that if Oliver hadn't pulled back in 3x01, she wouldn't have at all. She was in, and she was ready to admit those feelings. But he pulled back, and she got hurt and she boxed them up again and she's terrified of opening that box again. Because she did once already, and it lasted 2 days and afterwards Oliver would barely look at her (3x02). 

[Password]

I think one thing we did learn from The Secret Origins episode was that Felicity picks herself up and moves on. Cooper returning must have BEEN massively taxing because if she can box her feelings for Oliver, she most definitely did for Cooper. And her dad would've been the first box best left sealed.

I just don't think a relationship with anyone right now would be a brilliant idea tbh. They screwed the pooch by killing Oliver for Raylicity imo, and given the emotional upheaval she's had for really 4 months, nothing healthy will come of it.

[dtissagirl]

I mean it has to be intentional right? I can definitely get behind Felicity liking men who try to make a difference. But there's too many things"QC must turn into something else" for it to be coincidence. It's the writers doing, don't think Ray knows about Oliver at all.

What are they showing me?

I think they wanted to make a funny: Felicity has a type. Except, oops, the two dudes she previously showed interest in, Barry and Oliver, are nothing alike, so the EPs merged them into the abominable bugeyed-man. Edited January 30, 2015 by dancingnancy