Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Starfish35]

The problem chicken (Laurel/Oliver) most definitely came before the egg (Olicity) in this case. People went looking for another romantic option for Oliver because Lauriver fell flat out of the gate.

This exactly. I'm curious - has there ever been another show whether the primary lead character pairing was so soundly rejected pretty much from day one? I can't think of any myself, but my experience is far from comprehensive. I know Clana was greatly disliked, but it seemed to me that came over time, and mostly due to the writers' refusal to let it die a natural death. It wasn't like this.

[dtissagirl]

People liked Chloe better than Lana from the start [and for all purposes at the beginning, she WAS the teenage version of Lois], and shipped Chloe with Clark from the pilot. So in S2 they gave Chloe a terrible storyline in which she betrayed Clark by giving info on him to Lionel Luthor. This was clearly set up to see if fans would turn on Chloe and warm up to Lana, but it never happened.

 

The Arrow showrunners are certainly aware that they're way past the point of trying to make Felicity in anyway betray Oliver, so it's not like they can make the audience turn on Felicity. Giving her a love interest is probably their only choice. These are the guys who think it's okay for sisters to swap a dude back and forth, so I wouldn't be surprised if their rationale is -- if Felicity is dating someone else, Oliver might be jealous, but "because of the life that I lead" thinks that's better for Felicity than him, and goes back to Laurel, 'cause, you know, Laurel by then will be able to hold her own in a fight because Black Canary.

Edited June 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Password]

The Arrow showrunners are certainly aware that they're way past the point of trying to make Felicity in anyway betray Oliver, so it's not like they can make the audience turn on Felicity. Giving her a love interest is probably their only choice. These are the guys who think it's okay for sisters to swap a dude back and forth, so I wouldn't be surprised if their rationale is -- if Felicity is dating someone else, Oliver might jealous, but "because of the life that I lead" thinks it's better for Felicity than him, and goes back to Laurel, 'cause, you know, Laurel by then will be able to hold her own in a fight because Black Canary.

 

Hahahaha I'm so done with "cause, you know, Laurel by then will be able to hold her own in a fight because Black Canary." That is such epic reasoning I'm sure the writers are following it.

 

If Felicity betrayed Oliver I would defend her up and down and find a way to blame Oliver. Such is the magnitude of not only my love for her character but my dislike for Oliver.

[Starfish35]

People liked Chloe better than Lana from the start [and for all purposes at the beginning, she WAS the teenage version of Lois], and shipped Chloe with Clark from the pilot.

Well both Chlark and Clex were more popular than Clana it seemed like (there really is no Arrow equivalent for Clex I suppose), and Clana really was a bad example on my part to use, since it was never intended to be an end-game pairing, unlike Lauriver. But I guess I don't really remember the hate being as intense toward Lana or Clana until the later years, unlike what's happened with Laurel and Lauriver. But that might be just my memory.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Starfish35

[Orion]

I don't watch a ton of TV but my guess is that if any other couples failed as terribly as Lauriver we wouldn't remember them. Either they would have been recast after the pilot because of the chemistry/acting issues or they would have crashed and burned after one season.  I guess because KC was the CW's choice they wouldn't recast her and Arrow had a lot of other things going for it and by the end of S1 had added Felicity to fill the female love interest vacuum.

 

 

 

 

 

If Felicity betrayed Oliver I would defend her up and down and find a way to blame Oliver. Such is the magnitude of not only my love for her character but my dislike for Oliver.

 

The same for me. At the end of day I'm in this for Felicity and I want her to have Oliver because she wants him. I would never buy she would betray him so I think I would just roll my eyes at any storyline about that. I can see them creating a situation where Oliver "thinks" she betrayed him. That could be interesting but I think to much of her to ever go alone with a true betrayal storyline.

[Tangerine]

Yes but Chuck and Blair were so much more fun to watch. I won't life, Chair was a messed up relationship but I couldn't get enough of them.

 

I never watched Gossip Girl, but my friends said that it was an incredibly toxic relationship but at least the actors were very good and had charm/chemistry together. Can't say that's entirely the case with Lauriver...

[Password]

When does the geeky, quirky girl ever get the dark, brooding but especially good looking guy? This is the moment! And it's perfect because it's believable.

[dtissagirl]

Well both Chlark and Clex were more popular than Clana it seemed like (there really is no Arrow equivalent for Clex I suppose), and Clana really was a bad example on my part to use, since it was never intended to be an end-game pairing, unlike Lauriver. But I guess I don't really remember the hate being as intense toward Lana or Clana until the later years, unlike what's happened with Laurel and Lauriver. But that might be just my memory.

 

Yeah, while Lana and Clark/Lana were rejected by a big part of the audience, I think it never translated to hating Kristin Kreuk -- she always sounded level-headed in interviews, and it helped that she and Allison Mack were BFF. And no one could criticize KK's acting choices without having to criticize Tom Welling as well, so. It was BAD for Lana fans and Clark/Lana shippers, but I guess it's worse for Laurel and Laurel/Oliver fans.

 

When does the geeky, quirky girl ever get the dark, brooding but especially good looking guy? This is the moment! And it's perfect because it's believable.

 

Chloe ended up getting that guy on Smallville, he was called Oliver Queen and everything. :)

 

 

I really wonder if the Arrow PTB regret the backstory they gave Laurel/Oliver in hindsight. OTOH, they keep adding to it -- Sara telling Oliver that Laurel stole him from her, Oliver getting the baby mama pregnant, etc -- but every new information makes their relationship pre-island look awful. Oliver was a cheating douche, and Laurel was... determined to get the life she planned out regardless of how demeaning it could be? I guess I cannot really figure out what was her motivation.

Edited June 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Password]

I can't figure out why the writers think these barriers are not insurmountable. Even if Laurel and Oliver work it out it leaves a sour taste in my mouth as a viewer because I don't understand it. There's too much that I know for me to hand wave their relationship.

Hmm was the Oliver in Smallville as angsty as our beloved Mr Queen? But yes, the geeky girl did end up with the billionaire handsome boy.

Edited June 16, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[Starfish35]

Hmm was the Oliver in Smallville as angsty as our beloved Mr Queen?

ETA: Never mind - I don't know what I'm talking about - LOL. I only saw Oliver in season six. It was foolish of me to respond considering. But I'll stand by preferring SA's Oliver to JH's Oliver, just based on what I saw.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

Hmm was the Oliver in Smallville as angsty as our beloved Mr Queen? But yes, the geeky girl did end up with the billionaire handsome boy.

 

Well, it was Smallville!angst -- which most of the time was just plain goofy -- but he was. He even tried to kill himself. And then Chloe set up a crazy plan to get him out of his funk that involved hitting his car with a truck, attacking him with rabid dogs and stealing all his money and framing him for murder. And then after he got his mojo back he figured out it was Chloe masterminding everything... and then he fell in love? Hee. [i'll forever defend the last 2 seasons of Smallville as legit entertainment mostly because of Chloe and Oliver, true story. *g*]

Edited June 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Starfish35]

Hahaha ok I concede the point. I did not know any of that. ;) When I was watching it was more Action!Oliver and Brooding!Clark.

[dtissagirl]

Getting back on topic: since Amell said the ILY will be solved fairly soon in the season, I really hope that the one putting the brakes is Felicity, and not Oliver [again!]. I really believe it has to be her choice not to be in a relationship with him at this point.

[statsgirl]

My money's on Oliver being the one to put the brakes on because of that whole 'because of what I do' thing. If it's Felicity,

it kind of nullifies bringing on a new character for her because there's no advancement for Oliver's character.

 

 

by the end of S1 had added Felicity to fill the female love interest vacuum

I don't think Felicity was brought on to be the female love interest; I think she was brought on because the character clicked with people and she lightened up a dour Oliver.  This may also be why Olicity works better than Lauriver, because Felicity, like Sara, has her own role on the show independent of being Oliver's love interest while Laurel doesn't. She should, she's a lawyer and could be useful in terms of the overall show, but they haven't found a niche for her yet.

Edited June 17, 2014 by statsgirl

[Orion]

 

 

I don't think Felicity was brought on to be the female love interest; I think she was brought on because the character clicked with people and she lightened up a dour Oliver.  This may also be why Olicity works better than Lauriver, because Felicity, like Sara, has her own role on the show independent of being Oliver's love interest while Laurel doesn't. She should, she's a lawyer and could be useful in terms of the overall show, but they haven't found a niche for her yet.

 

You're right I phrased that wrong but I agree with what you had to say. I meant that Felicity had filled the love interest vacuum in viewers eyes.  I know for me, personally, that let me overlook the Laurvier problem and get back into the show after I gave up on it pre-Felicity.

 

That quote "because of what I do, I can't be with someone I could really care about." is going to have to be explained away early on in S3 because it would apply to all love interest. SA got around it with Sara by saying she could take care of herself but for any other relationship, unless they are going to keep all the LIs in flashbacks, because what does that say about the person Oliver is dating. If the EPs do Laureliver wouldn't that apply to her? She's not in a position to "take care of herself" anymore than Felicity is, at least not yet. I would think they would have to have Oliver come to terms with it and find another reason for him to hold back with Felicity.

[BkWurm1]

Hmm was the Oliver in Smallville as angsty as our beloved Mr Queen?

 

He found out Lex Luthor's father killed his parents so he in turn killed Lex Luthor (I guess since Lex had already killed his father? It was ok though cause Lex's dad from another dimension gave his heart to revive his son's cloned body.)  Then when Oliver tried to save Clark from a stupid ass plan that would have ended with Clark dead it ended instead with the fake Jimmy Olsen getting killed which Oliver blamed himself for because he was the one that hired Chloe's junkie ex husband plus then when he had a chance to earn Clark's forgiveness, he was not able to keep Lois from turning into a zombie, so Clark yelled at him and said he wasn't a hero and that's when Oliver did the suicidal thing that Chloe had to snap him out of.

 

Yeah, that all happened.  It makes the mirakuru plot look down right gritty and realistic

 

Getting back on topic: since Amell said the ILY will be solved fairly soon in the season, I really hope that the one putting the brakes is Felicity, and not Oliver [again!]. I really believe it has to be her choice not to be in a relationship with him at this point.

 

This was my thought as well but maybe its more of a mutual thing?  Or maybe Felicity finds something that seems to confirm Oliver's feelings but he doesn't know she knows and its then that she chooses not to risk what they had right now for what maybe could be.  It wouldn't have to have Oliver in a place where Felicity is rejecting him, just put her in a place where she isn't willing to risk the now at least not now.  

Edited June 17, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Ace19]

I had a coughing fit when I read this.

 

I agree that just the fact that Laurel, a character that has no purpose on the show, is still there is enough proof to me that Lauriver is not just on the cards, but has never been off the table. That and a healthy dose of fear/anxiety.

I think the EP's said this.  But in reality and this is taking in the media frenzy post the finale.  It seemed ALL of the media reviewers saw that it was Felicity that brought him out of his darkest hour, not Laurel.  That scene between Oliver/Laurel was seen as unmoving, considering that Oliver did not react until Laurel stated that Blood knew about his mother's death.  Fine.   But everyone, and I mean from media to audience, took note of Felicity stating that she believed in him in the Clocktower.  Ultimately, the media even stated that Felicity was his "moral compass."  

 

I think what I'm reading is that people are putting much weight into the words of the EP's during a particular episode.  While the media, which is actually something that Guggenheim, Berlanti, and Kreisberg watch and read, could not speak enough about the Clocktower scene or the mansion scene.  Ultimately, the scene with Oliver/Laurel was lost and critically not given ANY recognition by the media.  Actually when that episode aired, people spoke more about the scene between Oliver/Felicity/Diggle in the new lair than about Oliver/Laurel.

 

Honestly, I think the writers and EP's are trying very hard to make Laurel relevant, but she is continuously trumped by not only Felicity's character...but the depth in which EBR goes in her scenes and delivery.   For instance, when the EP's were staying that the scene between Laurel and Oliver in the early mid-season episodes, were a blimp...no one talked about them.  But people spoke about Felicity/Oliver/Barry Allen and they spoke about the Felicity scenes in the Time of Death episode.  Ultimately, people hinted heavily that EBR is amazing at doing drama and comedy.  

 

As I said, this is to see where Laurel fits and what works, and every time they try something they hit a wall.  

[Password]

I think EBR does comedy very well, but KC can also pull dead pan off. But seeing as comedy is covered by Felicity, Laurel's bitch spell was something I got into. The EPs and writers seem unwilling to make Laurel that character that I think the audience would enjoy. I wonder what the EPs think that Felicity and indeed EBR is more talked about than Laurel for anything really. Love interest, character, brains. What does Laurel contribute to the story that isn't covered by other characters?

[quarks]

I wonder what the EPs think that Felicity and indeed EBR is more talked about than Laurel for anything really.

 

 

I think we've seen exactly what they think: they increased Felicity's screentime.

[Password]

I think we've seen exactly what they think: they increased Felicity's screentime.

 

By that assumption we have nothing to worry about going into s3. Except, Laurel. She's still there. Le sigh.

[dtissagirl]

E! Online is confirming they filmed [but subsequently cut] the Oliver/Felicity kiss in the finale:

   

sorayaesrtela: a lot of rumors that a #Olicity kiss was cut from season finale. Could you find the truth?
We can confirm that there was in fact a kiss filmed between Oliver and Felicity for Arrow's season two finale that ultimately hit the cutting room floor. But it was pre-reveal that Ollie's "I love you" was just a ploy (But was it really?!) to trick Slade, so that doesn't really count, right? Right?!

 

Source [beware! Spoilers for many many shows]: http://www.eonline.com/news/551649/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-american-horror-story-fargo-pretty-little-liars-arrow-and-more

[Luckylyn]

In the beginning of Season 1 the chemistry between Laurel and Oliver was so lacking that shipper discussion mostly was about how Oliver had more chemistry with his sister than with Laurel.   So Felicity showed up and gave shippers the possible pairing that they were looking for.   If Felicity didn't come along, it would have been someone else because the vibe I was getting was that people wanted to ship Oliver/anyone who isn't Laurel.  Still, Olicity really sparked something and even giving Oliver other options (Sara, Helena...) Felicity/Oliver still have popularity.  This was a happy accident that I think really helped the show because Felicity isn't just a love interest but an integral member of the team.  If she an Oliver never get together, Felicity still has a place in the show.  Laurel on the other hand seems like a square peg being forced into a round hole.  

[Morrigan2575]

E! Online is confirming they filmed [but subsequently cut] the Oliver/Felicity kiss in the finale:

 

Yep, saw that.  I'm glad they cut it because it wouldn't have felt right.  

[calliope1975]

Glad they cut the kiss, but again, I'm gonna need to see that footage. For science purposes.

[KirkB]

Strictly speaking its not Oliver and Thea who had the ridiculous chemistry it's Stephen and Willa. What I don't understand is how Stephen and Katie, who are supposed to be the romantic leads, don't. I was under the impression, perhaps inaccurately, that shows usually test actors together for stuff like that. So did they not do it with Stephen and Katie for some reason, or were they aware of the lack of chemistry but didn't care?

[Velocity23]

Katie was casted first. She was consider the big star of Arrow and everybody was saying that she would be great.  And they just didn't do chemistry test. I guess they were under impression pretty people = chemistry

[Starfish35]

No, actually Stephen was cast first. I know that because I thought I'd read that Katie was cast first too but when I checked news articles I turned out to be wrong about that. But there was no chemistry tests done then, for whatever reason.

ETA: Here's the casting announcement on TVLine. It looks like Stephen Amell, Susanna Thompson, and David Ramsey had already been announced.

http://tvline.com/2012/02/15/katie-cassidy-arrow-cw/

Edited June 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[Velocity23]

Ahh guess the excitment for Cassidy was just greater than Stephen. I remember at the time everybody being excited for Cassidy and saying she will be big!

[Starfish35]

Judging from the comments on the article I linked, that's true. :) Amazing how fast things can change.

[Velocity23]

It actually annoyed me a bit and how everybody was saying Justin Hartley is the only Green Arrow. Made me more supportive of Stephen *shrugs*

[Morrigan2575]

Strictly speaking its not Oliver and Thea who had the ridiculous chemistry it's Stephen and Willa. What I don't understand is how Stephen and Katie, who are supposed to be the romantic leads, don't. I was under the impression, perhaps inaccurately, that shows usually test actors together for stuff like that. So did they not do it with Stephen and Katie for some reason, or were they aware of the lack of chemistry but didn't care?

 

They've pretty much enacted a strict policy of doing chemistry tests on every possible romantic partner since.  Caity/Katrina, Caity/Stephen, Stephen/Celina, Emily/Grant and Grant/Iris' actress.

[statsgirl]

Laurel Brown suggesting at what point the cut kiss might have happened and why it was cut.  http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/arrow_oliver_felicity_kiss_season_2_finale-2014-06

[Danny Franks]

Glad they cut the kiss, but again, I'm gonna need to see that footage. For science purposes.

 

Now they've confirmed it exists, it would be wise for them to include it as a DVD extra. Or at least not to act like assholes like the Castle people did, when they admitted that there was a lot more footage to Castle and Beckett's first consummation than was ever shown. And then they showed it to a select few at some event and told the rest of the audience, 'you'll never get to see it. So don't even ask.' One of the, admittedly countless, reasons that I stopped watching that show. Showrunners who act like entitled dicks and feel their audience is there to serve them.

 

I do agree that it was better to not include the kiss in the episode, though. The moment was strong enough, and I think EBR and SA sold it beautifully. A kiss would have been overkill, and it definitely would have been cruel. Funnily enough, I don't see Oliver as being at all comfortable with the idea of kissing Felicity right now. Not because he isn't interested, but because he's not that bad a guy, and he can see she has feelings for him, and he knows he has feelings for her.

 

One thing that seems pertinent is that you can only do a 'first' once. And getting a first kiss wrong is a killer. Oh, in real life it's recoverable, but on a TV show, with 'shippers who have expectations and feel passionately about the characters? If it feels inappropriate or if the moment doesn't quite work, it's tough. That was it. That was the first kiss/sex/declaration of love/whatever for the two characters. Something else Castle ballsed up on, by the way.

[Password]

To me the kiss would have been too much and too far. I'm glad it was cut, and I would love to see it, but I don't think they will show it. Actually someone mentioned it as being seen as a flashback in s3 but for people who don't read things online it would kind of be like "What the hell? They kissed and we don't know?"

 

I imagine they're saving any epic first kiss scene for s3 or 4.

[tv echo]

Cutting the O/F kiss was the right move.  Too much and would've hurt Felicity after the reveal.  However, no kiss was a big clue that it was a fake-out.

Ahh guess the excitment for Cassidy was just greater than Stephen. I remember at the time everybody being excited for Cassidy and saying she will be big!

Not doing a chemistry test for the two supposed romantic leads was a huge mistake.  I wonder if KC even had to do a screen test or audition for the part of Laurel?  Because I also think she was miscast if Laurel is supposed to be this warm and compassionate lawyer who's a cop's daughter.  The Arrow producers probably considered getting KC for their new show a big congratulatory moment and didn't bother with either a chemistry test or a screen test.  I don't remember seeing KC in anything else, but I know she has been in a lot of CW shows and other TV shows, as well as having a bit part in that Liam Neeson movie, Taken.  So she has an extensive resume.

Edited June 18, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Not doing a chemistry test for the two supposed romantic leads was a huge mistake.  I wonder if KC even had to do a screen test or audition for the part of Laurel?

 

Apparently she auditioned, it was a crying scene...guess that explains a lot. But yeah I'm pretty sure that all of the chemistry tests they've done since has been a direct reaction to SA/KC's utter lack of Chemistry YMMV.  

[Password]

You know Chuck and Blair were one of the most unhealthy couples ever. Is it really their chemistry that made people feel more able to hand wave their indiscretions? For me, I tend to roll my eyes whenever Laurel comes on the screen because...she's Laurel. And don't get me started on how uncomfortable I get when Laurel, Oliver and Sara are in the same room. Can a lack of chemistry really do that?

[icandigit]

I think you're right she has two strikes against her. Her character is not entertaining and when she gets around Oliver there is no chemistry. So maybe if they didn't have chemistry, if you liked the character maybe you could root for her to get the guy she wants.

[HighwayFlower]

Chuck and Blair were toxic, but Blair was a snarky and entertaining character. Laurel is just so bland and boring... Her finest moments are when she is being a bitch, and the show just doesn't seem willing to own that.

On another note, she didn't lose her leading lady status to CL or the Black Canary. She lost it to EBR and Felicity. That's what KC needs to worry about.

[Velocity23]

The CW is completely jumping on the Olicity train. They posted this in the social media. I almost feel sorry for KC. Almost lol. Like almost nobody except KC talks about Laurel or promotes her during this hiatus. 

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bqbm2lLCAAAHnXc.jpg:large

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bqbm2n_CIAA6GWr.jpg:large

[wonderwall]

Over from the spoilers discussion: 

The question is, will they use Felicity's

interest in Daniel

to re-open Oliver/Laurel.

If they do go the route where Felicity

is Daniel's love interest

, it still doesn't make me fearful of the writers going down the Oliver/Laurel route again. Felicity/

Daniel

doesn't fix the problem between Laurel/Oliver. Yes, Felicity is where a lot of the audience's attention went to, but that's because Laurel and Oliver/Laurel's storyline and characterization was already broken. I think we've already stated that if Laurel and Lauriver were successful, people wouldn't have paid much attention to Felicity or Oliver/Felicity. 
 
Things that isn't fixed by a new Felicity/

Daniel

dynamic:

• Laurel and Oliver's backstory (aka the Oliver cheating on Laurel... A LOT)
• The constant sister-swapping
• The chemistry between SA and KC
• Laurel not being likable every time she's associated with Oliver
• Character regression (for whenever they do get together)
• The fact that Lauriver adds no real value to the show (regardless of comic lore)

 

Season 2 has made it clear that Oliver has moved on from Laurel, however, it's blatantly obvious that Laurel isn't over Oliver (which imo is one of the most pathetic things ever). You can tell by her change in demeanor when she found out Oliver was the vigilante and her "I've always been drawn to you" and her "I know you better than I know my name" speech. Oliver, instead of becoming a puddle at Laurel's words, it didn't affect him as much as it would've in season 1. 
 
Because of this, going back to Laurel/Oliver would be a terrible mistake because there's no good reason to. It simply doesn't make sense. It made sense why Oliver and Sara got together, but for the life of me I can't find a reason for Oliver and Laurel (in the show) to get together. .Felicity

being with Daniel

doesn't fix their problems, nor will it placate the fans because in the end, Oliver's relationships will be far more important than Felicity's and Digg's. It's a sad truth, but I've learned to deal. So whoever he's with next season will matter.

[statsgirl]

I agree.  I think Oliver/Laurel were dysfunctional from the pre-island times, and the fact that Laurel could have a good relationship with Tommy just emphasizes how bad Laurel was with Oliver.  I could have accepted Sara with Oliver if I hadn't met Felicity first, but not Laurel.

 

And while I wish the show would resist the temptation to re-open Oliver/Laurel once again (hopefully to end it once and for all), I fear they won't.  I'm telling myself I can get through it with enough chocolate and the fast forward button.  And if they do try O/L again, it seems to me that 

when Felicity is involved with another man

would be the time to do it. Otherwise, there's just no reason that I can see to go back there again.

Edited June 19, 2014 by statsgirl

[SmallScreenDiva]

Just finished watching "Crucible" and this is the first time we see Sara and Oliver interact post-Island. I just realized they don't even touch during the entire episode, except for when Oliver took off her wig and mask. I found it weird. No hug, no arm or elbow touch. I felt like there should have been more relief, maybe a little bit more joy(?) on Oliver's side (after the initial surprise) that she was alive. I don't know. I guess I was looking for something that sets up that lunge in 2x13.

[BkWurm1]

No hug, no arm or elbow touch. I felt like there should have been more relief, maybe a little bit more joy(?) on Oliver's side

 

Rewatched Crucible as well and what I took from it was that Oliver did not know this Sara, that how and why she had gained fighting abilities kind of scared him and filled him with guilt.  Combine that with Sara's comment to Sin about no woman suffering at the hands of men and I'm thinking she was raped many times (and boy does that scene on the Amazo hint at that) and that touching was one of those things she didn't casually do anymore.  It wasn't until the very end of the episode that Oliver reached out his hand and she took it. 

 

The subject of home came up here ( I had forgotten that) , this time with the idea that she had to tell her family and regain them.  She ends up not doing that and leaving and then when she does come back, this time to stay, she goes to Oliver when it seems like she doesn't get to get her family back and so for her, the only home she had left was her effed up connection to Oliver. 

 

It actually seems a little less out of left field on rewatch to me.  Oliver would rather she tell her family and have them (Laurel included) never talk to him again than for Sara to go without them any longer.  The trade (going with the idea that Laurel is a friend he wants to keep) feels romantic because of what he's willing to give up (even if it probably would be a win, win IMO)

[wonderwall]

, it's like they don't understand that fan-pandering can go both ways :p 

 

Take Laurel's role in the final 3 episodes... The writers literally had to do everything they could to shoehorn her character into the episodes. How can you tell if she was shoe-horned in? Well nothing would've changed if you took her out of the episodes... Well, maybe Sara would've still been a bit broody, but that's about it. I thoroughly believe that if it wasn't for the need to make laurel look important, team arrow would've cottoned onto Blood and stopped him. Laurel right now, only exists as a reminder of Oliver's past, a past that he's trying to overcome. That's all she's there for. And if L/O does happen, then that would just be pandering to the comic fans and lauriver fans. Other than that, there's no use for Laurel.

 

Now, do the same for Felicity. Would the last 3 episodes be the same without her? Absolutely not. She was integral in making Oliver think smarter, be better, hold onto his morals, as well as be the one to de-mirakuru Slade. If it weren't for her, Oliver wouldn't have considered himself a hero, and would've tried to kill Slade with brute force rather than outfox him and send him to jail.

 

It baffles me that people think the show doesn't need Felicity and that the writers are simply pandering to the olicity fandom. No. It's been made very clear that Oliver and the team need her. If not for her tech skills, then her morality and guiding light. 

[Actionmage]

"These are the guys who think it's okay for sisters to swap a dude back and forth...."

 

To quote The Dixie Chicks, there's your problem. There didn't seem to be anyone around to reality check these folks on how sisters would realistically react to anything the Lance gals have faced. There doesn't seem to be anyone able to currently explain to TPTB that they are insulting women and sending bad messages to younger viewers by letting the swapping seem to continue, with hints at future romantic times with Laurel.

 

To those who say realism has no place in "just" a comic book show, well, why the rush to get mirakuru off-show ( and the faction of folks who decried the use of powers that it brought)? Realism is what grounds the fantastic. Sadly, the Lance sisters' relationship was whole cloth invention and mishandled from the pilot.

 

I was hopeful that Laurel and Ollie could be friends that were so due to all the mess they'd been through and the times between them (good as well as bad), yet I'm seeing a lead character growing in every facet, except with Laurel. In Laurel, I don't see any of what got me excited for the character's potential with and without Oliver. Put the two of them together and it has become toxic. No amount of supposedly lifting Oliver out of his funk can overcome the fact that he never loved her the way she loved him. Given that, that Laurel seems to think she is entitled to Ollie makes her distasteful, to me anyway.

 

As others have noted, that could be a great character beat, since Laurel is not at all the comics' Dinah, so she/ Katie Cassidy shouldn't be tied to making Laurel just so. Apparently the kerfluffle about Anna Gunn on Breaking Bad either hadn't reached TPTB or it scared them off of allowing Laurel to have that voice, to be an unlikable character. As it stands, Laurel is just inconsistent, entitled and (to some) thisclose to unredeemable as a viable character, let alone romantic lead for our leading man. This is coming from a Black Canary comics fan and general Ollie/Dinah fan.

 

I hope that the writers have left room for a friendship for Laurel and Oliver. No matter the flavor ( bitter exes, sad but glad to have the other around  exes, whatever else I'm not covering), there could be a good bit of acting gold to be found in that sort of relationship, if the writers would just let it be a viable option.  (That and Sara as Canary again. Fingers crossed and knock on wood.)

[Password]

I don't really know why the writers thought it would be ok???? And then Sara passing the baton back to Laurel at the end of Unthinkable which made even Laurel confused. It's baffling to be honest because it just makes everyone involved look bad.

Perhaps I'm the only one, but I found it at the least strange that Diggle didn't say a word about Oliver and Sara getting back together and then Oliver going with Sara to the Lance dinner. He's been so vocal about Laurel and Helena that I would've thought he of all people would have been like "Oliver are you doing this again?"

It's probably just how the writers wanted it to pan out.

Edited June 19, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[Actionmage]

I think Dig just plain likes Sara, as opposed to insane Helena (who wants to do better now) and snotty, 'he's the black driver' attituded Laurel. 

 

Sara came in and respected what was in place with the team and found a niche and  was polite to Dig and Felicity. The kicker, imo, for Dig was that there was no jealousy from Sara- about Oliver or a place on the team. She did not try to push Felicity out in order to make room for herself.

 

Helena didn't really want to have anything to do with anyone else and barely tolerated Oliver trying his Henry Higgins out on her. Dig had valid reasons to dislike Helena, but if she came back and treated Dig and Felicity with respect, she'd buy some slack.

 

Laurel, OTOH, has been written as snotty about...lots, but folks 'intruding' on her time with Oliver or not kowtowing to her get a mean girl stare, which I'm sure is meant to convey something to fear/be afraid of.  Dig hasn't been a fan of Laurel's since she tends to rely upon Oliver for help/emotional support/sounding board/whatever while not noticing anything about Oliver's emotional state during any of that time. Sometimes, yes, Oliver hangs out with her to under-the-radar protect her, but in Season 2, it's harder to use that. Diggle sees the frustration that Oliver is experiencing in being unable to help either Lance sister (mirrored in his frustration over his vendetta against Deadshot torpedoing he and Carly as a couple.) Dig sees the pain she causes to Oliver and the Arrow and, like a family member, gets to dislike her for the emotional trauma Oliver has to process. ( 'She hates the vigilante, but wants me, as the Vigilante, to go after a lead on Sebastian Blood!')

 

I will agree that Diggle not voicing his concern about the Lance dinner was a bit 'off', but there wasn't a way for him to talk to Ollie without Sara hearing anything. The way the scene was shot, I'm not sure that adding an overt [Diggle takes Oliver to the side to chat] section would've done any better than David Ramsey sitting back and (probably) barely shaking his head and having a "bad idea, dude" face.

 

As to the writers wanting it that way, I'm not sold. The writing for Sara has been relatively consistent, as compared to Laurel, who can have trouble within an episode keeping consistent. They are, unfortunately, "just" writers. There's a reason for this joke-

 

Did you hear about the Dumb Blonde who thought she'd get ahead in Hollywood by sleeping with the writer?!  (Yes, so much wrong and the writer joke is the least offensive offensive part.)

 

Writers have to tow the company line or they won't be able to bring us golden scenes with Quentin and anyone in the 'verse, or Moira going toe-to-toe with Slade, or anything Felicity, or Oliver/Thea moments. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Perhaps I'm the only one, but I found it at the least strange that Diggle didn't say a word about Oliver and Sara getting back together and then Oliver going with Sara to the Lance dinner. He's been so vocal about Laurel and Helena that I would've thought he of all people would have been like "Oliver are you doing this again?"

 

You're not the only one. I thought the writing for Diggle was a bit off during that middle part of season 2 I consider problematic. Oliver did a number of things during that time that normally Diggle — or Felicity — would have called BS, or at least tried to dissuade him from doing. Or, as in the case of "Blind Spot," Diggle suddenly acting out of character, becoming an advocate for a character and giving him all the benefit of the doubt (Blood) without a real explanation why.

[HighwayFlower]

I didn't find the no touching between Oliver and Sara strange, because I don't think they had that kind of relationship. They were not the couple who was going to be all schmoopy and romantic. They were friends who could understand what each other had been through and I think the sex was just sex, not romantic love, and that's why there was never any jealousy vibe. I really think if Oliver had told her he loved Felicity she would have punched his arm and said go for it.