Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[dtissagirl]

A friend just sent me this link:

http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/imr/theme-week/2015/26/shipping-june-22-june-26-2015

In Media Res is having their Shipping Week this week, wherein they post essays about 'shipping. If you look at the schedule, this upcoming Friday listing might be relevant to your [my] interests:

Friday, June 26, 2015 - Alexis Ingram presents: Captain of the Ship: Stephen Amell’s Legitimization of Non-Canonical Relationships

Edited June 22, 2015 by dancingnancy

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley responded to this fan post about who's to blame for the lack of chemistry between KC and SA (that led to Laurel being removed as Oliver's love interest):

“Losing that because she couldn't generate heat...” Do you ever think that maybe it was the casting of Stephen that couldn't “generate” the heat? I see a lot of people “blaming” Katie for the “fail” of Lauriver. I'm not saying that you are but I'm stating what I see. Like K said in season 1, S didn't give her a lot to work with. His acting isn't that great and probably contributed to their less than “chemistry filled” scenes. And who suffers? The female lead.

Her response: http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/122284202823/losing-that-because-she-couldnt-generate

(Posted Jun 23, 2015 6:02 pm)

Edited June 24, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

I blame Cassidy, more than Amell. Because he has been able to generate some chemistry with all the other women he was paired with Shado, Sara, Helena, McKenna. They weren't all mind blowing chemistry or anything, but there was a certain spark there where you'd see why Oliver would fall into bed with them. With Laurel, there was nothing or maybe even a negative chemistry. 

 

From these past 3 seasons, to me it seems that Oliver always cared more about Sara than Laurel. He always seemed more honest with her even in the flashbacks. It could be that Sara knew exactly what kind of a guy he was and didn't care. While Laurel was living in a fantasy world where Oliver was the perfect boyfriend. 

 

There seemed to be a huge disconnect with how SA and KC were playing their love story. KC was playing like she knew she was going to get the guy so she didn't try very hard while SA was playing it like Oliver felt bad about what he did to Laurel, but he cared more about Sara and fell in love with Felicity. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by Sakura12

[dtissagirl]

I guess I blame both actors equally for the blackhole of suck they create onscreen together, but I blame KC for not trying to do anything different to offset the anti-chem. For example, I liked Laurel/Tommy, but I could see in KC's acting what she thought of the relationship [he was taking advantage, this was a temporary relationship before Laurel ~soulmated with Oliver], so it made it hard to get invested in them. Stephen, otoh, never telegraphed where the story was going in Oliver's other relationships.

Also, this is just my personal impression, but all of S2 and S3, whenever Stephen is in a scene with KC, the vibe I get from him is GET ME AWAY FROM HERE I'M DYING. Here's the theme song:

/belle & sebastian 4eva.

And to be clear, I don't think this has anything to do with how Stephen feels about KC, it has to do with how he feels about Laurel/Oliver. I think in S1, both Stephen and KC were still trying to make it work as a romantic chemistry, but then came 201 and it was clear Stephen had stopped trying. KC, imo, never stopped. It's one of the reasons I think Laurel needs a new LI. So I can stop watching her trying to make chemistry happen where. 1. there isn't, and 2. her scene partner is DOING THE OPPOSITE.

I do think KC got majorly screwed in this. But the cold hard truth is the show is called Arrow, and it's Oliver's journey, and unfortunately, KC got the shaft. I blame the EPs' lack of hindsight [and a screen test] by thinking people would be coolcakes with sister-swapping -- not to mention basing Laurel on Christopher Nolan instead of, you know, DINAH LANCE -- as much as I blame the anti-chemistry for that.

Edited June 24, 2015 by dancingnancy

[DrSpaceman10]

Sorry, wrong thread.

Edited June 24, 2015 by DrSpaceman10

[Chaser]

I get where KC is coming from, still talking up Oliver and Laurel. I certainly understand it from a business perspective. She is coming off her most successful season on the show (she actually has an MVP article to retweet, positive comments on socal media platforms, etc). The character and ship that she probably blames for nuking her TV plans is coming off her/their roughest season. And yet no one is really talking about her or her character. I haven't seen her getting any traction from the media. All those positive comments hasn't translated to twitter trends or fan award nominations. She got a whopping 232 tweets for the TeenChoice awards. She must have more fans then that on twitter/instagram/tumblr and yet that all she got. Oliver and Laurel got zip.

 

EBR/SA maybe getting a tvguide interview, maybe a photoshoot, Larry King is trying to get them on, they are getting free press from E!Online, Teen Choice and now MTV. That's a lot of eyeballs on them.

 

So I don't think a new LI is really going to change how KC approaches Oliver and Laurel. MG said they planned on moving Felicity to romantic interest sometime in S2. I'm willing to bet that was pretty early on in S2 and she was still pushing Oliver and Laurel, still saying Felicity was comic relief and Laurel could take her. She started backing away in S3, but now it looks like she is trying that narrative again.

 

ETA: I don't blame her btw. I really don't. She is looking for her career. It just makes it difficult not to read into some her acting choices. Is this scene off mark because of the writing or because KC wants it to read differently?

Edited June 24, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[BkWurm1]

It just makes it difficult not to read into some her acting choices. Is this scene off mark because of the writing or because KC wants it to read differently?

 

That immediately made me think of how KC played Laurel bringing Oliver to hear her father call off the manhunt for the Arrow.  She played it IMO as girlfriend, not girl friend and it made me very uncomfortable since SA was not going there at all.  

[Starfish35]

That immediately made me think of how KC played Laurel bringing Oliver to hear her father call off the manhunt for the Arrow. She played it IMO as girlfriend, not girl friend and it made me very uncomfortable since SA was not going there at all.

Oh I know!!! If ever I saw heart eyes, it was the way she was looking at him in that scene.

[kismet]

I can't say I feel say I feel bad for KC. She still has a job and she is still top billing. And according to MG she is going to get stuff in s4. I mean its not great that she lost the LI role. But the writers have been struggling with her arc for 3 seasons now, so its not just the LI arc that she/writers have not delivered on. Honestly, I think if she learned to go with the flow more publicly, rather than push her narrative agenda at her public appearances I would have an easier time feeling bad for her. But she feels like a dog with a bone and just won't give it up. If I was her, I would be asking my fans to get me a better arc & a new love interest. She doesn't need to be OQ's LI to have a good arc or role. There are other ways to be an important character that people want to see.

 

Anyway, most of it falls on the writers for the destruction of Lauriver. Jbuffyangel was right when she said that Oliver nuked/torpedoed the relationship by sleeping with Sara. We have talked about this before. There is being noncommittal cheater, and then there is extreme cheating/non-commitment. Sleeping with girlfriend's sister and taking her a transpacific yacht cruise is not an appropriate response to her asking you to move in together. It is almost begging to get caught and feels like a call for help. There was no way OQ wanted his relationship w/ LL to work pre-island. And post-island, he was more concerned with saving the city and repairing damage he had than to really trying to work on a relationship with LL. And he seemed genuinely happy for her to move forward with Tommy. I swear he stared at her photo, not because he missed her & wanted to get back to her. But that he was feeling guilty for all he had done to her and stared at the picture looking for answers & forgiveness that would never come. By s2, he just seemed done trying to make it work between them in any other capacity beyond friendship.

 

How the writers ever imagined the girl OQ got on the boat with as LL's sister as a good way to start off an amazing love story is just mind boggling. Her best friend maybe, her cousin, perhaps. But her sister? Not a good call. It creates the perfect amount of tension & drama for OQ's big return from the dead for both LL & QL. But it just sets up the love story on such icky foundation. Like building a house on quicksand, it was only a matter of time before it all got sucked away. Add to that the lack of chemistry, its no wonder the writers started looking elsewhere. Using sister-swapping as your defining characterization for star-crossed, is just an odd & poor choice.

 

Lastly, I don't know if its SA or OQ, but honestly whenever LL is around OQ - it appears like OQ cannot stand her presence esp in end of s2 & most of s3. I truly think SA/OQ just doesn't like LL. I don't mean that to reflect on KC, because there is no evidence that the cast has any problems. In fact they seem to get along, which makes it all the more frustrating that it might not always translate to the screen. OQ might have loved LL or cares for her in some way - but he seems like he wants nothing to do with her. It makes me hesitant to have more LL/OQ scenes in s4 because I want scenes to be enjoyable. And most OQ/LL scenes just don't have that descriptor. Even if he sucked as a villain, I still enjoyed most of all of Ras scenes. The plot & story was dumb and the role could have been cast better. But I will take a Ras/OQ dinner scene any day over a OQ/LL dinners scene.

Edited June 24, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

If I were to guess, Stephen doesn't like Laurel/Oliver because he doesn't like to lose, and boy, was that a colossal loss. And maybe the SHE DOESN'T EVEN GO HERE vibe he puts on Laurel/Oliver scenes is his way of telling the showrunners that he hopes they never ever go that route again. Ever.

[romantic idiot]

And maybe he doesn't like Laurel / Oliver because of the sister swapping, because she comes off as mean and entitled when she's around him and she's sorta his best friend's girl now. Basically, maybe he doesn't like Laurel / Oliver for the same reasons I don't. 

[apinknightmare]

I think a lot of it probably has to do with SA being really in tune with what he knows the general audience likes and doesn't like. One of the biggest criticisms early on in the show was Oliver and Laurel, and now that Oliver and Felicity are a popular thing, maybe he doesn't want to go back to a pairing that he knows was generally unpopular.  

[wingster55]

I think Stephen has no issues with Laurel...I don't get any vibes like that. And if he is playing it that way...that's pretty disrespectful.

 

Now that I look back on s2 it's funny how Laurel was made to be the bad guy when Oliver and Sara were the ones who did something awful back in 2007, and didn't seem to think that dating again/showing up at the Lance dinner was a bad thing. S2 really retconned a good deal to make the pairing..and in some ways the character work. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by wingster55

[apinknightmare]

Now that I look back on s2 it's funny how Laurel was made to be the bad guy when Oliver and Sara were the ones who did something awful back in 2007, and didn't seem to think that dating again/showing up at the Lance dinner was a bad thing. S2 really retconned a good deal to make the pairing..and in some ways the character work. 

 

They really messed up that whole sisterly bonding apology thing. At the end of that episode, Sara should've apologized not only for being thoughtless with Oliver back in the day (just as a gesture, since I think she paid for that mistake a thousand times over but she did owe Laurel that much), but for inviting him to that dinner and letting Laurel find out that she and Oliver were back together that way. And I think that would've been a good time for Laurel to apologize for her nastiness when Sara came back. I don't think she had anything to apologize for regarding the dinner, since Sara and Oliver were pretty tacky in some aspects of their relationship, like that dinner and living together in the foundry. 

 

They also retconned Laurel and Oliver in order to make Sara the wronged party in the initial Laurel/Oliver hookup when she revealed that Laurel called the cops to get Sara in trouble so she could go out with Oliver. They did a lot of damage to make that pair work only to kill Sara off however many episodes later. So stupid. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I don't think his issue is with Laurel. I think his issue is with Laurel/Oliver.

Where's that GIF of Stephen's face when that journo went from talking up Oliver/Felicity to "I think Oliver's still in love with Laurel"? It basically told me everything I need to know about what Stephen thinks of Laurel/Oliver.

Edited June 24, 2015 by dancingnancy

[lemotomato]

I get where KC is coming from, still talking up Oliver and Laurel. I certainly understand it from a business perspective. She is coming off her most successful season on the show (she actually has an MVP article to retweet, positive comments on socal media platforms, etc). The character and ship that she probably blames for nuking her TV plans is coming off her/their roughest season. And yet no one is really talking about her or her character. I haven't seen her getting any traction from the media. All those positive comments hasn't translated to twitter trends or fan award nominations. She got a whopping 232 tweets for the TeenChoice awards. She must have more fans then that on twitter/instagram/tumblr and yet that all she got. Oliver and Laurel got zip.

 

EBR/SA maybe getting a tvguide interview, maybe a photoshoot, Larry King is trying to get them on, they are getting free press from E!Online, Teen Choice and now MTV. That's a lot of eyeballs on them.

 

So I don't think a new LI is really going to change how KC approaches Oliver and Laurel. MG said they planned on moving Felicity to romantic interest sometime in S2. I'm willing to bet that was pretty early on in S2 and she was still pushing Oliver and Laurel, still saying Felicity was comic relief and Laurel could take her. She started backing away in S3, but now it looks like she is trying that narrative again.

 

ETA: I don't blame her btw. I really don't. She is looking for her career. It just makes it difficult not to read into some her acting choices. Is this scene off mark because of the writing or because KC wants it to read differently?

I think you're being too generous. While I don't blame her for trying to push for L/O in season 2, when Oliver didn't have an official love interest, I do blame her for still pushing it now, when the love interest role has clearly and emphatically gone to someone else for the time being. The interview in February when she said she liked the OQ/FS/LL love triangle going on made her look like she wasn't even watching the show. And then at Wizard World in May, she told her panel audience to ask the producers for Laurel/Oliver kissing scenes, which seemed really tacky to me, given how that was right after the big Olicity love scene aired. I think her attitude of "this is my headcanon, to hell with what everyone else (SA, the EPs, the writers) thinks" that comes out in her acting and her interviews isolates her and reflects poorly on her.

 

I hate to make this comparison, but I do think that in this case, it's appropriate: compare her behavior to EBR, who promoted Raylicity when that was what was happening on the show. She probably has the most to gain from being promoted to the main character's love interest, but she didn't try to undermine the storyline at the time and even got a lot of flak from her fans for not talking up Olicity more.

 

I try really hard not to pick on KC but it annoys me when her character has been given so many storylines and relationships that she could talk about, but she still can't just let L/O go. 

[Velocity23]

[Chaser]

I don't think his issue is with Laurel. I think he's issue is with Laurel/Oliver.

Where's that GIF of Stephen's face when that journo went from talking up Oliver/Felicity to "I think Oliver's still in love with Laurel"? It basically told me everything I need to know about what Stephen thinks of Laurel/Oliver.

That gif is the greatest thing since nutella.

 

He seemed geniunely happy with Oliver and Laurel's new status in 3.01 (I'm thinking about one of the interviews at comic con when he talked about the you catch 'm, I cook 'm). But I feel as the season progressed and they kicked into the Black Canary arc, he seemed less and less enthused about anything to do with Laurel. The mentioned interview in fact, the interviewer was basically asking for SA to praise LL/KC and he wouldn't do it. At a Con when asked about Laurel and Thea being badasses this season and the work KC/WH put in. He talked about WH and brought in CL and EBR. I didn't get that same impression prior to the BC arc.

 

 

I think you're being too generous. While I don't blame her for trying to push for L/O in season 2, when Oliver didn't have an official love interest, I do blame her for still pushing it now, when the love interest role has clearly and emphatically gone to someone else for the time being. The interview in February when she said she liked the OQ/FS/LL love triangle going on made her look like she wasn't even watching the show. And then at Wizard World in May, she told her panel audience to ask the producers for Laurel/Oliver kissing scenes, which seemed really tacky to me, given how that was right after the big Olicity love scene aired. I think her attitude of "this is my headcanon, to hell with what everyone else (SA, the EPs, the writers) thinks" that comes out in her acting and her interviews isolates her and reflects poorly on her.

 

I hate to make this comparison, but I do think that in this case, it's appropriate: compare her behavior to EBR, who promoted Raylicity when that was what was happening on the show. She probably has the most to gain from being promoted to the main character's love interest, but she didn't try to undermine the storyline at the time and even got a lot of flak from her fans for not talking up Olicity more.

 

I try really hard not to pick on KC but it annoys me when her character has been given so many storylines and relationships that she could talk about, but she still can't just let L/O go. 

Laurel Hurley mentioned in one of her ask that KC's PR for the show is self-contained. It's all about Laurel for her. I understand and don't blame her for it. Does it make me cringe sometimes? Absolutely. Just recently, she favorited an Oliver/Laurel fanart on instragram. Problem was it wasn't Oliver/Laurel. It was an Olicity drawing (the carry from the sex scene) that the user had stolen and posted as Oliver/Laurel. It wasn't even modified. It was clearly Olicity. It was a scene from the show. How do you not realize that? So yeah. I wish she was more self-aware, but at the end of that day...Shrug

[wonderwall]

 Just recently, she favorited an Oliver/Laurel fanart on instragram. Problem was it wasn't Oliver/Laurel. It was an Olicity drawing (the carry from the sex scene) that the user had stolen and posted as Oliver/Laurel.

 

You've piqued my interest! What fanart did she favorite? Could you link it?

[Chaser]

I'm leaving work now. I will try and find it when I make it home.

[Velocity23]

this one

[Sakura12]

I actually think SA's responses to Laurel/BC questions is very telling. He always changes the subject or talks about the costume. When he never had any issues talking about Caity as the Canary. He was proud that she did the Salmon Ladder and brought it up when it wasn't even asked. He talked about how she could probably kick his ass and how they both do stunts and were trying to portray the characters like their comic counterparts (being Green Arrow and Black Canary). 

 

He even wrote this on his facebook after they killed Sara 

What if Caity Lotz's Mad Men character had hopped into bed with Don Draper like EVERY OTHER WOMAN ON THE SHOW and she wasn't available to make our world three-dimensional with one of most badass superhero portrayals - male or female - ever? (Miss you, Caity.)

 

He has no problems talking about any other character on the show. It's only Laurel that he struggles to say something about. I'm not saying he doesn't like Cassidy, but I don't think he's enjoying the Laurel character or what she brings to the show. 

[wonderwall]

Maybe she knew that that was a drawing of Oliver/Felicity and liked it? :p

 

But yeah BOO to the person who stole that art. Not cool at all

[wingster55]

To be fair..that person never claimed it was Laurel.

I'm curious...would you say that Danielle Panabaker is guilty of the same crime? 

Edited June 25, 2015 by wingster55

[wonderwall]

To be fair..that person never claimed it was Laurel. 

That's what I thought... But maybe it was stolen, it just depends on the person who posted this drawing likes Olicity or not. I say this because no one who doesn't like Olicity would draw a snapshot of their sex scene :p 

[apinknightmare]

That's what I thought... But maybe it was stolen, it just depends on the person who posted this drawing likes Olicity or not. I say this because no one who doesn't like Olicity would draw a snapshot of their sex scene :p 

 

There wouldn't really be any point to putting Laurel's face on Felicity's body in that scene since Oliver and Laurel have their own sex scene that the person could've drawn, haha. 

[wonderwall]

There wouldn't really be any point to putting Laurel's face on Felicity's body in that scene since Oliver and Laurel have their own sex scene that the person could've drawn, haha. 

 

That drawing is obviously Felicity :p Maybe she liked it because everyone's loving the love triangle between L/O/F???

 

(I crack myself up ;))

[dtissagirl]

Bless. <3

It's like being able to READ HIS MIND, it's uncanny. I now know how Stephen feels about Laurel/Oliver RIGHT FROM HIS SOUL. Thanks for having no poker face, Steve!

I also love how he closes his mouth super tight, probably not to go ARE YOU CRAZY, LADY at the reporter.

Edited June 25, 2015 by dancingnancy

[wingster55]

Really, it's more of how that went opposite of the narrative, regardless of any particular couple. I feel he would've made the same face if the opposite was true, or if the reporter said Sara. 

[lemotomato]

He made a face when that same interviewer asked him about Raylicity, though.

[Guest]

 

 

Forever laughing about this. I've never seen a smile fade so quickly. It's a classic. And as much as I do believe that SA isn't much of a fan of the O/L relationship (we can't know this for sure, this is just IMO), I believe half of this reaction is like offence taken! to his acting skills. The interviewer might as well have said that despite SA clearly portraying Oliver as very much in love with Felicity for a while now, she doesn't believe in his acting at all. I mean. Yikes. She totally could have phrased that differently if she wanted to broach the subject of O/L. I'm not surprised he made that face tbh. Haha.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

 

Wow, you can actually see where his eyes just go dead, LOL!

[dtissagirl]

He made a face when that same interviewer asked him about Raylicity, though.

Ha, yes, Stephen's Palmer face is just as obvious as his Laurel/Oliver face. It's like DO NO WANT magically appears on his forehead.

Forever laughing about this. I've never seen a smile fade so quickly. It's a classic. And as much as I do believe that SA isn't much of a fan of the O/L relationship (we can't know this for sure, this is just IMO), I believe half of this reaction is like offence taken! to his acting skills. The interviewer might as well have said that despite SA clearly portraying Oliver as very much in love with Felicity for a while now, she doesn't believe in his acting at all. I mean. Yikes. She totally could have phrased that differently if she wanted to broach the subject of O/L. I'm not surprised he made that face tbh. Haha.

We've discussed this awhile ago, and someone -- I can't remember who, sorry -- was wondering if the reporter was just baiting him, with the L/O comment. And he fell for it too, because the next thing he said in that interview was the he usually refuses to answer the Laurel or Felicity question, but that it's Felicity. Edited June 25, 2015 by dancingnancy

[lemotomato]

Ha, yes, Stephen's Palmer face is just as obvious as his Laurel/Oliver face. It's like DO NO WANT magically appears on his forehead.

 

From the same interview as above:

 

From Paleyfest, when EBR talks about Raylicity:

 

For contrast:

Edited June 25, 2015 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

 

[Guest]

Haha. I think SA lost his chill because how much clearer could they be?! 

[Delphi]

These gifs are killing me, I'm laughing so hard. While watching a rather serious episode of a show. My roommates think I'm nuts.

[calliope1975]

I love that he has no chill and that every emotion shows right on his face. It makes me laugh every time. Never change, Stephen, never change.

[Balaclava]

I can't say I feel say I feel bad for KC. She still has a job and she is still top billing. And according to MG she is going to get stuff in s4. I mean its not great that she lost the LI role. But the writers have been struggling with her arc for 3 seasons now, so its not just the LI arc that she/writers have not delivered on. Honestly, I think if she learned to go with the flow more publicly, rather than push her narrative agenda at her public appearances I would have an easier time feeling bad for her. But she feels like a dog with a bone and just won't give it up. If I was her, I would be asking my fans to get me a better arc & a new love interest. She doesn't need to be OQ's LI to have a good arc or role. There are other ways to be an important character that people want to see.

 

Anyway, most of it falls on the writers for the destruction of Lauriver. Jbuffyangel was right when she said that Oliver nuked/torpedoed the relationship by sleeping with Sara. We have talked about this before. There is being noncommittal cheater, and then there is extreme cheating/non-commitment. Sleeping with girlfriend's sister and taking her a transpacific yacht cruise is not an appropriate response to her asking you to move in together. It is almost begging to get caught and feels like a call for help. There was no way OQ wanted his relationship w/ LL to work pre-island. And post-island, he was more concerned with saving the city and repairing damage he had than to really trying to work on a relationship with LL. And he seemed genuinely happy for her to move forward with Tommy. I swear he stared at her photo, not because he missed her & wanted to get back to her. But that he was feeling guilty for all he had done to her and stared at the picture looking for answers & forgiveness that would never come. By s2, he just seemed done trying to make it work between them in any other capacity beyond friendship.

 

How the writers ever imagined the girl OQ got on the boat with as LL's sister as a good way to start off an amazing love story is just mind boggling. Her best friend maybe, her cousin, perhaps. But her sister? Not a good call. It creates the perfect amount of tension & drama for OQ's big return from the dead for both LL & QL. But it just sets up the love story on such icky foundation. Like building a house on quicksand, it was only a matter of time before it all got sucked away. Add to that the lack of chemistry, its no wonder the writers started looking elsewhere. Using sister-swapping as your defining characterization for star-crossed, is just an odd & poor choice.

 

Lastly, I don't know if its SA or OQ, but honestly whenever LL is around OQ - it appears like OQ cannot stand her presence esp in end of s2 & most of s3. I truly think SA/OQ just doesn't like LL. I don't mean that to reflect on KC, because there is no evidence that the cast has any problems. In fact they seem to get along, which makes it all the more frustrating that it might not always translate to the screen. OQ might have loved LL or cares for her in some way - but he seems like he wants nothing to do with her. It makes me hesitant to have more LL/OQ scenes in s4 because I want scenes to be enjoyable. And most OQ/LL scenes just don't have that descriptor. Even if he sucked as a villain, I still enjoyed most of all of Ras scenes. The plot & story was dumb and the role could have been cast better. But I will take a Ras/OQ dinner scene any day over a OQ/LL dinners scene.

 

".....because there is no evidence that the cast has any problems. In fact they seem to get along....."

I have no idea if they get along or not tbh, well some of them i believe they do,from what i'm aloud to see in cons and shared photos either on twitter or IG

But regarding only the OQ/LL-SA/KC issue i remembered something from SDCC last year which i presume most of you,if not all,are familiar with. I'll leave a tumblr link here for some gifs, but the full interview is on youtube http://bansheehunteremissary.tumblr.com/post/93050677260/teaganvamp-marileibis

He seems very uncomfortable around her, and also very uncomfortable speaking about her or LL

[dtissagirl]

I've mentioned it before, the way Stephen is about not liking to fail, I bet he internalized the failure of Laurel/Oliver as his, more than anyone else's [and I guess Felicity/Palmer strikes him right at the competitive gene]. It explains his reactions to mentions of L/O, and it also explains why he grabbed Oliver/Felicity with both hands when the show decided to go that route. He needs this not to fail.

 

Poor dude didn't count on S3, though. Heh.

Edited June 25, 2015 by dancingnancy

[TrueMyth]

It's interesting to compare Diggle/Carley and Oliver/Laurel.  Both were the obvious intended love interest for each man (with Oliver/Laurel intended to go the series distance so on a slower burn).  I'm not privy to any behind the scenes gossip, but I do wonder why Carley was written out.  On rewatch, it's obvious the introduction of Lyla was a bit of a chemistry test.  How that was handled is a clear indication to me that KC is only still on the show because of Laurel Lance's comicbook destiny.  Obviously it's not her contract since they can kill off major characters without too much problem.

 

Anyone know why Carley was written out?  Granted, I do think Audrey and David have smoking chemistry.  While I liked Carley, I mostly only bought that she made Diggle happy, which means "she can stay."  If, god forbid, Diggle dies or they break up, I still want Lyla popping up on the show.  She's awesome.

[lemotomato]

It's interesting to compare Diggle/Carley and Oliver/Laurel.  Both were the obvious intended love interest for each man (with Oliver/Laurel intended to go the series distance so on a slower burn).  I'm not privy to any behind the scenes gossip, but I do wonder why Carley was written out.  On rewatch, it's obvious the introduction of Lyla was a bit of a chemistry test.  How that was handled is a clear indication to me that KC is only still on the show because of Laurel Lance's comicbook destiny.  Obviously it's not her contract since they can kill off major characters without too much problem.

 

Anyone know why Carley was written out?  Granted, I do think Audrey and David have smoking chemistry.  While I liked Carley, I mostly only bought that she made Diggle happy, which means "she can stay."  If, god forbid, Diggle dies or they break up, I still want Lyla popping up on the show.  She's awesome.

I don't think there were any other reasons to write Carly out other than the fact that they just ran out of story to tell with her. She was Digg's dead brother's wife and a waitress, and that's it. But with Lyla, they could delve more into Digg's time in the military, launch his storyline with ARGUS, and explore his previous relationship with her. Lyla had more utility as a character because she could be a love interest and an ally to the team. I think that's why she fit into the show so well and is pretty well-liked. And the chemistry between Audrey and David helps too. 

[dtissagirl]

I wonder if Dig/Carly was supposed to parallel/contrast the sister-swapping via cheating vs. brother-swapping because a widow bonded with her brother in law. Diggle doing the swapping "the right way", if you will. No more Laurel/Oliver, no need for Diggle to have that story going on.

Edited June 25, 2015 by dancingnancy

[EmeraldArcher]

".....because there is no evidence that the cast has any problems. In fact they seem to get along....."

I have no idea if they get along or not tbh, well some of them i believe they do,from what i'm aloud to see in cons and shared photos either on twitter or IG

But regarding only the OQ/LL-SA/KC issue i remembered something from SDCC last year which i presume most of you,if not all,are familiar with. I'll leave a tumblr link here for some gifs, but the full interview is on youtube http://bansheehunteremissary.tumblr.com/post/93050677260/teaganvamp-marileibis

He seems very uncomfortable around her, and also very uncomfortable speaking about her or LL

I haven't really paid attention to SA's reactions to KC, but in a conversation about who's to blame for lack of chemistry, I find it interesting that KC has repeatedly discussed her discomfort at kissing married co-stars. SA is married. In a recent interview or con appearance, she even struggled to admit that her male co-stars are good looking, as if such an admission is somehow inappropriate. Conversely, both EBR and SA have joked and teased about their sex scene, and SA drunkenly (?) told guests at a recent Nocking Point party that there was a lot of smooching and it was nice. I think he even said that EBR wanted "to nail it!" as an actress, of course. There's a short YouTube video of this.

So, maybe it's simply a matter of KC not being a good enough actress to cover her own personal discomfort about playing the LI of a character portrayed by a married actor? That sort of explains the absence of chemistry, but there are also the issues of LL simply being a harsh sourpuss most of the time.

I'm now officially rambling, but others have mentioned LL's weird, orgasmic reaction to OQ touching her shoulder at Digg's wedding. Two things come to mind: 1. She's still trying to play it like there's some lingering romance there. And 2. She was emulating EBR's adorable and unintentional flutter when OQ put his hand on FS's shoulder to interrupt her ramble about the possibility of dreaming while in a coma--it's in almost every Olicity fan vid!

Edited June 25, 2015 by EmeraldArcher

[olicityfan25]

Yeah the scene with Laurel and Oliver took me out of it completely. The difference between that scene and the you're not my employee, you're my partner, is that Felicity doesn't expand her chest. She does the acting with her face. Whereas Laurel (KC) uses her chest and expands it. That doesn't need to be done because her chest was already exposed. It was overdone and awkward.

[TrueMyth]

I don't think there were any other reasons to write Carly out other than the fact that they just ran out of story to tell with her. She was Digg's dead brother's wife and a waitress, and that's it. But with Lyla, they could delve more into Digg's time in the military, launch his storyline with ARGUS, and explore his previous relationship with her. Lyla had more utility as a character because she could be a love interest and an ally to the team. I think that's why she fit into the show so well and is pretty well-liked. And the chemistry between Audrey and David helps too. 

Right, but my point is, except for Laurel being the future Black Canary, you can basically change the names in your summary and have the Oliver/Laurel relationship.  Felicity was created to be useful and integrated into the A story from Day 1.  I think the only reason we're still talking about Oliver/Laurel is because of Laurel Lance's comic destiny. 

 

I wonder if Dig/Carly was supposed to parallel/contrast the sister-swapping via cheating vs. brother-swapping because a widow bonded with her brother in law. Diggle doing the swapping "the right way", if you will. No more Laurel/Oliver, no need for Diggle to have that story going on.

Wow!  I hadn't thought of that.  Good point.  I could see Oliver having a talk with Carly down the line about loving siblings.  Huh.  Well, I'm glad that didn't happen.

[Chaser]

I don't think anyone can be blamed for lack of chemistry. Some people just click on screen and some people don't. 

[tv echo]

Interesting look back -- here's a TV critics' roundtable discussion from October 17, 2012, on the chemistry between SA and KC (based solely on the pilot episode)...

AE: A lot of show is based on the chemistry between Amell and Katie Cassidy. Not just romantically but whenever her character becomes Black Canary. What do you think? Are the sparks big enough at this point?

Craig Byrne: I’d have to see more of the two of them together to know for sure. To be honest, I’m actually more curious at this point how he will do with Jessica de Gouw, who plays the Huntress. When we were up on set it looks like the two of them had some good spark going on.

Laura Prudom: I’m not wholly sold on their chemistry from the pilot, since both are holding a lot back and there’s a lot of resentment on Laurel’s part, but I’m hoping once the actors have become more familiar with each other, the characters will loosen up and the writers will have them flirt a little more.

Lauren DiMascio: There are definite sparks between Amell and Cassidy thus far. I mean, how could there not be, right? Look at how attractive they both are. I also think their chemistry/complicated relationship will help bring the non-comic book/action adventure fans to the show. They’ll go for the abs and stay for the relationship drama.

http://www.thebacklot.com/critics-roundtable-arrow/10/2012/

Edited June 25, 2015 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

I'm now officially rambling, but others have mentioned LL's weird, orgasmic reaction to OQ touching her shoulder at Digg's wedding. Two things come to mind: 1. She's still trying to play it like there's some lingering romance there. And 2. She was emulating EBR's adorable and unintentional flutter when OQ put his hand on FS's shoulder to interrupt her ramble about the possibility of dreaming while in a coma--it's in almost every Olicity fan vid!

 

I think in this scene this moment was supposed to show that Laurel had other bumps, bruises, etc in addition to the wrist brace injury from training with Nyssa.  It was supposed to be a painful gasp maybe.  Letting Oliver & the audience know that LL was training hard is all this scene was about.  They had to give her something.  Talking about the weather doesn't really add anything to the story. ;)

[EmeraldArcher]

I think in this scene this moment was supposed to show that Laurel had other bumps, bruises, etc in addition to the wrist brace injury from training with Nyssa.  It was supposed to be a painful gasp maybe.  Letting Oliver & the audience know that LL was training hard is all this scene was about.  They had to give her something.  Talking about the weather doesn't really add anything to the story. ;)

That's a great point and entirely plausible, especially given that she's sporting a brace on her wrist. I wish it had been more obvious though, like her uttering "ow" or making an obvious grimace. It came across as a startled gasp and shudder, which is way too open to interpretation (and ridicule).

I did appreciate their small talk in that scene, especially Oliver complimenting her dress. For as much animosity that sometimes vibrates between them, there are always small moments that show she is still important to Oliver. The show has always sold that, I think.