Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I am just gonna leave this here

That thread is awesome. I want to buy that journal now, LOL!

[dtissagirl]

Oh my God "when she reaches for the bottle" hahahahaha. I need this book. I have never spent a dime on anything Arrow, but now I might.

[calliope1975]

I feel like the snarky intern who ran the Arrow Tumblr page might have written this book. I may have to get it now. 

[doesntworkonwood]

Looking through the thread, it looks like the writers of that book don't know how arabic works. It's right to left guys... 

[kismet]

Catching up on the thread.  Pretty much just retreading. But we are in wash/rinse/repeat mode with Arrow these days.

I don't know what their master plan for Olicity.

But I think their masterplan for Mayo is to have him killed in line of duty, so FS can have a dead love of her life like OQ. Then they can reconnect over lost loves. I know Cooper was supposed to her tragic lost love,  but they screwed that pooch by making him alive and evil. They probably want a neighbor for LL.

Even if they find that MIA personality for Mayo, I dont see him lasting long. 1. They suck at writing & 2. Ritter is gonna move on to something better. 

Btw - all this speculation, haven't touched a spoiler in months. I just think the writers are gonna aim for mirroring past loves when it comes to O/F.

[looptab]

22 minutes ago, kismet said:

 

But I think their masterplan for Mayo is to have him killed in line of duty, so FS can have a dead love of her life like OQ. Then they can reconnect over lost loves. 

Lol, of all the  things connecting Oliver and Felicity, why  should  they reconnect over that ?

[BkWurm1]

Sounds fine when you look at the small print and realize Laurel and Mayo weren't anything close to "love of their life." 

Edited October 28, 2016 by BkWurm1
Were NOT!!! Not just were.

[bijoux]

But Oliver doesn't have a lost love of his life. Even Laurel acknowledged that she wasn't it for him.

[kismet]

3 hours ago, looptab said:

Lol, of all the  things connecting Oliver and Felicity, why  should  they reconnect over that ?

Because its about a rational and logical a reason as any other. Honestly, the writers don't really seen to use common rhyme & reason as their guide. So this reason is as illogical as fabricating BMD the way they did to manufacture a break-up. And I don't think the writers can resist parallels and their own definition of star-crossed. I think giving them each a lover lost in the line of duty will contribute to them reconnecting. It will be angsty, epic & organic.

I get that the LL we saw was never portrayed as the Love of OQ after the whole refitting the lovestory d/t lack of chemistry between the original leads. But LL was a major love of OQs life per the early season and she certainly seems to be a looming emotional presence this year. I think it's ripe for them to try to give FS something similar. Otherwise why bother giving her a BF, besides O/F cannot be together and we want OQ to get laid this season despite being alone? There must be some illogical rationale that they will attempt to weave back into their narrative. Parallel dead lovers seems to fit. And if I'm wrong, I doubt the writers will come up with a better reason, so might as well think whatever we want to think.

Edited October 28, 2016 by kismet

[calliope1975]

11 minutes ago, doesntworkonwood said:

It's frustrating because no one on the show has actually called Oliver out on his lie, not even Felicity herself. It feels like we're moving on to the fallout without acknowledging what actually happened. With the way that people (like WM and SA) have been talking about the relationship, I doubt that BMD will actually be brought up (and to a certain extent I don't actually want it brought up), but that just leaves us with a lot of ambiguity and no actual closure on that particular chapter. I've been enjoying the Olicity scenes so far, but there's certainly a sense of 'weirdness' attached to them just because it is so difficult to see where they actually stand and how they're going to get to the point of being together again (which I have no doubt they will get to). 

Everyone has sort of moved on from it. I think I would have much preferred it to be Oliver or Felicity that had left instead of Digg at the end of the last series just because it would have allowed us to come back to a place where I still understood what was going on with their relationship.

I brought this over from Spoilers, though I wasn't quite sure whether my response should go here or in the bitterness thread. 

I think the BMD lie will remain frustrating and annoying because TIIC don't think Oliver did anything wrong. On the surface, Oliver lied and as a result, Felicity broke up with him. That's his consequence. Unfortunately, on the show, they had character after character twist themselves into pretzels to absolve Oliver of any wrongdoing. When TPTB had Thea, who was so mad about being lied to that she ditched her family and wouldn't sign papers that resulted in the Queens' losing their fortune (let's ignore how beyond dumb that was,) tell Oliver he just had to do what he had to do regarding Spawn, I knew we were never going to get any type of true remorse in show. SA can play it that way, but I doubt we'll get a truly meaningful, emotional conversation between Olicity. I would love to be proven wrong, but if Olicity do get back together, I suspect very little of this mess will be addressed. Which is why I choose to pretend the entire BMD didn't happen. 

[GirlvsTV]

Yeah, I will forever be bitter the show took Oliver's side in the break-up. Felicity did not get even one non-Oliver shaped person to talk to about the situation. I think that made me more angry than the reason for break-up in the end.

After the huge negative reaction to The Lie, I think the writers went out of their way to not make Oliver look like the bad guy. Except he was the bad guy, and there wasn't really a way around it so everything just ended up weird, muddled and unresolved.

ETA: The weird thing is that A LOT of this could have been cleared up if Oliver had just realized he'd made a bad choice and apologized to Felicity. It doesn't mean they would be together, I think work would be necessary for Felicity to trust Oliver that way again, but it would have alleviated some of the dissatisfaction with the storyline.

Edited October 29, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[fangirlforever320]

7 minutes ago, GirlvsTV said:

Yeah, I will forever be bitter the show took Oliver's side in the break-up. Felicity did not get even one non-Oliver shaped person to talk to about the situation. I think that made me more angry than the reason for break-up in the end.

After the huge negative reaction to The Lie, I think the writers went out of their way to not make Oliver look like the bad guy. Except he was the bad guy, and there wasn't really a way around it so everything just ended up weird, muddled and unresolved.

More than that, the show had Felicity tell people she didn't want to talk about it. How handy for them, for the character herself to say it wasn't something to talk about. That was in 4x16. Talk about frustrating. We would have liked to see it be discussed, the realities of this stupid situation be brought to light, rip it off like a bandaid so we can HEAL from it, but instead the show chose to sweep it under the rug instead. So.. it's whatever. 

In making Oliver not look like the bad guy, they've sorta make Felicity look like she IS which only makes fans feel more annoyed. 

[KirkB]

I've never really even been into Oliver/Felicity, not as a driving force for watching the show anyway, and even I hated the way that went down. Felicity got shafted in every way possible last season while Oliver pretty much got off scott free.

Edited October 29, 2016 by KirkB

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Felicity got shafted in every way possible last season while Oliver pretty much got off scott free.

Except for losing his home and fiancée, yeah. 

[dtissagirl]

This is kind of funny, though. They wrote a break-up storyline that was almost universally hated. Then they skipped ahead in time, and are still directly avoiding any mention whatsoever of the garbage fire storyline, which, on any other show would be fine, but here, the lack of acknowledgment is causing some cognitive dissonance. And irritation. And with reason too, because they went too far one way with O/F, and then regressed them to a wtf limbo of ~ambiguous~ nobody understands.

Arrow is truly a special unicorn.

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

This is kind of funny, though. They wrote a break-up storyline that was almost universally hated. Then they skipped ahead in time, and are still directly avoiding any mention whatsoever of the garbage fire storyline, which, on any other show would be fine, but here, the lack of acknowledgment is causing some cognitive dissonance. And irritation. And with reason too, because they went too far one way with O/F, and then regressed them to a wtf limbo of ~ambiguous~ nobody understands.

Arrow is truly a special unicorn.

It's a special type of incompetence that's truly impressive. 

[EmilyBettFan]

What bothers me most of all is that he kept leaving her while she was in the wheelchair to go see William and kept it a secret from her. Yet, somehow everything is Felicity's fault and most fans hated on her because she dared to involve herself in her soon to be husband's life.

Do these people who hate on her see how ridiculous they are? These people are just as bad as that stupid plot they wrote.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, EmilyBettFan said:

What bothers me most of all is that he kept leaving her while she was in the wheelchair to go see William and kept it a secret from her. Yet, somehow everything is Felicity's fault and most fans hated on her because she dared to involve herself in her soon to be husband's life.

This part has never been clear to me.  Did he continue to see William after the shooting? I really can't remember.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This part has never been clear to me.  Did he continue to see William after the shooting? I really can't remember.

Yes.

[LeighAn]

I believe in 4x11 or 4x12 maybe Oliver makes a reference that hes been busy making trips to Central City which the audience can imply meant he was visiting William but it was such a small throw away line and was never made a bigger point of again that its easy to see how people missed it.

[catrox14]

45 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes.

Thanks for elaborating....

[catrox14]

44 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I believe in 4x11 or 4x12 maybe Oliver makes a reference that hes been busy making trips to Central City which the audience can imply meant he was visiting William but it was such a small throw away line and was never made a bigger point of again that its easy to see how people missed it.

Thank you. I kind of lost track of how the timeline went.

[apinknightmare]

17 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Thanks for elaborating....

I forgot which episode Oliver mentioned the trips back and forth to Central City in, and went to check, but when I came back LeighAn had already answered.

Edited October 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Except for losing his home and fiancée, yeah. 

It doesn't seem to bother him though, and that's why it doesn't feel like he lost anything.

Other than the brief line to Diggle  when he was skyping him in  501, after the fake wedding episode it never seemed like losing Felicity bothered Oliver, whereas we know that what happened bothered Felicity very much and played into her fears of not being able to trust men who say they love her.

They made a big thing of Oliver having to live in the lair because he has no home in 2B/3A including Felicity buying him a bed and a fern but I've yet to hear any reference to that now beyond Felicity's line that she thought  he'd be gone? asleep? in one of the episodes at the end of season 4.

So because I'm getting nothing from Oliver about the break-up, it feels like he got off without consequences even though it was his lie that caused it.

IIRC the mention of the trips to Central City was in the episode in which Felicity was in the hospital and Oliver wouldn't visit her, which made it so much worse.

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It doesn't seem to bother him though, and that's why it doesn't feel like he lost anything.

Seriously?

10 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

IIRC the mention of the trips to Central City was in the episode in which Felicity was in the hospital and Oliver wouldn't visit her, which made it so much worse.

No, it was in 4x13 - after. He doesn't elaborate on when exactly he went though, so he could've gone while she was in there. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

So because I'm getting nothing from Oliver about the break-up, it feels like he got off without consequences even though it was his lie that caused it.

He lost the woman he loves due to his own actions. He gave up his home with her that made him happy. . I guess I'm not seeing how those aren't consequences.

[statsgirl]

They're certainly more consequences than Barry's ever suffered.

But the show is determined to portray Oliver as having no choice but to agree to Samantha's demand and  we've never seen Oliver show any regret for his decision to lie to Felicity so the consequences seem more like an event that happened to him than a result of something he did.

I think I've seen him beat himself up more about letting Laurel join the team and thus getting her killed, which wasn't his fault at all.  When Tommy died he ran away forever more, he thought. When Slade killed Moira, he was willing to sacrifice his own life.  Granted no one got killed now but how much responsibility have we seen him take on for what happened to cause Felicity to leave him?  To me it seems more like he views it as a consequence of being a vigilante rather than the result of his lie and subsequent actions.  It's sad it happened but it's the result of his decision to be a vigilante, not because he screwed up.

[Carrie Ann]

42 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It doesn't seem to bother him though, and that's why it doesn't feel like he lost anything.

Other than the brief line to Diggle  when he was skyping him in  501, after the fake wedding episode it never seemed like losing Felicity bothered Oliver, whereas we know that what happened bothered Felicity very much and played into her fears of not being able to trust men who say they love her.

They made a big thing of Oliver having to live in the lair because he has no home in 2B/3A including Felicity buying him a bed and a fern but I've yet to hear any reference to that now beyond Felicity's line that she thought  he'd be gone? asleep? in one of the episodes at the end of season 4.

So because I'm getting nothing from Oliver about the break-up, it feels like he got off without consequences even though it was his lie that caused it.

To the bolded part first: I know that she talked about things related to her dad and Curtis drew some parallels for her, but we never actually heard these things from Felicity because of her much-maligned lack of POV, so to me this is making inferences into her feelings and state of mind based on available evidence.

Which is what I'm doing when I assume that, yeah, it bothered Oliver to lose Felicity, and William, and his home, and his mayoral campaign after his lie. I don't think either of them let down their poker faces very often after 416, so it would be as easy to say that Felicity wasn't bothered anymore as to say Oliver wasn't. It just...seems like a pretty big leap, given the story we were told up to that point. Even after that, we had LL talking about Felicity being the love of his life, him talking about how she said he couldn't change (and her reversing that), and a lot of smaller moments that I read as both of them struggling with their sadness. (As for where he was living, we saw that he was living in the lair at the end of last season. (Sorry if I misunderstood--seemed like you weren't convinced.))

As far as what either or both of them are feeling now in Season 5? I don't know, because as you say, they have barely addressed it this season. As far as I can tell, based on evidence at hand, one could deduce anything. That they are both over it or neither is, or one is but not the other. She's dating someone else; he's sort of shrugging about it to Dig. She's telling Curtis she doesn't talk to Oliver about things because they don't have that kind of relationship anymore, but she apparently hasn't told anyone about her new boyfriend.

At any rate, my feeling is that Oliver has had the kind of tangible consequences that most other characters in this universe do not experience for their screw-ups. Where the writers failed (only in this one specific area--this post could go on for even longer if I got started) was in giving him TOO much support from all the other characters. They needed to pull at least one of those supportive people and have them instead verbally support Felicity's position and oppose Oliver's idiocy, and not absolve him because of his ~tough choice~, and then to have him acknowledge that there was a third option that he didn't take (which was to tell her anyway, Samantha be damned). I think that's what made it feel like he got away with it. Because the show didn't stand in judgment of Oliver to the degree it needed to, and because Felicity was left sort of in the cold for several episodes.

[Guest]

In 420, Felicity giving back the ring and walking away was shown to be one of Oliver's worst moments, in a montage of all the bad things that had happened to him - along with the deaths of his loved ones. OTT but I think it's safe to say that Oliver is bothered by losing Felicity and has suffered the consequences of his lie.

But I agree with @Carrie Ann. I think where the show failed is by having too many people support Oliver's decision to lie which left Felicity as the odd one out and basically looking like the bad guy, even though she wasn't at all. I think that's where they really went wrong tbh. Of course they went wrong with lying in the first place but that's another problem. Haha.

[quarks]

Coming from this from the perspective of a fan, more banter, less angst, Arrow!  

Coming from this from the perspective of a TV writer, I'm with MG - 505 was a major, positive Olicity episode, for several reasons:

1. It echoed 210 - right down to the final heart eyes scene, which was the set up for later major Olicity stuff.

210 started off with Felicity heading out to spend time with another guy, and Oliver jealous; it ended with Felicity giving Oliver an opening to say something - only to have Oliver tell her that Barry would wake up and that she should pursue Barry.

505 started off with Felicity heading out to spend time with another guy, and Oliver first unaware - and then hurt; it ended with Felicity giving Oliver an opening to say something - only to have Oliver tell her to pursue the other guy.  In both cases, Felicity had the whole heart eyes of "please, please tell me you want me, Oliver." In both cases, Oliver decided that the right thing to do was let Felicity be happy with someone else. In both cases, the camera and the acting let us know that Felicity would be happiest with him. The main changes here: Felicity had no problems letting Oliver know about Barry. She did have problems letting Oliver know about Mayo.

2, More significantly, 505 just went through virtually every standard rom-com bit for will they/won't they/on again/off again couples - from the oooh, look, Felicity is with someone else who is so obviously wrong for her - the camera isn't even letting us watch them make out, she hasn't told anyone about him, even Curtis, they aren't living together, oooh, Oliver is finding out about this from someone else HA HA, oooh, Oliver just got another woman's number, HA HA Felicity was just about to tell Oliver that things were complicated with Mayo Cop because she still has feelings for HIM but Oliver interrupted her MISUNDERSTANDINGS ABOUND HA HA because clearly they are STILL IN LOVE HA HA tune in for the series finale/next season.  

Now, yeah, there's some major and obvious issues with playing out rom-com beats in the middle of a drama series. Including the issue that, well, this isn't a comedy, where everything is guaranteed to work out. It's a drama, on a show that just casually killed off about 20 people in the last episode, so there's every chance that viewers won't take this as part of a comedy that's going to work out well.  And Arrow has a particular problem: part of the fun of Oliver/Felicity in prior seasons and the first four episodes of this season is that on the surface, at least, they often played out as an atypical couple, avoiding the rom-com beats, creating the expectation that they will continue to avoid the standard rom-com beats.

But that's just the surface. Because Arrow has rarely avoided the rom-com cliches with Oliver and Felicity. Instead, they've embraced them and played with them - having the first "I love you," hit all of the romantic beats of the final moments of a romance comedy, where the audience finally learns who the hero really loves - only to have that be a trick. Or having the first sex scene get followed by Felicity drugging Oliver.  Or in this last episode, where Arrow pulled the standard "Oh, no, the hero is getting the number of another girl!" Only, they went that cliche because it's so cliched, and so much what happens when the girl is with another guy, that it could be used to trick the audience into thinking that yes, that's absolutely Oliver. Which is to say, just as the sex scene was used to hide that Felicity would be drugging Oliver in the next couple of scenes and basically sexed him up to disarm him, the "let me give you my number" bit was used to hide that this was Human Target, not Oliver.

3. Apart from that, 505 went out of its way to emphasize that Mayo Cop and Felicity don't have much of a relationship, setting up so many anvils for their upcoming breakup that I was only surprised it wasn't squeezed into this episode (thanks, Wild Dog), and ended with the reveal that yes, Susan does have another plot reason to be in the show, Oliver not calling her or even looking at her number, and Oliver/Felicity heart eyes.

4. The one thing that I do find a bit puzzling, is that this is the sort of episode/relationship beats that television usually plays out in February or May, not November.

HMM.

But otherwise, I'd say Olicity is definitely still on. That may or may not cheer you.

As always, opinions solely my own.

[dtissagirl]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they're doing.

But even more so than Guggenheim showing contempt for 'shippers not being patient enough [or trusting enough, or not having sworn blind fidelity as he wished, or whatever kind of pledge of allegiance he seems to think is needed to watch television -- take a pick] with his show so he can slowly reveal his ~masterplan... doesn't this feel, I don't know, outdated? It's like he's plotting the romantic storyline from 1994.

And I can't figure out if he's assuming his audience has never ever watched TV before [so they'll be super very surprised when whatever Sweeps arrives that points O/F right back to each other], or if he's actively counting on everyone who watches his show being super familiar with how romantic beats and sweeps work on serialized procedurals, so they're banking on that familiarity to convince folks to stick out the cockblocking.

[tangerine95]

I really don't think the issue is olicity being apart, at least it's not for me. The issue imo is the fact that they're ignoring they had olicity ready to get married and they're ignoring the reasons they even broke up.Everything they're doing does seem to me like just classic tropes before a couple gets back together but they already basically did that twice so at some point it gets really old.And I don't think there's ever close to enough pay off for all the angst they put olicity through tbh.They got 15 episodes as a couple and by episode 8 they were already setting up the break up.Most shows seem to at least give the couple a full season together before going for the breaking up and making up thing. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by tangerine95

[looptab]

2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

And I can't figure out if he's assuming his audience has never ever watched TV before [so they'll be super very surprised when whatever Sweeps arrives that points O/F right back to each other], or if he's actively counting on everyone who watches his show being super familiar with how romantic beats and sweeps work on serialized procedurals, so they're banking on that familiarity to convince folks to stick out the cockblocking.

That part really is confusing. Like, at times I almost feel sorry for the guy because I see him  getting grief and seeming genuinely confused on why people are upset, and I don't know if he just wants to say 'Have you ever watched TV, you moron?' or 'Keep waiting for what I have  in store for you!'

Then of course he acts as a jerk and I stop feeling sorry.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

And I can't figure out if he's assuming his audience has never ever watched TV before [so they'll be super very surprised when whatever Sweeps arrives that points O/F right back to each other], or if he's actively counting on everyone who watches his show being super familiar with how romantic beats and sweeps work on serialized procedurals, so they're banking on that familiarity to convince folks to stick out the cockblocking.

He and AK and I are the same age and grew up on more or less the same shows and comic books, so, yeah, I think he was figuring that viewers would think hey, this is just like that episode of Wings/Friends/Frasier (Miles and Daphne)/a couple of episodes of Night Court (which tended to massively fail on the shipping front, but still)/The Nanny and other sitcoms that I'm currently forgetting, because, well, it is. And all of these shows were successful despite, or perhaps because of, the cockblocking, even including Night Court. Several genre shows also did very well for years despite cockblocking - X-Files, Buffy and Stargate SG-1 all leap to mind.

What's interesting is that this was the Sweeps episode that pointed Oliver and Felicity right back to each other, and if I wasn't super very surprised, I was a bit surprised that it happened in November, so he got a mild surprise out of me, at least. 

[dtissagirl]

I might just have had the awful terrible realization that these hacks probably think they're revamping Ross and Rachel for Millennials. Didn't they like, get married and have a kid and then went their separate ways and then came back together?

I've never hated two characters as much as I hated Ross and Rachel. This is totally happening, isn't it.

[Thundercatmary]

I hope to god it's not, that's the exact opposite of what I love about Olicity.

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Didn't they like, get married and have a kid and then went their separate ways and then came back together?

No, they were on and off a couple of times, and then Ross got her pregnant during a one-night stand after she told him the story of Mt. Tibidabo. 

If Felicity starts telling Oliver about that time she was backpacking across western Europe, we're in trouble. 

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

No, they were on and off a couple of times, and then Ross got her pregnant during a one-night stand after she told him the story of Mt. Tibidabo.

But they got married in Vegas ~by accident, didn't they? I never watched Friends properly, but I remember that episode. Arrow can't do sitcom-y things like that, but they went with the wedding that was not a real wedding thing nonetheless.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

But they got married in Vegas ~by accident, didn't they? I never watched Friends properly, but I remember that episode. Arrow can't do sitcom-y things like that, but they went with the wedding that was not a real wedding thing nonetheless.

Oh, that's right. I forgot about that one since it didn't really amount to much apart from Ross having to get divorced. Again, haha.

[kismet]

Arrow does not have the skill or the setting to do a modern retelling of Ross & Rachel. And why should they emulate another show? Bad strategy.

What used to make O&F special was that they beat to their own drummer. In s1-2, 3b & 4a, they transcended the cliches and formulaic couplings of other TV shows. Turns out those moments were probably complete mistakes or lucky twists of TV fate. I truly believe the Arrow writers are too afraid or unable for various reasons to embrace what made their show & one of its signature pairings so special in the first place.

Edited November 3, 2016 by kismet

[statsgirl]

I've never enjoyed to stalling and other partners on any show, although there is the possibility that I might if the characters were written well.

The problem is that they never are.  I always end up losing respect for the characters I shipped because they act in such stupid ways.  It's already happening on Arrow -- Felicity is in a relationship with Mayo and lying to him and to Oliver, not knowing if it's "real"  (it's been at least 6 weeks now).  And Oliver is all "I just want you to be happy and now I'm going to go bang other people".

Come on, writers, keep them apart if you must but don't make me stop liking them as you do so.

[tarotx]

I wasn't sure where to put this. I originally had it going to into the episode but it feels more relationshippy.  

I always feel like the vibe Felicity is feeling is what radiates to the audience and right now she's somewhere in limbo emotionally so it's bringing an underlying sadness to the show. Oliver always reverts back to the man who hides important life moments past and present. If Felicity doesn't move on she'll be forever emotionally raw from Oliver constantly opening up that same wound. So Felicity has decided she is moving on and then met a nice guy who is so not Oliver but is still saving the city in his own way. Perfect guy to move on with. Right? Maybe it's just the way EBR is playing it but it feels like Felicity is moving on only because she has told herself she has to move on from Oliver. Not because she has feelings for Billy. I think it's going to hurt her seeing Oliver with someone else. She's not going to want it to hurt but it will.  And even with Oliver seemingly on some kind of mood stabilizing med, Oliver is going to be Ok with Felicity moving on until he sees her with the new guy. It's going to hurt. I think Felicity and Oliver will be on a parallel forced "moving on" stage.  Both as a meta forced and because Oliver has to eventually learn this lesson that he has been trying to the last 3 season and just can't. Hopefully with the Flashbacks ending this season and we basically know what happened in the past and he can just fully open up so that lesson has no reason not to finally be learned. 

Edited November 5, 2016 by tarotx

[Thundercatmary]

That all makes sense, unfortunately the writers seem to skip a lot of those character moments.

[Sunshine]

I watched 5.06 again and then I watched the scene between Felicity and Malone several times (see @TV Echo's post in 5.06 thread).  I have seen a lot of indignation over Felicity saying she works for the Green Arrow.  I actually wondered if Emily misspoke her line because earlier in the episode she said WITH to Diggle.  Anyway, I think the indignation might have taken away from the purpose of the scene.  It might be the main reason Felicity has a boyfriend.  

Spoiler

Sources have said the boyfriend would be good for Olicity. 

Malone: "I figured whenever you were ready to tell me what's going on with you, you would tell me." (Compare that to original timeline in 4.08 and Felicity's reaction.)

Malone: "You are a criminal, albeit for a good cause."

Felicity: That went better than I expected. (paraphrasing)  "You're not feeling mad, hurt, or a lack of trust?"

Malone: "I'd be a jerk if I did."

(Compare that to 4-15 and Felicity being angry and then walking out.  She never let Oliver say anything.  In 4-16 She basically refused to talk about the situation when Oliver asked after the fake wedding.)  I think this is the EPs/writers having Felicity realize (eventually at least) what her role in the breakup was.  Although Oliver lied, they broke up because Felicity was unwilling to try to work anything out.  There was an interview in 4B that said she would see her role in it.  The closest they came in 4B was Curtis pointing out a parallel between O/F & Noah/Donna.        

[way2interested]

14 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

(Compare that to 4-15 and Felicity being angry and then walking out.  She never let Oliver say anything.  In 4-16 She basically refused to talk about the situation when Oliver asked after the fake wedding.)  I think this is the EPs/writers having Felicity realize (eventually at least) what her role in the breakup was.  Although Oliver lied, they broke up because Felicity was unwilling to try to work anything out.  There was an interview in 4B that said she would see her role in it.  The closest they came in 4B was Curtis pointing out a parallel between O/F & Noah/Donna.        

Yeah, that's how I kind of saw that whole scene for 506. I liked how they framed it as she was expecting essentially the same reaction that she gave to Oliver and was surprised that there could be a different kind of reaction, making it kind of an eye-opening moment for her too. The only problem comes from the tacked-on feeling of the scene and the little I actually care about the bf, but that's a moot point.

This also goes on the side of the argument with Oliver for some of the episodes for 5a so far as well. Oliver's issues were the idea that he kept secrets/went through things alone, so that issue is coming up a bunch of times this section of the season alone to be dealt with. Meanwhile small things with Felicity show some of this coming up as well (ex: sharing with Felicity about his feelings about the new team, mentioning his time in Russia to her, expressing exactly what he thinks about the situation of her having a bf instead of keeping his feelings to his chest, etc.). 

So a bunch of these smaller moments of acknowledging these faults/changes are happening, which I appreciate, but I do wonder where these lead to. Like, part of me gets a whole s2-vibe, where Oliver and Felicity have a bunch of small important moments that lead to the big gotcha moment at the end of the season, but it's not so clear what kind of "big" moment would even come after this.

[BkWurm1]

36 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I watched 5.06 again and then I watched the scene between Felicity and Malone several times (see @TV Echo's post in 5.06 thread).  I have seen a lot of indignation over Felicity saying she works for the Green Arrow.  I actually wondered if Emily misspoke her line because earlier in the episode she said WITH to Diggle.  Anyway, I think the indignation might have taken away from the purpose of the scene.  It might be the main reason Felicity has a boyfriend.  

  Reveal hidden contents

Sources have said the boyfriend would be good for Olicity. 

Malone: "I figured whenever you were ready to tell me what's going on with you, you would tell me." (Compare that to original timeline in 4.08 and Felicity's reaction.)

Malone: "You are a criminal, albeit for a good cause."

Felicity: That went better than I expected. (paraphrasing)  "You're not feeling mad, hurt, or a lack of trust?"

Malone: "I'd be a jerk if I did."

(Compare that to 4-15 and Felicity being angry and then walking out.  She never let Oliver say anything.  In 4-16 She basically refused to talk about the situation when Oliver asked after the fake wedding.)  I think this is the EPs/writers having Felicity realize (eventually at least) what her role in the breakup was.  Although Oliver lied, they broke up because Felicity was unwilling to try to work anything out.  There was an interview in 4B that said she would see her role in it.  The closest they came in 4B was Curtis pointing out a parallel between O/F & Noah/Donna.        

Except it's apples to oranges.  Essentially a professional thing vs a personal thing kept hidden not to mention the vast difference in the stage of their relationship.  The parallels were there, but I remain frustrated because for one, I didn't buy his reaction and two, I'm afraid they would be gearing up to say that Felicity was wrong to feel the way she felt.   

[statsgirl]

I'm afraid I don't see the parallel, although I wouldn't be surprised if they were making it.

Oliver was engaged to Felicity, had been living with her for almost a year, and kept the existence of his son a secret even though he was visiting him during part of that time.  Mayo/Felcity is so new (intangible? fragile?) that Felicity hasn't even introduced him to her friends yet.  In one situation, the partner is owed complete honesty; in the other, they are still working their way towards what to tell the other person and what not.  Also, Oliver's secrets and lack of honesty in the relationship had been a  problem for some time; William and putting his trust in Samantha while keeping it from Felicity was just the last straw in a behaviour that had been going on for some time.

The only way I want this to relate to Olicity at all is for Felicity to see that Oliver is the real thing while Malone isn't.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if those writers think that Mayo is good for Olicity because Oliver gets to sleep around and then realizes he wants Felicity in the end, to be  honest.

[Sunshine]

I disagree that it's apples to oranges.  Felicity has been dating a cop and lying (even if by omission) since she began seeing him.  She has been in a personal relationship with him for 2+ months.

 I don't think they are necessarily saying she was wrong to be mad or feel hurt.  Look at Malone's immediate reaction.  I do think they are trying to say she was partially at fault in the breakup.  In 4.08 she didn't give him time to come to grips with the reveal before she walked away.  In 4.15 she walked away without letting him say anything.  She shut him down again in 4.16.

I don't agree with how they are framing the story but I do think it is what they are doing.  I also know there was a WM interview where she mentioned Felicity seeing her role in the breakup.  If I had never read that I wouldn't have even considered that they might be doing a parallel.

I would love to discover that Malone has some other reason for being (evil might make him interesting) but I'm not convinced.    

Edited November 12, 2016 by Sunshine

[ComicFan777]

I'm not sure what else Felicity could have really done to work things out with Oliver in 4.15.  What more would Oliver have to say?

From what I remember from 4.15 (hazy memory of the awful episode), I think Oliver spent most of the episode talking to Felicity about William where it basically boiled down to he wished that he could tell her, but Samantha asked him to not tell anyone and he thought Samantha was right.  He also mentioned that he wanted to convince Samantha to allow him to tell her eventually. I think she gave him every opportunity to have his say before she broke up with him.  If anything, I think we didn't get as much of Felicity's POV out of the whole William situation since by the end of the episode after Oliver discussed William with Vixen and Diggle, Oliver already sent William away without a discussion with Felicity.  What else would Oliver need to say to explain why he doesn't include her in big decisions when he talked to Mari and Diggle already.  I'm not sure what else could have been done on Felicity's part to really work things out with Oliver at that point - he wasn't honest with her and he didn't include her - more talking can't fix what he did.
 

Edited November 12, 2016 by ComicFan777

[tarotx]

And in the same episode, Oliver gets Angry reactions from his new teammates/Partners because of the secret keeping and nonsharing Oliver does. So basically, both Oliver and Felicity were told/reminded that their go to in dealing with these situations might need to be reevaluated. And Felicity was still in a better light because Oliver has been trying to learn this lesson since season 1.