Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[kismet]

I feel like perhaps one of the crossovers in s6 or greater could establish and Earth-2 pairing of GA/BC that come through a time portal (whatever they call it) on FLASH to save the day. And that could be the entire force/plot driving that season's epic crossover. Kill multiple pretty birds with one stone. 1. It gives you a plot for 2 shows. 2. Gives the comic audience their coupling. 3. Does not require you to keep the characters or the couple for a whole season. They could just return to their own world or stay if the audience likes them. It is a genius scenario.

 

Its a very FLASHy thing to do, give fanservice and then take it away by one of the show's own anomalies. Like when they gave us Iris's big discovery I&B kissing, but took it away. ARROW could benefit from having FLASH's in show take away powers, when they do fanservice it usually has to stick or be underutilized to keep things "organic" to the show. If we're gonna play on their playground, why not use the FLASH's most convenient narrative device to simultaneously deliver & undo fanservice as well.

[Password]

I wonder if the EPs are concerned with fans who want Oliver and Laurel to get together. Like honestly? Most if any fear concerning them getting together seems external rather than the story being told.

The premiere of season 3 convinced me they're off the table. Now that is personal opinion, but so far I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

If there has been evidence the writers are doing a stellar poor job of conveying it. GA/BC being crime fighting partners? Ok. But again, I truly question how seriously the writers take fan concerns about the two.

[BkWurm1]

I feel like perhaps one of the crossovers in s6 or greater could establish and Earth-2 pairing of GA/BC that come through a time portal (whatever they call it) on FLASH to save the day. And that could be the entire force/plot driving that season's epic crossover. Kill multiple pretty birds with one stone. 1. It gives you a plot for 2 shows. 2. Gives the comic audience their coupling. 3. Does not require you to keep the characters or the couple for a whole season. They could just return to their own world or stay if the audience likes them. It is a genius scenario

 

Here's a twist.  Oliver really wants to retire from the vigilante life and write that slow cooker cookbook so when Earth 2 GA and BC come through and for reasons sadly cannot return to their world, they stay and take over the mantle of the masks, allowing Oliver to retire and Felicity to take more of an advisory capacity since she's pretty busy earning money to fund the operations. 

 

It's an ending that would both infuriate me and one I could live with (though naturally I'd no longer be watching) 

 

Duplicate Laurel from Earth 1 wouldn't be a problem.  She'd sadly die in part one of the crossover extravaganza. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by BkWurm1

[dtissagirl]

I wonder if the EPs are concerned with fans who want Oliver and Laurel to get together.

 

I'm thinking no:

 

http://topsy.com/analytics?q1=olicity&q2=lauriver&q3=nolicity&via=Topsy

 

http://topsy.com/analytics?q1=%23olicity&q2=%23lauriver&q3=%23nolicity&via=Topsy

Edited October 31, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Password]

I wonder how many of those #Lauriver tags were people bashing the couple and how many were in support.

And thank you @dtissagirl

Edited October 31, 2015 by Password

[Chaser]

Reading the top tweets are a lot of fun. In the Oliver and Laurel tag, I only found a couple positive ones. Must were negative. LL and BC ones always seem to be a sponsored one like one put out by the CW account or negative.

[wonderwall]

These Olicity soundtracks are beautiful:

 

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by wonderwall

[looptab]

These Olicity soundtracks are beautiful:

 

 

Thank you for posting them. I've been wondering when the soundtrack would come out, been waiting for the first one since the mansion scene in the S2 finale. :)

[kismet]

Inspired by bitterness thread where we were talking about romance being considered less on superhero shows.

 

For me, ARROW I think took a big dose (& imo well-deserved) of criticism in s3 because they handled the romance all wrong. It was poorly written & executed romance. It was angsty melodrama that made the plot stagnate & the characters act OOC. I have watched dramas, soap operas, rom coms, dramedies and romance heavy genre shows since before I can remember. And I have been watching the WB & CW for a few decades now. So I have seen just about every attempt on Romance being integrated into the main storyline. Some writers are amazing at it, some are not. Some writers are great at the angst part and horrible at the sweet part & vice versa. I have lived for some romances on shows and dreaded every minute a show has tried to do another romance. It really is a skill and a talent to write quality Romance that hits all the right notes for your story & your characters. I do not believe the majority of the Arrow writers have this skill or talent. There are some that have it. I am still trying to figure out who because there are great moments, but a lot of those episodes are co-written and then when that pairing switches up the quality romance is lost again. But the majority do not seem good at it.

 

The relationship between O&F for me works because of the efforts & natural chemistry of SA & EBR. If we relied on the writers to produce the Romantic Vibe of the show, we get s3. S3 was painful TV to watch from a romantic angle. It was painful from a lot of other angles, but the romance was definitely a failing grade. The angst of O&F, Raylicity, about the only romantic arc that worked in s3 was TQ & RH hooking up and that is not romance. And we got an amazing love scene. Other than that, for me I need to forget s3 happened from a romance perspective.

 

The writers need to write to their own & the actor's strengths more which is why I think we will see O&F together but their relationship will not be the main plot - because their relationship is effortless on its own. When the writers try to tweak too much with it, that is when it becomes painful to watch. I don't want all romance in superhero shows to be ostracized to the background or treat as less. But that conversation is a whole can of worms for another day. I do not mind if O&F's romantic relationship however takes more of a secondary role in ARROW, because I have seen how the writers mangle it when they put it in the primary role. O&F supportiveness & interconnectedness fuel both character's journeys and make OQ hero's story a better story. I'm not sure I would still be around in s4, if they were not a couple.

 

Them being a couple for me makes them better as individual characters. They balance out their characters' extremes. I have always loved OQ, I could probably watch him in any variation of his character. But there were parts on s3 where even I wanted to smack him over the head. I honestly couldn't stand a lot FS in s3. Everything I had enjoyed about her in previous seasons got magnified too much for me when they had her on Palmer Island. Even her interactions with OQ became challenging for me to like her at points because of how the writers wrote her around him. So for me, its almost crucial that they keep them together because without them together, imo the show & the main characters & overall story takes too big a hit. I want a quality show with real characters & amazing relationship dynamics of all kind. For me that has to have O&F together, otherwise the inter-dynamics of the show seems to fall apart and not just in the romance dept.

[lemotomato]

"And the second thing?"

"I love you."

[bijoux]

kismet, why do you think Roy and Thea aren't a romance? Granted, they weren't really together for most of the season but I always believed they loved and cared for each other, and actually managed to work as friends even after they weren't a couple. To me at least it seemed that Roy always put Thea first.

[kismet]

kismet, why do you think Roy and Thea aren't a romance? Granted, they weren't really together for most of the season but I always believed they loved and cared for each other, and actually managed to work as friends even after they weren't a couple. To me at least it seemed that Roy always put Thea first.

In my post, I was primarily talking about s3. I believe they had romance in s1 & s2, when they wrote them as an actual couple. In s3, they were friends hooking up. I love the relationship dynamic of TQ & RH, honestly it is probably the best written couple of the entire series to date. Dig & Lyla are good too, but because Lyla is not a regular character it can't really be compared to the other relationships who have to occupy weekly space.

 

But most of R/T relationship in s3 was just really good friendship & hooking up. Just because people love each other and support each other to me does not equal a romance. Romance requires actual romantic moments or moments driven by that romantic relationship. R/T had a beginning a middle and an end to their romance which was beautiful to watch. But I certainly, wouldn't classify what happened in s3 as a romance. It was a swan song to what the writers had previously written. Beautifully written and acted, but not a major romantic arc in s3 imo.

[tangerine95]

I honestly didn't find Olicity that badly written in season 3.A lot of my favorite Olicity scenes were from season 3.The only episode I really disliked was 3.17 because of all the Ray crap and how they made Felicity OOC more than ever to prop him.I thought the angst was dragged out too long and the love triangle was bad because Ray was a horrible character but I did even understand why Oliver thought he couldn't be with Felicity and I always expected those issues to come betwen them at some point.I'm glad it happened before they actually got together.For me Olicity was the best part of season 3 even though it did have issues and tbh if I wasn't as invested in them I probably would have quit the show in season 3.

[hogwash]

It will always annoy me that she didn't say it back to Oliver in The Climb. Obviously, we all know it's cause they were saving it for sweeps and trying to pretend that Ray/Felicity wasn't just an unbearably bleh rebound. But there wasn't a good reason for it in the show. It's not like it was a big secret or surprise that she has feelings for Oliver. But she knows he was going to his certain death and she doesn't tell him she loves him?!

Ugh, S03 in general and for Oliver/Felicity. In the S02 finale, these two characters realize that the intense romantic feelings that they have for each other are probably mutual. Then they go on ONE FREAKING DATE SIX MONTHS LATER!! If you could even call it a date. His reason for breaking up with her was BS. Obviously, he couldn't say "Sorry, I can't really sell this upcoming Ollie al Ghul thing with a loving girlfriend." But what we actually got was DUMB (Laurel, Helena, Sara, McKenna?). They didn't even try. "Dangling maybes" didn't work for me either. One ambiguous "I love you" and one (kinda) date barely count. Companion comics don't count. To go from the S02 finale to that in 20+ minutes was a bad move. It was all downhill from there. If that's what we were shown the first two seasons, I doubt Oliver/Felicity would have the following they have. I'm glad they're back on track now.

[apinknightmare]

They didn't even try. "Dangling maybes" didn't work for me either. One ambiguous "I love you" and one (kinda) date barely count. 

 

He did dangle maybes, though. Literally. Twice in the episode. "Remember when I told you I couldn't be with a person I could really care about? Maybe I was wrong." "I thought I could be me and the Arrow, but I can't. Not now, maybe not ever."

 

He gave her a maybe that he could be with her, and then he gave her a maybe that someday it would work out. She was asking him to make up his freaking mind.

 

 

In the S02 finale, these two characters realize that the intense romantic feelings that they have for each other are probably mutual.

 

That's not really what happened, though. Oliver led her to believe that what he told her was a trick, and then over hiatus, came to terms with what he was feeling. Kinda. 

 

I agree with you that Oliver and Felicity weren't that great in S3, but neither one of the above was part of the problem IMO.

Edited November 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

I honestly didn't find Olicity that badly written in season 3.A lot of my favorite Olicity scenes were from season 3.The only episode I really disliked was 3.17 because of all the Ray crap and how they made Felicity OOC more than ever to prop him.I thought the angst was dragged out too long and the love triangle was bad because Ray was a horrible character but I did even understand why Oliver thought he couldn't be with Felicity and I always expected those issues to come betwen them at some point.I'm glad it happened before they actually got together.For me Olicity was the best part of season 3 even though it did have issues and tbh if I wasn't as invested in them I probably would have quit the show in season 3.

Here's my question, were your favorite Olicity scenes your favorite because of the writing or the acting?

 

There were many moments in s3 for Olicity that gave me hope, but it was all actor driven not script driven. All the special moments were because of SA (& some EBR). I truly believed OQ was in love with FS and doing what he felt was best by her out of love. That feeling came from SA's performance, not the crap lines they gave him to say.

 

I liked the dangling maybes, because they felt authentic to me. The OQ before the gambit would "commit" to a relationship and then cheat & lie his way around that commitment. the new OQ did not want to do that. He wanted to be honest with FS, even if it hurt him and her in the process.

[tangerine95]

It does have a lot to do with the acting and chemistry but the writing was there too.I liked how they were written in 3.01 especially the date scene,their scene in 3.02 was also well written IMO,Oliver saying goodbye in 3.09,i liked the "I don't want to be a woman you love scene",3.16 had good moments,3.20 was a great episode for them etc.IMO the stuff that was bad about them was there when they would involve Ray and thats because they made Felicity OOC to push that relationship and sell a spinoff character.

But I agree the acting and chemistry is what really makes the couple compeling and elevates bad writing they are given sometimes.It did help that SA really sold how much Oliver loved Felicity and how it hurt him to push her away.

[looptab]

You see, I'll always mantain that it was the lousy plot that brought down the show, that forced characters to act OOC, which brought to the melodrama in S3. They had to reach an x point, and to do so y had to act a certain way. I guess it's a matter of cause and effect, and to me the not great romance was an effect, not a cause of the overall suckiness of S3. Had the story been better, the plot been tighter, we wouldn't have had what we had. The bad plotting was the cause.

Edited November 1, 2015 by looptab

[kismet]

It will always annoy me that she didn't say it back to Oliver in The Climb. Obviously, we all know it's cause they were saving it for sweeps and trying to pretend that Ray/Felicity wasn't just an unbearably bleh rebound. But there wasn't a good reason for it in the show. It's not like it was a big secret or surprise that she has feelings for Oliver. But she knows he was going to his certain death and she doesn't tell him she loves him?!

Ugh, S03 in general and for Oliver/Felicity. In the S02 finale, these two characters realize that the intense romantic feelings that they have for each other are probably mutual. Then they go on ONE FREAKING DATE SIX MONTHS LATER!! If you could even call it a date. His reason for breaking up with her was BS. Obviously, he couldn't say "Sorry, I can't really sell this upcoming Ollie al Ghul thing with a loving girlfriend." But what we actually got was DUMB (Laurel, Helena, Sara, McKenna?). They didn't even try. "Dangling maybes" didn't work for me either. One ambiguous "I love you" and one (kinda) date barely count. Companion comics don't count. To go from the S02 finale to that in 20+ minutes was a bad move. It was all downhill from there. If that's what we were shown the first two seasons, I doubt Oliver/Felicity would have the following they have. I'm glad they're back on track now.

I will forever be pissed as to why the writers did not allow FS to tell OQ she loved him in the winter finale. I think they still could have spun their angst of s3b, launched Raylicity & got their sweeps moment. All they had to do was change up the lines in NP to be "in love". The lack of FS saying she loved OQ, really took me a lot out of their romance in s3. I was getting all the angst & no romantic payoff. At moments I seriously did question if FS did have romantic feelings for OQ. Maybe I was making it all up. I knew she was attracted to him and I knew she cared & loved him. But did she really "Love" him? I spent most of the season questioning that which was frustrating because all indicators at the end of s2 & beginning of s3 was that FS was in love with OQ.

 

And then EBR went full throttle in her portrayal of FS's relationship with RP that the only way I could justify it was that FS was projecting her feelings for OQ onto RP while simultaneously trying to do everything possible to get over OQ. Even her sex scene felt like a perfect example of the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else. IDK for me it was off-putting how they wrote FS. They had OQ pining away and FS seemed rather stubborn about the whole situation. In-show they gave very few rationales as to why FS was acting the way she did. We could fanwank abandonment issues or other issues but that was likely not the case. She clearly was able to move forward and trust RP, who seemed rather untrustworthy. And she jumped at the opportunity in the finale to leave town with OQ, so clearly it was not an fear of abandonment issue.

 

But honestly though like most of s3, I would rather try not dwell too much on it, because so much of it was just for plot. There really was no character motivation behind most of what they wrote in the romance department. The actors brought us good moments, but the script left the romantic narrative down. And I too am forever grateful, they got the show got O&F back on track in s4.

[hogwash]

He did dangle maybes, though. Literally. Twice in the episode. "Remember when I told you I couldn't be with a person I could really care about? Maybe I was wrong." "I thought I could be me and the Arrow, but I can't. Not now, maybe not ever."

 

I'm meant that I find "dangling maybes" as nonsensical as Oliver's reasons for deciding to not pursue a romantic relationship with her. Obviously, Oliver's is worse and contradictory to all his romantic relationships in the first two seasons. My issue is they rushed the romantic build-up horribly to get to the breakup. It was a stupid break-up. 

 

That's not really what happened, though. Oliver led her to believe that what he told her was a trick, and then over hiatus, came to terms with what he was feeling. Kinda.

 

For most of 2B, Oliver thought Felicity was into Barry while Felicity thought Oliver was into Sara, Isabel, Laurel, anyone but her, etc. The "You and me? Talk about unthinkable" conversation seemed to be about them realizing that wasn't the whole story. That there was a possibility that they were both interested. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by hogwash

[apinknightmare]

For most of 2B, Oliver thought Felicity was into Barry while Felicity thought Oliver was into Sara, Isabel, Laurel, anyone but her, etc. The "You and me? Talk about unthinkable" conversation seemed to be about them realizing that wasn't the whole story. That there was a possibility that they were both interested. 

 

I'm pretty sure the whole conversation that Felicity and Oliver had on the beach of Lian Yu was Felicity trying to suss out whether or not Oliver meant what he said when he told her that he loved her. I think Felicity understood how she felt about Oliver, but never in a million years thought he might feel the same way. I think Oliver knew how she felt about him, but didn't want to give her any indication about how he felt about her, so he kind of left her dangling there till he worked it out himself. Which seemed like it took all summer. 

[kismet]

It does have a lot to do with the acting and chemistry but the writing was there too.I liked how they were written in 3.01 especially the date scene,their scene in 3.02 was also well written IMO,Oliver saying goodbye in 3.09,i liked the "I don't want to be a woman you love scene",3.16 had good moments,3.20 was a great episode for them etc.IMO the stuff that was bad about them was there when they would involve Ray and thats because they made Felicity OOC to push that relationship and sell a spinoff character.

But I agree the acting and chemistry is what really makes the couple compeling and elevates bad writing they are given sometimes.It did help that SA really sold how much Oliver loved Felicity and how it hurt him to push her away.

You mentioned good episodes and moments. I loved those too. The problem for me was that so much of the written plot was about RP & involved an OOC FS for the course of the whole season. So when I look at a 23 episode season and I can only list 5 or so eps that had them well-written for their relationship (even their platonic relationship), then on the whole I consider it a failure for the script. Even on the bell curve of s3, 5/23 is not a passing grade.

 

I do agree with @looptab that a lot of s3's failures were directly related to the plottiness of the season. And ultimately, the plot being wonky & all over the place. It was a disappointing narrative and plot on all fronts. O&F relationship is not what made s3 a horrible season. In fact in many ways for me it didn't even contribute to the overall failure of the season. But on the romantic front it was an absolute failure. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by kismet

[hogwash]

S03 was convoluted all around. I'm still waiting on a proper explanation on what exactly Malcolm was trying to do.

[thegirlsleuth]

I went into season three knowing Felicity was in love with Oliver, and knowing she knew she was in love with Oliver. And during the first half of season three I could understand where she might hold herself back from declaring that love when she knew that the relationship couldn't go anywhere.  But when she didn't say it back as he was heading off to his likely death or when he returned from his supposed death (more on that in a minute), I began to question whether she knew she loved him, and for me, the pep talk her mom gave her in Ray's hospital room came off as a revelation to Felicity that she did love Oliver.  And to me, this returned to the problem of bad writing, because whether she did or didn't love him, I shouldn't have been confused about it three quarters of the way into the season, but Felicity had no point-of-view in the love story through the whole season, which absolutely sucked.

 

Slight tangent:  Can i say how much I HATED the writing of Oliver's return? During Oliver's death, a lot of the onscreen grieving was done by Diggle and Felicity.   They had Oliver return in the middle of a battle and then go see Thea (a person who no idea he was "dead"), and then go reunite with the people who did the grieving, who had already processed their grief after watching Oliver on TV.  I think they structured it this way to prevent Felicity from getting an "I love you" out before Oliver announced he's working with Merlyn, but in the end I think it neutered the emotional impact of Oliver's return from the dead. 

 

One thing I liked in season three:  I never doubted that Oliver's love for Felicity wavered, and really liked the fact that despite the fact that he didn't like her dating Palmer, he truly seemed to try to let her go to live a free and happy life.  The love without possessiveness thing was really wonderful.

Edited November 1, 2015 by thegirlsleuth

[kismet]

I went into season three knowing Felicity was in love with Oliver, and knowing she knew she was in love with Oliver. And during the first half of season three I could understand where she might hold herself back from declaring that love when she knew that the relationship couldn't go anywhere.  But when she didn't say it back as he was heading off to his likely death or when he returned from his supposed death (more on that in a minute), I began to question whether she knew she loved him, and for me, the pep talk her mom gave her in Ray's hospital room came off as a revelation to Felicity that she did love Oliver.  And to me, this returned to the problem of bad writing, because whether she did or didn't love him, I shouldn't have been confused about it three quarters of the way into the season, but Felicity had no point-of-view in the love story through the whole season, which absolutely sucked.

 

Slight tangent:  Can i say how much I HATED the writing of Oliver's return? During Oliver's death, a lot of the onscreen grieving was done by Diggle and Felicity.   They had Oliver return in the middle of a battle and then go see Thea (a person who no idea he was "dead"), and then go reunite with the people who did the grieving, who had already processed their grief after watching Oliver on TV.  I think they structured it this way to prevent Felicity from getting an "I love you" out before Oliver announced he's working with Merlyn, but in the end I think it neutered the emotional impact of Oliver's return from the dead. 

 

One thing I liked in season three:  I never doubted that Oliver's love for Felicity wavered, and really liked the fact that despite the fact that he didn't like her dating Palmer, he truly seemed to try to let her go to live a free and happy life.  The love without possessiveness thing was really wonderful.

Thank you :) Your 1st paragraph - glad I wasn't the only one. Your last paragraph - the only saving grace of the s3 O/F love story minus their night in NP. I loved this part of the story & it is a testament to how much OQ did love FS and wanted her to be happy.

 

The breakdown for how they had OQ reconnect in the Return was just horrible and done only to set-up the alleyway scene. But it was typical plot over substance writing wonkiness that defined s3.

Edited November 1, 2015 by kismet

[AyChihuahua]

I'm enjoying reading this discussion, and you guys are making really interesting points.  It's just, God, S3 sucked so much, in basically every possible way, that it feels exhausting to try to rank who/what/which sucked worse.  I will say that I'm on board that Oliver obviously was truly in love with Felicity and never wavered, and I liked that, while I personally wasn't at all sure that she was truly in love with him.  

[Password]

While I'll admit I was deep side eyeing Felicity when she fell for Ray's shenanigans, I feel like the real problem lay with us not hearing Felicity's POV. Oliver could pine and ILY all he wanted, but dude wasn't giving her anything to hold onto. In fact he gave her NOTHING to hold onto except an ILY and death (which b-t dubs I'm still annoyed at that entire Oliver died and TA said OK).

Oliver could tell Diggle he wasn't happy about Ray, Felicity could only SHOW us her moving on? Projecting? Actually falling for Mr. No Boundaries?

I actually think Felicity knew about her feelings for Oliver but there wasn't anything happening on that front. He repeatedly put the brakes on anything happening. When her mom said you love Oliver she didn't look confused. In fact she said "he's not available". Not, whaaaa I totes love Ray. But he's not available, and he wasn't. Also, she told Oliver HE put the skids under them in that great episode 16 after he returned from saving Merlyn.

Haha actually I feel like I did just work out her POV, concerning Oliver anyway. Ray? Well that's still out for debate. Rebound? Projection? A desperate need for someone to be in her corner? Eh. I'm avoiding actual feelings for him because he's Ray. Hahahaha I'm still so bitter.

[kismet]

One in-script I love OQ from FS before his death was what was needed. She could have even told it to Dig during their 1 conversation about it in s3a. She could have responded to Dig. Something along the lines of "I love OQ, but until he decides to accept that we could be together that is irrelevant". Boom, we know how FS feels. It still is all OQ's fault (the mantra of ARROW). That scene was just crying for FS to say more than "did Oliver say this". It also would have made Dig seem like he was not just team Oliver, because if FS trusted him with her reveal, than it would imply that she believes their friendship is a two-way street that can sustain this level of emotional reveal.

[BkWurm1]

My point of view on what Felicity felt toward Oliver was that she knew she loved him and then he took everything back and despite what she said about it being over the moment they talked about it, she was holding out hope.  Her hope took several hits though, with Cupid and then the biggest one, with Oliver returning and deciding to work with Malcolm.  I think she at that point TRIED to stop loving Oliver or rather tried to stop being IN love with him.  She threw herself into her relationship with Ray and stopped asking herself if she loved Oliver.  She was convinced that was off the table and just pissed at him enough to think she wouldn't want him anyway and then the anger faded and they were finally getting to a place where the dynamic between she and Oliver felt normal and then Ray was sent to the hospital and through the whole ordeal she'd balanced both her worry for Ray and her fear for Oliver and the team and then Ray made a declaration and suddenly in that moment she realized that nothing had changed for her, she was still in love with Oliver and she wasn't in love with Ray even if her head told her she should be.

 

That's also how I justify her not immediately breaking up with Ray.  Not only, not wanting to kick him when he was down, but it wasn't as if her realizing she was still in love with Oliver suddenly changed their chance to be together.  She liked Ray and her head was still telling her he was perfect so why be rash when it was bad timing on so many fronts?

 

So to from my viewpoint, Felicity did go through a period where she thought she could make herself get over Oliver but had the wake up call that that wasn't going to happen. 

[AyChihuahua]

One in-script I love OQ from FS before his death was what was needed. She could have even told it to Dig during their 1 conversation about it in s3a. She could have responded to Dig. Something along the lines of "I love OQ, but until he decides to accept that we could be together that is irrelevant". Boom, we know how FS feels. 

I would have been fine with her even saying it after he fake-died in 3.9.  She could have just said to Digg or even herself alone in the Foundry: "I loved him."  Easy peasy.  Otherwise everything is basically inferring from some not-great hints.  I mean, I get, obviously, that she wanted something with him, bc she said yes to the date.  But agreeing to go on a date with someone does not equal being in love with that person.  

 

I will also never be okay with how quickly they moved on from his fake-death, and particularly his joining the LOA.  Felicity was joking (black humor, I get it, but still humor) about him becoming Darth Oliver in the next episode.  So two thoughts: first, why would they ever believe this heroic man was just going to chill as the leader as a group of evil assassins; and second, why were they basically cool with that?  Out-of-show, I get it, they burn through plot on this show and have no time for feelings, blah blah, but in-show they just basically don't seem to give much of a crap about him.  (By the end of the season I agreed with them, but at that point I still loved the big dumb pine tree.)

Edited November 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I would have been fine with her even saying it after he fake-died in 3.9.  She could have just said to Digg or even herself alone in the Foundry: "I loved him."  Easy peasy.  Otherwise everything is basically inferring from some not-great hints.  I mean, I get, obviously, that she wanted something with him, bc she said yes to the date.  But agreeing to go on a date with someone does not equal being in love with that person.  

 

I will also never be okay with how quickly they moved on from his fake-death, and particularly his joining the LOA.  Felicity was joking (black humor, I get it, but still humor) about him becoming Darth Oliver in the next episode.  So two thoughts: first, why would they ever believe this heroic man was just going to chill as the leader as a group of evil assassins; and second, why were they basically cool with that?  Out-of-show, I get it, they burn through plot on this show and have no time for feelings, blah blah, but in-show they just basically don't seem to give much of a crap about him.  (By the end of the season I agreed with them, but at that point I still loved the big dumb pine tree.)

I would have taken it then too. Or a tearful, "I never got to say say I loved him" which is honestly what I was expecting. But I think FS is a woman of action, esp after meeting OQ, so if she felt that way she would have done something to get him to see straight. If she admitted it to herself or others than OQ's colonic behavior regarding their relationship would probably not have been acceptable. Hence the morning after poisoning rescue attempt. But if FS stays in the dark about her emotions, than the writers can keep her from doing what FS would do which would be to confront the situation head on.

 

Yea, I don't understand how they moved on so quickly after his joining LoA. I got it after his fake death because they either were still holding out hope or trying to live up to his legacy. But the way they treated him after his return. I have no explanation for that. He didn't abandon them willingly. He was trying to save his sister and then he was recovering from a grave injury. It still kinda annoys me that the writers never wrote in a moment where they show his team just how bad his injuries were. He wasn't able to help them defeat Brick, but it wasn't like he was on a beach somewhere drinking pina coladas.

Edited November 1, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

I'll be the exception then -- I actually liked that Felicity didn't say "I love you" until it was something positive. [Also until she could DO something about it, heh.] I also didn't doubt for a second that she loved Oliver before that, so it doesn't bother me.

 

It does bother me that she didn't have a voice in S3 *at all*, but that goes beyond her saying the words to Oliver. And I realize that even if I didn't doubt her love for Oliver, the general audience could have used someone -- anyone -- Felicity could talk to that meant she could get out of her head. Talking to Barry on another show doesn't count.

Edited November 2, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Genki]

But the way they treated him after his return. I have no explanation for that. He didn't abandon them willingly. He was trying to save his sister and then he was recovering from a grave injury. It still kinda annoys me that the writers never wrote in a moment where they show his team just how bad his injuries were. He wasn't able to help them defeat Brick, but it wasn't like he was on a beach somewhere drinking pina coladas.

 

Agree, I hope they ease up on the everyone pile on Oliver scenes, which was started after his return from the dead. A scene of them acknowledging the horror of the Fall for Oliver would have been appreciated.

 

In the last episode it Team Arrow-less' reaction to Oliver's Mayoral run was meant to be an amusing scene, and if it isn't considered in broader context of the show, it is, [even Laurel's little quips would have been funny, if we didn't know she was being a crazy, lying, selfish hypocrite]. However ever since Oliver returned form the dead they have been having way too many of these types of scenes. [Not to mention snide remarks from Joe on the Flash]. And this year too many snipes at Oliver being Judge-y and Bossy and assuming the leadership mantel without acknowledging that he has the experience, skills and history, to back some if it up.

 

This year is luckily offset by Felicity's unconditional support, Thea usually steps up after she is away form Laurel's influence, and Diggle has hopefully move on from the Lyla-napping. 

 

I think it really is Laurel's addition into the Lair that makes the dynamic so harsh on Oliver. When Felicity made the quip about Dig being move evolved than Oliver it was cute and funny, because there was an underlying affection int he scene. Since LL does not project much warmth between the crossed arms and RBF, snipes at Oliver are not fun, or good natured to me as a viewer. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Genki

[kismet]

I'll be the exception then -- I actually liked that Felicity didn't say "I love you" until it was something positive. [Also until she could DO something about it, heh.] I also didn't doubt for a second that she loved Oliver before that, so it doesn't bother me.

 

It does bother me that she didn't have a voice in S3 *at all*, but that goes beyond her saying the words to Oliver. And I realize that even if I didn't doubt her love for Oliver, the general audience could have used someone -- anyone -- Felicity could talk to that meant she could get out of her head. Talking to Barry on another show doesn't count.

Now I'm just running through so many different ways she could have told OQ is a positive way and have them still not be together. And it definitely could have worked. His reasons for not wanting to be with her were valid in his mind and to a certain extent my opinion. OQ has made it pretty clear that vigilanting as the Arrow was not a life. And he loved FS and wanted her to have a life. I also think OQ had no idea about the depth of FSs emotions and I do wonder if he would have made the same decisions. I think all of the major plot events still would have happened. It just would have been heartbreaking to know that both people were in love with each other but putting the mission first. Or in FS's case her putting the mission & pursuit of happiness above the fear of failure.

 

On a fundamental level, her having no voice at all in s3 was a major misstep. And it definitely had a negative impact on the show.

[lexicon]

I think a major part of the problems with s3 was that it was written to service the hero arcs of people other than Oliver Queen. Oliver was sidelined and his story was pretzled and contorted to fit the needs of others. Felicity and Diggle barely had a conversation so that she could be isolated enough to turn to Ray. Oliver 'died' and they use that to prompt LL joining the team and for RP and FS to bond over having lost people and fighting on for the greater good. This was why imo, the team mourned so much more when he left to join the LOA than when he 'died' because now LL and RP had already donned their suits, so it was okay to return the focus to Oliver. It's the same reason why Felicity and Thea didn't get to share a conversation until the Al Sahim arc.

 

I didn't doubt Felicity's feeling for Oliver and applauded her for standing her ground when it came to him but  by the same token, when the man you love, says I love You before he leaves to go off to certain death, you either return the sentiment or you rue the missed opportunity. Poor Felicity was not able to do either one because TPTB decided that her onscreen time after finding out that Oliver 'died' would be better spent convincing LL not to give up and helping RP get his suit working. 

[dtissagirl]

I don't know. I didn't want the angst and the drama and the CRAZY EYES OF DOOM, so if the tone of the season had been something else entirely?

 

But I do think they were doing something with the "I love you"s. They had narrative value. And I do like the contrast between Oliver being able to say the words so easily because he wouldn't do anything about it anyway, and Felicity not being able to vocalize her feelings to him UNTIL she could do something about it.

[Sakura12]

Paul Blackthrone just posted his take on the Lance Family background on his facebook about Sara's birthday being on Christmas. According to him Sara plays the piano. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialPaulBlackthorne/posts/442813352596492

[Chaser]

Paul Blackthrone just posted his take on the Lance Family background on his facebook about Sara's birthday being on Christmas. According to him Sara plays the piano. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialPaulBlackthorne/posts/442813352596492

Don't get sappy. It has implications and you not the Lance I want in the ground.

[SmallScreenDiva]

God bless the man for creating such a detailed background for his family. And yes, I'm wlilfully ignoring what this could mean. #SaveQuentin2K15

Edited November 2, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Guest]

That's a bit random to post now. Like whaaaaaat? Why now?

 

Edit: Wait. I know why now. Never mind.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Guest

[kismet]

That's a bit random to post now. Like whaaaaaat? Why now?

 

Edit: Wait. I know why now. Never mind.

I feel like they are filming the Holiday episodes now aren't they? Or just finished filming them. I do not want to believe it has any other implications. And @SmallScreenDiva I too am on the #SaveQuentin2K15 train.

[Guest]

I feel like they are filming the Holiday episodes now aren't they? Or just finished filming them. I do not want to believe it has any other implications. And @SmallScreenDiva I too am on the #SaveQuentin2K15 train.

 

I initially thought it might have something to do with what they're filming but now I think it might be more about the upcoming episode and saving Sara's soul and all of that. 

[TrueMyth]

I'm curious if Felicity and Oliver will ever have a talk about money.  So far, Felicity seems to have funded a large suburban house, at least a portion of a world tour of sexy times, a truck, a downtown building, an underground lair, and Oliver's start-up election costs.  While I think they both get a kick out of the dynamics right now, I do think Oliver can't be that good with money, and Felicity never had much and her company is supposedly in difficult times.

 

I realize it probably won't come up on the show because the writers seem to have less of a grasp of this than Oliver (given the "he's lost all his money/naw that just means he's a millionaire not a billionaire" attitude of season 3), but I'd like to see them address the disparity in their world views.

 

Maybe I just have to look for it in fanfic. 

[Primal Slayer]

I would like to see it addressed since they seem to just be burning through money like it aint nothing.

[apinknightmare]

Felicity inherited a conglomerate, along with all of its holdings and real estate. All of that had to give her bank account a boost, regardless of how PT is performing. It doesn't matter to me if they address it, since it'll probably make about as much sense as the Queens losing everything in the Rochev debacle.

[BkWurm1]

I think they keep mentioning the money they are spending so as we go along it ups the tension and the desperate need to come up with a company saving tech as they get closer to their six month deadline to present their new cutting edge tech to save the company.

 

Why Ray once found doesn't just explain his medical repairing nano bots, I'll never know. 

[AyChihuahua]

I think they keep mentioning the money they are spending so as we go along it ups the tension and the desperate need to come up with a company saving tech as they get closer to their six month deadline to present their new cutting edge tech to save the company.

 

Why Ray once found doesn't just explain his medical repairing nano bots, I'll never know. 

Or go cultivate the freaking LIan Yu cure-everything herbs.  BILLIONS, right there!

[kismet]

Seriously OQ should go into organic pharmaceuticals!

 

But perhaps that will be a s5 career option when they get tired of writing mayor stories. OQ gets a new career every season, we need to save something for s5.

[dtissagirl]

Sign that prenup, Felicity!

[tennisgurl]

I really love how they have been writing Olicity lately. No more constant angst, crying, and drama. Its just them being happy together, and respectful and supportive.

 

It wont last, but its nice while we have it.