Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[kismet]

Which is why i dont find it weird that Digg ended up telling Laurel about it. She is a safer option since he knows she won't try to interfere (at least for the time being)

I'm glad you & JD can trust LL to not interfere. The last 2 secrets I remember being told to LL she acted upon them immediately. In s2, she would have told QL the Arrow's identity if he had not begged her not to tell him. And in s4, she immediately grabbed a shovel and body snatched her own sister.

 

About the only secret she has been able to keep is hers about SL in s3 because it protected her. And MQ's, of course she benefited from it having to come out on the stand within the next 18hrs or so, but she did display self-restraint.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't trust LL with secrets. It is nearly show canon, that there is a valid reason we don't tell LL things. First with the Lances keeping SL's return & then all of TA's mission related secrets. Both her family & her friends, often don't tell her secrets, that says something.She tends to blab about them or overact impulsively. But maybe this was JDs plan all along. Tell LL and let laurel be laurel. Secret out and LL takes the body blow from OQ/FS's anger.

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel chose her fathers safety and freedom over Olivers when she found out he was the Arrow. Who knows what she would have done if he weren't in that situation or if Oliver had opened up to her about who he was. She also didn't kept hers sisters death a secret from her father in fear that it may kill him. Yeah she happened to go to the extreme but her heart was in the right place and ys when it comes to her family she jumps firsts and asks questions later and it is something that she totally needs to work on but she can be trusted with others secrets that don't involve her family being in danger.

[wonderwall]

If @wonderwall went through the trouble of looking all of them up, then by Grabthar's hammer, they're going to be posted.

 

Thank you :') We;re now board buddies 4 lyf. 

 

No take backsies.

[BkWurm1]

I really, really hope that Diggle being cold to Felicity is a deliberate writing choice and not because the writers have forgotten about their friendship.  I hope someone who has tumblr asks MG.

 

Well, I sent an ask.  IF there is a response I kind of expect something to the effect of "Watch episode three".  So keep those expectations low. 

 

This was what I sent, FYI

 

Am loving this season and everything I hear coming has me excited.  Curious though, is the distance, dare I say coldness we've seen from Diggle toward Felicity a deliberate writing choice or just an accident of writing?  He's mad at Oliver but he's not said one nice thing to her or smiled at her let alone given her a hug since she's been back and she keeps trying and he seems to ignore her.  He even left her high five hanging in the start of episode.  What's going on with our guy?

[TwistedandBored]

The main reason why Diggle told Laurel about his secret research into HIVE and not Oliver/Felicity is because the plot required it. It is like Slade Wilson telling Laurel about Oliver being the Arrow just because. Arrow writers do this all the time especially when they want to delay storylines or introduce new ones. 

 

 

Also, I better get Diggle and Felicity soon. 

[icandigit]

People should be allowed their secrets.

 

BUT -- Sara asked Oliver not to tell her family that she was still alive in order to protect them.  Diggle not telling about HIVE puts everyone in more danger.  I think everyone was wrong to let Laurel tell them not to tell Quentin.  Laurel did know that Thea was on the brink of death, she just didn't know how she got better. When was Laurel targeted?

 

I don't have a problem with Diggle telling Laurel about his brother's murder and the connection to HIVE.  My problem is that he didn't tell Oliver as soon as Oliver connected HIVE to DD.  Thea even said episode 4x01 that they don't have anything on the ghosts.  Letting the Team know about HIVE and getting Felicity on researching them could have given them an advantage they didn't have before.

 

If Diggle is not telling because he's still pissed off at Oliver and in connection with Felicity, well then Laurel wasn't the only one who made bad decisions in that episode.

 

THIS.

 

I can understand why Diggle didn't tell Oliver or Felicity if it was something on the backburner. and he was waiting till he knew more to do something. But if he did want to find the person who put the hit on his brother and why, Felicity would really have helped.  She's the Queen of Research and hacking.

 

Yeah. But, someone mentioned in the fandom before. He's still waiting for his bing search results.

[statsgirl]

Well, I sent an ask.  IF there is a response I kind of expect something to the effect of "Watch episode three".  So keep those expectations low.

LOL, I sent a tweet to WM yesterday.

I think I'll try an Ask Ausiello too. Maybe if they get the question from enough directions, we'll get an answer.

[SmallScreenDiva]

LOL, I sent a tweet to WM yesterday.

I think I'll try an Ask Ausiello too. Maybe if they get the question from enough directions, we'll get an answer.

 

Great idea! I'll do that, too.

[lemotomato]

I actually tried to defend Oliver... they said that Oliver should have let Thea die for Killing Sara. Then Laurel wouldn't resurrect Sara because Thea never would have been resurrected.Then Laurel could have comfort Oliver because they both lost a sister.

I like how, following this logic, nearly everyone that Oliver loves has to die for L/O to happen. Sara would have to stay dead, Thea would have to be dead for Laurel and Oliver to have something to bond over, and Felicity would have to die because Oliver's so in love with her. Truly an OTP to root for.

[tarotx]

I won't say which poster it was with but it was in a facebook group...

Edited October 18, 2015 by tarotx

[lemotomato]

Psst... might want to delete that. I don't think we're supposed to talk about other forums.

[tarotx]

Ok thanks :)

Psst... might want to delete that. I don't think we're supposed to talk about other forums.

[AyChihuahua]

I like how, following this logic, nearly everyone that Oliver loves has to die for L/O to happen. Sara would have to stay dead, Thea would have to be dead for Laurel and Oliver to have something to bond over, and Felicity would have to die because Oliver's so in love with her. Truly an OTP to root for.

It would also be best, really, for Sandra and her kid to die, since the kid was conceived when Oliver was dating Laurel.  Preferably before anyone finds out about them.  I mean, why put that additional stress on the burgeoning L/O relationship, right?  It'd just be best for everyone.

[EmeraldArcher]

I'm trying not to be paranoid about LoLoliver ever happening again, but when Thea asked Oliver if he was trying to be "Ollie 2.0," and he responded that he was trying to be a better Original!Ollie, I had a moment of panic because the camera focused on LL standing in the doorway. Boy was I relieved when she then lied to his face, manipulated his vulnerable sister, and dug up her own sister's corpse immediately after--They really can't ever intend them to reunite romantically, right? Right?! How they go from that to him ever being her friend again takes more imagination than my feeble brain can manage.

All of my vitriol aside for the moment, I love how Oliver and Felicity could never succeed in lying to each other, even when the stakes were high. I love how they've made a real commitment to be honest and open. I love that Oliver is ALWAYS saying "we" and that he makes small gestures like putting the phone on speaker so Felicity can hear with him. In the old days, he would have taken the call and filtered the information to her at his discretion or thoughtlessly barked at an order in a tone that reacted to the call and failed to consider its effect on her feelings.

[lemotomato]

It would also be best, really, for Sandra and her kid to die, since the kid was conceived when Oliver was dating Laurel.  Preferably before anyone finds out about them.  I mean, why put that additional stress on the burgeoning L/O relationship, right?  It'd just be best for everyone.

Digg might have to go too. Sure, he's BFFs with Laurel now, but he was pretty vocally critical of O/L in seasons 1 and 2. Can't risk having him around whispering poison in Oliver's ear.

[apinknightmare]

I'm trying not to be paranoid about LoLoliver ever happening again, but when Thea asked Oliver if he was trying to be "Ollie 2.0," and he responded that he was trying to be a better Original!Ollie, I had a moment of panic because the camera focused on LL standing in the doorway. Boy was I relieved when she then lied to his face, manipulated his vulnerable sister, and dug up her own sister's corpse immediately after--They really can't ever intend them to reunite romantically, right? Right?! How they go from that to him ever being her friend again takes more imagination than my feeble brain can manage.

 

Yeah, that was a really weird line - not relative to Laurel, but just in general. I wasn't sure if it was strange writing, or some kind of signal that he considers all these versions of himself (Ollie, Oliver, Arrow, Green Arrow, whatever) to be the same person, but...that doesn't really make sense. 

[tangerine95]

I think that line was more for Thea.Like he's still the brother she knew and grew up with only trying to be a better person.I don't think it had anything to do with Laurel.Any version of Laurel and Oliver are horrible to each other even as friends.

Edited October 18, 2015 by tangerine95

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I think it was for Thea, too.

 

I'm always so totally zen about L/O, because (1) I truly don't believe it will ever happen; and (2) I would just stop watching.  Not even rage quit.  I'd just realize Arrow and I are not compatible.

[Chaser]

Have we gotten any insight into Oliver and Thea's pre-island days? I can't remember anything specific.

[tangerine95]

Yeah, I think it was for Thea, too.

 

I'm always so totally zen about L/O, because (1) I truly don't believe it will ever happen; and (2) I would just stop watching.  Not even rage quit.  I'd just realize Arrow and I are not compatible.

Me too.I don't think it would ever happen and if they ever tried it I would quit watching but still make fun of all they would have to do to get them there.Like all the retcon and characters killed off or regressed to make it work lol.Also I can't even imagine SA having to talk up Lauriver again,that would just be sad and hilarious.

[EmeraldArcher]

I think that line was more for Thea.Like he's still the brother she knew and grew up with only trying to be a better person.I don't think it had anything to do with Laurel.Any version of Laurel and Oliver are horrible to each other even as friends.

I like this interpretation and it is consistent with his perspective in S1 when he was still pining for Laurel--that he hasn't changed so much as "scraped away" all of that other stuff to reveal True!Ollie.  It is a nice sentiment on his part in reassuring Thea and that his love for her has always been genuine and a constant for both of them.

 

I just wish that every opening voice over in which he claims he needed to become someone else, something else didn't contradict the sentiment. I do think that line was weird and was just kidding about Laurel (even though they've positioned Felicity to enter a scene when he drops an anvil so we'd know for sure it was an anvil).  Maybe Oliver needs to reassure himself as much as Thea--if I had the perspective of distance and maturity, I'd want to try to reassure myself that although I might have improved with maturity, I didn't become a completely different person altogether. I'm going to stop here though, because I might confuse myself with my own convoluted philosophical musings. ;-)

[wonderwall]

One argument I will never understand is that LL also cares about Thea but she clearly doesn't: 

 

Edited October 19, 2015 by wonderwall

[tangerine95]

One argument I will never understand is that LL also cares about Thea but she clearly doesn't: 

 

This scene makes me sick.Laurel hears this and still takes her to Nanda Parbat.She doesn't care about Thea at all.She didn't even disscus it with Thea first.Also they way she casually lies to Oliver after seeing how worried he is about Thea is just horrible.

[SmallScreenDiva]

To borrow (and slightly alter) Felicity's words from last season: I don't want to be a person Laurel Lance loves (or cares for). 

[GHfan]

I love Oliver and Laurel!

[Angel12d]

I'm sure LL does care about Thea in her own way. She wouldn't let her live with her otherwise. But in that scene from 402 in particular, helping Thea was basically the last thing on her mind, IMO. It was not a good moment for LL at all. Sorry.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Angel12d

[manbearpig]

One argument I will never understand is that LL also cares about Thea but she clearly doesn't: 

 

 

I bet people who see this image out of context would think it was from some teen drama and that Thea was pregnant or something...

[apinknightmare]

There's no doubt (for me) that Laurel cares about Thea. But the way they set up the whole trip to Nanda Parbat makes it seem like Laurel's biggest concern is getting Sara in that pit, Thea be damned. I get that they were going for Laurel being able to help Thea AND get Sara back, but they failed IMO. They made that situation messy when it really didn't need to be.

Edited October 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[KirkB]

Laurel's biggest concern is making herself feel better. What it does to Sara or Thea isn't even on her radar and won't be unless/until the whole thing blows up in her face.

[Morrigan2575]

Laurel's biggest concern is making herself feel better. What it does to Sara or Thea isn't even on her radar and won't be unless/until the whole thing blows up in her face.

 

Yep.  While I have no doubt that Laurel cares for others it's totally dwarfed by her self-centered/egocentric view of the world.  Laurel cares about Thea but she cares about what she wants more.  Laurel cares about Sara but only to the extent of that SHE wants Sara back.  She has no care/concern for what Sara will be like or forced to endure when she's back.  

 

It's like the whole reason they set up for Laurel to become Because Comics, she did it to make herself feel better, beating up bad guys was just another drug for Laurel (and that's both from the script and KC's interviews).  

Edited October 19, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[BunsenBurner]

Forget the pit. Think about It, being brought back to life after being truly dead for a year is going to mess with your mind for the rest of your life. It boggles my mind to even think about it.

Of course Sara could become an author and write wonderfully scary books about the afterlife because she actually lived it or died it or whatever.

[TwistedandBored]

Yeah, I think it was for Thea, too.

 

I'm always so totally zen about L/O, because (1) I truly don't believe it will ever happen; and (2) I would just stop watching.  Not even rage quit.  I'd just realize Arrow and I are not compatible.

 

This soo much. I would just be totally out of this whole universe and be done with it's bad plots. 

 

I love Oliver and Laurel!

 

Um...good for you?

[Primal Slayer]

I'd be interested to see how they would write L/O if they ever got back together. Would it just be the same old same old? Would they actually come up with something new and interesting for them? Probably would just be same old same old though.

[apinknightmare]

Their biggest problem would be coming up with a believable reason for them to ever want to get back together again. 

[AyChihuahua]

Their biggest problem would be coming up with a believable reason for them to ever want to get back together again. 

Zombie apocalypse leaving every other person in the entire world dead?

[kismet]

Zombie apocalypse leaving every other person in the entire world dead?

Crossover opportunity!! :)

[Primal Slayer]

Shame they couldn't just crossover with Supernatural. Laurel could hit up her old pals, Sam & Dean.

[AyChihuahua]

Crossover opportunity!! :)

Would you really want to watch that?

[wonderwall]

I don't think that would've worked because apparently KC/JP/DA never got along, hence, her being booted from the show and being replaced by the then GC. 

[AyChihuahua]

Didn't JP and JA make fun of her a few times?  And Kim Manners publicly called her one of the most uncoordinated people he'd ever worked with?

 

(They shouldn't make fun of her, and speaking as an uncoordinated person (I actually managed to punch myself in the face once), I am not saying that is inherently a bad thing.  It is a problem when the person is portraying a physically capable superhero, though.)

[Morrigan2575]

Didn't JP and JA make fun of her a few times?  And Kim Manners publicly called her one of the most uncoordinated people he'd ever worked with?

 

Not sure about JP/JA but yes Kim Manners said she was horribly uncoordinated

[Starfish35]

I don't think that would've worked because apparently KC/JP/DA never got along, hence, her being booted from the show and being replaced by the then GC.

Really? I didn't know that. The rumor I heard (I think on the old TWoP boards) was that it was because of the DUI she got (that one where she was pulled over and didn't have ID and gave another actress's name).

But that does make one wonder. If she and JP didn't get along, and SA and JP are good friends....

Edited October 19, 2015 by Starfish35

[AyChihuahua]

I think it was something about how everybody on set gets along and plays tricks and jokes (and I've seen the SPN BTS videos from back when it was my favorite show often enough to know that was pretty true, especially of JP and JA), and that she was just not having it. 

 

Re the arrest in which KC gave the other actress's name, it was the brunette who played the art curator in an S1 episode with the haunted painting.  She was Sam's first post-Jess kiss.  She came back years later and Crowley killed her, which was one of my final straws for the show.  I think KC knew her from some other show.

 

Giving a false name when being arrested is a fairly big deal, so KC is lucky she didn't end up in jail for that one. 

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/celebrity/lying-starlets-boozy-bust

Edited October 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

Would you really want to watch that?

Nope, I was being sarcastic. See I really need an icon for sarcasm. :) I don't really watch anything with zombies in it. But you know if the show wanted to expand I guess they could find a zombie show to crossover onto. Their love song is "Radioactive" so perhaps they could survive an apocalypses and be the most miserable two people left with no one else to hook up with. I still see OQ going into monk mode again before ever turning to LL. I wouldn't stick around to watch it, but who knows what the writers will want to do.

 

The moment they start writing L&O back together is the end of the show, so frankly I don't have worry about it because the show will be ending. Unless they are going for the played out triangle route in the latter seasons, but even then I'll probably be out. These writers suck at love triangles and I don't have the patience for their melodrama. Honestly, never say never  - they could write LL & OQ back together but I predict it would be something they would not do willingly or without exhausting every other romantic option possible. I also predict that SA might throw a hissy fit and get his team to put the kabosh on it or he would be out or have some major changes in his contact/money.

 

Besides, I still think

LL will be dead by the end of the season. If they can't get rid of KC, maybe she could play a BC from an AU. But then there wouldn't be the need to write them together. Also unless KC's or SA's acting has changed it doesn't fix the problem of their romantic anti-chemistry.

[Starfish35]

Aww, Crowley killed her? I didn't know that. I liked her. :(

But yeah, that's the incident I was thinking of.

[AyChihuahua]

Aww, Crowley killed her? I didn't know that. I liked her. :(

But yeah, that's the incident I was thinking of.

I liked her too.  She was gorgeous, and brave, and warm, and she had great chemistry with Sam.  Crowley was killing people Sam and Dean had saved in the past.  I remember the brother they saved from the Wendigo was killed, and Crowley nearly killed the sheriff.  But the thing with the art curator was the worst, both because I really liked her and because they went to the trouble of letting us know she was happily married to a paramedic and had a child.  She even told Sam after him she realized she had a type: heroes.  It was frigging awful.  That show is so terrible to its women characters.

[Primal Slayer]

I don't think that would've worked because apparently KC/JP/DA never got along, hence, her being booted from the show and being replaced by the then GC. 

But they got along though.

[wonderwall]

But they got along though.

It's just what I heard during my supernatural days. I remember being bummed about KC leaving the show because I liked her version of Ruby and heard on boards that the cast and her weren't exactly on the best of terms. I could easily be wrong. But it says a lot that they never talk on social media. 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm not surprise that they didn't really keep in contact but Katie has talked about them and they reunited at some CW event last year I believe.

[BkWurm1]

Really? I didn't know that. The rumor I heard (I think on the old TWoP boards) was that it was because of the DUI she got (that one where she was pulled over and didn't have ID and gave another actress's name).

But that does make one wonder. If she and JP didn't get along, and SA and JP are good friends....

Just an FYI, it was not a DUI.  She was a passenger.  It was for underage drinking when she was 20.  Giving the name of someone else is a bad idea but it was 8 years ago.