Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[lemotomato]

It didn't make sense, but at least there was a vague plot reason for his comment. You know what *really* didn't make sense in that episode? Sara's "Oliver needs you" comment to Laurel right before she left at the end. I just about gagged at how embarrassingly 'ship-baiting (and completely nonsensical in-show) that line was.

Edited July 8, 2015 by lemotomato

[tangerine95]

It didn't make sense, but at least there was a vague plot reason for his comment. You know what *really* didn't make sense in that episode? Sara's "Oliver needs you" comment to Laurel right before she left at the end. I just about gagged at how embarrassingly 'ship-baiting that line was.

yeah I hated that too.But having seen season 3 its clear she meant as a friend.Though I think even that is not true.The two of them bring out the worst in each other and Oliver this season seemed to not want her there.

[SmallScreenDiva]

That whole "person you love the most" thing was idiotic. The plus side is that it did provide me with the scene that makes me cackle more than any other on this show: when Slade is on the comms with Oliver and he tells Oliver that he's got the one that he loves, and if Oliver doesn't meet him when and where he says, he's going to kill her. Thinking that Slade's talking about Laurel (because he doesn't know that Slade has Felicity yet), he says, "You do what you have to." LMAO. 

 

Not that I think Oliver would've really let him kill her, but damn, son. OTP AMIRITE?

 

There's another funny scene along the same vein before that one. It's when Captain Lance goes to QC to tell the Arrow and Sara that Laurel was taken. Oliver says "the city comes first" or something like that (to be fair, they just got the news that Slade's men were attempting to leave Starling). Then Quentin turns his plea to Sara and she didn't say anything either, LOL! I mean, she should have had some kind of reaction other than what, to me, looked almost like a helpless shrug. Another reason I can never buy into the Lances sisterly bond.

[Angel12d]

To be fair though, I thought both Oliver and Sara's reactions to Laurel being taken in 2x23 was a bit weird. Since s1 we'd seen plenty of moments where Oliver was worried about Laurel (although this did lessen once he'd kind of washed his hands of her) and then earlier in s2, Sara was almost frantic about Laurel's safety. I mean, even as late as 'Birds of Prey' she basically went against Oliver's suggestion in how to handle Helena and decided to save Laurel herself because she was in danger. So the both of them suddenly being a bit blasé about her safety with Slade, of all people, was strange. Even though it does make me LOL, Oliver's reaction in particular. 

[lemotomato]

yeah I hated that too.But having seen season 3 its clear she meant as a friend.Though I think even that is not true.The two of them bring out the worst in each other and Oliver this season seemed to not want her there.

Yeah, I guessed that Sara meant as a friend too, but it was just such a random comment that could easily be taken the wrong way. And it made no sense to me, because if anything, season 2 emphasized how Oliver needed everyone else *except* Laurel.

[tangerine95]

Yeah, I guessed that Sara meant as a friend too, but it was just such a random comment that could easily be taken the wrong way. And it made no sense to me, because if anything, season 2 emphasized how Oliver needed everyone else *except* Laurel.

I could see it as a way to keep her relevant on the show.Her whole ticket into team arrow was that she used to date Oliver and apparently they're friends even though they fight about everything.

[Sunshine]

Watching 3.07...maybe Oliver felt guilty about not walking Laurel to the precinct at that moment in S2 because he had just rescued Carrie Cutter from the hands of mirakuru goons. ;) 

[BkWurm1]

It's funny how we can read scenes completely differently. I didn't see Sara as being hopeful when Oliver asked her to get a place together. I saw shock and we are definitely not ready for that face. Caity didn't really have a love sick look on her face, it was more subdued like "what, did I hear that correctly?". That's why she wanted clarification of what he was asking.

 

I went back and rewatched that scene and then rewatched about ten more times. 

 

It's funny how you can remember something being so stark and definite and then go back and the first time I couldn't even identify any emotion on her face.  It's like after not having watched Sara on screen, I forgot how to read her.  A few more viewings though and it began coming back to me and I saw what I'd seen before. 

 

Even before rewatching I knew hopeful was too strong a word but when Oliver brings up finding a place together Sara goes still, almost like she's holding her breath and as she's questioning him about what he means there is this brief flash of almost a shy smile.  I still have the urge to label it hopeful but maybe its more a mix of surprise and wonder - just a touch - where it was like she was saying in her head, "Wait, is he choosing to do with me what he'd ran like hell from with Laurel?" and then he gets his deer in headlights look and rather than the deep sadness, I for some reason remember, she instead just goes back to her more carefully schooled neutral tiny half smile and accepts his distraction of kissing her.  There's no real judgment but she is quick to point out that the phones are ringing like she wasn't upset with the interruption. 

 

I do still read it as she for a brief, brief second thinking, "Wait, maybe..." before almost an amused acceptance returns.   It's all SOOOOO subtle that if I hadn't been so certain before I don't know what I would think going in blind. 

 

I was surprised how relaxed Oliver seemed.  Didn't see that guy much in season three at all. 

[statsgirl]

I still see that scene as Sara hopeful that Oliver cared enough about her to ask her to live with him.  She was still partly in love with Nyssa but thought that was over and done, thought that she didn't deserve to be loved because of the things that she had done, and here was Oliver telling her he cared enough about her to take a step towards the forever after love. Except he wasn't.  And when she realized that, it pushed her towards going back to Nyssa because that is where her heart was.

 

As much as SA saying that Oliver realized his feelings for Felicity  in 2x06, it makes me think a lot less of Oliver.  He knew he had feelings for Felicity so he sleeps with Isabel, who has been treating her worse than something on the sole of her shoe and rubbing it in every chance she gets, and then he starts a relationship with Sara.  Dude, you're just like pre-island Ollie.   All that jealousy over Felicity spending time with Barry and then getting with Sara and the PDAs in the lair in front of Felicity just makes him even more douchey.  I'm glad SA pushed to put a stop to that in s3.

Rewatching S2, Oliver really did pull back pretty hard from Felicity after Heir to the Demon (13).  If this were RL, that would probably totally tear her up, since she'd just admitted to him that she feared losing him, and then told him Moira's secret after Moira told her he'd hate her if she told him.  Since these writers suck at writing actual human emotions, though, I never really got that vibe from her in the show.  She was a little upset in 14, but it seemed like she mostly just felt kind of left out, and then they moved right on past any of that,

This show really does suck at getting many of the emotional beats but I do appreciate that they never had Felicity jealous of Sara, and jealous of Laurel only in the way that Laurel is gorgeous and has the guy she wants, and she doesn't think she has any of that.

 

As much as I hate triangles, I hate them all the more when it's character A seeing character B with someone else, getting jealous and suddenly realizing his/her love for character B.  At least they protected Felicity from that.

Edited July 9, 2015 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

In the EW interview (just posted in the LoT media thread), CL talked about Sara's relationships with TA and Laurel...

While Sara is not really a people person, she did previously work with Team Arrow. However, the Legends team is a disparate group of heroes and villains. How do you think they’ll work together?
Even on Team Arrow, Sara always did what Sara wanted to do. Her and Oliver (Stephen Amell) butted heads quite a lot because of that. I can’t imagine that this will be any different from her. She’s not so much of a team player. Sara’s more of a lone wolf. It’s going to be a challenge to have to work with all these different personalities. It’ll be good for her. Even on Arrow, I don’t think Sara ever quite found her place or really fit in anywhere. I’d like to see her be able to find that. Hopefully by working with all these personalities and being forced to be around this team and work with them, she’ll be able to find that.
*  *  *
People are hoping to see White Canary vs. Black Canary (Katie Cassidy). Is that something you would be excited for?
Definitely. I think the crossover potential is something that really excites me about the show and what I feel like sets it apart from all the other superhero shows. Sara and Laurel’s relationship has always been a pretty complicated one. I don’t imagine that these recent events are going to make it any less complicated. I’m curious to see. I don’t even know. Would they be fighting against each other? Or would they be fighting on the same side? I don’t think Sara would be into Laurel donning the mask and becoming Black Canary, just because she wouldn’t have wanted her to have the same life that she had, that she wasn’t so into all that darkness. I definitely hope that something happens, whether they fight together or against each other. It could be cool side by side. I’m into that.

Edited July 9, 2015 by tv echo

[olicityfan25]

Caity Lotz having to display her abilities against a stunt person is what it's going to be in reality.

[Sakura12]

Isn't that what happened in the Canaries episode? It doesn't matter how much Cassidy works out, she's not trained in martial arts or stunt fighting, Caity is. 

[lemotomato]

I liked that CL is on record saying Sara wouldn't have wanted the vigilante life for Laurel. Not that I think it'll shut down the people that claimed "Oliver didn't want to help Laurel because he's meeeeaaan" at all, but at least it's confirmation for his in-show reason for not wanting her to mask-up. And it goes to show how little Laurel becoming BC had to do with "honoring her sister" because she had no clue what her sister wanted.

Edited July 9, 2015 by lemotomato

[olicityfan25]

Isn't that what happened in the Canaries episode? It doesn't matter how much Cassidy works out, she's not trained in martial arts or stunt fighting, Caity is.

Basically. What I meant to say was it's going to be a repeat. Same old same old with yawn LL.

I liked that CL is on record saying Sara wouldn't have wanted the vigilante life for Laurel. Not that I think it'll shut down the people that claimed "Oliver didn't want to help Laurel because he's meeeeaaan" at all, but at least it's confirmation for his in-show reason for not wanting her to mask-up. And it goes to show how little Laurel becoming BC had to do with "honoring her sister" because she had no clue what her sister wanted.

She can never talk about her relationship with Sara from the show at cons. She always talks about how she thinks the relationship is like with her real life sisters and then goes to talk about her real family life. When the questions the fans ask of her are never about that. I just don't think she cares about that and always only wanted to be BC. But, she was never training for it back then. She was never posting photos from season 1 and 2 of her training.

[Chaser]

I disagree about Sara not being a Team player. I don't know if its because I'm comparing her and Laurel, but Sara seemed to make an attempt at respecting the Team dynamic. Even when she went after Helena, she asked Felicity and Diggle's thoughts on the matter. I totally loved that part.

 

It's nice to see CL not sugar coating the sister's relationship. It was complicated. It got messy. I also like that CL isn't toting the party line about Laurel 'honoring' her sister. Sara would never approve, in fact she would probably be furious at Oliver for working with her.   

[Morena]

Arrow: 12 Underrated Moments That Made Us Fall In Love With #Olicity

 

http://telltaletv.com/2015/07/arrow-12-underrated-moments-that-made-us-fall-in-love-with-olicity/

[Angel12d]

I don’t think Sara would be into Laurel donning the mask and becoming Black Canary, just because she wouldn’t have wanted her to have the same life that she had, that she wasn’t so into all that darkness.

 

 

 

YES! Bless CL for this. That's exactly why Sara's smiling reaction in Canaries was so wrong. Ugh. Still annoyed about it.

[Sakura12]

Sara was definitely more of a team player than Laurel. Laurel was always about "Me, Me, Me", while Sara respected Oliver and his team. She gave her opinions (which were mostly about killing people she thought needed killing). She never hid that from the team or went ahead with it without telling them her intentions. She was helping them as much as they were helping her. With Laurel it's everyone bending over backwards to accommodate her while they get nothing in return. 

 

Then we also have Sara was highly trained and skilled so it made sense when she told Diggle to back off or if Diggle said she he trusted her skills. Laurel was unskilled and untrained, anyone telling her she's good to go out in the field makes no sense at all. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by Sakura12

[tangerine95]

The worst for me was how happy KC seemed that CL got killed off.I get she was happy about being BC but come on it was really unprofesional.I would so like to hear what CL really thinks about Laurel being BC.

One of the main reasons I will never buy the honoring her sister exuse is that they never developed the relationship between Laurel and Sara.They pretty much only talked about Oliver,Laurel had no idea about Sara's life on the island and in the league and ofcourse Laurel's manic smile when Sara was leaving.When you look at that it seems Laurel just stole Sara's life only without the trauma just like she accused Sara of stealing hers. Not even getting into how badly Laurel fits into team arrow,especially when compared to Sara.

[Sakura12]

Laurel didn't even know about Sara's relationship with Nyssa. Laurel yelled at Nyssa at Sara's grave about not knowing her and bringing her into the darkness. Nyssa then told her she loved Sara and when she found her half dead she already had darkness in her. Laurel knew nothing about her sister. She probably didn't even know that Sara was Bi. 

 

Laurel was honoring herself, taking Sara's name. None of what she did was for her sister. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by Sakura12

[tangerine95]

Laurel didn't even know about Sara's relationship with Nyssa. Laurel yelled at Nyssa at Sara's grave about not knowing her and bringing her into the darkness. Nyssa then told her she loved Sara and when she found her half dead she already had darkness in her. Laurel knew nothing about her sister. She probably didn't even know that Sara was Bi. 

 

Laurel was honoring herself, taking Sara's name. None of what she did was for her sister. 

Ugh the frendship with Nyssa pissed me off so much.In the Al Sahim episode I seriously thought they were gonna have them get together.It was just weird.Suddenly Laurel cares so much about Nyssa after knowing her a month maybe.And Nyssa is giving her the time of day.I get she missed Sara but the worst person to reminisce about her is Laurel.

[Angel12d]

While I don't 100% agree, I can definitely see why CL doesn't think Sara is much of a team player though. There were moments where she struggled with how the team (but mostly Oliver) dealt with things, particularly when they were all about 'finding another way' whereas Sara sometimes just wanted to get things done, even if that meant going straight for the kill. Take how they handled mirakuru'd Roy, for example. But I see that less of Sara not being a team player and more about her struggling with her own issues. It was probably incredibly difficult for her to get out of that mindset. She'd been hardened by the LoA way of life.

 

Anyway, to keep this on thread, I suppose I am interested in how Laurel will react to Sara being alive again, and how they'll interact knowing Laurel is now living the life Sara never wanted for her.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

I suppose there are some ways I'd be interested in Laurel's reaction to Sara being alive, but I'm sure it'll go something like this:

 

Shock, trite bonding, Sara finding out that Laurel took up her mantle, anger and doubt from Sara, Laurel being awesome to prove her wrong, Sara accepting/telling Laurel how amazing she is and how wrong she was to doubt her!

 

Bonus points if they don't go that way.

Edited July 9, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Sakura12]

It's pretty much guaranteed that Sara will sing Laurel's praises. Bonus points if Sara tells Laurel she's better than she is. 

[Angel12d]

I suppose there are some ways I'd be interested in Laurel's reaction to Sara being alive, but I'm sure it'll go something like this:

 

Shock, trite bonding, Sara finding out that Laurel took up her mantle, anger and doubt from Sara, Laurel being awesome to prove her wrong, Sara accepting/telling Laurel how amazing she is and how wrong she was to doubt her!

 

Bonus points if they don't go that way.

 

You're supposed to put a spoiler alert. LOL.

[wingster55]

Of course Sara would be upset. I don't view it any different than Oliver not being ok with Thea on the field (something I suspect will be in s4)

[apinknightmare]

Oliver is already okay with Thea being in the field. He was strangely okay with it from the get go, given how protective he was of her pretty much right up until he saw her in her costume for the first time. Not only did he give his blessings during his little hero speech at Palmer Tech, he also gave her a code name and then promptly booked it out of town. 

 

I hope Sara's upset and stays upset about it. What I'm afraid is going to happen is that she's going to be upset for a short time period, then Laurel is going to wow her with awesomeness, and Sara will admit that she was in the wrong. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wingster55]

I don't think it really registered. She just wore a costume. She didn't get into any fisticuffs or anything. True he did give her a codename..but then he left town.

I think when he returns and he sees her roughed up one night he may re think it.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe. He's seen her fight though - he knows she can do it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I was kinda surprised, too, at how easily OIiver accepted Thea into Team Arrow. But then she fought Oliver in "The Climb" and for a while after he returned they'd both trained with Malcolm so Oliver has a pretty good grasp of Thea's fighting abilities.

[apinknightmare]

I was kinda surprised, too, at how easily OIiver accepted Thea into Team Arrow. But then she fought Oliver in "The Climb" and for a while after he returned they'd both trained with Malcolm so Oliver has a pretty good grasp of Thea's fighting abilities.

 

Plus, he fought Slade with her, and then used her dislocated arm (that HE dislocated) to spring them from his cell on Lian Yu, lmao. He knows she's tough and capable. I'm sure it won't be easy for him to see her get roughed up, but she'll probably have taken most of her beginner licks before he even rolls back into town. 

Edited July 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[lemotomato]

I feel like Oliver accepts Thea going out into the field because he knows she's been well trained, like Roy. He was OK with Helena going out vigilante-ing too, after he taught her.

[apinknightmare]

I think it's a little weird that he accepted it so easily just because of the sheer lengths the dude has gone to in order to protect her. I mean, just a few episodes prior to her suiting up he saw her mostly dead and gave up his entire life just to save her. It does seem kind of odd that he'd just be okey dokey without putting up any kind of fight, although I do appreciate him finally letting her have some agency. So, growth. I approve.

[kismet]

I did always see Sara as more of a lone wolf than a team player. I think she is able to integrate herself better into a team because she is a selfless person. I think Sara has some personal issues with trust and relying on others which makes it hard for to be a "team player". I also think she has spent a significant amount of time since the Gambit where she had to be self-reliant, independent & running her own missions, so having to comply to the team or OQ's leadership was an adjustment for her. It will be interesting to see how she operates within LoT which is a team made of rather independent spirits, unlike TA which was more team oriented.

 

Laurel has problem integrating into the team because she is more self-absorbed at baseline. Even if LL has a generous always saving the world personality (or so they are always trying to tell us), she is still very much its all about me in her execution of her day to day. I honestly don't see how she is going to be a natural addition to TA because she seems to all about ME to be about wanting to be part of the Team. I sorta hope they keep some of her operations separate from TA, because it just feels more organic to me that she would operate as more of a collaboration with TA and not an actual team member of TA.

[BkWurm1]

I honestly don't see how she is going to be a natural addition to TA because she seems to all about ME to be about wanting to be part of the Team. I sorta hope they keep some of her operations separate from TA, because it just feels more organic to me that she would operate as more of a collaboration with TA and not an actual team member of TA.

 

I agree about Laurel and like your idea since if she's not likely to start being about the team, the alternative seems to be making the team more about her aka letting her control the direction of the team and having them following her decisions and yeah, that would cause some severe internal injuries to me as I tried to keep my head from exploding. 

[Happy Harpy]

One of the main reasons I will never buy the honoring her sister exuse is that they never developed the relationship between Laurel and Sara.They pretty much only talked about Oliver,Laurel had no idea about Sara's life on the island and in the league and ofcourse Laurel's manic smile when Sara was leaving.When you look at that it seems Laurel just stole Sara's life only without the trauma just like she accused Sara of stealing hers. Not even getting into how badly Laurel fits into team arrow,especially when compared to Sara.

Yes, S2-B especially screwed-up imo the relationship between the Lance sisters. The sister-swapping did a number on them, but imo Laurel's characterization did even worse. Back in S1, I believed that Laurel loved Sara but was angry at her -and I could see where she was coming from. I did until she was so adamant that Sara was dead. I found it went beyond the fear of being hurt/seeing her parents hurt by another false hope, because I didn't see any hope, at any moment, in Laurel, I didn't see anything that wasn't plain dismissal and stubborn refusal...whereas imo, when you've lost a loved one and don't have a body, you can't but hope, if only by pure reflex, if only for a minute.

Then, there was "you stole my life". Deal sealed.

 

It's weird because I think they also messed the writing for Sara during Laurel's so-called crucible in S2-B. It's as if they couldn't balance the relationship, as if there should be a "good" sister and a "bad" sister, as if one had to be 100% in the wrong and the other 100% in the right; whereas very often in sibling conflicts no one is entirely right or wrong. I think it hurt both characters (one less durably than the other imo) and it certainly made the Laurel/Sara relationship less realistic in my eyes.

 

Considering this antagonistic vision they presented of the Lance sisters, killing off Sara and forcing Laurel in her jacket was for me the worst path they could choose; especially considering the polarizing status of Laurel on the show/with the audience. I think they should have exploited Laurel's admiration for Sara that appeared in the scene where Sara goes to save a girl from a building (IIRC?) at the end of S2. They should have made Laurel the Groupie, not those two seconds for the show, but for real. They should have showed her admirative, supportive. They could have shown her willing to help, but be humble about it -since imo lack of humility is one of the flaws that hurt Laurel most as a character. I'm sure that some people would have warmed-up to her then; but even the others, at least, would have seen their relationship rebuilt onscreen.

 

They could still do something like this with Sara's return. Laurel could be a bit more tolerable in my eyes if her reaction was 100% different this time around, and if her relationship with Sara was used to develop her and make her more relatable. Unfortunately, I think the writers won't change their ways and try once again to use Sara in order to validate Laurel as the bestest Canary/heroine ever. Honestly, I wouldn't even put it past them to show Laurel as worried for her place as a vigilante, needing reassurance on the great work she does or any other unbelievably self-centered reaction, and forget to make her manifest some affection for her sister.

If they do change Laurel's reaction? Then I wouldn't put it past them to put more arrows in Sara by showing her "ungratefully" responding to Laurel's affection by a "you stole my life". (Except that imo, some people in the audience would wholeheartedly agree, LOL).

I hope I'm wrong because I want to enjoy Sara if she's ever back on Arrow and I won't be able to if her relationship with Laurel isn't more balanced and genuine.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[tangerine95]

And the way she behaved with her mother in that episode was so cruel.She could have told her she found the girl in the photo they thought was Sara not bring her to meet them.She just seemed too cold for me to believe there was love there,even though I knew it wasn't intended to come across that way.The you stole my life really made it impossible to believe they could truly reconcile.I mean when that is your first reaction to your dead little sister turning out to be alive you are seriously a selfish,self absorbed person.

They messed up a lot with Sara in 2B.The geting together with Oliver was purely for plot but it hurt her character.And I also hated how much of her there was,even though i liked her.She did kinda take over the show at one point.

To me this season was make or break for Laurel and they managed to make her worse IMO.From now on I just want her away for as much as possible from team arrow .I just know they're gonna resolve it in one episode with Sara being angry at first but seeing how amazing Laurel is and giving her blessing.They did it with Oliver in Canaries in which Laurel didn't even prove herself IMO and he still gave his aproval by the end.

I'm more interested in seeing Sara with Quentin who actually loves her and team arrow.

[Sakura12]

That's why I'm baffled when I see people on tumblr saying how much they loved the Laurel and Sara sister relationship. I'm like what sister relationship? They had maybe two significant scenes, when Laurel was apologizing to Sara which was really a half assed apology since she made it about herself and compared her suffering to Sara's without knowing anything about what Sara went through. Feeling like your drowning and actually almost drowning (twice) are not even close to being similar. We also should've had Sara apologize to her, but didn't. Then there was the they wouldn't give you such a pretty name if they were bad scene, which again shows that Laurel knew nothing about Sara's life as an assassin. 

 

The jacket scene was probably supposed to be significant but Cassidy smiling like a loon ruined whatever that scene was supposed to be. That also showed Laurel thinking of SWF-ing her sister which she eventually did when Sara was barely in the ground. 

 

Sara's sister relationship was with Sin. Just like with couple ships, the emotional beats were between Sara and Sin. They talked about their families, they shared scenes were they worried about each other, hugging each other. Then we find out that Sara promised Sin's dad that she'd look out of her and Sin knew right away that the bumbling Canary wasn't Sara.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Sakura12

[tangerine95]

God i forgot about the beautiful name scene.Its supposed to be this emotional scene but it makes no sense when you think about it.They gave her that name when she became an assasin and its asociated with a life she thinks of as pretty much her own hell.

She was smiling like a loon on the rooftop scene before Sara died while she was saying how she never wanted her to go back to that life,its like KC can't help herself.

Sara and Sin were amazing.The scenes we had between them were enough to believe they really loved each other.

[Sakura12]

Laurel barely asked Sara about her scars when she finally saw them. If that was my sister, I would've wanted to know what happened and would've started imaging all terrible things. They even showed that Laurel didn't even know about Sara and Nyssa's relationship in S3. I'm surprised Laurel knows her sister's name. 

 

Sara and Sin were both introduced in S2 and you could tell right away they were family, before they connected them even more with Sara's promise to her father.

 

I know Bex is on Scream, but I hope she can come back for an ep so she could be reunited with Sara and at least find out what happened to her. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Sakura12

[AyChihuahua]

Isn't that what happened in the Canaries episode? It doesn't matter how much Cassidy works out, she's not trained in martial arts or stunt fighting, Caity is. 

It really doesn't matter how much KC works out or even trains.  Caity Lotz, like Amell, is naturally athletic.  Reflexes, awareness of body position, body type/muscle fiber, etc.  I mean, even if I were younger and trained and worked out eight hours a day, I'd still be an uncoordinated dork who manages to punch myself accidentally more often than my opponent.  You can become competent at a sport with no innate athletic ability, but I don't believe you can get to Amell's or Lotz's levels without some good old fashioned genetic luck.  

[Delphi]

It really doesn't matter how much KC works out or even trains. Caity Lotz, like Amell, is naturally athletic. Reflexes, awareness of body position, body type/muscle fiber, etc. I mean, even if I were younger and trained and worked out eight hours a day, I'd still be an uncoordinated dork who manages to punch myself accidentally more often than my opponent. You can become competent at a sport with no innate athletic ability, but I don't believe you can get to Amell's or Lotz's levels without some good old fashioned genetic luck.

That's true. I've been doing parkour aND free running for years. Just for fun. But there is always someone naturally gifted at it. I'm regularly showed up by 14 year olds who are just naturally gifted at it.

I work hard for what I can do and I'm alright at it but there are kids who can just show up better than me.

Caity is like that. She's built to easily do that. Katie can't compete.

[BkWurm1]

The you stole my life really made it impossible to believe they could truly reconcile.I mean when that is your first reaction to your dead little sister turning out to be alive you are seriously a selfish,self absorbed person

 

I've been recently told (repeatedly) that because Sara was dead, Laurel never had the chance to be angry so when Sara was alive it was only natural that she be mad that Sara ruined her life.  They compare it to how Laurel was mad at Oliver and then got a chance to forgive him. 

 

Apparently it's also Sara's fault that Laurel had her melt down/addiction because if Sara hadn't cheated on her with Oliver then Laurel wouldn't have dated and loved Tommy so then she wouldn't have been so sad when he died. 

[tangerine95]

I've been recently told (repeatedly) that because Sara was dead, Laurel never had the chance to be angry so when Sara was alive it was only natural that she be mad that Sara ruined her life.  They compare it to how Laurel was mad at Oliver and then got a chance to forgive him. 

 

Apparently it's also Sara's fault that Laurel had her melt down/addiction because if Sara hadn't cheated on her with Oliver then Laurel wouldn't have dated and loved Tommy so then she wouldn't have been so sad when he died. 

i've been told something like that too.Its never Laurel fault at all.Yeah Sara and Oliver did a shitty thing but in perspective they paid more then enough for it with what they went through after the boat sank.Laurel still got to become a lawyer and her life when compared to theirs was a lot better so I hate when people try to say that Laurel suffered the same as them.And its not very realistic to say her life would have been perfect if they never cheated.Oliver was already a cheater so they would have ended up in an awful marriage or most likely broken up.He needed the island to change and even then he sleept with Shado while supposedly pining for Laurel.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I've been recently told (repeatedly) that because Sara was dead, Laurel never had the chance to be angry so when Sara was alive it was only natural that she be mad that Sara ruined her life.  They compare it to how Laurel was mad at Oliver and then got a chance to forgive him. 

 

I kinda get the part about Laurel having the chance to show her anger at Sara after she returned from the dead. She should be. What Sara did was horrible. The problem is she went from being furious to telling Sara how she felt like her sister stole her life to asking for forgiveness (she did, right? I'm remembering this part correctly?) within an episode or two and it just felt incredibly abrupt and unrealistic. And again, it's the intensity of the anger that's the problem (the same problem in the pilot with Oliver). Laurel came across as too angry. So when she "softened" and forgave, I didn't buy it. I got whiplash instead. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Genki]

If Sara never went on the Gambit with Oliver I wholeheartedly believe her's and Laurel's relationship would be bad and one of a lot of sibling rivalry, similar to that of Lindsay & Becca's in "You're the worst".

 

I think if the blow up at Sara should happened an episode or 2 later, Laurel would have had way more sympathy, at least be happy you sister is back form the the dead for at least 5 mins. Also the fact that she saw Sara's scars and went to talk to Oliver, puzzled me. 

[Password]

Their entire relationship puzzled me. They should've handled it without the complication of Oliver being the chew toy in the middle. Learn from your mistakes dude.

[EmeraldArcher]

I think it's weird that Laurel would be capable of such rage toward Sara five years later, despite Sara's betrayal. I know that the writers wanted to show Laurel was still stuck in the past, as evidenced by her speech to Sara about how she had been drowning, too, but I don't know why they ever thought that was a good character choice. We had flashbacks to show us how Oliver and Sara's cheating AND dying affected Laurel, so they could have allowed her emotional growth.

Instead, the audience views Laurel as someone who feels her betrayal more keenly than her sister's death and as someone who can't acknowledge that the scarred woman who returned--who Laurel witnessed being rescued after a suicide attempt--was not the very young, immature girl who left on that boat. Laurel might not have known that Sara drank the poison, but the show really failed to capitalize on an opportunity to humanize Laurel and her parents when they completely ignored that Sara's suicide attempt happened. It isn't mentioned again, and only by Oliver, until 3x09.

It was just several steps back for Laurel that undermined the sisters' relationship. S1 focused on Laurel's evolution from rage to forgiveness for Oliver and on her acceptance that Tommy had matured and changed, but her own emotional maturity was reset in S2 apparently only for plot and stupid drama because she didn't apply those lessons learned when confronted with Sara's return.

[olicityfan25]

If Sara never went on the Gambit with Oliver I wholeheartedly believe her's and Laurel's relationship would be bad and one of a lot of sibling rivalry, similar to that of Lindsay & Becca's in "You're the worst".

I think if the blow up at Sara should happened an episode or 2 later, Laurel would have had way more sympathy, at least be happy you sister is back form the the dead for at least 5 mins. Also the fact that she saw Sara's scars and went to talk to Oliver, puzzled me.

For the scar part, I think it was one of those times where they tried to throw a bone to Lauliver fans. Like "look at Laurel, being concerned for Oliver." Whereas to many people it came off "really? You just saw your sister covered in scars and you run off to him?" No wonder I can never like this character. Edited July 11, 2015 by olicityfan25

[Password]

It was strange that Laurel didn't ask about Oliver's scars in the first season when she saw them. She saw them, said they can't happen again and went bye bye. I'd be extremely curious to know why he's so scarred up and furthermore feel...compassion. They're obviously torture scars. But the writers just blanked at that.