The Great Pottery Throw Down - General Discussion

[GaT]

That wa a tough one. I wouldn't think that someone who can throw a pot is necessarily good at sculpture, they seem like 2 different skill sets. Also, random penis LOL. I guess British TV is more lenient than US TV because that would have definitely caused a ruckus here.

[Ceindreadh]

2 hours ago, GaT said:

That wa a tough one. I wouldn't think that someone who can throw a pot is necessarily good at sculpture, they seem like 2 different skill sets. Also, random penis LOL. I guess British TV is more lenient than US TV because that would have definitely caused a ruckus here.

There was a warning for ‘full frontal nudity’ before the episode aired. Generally speaking, once the programme is aired after the 9pm watershed, and a warning is issued beforehand, its assumed that people are adults and can moderate their viewing accordingly. 
 

I did notice a lot of creative camera angles to ensure that a lot of the areas were hidden from view by conveniently placed vases etc. 

[GaT]

12 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

There was a warning for ‘full frontal nudity’ before the episode aired. Generally speaking, once the programme is aired after the 9pm watershed, and a warning is issued beforehand, its assumed that people are adults and can moderate their viewing accordingly. 
 

I did notice a lot of creative camera angles to ensure that a lot of the areas were hidden from view by conveniently placed vases etc. 

Ahh, the version I watched didn't have the warning, not that it would have stopped me watching.  😁

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When they initially revealed the models, I noticed the careful camera angles which is typical. But then I noticed some of the shots where there were unobstructed penis views so I was like okay, so we're NOT trying to hide the full frontal? I also noticed that the editors had a good time in this episode with the potters saying seemingly innocuous things and then the cameras cutting over to things that people like me who are mentally 13 would laugh about.

[rhys]

I'm going to miss Rainna. She's such a happy person.

I was surprised that Rosa got co-win. She really didn't fulfill the brief.

[akr]

2 hours ago, rhys said:

I was surprised that Rosa got co-win. She really didn't fulfill the brief.

True, but it was also the only statue that sort of worked, & in that sense got closer to the brief than those that reminded me more of that failed Spanish restoration of a fresco of Jesus. I thought only her statue & the drapery on Rosalind's statue were successful, & with Rosa, it may have been simply a matter of running out of time to shift from getting the proportions right (also vital for classical form) to smoothing out the surface for that sort of subtle detail. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E7: Handmade Tiles and a Chimney

Quote

The six remaining potters are challenged to produce handmade tiles for a fireplace and to throw a chimney for a place in the quarter-final

Original air date: 2/19/20

Edited February 20, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[GaT]

Not a surprise about Ronaldo, every week his finishing was a problem. I didn't care for Rosalind's, all her raised pieces got lost with the same color glaze.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ronaldo every week: "The judges said my finishes weren't great last week. I'm going to work really hard this week so they don't say it again." Wash, rinse, repeat. He seems like a nice enough guy but the judges have the same problem with his creations EVERY WEEK. I honestly don't know if this is a skill issue or a time management problem. All I know is that the judges have the same complaint about his work week after week.

I love Rich so I'm glad that he got a bigger role this week. I totally cracked up when Rosalind said she was going to ask him to autograph the handmade harp later. I'm glad I'm not the only Rich fangirl.

Jacob and Matt both made such great chimney pots in the throw down!

I was glad that Rosalind hand carved her frogs and decorations because I mentioned last week that I felt she has been relying on molds a lot. I didn't like how splotchy the color was on her tiles. It was really dark and opaque in some areas and very light and translucent in other areas. Based on how she was dunking her tiles into the glaze and then she switched to painting the glaze on, this was not an intentional effect. I did like that she created so many different creatures rather than using frogs on all of her tiles.

I didn't care for Rosa's geometric tiles. It kind of looked like a haphazard solar system.

Ronaldo's Fibonacci tiles were not great. And it's kind of appalling that he only did three different and very simple designs (the tile with three overlapping circles, the tile with one blue circle in the middle, the tile with blue circle in the middle surrounded by a white circle) in the same amount of time that the other potters created much more intricate and complex designs. And TEN of his forty tiles were just plain white without any design at all! How did he spend that much time making the other 30 tiles? On top of that, the painting was sloppy.

Jacob's dragon design was really cool. I liked that it looked like it was floating in the sky. I also liked that the tiles that didn't have any dragon on it still had some very subtle design work.

Claire really have herself a lot of extra work by creating 80 tiles but they looked great. My only minor complaint was that I wish she hadn't painted all the segments of the orange tiles completely orange. I would have liked some color variation like maybe darker orange on the inside section. The other issue for me was that there were a few places where the center lines didn't line up exactly. Overall it was a bold design but she didn't fulfill the assignment because there wasn't a 3D aspect..

Matt's hexagonal tiles were a cool idea. And he made 102 tiles! I liked the way he used the green, yellow, and red glaze.

Congratulations to Matt on his first potter of the week! I wasn't surprised that Ronaldo was eliminated. Ha, I loved that he said he's going to tile his bathroom and then send a picture of it to Matt to show him that he can do it.

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Aulty]

They should give Rich and Will from the Repair Shop their own show. Let them make pots and cabinets for half an hour every day. I'd watch.

Bye Ronaldo. For someone who has had problems with his finishing from week 1 he didn't make life any easier for himself by choosing motifs that require such a fiddly and precise paint job.

I wasn't keen on Claire's and she probably was quite lucky that Ronaldo did so badly, but the rest was quite good, wasn't it? Jakob's dragon was quite impressive and I liked Rosa's - especially the raised spheres.

Well done Matt! His chimney was pretty impressive and his fireplace certainly looked very stylish. If I had a fire surround like that I would probably knock my toe against all the raised motifs on the bottom all the time 🙂

[rhys]

I thought Claire might get cut as she didn't fulfill the brief (no 3d). So she was lucky Ronaldo messed up. I didn't like/understand all Matt's colors but he did nice work.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E8: Ginger Jars & Scraffito

Quote

The remaining five potters make two ginger jars and face a Scraffito challenge spot test for a place in the semi-final.

Original air date: 2/26/20

Edited February 27, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Aulty]

I did not expect them to send Rosalind home, but I see the judge's point - in terms of the actual pottery hers were certainly the weakest. Poor Jakob, he has probably spent two days mentally preparing himself for an elimination and it probably was a really really narrow . escape.

Claire's jars were super. I didn't really rate what she did in the scratch challenge because the symbols were as messy as Ronaldo's tile last week, but she excelled in the main throw.

Matt did well too, I quite liked the shape of his vessels.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was so relieved that Jacob wasn't sent home because when I thought about who I wanted to see more from, I'm more interested in what he will make than Rosalind. The shapes of his jars were so beautiful. I liked that Keith said he wasn't going to ding him too much about the base breaking because Jacob knew exactly what he'd done wrong (this reminded me of how many designers on Project Runway stubbornly insist that they love what they made, they wouldn't change anything, etc. during the judging and refuse to admit that they made some mistakes).

Rosalind did get some nice colors from the firing, but I agreed with the judges about the shape as well as the size. On a personal note, I can't stand when reality show contestants bring God into whether or not they're going to be eliminated. I can't believe in a higher being who is micromanaging who's going to win a reality show.

I didn't agree with the judges about the fish design on Rosa's jars because it seemed like an afterthought. When Keith tried to pick up the large vase and the whole top half came off, I was hoping she would tell him that was her finial top!

I agreed with the judges about Matt's geometric jars straying a bit too far from the assignment. I don't mind thinking outside the box, but as Melanie pointed out, he always go slightly off book. Ha, I don't think I've ever seen Keith cry just based on the weight of a piece before.

Claire's jars were lovely. I know it's all a crap shoot with the color, but hers were so bold and they looked very deliberate. I loved the shape of her finials too.

The scraffito challenge was kind of a bust for me because Matt and Rosalind were so bad at it. I liked what Jacob did but I knew he wouldn't be in the top when the judges said he left too much open space. Claire and Rosa took very different approaches but it's clear that they're more artistic than the others.

[GaT]

I was also surprised to see Rosalind eliminated, I really thought it was going to be Jakob

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On a personal note, I can't stand when reality show contestants bring God into whether or not they're going to be eliminated. I can't believe in a higher being who is micromanaging who's going to win a reality show

Totally agree, which is why I'm not sorry to see Rosalind go. I certainly respect her right to her beliefs, I just don't want to hear about it. And this brings me to another thing that annoys me, when contestants have to do something that has nothing to do with the competition. If they really felt that the potters had to sleep near their fires (though I can't think of any reason why), why did they make them set up their own tents? They should have had reasonably comfortable places set up for them already, how good they are at camping has nothing to do with the competition.

[oldCJ]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Rosalind did get some nice colors from the firing, but I agreed with the judges about the shape as well as the size. On a personal note, I can't stand when reality show contestants bring God into whether or not they're going to be eliminated. I can't believe in a higher being who is micromanaging who's going to win a reality show.

Agreed. Also did anyone else notice they showed Claire and Rosa without makeup but the first shot of Rosalind after camping out all night she already had full makeup?

[rhys]

Set up your tents, eat these marshmallows & we will see you in the morning. Weird.

[Athena]

The camping segment seems traditional to this series now. It's my partner's first time watching the show and he thought it was all scripted, but I don't think so. I think it's just this show's gimmick that they have this segment. It also recreates what it would have been like for ancient potters and kiln workers. Kinda.

I am sad to see Rosalind go because even though her pots didn't work, she is really creative and had a very distinct and interesting style. Also, it's so niche yet commercial. I thought her jars had by far the best colouring. Jacob looked miserable the whole trip as he thought he'd go. 

Of those remaining, it seems it's Claire's to lose right now. She is probably the most proficient thrower. I prefer Jacob and Rosa's style. I like some of Matt's stuff but not as consistently as I prefer the others. 

[oldCJ]

I’m glad I’m not into gambling because I was wrong on my guess for the final three.
Rosa likes making the same fish, doesn’t she. They were off-putting to say the least in this context and made it look like the toilet needed to be cleaned. 💩

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E9: Victorian Week & a Fully Functioning Toilet

Quote

In the Victorian-themed semi-final, the potters face their biggest challenge yet... to produce a fully functioning toilet for a place in the final.

Original air date: 3/4/20

[Aulty]

Awwww Claire. I am so gutted for her. Hard luck. Not gonna lie, there were tears.

Claire and Rosa are such opposites - one is brilliant at building but a bit boring with the design and the other is all about the sensual and whacky shapes and designs but a bit loose with the build.

Jakob did well, I liked his design. Didn't care for Matt's and that handle in the front might be allright for full sized grown ups, but picture children navigating their bums onto the seat with that sticking out.

Each of the 4 semifinalists has something going for them and it was always going to be a hard decision. Weirdly, I wonder what kind of toilet Rosalind would have come up with.

[rhys]

Grrr. I so hate the toilet construction. I want to see something pretty with far less engineering.

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, rhys said:

Grrr. I so hate the toilet construction. I want to see something pretty with far less engineering.

Engineering has always been part of the show and the skill of pottery, but the show seems to have forgotten that it's own intro to slip casting specifically said that it was used for toilets, tubs, and other things that would be impractical to build by hand...and then we have toilet challenges on 2 different seasons. Ugh. I have no issue with having engineering challenges. I have a problem with this engineering challenge because no one in the industry hand builds toilets. It's just dumb. They might carve into to a still soft slip cast toilet or put molds on it or hand paint it, but they aren't forming it by hand. More fountains, clocks, lamps, mobiles, chandeliers, and things with moving parts. I'm cool with those.

It also irritates me that the judges sit there surrounded by a bunch of hand-painted, but slipcasted professional example toilets opining about how hard the challenge will be when it's the only time the professional examples aren't representative of the amateur's challenge.

I'm sad that Claire is gone, but this was a fairly egalitarian challenge to go out on.

[Ceindreadh]

Claire was unlucky that she had to spend so much time on the second day trying to fix her build. She sacrificed so much of her design in favour of getting the build right and in the end it didn’t work. 
Personally I think she might have been better off getting the look of it right and having all her handles and bits I place. I think the judges would have looked more kindly on her if the toilet had looked more impressive, even if it still leaked. 

She ended up falling down on both the build (leaks) and the look (the final result looked very amateurish, IMO), and the judges made the right call to send her home. 

[GaT]

Damn, Claire has been looking like the winner since the beginning, I can't believe she got eliminated in the semi.  What is the point of making them do the plumbing?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought Claire would be in the final but she really did have a bad week. Aside from the leak, the decoration was not good. It looked very slapdash and amateurish, which is not what I have come to expect from her. Heh, but the 12 year old in me loved the "turd place" sign on the front.

Matt's teacup concept was not my favorite. As soon as h said that handle would be in the front, I thought BUT WHY? His decoration wasn't great either. First of all, it was just a stamp, not handpainted, and it wasn't done very well.

Jacob's was my favorite design because it was obvious exactly what it was. The bright colors were fun too. I was really worried for him when he had all those cracks but good on him for not panicking and just doing what he could to fix them.

Rosa's design is exactly what I expect from her. My main complaint is that it looked a little too homemade - the form was kind of chunky and the decorations on the outside were cute from a distance but more rudimentary up close. The best part was painting the inside blue and having fish.

That tissue paper design challenge is one of those things that looks so simple that when you see someone else do it, you think pffft, I could do that! But when you actually try to do it yourself, you find out just how precise you have to be. It reminded me of whenever Lego sets come with stickers to add to the bricks. In theory, it's so easy to put a rectangular sticker on a rectangle. In reality, they usually end up at least a tiny bit crooked.

[oldCJ]

17 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It reminded me of whenever Lego sets come with stickers to add to the bricks. In theory, it's so easy to put a rectangular sticker on a rectangle. In reality, they usually end up at least a tiny bit crooked.

Yes! It’s so frustrating. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

57 minutes ago, oldCJ said:

Yes! It’s so frustrating. 

It really is. Yet every time I'm convinced that I can do it!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E10: Finale

Quote

The three potters make a quirky tea set and face a throwing challenge to impress the judges and be crowned the winner.

Original air date: 3/11/20

Edited March 14, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[GaT]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

S3.E10: Finale

Sob 😞 😞 😞 

 

[Aulty]

To be honest, I didn't have Rosa down as the favourite but the challenge was almost tailor made for her - plus she was very smart to use a variety of techniques. Apart from the small leak on her tea pot it was a great set.

Matts showed off his technique and the carbon trapping did give the pieces some depth. But his set lacked whimsy - if only he had time to finish his cake stand properly and add Alice's legs ... Personally, I am not keen on those joke jugs, probably because I've seen so many of them on Bargain Hunt and ART.

I was disappointed with Jakob. Another dragon? Apart from the heart stickers the concept was very close to his fire surround. Nice shapes on the pots and flasks though.

That was a very enjoyable series. I hope the show will be back next year (I noticed that they didn't ask for applications for a new season, just a call to register your iterest).

Edited March 12, 2020 by Aulty

[GaT]

I wouldn't have picked Rosa as the winner when this season started, I'm still surprised that Claire was eliminated. I think if they hadn't picked a challenge that required whimsy, either Matt or Jakob would have won.

[jpgr]

3 hours ago, GaT said:

I wouldn't have picked Rosa as the winner when this season started, I'm still surprised that Claire was eliminated. I think if they hadn't picked a challenge that required whimsy, either Matt or Jakob would have won.

I agree, the decorative/imaginative aspect of this challenge really played to her strengths. Since watching, I've been pondering what the producers and judges value when selecting a winner in terms of balancing construction and design/decoration skills.

[Ceindreadh]

I would have been happy with any of the three as winner. 
I’m just glad that there were no disasters and everybody’s makes were more or less what they’d intended. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Alice in Wonderland tea sets - how fun! A+ for the show using White Rabbit. Their music choices are always great.

I loved Rosa's attitude that it's just another challenge. I liked the heart shaped spout. The Cheshire Cat sugar bowl was such a fun idea. The playing card tea cups were cute too.

I like Jacob, but I rolled my eyes when he said he hadn't read the book or watched any of the movies. The contestants are obviously told what the challenges are beforehand so they can plan ahead. Jacob didn't have to read the entire book or watch every movie, but he could have watched just the tea party scenes in one or two of the movie versions for research. I read the book but I had no idea what the Jabberwocky actually looked like. I didn't know it looked similar to a dragon. Jacob is really good at sculpting dragons so I wish he had branched out and sculpted something different. I knew that he wasn't in the running to win because he was he only finalist who didn't make the judges cry. I'm glad he finally won a throw down!

I couldn't decide if I loved or hated Matt's concept. I didn't like the decoration/painting which was far too plain and boring. I am totally fine with not doing a literal Alice in Wonderland set and I like whimsical stuff, but the decoration really let him down. The sugar bowl with lots of lids inside were a fun idea.

I loved all the updates on the contestants. Don't worry, Sampada - I still haven't used a toast rack either! And I absolutely love that Matt and Jacob are planning a road trip together.

Edited March 14, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Attention, Americans! The Great Pottery Throw Down Makes Its Stateside Debut on HBO Max on September 17 - all three seasons will be available!

Promo:

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[GaT]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:42 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Attention, Americans! The Great Pottery Throw Down Makes Its Stateside Debut on HBO Max on September 17 - all three seasons will be available!

Promo:

 

WHOO HOO!!!!! I wonder if I have HBO MAX?

[biakbiak]

On 9/4/2020 at 11:09 AM, GaT said:

WHOO HOO!!!!! I wonder if I have HBO MAX?

If you have Xfinity it isn’t on their box yet but you can sign up for free and watch it on other devices or if you tv is capable throw it to your tv.

[GaT]

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

If you have Xfinity it isn’t on their box yet but you can sign up for free and watch it on other devices or if you tv is capable throw it to your tv.

I have Xfinity, but I've already watched the shows on my computer, I want to watch it on my TV, but it doesn't look like I can 😞

[biakbiak]

I enjoyed the first episode. I didn’t not expect so much sexual innuendo!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I enjoyed the first episode. I didn’t not expect so much sexual innuendo!

There's a lot more of that!

[biakbiak]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There's a lot more of that!

I actually finished the series and found that the first episode really stood out other than a one off in the sink episode about James not knowing what vaginas look like which was more anatomy not sexual innuendo.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Every season when they pull handles, they make jokes about how dirty it looks! I also remember the contestants talking about the judges not like <insert adjective> bottoms. They were talking about the bottoms of whatever they were making, but then they would start giggling because they realized what it sounded like. The vaginal sink cracked me up. She was so deadpan when she asked if it looked vaginal.

Edited September 28, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[biakbiak]

My point was the first episode it was very overt, it wasn’t innuendo and they discussed the actual sexual nature of pottery in those terms and that calmed down significantly. And by the third season they don’t even make any jokes about pulling handles so I disagree with you that the tenor didn’t change significantly. Though the third season you do actually see penis and the flattest ass I have ever seen.

Edited September 29, 2020 by biakbiak

[Michichick]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:56 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yay, I'm so glad this show is back! And Rich the kiln guy!

What do the contestants do during the 24 hours when their pieces are drying and then fired in the kiln? Sleep? Go sightseeing?

Amid all the mentions of knobs and jugs (and demonstrations of pulling), Leonard won this week's inadvertently dirty quote: "It's tighter than I've ever had it. It's all the way down the shaft. It fits very well."

Honorable mention goes to Tom ("Can I get a little bit of the rougher stuff?") and Melanie ("No more cleaning your bottoms!").

I love watching Keith demonstrate. He always makes it look so easy. I do find it amusing that Keith is the sensitive one who cries when he sees what the contestants have made but he's also the one ruthlessly tossing in pieces from the throwdown into the reject pail. Wow, Flea made so many egg cups - she had an army of them! She had 20 left even after Keith chucked several of hers.

I love watching them trim their creations. It reminds me of watching people frost cakes. I find it so soothing.

Heh, I guess I'm a heathen since I don't have a breakfast set with a toast rack and matching cafetière.

Ronaldo's blue and white Barbados inspired set with coconut trees was simple but well executed.

Rosalind's chicken set was nice. I liked the blue trim at the tops of the pieces and the chickens were well done. And she got Keith to cry! But I did notice some bubbling on the surface which neither of the judges mentioned. The lid of the cafetière looked very thick and clunky.

Sammie's illustrated set was different which is what I liked most about it. I liked the face on top of the cafetière and the boat shaped toast rack.

I really liked the idea of Tom's musical set but the execution was a bit lacking. Sue said the cafetière was very heavy (which I believed because it looked very heavy). I really wanted the treble staff handle and the musical note toast rack to work but they didn't seem very functional. The eyes painted on the saucers cracked me up.

Flea's Moroccan inspired set was pretty (I liked the serene shade of blue she chose) so it was a shame about the bubbling. I liked that she also decorated the inner rim of the cafetière.

Matt's splattered set looked very modern (and the bubbling seemed to go together with that theme). I agreed that the handle on the cafetière seemed too thin. I’d be afraid of it breaking if I filled it to the top.

Rosa's floral set looked like something you'd find at a store with the flowers and the orange rim (which was a nice contrast) - inoffensive but a little boring. I liked the carousel toast holder.

Kit's blue and white Cornish crockery inspired looked a bit messy. I understand why he decided to freehand vertical stripes after he wasted all that time trying to get the tape on straight, but the paint job ended up looking clumsy.

Leonard's yellow and blue sailing inspired set was a nice idea. The bold design of the sail was very striking. I liked the tiny stripes on the toast holder.

Rainna's cogs and rivet steampunk set looked very messy and mismatched to me due to the brownish iron oxide she used on the cafetière. I liked the dark blue shade of the espresso cups.

Jacob's skyline set was so lovely. I liked the way he sponged layers of blue for an ombré effect.

Claire's lilypad set looked very clean. She definitely gets points for mixing her own glaze. The lilypad shaped espresso cups were a nice bit of originality.

Congratulations to Claire for winning! Not surprised that Tom was eliminated because he had a lot of issues with the main challenge. Maybe it's for the best since he had Keith crying on the first day before they had any judging!

Coming in late as I’ve just started watching series 3 after binging the first two series on HBOMax. I’m bummed that they only do two challenges per episode now. I enjoyed having three challenges just like Bake Off. Was glad to see Claire win as her breakfast set was my favorite.

[fayster]

I've spent 2 weeks binging all 3 seasons and just loved it. Damn COVID making us wait until 2022 for Season 4. The one thing I didn't love was Sue, the female judge. She just didn't have the energy or fun of Keith. Kate, the judge the first 2 seasons, was more animated but not by much. I'd like to see them demonstrate like Keith does. 

I hope the toilet challenge isn't an every year thing. If you want big, go back to the sink idea. 

Amazingly talented folks. Worth the HBO Max subscription

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, fayster said:

The one thing I didn't love was Sue, the female judge. She just didn't have the energy or fun of Keith. Kate, the judge the first 2 seasons, was more animated but not by much.

For me, it wasn't so much Sue's lack of energy so much as it was her sour demeanor. She seemed very negative even when she was just walking around to see what the potters were doing. I'm not saying the judges have to be all sunshine and rainbows but you can ask questions and give criticism without being so dour about it all the time.

[Ceindreadh]

https://www.q102.ie/news/buzz/derry-girls-star-siobhan-mcsweeney-to-host-news-series-of-popular-reality-tv-show/?fbclid=IwAR23L27geTwsXhxS51axFaHv8A2DuFEHRWdn7s6bpHcPFBMKP4peYY8hEoM
 

Siobhan McSweeney (Sister Michael from Derry Girls) is taking over from Melanie Sykes. It’s almost a pity she won’t be hosting as her character!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

OMG Rich the kiln guy is going to be a judge this season?!

[Irlandesa]

I wonder if he's still going to do the kilns.