S02.E11: Lost Boy

[thewhiteowl]

Quote

An attack on the Green Zone, told from five different points of view.

[SimoneS]

So Bram is a killer now. He is a good liar. Maddie should have taken the opportunity to take Hudson go into hiding with Bram. It was probably her last chance to escape.

Will is so full of shit. Blaming his collaboration on his family and Bram working with the resistance on Katie.

They need to take out the Red Hand.

The preview makes me fear for Broussard.

Edited March 24, 2017 by SimoneS

[amcalabrese]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

The preview makes me fear for Broussard.

Unless Broussard is also on that alien love list

 

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Will is so full of shit. Blaming his collaboration on his family and Bram working with the resistance on Katie.

They need to take out the Red Hand.

 

I wonder if the leader of the Red Hand is some sort of ex-military or other security type.  She seems to really know what she is doing and the Red Hand do seems somewhat sophisticated in terms of communications, tactics and equipment. 

[Netfoot]

O!  Mercy, Bram is stupid.  Shoot the biggest fish in the block, and then deliberately leave your fingerprints in his blood, on the window pane?   That's bound to work out well for him, don'cha think?  It must be easy to write for him though...  What ever is the stupidest thing he could do, write that!

[GreyBunny]

As usual, Charlie is the smartest one in the room.

Bram is a lying liar who lies, and he's stone cold stupid. "I won't get caught." You already got caught once, asshole, and if it weren't for Snyder you would have been blasted into molecules at the camp. Maddie will probably get sent to the factory for telling the guard he's her nephew and he'd been with her all day; it won't take them long to figure out who that bloody handprint belongs to since the dumbass didn't think to wear gloves.  Maddie would have done herself and the audience a favor by ratting Bram out to the guards.

9 minutes ago, GreyBunny said:

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by GreyBunny

[SimoneS]

Maddie showed poor judgement. Once she decided to protect Bram, Maddie should have left with Hudson and never gone back. She is deluded. She does not understand how much danger she is in, thinking that Noah will stand by her and protect her. He sent his first wife to the factory and replaced her with a younger woman that alone should keep Maddie on edge. I think her only hope is that Snyder saving her to have leverage against Will and Katie.

Edited March 24, 2017 by SimoneS

[Joimiaroxeu]

These Germanic-sounding bad guys keep creeping me out. Too much real life  historical reference.

Were we supposed to be scared for the ambassador? Even though they're in the  so-called "green zone" you'd think the higher officials would have some personal security staff inside their homes. The ambassador was a sitting duck and got taken out by a kid.

[Dowel Jones]

Snyder didn't exactly come out strong either, running off into the woods and hiding all day.  I can understand the initial bolt, but if he is looking for a job in this authoritarian society, he just wrote himself off as a coward. 

The fact that the redhat at the gate knew who Maddie is should also mean that they know her sister is in the resistance and her nephew just came back from a labor camp.  That sentry is probably toast as well.  This is the first time we've seen a redhat face up close, I think.  Was it supposed to be someone we know?

The Resistance continues to engage in worthless propaganda activities, for lack of a better term.  A mass suicide mission doesn't accomplish anything in the long run, as too few collaborators are killed for the price the kids paid.

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

As usual, Charlie is the smartest one in the room.

Bram is a lying liar who lies, and he's stone cold stupid. "I won't get caught." You already got caught once, asshole, and if it weren't for Snyder you would have been blasted into molecules at the camp. Maddie will probably get sent to the factory for telling the guard he's her nephew and he'd been with her all day; it won't take them long to figure out who that bloody handprint belongs to since the dumbass didn't think to wear gloves.  Maddie would have done herself and the audience a favor by ratting Bram out to the guards.

Came here after watching to say exactly that. I had the same reaction to the handprint. Though I was surprised Bram actually killed the guy.

55 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

These Germanic-sounding bad guys keep creeping me out. Too much real life  historical reference.=

I might not have found it creepy because I was delighted that when he was giving his code over the sat phone, he said two in "my" dialect. (my family's that is).

38 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Snyder didn't exactly come out strong either, running off into the woods and hiding all day.  I can understand the initial bolt, but if he is looking for a job in this authoritarian society, he just wrote himself off as a coward.

His escape fits in with what I was thinking about him during the episode. Snyder is a cockroach - and cockroaches survive by scurrying away. He could very well be the last man standing in the bloc. I think an authoritarian governments depends on cowards, who do their bidding and don't resist even when given some authority over others.

[amcalabrese]

10 hours ago, Netfoot said:

O!  Mercy, Bram is stupid.  Shoot the biggest fish in the block, and then deliberately leave your fingerprints in his blood, on the window pane?   That's bound to work out well for him, don'cha think?  It must be easy to write for him though...  What ever is the stupidest thing he could do, write that!

He is 16 years old and someone who lost his virginity to a martyr to the cause.  He really knows knowing.  

[nitrofishblue]

Bram is all kinds of stupid. He walks around with that blank stare looking like he is scared of everything. He sure has a problem with listening to orders.

[Haleth]

Like mother, like son.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, amcalabrese said:

He is 16 years old and someone who lost his virginity to a martyr to the cause.  He really knows knowing.  

Yeah, but he's a 16 year old who's lived under the occupation for a year, bartered food, went outside the bloc through tunnels which was illegal and he knew it, got captured and ended up in the labor camp (which he got into instead of the factory because he had a moment of clarity and lied about his skill set), and then played double agent under fairly brutish circumstances for awhile. The kid should know plenty at this point.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Clanstarling

[amcalabrese]

5 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Snyder didn't exactly come out strong either, running off into the woods and hiding all day.  I can understand the initial bolt, but if he is looking for a job in this authoritarian society, he just wrote himself off as a coward. 

The fact that the redhat at the gate knew who Maddie is should also mean that they know her sister is in the resistance and her nephew just came back from a labor camp.  That sentry is probably toast as well.  This is the first time we've seen a redhat face up close, I think.  Was it supposed to be someone we know?

The Resistance continues to engage in worthless propaganda activities, for lack of a better term.  A mass suicide mission doesn't accomplish anything in the long run, as too few collaborators are killed for the price the kids paid.

My thought was what exactly is Snyder's point now.  Is he a power or coming power in the regime or is he just comic relief. 

As for the Red Hat's activities, war and terrorism is sometimes a matter of perceptions and theatre.  The theater is attacking the Green Zone.  The perception is that the regime is unable to protect itself. 

 

Think of the Tet Offensive.  The offensive failed everywhere.  The Viet Cong were actually wiped out as a military force (the NVA was the primary force post 1968, and I have seen some commentators think that was done by the communists on purpose, as the Viet Cong were not under the control of the North Vietnamese government).  Yet the perception was that the VC were winning because areas that should have been under the clear control of the South Vietnamese, such as Saigon, were not secure.  Even the US Embassy was attacked. 

 

What their end game is I don't know.  I just want to know what the deal with their leader is. 

[Arynm]

I think Bram is the worst. He is a stone cold killer and a stupid one at that. He better hope they don't have fingerprint technology in this world.

For him to put his young cousin at risk to save his own neck is deplorable and shows how little he cares about the people around him. He gets laid once and now he's ready to die for the cause? Give me a break, it could not have been that good!

I hate his mom and now I hate him.

I know these people are fighting for their lives, but they are going about it the worst way possible, killing innocent people to get to collaborators is no way to win a war, and using teenagers is a terrible way to go about it. They are the easiest to sway I guess.

Bram has probably signed the death warrants of his aunt and his cousin at the very least.

ETA: I would hazard a guess that Charlie has gone through much more than stupid Bram has and is not a total asshole. In fact he tries to help his family.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Arynm
not done ranting

[AnnaMayWong]

"Charlie!  Charlie!  He's the 'man'!  He probably can do what NONE of them can!"

 

I canNot stand Bram and his perfectly rendered BLOODY stupid HandPrint--a##hole!

Maddy, you should have been gettin' while the gettin' was good especially after your bumbling sister already threw you under the RAPS' bus.

[raven]

Snyder racing into the woods to hide was my favorite part.  I mean, why not?  He's not bulletproof and had no guards or weapons.  Peter Jacobson is fun to watch here so I hope that, like the cockroach, he survives.

Why would Bram care if they ID his hand/fingerprint?  He's already in hiding, part of the resistance.  He's dead if they catch him anyway.  He's impulsive and immature so I can't fault him for running to Maddie for help.  Will got the woman at the office removed from her position and hopefully not killed (can't remember her name, the one who helped him with the thumb drive) and also put the electronics guy in danger when he needed a radio; as well as random doctors, guards; people they needed help from, who didn't really want to help them, without worrying about the consequences. However, I completely agree with this:

On 3/24/2017 at 8:41 AM, SimoneS said:

Maddie showed poor judgement. Once she decided to protect Bram, Maddie should have left with Hudson and never gone back. She is deluded. She does not understand how much danger she is in, thinking that Noah will stand by her and protect her. He sent his first wife to the factory and replaced her with a younger woman that alone should keep Maddie on edge. I think her only hope is that Snyder saving her to have leverage against Will and Katie.

Maddie has no one but herself to blame if something awful happens because she let Bram in.  People can ask for help but you don't have to give it.  It's nice to see she's not totally brainwashed though.

After all the dumb shit that Katie has done, Will yelling at Bram was rich.   I like adding Red Hand to the mix and yeah, teenage angst is never fun to watch but it makes sense for Bram to get involved.   Plot wise it makes things interesting IMO.

[Clanstarling]

5 minutes ago, raven said:

Will got the woman at the office removed from her position and hopefully not killed (can't remember her name, the one who helped him with the thumb drive) and also put the electronics guy in danger when he needed a radio; as well as random doctors, guards; people they needed help from, who didn't really want to help them, without worrying about the consequences.

Excellent points. None of the "adult" Bowmans are innocent of using people for their own needs. Maddie, too, for that matter. She's where she is because she took advantage when she saw an opening.

[Raja]

On 3/23/2017 at 9:20 PM, amcalabrese said:

Unless Broussard is also on that alien love list

 

I wonder if the leader of the Red Hand is some sort of ex-military or other security type.  She seems to really know what she is doing and the Red Hand do seems somewhat sophisticated in terms of communications, tactics and equipment. 

If anything she is too good. With Will and Broussard we know about their FBI and military experience, yet the troops are just you and me just around since the invasion. Especially since most of the veterans and military buffs were killed at the VFW during the invasion.

On 3/24/2017 at 1:47 PM, amcalabrese said:

My thought was what exactly is Snyder's point now.  Is he a power or coming power in the regime or is he just comic relief. 

As for the Red Hat's activities, war and terrorism is sometimes a matter of perceptions and theatre.  The theater is attacking the Green Zone.  The perception is that the regime is unable to protect itself. 

 

Think of the Tet Offensive.  The offensive failed everywhere.  The Viet Cong were actually wiped out as a military force (the NVA was the primary force post 1968, and I have seen some commentators think that was done by the communists on purpose, as the Viet Cong were not under the control of the North Vietnamese government).  Yet the perception was that the VC were winning because areas that should have been under the clear control of the South Vietnamese, such as Saigon, were not secure.  Even the US Embassy was attacked. 

 

What their end game is I don't know.  I just want to know what the deal with their leader is. 

Tet was exactly what I was thinking while watching the episode. So how did the Red Hand become so tactically adept by playing video games. They brought a rookie along for what I assumed was a primary target with two pistols. And  we see others chasing down armed better Red Hats with body armor and dispatching them

[Dowel Jones]

Except that the Tet Offensive took place in many places throughout South Vietnam.  Without the benefit of a wider view of what is going on in the US, or California, or even the LA area, it seems like this is a very localized revolt without much effect on the occupying forces.  Add to that it was a suicide mission and the Red Hand doesn't seem to have the depth of field to make up for their losses.

[amcalabrese]

15 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Except that the Tet Offensive took place in many places throughout South Vietnam.  Without the benefit of a wider view of what is going on in the US, or California, or even the LA area, it seems like this is a very localized revolt without much effect on the occupying forces.  Add to that it was a suicide mission and the Red Hand doesn't seem to have the depth of field to make up for their losses.

Perhaps, but to the people in that block the world has compressed back into that block.  what happens in Santa Monica or Seattle might as well be in Europe or Africa.  

[LocimusPrime]

Bram and his mother are unlikeable characters. Stupid and don't give a dang about the consequences of their actions. Definitely factory material. 

My girl watched 3 episodes on demand for the first time, and came to the conclusion that the only likeable character was the dad  lol 

[holly4755]

Mixed thoughts.

Even the dad is pretty unlikable for me anyway. what gets me is the aim of people considering they are not going to the shooting range to improve their shot, I am talking about your normal citizens I am sure the red hats are. I Think early on there was on scene that sort of humanized the red hats, wish there were more, they are like blank enemies right now with no reason for their behavior as traitorous to humanity. 

Bram, yes he had issues, but under there is still the kid, who really was not fully committed to anything and not all that experienced with the rebels in prison, I think his character played more true, he thought his family could just ask to get him leniency, He thought his aunt could just ask for him to be taken home from prison. He was rescued by the girl, but he only helped a little and i think it was to impress her, He had no understanding as his shock when the people he named were shot in front of him. Of course, they would be killed and better to be shot than be interrogated. 

As to Snyder, I don't think he is comic relief so much as representing how some people are just plain lucky if they are slippery and willing to make a deal with anyone or anything. In a sense his incompetence allows the resistance some success. He could have turned over the prisoners who were caught instead of jsut killing them and ending the information line.  His sympathies could be mixed. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not a regular viewer, but, caught this episode and thought it was amusing.  However, after confirming that there is some really weird antics going on......I'm not sure I'm going to catch up by watching previous episodes.  Is the season almost gone?

 Maybe, I'm just not up on things.  I did think that leaving your hand print somewhere that you killed someone is sort of silly, for any reason.  And that if there is danger outside, why get in a car as opposed to staying inside?  Is it normally like that? Is the writing clever or frustrating?  Is it worth it?

[Raja]

28 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm not a regular viewer, but, caught this episode and thought it was amusing.  However, after confirming that there is some really weird antics going on......I'm not sure I'm going to catch up by watching previous episodes.  Is the season almost gone?

 Maybe, I'm just not up on things.  I did think that leaving your hand print somewhere that you killed someone is sort of silly, for any reason.  And that if there is danger outside, why get in a car as opposed to staying inside?  Is it normally like that? Is the writing clever or frustrating?  Is it worth it?

Frustrating in an attempt to be clever. The hand print is the low technology equivalent of the martyrs video to demonstrate that the Red Hand is fighting even if no one else is.

[Mackey]

So, Bram still feels the need to lie about killing,  in that family of killers? Interesting. 

[Raja]

23 hours ago, Mackey said:

So, Bram still feels the need to lie about killing,  in that family of killers? Interesting. 

The cell structure. He was a resister, with a link to the chief collaborator of Los Angeles just finding out that mom was with a resistance effort and until that moment his father a collaborator.

[BarryWilson]

Am watching recordings and just needed to vent.  Bram may be a teen with their abnormal brains. But that doesn't make them this stupid.  Walks in to a replica of the night before but that's not odd.   But those Red Handers do reflect the narrow minded and violent tendencies of  fundamentalist thinking from white supremacists to any body who thinks killing innocents brings peace

 

But how dumb are the Aliens?   They conquer earth, have extremely advanced technologies but can't keep a bunch of moronic teenagers and their guns out of the area that is so valuable. Of course til they dispose of them. But until then there are no Sci Fi stress n Lie detectors or gunpowder detectors. We have those now. So they could have come up with drones that fly about sniffing.  And it seems they can't make credentials unable to be forged.  I still enjoy the show. But all it needs is writers that find realistic ways around impregnable security. Instead if there is a problem to be overcome, it is solved with no explanation..  How dumb are the aliens? How dumb are the producers and writers.  I feel better now.  I don't care if this is read. I just wanted to write it.

All the best

[holly4755]

I don't think the aliens care that people kill each other, they don't care that kids got into the green zone.  That is humans reacting to humans.  The aliens don't care if there are disruptions at farm factories. they only care about the factories that make their stuff on earth and the moon.