S04.E11: The Way of the Gun

[CooperTV]

Quote

When a mysterious woman finds her way into the vault, the team struggles to understand who she is and with whom her allegiances lie. Meanwhile, Alex must come to terms with her complicated feelings when she finds herself in a tight spot. Can Team Witness handle what might be revealed?

Promos

[Free]

Imo, the twist would've worked a lot better in the old storyline instead of with Dreyfuss' awkward mannerisms before they rebooted that away.

[Frozendiva]

The twist? Ichabod as the Horseman of Death or whatever? And that the mystery woman is the older Molly? Well, now that the future is not what it was, where does this all go?

Found the ep kinda dull. Ichabod's parent night at the school play was a bit much. These are 10 year olds.

Dreyfuss seems to be a man with many plans. His being immortal throws a bit of a curve.

Overall, the season is weak and uninspiring. 

[catrox14]

Wait you cant make Ichabod into War and not have Abbie around to help him. Booo

[Free]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Wait you cant make Ichabod into War and not have Abbie around to help him. Booo

We could've had this back in S2 with Ichabod being a Horseman instead of all the nonsense storylines we ended up with.

[janeta]

Pulls to the right  little, huh? Time travel makes my head hurt.

So why on earth (pardon the expression) did they think a ley line would be on the *second* floor of a building? And then after that everyone but Crane and Diana knew they'd end up in that cage.

[CooperTV]

The only plot twist that I didn't predict or, to be fair, wasn't completely predictable this episode was Ichabod getting shot and turning into Horseman of War. Damn you, show, that was brutal!

But yeah, "Lara"'s identity was, of course, the most transparent thing in the world. I mean, it's not like the show was subtle about dropping time-traveling clues all over the place. But the simple fact of the actress looking a lot like Diana and Molly was enough. I'm actually intrigued by Molly's emotional attachment to Dreyfuss because that's entire relationship seems like the most messed up thing ever. And what's now? Since Ichabod changed the future, what would happen in Dreyfuss's version of it where he killed Diana? Well, he also can kill her without magic involved, so. Yeah. Cliffhanger is a cliffhanger is a cliffhanger.

Team Witness wandering in the woods and stumbling upon the Horesmen-in-training in their coffins was... stupid. I want to say as much as stupid as "Lara" infiltrating the Vault but it wasn't actually a plot hole but a deliberate clue. Anyway. Jenny, I expected better from you in the woods. Although you were badass with that henchman.

Jake, I hope you'll have your revelation soon. That Jobe-induced hallucination was kinda terrifying, but I'm glad it was used for shipping purposes, lol.

The cold open with Ichabod and the school play was amazing. Tom Mison is the natural theater actor.

PS: Nice to see Ben Banaker again. Such a great recurring character this season, and he and Ichabod have insane chemistry,

[Free]

12 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

The twist? Ichabod as the Horseman of Death or whatever? And that the mystery woman is the older Molly? Well, now that the future is not what it was, where does this all go?

Found the ep kinda dull. Ichabod's parent night at the school play was a bit much. These are 10 year olds.

Dreyfuss seems to be a man with many plans. His being immortal throws a bit of a curve.

Overall, the season is weak and uninspiring. 

That's my problem too, in context, it just feels random given Dreyfuss' motivations.  It felt like the writers were all over the place: establish the new team/place, establish the new witness, establish the new villain, etc. so they had to cover so much in a short amount of time due to the reboot.

[ganesh]

I actually didn't realize that was Molly. It's a fairly clever move. We've been saying how making the witness a child wasn't a good idea for being the witness. Making her come from the future is consistent in that Crane came to the future in the first place. Though I'm interested in how she went back in time. 

I also think it's an interesting point that the team made on the show about what 'apocalypse' actually means. 

I am disappointed that the show kind of dropped the development of Jobe. 

I was surprised that a Witness could turn into a Horseman. I assume that's going to be a plot point. 

[CooperTV]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I am disappointed that the show kind of dropped the development of Jobe. 

They're wasting the character, and I've no idea why.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't think I'm one of those super smarty pants viewers who is always guessing stuff way before it happens, but I knew that was Molly pretty quickly so the reveal was not any kind of surprise. I did like Molly telling Diana about the last day that she saw her. But then what? How did Dreyfuss get a hold of her? Did he just kidnap her and leave no trace? Because I doubt Crane et al would be like, "Hmm, Diana is dead and Molly has disappeared. I guess it's time to move on to something else!"

To be honest, I'm more interested in how Molly learned to time travel than all of this Four Horsemen stuff.

[ganesh]

Please please please show, tell me Jobe sent Molly back in time to stop Malcolm. 

[Free]

11 hours ago, CooperTV said:

They're wasting the character, and I've no idea why.

Yet another season where the sidekick is more interesting than the main villain.

[CooperTV]

6 minutes ago, Free said:

Yet another season where the sidekick is more interesting than the main villain.

They at least had built up on Pandora throughout the season 3 before the HO appeared. Dreyfuss was there from the beginning, and they explained his past and the personality, but he has the dullest presence.

[Free]

Just now, CooperTV said:

They at least had built up on Pandora throughout the season 3 before the HO appeared. Dreyfuss was there from the beginning, and they explained his past and the personality, but he has the dullest presence.

I was talking about Pandora's dull husband who became the main villain.  She was the more mysterious character who had to be relegated to sidekick status once he appeared in the back half.

Dreyfuss' entire character is just awkward, his motivations, his inclusion into the SH universe, etc.  It's all over the place, he really should've stayed 'dead' and let a more interesting character take over.

[CooperTV]

3 minutes ago, Free said:

I was talking about Pandora's dull husband who became the main villain. 

We were talking about the same thing! Pandora was the sidekick but was still more interesting that the Hidden One because they'd invested their time to write her over the course of the season as a main villain. Dreyfuss is the main villain and they developed him not unlike they had done with Pandora in season 3. But he's so unconvincing that the audience can't help but project their interest on his sidekick, Jobe, who has no development but has way much more charisma and on-screen presence.

[ganesh]

I don't think the shows needs a big bad, but taking the argument, they could have just had Jobe going out to put the horsemen together to start a revolt in hell or something.

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Please please please show, tell me Jobe sent Molly back in time to stop Malcolm. 

Didn't Molly say Crane send her back or tell her to go back?  She says something like "a very different Crane", I assume meaning like the one we saw in the other visions, where he was older and a mess and Malcolm had him held captive.

[Free]

1 hour ago, CooperTV said:

We were talking about the same thing! Pandora was the sidekick but was still more interesting that the Hidden One because they'd invested their time to write her over the course of the season as a main villain. Dreyfuss is the main villain and they developed him not unlike they had done with Pandora in season 3. But he's so unconvincing that the audience can't help but project their interest on his sidekick, Jobe, who has no development but has way much more charisma and on-screen presence.

It's because like Pandora, Jobe is more mysterious and has more potential, whereas Dreyfuss is stuck being awkward with his motivations being all over the place.

[Teitr Styrr]

While I am enjoying this season, it is certainly a different show now. I'm halfway thinking they are gonna do a spinoff show with Jenny that's kinda like Tombraider.

What I don't understand about Jobe, is why he helps Dreyfus. Seems like that would be going against what his superiors want, meaning Dreyfus' soul. Maybe they explained that and I missed it.

When Jenny said the girl knew her moves before she made them, I figured out it was Molly. Good job by the casting dept for that one.

I like the twist that the future has most certainly been changed now, and look forward to seeing what happens.

"Well said, and said well!" 

ETA: Oh shoot, I didn't finish my thought about Jobe. Basically, I think he's gonna betray Dreyfus. So, whoever said upthread that maybe it was Jobe that helped send Molly back, I am liking that train of thought.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Teitr Styrr

[Free]

7 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

I'm halfway thinking they are gonna do a spinoff show with Jenny that's kinda like Tombraider.

Well I'm not sure about a spinoff given how low the ratings are but it does seem like Jenny is about to leave, which would make Ichabod the lone character from S1 left.

[ganesh]

I think they said That Jobe is somehow bound to him. 

[JaneSmith]

I will be sad if Jenny leaves but there are only 2 episodes left and I doubt it will get renewed with the low ratings it is getting so I guess it doesn't matter to much anymore with what is going to happen,

[jhlipton]

On 3/20/2017 at 8:16 AM, Free said:

Well I'm not sure about a spinoff given how low the ratings are but it does seem like Jenny is about to leave, which would make Ichabod the lone character from S1 left.

I'm sure she'll "further Crane's journey" when she goes.

[Free]

1 minute ago, jhlipton said:

I'm sure she'll "further Crane's journey" when she goes.

Yeah, I'm not here for yet another Henry/Jeremy return nonsense that they had this season.

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, Free said:

Dreyfuss' entire character is just awkward

And it doesn't help that the guy who plays Dreyfuss looks like a deranged Neil Patrick Harris, so every time I see him I think: Scary Barney!  Even the big "I'm a tech billionaire, idiots!" reveal was awkward.  And the "Mentor to Molly" reveal came off awkward.  Agree that everything about him is awkward (although, I did enjoy his, "didn't see that coming" when Crane stepped in front of Diana to take the bullet). 

 

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 0:46 AM, Teitr Styrr said:

While I am enjoying this season, it is certainly a different show now. I'm halfway thinking they are gonna do a spinoff show with Jenny that's kinda like Tombraider.

I would absolutely watch this.

[Linderhill]

When they showed Henry/Jeremy in the previews my exact reaction was: "oh yeay, Henry is back ... again. Crap." We don't need him stinking up the show more than it is. I'm terribly disappointed in Jeremy Davies. He was so good in Justified and he's a well respected actor. He just doesn't work as Dreyfuss (and now I'm thinking of the dog in "Empty Nest" from the '80's.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Linderhill said:

When they showed Henry/Jeremy in the previews my exact reaction was: "oh yeay, Henry is back ... again. Crap." We don't need him stinking up the show more than it is. I'm terribly disappointed in Jeremy Davies. He was so good in Justified and he's a well respected actor. He just doesn't work as Dreyfuss (and now I'm thinking of the dog in "Empty Nest" from the '80's.

Of all the characters to bring back, it's Henry/Jeremy and his never ending Daddy issues...

[Moxie Cat]

For my money, the Molly reveal was obvious because they took pains in the flash forwards to use the child actress instead of an adult Molly, which she obviously would have been (especially in Dreyfuss's vision).

Only 2 eps left? Thank God. I am finding this season such a slog, and basically watching for Mison and the wonderful character he's embodied. Also feel bad for Davies, who was so good on Lost.

One part I liked: the blue flame on the rock was pretty.

[catrox14]

On 3/23/2017 at 10:04 AM, TheGreenWave said:

And it doesn't help that the guy who plays Dreyfuss looks like a deranged Neil Patrick Harris, so every time I see him I think: Scary Barney! 

And now I'm picturing him as a purple dinosaur and that would be even more scary than him.

[StevenNani]

Well here are things that I don't understand about the timeline and how the time travel thing of future Molly works. Molly was sent back with the help of Ichabod, who now is the horseman of war. So, if he s the War and Molly's mom is still alive, there is no way Ichabod would have sent the future Molly and hence she shouldn't exist in this timeline.

Edit: I forgot what Dreyfuss said, "See if I don't, that means you won't ever be, will you?" That answers my question, still didn't watch EP12, so I don't know who's in it and who's not.

Edited March 25, 2017 by StevenNani

[thuganomics85]

Fell behind over the week, so I'm finally catching up.  So, Molly ends up growing into Lourdes from Falling Skies (hey, credit where credit is due, Seychelle Gabriel was miles better here then on that show), who is taken in by Dreyfuss after her mother "disappears", but is sent back by someone (Ichabod?  Jobe?!), to stop Dreyfuss from making Diana the Horseman of War, which is what apparently is suppose to happen.  Instead, thanks to some wackiness, Ichabod got shot instead and he's now the Horseman of War.  Not sure how this works out exactly, but I guess it is kind of interesting?

On the other hand, man, do Jake and Alex bore me.  Lamest sidekicks on the planet.  There are so many other shows that have similar characters like these, and they do it much, much better.  This is their eleventh episode, and I could still care less if they live, die, or finally hook up.  Yawn.

It's hard to get invested in Jenny possibly leaving either, since this show likely won't be getting renewed, unless they are getting amazing tax breaks or their other shows are doing even worse, which really doesn't seem likely.

Best part was easily Ichabod watching Young Molly's play.  Really wish there was more of that.

[Watermelon]

On 3/25/2017 at 0:09 AM, StevenNani said:

Well here are things that I don't understand about the timeline and how the time travel thing of future Molly works. Molly was sent back with the help of Ichabod, who now is the horseman of war. So, if he s the War and Molly's mom is still alive, there is no way Ichabod would have sent the future Molly and hence she shouldn't exist in this timeline.

Edit: I forgot what Dreyfuss said, "See if I don't, that means you won't ever be, will you?" That answers my question, still didn't watch EP12, so I don't know who's in it and who's not.

In future Molly's world Dreyfuss turned her mother into War, and Ichabod sent her back.

When future Molly came back she screwed the timeline so now what she's going back to isn't going to happen.  Now, IDK if in time travel rules that means FM goes poof or what...