S05.E02: Pests

[MisterBluxom]

2 minutes ago, henripootel said:

It just seems so ripe for a 'parallel story' thing - Stan has to watch (from afar) Oleg being disastrously recruited and now Phillip has to watch Stan being disastrously recruited.  Tough, harsh world, spying.

I've banged on about this in previous posts but this thread is super-popular so - the Soviets had competing intelligence agencies who did not like to share.  I would imagine that we'll eventually see Gabriel give Phillip a heads up that Stan's new girlfriend is GRU and that Phillip is not to interfere, no matter how strongly he feels about it or how sure he is that Stan would never go for it. 

 

Does that lead to the conclusion that "putting a bullet in her brain" would be a kind of violation of orders?

By the way, I got a very strong premonition that when Tuan talked about someone "putting a bullet in the brain" of that father, it would lead to someone putting a bullet in Tuan's brain. Karma just does not forgive.

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, henripootel said:

I would imagine that we'll eventually see Gabriel give Phillip a heads up that Stan's new girlfriend is GRU and that Phillip is not to interfere, no matter how strongly he feels about it or how sure he is that Stan would never go for it. 

But Directorate-S is its own thing, iirc. They shouldn't all have competing Directorate-S type agents.

3 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I have a theory on the nudity thing, which at the time, seemed gratuitous, but this show hasn't had a history of gratuitous nudity or violence.

Agreed. It's the aesthetic of the show to have some low-level nudity and it made sense in this scene where we're meant to think of Elizabeth being exposed to bugs crawling all over her.

18 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I think it's an excellent lesson to learn when fighting terrorists. The thing that motivates terrorists is not a believe ins Suni vs Shinto or Shiite.

Except for the ones who are absolutely motivated by ideology even over their family. That happens too. I can't remember if it's been brought up here, but Little Pavlik/Pasha Morozov (sp?) was also the name of the famous (and possibly apocryphal) Soviet martyr boy who informed on his parents and was murdered by his family in revenge. 

 

9 hours ago, Bretton said:

As much as I love this show (and it really IS my favorite show in the history of television), I still find it's depiction of Paige's religious experience really unrealistic. Not long ago she was a die-hard Jesus-freak, and now she's dating a guy who's not only not part of her church, but who's showing no interest in God whatsoever? I just don't buy it. She would, at the very least, feel conflicted - VERY conflicted. And re: sex, she would have a whole different perspective on that having been indoctrinated in a Christian youth group the previous year. 

I was talking about this elsewhere and agree 200%. More about that in the Paige thread...

[Uncle JUICE]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

Agreed. It's the aesthetic of the show to have some low-level nudity and it made sense in this scene where we're meant to think of Elizabeth being exposed to bugs crawling all over her.

 

There's something really metaphoric about it, now that you mention that mental sensation. Like even now, even when she's naked and all by herself, she's having trouble getting rid of the things she has to deal with mentally. 

[MisterBluxom]

On 2017-03-15 at 8:24 AM, benteen said:

The one shot of Henry that we see, he looks like a 20-year-old giant.

Maybe that is why they are hiding him - until he dies in a freak high school basketball tragedy - involving Gene Hackman maybe?

[Tetraneutron]

10 hours ago, Bretton said:

As much as I love this show (and it really IS my favorite show in the history of television), I still find it's depiction of Paige's religious experience really unrealistic. Not long ago she was a die-hard Jesus-freak, and now she's dating a guy who's not only not part of her church, but who's showing no interest in God whatsoever? I just don't buy it. She would, at the very least, feel conflicted - VERY conflicted. And re: sex, she would have a whole different perspective on that having been indoctrinated in a Christian youth group the previous year. 

My frustration with the lack of reality behind the religious angle began with Tim and his totally unrealistic church. As I mentioned last season, churches in America tend (and almost always are) either scripturally conservative or socially progressive. They are very rarely both. Even Elizabeth said she liked how "left wing" the church was. The thing is, in real-world America in the 1980s, a church that really pushed the importance of Jesus and reading the Bible, as Tim did, would be very unlikely to be socially progressive. 
 

I think they've been consistent with Paige. When her mother asked, she said she wasn't planning on having sex. She didn't give a big speech about it like she's running for State Senator in Oklahoma, but she made it clear she wasn't having sex with Matthew. I also think the church has been shown as a progressive one. Elizabeth said so, for one thing. And the only things we've seen them do are protest a nuclear site, run a food pantry, and do ministry work in impoverished nations. Pastor Tim is a hippie guy who P and E tried to trick by pretending the do work with poor people in El Salvador - they didn't try to manipulate him by pretending they were Jerry Falwell. 

I'm not sure Stan's new girlfriend is a Russian spy. They already did that with Nina. And "Clark" and Martha. And why as in FBI agent so important he has 3 current spies on him? 

[Milburn Stone]

On 3/15/2017 at 11:58 AM, JyDanzig said:

IAs a general rule, I think that, between seasons of a TV show, you should let a decent chunk of time pass for your characters, unless there's a compelling story reason not to.  But a lot of time has passed for your audience, and they'll be processing it as if they're catching up on characters who have been off elsewhere for awhile.  Don't fight that, unless you really have to (though maybe later in the season will reveal a good reason they couldn't do the time jump)  But so far, every one of these stories could have been on a low simmer for a few months, and we could still be seeing the same events now.  The Tuan story would even be enhanced by a time jump -- that's what P&E were doing summer/early fall, setting that whole thing up.

Very wise. I almost think we are meant to receive this season as if the time jump happened (in other words, in contravention of certain information actually contained in the episodes) because it's impossible for the audience, psychologically, not to. In effect, we unconsciously reject (are in complete denial of) data that says it's two weeks later, and the show runners know that we reject this, and don't trouble themselves too much over it, since they don't need to, since they know we will supply the time jump unconsciously.

[scrb]

I don't buy the KR nudity being integral to the plot.

This is Felicity we're talking about.  KR can act but her fame is largely about her looks.

I'm sure these shots were negotiated to death, like what could be shown, how long, etc.  This is an attempt to attract an audience.

The show has also shown Nina naked and a couple of extras or one-time guests.  It also plays up the prurience in the dialog, such as when Nina shocks Stan by saying "I sucked his cock" like some American porn star, without a hint of an accent, when she stumbles over words like "jitters" ("what is jeeters?").

[Uncle JUICE]

2 minutes ago, scrb said:

I don't buy the KR nudity being integral to the plot.

This is Felicity we're talking about.  KR can act but her fame is largely about her looks.

I'm sure these shots were negotiated to death, like what could be shown, how long, etc.  This is an attempt to attract an audience.

The show has also shown Nina naked and a couple of extras or one-time guests.  It also plays up the prurience in the dialog, such as when Nina shocks Stan by saying "I sucked his cock" like some American porn star, without a hint of an accent, when she stumbles over words like "jitters" ("what is jeeters?").

I'm not sure what to make of all of the stuff below the bolded, but there's more options than "integral to the plot" and "gratuitous." My point was that it's helpful in our understanding of these characters, who never show themselves to anyone but each other. That's why Clark / Phillip revealing himself to Martha was so upsetting for Elizabeth, wasn't it? It wasn't that Phillip was having sex with another women, or that Elizabeth had sex with Gregory, it's that they did so not in some other character. They're never more authentic than they are when they're naked, that's my theory. This is the most authentic they can be. Trespassing on that by one or the other is especially devastating. And showing her naked seems to speak to that. This show's never been about attracting a huge audience, it's been fairly low rated for several years (its first season ratings, where there was plenty of sex and nudity, were cancellation-level low). it's relied on word of mouth marketing (lucked into contemporary events, too), and no one is out there saying "watch this show, you might see Kerri Russel's ass." 

The discussion has nothing to do with why Nina is naked or says "cock." Insinuating that Keri Russel can't get by in this role without her looks is a real discredit to her performance, which is probably the best female performance on television right now. I have a difficult time imagining anyone whose role is more difficult than hers, to be honest, the amount of layers she has to play. 

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I almost think we are meant to receive this season as if the time jump happened (in other words, in contravention of certain information actually contained in the episodes) because it's impossible for the audience, psychologically, not to. In effect, we unconsciously reject (are in complete denial of) data that says it's two weeks later, and the show runners know that we reject this, and don't trouble themselves too much over it, since they don't need to, since they know we will supply the time jump unconsciously.

I don't understand what you mean. Why would the showrunners rely on us to supply a time jump that isn't happening on screen? Why would they even think that would happen with every viewers, especially those who are binge watching and might not even notice the show changing seasons? Seasons are at best temporary illusions in today's TV-watching world. Of course an audience watching in real time is going to "feel" like more time has passed, but I don't understand how they're supposed to apply that to the show by ignoring hard time cues. 

6 minutes ago, scrb said:

I don't buy the KR nudity being integral to the plot.

 

Nobody's saying it's integral to the plot. There's no plot point that hinges on the audience seeing her butt. They're saying they choose to use nudity for different reasons, not simply because they think they'll bring in viewers with the promise of looking at somebody's butt. We've seen Elizabeth's, Nina's, Philip's, I think Martha's, Anneleise's, random guy and continuing character Don off the top of my head. So regular characters, recurring characters and on-time people. It'd be silly to say they're doing this because in season 5 people are suddenly going to rush to the show because they heard KR's butt appears in this episode.

 

9 minutes ago, scrb said:

The show has also shown Nina naked and a couple of extras or one-time guests.  It also plays up the prurience in the dialog, such as when Nina shocks Stan by saying "I sucked his cock" like some American porn star, without a hint of an accent, when she stumbles over words like "jitters" ("what is jeeters?").

I don't see how they're playing up prurience there. Nina's accent on that line is no more or less strong than it is on any other line she has. There's no reason she should stumble over any of those words, particularly. There's good reason she'd know the words for "sucked his cock" and not have come across "jitters," a word that she didn't stumble over but just hadn't heard before iirc. She rarely stumbled over any words.

2 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

They're never more authentic than they are when they're naked, that's my theory. This is the most authentic they can b

I totally agree with your overall premise of the show choosing to use nudity for character reasons, but I wouldn't say they're at their most authentic when naked. Philip and Elizabeth have both had butt shots in sex scenes where they're being other people and faking their enthusiasm for the sex. Their nudity in scenes where they're alone or only with each other seems like it has a different meaning, more in line with what you're saying.

[Uncle JUICE]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

I totally agree with your overall premise of the show choosing to use nudity for character reasons, but I wouldn't say they're at their most authentic when naked. Philip and Elizabeth have both had butt shots in sex scenes where they're being other people and faking their enthusiasm for the sex. Their nudity in scenes where they're alone or only with each other seems like it has a different meaning, more in line with what you're saying.

When they're having those sex scenes, though, let's use Elizabeth's with Yong Hee's husband, she's not herself. She's wearing a wig. She's not naked, more like she's in a "minimal costume" :). She's playing someone else. When Clark is showing his butt to the camera and having sex with Martha, he's Clark, not Phillip. He's still wearing the wig, the glasses (I hope not).

This discussion brings up the famous 69 walk in scene...it takes a different meaning if we imagine it such that their nudity and intimacy carries this 'extra' meaning (authenticity and honesty) and then their daughter walks in on them, invades that, at their most vulnerable, most authentic moments... it's an interesting thought anyway. ETA, they're well above the age where people are having 69's :). That's a young person's move, jesus guys TAKE YOUR TIME!

Edited March 17, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Uncle JUICE said:

When they're having those sex scenes, though, let's use Elizabeth's with Yong Hee's husband, she's not herself. She's wearing a wig. She's not naked, more like she's in a "minimal costume" :). She's playing someone else. When Clark is showing his butt to the camera and having sex with Martha, he's Clark, not Phillip. He's still wearing the wig, the glasses (I hope not).

Ah! Good point, I agree. And yes, the 69 scene is a great example of the opposite. And I think that one, in particularly, was thoroughly discussed from just that angle. That is, what kind of sex are they having after their enforced separation and why--iow, what kind of sex scene is Paige walking in on. When it was hinted what was going to happen it seemed like the scene was going to be like a dirty joke. Instead it was quiet with soft lighting and mostly just projected affection and intimacy. But the butt, among other things, made it clear it was also completely sexual.

[Uncle JUICE]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

Ah! Good point, I agree. And yes, the 69 scene is a great example of the opposite. And I think that one, in particularly, was thoroughly discussed from just that angle. That is, what kind of sex are they having after their enforced separation and why--iow, what kind of sex scene is Paige walking in on. When it was hinted what was going to happen it seemed like the scene was going to be like a dirty joke. Instead it was quiet with soft lighting and mostly just projected affection and intimacy. But the butt, among other things, made it clear it was also completely sexual.

I wish I could remember the name of the episode with that end montage in S4 where Phillip and Elizabeth take refuge in each other's arms, it's beautiful and visceral and clear that this is the only place they both feel entirely 'safe' being who they are. It's intercut with Martha, Gabriel, Randle, Stan, and it's Under Pressure. I mean just thinking about it now, I get choked up, I loved that scene so much. I think it took advantage of the real life relationship between them really expertly. It was incredible, but not for eroticism (which was present but not overt), for conveying so much with no words. 

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I wish I could remember the name of the episode with that end montage in S4 where Phillip and Elizabeth take refuge in each other's arms, it's beautiful and visceral and clear that this is the only place they both feel entirely 'safe' being who they are.

I think it's Clark's Place. Excellent ep!

[Uncle JUICE]

I checked and it was. And it's surprisingly directed by Stan Beamon! Holy shit bro, go find you a Game of Thrones episode to direct! Well done!

[jjj]

I really thought Paige's religious phase (which may still be ongoing) was more about having found an adult who could give her the attention she needed, at a time when her parents were MIA from Paige's point of view.  Plus, the religion events (going to church, baptism) seriously bugged her parents, so a bonus.  I am not at all surprised that Paige has moved on to a normal hormonal relationship with the guy next door.  Plus, going out with Matthew lets her have more time with Stan, and I feel like Paige's need for an audience has shifted away from Pastor Time, and on to Stan and Matthew.  But her desire to have adult males recognize her unhappiness was almost disastrous with Pastor Tim ("here's my family's secret!") and her secrets are one way to keep Stan's attention, if she ever feels it wavering.  Matthew is in this for the potential sex and Paige would not need to use the family secrets to keep his attention. But Stan is looking for someone to take care of, and Paige is looking for adult sympathy.  Very volatile. 

[henripootel]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But Directorate-S is its own thing, iirc. They shouldn't all have competing Directorate-S type agents.

GRU was military intelligence, and while their duties overlapped with the KGB, they were totally separate.  I mentioned previous once reading a memoir by a KGB officer who brushed up against someone he thought was GRU so he bumped it up to the Centre.  They confirmed it and told him in no uncertain terms to stay out of the way.  This (and something else I half remember) left me with the impression that if the GRU asked for KGB files, they were sent immediately, whereas the KGB needed a good reason for even talking to the GRU.  I may be wrong here. 

[gwhh]

12 hours ago, Bretton said:

As much as I love this show (and it really IS my favorite show in the history of television), I still find it's depiction of Paige's religious experience really unrealistic. Not long ago she was a die-hard Jesus-freak, and now she's dating a guy who's not only not part of her church, but who's showing no interest in God whatsoever? I just don't buy it. She would, at the very least, feel conflicted - VERY conflicted. And re: sex, she would have a whole different perspective on that having been indoctrinated in a Christian youth group the previous year. 

Now, if her religiosity was just a phase, that died out when Pastor Tim fell to earth in her eyes, then the showrunners should have made that much more abundantly clear. Religious devotion is not something that wears off overnight like a temporary tattoo.

My frustration with the lack of reality behind the religious angle began with Tim and his totally unrealistic church. As I mentioned last season, churches in America tend (and almost always are) either scripturally conservative or socially progressive. They are very rarely both. Even Elizabeth said she liked how "left wing" the church was. The thing is, in real-world America in the 1980s, a church that really pushed the importance of Jesus and reading the Bible, as Tim did, would be very unlikely to be socially progressive. 

The worst line of the entire show -- and again, I LOVE this show -- was when Tim said, regarding what really matters: "... how we treat each other" I rolled my eyes into moon orbit. No - and I mean NO - pastor who went around preaching the importance of Jesus and the Bible (i.e. who was religiously conservative) would be caught dead saying something like that. In fact, conservative Christian pastors would have railed against such an idea - even going so far as to say "it doesn't matter AT ALL how we treat each other, unless you're saved and going to Heaven".

Sorry, but on this point, the showrunners simply can't have their cake and eat it too. Not if they wish to maintain an air of believability.

Okay, rant over. Carry on...

I agree. Left wing churches back than and today are more about social,justice, world peace and more taxes on the rich.  There belief is the Bible a social contact on how we treat each other and How much taxes go to the poor.   

But the KGB started  in the 1960's of making a lot of far left churches even more far left and basically all of South American Catholic Church was changed into a far left socialism PR machine. 

[sistermagpie]

30 minutes ago, gwhh said:

I agree. Left wing churches back than and today are more about social,justice, world peace and more taxes on the rich.  There belief is the Bible a social contact on how we treat each other and How much taxes go to the poor.   

But to be fair, the original poster's point was that there are things about Pastor Tim's church that flag it as scripturally conservative, so it's not just using the Bible to mean social justice. I don't know what kind of stuff they do in Youth Group in those kinds of churches, but I would still bet that any talk about sexuality would be very different from Philip and Elizabeth's view. 

In fact, I'd also point out that Paige already dresses very conservatively and there are scenes at church where she dresses even more so, in a skirt. Which costume-wise again reads as goody-two shoes. Pastor Tim has admitted he comes out of the anti-war movement of the 60s and he's into social justice definitely, but he doesn't come across like a hippie socially. Just to be clear, I know there are plenty of kids who go to youth group and also do a lot of sex drugs and rock-n-roll, but everything about Paige's church that we've seen implies not that.

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Leaves of Grass stars Ed  Norton and it is very much his film - more so than Keri's. She is very sweet in this film and if you like this sort of thing, we get to see quite a lot of her naked feet. I have a feeling the cinematographer had a foot fetish. So I guess your level of enjoyment with this film might depend on just how much you like Keri's naked feet. Some people find them much more erotic than do others. I would have preferred that they would have shown some other parts of her body instead of just her feet. But, her feet are awfully sweet. She doesn't have a very big part in this movie. But she portrays a very sweet girl next door and it's very easy to fall in love with her.

Also, the film, "Waitress" depicts Keri as a very simple small town waitress. She is the main character in this film and she is very lovable as a waitress. This movie is good fun. If you have not seen these, I hope you will enjoy them.

You have just named the two KR movies that really got me to see that she was becoming a decent actress.  The characters she plays on Waitress and Leaves of Grass could not be more different then Elizabeth.

I think Elizabeth is so constrained and cold, that it might be easy to overlook her acting abilities.  Phillip gets the more showy emotional scenes on this show.

[scrb]

15 minutes ago, qtpye said:

You have just named the two KR movies that really got me to see that she was becoming a decent actress.  The characters she plays on Waitress and Leaves of Grass could not be more different then Elizabeth.

I think Elizabeth is so constrained and cold, that it might be easy to overlook her acting abilities.  Phillip gets the more showy emotional scenes on this show.

KR showed acting chops on Felicity, from the beginning.  Before then she'd been in a couple of teen films as some object of desire and not much more.

Does she get nude in The Waitress?

[Dowel Jones]

6 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I've never seen that kind of training. Swinging one arm from side to side. How is that related to self defense? I sure don't get it.

It did seem rather ineffective to me, also, although part of it I ascribed to Paige's resentment over having to train.  I wonder if the writers were taking a slight potshot at the old "wax on, wax off" routine from Karate Kid. 

[sistermagpie]

20 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

It did seem rather ineffective to me, also, although part of it I ascribed to Paige's resentment over having to train.  I wonder if the writers were taking a slight potshot at the old "wax on, wax off" routine from Karate Kid. 

I kinda hope this whole self-defense thing fails just to counter that whole trope, actually. I mean, the cliche is for Paige to be a badass by the end and at some point do some move that saves her or someone else, but it'd be just as in-character for the show to be a dead end or a way for Elizabeth's plans for Paige to get rejected while Paige finds her own way of dealing with things. Whenever Elizabeth is too happy about molding Paige in some way there's got to be a twist coming. The finger-rubbing technique, perhaps significantly, is a) more of a compromise and b) something both parents are teaching her. 

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't understand what you mean. Why would the showrunners rely on us to supply a time jump that isn't happening on screen?

Here's what I mean. It doesn't matter whether I see breath or don't see breath. I disregard all such things that would "timestamp" the episode. The real time that has elapsed since the last season (i.e., a year) is the most relevant factor in how much time I "feel" has elapsed between the events of last season and this one. Even if I were bingewatching last season's episodes and this season's episodes in one sitting, I'd still recognize that one season had ended and another begun. And I think the show runners understand that I "feel" the time lapse, so that I don't get all caught up in questions like "How did Philip and Elizabeth cultivate Tuan in the space of a week?", and they don't get all caught up in needing to explain it.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[henripootel]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

It did seem rather ineffective to me, also, although part of it I ascribed to Paige's resentment over having to train.  I wonder if the writers were taking a slight potshot at the old "wax on, wax off" routine from Karate Kid. 

On a guess, I think she was acquainting Paige with actually hitting someone.  You'd be surprised how few people have done that in real life, and are reluctant to do so even when you're learning a martial art.  This is the first lesson: you are gonna make contact so get used to it.  I expect they'll quickly advance to actual bruises and a split lip or two - you can't be afraid of taking a hit or two in a real fight.  I seem to recall that Elizabeth is a graduate of the school of 'getting the shit beat out of you', so I'm guessing she knows this. 

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The finger-rubbing technique,

Speaking of which, what is Paige going to think whenever someone holds up and rubs their thumb/forefinger in the classic "world's smallest violin" jibe?

[gwhh]

On 3/17/2017 at 7:02 AM, MissBluxom said:

This is quite the mystery.

I wonder if Keri could possibly be so vain as to realize that she only has a few more years available to show off her lovely body and she is the one making this happen?

Somehow, I have difficulty believing that. But it really is a mystery. The shots of her naked body are clearly not integral to the plots. So why is this happening?

If it's not coming from Keri, then who else would be pushing for this?

I'd really like to know. From what I've heard and seen of her in public appearances, she just does not seem like the kind of lady who would have a need to flaunt her physical beauty. I would guess that she understands the relative value of her physical appearance vesus her abilities as an actor. Especially since she is now a mother, I would think she would not feel the need to display that kind of behavior. Usually, it's just youngsters who have not experienced very much of life who behave in that way.

So, maybe there is some other reason for this? Could the network be trying to show off their star in order to increase ratings somehow? It sure doesn't seem like a sensible way to drive ratings because this show is not targeted to the kind of audience that would get excited over that kind of thing. I must be missing the point somehow.

But, I still believe this is the best show on TV and it keeps on getting better all the time.

Holly weird is a place that makes working at the KGB/CIA look like as complicated a Boy Scout meeting at the local catholic high school.  So who knows why and how things get done  

KR has a great body and great hair   She been showing off the goods for the last 20 year in holly weird .  Plus one topless science many years ago.  

Maybe she just like show offing the goods for $100,000 plus each time   Maybe she enjoys showing off her hot body after 3 kids   Maybe it turns her on that so many want her and she enjoys putting on the show.  Or maybe she just doing it for the money!!   Lots of woman are getting naked over 50 and looking great.  In the meat market that is HW.  Being age over 35 is the same as 75.   In Europe, woman are looked at as fine wines. Better with age .  But a lot of woman are now going topless way over 40 in the last decade or so   So maybe it's just times a changing  

If I had a 8 plus body  I would show it off as much as I could.  No matter if I got paid or not .  Maybe it's just as simple as that  

Personally, I've had a thing for her since day one as an actress. Great hair, great voice, lithely body.  Great actress. She is getting a bit thin now a days. I would like her to add some muscle to her frame. She getting too thin in my view. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by gwhh

[Bretton]

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But to be fair, the original poster's point was that there are things about Pastor Tim's church that flag it as scripturally conservative, so it's not just using the Bible to mean social justice. I don't know what kind of stuff they do in Youth Group in those kinds of churches, but I would still bet that any talk about sexuality would be very different from Philip and Elizabeth's view. 

In fact, I'd also point out that Paige already dresses very conservatively and there are scenes at church where she dresses even more so, in a skirt. Which costume-wise again reads as goody-two shoes. Pastor Tim has admitted he comes out of the anti-war movement of the 60s and he's into social justice definitely, but he doesn't come across like a hippie socially. Just to be clear, I know there are plenty of kids who go to youth group and also do a lot of sex drugs and rock-n-roll, but everything about Paige's church that we've seen implies not that.

Exactly!

My point is not that Tim's church is NOT socially progressive. Clearly it is. But wherein lies the problem is the fact that Tim ALSO puts an emphasis on conservative Bible reading and the central importance of Jesus as providing potential salvation for otherwise lost souls. Those are two different kinds of churches. And I say this having spent my teens and twenties in a broad array of American churches - from conservative Baptist, to both conservative and liberal mainline, to Russian Orthodox and Catholic, to charismatic/Pentecostal. None of the churches I've ever experienced resembled Tim's pastoral perspective.

Also, Paige has come across as a bit of a sexual prude - not surprising based on her church affiliation. So, at the very least, she should have been a little offended by her mother's off-hand comment about sex being no big deal. Elizabeth and Paige have had VASTLY different contextual teachings around sex. And, in a real-world scenario, that would cause a clash. ESPECIALLY when you consider the fact that Paige, as a teenager, thinks she knows everything there is to know, and that all problems in the world stem from adults not living up to some abstract, black and white ideal.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Bretton

[AllyB]

18 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I've never seen that kind of training. Swinging one arm from side to side. How is that related to self defense? I sure don't get it.

That was so weird to me. I've done a lot of MA and Paige's loose shouldered arm swinging looked like the kind of play fighting I might engage with my toddler right ahead of turning into a tickle monster. It seemed designed to lessen the power of a punch not maximise it, was it some sort of dance-y boxercise move or something? The really odd thing is that with so many fight scenes in the show, there has to be actual martial artists involved in choreographing the scenes and training Russell and Rhys. So I don't understand why one of those people wasn't involved in the scene? The thing is that learning how to use your whole body and hit with real power is very cathartic for most people. I could see Elizabeth's idea of training with Paige being really helpful for her in dealing with everything she is going through but not with that weird swingy punchy thing, that would only make Paige even feel even more pissed off and impotent. 

[SlackerInc]

On the podcast they said they asked their martial arts consultant to give them something they haven't seen a thousand times before.

[gwhh]

2 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

On the podcast they said they asked their martial arts consultant to give them something they haven't seen a thousand times before.

I was wondering that also. I wonder if they are using spetsnaz special forces martial arts.  

I cant found out what year they invented that stuff. They come to USA in 1965.   I wonder if they are using time period specific martial arts from the USSR. 

[AllyB]

51 minutes ago, gwhh said:

I was wondering that also. I wonder if they are using spetsnaz special forces martial arts.  

You are right, I went back and watched it a few more times and Paige's punches do actually look a bit like a version of a Systema striking drill. I've never seen the backhand smack she was adding to the back swings though. To me that looks like an aerobic exercise but I know very little about Systema, so it could be a genuine technique. But that, combined with Taylor having a dancer's way of moving is probably what makes it look inefficient and boxercise-y.

Edited March 18, 2017 by AllyB

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, Bretton said:

None of the churches I've ever experienced resembled Tim's pastoral perspective.

I don't think the church is supposed to represent a specific denomination. To me it's always seemed to be Tim's particular ideas of Christianity. The seeming contradictions don't bother me, as the Bible itself is teeming with them.

Edited March 18, 2017 by dubbel zout

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, gwhh said:

Maybe she just like show offing the goods for $100,000 plus each time   Maybe she enjoys showing off her hot body after 3 kids   Maybe it turns her on that so many want her and she enjoys putting on the show.  Or maybe she just doing it for the money!!   Lots of woman are getting naked over 50 and looking great.  In HW over 35 is the same as 75.   In Europe, woman are looked at as fine wines. Better with age . 

I think the more obvious answer is just that she's an actress who's okay with doing some nudity in the service of a thing she's working on. Since the show's using nudity to convey meaning, she's okay with doing it. As is Matthew Rhys and other actors on the show who've done the same partial nudity.

16 hours ago, henripootel said:

This is the first lesson: you are gonna make contact so get used to it.  I expect they'll quickly advance to actual bruises and a split lip or two - you can't be afraid of taking a hit or two in a real fight.  I seem to recall that Elizabeth is a graduate of the school of 'getting the shit beat out of you', so I'm guessing she knows this. 

Elizabeth's whole approach seems tied to the season's theme of weakness through the eyes of people who grew up with violence (or were introduced to it early and traumatically).  So Elizabeth didn't talk to Paige about getting used to the sensation of contact, she put it right in the context of weakness, not being afraid of hitting or being hit because you had to do anything to protect yourself. Iow, it’s all about kill or be killed. Any self-defense usually requires teaching the person to be aggressive, but you know Elizabeth also wants to toughen Paige up in general. That’s come up on the show before, but with Tuan and Pasha etc. it seems like it’s a bigger concept. But Paige is coming from a background of avoiding violence. In the pilot Philip pretends to back down in front of the creep at the mall and tells Paige fighting would make it worse, and she agrees. Then she was at the church and into non-violence. In the last ep she said she didn’t want to “get better” with violence. Paige would be getting the shit kicked out of her by her mom.

12 hours ago, Bretton said:

Also, Paige has come across as a bit of a sexual prude - not surprising based on her church affiliation. So, at the very least, she should have been a little offended by her mother's off-hand comment about sex being no big deal. Elizabeth and Paige have had VASTLY different contextual teachings around sex.

Yes, it just seems like something you have to address given the different perspectives. First you’ve got two people who were not only brought up with a certain official stance on sexuality, but whose own sexualities were hijacked at around Paige’s age in the service of the cause. So their view of sex is pretty extreme and unusual and pragmatic. In fact, Paige already early on leapt to the conclusion that her parents dishonesty was about sex and I’d say she judged them for it. It was one of the things that made Pastor Tim a better person, that he was saving the world while her parents were just focused on their comfortable lives and running around lying and maybe cheating on each other.

Then you’ve got Paige the regular American teenager, who would probably, given what we saw of her early on, be very connected to emotions. She’s contrasted with Kimmie, a girl who seems to have more casual sexual experience and has a life/style to match. For Paige sexuality has always been associated with romance and she wants honesty in relationships, which is why it’s very reasonable for her parents to worry about her revealing them to a boy she likes.

On top of that you’ve got a whole story where she became obsessed with church and a teen youth group. We don’t know exactly what view of sexuality they would have since we didn’t see it, but if it’s a group to help teenagers get through life under the church’s guidance of course that would be a topic of conversation. When Paige talks about thing her friends have said about sex it’s almost always about somebody’s parents having an affair—something that brought her to church to begin with. She made Pastor Tim her authority on everything and what we see of the guy is a pastor with a very traditional marriage to a wife who wears jumpers and the two of them do things like take Paige out miniature golfing. He might not be preaching fire and brimstone and the evils of sex before marriage, but it would make sense if he taught about sex as a sacred thing you did with someone you love and maybe even true love waits. The guy’s always seemed to want relationships with the families in his church and that would probably make him more popular with parents.

13 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think the church is supposed to represent a specific denomination. To me it's always seemed to be Tim's particular ideas of Christianity. 

Right, but there’s a reason certain things usually go together. Short of Tim having his own personal cult religion that we can’t understand he ought to be following the patterns of actual religion.  (It’s presented as a very ordinary, middle-class white suburban church, not any sort of outlier.) The reason being scriptually conservative often goes along with being socially conservative is that you find more of the latter in the former. You’re focusing on the past, so often guarding yourself against the present and the future. You’re looking up rules, not following your heart. Focusing on the details of a society from thousands of years ago, not taking general concepts and applying them to the present. At least that seems how it logically works to me. When the Bible conflicts with modern ideas about justice, you go with the Bible.

[SlackerInc]

But you can always focus on the Beatitudes if you have a liberal bent.

[Clanstarling]

On 3/15/2017 at 8:49 AM, tennisgurl said:

P+E teaching Paige to disengage during sex was just sad to me. I think they are trying to be good parents, while still being careful in the best ways they can. They aren't trying to use Paige as an asset here, they're just trying to keep their cover from being blow. A thing Paige already did once, so its an understandable worry.

I guess I heard something different than everyone else. Although the conversation started out about sex, my take was that the technique was more for Paige to use when she was feeling overwhelmed and unsure of herself, than to use expressly during or after sex. Essentially a calming, meditative technique. The beginning of spycraft. Or a spy's version of WWJD.

If Stan's new girlfriend is not what she seems, I lean toward her being an American spying on Stan. His continual insistence that Oleg be left alone, that he's a hell of a guy, may have raised a few eyebrows in various bureaus who might now wonder if Stan had been turned.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Clanstarling

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I guess I heard something different than everyone else. Although the conversation started out about sex, my take was that the technique was more for Paige to use when she was feeling overwhelmed and unsure of herself, than to use expressly during or after sex. Essentially a calming, meditative technique. The beginning of spycraft. Or a spy's version of WWJD.

Yes, I thought the point was more about times when she felt so emotionally overwhelmed she might spill the beans, most obviously. Sex only came into it because it was likely to make her emotions about Matthew more intense. It wasn't about disengaging during sex, necessarily, but just something to counteract the intense feelings she might feel in this kind of relationship.

If she'd had this technique at the end of S3 she might not have called Pastor Tim in a fit of emotion. Elizabeth totally missed how emotional Paige was at that point. Now she can see it coming.

[AllyB]

14 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

If Stan's new girlfriend is not what she seems, I lean toward her being an American spying on Stan. His continual insistence that Oleg be left alone, that he's a hell of a guy, may have raised a few eyebrows in various bureaus who might now wonder if Stan had been turned.

Along with his insistence on how good a woman Nina was and the efforts he went to to get the FBI to trade her back. My first thought was that too. She may well just be a woman from the gym, in the same way that Tim is just a pastor. But I wouldn't be surprised if she was conducting some sort of FBI internal affairs investigation into Stan. It's not just his relationships with Rezidentura staff, Gaad's death, Martha's disappearance after Stan implicated her, the trouble Vlad's murder caused and even Amador and Gene's deaths and the two bugs that were found in the FBI counter-intelligence offices. All happening since Stan joined the department, along with Stan swinging from being an absolute top agent getting medals and calls from the president, to pain in the ass agent who makes life harder for his bosses and can be very obstructive at times. I could see there being a definite aura of suspicion about whether he really was that good an agent or if the Russians were giving away occasionally taking 'losses' to make him look good (which they were in season 2).

It's kind of gross to think that he and the new woman will probably have sex in order for her to get close to him. Somehow having sex with one of your own people in order to gauge their loyalty seems worse to me than what P&E do.

[Bretton]

Quote

To me it's always seemed to be Tim's particular ideas of Christianity.

I never said the church was meant to represent a particular denomination. But as Sister Magpie pointed out, a show, if it wants to be taken seriously, has to base these things in 1980s American reality. For the record, I've been to non-denominational churches too. And almost always they tend to towards the conservative end of the spectrum - both socially and scripturally. You VERY rarely get some dude or dudette who's liberal, who decides to go start up his/her own church. I guess this bothers others less than me because not everyone has that degree of experience in actual American Christianity. But, for the record, once people move towards a more liberal leaning on scripture reading, and on salvific claims of particular deities, their spirituality evolves towards a more universal love vibe. And once that's happened, they rarely feel the need to go and start a church, per se - though they may very well decide to express their spirituality in other personal or organized ways. There do exist universalist churches, of course. Although they are in the extreme minority.

And more importantly, to my original point, I never claimed liberal churches don't exist -- mainline churches are perfect examples of churches that evolved theologically while holding onto to themselves organizationally - to the point where a particular belief about Jesus or the Bible was no longer central or even important. HOWEVER --- the issue with Tim and his church is that he's a contradiction that doesn't exist - or almost never, anyways - in that the church is flagged as BOTH scripturally conservative AND socially progressive. And again, that almost never occurs - even less so in the 1980s. If more Tim-like non-denominational Evangelicals existed, for instance, you would have had a whole lot support for someone like Bernie Sanders than you did Donald Trump in the last election. And how did that work out?

[SlackerInc]

4 hours ago, AllyB said:

She may well just be a woman from the gym, in the same way that Tim is just a pastor. But I wouldn't be surprised if she was conducting some sort of FBI internal affairs investigation into Stan. It's not just his relationships with Rezidentura staff, Gaad's death, Martha's disappearance after Stan implicated her, the trouble Vlad's murder caused and even Amador and Gene's deaths and the two bugs that were found in the FBI counter-intelligence offices. All happening since Stan joined the department, along with Stan swinging from being an absolute top agent getting medals and calls from the president, to pain in the ass agent who makes life harder for his bosses and can be very obstructive at times. I could see there being a definite aura of suspicion about whether he really was that good an agent or if the Russians were giving away occasionally taking 'losses' to make him look good (which they were in season 2).

4 hours ago, Bretton said:

HOWEVER --- the issue with Tim and his church is that he's a contradiction that doesn't exist - or almost never, anyways - in that the church is flagged as BOTH scripturally conservative AND socially progressive.

For some reason, the board software decided to smush those two quotes together, not giving me any space between them.  So I will number my replies (1) for AllyB and (2) for Bretton.

(1) There's a definite tension when you have someone working as a double agent, in terms of how much to give away in what you are calling "losses" in scare quotes.  They've addressed that on the show before.  But there's no way the Soviets would give up the "tip of the century" like they did with William, just to earn brownie points for Stan, who even if turned would be a less valuable asset than William.  (Remember, it was Gaad's desk the Centre wanted bugged, not Stan's.)  And the FBI knows that.

(2) I question your basic premise.  Where is the evidence that this church is "scripturally conservative"?  Please, if you would, cite specific lines from specific episodes that I can verify.

Edited March 19, 2017 by SlackerInc
Grammar

[Sarah 103]

On 3/15/2017 at 10:52 AM, Kathemy said:

My feeling is rooted in the fact that I see Oleg and Stan as very similar people. They both have a private "sense of honor" and seem to really want to "do the right thing". Oleg did that when warning Stan. I could see Stan returning the favor in some manner.

I agree with you. Stan and Oleg see each other as equals. It's a worthy opponent type scenario. If the roles had been reversed, Stan would have done the same thing. 

On 3/15/2017 at 11:49 AM, tennisgurl said:

Poor Oleg. He is all kinds of screwed, just for trying to do the right thing. He is smart enough and decent enough to actually make a real difference in his government, but now, with the CIA looking to trap him, it looks like this isn't going to turn out well for him. "Hey Oleg, we totally appreciate the huge solid you did us. Now, could you please continue to help us unwillingly, or we will make sure you and your family get a one way trip to the gulag?" His poor mom. She will probably lose both her sons to political bullshit now. Also, shallow, but Oleg has somehow gotten even HOTTER this season. Damn.

I appreciate Stan trying to have Oleg's back, even though it looks like he wont be able to help much. It also seems like his bosses just don't Get It. They seem to think Stan is making a big deal about Oleg possibly getting killed or worse because he's trying to make a power play, or because he's pissed at his new bosses, not just because Stan really just respects Oleg and doesn't want to see him get killed for doing the right thing.

I'd like to think that Oleg is smart enough to find a way out of his problem. It is shallow, but Oleg is hot and one of my favorite parts of the series. There is a great deal of respect between Stan and Oleg, which is part of what makes their scenes together so great. 

On 3/15/2017 at 0:06 PM, RedHawk said:

I laughed to myself that maybe Bennigan's decor is ALWAYS St. Patrick's Day

Bennigan's is Irish themed, so it's possible that the decor makes it look like it is always St. Patrick's Day

On 3/15/2017 at 0:49 AM, Umbelina said:

kids of Paige's age had parents that lived in the sixties, free love, birth control pills, and all that.  She wouldn't be the only parent around in the mid eighties that could talk frankly about sex, and not be freaked out by the natural horniness of teenagers.

I was surprised they didn't mention some mention of birth control like pills, condoms, or something else as an afterthought. 

On 3/15/2017 at 5:44 AM, Umbelina said:

Henry broke into a different neighbor's house, and has his secret box of stuff carefully secured under floorboards.  He's a born spy! 

Henry is also the one who figured out they were in dangerous situation while hitchhiking home from the mall and was not afraid to use violence/physical force to get away. The KGB is going after the wrong kid.

On 3/15/2017 at 5:33 AM, shura said:

I am wondering about Oleg. He is a spy, he must be aware that the CIA is going to try to develop him in some way since he has exposed himself by committing treason. Was his plan simply to go to Moscow and not think about that anymore?

Oleg's plan was to go to Moscow and get some distance between himself and the FBI. He probably figured the move would give him some distance and some time to figure out some sort of plan, but he didn't have enough time to come up with one. 

On 3/15/2017 at 10:22 AM, Kathemy said:

I am starting to wonder if the real shocker twist of this season will in fact be Stan turning on his employers.

This would be an amazing twist. I would love to see what would happen to make Stan start actively working against the United States and for the other side. The poltline would work much better in the final season as opposed to this season I completely agree with you on this.

On 3/15/2017 at 5:39 PM, Cosmosgravitation said:

Henry has always seemed more suited to spy work, but maybe that is exactly why the writers decided on Paige.

I know the show won't go this far into the future, but it would be fantastic if Henry decided to become an FBI agent all on his own. Between when his training ends and he starts his first assignment he goes home for a visit. Elizabeth and Philip tell him they need to have a serious talk in the laundry room. 

On 3/15/2017 at 6:15 PM, zibnchy said:

If I was P&E I'd be way, way less worried about Matthew and way more worried about the first time Paige gets drunk with her friends and the conversation turns to whose family is the Worst. "You think your mom is bad, mine is a Russian spy and let me tell you about this one time she killed a guy in front of me. That was soooo embarrassing!"

Why did P&E have Henry? Wasn't one child enough to reinforce the fiction of happy, little American family. Couldn't the Center have gotten them a Tuan of their very own if they needed another kid?

I need to see proof that Martha is still alive.

But Paige could always get out of it by saying she was drunk and didn't mean it. Her cover lie might be something like, Henry and I were watching a spy movie, or she was reading an espionage thriller for fun. Elizabeth and Philip had sex resulting in a pregnancy. They decided to keep the baby instead of terminating the pregnancy or putting the baby up for adoption. I would love to see what Martha is doing in the Soviet Union, assuming that she is still alive. It does not have to be a season long story-arc. I'd be happy with a single scene. 

On 3/15/2017 at 4:08 PM, sistermagpie said:

 Stan saying "She knows more about sports than you do!" We know Philip follows sports so I don't think Philip's sports knowledge is actually lacking,

My theory is that she is some type of agent (but I have no idea who she might be working for). They know exactly what type of person Stan responds to and what his interests are. 

On 3/16/2017 at 0:37 AM, gwhh said:

Maybe the KGB working on Henry with a honey pot trap like they did with Jared.  Would explain his absences this season. 

Makes you wonder where Henry is and what he's really doing when Paige says he's at the arcade. Personally, I think he actually is just playing video games at the arcade. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by Sarah 103

[SlackerInc]

@Sarah 103: Do we know for sure Henry was right that they were in danger?  I always thought it seemed like a real possibility, but never really proven.

I agree with you though about wanting to see at least one scene with Martha!

[MisterBluxom]

I won't be surprised if we never again see the Pastor or hear anything about him.

He was never terribly popular among the fans and I wonder if the show runners just decided they had done all they could do with him and that things just didn't work out very well and there is no where else to go.

Either that or maybe his agent decided he was worth a lot more money and started making demands? I don't really know. But I sure won't object if we never seen him again. Maybe the way fans react to a character or a story line will impact the show runners and maybe they will listen to what the fans have to say and just kill him off without any actual violence?

I  won't complain.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

@Sarah 103: Do we know for sure Henry was right that they were in danger?  I always thought it seemed like a real possibility, but never really proven.

I agree with you though about wanting to see at least one scene with Martha!

I thought he was dead on, myself. The guy was getting pretty aggressive (verbally) when they wanted to leave, and he had driven them to someplace other than where they wanted to go (and where he said he was going), and decided they should drink some beer. Those are huge red flags, in my book.

[sistermagpie]

28 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I thought he was dead on, myself. The guy was getting pretty aggressive (verbally) when they wanted to leave, and he had driven them to someplace other than where they wanted to go (and where he said he was going), and decided they should drink some beer. Those are huge red flags, in my book.

Absolutely. Henry was picking up on all of them, he had a plan for when the guy didn't want them to leave, noticed the guy's knife, correctly noted that the guy was lying and had his own agenda. Even if the guy wasn't going to use that knife to assault Paige, I think Henry was right. He'd done enough to show it.

6 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

He was never terribly popular among the fans and I wonder if the show runners just decided they had done all they could do with him and that things just didn't work out very well and there is no where else to go.

We definitely will see him again, imo. Paige is probably going to be babysitting for him. She still thinks that tape exists and finding it will save them. They know the truth about P&E. As much as the Jennings would want him to just go away, he can't. That's central to the story of Paige spilling the beans to him. All they can do is manage him because he's always a danger. We're all stuck with him.

My prediction based on just little shots in commercials is that Paige is going to babysit for him and search the house for the tape--whether on her own or because her parents encourage her to do that I don't know. I would guess she's doing it on her own since if her parents were in on it they'd just come over while she was there and search with her.

11 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Makes you wonder where Henry is and what he's really doing when Paige says he's at the arcade. Personally, I think he actually is just playing video games at the arcade. 

I definitely don't think he was at the arcade --and that was just a guess on Paige's part anyway. We've had two lines about how he's got something new going on. I'm sure we'll find out what it is soon.

Edited March 19, 2017 by sistermagpie

[AllyB]

I thought Alice said the tape was with her lawyer? Not at their house. Even if they had a copy at the house, it's unlikely to be the only one, having it with a lawyer makes sense. You couldn't trust that the lawyer or the 'Tims' don't have several copies in various locations. It's what I'd do in their shoes.

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

On 3/15/2017 at 10:22 AM, Kathemy said:

I am starting to wonder if the real shocker twist of this season will in fact be Stan turning on his employers.

This would be an amazing twist. I would love to see what would happen to make Stan start actively working against the United States and for the other side. The poltline would work much better in the final season as opposed to this season I completely agree with you on this.

Stan might not like what his superiors are doing to Oleg, but I can't see Stan ever betraying the U.S.

[Kathemy]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Stan might not like what his superiors are doing to Oleg, but I can't see Stan ever betraying the U.S.

I can't see Stan betraying the US in any other sense than Oleg betrayed the Soviet Union. Oleg is still a patriot, he's still loyal to Mother Russia and its people, but he felt the behavior of his superiors was unethical to the degree of him taking action against them in one instance. As Stan himself said, Oleg "can't be turned."

That's the way I could potentially see Stan acting as well.

[dubbel zout]

That's what I meant. He doesn't like what's happening to Oleg specifically. That doesn't mean he'd commit treason and put the entire U.S. at risk. Stan still believes in the overall fight.

As for Henry, I wonder what would be more galling to his parents: He becomes an FBI agent (or something along those lines), or he invents a useless thing (à la the pet rock) that makes him insanely wealthy and he's now a capitalist pig? 

[Kathemy]

10 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That's what I meant. He doesn't like what's happening to Oleg specifically. That doesn't mean he'd commit treason and put the entire U.S. at risk. Stan still believes in the overall fight.

Well, that's what I meant too. Technically Oleg committed treason, though in his mind, he didn't "put the entire Soviet Union at risk." Oleg still believes in the overall fight. Stan wouldn't "put the entire United States at risk", but I could potentially see him going against his superiors when it came to an isolated incident. Which, technically, is treason.

No matter how you swing it or how it will turn out, though, I am very confident that it's no coincidence how Stan is now confronted with exactly how callous some of the people he works for truly are, and that this will serve an important purpose.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Kathemy
Spelling error

[jjj]

I really think Henry is just going to be out of the equation this season.  He looks taller than Phillip by now, and it is a odd dynamic to have Paige be SpyGirl while this tall person (who is no longer a pesky little kid) is sitting around the table but not part of the inner circle.  I almost wish they had re-cast the role of Henry to keep a little kid in the mix who clearly has no business in the spy game. 

When Stan is talking about Oleg ("he can't be turned; leave him alone!"), is he really talking about Stan?  I think he really identified with Oleg, and I could see parallel stories of Oleg and Stan being under pressure to work for the other side.  The pressure could be internal (just not agreeing with the methods of the home team) or external -- Oleg blackmailed into cooperating to protect his parents, for example.  I think Oleg will end up in a very tough spot -- I also got the sense that his parents could be in peril from Oleg's new job, and the need to follow the trail of corruption wherever it lead him.  So, Oleg might end up pushed from both sides.