S21.E10: Week 10/S21.E11: The Women Tell All

[ByTor]

9 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

It was obvious she and the blonde with the dead fiance were friends and talking about people.

By "she" do you mean Vanessa?  Was Danielle the one Vanessa was talking to about "D Lo"?  I swear, everybody is blending!

[catrice2]

Vanessa and the blonde.  She has done nothing but repeat she wants to be "special "etc.  She will lap up the attention they receive by being a tv couple.  She has been rehearsing fir Jimmy Kimmel etc for weeks.  She knew Raven was no competition and was not worried abt Rachel.  There has been no romance or suspense in anything I saw.  How special are you when he is kissing and touching other women the whole time?  

Yes I remember because that was the first time I heard DLO and was annoyed and a little disappointed  to hear it from Vanessa.  It just sounds childish.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Bachelor Leaves A Lady In Lapland

But which one? I'm sure none of us has ANY idea. And then the Women Tell All.

[truthaboutluv]

18 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Yes I remember because that was the first time I heard DLO and was annoyed and a little disappointed  to hear it from Vanessa.  It just sounds childish.

D-Lo is the nickname Danielle L herself goes by. It wasn't Vanessa or the women who gave it to her. 

18 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

 There has been no romance or suspense in anything I saw.  How special are you when he is kissing and touching other women the whole time?  

So basically every single couple that has come out of this show - whether still together or broken up.

[yorklee2]

5 hours ago, MsPH said:

ike someone already said, her "core value" might just be Sunday time with family, whether that means her relatives or her own family with her future husband.

Then why didn't she specify this in the conversation. They were talking about a serious subject and as much as I feel Vanessa cares for Nick why would she not have made that clear so he would understand exactly what she meant.

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I'm sure we all were and I think many are acknowledging that we likely didn't see a full conversation in its entirety from the start of the date to the end of the date. Would you agree with that?

I have stated this numerous times in my posts so yes I think that's a possibility. I think that many of my fellow posters feel I blindly dislike Vanessa and blindly love Raven. Not so. I think I have made my views of them known clearly throughout the season. I hope we all can agree that this show can take these contestants from being likable to a villain and vice versa and we've seen shades of this with both Vanessa and Raven. I don't extremely hate or love either one. My thing is being all about fairness.

Vanessa could have said much more before of after the hot tub discussion that we didn't see but this whole debate has been about what we know she did say. We can all speculate what she really meant or what she didn't say that was or wasn't edited out but all we really have to go on is what they show us. Do I think there was more to it? Possibly but they had more discussion later that night and she never went further to specify exactly what she meant in the hot tub. We are all just speculating. Do I think the producers prod and cajole these contestants to get out there perception or the story they want? Definitely. But we don't know when or where they specifically do that. Again we can only speculate.

So as I said before I'm all about fairness. To use Raven for an example when she told her stories about the fight with her ex and her lack of orgasm, while I thought there may have been some producer prodding, I agreed with everyone that those stories were cringe worthy and TMI. Just as I agree that there may have been extra footage with the Vanessa conversation that we were not shown. But I have to wonder where were you the ones, who have made it known they don't like Raven, then to say there was bad editing, she didn't really mean it the way we were shown or even that she was prodded by the producers to reveal it? Bottom line though is she said what she said. Just as Vanessa did. We saw it so why can't we call a spade a spade?

That has been my issue all along. Fairness. And as I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about this I will leave it at that. So as MsPH said, I guess we are just going to have to disagree on this.

[ByTor]

10 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

So as I said before I'm all about fairness. To use Raven for an example when she told her stories about the fight with her ex and her lack of orgasm, while I thought there may have been some producer prodding, I agreed with everyone that those stories were cringe worthy and TMI. Just as I agree that there may have been extra footage with the Vanessa conversation that we were not shown. But I have to wonder where were you the ones, who have made it known they don't like Raven, then to say there was bad editing, she didn't really mean it the way we were shown or even that she was prodded by the producers to reveal it? Bottom line though is she said what she said. Just as Vanessa did. We saw it so why can't we call a spade a spade?

Completely agree.  Probably an unpopular opinion regarding the bolded part, but I almost wish that show "Unreal" didn't exist, I think there is too much being blamed on producer manipulation.  Does it happen?  Oh yeah, I definitely think so, but I don't think it's as much as we've been led to believe.

[yorklee2]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

Kristen...she was the virgin who Liz made her "confession" to, right?  

So I guess Vanessa did make some friends in the house.

Yes that was her.

[Bugs Meany]

4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Completely agree.  Probably an unpopular opinion regarding the bolded part, but I almost wish that show "Unreal" didn't exist, I think there is too much being blamed on producer manipulation.  Does it happen?  Oh yeah, I definitely think so, but I don't think it's as much as we've been led to believe.

Yes!! Believing that nothing is real/spontaneous is hardly better than believing everything is. If anything it's more annoying to have discussions with the 'nothing' group. They can't be talked out of anything.

[peachmangosteen]

22 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

But I have to wonder where were you the ones, who have made it known they don't like Raven, then to say there was bad editing, she didn't really mean it the way we were shown or even that she was prodded by the producers to reveal it? Bottom line though is she said what she said. Just as Vanessa did. We saw it so why can't we call a spade a spade?

I've definitely seen people on this thread suggest that Raven's stuff was a factor of bad editing, that she didn't mean it that way, and that it was the result of Production prodding.

I do agree though that the only thing you can really go by is what is on screen. Anything else is just pure speculation and it's usually clouded by our own opinions on the people involved.

[yorklee2]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

I've definitely seen people on this thread suggest that Raven's stuff was a factor of bad editing, that she didn't mean it that way, and that it was the result of Production prodding.

I do agree though that the only thing you can really go by is what is on screen. Anything else is just pure speculation and it's usually clouded by our own opinions on the people involved.

Yes but were those people the ones who have stated their dislike for Raven? I don't think so.

Yes I think it can be clouded by our perceptions of the contestants.

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

Yes but were those people the ones who have stated their dislike for Raven? I don't think so.

Oh I don't know. I haven't noticed any clear Raven haters here.

[yorklee2]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

Oh I don't know. I haven't noticed any clear Raven haters here.

Really? Look again.

Maybe "hate" is too strong a word but "strong dislike"? Yeah.

[peachmangosteen]

I'm not going to look through this thread again, but I honestly haven't noticed much Raven dislike. I have noticed some Vanessa hate though, some of which comes from me lol. 

[ribboninthesky1]

1 hour ago, yorklee2 said:

So as I said before I'm all about fairness. To use Raven for an example when she told her stories about the fight with her ex and her lack of orgasm, while I thought there may have been some producer prodding, I agreed with everyone that those stories were cringe worthy and TMI. Just as I agree that there may have been extra footage with the Vanessa conversation that we were not shown. But I have to wonder where were you the ones, who have made it known they don't like Raven, then to say there was bad editing, she didn't really mean it the way we were shown or even that she was prodded by the producers to reveal it? Bottom line though is she said what she said. Just as Vanessa did. We saw it so why can't we call a spade a spade?

 

48 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Completely agree.  Probably an unpopular opinion regarding the bolded part, but I almost wish that show "Unreal" didn't exist, I think there is too much being blamed on producer manipulation.  Does it happen?  Oh yeah, I definitely think so, but I don't think it's as much as we've been led to believe.

Agreed. There have definitely been cases of manipulated dialogue in this franchise, but that's usually when you hear things in voiceover or the ITM clips which are filmed after a scene.  Frankenbiting.  So the show implies something by using a person's words, but we don't actually see the person saying it at the time or in the implied context. I didn't perceive that with the conversations between Nick and Vanessa shown in episode 10.  Did we see all of it? Most likely not.  But viewers are never shown everything discussed.  The entire show is edited, beginning to end.

I don't think you have to like or dislike a contestant to objectively verify what a person is shown saying on camera.   

Edited March 13, 2017 by ribboninthesky1

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I don't think you have to like or dislike a contestant to objectively verify what a person is shown saying on camera.   

I try to go off what is on screen, but I am well aware they can manipulate anything and make something into the exact opposite of what it really was. I watched Big Brother season 8 so I know!

[truthaboutluv]

This is a board where people snark a lot. In other words, if one is ambitious enough, you can find enough evidence to declare everyone has been hated on at some point. In my opinion, Nick has probably gotten the largest brunt of any "hate" in the comments. He's been called everything from creepy to having a Mommy complex and of course the often used famewhore. 

Vanessa has been accused of possibly having mental issues since her family seemed so concerned about her being heartbroken on her HTD, she's obnoxious, an undercover bitch, she exploits her students, she's needy, whiny, etc. 

And yes, Raven has been accused of being an assaulter for her story of beating up her ex-boyfriend with a stiletto (personally I just figured the story was exaggerated but whatever), having no filter for her no-orgasm story, being immature, etc.

In conclusion, everyone has been snarked about at some point. I personally call Danielle L. boobs-a lot because she seemed incapable of wearing an outfit that didn't show off her store bought boobs and I fully own that.

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, truthaboutluv said:

This is a board where people snark a lot. In other words, if one is ambitious enough, you can find enough evidence to declare everyone has been hated on at some point. In

This is so true. It's just so damned easy to hate these idiots. (on the show, not the board, I don't want any misunderstandings)

I would say, if anyone has come out fairly unscathed, it might be Alexis, the Dolphin Shark. Sure, we've snarked about her not knowing the difference between a shark and a dolphin, but she just seemed so playful and fun that I don't think anyone really hated on her.

But really, the longer you stay on this shit show, the more hated you get. Which is probably part of why so many hate Nick. A kind of "overstayed your welcome" thing.

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

D-Lo is the nickname Danielle L herself goes by. It wasn't Vanessa or the women who gave it to her. 

So basically every single couple that has come out of this show - whether still together or broken up.

I don't care.  One of my students wanted be be called "budda,"  not "butter" which is what they were trying to say.  Nicknames and melding of names is for kids and/or the crazy media every since Bennifer.  Just because someone else is childish doesn't mean I have to be.   They can choose not to answer to their real name if they see fit.  One of my pet peeves is people who don't go by their name.  I had seniors who didn't even know their name because they had gone by a nickname or shortening of their name all of their lives. Really helped when they were looking for jobs.  She is not Jennifer Lopez...and I don't like JLO, Bey, etc. either.  I actually took Vanessa as someone who would be more mature than that.   Some women like to be called b's as a "term of endearment."  I wouldn't do that either.  

26 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

This is so true. It's just so damned easy to hate these idiots. (on the show, not the board, I don't want any misunderstandings)

I would say, if anyone has come out fairly unscathed, it might be Alexis, the Dolphin Shark. Sure, we've snarked about her not knowing the difference between a shark and a dolphin, but she just seemed so playful and fun that I don't think anyone really hated on her.

But really, the longer you stay on this shit show, the more hated you get. Which is probably part of why so many hate Nick. A kind of "overstayed your welcome" thing.

Well, I'm sure I "hated" on Alexis.  Her bad boob job and the fact that she looks about 15 years older than 24.  That is one hard looking girl, and she just presents as someone young, immature and just talks about "partying" all the time.  Could be totally different, but that is the perception I got. I totally was not one that was "in love" with Alexis. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by catrice2

[catrice2]

35 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

This is a board where people snark a lot. In other words, if one is ambitious enough, you can find enough evidence to declare everyone has been hated on at some point. In my opinion, Nick has probably gotten the largest brunt of any "hate" in the comments. He's been called everything from creepy to having a Mommy complex and of course the often used famewhore. 

Vanessa has been accused of possibly having mental issues since her family seemed so concerned about her being heartbroken on her HTD, she's obnoxious, an undercover bitch, she exploits her students, she's needy, whiny, etc. 

And yes, Raven has been accused of being an assaulter for her story of beating up her ex-boyfriend with a stiletto (personally I just figured the story was exaggerated but whatever), having no filter for her no-orgasm story, being immature, etc.

In conclusion, everyone has been snarked about at some point. I personally call Danielle L. boobs-a lot because she seemed incapable of wearing an outfit that didn't show off her store bought boobs and I fully own that.

I don't hate Raven, but I find her immature and not attractive.  I also don't take assault stories as funny, but to each their own.  I typically LOVE accents of all kinds, and I just didn't like hers or Kristina's!     People think  I don't like Kristina, and that is not true  I'm just not overly complimentary of her just because of her back story.   To each their own.  I can't honestly say that I was drawn to any of these contestants. 

[RHJunkie]

2 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Then why didn't she specify this in the conversation. They were talking about a serious subject and as much as I feel Vanessa cares for Nick why would she not have made that clear so he would understand exactly what she meant.

I have stated this numerous times in my posts so yes I think that's a possibility. I think that many of my fellow posters feel I blindly dislike Vanessa and blindly love Raven. Not so. I think I have made my views of them known clearly throughout the season. I hope we all can agree that this show can take these contestants from being likable to a villain and vice versa and we've seen shades of this with both Vanessa and Raven. I don't extremely hate or love either one. My thing is being all about fairness.

Vanessa could have said much more before of after the hot tub discussion that we didn't see but this whole debate has been about what we know she did say. We can all speculate what she really meant or what she didn't say that was or wasn't edited out but all we really have to go on is what they show us. Do I think there was more to it? Possibly but they had more discussion later that night and she never went further to specify exactly what she meant in the hot tub. We are all just speculating. Do I think the producers prod and cajole these contestants to get out there perception or the story they want? Definitely. But we don't know when or where they specifically do that. Again we can only speculate.

So as I said before I'm all about fairness. To use Raven for an example when she told her stories about the fight with her ex and her lack of orgasm, while I thought there may have been some producer prodding, I agreed with everyone that those stories were cringe worthy and TMI. Just as I agree that there may have been extra footage with the Vanessa conversation that we were not shown. But I have to wonder where were you the ones, who have made it known they don't like Raven, then to say there was bad editing, she didn't really mean it the way we were shown or even that she was prodded by the producers to reveal it? Bottom line though is she said what she said. Just as Vanessa did. We saw it so why can't we call a spade a spade?

That has been my issue all along. Fairness. And as I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about this I will leave it at that. So as MsPH said, I guess we are just going to have to disagree on this.

I never said I dislike Raven. I like both women and feel that they both have come across as genuine throughout the process. I do personally think that there's a passion there with Vanessa that I don't think is as evident with the other women. But you aren't comparing apples to apples. Vanessa said something that could have had more context to it that we didn't see and therefore there's room for interpretation. Regardless if there was prodding or not, is there another way to interpret Raven saying that she's only been with one man and has never had an orgasm? Is there another way to interpret her throwing a shoe at her ex's head while catching him in the act with another woman? The context of that is understandable anger, there is no context that can gloss over her throwing an object at someone. I don't think the abuse story was something she should have shared, and I really didn't mind the orgasm story except that I felt that the comment was more a dig at her ex than it was about having a real discussion or being curious about having an orgasm...but that's just my interpretation so I won't argue either way what the intent was behind her comment. So in discussing fairness, you still have to consider points that are being debated and the degree of context that can be applied. 

[JenE4]

I'm an equal-opportunity snarker. I don't "hate" anyone--not even in real life. I might find certain qualities or behaviors annoying or self-destructive or what have you, but there's no need to go around hating people. But I will snark the hell on reality show contestants. That's the entire purpose of this site! I don't know what happened to the board this season. There seems to be a lot of serious debates and arguments in which people seem emotionally vested in defending their positions. You could read some of the past season threads for comparison. This has always been a light-hearted, fun and funny group in which everyone snarks on everything about the show and the contestants. Kaitlyn's season comes to mind in which every contestant was a "busted (insert celebrity doppelgänger)." No one got offended by it--we all just made each other laugh. Anyway get ready, because Paradise is Full Snark Zone!!

[GracieK]

On 3/13/2017 at 11:26 PM, JenE4 said:

I'm an equal-opportunity snarker. I don't "hate" anyone--not even in real life. I might find certain qualities or behaviors annoying or self-destructive or what have you, but there's no need to go around hating people. But I will snark the hell on reality show contestants. That's the entire purpose of this site! I don't know what happened to the board this season. There seems to be a lot of serious debates and arguments in which people seem emotionally vested in defending their positions. You could read some of the past season threads for comparison. This has always been a light-hearted, fun and funny group in which everyone snarks on everything about the show and the contestants. Kaitlyn's season comes to mind in which every contestant was a "busted (insert celebrity doppelgänger)." No one got offended by it--we all just made each other laugh. Anyway get ready, because Paradise is Full Snark Zone!!

I couldn't agree with this more! I don't know if people had favorites that they are more fiercely defending than usual or what is with some of the aggressiveness over what turned out to be a pretty lackluster season. Very weird but hopefully it goes back to business as usual for Rachel's season!