S13.E15: Civil War

[gator12]

2 hours ago, AzraelKay said:

 

I think it works [as well as any thing does on this crazy timeline].  Assuming Mer graduated college at 21 [as I did], then took 5 years off, she could've started med school at 26.  Med school is 4 years, which would put her right at 30 when she started her residency and the show started with them all being interns [first year of residency].  How old that would Mer the character now, I've go no clue because I think the first 3 seasons were one year, but then after Derek died, there was a time jump ... I have NO idea how long it supposedly has been since their first year of residency. 

The first three season was one year, season four and five was just one year. Every season after that was one year each. Than they did the time jump after Derek death.

[jaync]

Quote

Also Minnick - she's the worst and her thing with Arizona is so awful and lazily written.

Word. At this point, I'm hoping she's still supposed to be a "villain" and is just playing Arizona, and she goes out in flames by the end of the season.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Doctors Of Grey's Anatomy Are At War And It's Not Very Civil

Jackson focuses his anger on his mother while Alex and Nathan engage in a heart-to-heart duel.

[cakes1975]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:25 PM, Greysaddict said:

 

Actually, Catherine mentoring April is more in line with their history.  Before she and Jackson got married, April was actually close to Catherine...emailing her and texting her for work advice/mentoring.  She also called Catherine to come do a surgery at GSMH at one point when Richard wouldn't admit they needed her.  I'm sure there are other examples that aren't on the top of my mind.  I'd actually argue that Catherine manipulating/suing April over custody was the out of character storyline for these two.  

Thank You. I'm glad that I am not the only one who remembers Catherine and April being snitch buddies before the Japril romance began.

[betsyboo]

On 3/9/2017 at 11:14 PM, redfish said:

And Alex? DeLuca doesn't owe you squat when he contacted the transplant list. He dropped the charges. You owe him more.

 

I respectfully agree and disagree. Does Alex perhaps owe him more of an apology? Maybe. But as an attending with a clean slate and a supervisor of an intern, Andrew owed it to Alex to tell him. Especially since Alex specifically asked him before the case if they were ok. Andrew's excuse of "They're kids, right?!" might have been ok if he had told Alex that the second he called UNOS, not seconds before surgery. If Andrew has a problem working with Alex, then he needs to address that with Bailey. 

The only intern I care about is Ben. Everyone else can go. and take April and Amelia with you.

[moonorchid]

14 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

I respectfully agree and disagree. Does Alex perhaps owe him more of an apology? Maybe. But as an attending with a clean slate and a supervisor of an intern, Andrew owed it to Alex to tell him. Especially since Alex specifically asked him before the case if they were ok. Andrew's excuse of "They're kids, right?!" might have been ok if he had told Alex that the second he called UNOS, not seconds before surgery. If Andrew has a problem working with Alex, then he needs to address that with Bailey. 

The only intern I care about is Ben. Everyone else can go. and take April and Amelia with you.

I agree with you from a logical standpoint, but for me, knowing that Alex got away with what he did scot free, their whole interaction just rubs me the wrong way.

[bikebrh]

  On 3/9/2017 at 11:03 PM, KaveDweller said:

Yeah, but that doesn't seem to fit with the original timeline. Meredith had taken a few years (5?) before Med school, so that would have put her over 30 when the show started. And more than 5 years had passed by the time Maggie showed up.

Understanding time on this show is pointless though.

It's so weird the way they had her method lead to a little boy dying, and then followed it up with absolutely no reaction from anybody. No one who's questioning her position is bringing this up when arguing against her? Are we supposed to think that since she cried after all is forgiven and excused?

 

I think it works [as well as any thing does on this crazy timeline].  Assuming Mer graduated college at 21 [as I did], then took 5 years off, she could've started med school at 26.  Med school is 4 years, which would put her right at 30 when she started her residency and the show started with them all being interns [first year of residency].  How old that would Mer the character now, I've go no clue because I think the first 3 seasons were one year, but then after Derek died, there was a time jump ... I have NO idea how long it supposedly has been since their first year of residency. 

I don't think she took 5 years off. I think 5 years was the number of years that Ellis suffered from Alzheimer's while Meredith was taking a gap year(then coming back to find Ellis in the throes of Alzheimer's) then her 4 years of med school.

[Deanie87]

12 hours ago, betsyboo said:

I respectfully agree and disagree. Does Alex perhaps owe him more of an apology? Maybe. But as an attending with a clean slate and a supervisor of an intern, Andrew owed it to Alex to tell him. Especially since Alex specifically asked him before the case if they were ok. Andrew's excuse of "They're kids, right?!" might have been ok if he had told Alex that the second he called UNOS, not seconds before surgery. If Andrew has a problem working with Alex, then he needs to address that with Bailey. 

The only intern I care about is Ben. Everyone else can go. and take April and Amelia with you.

Neither Riggs nor Alex came off very well in this episode, but I put a bit more blame on Riggs for putting DeLuca in the position of having to lie/withhold information from Alex, especially given the history.   So out of all the crappy things that were done this episode, I think that was the worst.  For whatever reason, Alex seems to be the go to guy when the show needs one doctor to get completely shown up by another.  He has somehow evolved from an innovator risk taker (ping pong ball maneuver) to the plodding, conservative "better to be safe than sorry" doctor.  Then again, I would probably prefer that to the risk if it were my kid.

And while I agree that the whole beating storyline was completely anti-climactic and poorly done, Alex did plan to take the plea, partly to help Jo and partly because he knew he did it.  I don't blame him for not insisting on going to jail when DeLuca dropped the charges.  But yes, I wish that there had been some kind offer to pay the bills or something more on his behalf.   Either punishment or retribution of some kind.

[taanja]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:45 AM, Inquiry said:

Yeah, they might just be teasing the MerAlex fans, but in the back of my head I feel like they're going to use the "I thought you were just a friend until I saw you with someone else." Either that or Riggs being threatened by their relationship. I doubt Riggs would be as cool as Derek with Meredith randomly jumping in another man's bed. I don't know, I just got that vibe especially since it seems like they're winding down Jo/Alex. 

I would be OK with a Mere and Alex end game. Cuz we all know new doc's not so dead wife is coming back!

[PepSinger]

On 3/13/2017 at 6:26 AM, Sarnia said:

Oh my god, this, so much! Her teaching method lead to the death of a child! The child died because of Minnick. I really can't understand that there is no follow-up on this, nor repercussions for Minnick, and I understand even less that her method could still be considered as "working". A child died, who shouldn't have died. How is that not a problem?

THIS. Say what you will about me waxing poetic about the earlier seasons, but I cannot imagine that this would've been swept under the rug back then like it was here. It is ridiculous! 

[kingshearte]

I don't think there was a single storyline this week where at least one party to it didn't annoy me.

Amelia's return: Oh hooray. The less said about that, the better.

Alex vs. Nathan: Ugh. I realize that everything had to be fully oppositional for this plot as devised, but not only did it make both characters come across as asshats, but it made me wonder about procedures. Folks with actual medical knowledge could maybe answer this, but is there any particular reason why a person can't be put on the donor list even if a treatment decision hasn't been fully made yet? Like, if a transplant is really the ideal option, but you want another option in case one doesn't come through in time, couldn't you put someone on the list with the plan that if a heart doesn't come through within x time, you proceed with plan B? I mean, yes, you'd presumably want to have all the appropriate people's authority to do so, but the idea that it absolutely has to be one or the other right away seemed weird to me.

Turkey-fryer burn guy's family: Ugh. I don't know how I'd react if either my own partner or my sibling's partner accidentally almost got my father killed, but I'd like to think I'd do better than these people. And, to be fair, we're seeing them in the immediate aftermath of the accident. Maybe they'd both behave better if we saw them tomorrow. But that sister? Yikes. Frankly, she seemed like she never really welcomed fiancé at all, and this was just a good excuse to lash out. And her brother? Well... If this is an example of how he allows his family (even if just his sister) to treat his fiancé, then that dude is well rid of him.

Just about everyone else who had more than 2 lines this episode: Ugh.

And yes, Meredith and everyone else needs to lay off the whole "April stole Meredith's job" bullshit. Meredith's suspension does not suspend the requirement that the job get done. Someone had to do it. And it's not like April fought her for it when she came back. April realized that she liked the job and would like more opportunities like that, but was perfectly gracious in handing it back with no fuss or drama. So everyone else can take a damn seat.

[taanja]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:12 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Count me as another person who doesn't get why Riggs is so into Meredith. She's hot and cold constantly and yes that makes for good tv I guess but at some point this chase period should end. In reality no one would deal with this and they've been doing this since like episode 19 of last year! It's not cute or enjoyable tv wise at all. At least not for me. Meredith isn't someone who can get away playing these games either. Her attitude is ridiculously rude to Riggs. I'm now assuming her kids live at the hospital daycare.

Wait! What? Meredith has children??????

I like to fanwank that Mere is fucking awesome in bed. Like muscles inside that most men just dream about and she knows how to use them. Plus--- she has a nice mouth if you get my drift...??

Edited March 16, 2017 by taanja
more thoughts

[Ohwell]

Well, she does have that lisp.....

[proserpina65]

On ‎03‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:45 PM, PepSinger said:

THIS. Say what you will about me waxing poetic about the earlier seasons, but I cannot imagine that this would've been swept under the rug back then like it was here. It is ridiculous! 

There have been so many medical fuckups on this show with few or no repercussions.

On ‎03‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 0:42 PM, kingshearte said:

And yes, Meredith and everyone else needs to lay off the whole "April stole Meredith's job" bullshit. Meredith's suspension does not suspend the requirement that the job get done. Someone had to do it. And it's not like April fought her for it when she came back. April realized that she liked the job and would like more opportunities like that, but was perfectly gracious in handing it back with no fuss or drama. So everyone else can take a damn seat.

Hell, she even got the paperwork caught up so that Meredith wouldn't have to do it.

[Scatterbrained]

Hi All!  I'm late to the game, but here are some random thoughts: (I tried not to replicate what has already been said here.)

In this episode, I started to feel like maybe Catherine doesn't hold Meredith in the highest regard.  If true, is it for business or personal reasons (or both)?  In turn, I wonder if Catherine knew Ellis?  If so, how did she feel about her?  Were her feelings positive or negative?  Were these feelings based on personal or professional reasons? 

How does she feel about Richard's involvement with Ellis then and now with Meredith? Is there any residual jealousy or on her part?  Does she feel that this is a weakness and blind spot for Richard? Or is it simply a case of Meredith being the person that Richard affectionately mentored and April being the person that Catherine affectionately mentored?

I also wonder about Catherine's plans going forward. In this episode we realize that she doesn't think that Jackson is up to the task of being a leader.  I don't necessarily think that she wants to replace Jackson with April, but I wonder if she realizes how hard it is to do his job without a support system and I wonder if her plan is to move Jackson into a different position with April there to assist him and help balance him out. I also wonder, in this situation with Minnick, if her plan was to move her son out of his position and put Richard into it, thereby not replacing Richard, but reassigning him.

This is the first time that we hear about an Avery center in Chicago. Which is the start of me wondering if a spin off for the Avery foundation might actually be being considered since the show (GA) was originally planned to be in Chicago instead of Seattle.

I noticed that Jackson and April finished each other sentences when they were giving an update to the patient's family, showing that they are a good team. I also noticed the poster for A Tale of Two Cities in the background at this time.  I've noticed throughout the season there seem to be little social and political Easter eggs here and there and I think this is one of them. I haven't read the book but I have discussed it with someone who said that there is often debate about the ending over whether a character acted on his own his own accord or was manipulated into his actions which seems to sort of tie into the dialogue that some of you are having here.

I thought the last scene with Catherine and Jackson was really interesting.  It shows that she's very observant and in-tune with her son.   She seems to sense that he is having feelings of disappointment and shame.  This makes more questions go off in my brain about what is he feeling bad about.  Hopefully, in the future we will get more answers about what's going on inside of him.

[StaceyNotStacie]

7 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

Hi All!  I'm late to the game, but here are some random thoughts: (I tried not to replicate what has already been said here.)

In this episode, I started to feel like maybe Catherine doesn't hold Meredith in the highest regard.  If true, is it for business or personal reasons (or both)?  In turn, I wonder if Catherine knew Ellis?  If so, how did she feel about her?  Were her feelings positive or negative?  Were these feelings based on personal or professional reasons? 

How does she feel about Richard's involvement with Ellis then and now with Meredith? Is there any residual jealousy or on her part?  Does she feel that this is a weakness and blind spot for Richard? Or is it simply a case of Meredith being the person that Richard affectionately mentored and April being the person that Catherine affectionately mentored?

I also wonder about Catherine's plans going forward. In this episode we realize that she doesn't think that Jackson is up to the task of being a leader.  I don't necessarily think that she wants to replace Jackson with April, but I wonder if she realizes how hard it is to do his job without a support system and I wonder if her plan is to move Jackson into a different position with April there to assist him and help balance him out. I also wonder, in this situation with Minnick, if her plan was to move her son out of his position and put Richard into it, thereby not replacing Richard, but reassigning him.

This is the first time that we hear about an Avery center in Chicago. Which is the start of me wondering if a spin off for the Avery foundation might actually be being considered since the show (GA) was originally planned to be in Chicago instead of Seattle.

I noticed that Jackson and April finished each other sentences when they were giving an update to the patient's family, showing that they are a good team. I also noticed the poster for A Tale of Two Cities in the background at this time.  I've noticed throughout the season there seem to be little social and political Easter eggs here and there and I think this is one of them. I haven't read the book but I have discussed it with someone who said that there is often debate about the ending over whether a character acted on his own his own accord or was manipulated into his actions which seems to sort of tie into the dialogue that some of you are having here.

I thought the last scene with Catherine and Jackson was really interesting.  It shows that she's very observant and in-tune with her son.   She seems to sense that he is having feelings of disappointment and shame.  This makes more questions go off in my brain about what is he feeling bad about.  Hopefully, in the future we will get more answers about what's going on inside of him.

When Richard was injured during the storm in the basement, he made Meredith his medical POA. There was some conflict over that. 

The Ellis theory is interesting. Jackson's grandfather held her in very high regard and there could be some professional jealousy/competition between Catherine and Ellis. 

[choclatechip45]

On 4/2/2017 at 0:52 AM, Scatterbrained said:

Hi All!  I'm late to the game, but here are some random thoughts: (I tried not to replicate what has already been said here.)

In this episode, I started to feel like maybe Catherine doesn't hold Meredith in the highest regard.  If true, is it for business or personal reasons (or both)?  In turn, I wonder if Catherine knew Ellis?  If so, how did she feel about her?  Were her feelings positive or negative?  Were these feelings based on personal or professional reasons? 

How does she feel about Richard's involvement with Ellis then and now with Meredith? Is there any residual jealousy or on her part?  Does she feel that this is a weakness and blind spot for Richard? Or is it simply a case of Meredith being the person that Richard affectionately mentored and April being the person that Catherine affectionately mentored?

I also wonder about Catherine's plans going forward. In this episode we realize that she doesn't think that Jackson is up to the task of being a leader.  I don't necessarily think that she wants to replace Jackson with April, but I wonder if she realizes how hard it is to do his job without a support system and I wonder if her plan is to move Jackson into a different position with April there to assist him and help balance him out. I also wonder, in this situation with Minnick, if her plan was to move her son out of his position and put Richard into it, thereby not replacing Richard, but reassigning him.

This is the first time that we hear about an Avery center in Chicago. Which is the start of me wondering if a spin off for the Avery foundation might actually be being considered since the show (GA) was originally planned to be in Chicago instead of Seattle.

I noticed that Jackson and April finished each other sentences when they were giving an update to the patient's family, showing that they are a good team. I also noticed the poster for A Tale of Two Cities in the background at this time.  I've noticed throughout the season there seem to be little social and political Easter eggs here and there and I think this is one of them. I haven't read the book but I have discussed it with someone who said that there is often debate about the ending over whether a character acted on his own his own accord or was manipulated into his actions which seems to sort of tie into the dialogue that some of you are having here.

I thought the last scene with Catherine and Jackson was really interesting.  It shows that she's very observant and in-tune with her son.   She seems to sense that he is having feelings of disappointment and shame.  This makes more questions go off in my brain about what is he feeling bad about.  Hopefully, in the future we will get more answers about what's going on inside of him.

Catherine was impressed with Meredith's skills in season 8 until Meredith ran off because Zola needed surgery.

[Scatterbrained]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:38 PM, choclatechip45 said:

Catherine was impressed with Meredith's skills in season 8 until Meredith ran off because Zola needed surgery.

Thank you so much for the clarification.  Now it makes sense!  I remember that episode, but not that part.  I used to have a great memory pre-kids, now it is so fuzzy!

[choclatechip45]

On 4/7/2017 at 7:26 PM, Scatterbrained said:

Thank you so much for the clarification.  Now it makes sense!  I remember that episode, but not that part.  I used to have a great memory pre-kids, now it is so fuzzy!

Anytime!