S34: Troy "Troyzan" Robertson

[Jabu]

Hi.  I'm from One World.  And I regret not calling out Kim in front of the tribe every day.

So he basically regrets not being a douche more often.  Perfect.

[KimberStormer]

Why do I find it so easy to imagine a Troyzan/Zeke/Brad Culpepper/Tony/Tai Alliance of Dickheads?  Maybe I'll build this up in my mind so that no matter what else happens, as long as it's not that, I'll be happy.  Even if, like, Ozzy wins.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Why do I find it so easy to imagine a Troyzan/Zeke/Brad Culpepper/Tony/Tai Alliance of Dickheads?  

This is like my literal nightmare.

I honestly found Troyzan entertaining as hell in One World. I mean he is awful, but it's in a way I find fun to watch and make fun of. But I feel like he will be heinous this season and that it won't be fun at all.

Edited February 10, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[ByaNose]

Troyzan is the oldest contestant for Game Changers. He looks pretty good for 54. I hope he goes far. He seems like a nice guy and he's a great photographer.

[Michel]

4 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I hope he goes far. He seems like a nice guy

I guess you didn't watch One World, then. He's not.

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, Michel said:

I guess you didn't watch One World, then. He's not.

I did watch One World. He had a rilvary with the girls. It was his island and he was just misunderstood. LOL!!! Even, Kim Spradlin is rooting for him via twitter.

[LanceM]

Here's an interview with Troy.

https://parade.com/551936/joshwigler/survivor-game-changers-troyzan-robertson/

So apparently the reason he wasn't selected for Second Chances wasn't because fans did not like him.  Nope, it was the process of voting for 9 other people that was the  problem. See, he is friends with Kate Upton and Chrissy Teagan and they each have millions of followers on twitter who would have all voted for Troyzan to put him over the top but due to the format all these millions of votes went to Andrew Savage too. So poor Troy was screwed. 

Anyway I agree with Hali.

Hali Ford (Worlds Apart): He’s kind of like a grown-up teenager.

[LadyChatts]

I didn't think I'd find anyone more delusional this season than Brad Culpepper.  Congratulations Troyzan!

Quote

Sierra Dawn Thomas (Worlds Apart): The one person I have a pre-game alliance with is Troyzan. Weird, right? I absolutely love him. He’s a very dear friend. Who knows what’s going to happen, it’s a game. But we’ve made some quote-unquote promises to each other, so we will see where we stand. But I love him. He’s amazing.

I heard about her having a pre-game alliance with him, but couldn't find a source.  Now it's confirmed.  This one kind of surprises me.  I'm also surprised Sierra would outright say she had a pre-game alliance with someone.  We know it's a fact in these seasons, but I don't remember too many people (if any) outright saying 'I'm aligned with this person'.

I also loved these:

Quote

 

Zeke Smith (Millennials vs Gen X): Troyzan won’t put his f–king shirt on. I mean, Ozzy wears a shirt, dude. Put your shirt on!

Malcolm Freberg (Philippines, Caramoan): Do I have to call him Troyzan? Anybody who nicknames themselves, I have a bone to pick with.

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by LadyChatts

[ByaNose]

Yeah, Troy is a lot more nutty then I recall. I didn't know he was in such denial about Kim. Jeez!

[fishcakes]

Well, I see Troy is still a giant baby.

This is some good trolling by Josh Wigler though:

Quote

Troyzan went on to win an immunity challenge, memorably bellowing: “This is my island!” Followed by an obscenity or two. An immunity streak did not ensue.

[LadyChatts]

I had to go all the way to the bottom of the page to find his thread.

So....you can beat anyone in the final 3, Troy?  I'll be curious what he'll say about his invisible edit this season.  Probably what the usual invisible folks say (social games don't make for good TV).  He really was Brad's vote, though, and I'm glad he got called out for it.  I think he was really surprised he was getting virtually ignored at the FTC, but kudos to him for acknowledging he was out of contention.  He was a good sport about it.  

Edited May 25, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Nalan]

It says something about him that his thread is only accessed once the season ends.  He really contributed nothing to it but the tragedy that was Cirie's boot.

[vibeology]

And even then, he wasn't really planning on doing anything with that idol at that Tribal until everyone else moved. Sarah knew that she'd use the LA. Tai chose to play his idols to keep himself and Aubry in the game. Troyzan looked at the situation and realized he had to play or else he'd be in big trouble. He really didn't do much at all considering he was there for 39 days.

[Special K]

I kind of feel sorry for people like Troy because their take on their chances in FTC is based on how they feel during the game.  How we feel watching their game is based on how the edit goes, which of course they don't know anything about.  It's possible that each and every Survivor thinks he/she is the hero of the game for as long as they played it.  And then when they watch at home, maybe then they see that they've been left on the cutting room floor. 

I do give him huge props for his humble and grateful attitude when he realized the jury was not interested in him.

ETA:  I still would have preferred he win over Brad, if it had come to that.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Special K

[ByaNose]

Troy was the only person who didn't speak to EW Dalton Ross on SiriusXM. I know he has blocked a lot of writers & bloggers on his twitter account. I guess he didn't like what they had to say about him. His non edit isn't really his fault so I could see how all the criticism would bug him. That said, he knows what reality tv is all about and shouldn't be such a baby. 

[LadyChatts]

The thing is, he is hardly the first (or the last) to get an invisible edit.  Though in his case, maybe it was hard to just be invisible, and be portrayed as being Brad's little puppy following him around everywhere.  I can see where Troy might have taken that harder than some other people.  But Sarah won, and we didn't even see her until the merge.  Here's an interview with Josh Wigler, and the first part of it he does talk about that.  

https://parade.com/574150/joshwigler/survivor-game-changers-troyzan-robertson-exit-interview/

Edited May 25, 2017 by LadyChatts

[ByaNose]

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

The thing is, he is hardly the first (or the last) to get an invisible edit.  Though in his case, maybe it was hard to just be invisible, and be portrayed as being Brad's little puppy following him around everywhere.  I can see where Troy might have taken that harder than some other people.  But Sarah won, and we didn't even see her until the merge.  Here's an interview with Josh Wigler, and the first part of it he does talk about that.  

https://parade.com/574150/joshwigler/survivor-game-changers-troyzan-robertson-exit-interview/

Thanks for the link. I've read a lot of interviews and hadn't seen anything by him. I thought if Brad can have the worst 2 show edit in history and do press so can Troyzan. When he skipped EW this morning I thought he was being a baby. I'm glad he talked with Josh. I'll have to see if he talked with RHAP but I think he blocked them, too.

Just checked and it looks like he spoke with RHAP. I'm going there now. I need my Survivor fixes. LOL!!!

Edited May 25, 2017 by ByaNose

[KimberStormer]

I'll say this, I thought "I can beat any of 'em" was a reasonable thing to say at tribal.  He was basically saying he was happy to go to the end with anybody and so there's no need to fear him coming after you.  A good old-fashioned anyone-but-me; as the lady said, Sandra without the sass. Of course we know that Troyzan couldn't actually beat any of them, much less all of them, but I could easily see Sandra saying the exact same thing with the exact same aim in HvV.

His little speech was very sweet and classy and I think he basically got exactly what he deserved, warm applause and not a single vote; but then I am a notorious fan of the Big Moves.  I would love it if one of the very very many people who decry the Big Moves and pour scorn on people who make them to explain their take on Troyzan's game.  Was he a good player or a bad one?  Was he robbed at FTC?  Why or why not?  What was the difference between him and HvV Sandra?

[MissEwa]

22 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

His little speech was very sweet and classy and I think he basically got exactly what he deserved, warm applause and not a single vote; but then I am a notorious fan of the Big Moves.  I would love it if one of the very very many people who decry the Big Moves and pour scorn on people who make them to explain their take on Troyzan's game.  Was he a good player or a bad one?  Was he robbed at FTC?  Why or why not?  What was the difference between him and HvV Sandra?

I've been thinking about this since you asked it @KimberStormer - I don't hate big moves but I don't like big moves for the sake of big moves, and I don't like the show's focus on them, but I honestly don't know what I think of Troy's game. In his first season, I disliked him a lot. He was an ass. This season? I didn't see enough to really form an opinion on his personality *or* his gameplay. I feel like he played less 'anyone but me' and more that he was in Brad's pocket, and he fared the same way Gervase did being in Tyson's in BvV - made the end, didn't get any votes. 

I do kinda wish we'd seen more of his thought process. Not a lot, because he doesn't thrill me as a person, but enough that I could better answer this question. 

ETA: If he categorises his game as anyone-but-me, that's fine. I also think though, that to win with an ABM strategy, you absolutely need Sandra's sass, and even he will admit he doesn't have that. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by MissEwa

[simplyme]

On 5/25/2017 at 11:55 PM, KimberStormer said:

His little speech was very sweet and classy and I think he basically got exactly what he deserved, warm applause and not a single vote; but then I am a notorious fan of the Big Moves.  I would love it if one of the very very many people who decry the Big Moves and pour scorn on people who make them to explain their take on Troyzan's game.  Was he a good player or a bad one?  Was he robbed at FTC?  Why or why not?  What was the difference between him and HvV Sandra?

I looked for a better place to move this answer, but I didn't notuce a strategy thread, so apologies if this is slightly off-topic for Troy himself.

I don't think there's one right way to play Survivor. Each season is different based on the twists, the cast, the challenges, when the merge occurs, etc. I thought Troy played a fine game in some ways. He made it to F3 after being odd person out on an earlier tribe and was usually in the minority. I think most people liked him quite a bit as a person. He also won one or two individual immunities. Some seasons, with some casts, that would have given him the win. But this cast put more value on strategic gameplay they respected than other casts have. That sank Troy. They also valued the social game, which hurt Brad more than Sarah, who managed to cover most of her social backstabs under gameplay.

Like @MissEwa I don't mind Big Moves. But I've noted that they can put a Big Target on you, so you should be smart about why and when you pull them or they have a tendency to send you home. For example, if your Big Move is taking out one of your own allies and that will leave you untrusted by pretty much everyone and in the minority, I'm not sure if I consider that a Big Move or just an Amazingly Dumb one. For me, in order to win Survivor, you have to get to the end. That usually involves some amount of moderation. 

As for the difference between Troy and HvV Sandra and why one wins and the other gets zero votes, it's a combination of what moves each attempted to make and what people they were sitting next to in their F3. IIRC, Sandra tried several times to change the way others were voting in attempts to take Russell out, but she was unsuccessful. By the end, the jury despised Russell and realized they should have taken her advice. So Sandra was given credit for actions she advocated that the jury wished they had taken. Troyzan, as far as we saw, was fairly passive. His alliances with Sarah and Brad were because they reached out to him. So there were not even attempted actions that he could claim.

Troy's biggest problem, though, is that you can win as the coat-tail rider who everyone likes, but only if you go to F3 with two people that you know most of the jury won't vote for (for whatever reason). Troy went with a dominant strategic force in the game and someone with five immunity wins and neither was despised. Sandra went with Russell H. and Parvati, and the two of them could have walked on water and performed brain surgery on war orphans (pro bono) and not been able to swing another jury vote their way due to either past relationships or things that happened in-game.

Or to put it another way: If you see two oxen heading for the finals and you've got a much better relationship with most of the jury, it's fine to ride them.

[SVNBob]

5 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I feel like he played less 'anyone but me' and more that he was in Brad's pocket,

Exactly.  Troy was riding Brad's coattails.  If anyone was playing an "anyone but me" game of this F3, it was Sarah.

 

2 hours ago, simplyme said:

Like @MissEwa I don't mind Big Moves. But I've noted that they can put a Big Target on you, so you should be smart about why and when you pull them or they have a tendency to send you home. For example, if your Big Move is taking out one of your own allies and that will leave you untrusted by pretty much everyone and in the minority, I'm not sure if I consider that a Big Move or just an Amazingly Dumb one. For me, in order to win Survivor, you have to get to the end. That usually involves some amount of moderation. 

The problem with current Survivor mentality is BMF; Big Move Fever.  The thought that you have to have made "Big Moves" to win.  The perfect poster child for this is Zeke.  But to win Survivor, you need to make the Right Moves; moves that get you to FTC and get you the majority vote.  As pointed out here, Big Moves aren't necessarily Right Moves.  Again, look to Zeke.  His BMF flared up, and he moved too quickly on his alliance with Andrea and Cirie.  It was a Big Move to turn on them, but it tanked his game because he did it too soon, and unsuccessfully.  Sometimes the Right Move is the Small Move, or No Move at all.  For that, look to Sophie.

Bringing this back to Troy, his game looked more like No Moves at all.  Or really, just One Move: Follow Brad's orders.  About the only things he really had on his "resume" (and yes, that is an annoying term) were one II win, which was overshadowed by Brad's 5, and his part as the caboose of the Immunity Train.  But since all 3 of the F3 were part of that as well, he didn't really have much of anything in the "Moves" column.

[KimberStormer]

Thanks for some great discussion! 

I do think, to Troy, it's easy to imagine Brad and Sarah are his own Russell and Parvati.  He's seen first-hand how Brad is blowing up, losing his cool, bullying and belittling Tai and so on.  He knows Sarah has backstabbed everyone on the jury, and he's not imagining  that they're grumpy about it, because a lot of them are!  And it's not like he did nothing -- he won individual immunity too, and found an idol, the hardest idol to get in the whole game, in fact; and he held onto it with steely determination through many hair-raising games of tribal council chicken.  So I think he was quite justified in, if not expecting (because who knows) then at least in hoping, he could do well at that FTC.

3 hours ago, simplyme said:

Or to put it another way: If you see two oxen heading for the finals and you've got a much better relationship with most of the jury, it's fine to ride them.

What's ironic about this, though, is that, as you note, Sandra did not do this and Troy kinda did.  He was wrong about their ox-ness, which is something, but perception is so difficult out there.  You can argue that Sandra correctly called Russell and Parv as oxen, therefore she's smarter/more perceptive than Troy, but she tried to vote Russell out!  I completely agree her attempt to do so won her the hearts of the Heroes on the jury, but what a bizarre set of circumstances for her win to be based on her failing to do something that was not in her best interest because the people whose best interest it actually was in refused to do it.  Even writing that sentence is difficult because it's so convoluted!

It's very hard for me to think of a time when Troyzan could have changed his fate in the game, partly because he was so under-edited.  I feel kind of sorry for him for that edit and for people to be dismissive of him when I think he didn't play a bad game at all.  But I do think, honestly, Big Move Fever is way better than the long era of Moveophobia.  Moveophobia can only ever benefit the people at the center of the majority alliance, the Jeremys, Tom Westmans, Sophies, Kims, whereas Big Move Fever as a mental rubric can conceptually help everyone else.  If everyone is thinking "hey, is now the time for my BIG MOVE?" then sure you'll get some Zeke-esque silliness where there is actually no benefit whatever to making it, but you won't get the Grants and Ricks and suchlike mediocre gruel adding nothing because they think "all I gotta do is sit here and be loyal to the Power Players and everything will be fine."  It might concievably lead to better social game because rather than not bothering to (or being too intimidated by Boston Rob to) talk to the players on the outs you might think "I'm gonna need these guys for my BIG MOVE later, so I'm going to be friendly with them now."

I mean, I agree Big Move Fever is annoying, less organic than great moments of the past like the Widows flipping on Ozzy or Rob C maneuvering down the Amazon, but idk, the methodical Day-One-Five-Person-Alliance-Pagongs-Them-All era was boring and frustrating in many cases because the people who got voted out at F5 or F4 (or, often, who got no votes at FTC) seemed to have no concept of making moves at all, that they could work with people from the opposite camp at F7 and take over the game, or whatever.  I do definitely agree that the Right Move is often the Small Move, and those are often the most beautiful parts of Survivor to me, like the various times this season when nobody was actually flipping but there was a subtle power struggle because the players wanted different members of the losing alliance to go home for their own long-term purposes.  But better Big Moves than No Moves.

Can't include Troy in the Grants and Ricks category though, he probably would have been if the Sierra/Brad contingent had stayed on top the whole time, but in fact he was on the bottom and in danger for most of the time and it's really just impressive he didn't waste his idol when he didn't need it.  Plus he had hilarious reaction faces to delight @peachmangosteen.  Not bad.

Edited May 27, 2017 by KimberStormer
tag her in

[simplyme]

Oh, I definitely think Troyzan is being unfairly critiqued for his game. I think managing to make it to the end after being put in the positions he was says some pretty positive things about his game. But also like I said, each game is different, and this season, with the two people he ended up with and that jury, he wasn't going to win. C'est la vie.

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I mean, I agree Big Move Fever is annoying, less organic than great moments of the past like the Widows flipping on Ozzy or Rob C maneuvering down the Amazon, but idk, the methodical Day-One-Five-Person-Alliance-Pagongs-Them-All era was boring and frustrating in many cases because the people who got voted out at F5 or F4 (or, often, who got no votes at FTC) seemed to have no concept of making moves at all, that they could work with people from the opposite camp at F7 and take over the game, or whatever.

And I will totally agree that watching people make Big Moves (even Amazingly Dumb ones) is better than having to rewatch Redemption Island. I will claw my eyes out. That season made me actually yell at the tv more than any other. Hantz and Coach seasons had a lot of sarcastic comments from me, but that season was like watching person after person slowly walk to the edge of a cliff and jump off.

This is a great discussion. Thanks, Troyzan and fellow Ptv folks!

ETA: If we could hand out an award based on faces, it would be between Troy and Michaela for me. I'd probably give the edge to Troyzan with Michaela as runner-up. Some of Aubry's eye rolls give her a respectable third for me. We could name the award after Eliza.

Edited May 27, 2017 by simplyme

[Nashville]

I'm having trouble thinking of very many BMs prior to F4-F3 which didn't boomerang on their executor(s) within a couple of TCs.  Probably for the very reason once a player does gets a BM on their resume, other players recognize it as well and move to eliminate the competition risk before it gets to FTC.

[NutMeg]

I wish we had seen more of Troy and his enjoying the season. Especially as, having just read the spoiler thread, I learned that he had been known to be in the F3 for a looming time, and that there was talk that there was one person at FT who would be a goat - which is no surprise, there often is one that gets zero or almost zero vote, but TBTB could have made the ending more difficult to guess for spoiler-readers with showing more of him.

[KimberStormer]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

 very many BMs

Let's maybe not use this abbreviation.

[simplyme]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

I'm having trouble thinking of very many BMs prior to F4-F3 which didn't boomerang on their executor(s) within a couple of TCs.  Probably for the very reason once a player does gets a BM on their resume, other players recognize it as well and move to eliminate the competition risk before it gets to FTC.

 

19 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

Let's maybe not use this abbreviation.

Apparently Debbie's BM got her voted out.

[Nashville]

25 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

Let's maybe not use this abbreviation.

Oh hell no.  That's exactly why I picked it; to a significant degree, the traditional and current interpretations of these initials are identical.  :D

[KimberStormer]

Nice attempt to define the terms in your favor, but this Big Moves fan isn't going to use it!

[Lamb18]

Last season or the season before someone's literal BM got him voted out first.

[Nalan]

4 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Last season or the season before someone's literal BM got him voted out first.

When did that happen?

[LadyChatts]

Darnell I think.

[Nalan]

53 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

Darnell I think.

Ah.  I'm pretty sure that that was just the excuse they used, but the real thing was him costing them the first challenge.

[SVNBob]

12 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Last season or the season before someone's literal BM got him voted out first.

And there's also the rumor about Debbie from this season, started by some of Zeke's post game interviews.