S06.E01: Fugitive

[merylinkid]

Renard has Nick RIGHT there when Bonaparte is killed, and they just talk.

Renard then goes and gets the entire police department after him, but makes a special point of sending someone sympathetic out to find him.

Hank & Wu, known associates of Nick, are right in the precinct whispering on their phones and clickety clacking on their computers.  

I gotta think this is a long con by Renard.   I gotta.   But then that would be giving the writers faaaaaar too much credit for having a plan on how this will all tie up.

[Prevailing Wind]

This stage-whispering phone calls and the above mentioned lack of logic when Adalind calls Nick to come over - if WE notice how stupid it is, I wonder how the actors felt, having to perform realistically, knowing what they were doing was bullshit.

I wish someone different would buy the rights to the show and re-set back to, say, Adalind losing her powers and the rest of this shitstorm being "fan fiction" Rosalee found on the internet. Re-set back to the fairy tale stuff (and I frankly don't care if Mama G. is alive or not - it never made any sense for her to be alive) and just start over again doing the stuff we loved.  While they're doing a re-set, re-cast the Juliette & Adalind roles - have the actors switch parts. I don't care if ET & DG are a real-life couple; they have no on-screen chemistry like DG does with CC.

Or just start another whole Wesen show, keeping Monroe & Rosalee and, perhaps, Bud. Let's see the stories from a Wesen viewpoint. Have those Leverage/Librarian guys recommend writers & show runners - they know what they're doing.

[Darklazr]

I finally realized when Renard and Nick became enemies.   1) Nick forgot to tell Renard about BC and Renard was a little jealous that Hank was in the loop.  2) Nick did not tell Renard why he needed time off.   3)  Nick was able to raise Kelly from the start and Renard gave up Diana.

On a serious note.  

I already mentioned my disdain with Juliette's pure soul crap.

I, too, think Franco and the first medical examiner should have been shown a lot more over the last five seasons.  

Bud.  I love Bud and his super excited mannerisms.

The death grip was awesome, but the fact that Juliette and Trubel are part of the story makes my ears bleed.

Rosalee and Monroe for the win!  However, it was just plain stupid for this couple to go back home when they know BC is still around town!

Is Renard running a long con in order to flush out the rest of BC head cheese?  Maybe.  I don't know and the writers clearly have lost their minds with this Renard vs Nick nonsense.

Why is Renard power hungry when he won the Mayoral contest and he clearly was not interested at first?  Yes, the blood on Renard's hands and seeing blood was done in season 4!  I guess the writers decided to use their old season 4 scripts and scratched out a few scenes.

I am really going to miss the wesen of the week and fairytale cases.

4 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

This stage-whispering phone calls and the above mentioned lack of logic when Adalind calls Nick to come over - if WE notice how stupid it is, I wonder how the actors felt, having to perform realistically, knowing what they were doing was bullshit.

I wish someone different would buy the rights to the show and re-set back to, say, Adalind losing her powers and the rest of this shitstorm being "fan fiction" Rosalee found on the internet. Re-set back to the fairy tale stuff (and I frankly don't care if Mama G. is alive or not - it never made any sense for her to be alive) and just start over again doing the stuff we loved.  While they're doing a re-set, re-cast the Juliette & Adalind roles - have the actors switch parts. I don't care if ET & DG are a real-life couple; they have no on-screen chemistry like DG does with CC.

Or just start another whole Wesen show, keeping Monroe & Rosalee and, perhaps, Bud. Let's see the stories from a Wesen viewpoint. Have those Leverage/Librarian guys recommend writers & show runners - they know what they're doing.

I would add no more freaking babies!  It would be perfectly fine if Monroe and Rosalie announced they were having a baby when the last episode airs, but keep the babies out of the day to day storytelling.  

I loved Momma Grimm, Aunt Marie, Roland Porter and just hated that they were all killed off and Truble lived!

[iMonrey]

Quote

So Renard is all evil now? At least Sasha Roiz will have something to do for awhile. Too bad though, I prefer him as morally grey but at least leaning towards not evil. I will be disappointed if he turns out to be the Big Bad, but at least he will compelling, but confusing. Why does he hate Nick now? Why is he evil?

Poor Sasha Roiz has had nothing to do for five seasons but stand around and make phone calls. They have utterly wasted his character so at the very least, making him the main villain in this final season will give him something to do.

As for why he has "turned" on Nick, I just think he's made his choice by turning to the dark side and needs to blame Nick for Bonaparte's death. That's what he told whoever called him on the phone - that Nick killed him. Maybe he thinks it's too late to turn back now and fight for the good guys so he's sticking with Black Claw because they're the ones who helped get him elected Mayor.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Poor Sasha Roiz has had nothing to do for five seasons but stand around and make phone calls. They have utterly wasted his character so at the very least, making him the main villain in this final season will give him something to do.

As for why he has "turned" on Nick, I just think he's made his choice by turning to the dark side and needs to blame Nick for Bonaparte's death. That's what he told whoever called him on the phone - that Nick killed him. Maybe he thinks it's too late to turn back now and fight for the good guys so he's sticking with Black Claw because they're the ones who helped get him elected Mayor.

...and Diana the evil bad seed!

[neuromom]

I keep thinking back to the 3 coins episode. Renard was under the influence of the coins and it was very clear he was "power hungry" . However, the same episode also had a great scene where he was giving a press conference and was almost manic in his desire to protect the innocent people of Portland and go after the bad guys.

That episode , to me, defined Renard. Someone who was morally grey, but LEANED toward "good". And then we saw him take on the Royals, and the Wesen Reich , and I can't remember who else.

so, the fact that he is now full -on eeeevilllll just doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Nick falling for his rapist, and Hank basically forgiving his rapist (and Wu forgiving the woman who poisoned him) just all seem SO out of character from the established characters of the first two seasons. 

Kinda makes me wonder if the past 2 seasons were some sort of alternate universe or something..well, I guess it can't be "alt universe" since we already have spoilers of some sort of "time jump", and I can't see the writers doing BOTH. Well, I guess it WOULD be messy..and I CAN see these writers doing "messy"

I'm still hanging in for the possibility of getting to see prior guests. Holly the Blutbad would be one..but I'd really like to see the Mellifers again and finally get an answer to a question that has been pestering me for half a decade..when she said "they're coming,,they're coming"..who did she mean?

[OtterMommy]

This probably belong more in the everything wrong thread, but I think it played a big part in people's dissatisfaction with this episode, so I'm keeping this thought here.

So, it has been discussed in the past about how true-to-life the non-paranormal elements of this show should be.  I've always argued that what is supposed to be human/normal/non-wesen elements should be as true-to-life as possible and tied to what the "laws" are of the real world--especially in a show that deals with actual laws.  I know some have said that there is a different "world" in Grimm and real-world laws and customs don't apply, even in the non-magical aspects of the show.

I think this episode shows that idea is wrong.  Everything with the police and manhunt had absolutely nothing in common in real procedures in law enforcement--and nearly everyone who has posted here as commented how badly it was done.  When you take something that people understand in "real life" and basically say that it doesn't apply because this is a TV show, it breaks any connection the viewers have with the show.  

Let's say that you are watching a Law and Order episode and someone is found not guilty of murder due to insanity because the victim was a redhead and the accused had a deeply held hatred of redheads and that's what led him/her to murder.  Now, obviously, that's bullshit.  And audiences would never stand for that and, honestly, it would probably be the end of the series.  

But--you say--L&O isn't a paranormal show!  Well, guess what, when Grimm is in the police station and Nick and Hank and Wu are doing their police, Grimm isn't a paranormal show.  And the paranormal element of the show is highlighted *because* half the show is not paranormal.  So, when it comes to things like police procedures, Grimm really does have to stick to reality.

And they didn't in this episode--at it seems like everyone, or at least everyone who posts here, really noticed it and was irritated by it.  I'm far from an expert on law enforcement and I could still tell that was this show was doing, specifically in this episode but generally over and over throughout the run, was a far cry from any sort of reality. There are many things in this series that should piss people off (oh so many....).  The fact that they can't get law enforcement right should not be one of them.

[Darklazr]

3 hours ago, neuromom said:

I keep thinking back to the 3 coins episode. Renard was under the influence of the coins and it was very clear he was "power hungry" . However, the same episode also had a great scene where he was giving a press conference and was almost manic in his desire to protect the innocent people of Portland and go after the bad guys.

That episode , to me, defined Renard. Someone who was morally grey, but LEANED toward "good". And then we saw him take on the Royals, and the Wesen Reich , and I can't remember who else.

so, the fact that he is now full -on eeeevilllll just doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Nick falling for his rapist, and Hank basically forgiving his rapist (and Wu forgiving the woman who poisoned him) just all seem SO out of character from the established characters of the first two seasons. 

Kinda makes me wonder if the past 2 seasons were some sort of alternate universe or something..well, I guess it can't be "alt universe" since we already have spoilers of some sort of "time jump", and I can't see the writers doing BOTH. Well, I guess it WOULD be messy..and I CAN see these writers doing "messy"

I'm still hanging in for the possibility of getting to see prior guests. Holly the Blutbad would be one..but I'd really like to see the Mellifers again and finally get an answer to a question that has been pestering me for half a decade..when she said "they're coming,,they're coming"..who did she mean?

Remember when Renard told Nick his family was being threatened (aka Diana) was being held at Conrad's home?  Remember Renard ONLY said yes to becoming Mayor AFTER JulietteEve smoked the hat and he saw Diana?  Maybe I am wrong,,,lol.  However, I think the two BC instances is what pushed Renard into joining their team.  I don't think Renard would have joined BC if Diana had been rescued from his father, if Momma Kelly or Meisner had turned the child over to the parents.  

Renard was trying to keep all of the wesen crime on the downlow, but clearly the show has forgotten what the wrote from s1 - s5!

[ottilie]

Yes - I think you are right that there will be a conflict with Nick showing up at Adalind's in front of sensitive daughter Diana - it couldn't have just been a throwaway line to let us remember where Adalind is located. Maybe they will split the family and Renard will take Diana. Couldn't nick someone put a drop of his blood in her food and neutralize her powers? There is a spell for that.

 I like giving Renard something to do. In seasons 2 and 3, it seemed like he was trying to be a benevolent prince from the Habsburg (?) lineage of Austria while his cousins were worse. If you think about the Meisner ghost thing, unless they just suddenly stop the messages from the underworld that he sees, Renard will probably be motivated to do something to make the haunting stop, so maybe he could switch sides again. Or he could go mad. I thought it was more Bonaparte's responsibility for killing him but whatever. Also, Juliette seemed like a victim too because she was only turned into a witch due to Nick's problems and her trying to be a supportive girlfriend.

[jhlipton]

Just now, OtterMommy said:

I've always argued that what is supposed to be human/normal/non-wesen elements should be as true-to-life as possible and tied to what the "laws" are of the real world--especially in a show that deals with actual laws.

I give a good pass to shows that are complete law-and-order shows but aren't true to life (Hello, Brooklyn 9-9!)  The police stuff was, for me, far less of a bother than the whole "pure soul" or Nickalind crap.

[OtterMommy]

Just now, jhlipton said:

I give a good pass to shows that are complete law-and-order shows but aren't true to life (Hello, Brooklyn 9-9!)  The police stuff was, for me, far less of a bother than the whole "pure soul" or Nickalind crap.

I agree with you on this...I have a friend who is a doctor who had to quit watching Grey's Anatomy because they were so "off" with the medicine, but had absolutely no problem with House because the whole show was untrue to life.

As I said, the only way I could even watch this episode is if I skipped the Nadalind scene (and many thanks to all of you who posted about it so that I would know to skip it!) and the pure soul thing just bothers me in so many ways (but apparently not in the same ways it is bothering everyone else, but whatever).  

I just keep wondering about this show...I can only see 3 possibilities.

1 - The creative team just does not care at all.

2 - The creative team is out to piss people off.

3 - The creative team honestly thinks this shit doesn't stink.

And I really don't know which one it is....

[Darklazr]

32 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I agree with you on this...I have a friend who is a doctor who had to quit watching Grey's Anatomy because they were so "off" with the medicine, but had absolutely no problem with House because the whole show was untrue to life.

As I said, the only way I could even watch this episode is if I skipped the Nadalind scene (and many thanks to all of you who posted about it so that I would know to skip it!) and the pure soul thing just bothers me in so many ways (but apparently not in the same ways it is bothering everyone else, but whatever).  

I just keep wondering about this show...I can only see 3 possibilities.

1 - The creative team just does not care at all.

2 - The creative team is out to piss people off.

3 - The creative team honestly thinks this shit doesn't stink.

And I really don't know which one it is....

I vote for all 3 choices!  My goodness.  The writer's had a popular Friday show and they somehow were either watching the crap over at OUAT, SH and whatever SyFy stuff was going on at the time and added it to Grimm.  The wesen of the week and fairytale stories with a smidgen of Royal intrigue, keys, and coins as more than enough for at least ten years of solid storytelling.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Darklazr

[catrox14]

I have a theory that maybe juliette wasnt actually the good one in the death grip. That maybe she was using him to not go to where she was supposed to go. Like maybe he was the good one trying to not let her take him. That would be a lot more interesting than her being an angel or some other crap

ETA: Wouldnt phone lines in police stations be subject to monitoring?

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I have a theory that maybe juliette wasnt actually the good one in the death grip. That maybe she was using him to not go to where she was supposed to go. Like maybe he was the good one trying to not let her take him. That would be a lot more interesting than her being an angel or some other crap

Woah.  What an awesome idea, so of course the show will use the cheap saga of pure as snow Juliette!  

[ottilie]

But... I just looked at the preview for next week - they let Rosalee and Monroe watch Diana, and already are having a Renard vs. Nick=Renard showdown, which suggest that they're going to settle the season's primary conflict in the second episode. I sort of like that they're doing another transfiguration potion thing with Sasha Roiz because he is a good enough actor to carry it off well.  The episode where the captain's body was taken over by Jack the Ripper was one of the best.

Edited January 8, 2017 by ottilie

[neuromom]

43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

ETA: Wouldnt phone lines in police stations be subject to monitoring?

Good question. I work at a dept in CA. All dispatch lines are recorded. And all computers in the building are monitored. However, regular "office phones" in the patrol room or in the supervisors' offices, etc, are NOT recorded. Howver, there would be a record of incoming and outgoing phone numbers. 

[OtterMommy]

33 minutes ago, ottilie said:

But... I just looked at the preview for next week - they let Rosalee and Monroe watch Diana, and already are having a Renard vs. Nick=Renard showdown, which suggest that they're going to settle the season's primary conflict in the second episode. I sort of like that they're doing another transfiguration potion thing with Sasha Roiz because he is a good enough actor to carry it off well.

Responding in spoilers...

Edited January 8, 2017 by OtterMommy

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Renard has Nick RIGHT there when Bonaparte is killed, and they just talk.

It was pretty weak, and I'm trying to think of reasons for it besides all the melodrama that can ensue.  Maybe Renard doesn't think he can actually kill Nick.  Maybe he really is doing a long con, plus knows that Nick looks to be pretty well-protected, having come back to life, or is willing to bet that most of the men on the force wouldn't kill him but would bring him in alive.  Because if he really wanted him dead, he could have waited and ambushed him when he left, at the very least.

[possibilities]

I think Renard is afraid of Nick. He thinks he needs the entire police department to deal with Nick, because Nick is apparently immortal with respect to bullet wounds and the entirety of Black Claw. He wants to frame Nick for Bonaparte's killing to get himself off the hook, both to get Black Claw to go after Nick, and also so he himself doesn't get blamed by BC for the stabbing of Bonaparte. He may have figured out that Diana is behind it, or he might even think Nick made him do it. He's freaked out because he doesn't feel in control of himself or the situation. So if he at least makes a show of sending the entire police dept after Nick, he can feel somewhat protected. Scapegoat someone to give yourself time to regroup. I think he cares less if the PD objects than he does about getting BC off his back. It doesn't have to make sense; the man is crazy, much like the showrunners.

The purity of Juliette business doesn't bother me that much, because they did the same thing when they had Renard take that purification potion, and when they suddenly made Adalind a quivering damsel who only loves her children and her hunk of Grimm. I mean, it's BS, but it's not NEW BS for this show. The stick (I love how even the show just calls it "the magic stick" like they don't even care how stupid the whole business is, and aren't trying to hide it) is just another form of "magic that has unintended consequences" as per most things on this show.

Rosalee and Monroe thinking it was all over and going back to their house annoyed me more, because  c'mon!

Edited January 9, 2017 by possibilities

[TheGreenWave]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Nick is apparently immortal with respect to bullet wounds

Serious eye roll from me and Mr. GreenWave when Renard looks at Nick's beaten up face and 2000 dead bodies in his apartment, identifies that the holes in his shirt are bullet holes, and then says, "hey, so looks like you got shot but all your wounds are healed.  So, anyway, I'm going to take off now."  WHAT?!?!?!

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

Serious eye roll from me and Mr. GreenWave when Renard looks at Nick's beaten up face and 2000 dead bodies in his apartment, identifies that the holes in his shirt are bullet holes, and then says, "hey, so looks like you got shot but all your wounds are healed.  So, anyway, I'm going to take off now."  WHAT?!?!?!

Ya'll know Renard and Nick were in their "manpain" feelings at the time and they both needed some alone time!

[TheGreenWave]

14 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

they both needed some alone time

Ha ha!  Seriously.  I was waiting for someone to thoughtfully stir some tea while contemplating what. just. happened.

 

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Rosalee and Monroe thinking it was all over and going back to their house annoyed me more, because  c'mon

Truth.  After Renard's calm walk-away, this was the most ridiculous scene (well, maybe not "most" because there were just so many....).  Who wouldn't go to a hotel under an assumed name??  Surely not every BC member was taken out in Nick's apartment, right??

[withanaich]

Quote

I'd really like to see the Mellifers again and finally get an answer to a question that has been pestering me for half a decade..when she said "they're coming,,they're coming"..who did she mean?

I remember that too (I wonder if the writers do?) and can only assume that she was referring to the bad plots. 

My husband stopped watching around the time I (temporarily) rage-quit last season, which I think was when Nick fell in "love" with his rapist and started playing house. He tuned back in for the final season and I had to respond to all of his "WTF?!" questions with stuff like "... long story, I'll tell you during the commercials," and "yeah, I know, Adalind used to be a cool villain, I don't know why she's doing nothing but sighing and wringing her hands between diaper changes now," and "no, I don't know what Renard's deal is, no one does," and "oh, yeah, Wu's like a werewolf now? I guess I forgot about that crazy shit." It's like this show is being co-written by 45 simple-ass pre-teens raised on nothing but the shittiest soaps. And they're not even reaching some sort of consensus, they're just throwing everything at the wall regardless of whether or not it sticks (spoiler alert: it doesn't).

As for why I'm still watching this hot mess: I like the actors, and I remember when the show used to be good, when it was something I really looked forward to watching and actually ENJOYED. (And sometimes you can still see glimpses of that show, like when Hank is being awesomely direct, or when Bud shows up.) And since it'll all be over soon, I guess I'm sticking it out until the bitter end. But that doesn't mean I won't be rolling my eyes all the way there. 

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, withanaich said:

I remember that too (I wonder if the writers do?) and can only assume that she was referring to the bad plots. 

My husband stopped watching around the time I (temporarily) rage-quit last season, which I think was when Nick fell in "love" with his rapist and started playing house. He tuned back in for the final season and I had to respond to all of his "WTF?!" questions with stuff like "... long story, I'll tell you during the commercials," and "yeah, I know, Adalind used to be a cool villain, I don't know why she's doing nothing but sighing and wringing her hands between diaper changes now," and "no, I don't know what Renard's deal is, no one does," and "oh, yeah, Wu's like a werewolf now? I guess I forgot about that crazy shit." It's like this show is being co-written by 45 simple-ass pre-teens raised on nothing but the shittiest soaps. And they're not even reaching some sort of consensus, they're just throwing everything at the wall regardless of whether or not it sticks (spoiler alert: it doesn't).

As for why I'm still watching this hot mess: I like the actors, and I remember when the show used to be good, when it was something I really looked forward to watching and actually ENJOYED. (And sometimes you can still see glimpses of that show, like when Hank is being awesomely direct, or when Bud shows up.) And since it'll all be over soon, I guess I'm sticking it out until the bitter end. But that doesn't mean I won't be rolling my eyes all the way there. 

Sorry, but I snorted water through my nose reading the highlighted line.

I also rage-quit last season and, well, here I am.  I really don't know if I can finish this out but, like you, I love the cast (except for Diana....  I hate saying that, again, about a child actress, but it is pretty clear she was hired on appearance alone) but the story telling is so vacuous that I'm not sure my brain cells can take much more.   I actually wasn't bothered by not being able to follow things because I realized that most of the other posters here DID watch season 5 and they were having trouble following what was going on.

I just hope that, at some point in the not too distant future, one the more, um, candid actors on this show let us know what is really going on here.  I doubt it will happen--doing something like this would hurt them professionally--but I would totally be there for it if it did.

[iMonrey]

Quote

3 - The creative team honestly thinks this shit doesn't stink.

Sadly, I think it's this, and my question about this was answered upthread. It appears the writers are responding to a small but very vocal group of Twitter users who think Nick + Adalind is the bomb. As far as the police procedures being realistic, that part doesn't really bother me (although compiled with everything else wrong with the show it's fair game for criticism). It's really more about the characters behaving in all sorts of unrealistic ways, and everyone's attitude towards Adalind and "Eve" (and I can't even type "Eve" without rolling my eyes).

I'd forgotten a lot of what happened last season so I had to go look it up, but Nick attacked Renard at the end of last season and was arrested, then the Scoobies busted him out of jail, so in a way Renard has to be against Nick because he's legally a fugitive.

[iMonrey]

Doube post.

Edited January 9, 2017 by iMonrey

[proserpina65]

I've never analyzed this show that deeply, and the things I enjoyed about it (Renard's hotness, Monroe & Rosalee's adorableness, Hank & Wu, Bud) are all still there for me.  I still don't like Adalind and would be glad to see her go.  Juliette never bothered me, and if there's a way to redeem her actions, I'm fine with that.  Yeah, I miss the fairy-tale aspects of the first couple of seasons, but I accept that it's morphed into a different show over the last couple ones.  So basically, I enjoyed this episode and will be back for the next one.

That said, if a single hair on Bud's head is harmed, Renard is dead to me, hot as holy hell or not.

[withanaich]

Quote

I love the cast (except for Diana....  I hate saying that, again, about a child actress, but it is pretty clear she was hired on appearance alone) but the story telling is so vacuous that I'm not sure my brain cells can take much more. 

When I said I loved the cast, I assumed it was understood that I was NOT including that child, lol. And I don't feel bad about saying that. Maybe the actress is a perfectly lovely little girl, but the character is a shining symbol of everything that has gone wrong with this show, aside from the fact that she can't act at all (which can't be blamed on her age, because decent child actors do exist), and I cringe every moment she's onscreen.

Quote

I'd forgotten a lot of what happened last season so I had to go look it up, but Nick attacked Renard at the end of last season and was arrested, then the Scoobies busted him out of jail, so in a way Renard has to be against Nick because he's legally a fugitive.

That can't be it though, because Renard has done plenty of underhanded, not-quite-legal (or downright ILLEGAL) stuff, or looked the other way when someone (whether that was Nick or the bad guys) broke the law. I can almost accept Renard turning against Nick as being in-character for him, because he's been shown to be power-hungry in the past. But they haven't explained WHY Renard needs to turn against Nick to maintain that power. They haven't explained why he can't work with Nick (even if it's behind the scenes) to destroy Black Claw for good, so he can have real power rather than being a puppet. And they're not showing us any kind of reasoning on Renard's part! They never show anymore, they just tell. And what they want to tell us depends on which way the wind blows. Oh, Renard is morally ambiguous (because we haven't decided if he's bad or good yet), wait now he's totally on Nick's side because we said so, oh wait now he's evil and he wants Nick dead because we said so. It's just more character assassination, a la Juliette's a hexenbiest and she's burning down the trailer and helping kill Nick's mother because something something magic, being a hexenbiest makes you crazy and evil (until we decide it doesn't). Or Adalind is an amoral villain, and we haven't really decided if that's because something something hexenbiest magic or because her mother's awful, oh wait now she's complete dead weight and has no agency because she's in WUV. 

There's character development, which generally happens over time and is SHOWN and understood to be, you know, developing. And then there's whatever childish action figure smash-up bullshit these writers are doing.

[OtterMommy]

7 minutes ago, withanaich said:

When I said I loved the cast, I assumed it was understood that I was NOT including that child, lol. And I don't feel bad about saying that. Maybe the actress is a perfectly lovely little girl, but the character is a shining symbol of everything that has gone wrong with this show, aside from the fact that she can't act at all (which can't be blamed on her age, because decent child actors do exist), and I cringe every moment she's onscreen.

I've seen someone excuse her performance elsewhere saying that she's a "local" actress and we can't expect a great performance from a non-LA or NYC child actress.  Which, like so much about this show, is bullshit.

There is a very good Youth acting academy in Portland (I think Hannah R. Lloyd might be a part of it, but I'm not sure) and they do a series of plays, to which my kids and I have a subscription.  Folks, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of extremely talented young actors in Portland (and some are even blonde, blue-eyed, and about 10 years old!).  Every time we go to a show, I'm wowed at the talent these kids have....and this actress is the best Grimm can come up with?  Again, bullshit.  

Of course, when you hire someone based completely on appearance (because that can be the only excuse for this), that's what you get.  If Diana were going to be one of those TV kids who is never around, I could just look the other way..,but it appears we are going to get quite a bit of her in the next 12 episodes and I am not looking forward to that.

Edited January 9, 2017 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

I really don't see any difference between Hannah and ET's acting on this show.  Sorry, not sorry!

[Darklazr]

4 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

Ha ha!  Seriously.  I was waiting for someone to thoughtfully stir some tea while contemplating what. just. happened.

 

Truth.  After Renard's calm walk-away, this was the most ridiculous scene (well, maybe not "most" because there were just so many....).  Who wouldn't go to a hotel under an assumed name??  Surely not every BC member was taken out in Nick's apartment, right??

LMAO.  Renard and Nick acted like they were discussing Charmin vs Angel Soft!  

[ShadowFacts]

54 minutes ago, withanaich said:

There's character development, which generally happens over time and is SHOWN and understood to be, you know, developing. And then there's whatever childish action figure smash-up bullshit these writers are doing.

Because we are now essentially in comic book land.  I haven't read a comic book in a long time, but they probably even do development better.

13 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

LMAO.  Renard and Nick acted like they were discussing Charmin vs Angel Soft!  

So ridiculous.  One of them asks "how did that happen?", the other one answers "I don't know."  Then the other one asks, and the answer is "I'm not sure."  Great writing.

[tpel]

On 1/7/2017 at 6:59 PM, Darklazr said:

It all doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because if Renard wants Nick dead because he's generally the person who knows too much about his connections to wesen/Black Claw, then he has to want Hank, Wu, Monroe, Rosalee, Bud, Trubel, Eve, the whole lot of them dead.  Hell, even Adalind.  They're all just about equally as much "enemies" to him as Nick is. 

I don't think Renard views Nick as an enemy so much as a convenient scapegoat. Renard and Nick were alone with Bonaparte when Bonaparte was killed. Renard has to make a show of going after Nick in order to bolster his own image as a loyal Black Claw member. Actually, the whole "shoot to kill" thing might be a gift --intentional or otherwise -- from Renard to Nick. Renard knows that Nick, for whatever reason, is impervious to bullets. So, if a cop were to shoot him, he would likely be alright, and could perhaps use the occasion to fake his own death. 

I thought this episode was a hot mess, but one thing I liked was the opening exchange between Nick and Renard. They are both confused and talk to each other like normal people, without any silly posturing.

[OtterMommy]

On 1/7/2017 at 0:44 PM, SweetTooth said:

Do I think a groundswell can help save a character or kill them off? Absolutely. But not always. I also don't think story lines are near as guided by fans as people think they are, unless it really does show in the ratings numbers. And even then, the showrunners are sometimes so egotistical, they'll find ways to shove the unpopular character down the throats of the fans, as they watch the numbers dwindle, just to prove a point. In some cases, those same people are fired.

I think the show wanted to capitalize on the chemistry between these actors, as well as the controversy, and nothing anybody says will veer them off-course. They will probably have Adalind die in Nick's arms or something dramatic like that. And when he's trying to pick up the pieces of his shattered life, there's Pure Soul Juliette, back and fresh as a daisy, to help him.

You have a lot of interesting points here, and I don't disagree with you (well, except for maybe the Nick/Adalind chemistry--I never saw it, at least not in a romantic sense, but that's neither here nor there).  But I think there is one more aspect to it all.

There has never been any secret that Grimm was a show that catered to fans.  The actors have said it and the writers have said it.  Way back before season 1 even started, there were articles about how Grimm was using social media to rally fans and get their input.  So, *in this case* I do think the tweeters out there played a role in the crap that we have before us.

But, here's the thing.  The majority of people who are going to tweet about shows, or who are going to comment on official FB posts, are the people who are usually motivated by, how should I put this, an enthusiastic fandom.  Yeah, there will be some (like me) who will take time out of their day to shoot of a tweet to the writers and network voicing my displeasure, but I'm not going to be going any further than that.  Those on Twitter and FB who are so in lurrrrve with "Nadalind" are pretty, um, rabid...and they are very *atypical* of the viewing audience.

Now, if you look at forums like this one (and others), people who post here have a different motivation (and this applies generally, not just specifically to Grimm).  It is almost heuristic--we want to discuss what is going on, what's working, what isn't working, where are the problems, where are the successes.  I don't think any of us, on this board at least, *want* this show to fail, although we are frustrated with its impending and, at this point, inevitable failure.

Here is the interesting thing, forum posters tend to be critical of Nadalind almost across the board, although there is some variance between different forums.  Obviously, forum posters aren't exactly typical either--but I do think that they, well, a better judge of what is going on and are probably closer to what the audience at large is feeling.  If shows really wanted to know what was being said, Twitter and Facebook are not the places to go (again, that applies to pretty much all shows).

[tennisgurl]

You know, I was thinking about where this show went wrong, and I went back to the start, and I was sure it had something to do with the attempts at building a mythology, and than it hit me...what the hell has ever been the mythology? Even back in the day, when it was about the royals and the resistance and the Wessen council and the Grimms and all that shit, none of THAT was even explained well! Who were the royals anyway? Were the Wessen of some kind? It didn't seem like they were, so who or what were they? Magic humans? And what royal tree were they from anyway? Were they related to actual royal families in Europe that we know, or from some other family humans dont know about? What is their connection to Wessens? Who do they even rule anyway? Do they have dominion over anyone or anything at all, or are they just rich people who hire shady people to do shady things? Who are the resistance? Who or what are they resisting? What are their goals? What the the royals goals? Just to stay rich and powerful? So what does that mean? And how does the Wessen council fit into all this? And the Grimms? Who and what are they descended from? They tried to add in a bunch of this complicated Wessen political stuff as they went on, but they never really explained the stuff they started out with in the first place! And, if they ever did, or if it was explained in expanded material, it was never explained in the actual show! And pretty soon, it was all a convoluted mess that they never seemed to have escaped!

Oh, and Nicks romances have always been lame. Looking back at season one, I actually got nostalgic for original Nick/Juliette. They were kind of boring, but they seemed like a real, likable couple. It wasn't until they were turned into a melodramatic drama mess where Nick had to act dumb and Juliette had to became evil for no reason that they lost me. And N/A is just gross at worst, stupid and lame at best. I just cannot get over Adalind running around her romance novel mansion barefoot with her flowing nightgown jumping into Hero Nicks arms, as the perfect mom/eternal damsel in distress who has no bite whatsoever. Remember when she was a kind of cool villain? Those were good times. 

[merylinkid]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

and I went back to the start, and I was sure it had something to do with the attempts at building a mythology, and than it hit me...what the hell has ever been the mythology?

The problem goes even further back than that.   We brought this up in Season 1, it should have been the hugest red flag that ever flagged.   Juliette was originally going to be a baker.   The writers changed her profession to vet because Tulloch had a dog.   Yep.   that's the entire thought process that went into it.   No reason for why she should be a vet over a baker or even to develop a back story for her.   She was Nick's girlfriend because the script said so.  She was a vet because they said so. Hank had more of a back story with his 4 ex wives than we ever got on Juliette.

 

Now, Renard is against Nick because they said so.   Adalind is all forgiven and Mommy of the year, because they said so.   Juliette is cured by the stick and has a 'pure" soul because they decided that was the thing to do this week.

[OtterMommy]

30 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

You know, I was thinking about where this show went wrong, and I went back to the start, and I was sure it had something to do with the attempts at building a mythology, and than it hit me...what the hell has ever been the mythology? Even back in the day, when it was about the royals and the resistance and the Wessen council and the Grimms and all that shit, none of THAT was even explained well! Who were the royals anyway? Were the Wessen of some kind? It didn't seem like they were, so who or what were they? Magic humans? And what royal tree were they from anyway? Were they related to actual royal families in Europe that we know, or from some other family humans dont know about? What is their connection to Wessens? Who do they even rule anyway? Do they have dominion over anyone or anything at all, or are they just rich people who hire shady people to do shady things? Who are the resistance? Who or what are they resisting? What are their goals? What the the royals goals? Just to stay rich and powerful? So what does that mean? And how does the Wessen council fit into all this? And the Grimms? Who and what are they descended from? They tried to add in a bunch of this complicated Wessen political stuff as they went on, but they never really explained the stuff they started out with in the first place! And, if they ever did, or if it was explained in expanded material, it was never explained in the actual show! And pretty soon, it was all a convoluted mess that they never seemed to have escaped!

Oh, and Nicks romances have always been lame. Looking back at season one, I actually got nostalgic for original Nick/Juliette. They were kind of boring, but they seemed like a real, likable couple. It wasn't until they were turned into a melodramatic drama mess where Nick had to act dumb and Juliette had to became evil for no reason that they lost me. And N/A is just gross at worst, stupid and lame at best. I just cannot get over Adalind running around her romance novel mansion barefoot with her flowing nightgown jumping into Hero Nicks arms, as the perfect mom/eternal damsel in distress who has no bite whatsoever. Remember when she was a kind of cool villain? Those were good times. 

 

13 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

The problem goes even further back than that.   We brought this up in Season 1, it should have been the hugest red flag that ever flagged.   Juliette was originally going to be a baker.   The writers changed her profession to vet because Tulloch had a dog.   Yep.   that's the entire thought process that went into it.   No reason for why she should be a vet over a baker or even to develop a back story for her.   She was Nick's girlfriend because the script said so.  She was a vet because they said so. Hank had more of a back story with his 4 ex wives than we ever got on Juliette.

 

I wrote a huge rant on all this and then realized it was outside the scope of this episode, so I moved it over to the Everything Wrong thread.

[seacliffsal]

I so loved this show when it first started, but have stuck with it through thick and thin which I will continue to do through this last season.  I feel like the writers are trying to wrap up various story lines while establishing 'sides' leading to an epic showdown.  It would please me if both Juliette and Adaline were killed during the final showdown which would allow Nick and Kelly to go off on adventures with Monroe, Rosalee, Hank, and Wu.  Franco would become the new precinct captain, and Bud would become mayor...  Hey, it makes as much sense as the current plot lines.

I will enjoy this show for what it was and what it is during its last season.  I may mourn a bit though for what this show could have been...

[hincandenza]

On 1/6/2017 at 7:26 PM, babs1226 said:

I am so happy that Grimm is finally back!  I loved the episode and can't wait for the next one.  Sad to see that so many came here to trash it.

You know, I'm glad you're enjoying it, and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise!  Honestly, I agree with every poster here... but I'm still watching, although it's not so much appointment television as it is "Eh, nothing else is catching my eye, but I see Hulu has the new episode ready".  

In my many years of watching TV, I've hate-watched plenty of shows, where the final seasons were a constant struggle simply out of completionism; shows like "Dexter" or "Weeds" (maybe it's a Showtime thing?) I was outright loathing.  There are also shows I've given up on, such as "Once Upon a Time", not because I hated them, but just had gotten tired of the constant retcon and in particular the bizarre morality (loathsomely evil people can be "redeemed" and still do evil things, while good people are always prevented from even survival-level violence because that's bad, and their souls are eternally tarnished), and the plots bored me.

Grimm, oddly enough, would be guilty of all of these things, except... well, it doesn't really take itself seriously, so I don't either.  Shows like Dexter or Weeds want to seem like they are Art, they are Serious, they are Important... and fail miserably.  It's the Uncanny Valley of "art": if you strive to make some deep Oscar-bait film, and miss, you'll invoke more hatred in almost but not quite reaching the mark than if you are dumb stoner comedy that doesn't pretend to be anything else.  I can easily watch dumb/bad shows if they catch me in the right mood- hell, before I grew too old for it, I won't admit how many seasons of Trailer Park Boys I watched as they came out- and aren't clearly trying to convince me that if I don't like it, I'm a dullard who doesn't "get" their profound stories and symbolism.

Nah... Grimm has become a dumb show, and sloppy as hell in its continuity, and the acting for, uh, certain individuals is uncomfortably bad (beyond laughable, you start to feel bad that certain actors are not noticeably improving).  But the good parts are still fun: Monroe and Rosalee are always welcome on my TV, the occasional tongue in cheek humor is fun, DG and the supporting cast are mostly enjoyable, and Portland continues to be pretty.

So I watch, not loving it, but not hating it like I have with other shows.  And I'm glad it's ending, and I know it won't have some great wrap-up or answer all sorts of questions or even end in a way that makes sense.  But I still enjoyed it as a casual ride over the past few years.

 

On 1/8/2017 at 10:37 AM, OtterMommy said:

This probably belong more in the everything wrong thread, but I think it played a big part in people's dissatisfaction with this episode, so I'm keeping this thought here.

So, it has been discussed in the past about how true-to-life the non-paranormal elements of this show should be.  I've always argued that what is supposed to be human/normal/non-wesen elements should be as true-to-life as possible and tied to what the "laws" are of the real world--especially in a show that deals with actual laws.  I know some have said that there is a different "world" in Grimm and real-world laws and customs don't apply, even in the non-magical aspects of the show.

I think this episode shows that idea is wrong.  Everything with the police and manhunt had absolutely nothing in common in real procedures in law enforcement--and nearly everyone who has posted here as commented how badly it was done.  When you take something that people understand in "real life" and basically say that it doesn't apply because this is a TV show, it breaks any connection the viewers have with the show.  

Let's say that you are watching a Law and Order episode and someone is found not guilty of murder due to insanity because the victim was a redhead and the accused had a deeply held hatred of redheads and that's what led him/her to murder.  Now, obviously, that's bullshit.  And audiences would never stand for that and, honestly, it would probably be the end of the series.  

But--you say--L&O isn't a paranormal show!  Well, guess what, when Grimm is in the police station and Nick and Hank and Wu are doing their police, Grimm isn't a paranormal show.  And the paranormal element of the show is highlighted *because* half the show is not paranormal.  So, when it comes to things like police procedures, Grimm really does have to stick to reality.

And they didn't in this episode--at it seems like everyone, or at least everyone who posts here, really noticed it and was irritated by it.  I'm far from an expert on law enforcement and I could still tell that was this show was doing, specifically in this episode but generally over and over throughout the run, was a far cry from any sort of reality. There are many things in this series that should piss people off (oh so many....).  The fact that they can't get law enforcement right should not be one of them.

I wanted to trim this before quoting, but I liked every single thing you wrote too much to cut it up, so I'll just try to add my own thoughts succinctly:

I do miss the first season(s), when the police procedural was notably rock-solid for a supposedly paranormal show.  People acted and talked like people, police work was methodical, boring and deliberate, and it made those Thomas Kincaide style episodes- that showed off the natural beauty of Portland with the color saturation turned up to 11- really fun and different.  

But you're absolutely right: every mis-step in the plotline, or the behavior of people, has the effect of detracting from the supernatural elements.  We've been so far gone from the episode of the week with real police work- instead of Grimms and others hiding yet another ludicrously high body count Wesen incident- that it's hard to remember when the Wesen world seemed exciting and new and dangerous.  That won't change in the few remaining episodes, but this episode did showcase more of that sloppy "This is not how any of this works!" writing that has marked the show's downturn from "quirky but fun show" to "continuity trainwreck that's really only fun if you stop caring and maybe get a little high".

Edited January 10, 2017 by hincandenza
Minor typos and diction changes

[Darklazr]

4 hours ago, merylinkid said:

The problem goes even further back than that.   We brought this up in Season 1, it should have been the hugest red flag that ever flagged.   Juliette was originally going to be a baker.   The writers changed her profession to vet because Tulloch had a dog.   Yep.   that's the entire thought process that went into it.   No reason for why she should be a vet over a baker or even to develop a back story for her.   She was Nick's girlfriend because the script said so.  She was a vet because they said so. Hank had more of a back story with his 4 ex wives than we ever got on Juliette.

 

Now, Renard is against Nick because they said so.   Adalind is all forgiven and Mommy of the year, because they said so.   Juliette is cured by the stick and has a 'pure" soul because they decided that was the thing to do this week.

It would have been nice if the vet actually had a PET! Sheesh.  Juliette the baker could have at least be shown in the kitchen making baked goods.

[rubyred]

Ah, my people. After reading through the thread I just wanted to throw in my two cents about Nick & Adalind: NO. For me Adalind is equally as irredeemable as Eve/Juliette. And for the show to now be presenting Adalind as this uber-mommy just steams my clams. Adalind planned to SELL Diana. All along. She only changed her mind - very late in her pregnancy - due to the Redeeming Magicks of Childbirth...or was it that she realized Frau Blucher was going to double-cross her? (Sorry can't remember the character's name, the German woman not Shohrah A, the Evil Gypsy). 

So both of Nick's love interests have sucked in many and various ways, it hardly matters to me anymore which one he ends up with. I try not to think about the Fire Daemon, with whom he actually had intriguing chemistry. His only options are Eve and Adalind, yadda, yadda, yadda, blee, blah, bloo. 

Looking back it seems like every season I was in anticipation of what the show could be, and just never was. The world building was always crap (I think production thought it was too onerous, as evidenced by the eventual torching of the trailer). They never made good use of James Frain (James Frain!!), and as for poor Alexis Denisof, the less said the better.

What better symbol for how bereft of creative thought the show has become that its chief magical object is a...stick. It's a stick, man. There's no calling it a wand, or a Spear of Destiny, nothing. It's a stick.

I will watch the last season because it's there, I like most of the cast, and it's familiar, but I've given up trying to make sense of it because I don't think production has cared to since season 2 and why should I care if the creators don't?

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, rubyred said:

What better symbol for how bereft of creative thought the show has become that its chief magical object is a...stick. It's a stick, man. There's no calling it a wand, or a Spear of Destiny, nothing. It's a stick.

It is also a pretty blatant rip-off from another show (The Almighty Johnsons), and not handled nearly as well.  On that show, the magic stick (which had a name and an origin) bestowed, among other things, the power of magical pole dancing--which is beyond silly, but also far more interesting than whatever it does on Grimm.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, rubyred said:

Ah, my people. After reading through the thread I just wanted to throw in my two cents about Nick & Adalind: NO. For me Adalind is equally as irredeemable as Eve/Juliette. And for the show to now be presenting Adalind as this uber-mommy just steams my clams. Adalind planned to SELL Diana. All along. She only changed her mind - very late in her pregnancy - due to the Redeeming Magicks of Childbirth...or was it that she realized Frau Blucher was going to double-cross her? (Sorry can't remember the character's name, the German woman not Shohrah A, the Evil Gypsy). 

So both of Nick's love interests have sucked in many and various ways, it hardly matters to me anymore which one he ends up with. I try not to think about the Fire Daemon, with whom he actually had intriguing chemistry. His only options are Eve and Adalind, yadda, yadda, yadda, blee, blah, bloo. 

Looking back it seems like every season I was in anticipation of what the show could be, and just never was. The world building was always crap (I think production thought it was too onerous, as evidenced by the eventual torching of the trailer). They never made good use of James Frain (James Frain!!), and as for poor Alexis Denisof, the less said the better.

What better symbol for how bereft of creative thought the show has become that its chief magical object is a...stick. It's a stick, man. There's no calling it a wand, or a Spear of Destiny, nothing. It's a stick.

I will watch the last season because it's there, I like most of the cast, and it's familiar, but I've given up trying to make sense of it because I don't think production has cared to since season 2 and why should I care if the creators don't?

The best thing, IMO, was for Diana to have died before Momma Grimm left town.  Adalind would forever be haunted with loving her baby and being responsible for her death.  

Nick really had amazing chemistry with the fire chick, but she would have set his ass on fire sooner or later!

Adalind and Juliette are neck and neck with their BSC antics and I hope Nick chooses HIMSELF and Kelly Jr.

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

It is also a pretty blatant rip-off from another show (The Almighty Johnsons), and not handled nearly as well.  On that show, the magic stick (which had a name and an origin) bestowed, among other things, the power of magical pole dancing--which is beyond silly, but also far more interesting than whatever it does on Grimm.

Lawd.  I am glad Grimm did not ripoff pole dancing wesens in heat as they smoked the hat and had sex with random objects!

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

Lawd.  I am glad Grimm did not ripoff pole dancing wesens in heat as they smoked the hat and had sex with random objects!

Don't worry, I'm not suggesting that Grimm needs magical pole dancing.  But, here's the point, The Almighty Johnsons, while definitely guilty of some retconning here and there and a few trips perilously close the edge of the rails, always knew what sort of show it was (the sort of show where magical pole dancing is a totally acceptable thing).  THAT is something that Grimm never did.  Is it a show about fairy tales come to life?  Is it some sort of bedroom farce?  Is it a dark battle of good an evil?  Who knows....the show runners sure as hell don't.

[hincandenza]

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

It is also a pretty blatant rip-off from another show (The Almighty Johnsons), and not handled nearly as well.  On that show, the magic stick (which had a name and an origin) bestowed, among other things, the power of magical pole dancing--which is beyond silly, but also far more interesting than whatever it does on Grimm.

Oh cool, so I'm not the only person to see "The Almighty Johnsons" and it wasn't just hallucinated in some fever dream of mine?  That is really good to know!

Actually, joking aside, I rather enjoyed that show in spite of the goofy mythos and questionable plotlines/motivations and it demonstrates what I was saying earlier about a show being tolerable if it doesn't take itself too seriously.  It was a weird, quirky, low-budget show but had smoking hot New Zealanders and some bawdy comedy. I binged watched three seasons in like a week and a half when it was on Netflix. :)

[OtterMommy]

8 minutes ago, hincandenza said:

Oh cool, so I'm not the only person to see "The Almighty Johnsons" and it wasn't just hallucinated in some fever dream of mine?  That is really good to know!

Actually, joking aside, I rather enjoyed that show in spite of the goofy mythos and questionable plotlines/motivations and it demonstrates what I was saying earlier about a show being tolerable if it doesn't take itself too seriously.  It was a weird, quirky, low-budget show but had smoking hot New Zealanders and some bawdy comedy. I binged watched three seasons in like a week and a half when it was on Netflix. :)

Yeah, it's a quirky strange, entertaining show--not flawless, but still heads above Grimm.  And the magic stick is far from the only thing that Grimm seems to have borrowed from that show.  (And, by the way, it is still on Netflix...)

Edited January 10, 2017 by OtterMommy

[Prevailing Wind]

About Diana's "acting" - isn't she really 2 or 3 years old, despite her appearance? Perhaps the actress is attempting to display that. But then, what the hell do I know? I never had kids. What do 3 year olds act like?

[withanaich]

You know, I was thinking about where this show went wrong, and I went back to the start, and I was sure it had something to do with the attempts at building a mythology, and than it hit me...what the hell has ever been the mythology? Even back in the day, when it was about the royals and the resistance and the Wessen council and the Grimms and all that shit, none of THAT was even explained well!

I think that's the root of the problem, right there: the writers don't know what they're doing. They have a lot of good ideas, but they don't know what to do with them. Ideas are not plots. If you don't know what to do with an idea, you put it down and walk the hell away until you do. These writers just go full steam ahead until they end up with ... what we have here. And then they have the nerve to pretend that this was what they had planned, and that they knew all along what they were going to do with the royals, keys, etc. I think that's what pisses me off the most. This could have been a really good show, from beginning to end. There are a lot of good elements here, still. But it went off the rails somewhere along the way. And instead of these final episodes being the satisfying conclusion we've been promised (and waiting for), it's just a frustrating, sad, woulda-coulda-shoulda mess. 

Quote

The problem goes even further back than that.   We brought this up in Season 1, it should have been the hugest red flag that ever flagged.   Juliette was originally going to be a baker.   The writers changed her profession to vet because Tulloch had a dog.   Yep.   that's the entire thought process that went into it.

Holy shit. And here my silly ass was thinking it was because Juliette was originally supposed to be the science-y character who could use her knowledge of creatures (mundane though they were) to figure out how to take down certain Wesen, but then when Rosalee came in, they had no idea what to do with Juliette anymore. But no. It's not a kinda-smart decision made by writers who could SEE they were perhaps painting themselves into a corner. It's more bullshit. I should've known.

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Prevailing Wind said:

About Diana's "acting" - isn't she really 2 or 3 years old, despite her appearance? Perhaps the actress is attempting to display that. But then, what the hell do I know? I never had kids. What do 3 year olds act like?

Not like that.  I love kids, and 2-3 is one of my favorite ages, but it is a crazy age of complete impulsivity.  For Diana to be 2-3 years old, she would:

1 - Have far less developed speech

2 - Experience frustration at almost every turn

3 - Would have wild mood swings 

4- Have no sense of planning.  For example, Adalind couldn't say to her, kill the guy who is hurting Nick, and she'd just go "Okay, mommy" and then do her thing.  First of all, she'd ask about 128,394 questions and then she wouldn't be able to put together a way to do it.  At best, she could sort of "use her powers broadly" and, best case scenario, something would stick.

Honestly, having her act like a 2-3 year old might actually work better....

[ShadowFacts]

Diana looks like she's 10-12.  To me, she talks and acts like a 6 or 7 year-old.  I don't know what they're going for.  A pre-teen with special powers would probably be acting a little weird no matter what, but not like a little kid.