S02.E01: Happy F*cking New Year

[jhlipton]

Finally saw it, and I have a ton of comments!

On 12/23/2016 at 4:21 PM, possibilities said:

Watching this, I realized I don't remember all the details from season 1.

I rewatched the last ep to remind myself of who was where and doing what.

 

On 12/23/2016 at 7:00 PM, Kanner said:

I am over the friend masturbating to Lito and Hernando.

If they're cool with it, so am I.  They may like an audience, especially one so appreciative!

On 12/24/2016 at 8:54 AM, Enero said:

Speaking of Angelica, it was creepy as hell when her spirit (or whatever that was) was standing behind the choir during the Christmas concert at the church. Very eerie. I don't think they intended for it to come off that way but it did.

I think it must have been intended as creepy.

On 12/24/2016 at 9:44 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I think my favorite scene was when Kala was yelling at her husband for telling telling/asking her mother if she was still a virgin and it cut with Lito coming home to the Paparazzi.  I thought that was a very well done scene and it cut in well with all the others.

I liked that the graffiti changed so each of the Sensates could be seen as outcasts: f***t, freak, virgin, criminal, etc. 

 

On 12/24/2016 at 11:05 AM, justmythoughts said:

Hernando describing their love as art was so nice and emotional.

OMG -- that scene was so beautiful.  He took something so hateful and turned into the most beautiful thing ever.  I am as straight as one can get, but this ranks with Lito saying "I dropped to my knees and took him in my mouth like holy communion".

On 12/27/2016 at 11:28 AM, Sakura12 said:

As for the orgy, I liked the first one because it was sensual and artsy. This one just seemed like they wanted to put in another orgy. Other that being kind of unnecessary.

Orgies, especially with beautiful people like this, are never unnecessary!

On 12/27/2016 at 5:55 PM, Ronin Jackson said:

The official story about why Aml Ameen left was creative differences with Lana Wachowski. Given that Capheus was more involved in the massive orgy scene in this special than the previous one and was kissing a guy, it would hardly be surprising if his discomfort in doing that scene was the reason for the split. That is of course total speculation, and I have no idea what the real story is.

There's one thing being told "You'll be in a couple of same-sex scenes" and the reality of it.  Ameen wasn't in the orgy in episode 6 -- he may have seen it and balked at what exactly they were asking.

On 1/4/2017 at 2:35 AM, Danny Franks said:

It took me a while to warm to Wolfgang, because the eurotrash gangster stuff did feel very clichéd. But I like his loyalty to Felix and, as Chaos Theory pointed out, the pairing of him and Kala provides a lot of contrast to both their worlds. However, that talk of Berlin being equally and neatly divided into four gangster 'kingdoms' felt very silly.

I took it as a tribute to The Third Man (although that was Vienna).

[shrewd.buddha]

While I like the show for its theme of "there is no normal", it continues to be over-the-top and very heavy-handed with just about everything. Many of the interconnecting stories and scenes  come off as interesting and well done but there are plenty of clunky moments, too. The persecution of our heroes by "the man" (judgmental society, big government, bad corporations, thug-ish gangs, drug cartels) is a button that keeps getting pushed over and over. 

It feels as if the Wachowskis are really excited about exploring the concept of interconnected minds but really don't have a story to tell where that concept pushes the plot forward in a satisfying way. Riley/Will are in a desperate life/death situation - Sun is in jail - so why are the others  seemingly going on about their lives as if there is no means of helping out 'in the real world'?  If this is some type of metaphor about messy real-life families versus pick-and-choose virtual families that "totally get you" then it sort of works because virtual friends aren't very interested when things veer off the path of common interests.

 And the linked mind logic doesn't always work : Kala should not have seen Wolfgang in place of her husband in bed - Wolfgang should have been in Kala's head and be the one straddling Kala's husband. The snowball fight also doesn't work - how is Wolfgang getting hit with a snowball? I get why it works visually for the different actors to be standing next to one another during the shared-mind moments but there would be no reason for them to be talking to some invisible person standing next to them. 

Bottom line : I enjoy the sci-fi concept and the non-prudish,boundary pushing queer perspective . But the concept is stretched too thin and the plot is just wondering around as if trying to decide on a direction. Many of the  emotional moments have basically been repeated several times. It would only take a few more episodes for the frustrating aspects to start outweighing the enjoyable ones.

Edited January 9, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[wayne67]

I'm sorry but having sex in the toilets is gross. Why would they sit down on the toilet floor after a weird sens8 orgy? 

I found it hilarious when Kala walked in on Wolfgang and their argument during the sexy times. 

I really hope they do something a little more proactive about the Whispers problem soon. 

[NoWillToResist]

On 12/23/2016 at 10:51 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I'm still a bit hesitant on Kala/Wolfgang, but I'm surprisingly all on board with Riley/Will. I think they're a sweet couple, and didn't realize that they'd get together during those four months. I think my main issue is that I'm not sure of Kala's motivations. She seems very into Wolfgang and not into her husband, but when he tries to break things off, she refuses to let it happen, even though she knows it doesn't have much chance of working out. I think I need more insight into her as a character.

 

On 12/27/2016 at 5:35 PM, I-Kare said:

I'd rather see a Wolfgang/Sun pairing than Wolfgang/Kala, but then I'm rarely into the ships shows wants you to be into.

Finally got through S1 and the special after having this in my Netflix list for months. God, I'm hooked. I was partway through S1 when I found out that there would be an S2 and I was alternately thrilled and worried. :)  I hope this isn't the kind of show which will kill off one of the Sensates. The loss of any of them would be very upsetting.

I found myself very surprised that, despite the numerous cliches (that others have pointed out), I still love the hell out of this show. Gotta credit all the actors for making me so invested in the characters. I very much appreciate that not all the relationships are romantic; I ADORE the friendships and support that have developed (Lito/Wolfgang, Lito/Nomi, Sun/Capheus, Sun/Wolfgang etc.)

Wolfgang and Sun would be a hoot together. Both kind of want to just be left the hell alone from the bullshit of the world but will cut a bitch if they have to. :D

That said, I blame the chemistry between the actors for me liking the Wolfgang/Kala thing. I was initially so frustrated with her for her waffling back on forth on Rajan, but after much reflection, I think I get it. Rajan is a nice, decent man who loves and respects her. From what we've seen of her world (and the comments of her friends/coworkers), that's a rarity. While I don't think she really loves him yet, I can understand her choosing him anyway. As far as spousal prospects go, I can't figure she'll find a better one. I mean, sure she feels a pull towards Wolfgang but what would her plan be? Quit her job, ditch her friends and family, and travel to Berlin to shack up with a criminal surrounded by violence? That's a terrible plan, IMO. :) I am very interested to see how the show handles this pairing. Will she just be the 'angel on his shoulder', encouraging him to get out of the criminal life and join Felix in quiet, respectable "retirement" from the game, or will the show put them together?

Love the devotion between Nomi and Amanita. Amanita just rolls with all the punches. Nothing fazes that woman, my God. Nomi is so lucky to have her.

Riley and Will were sweet in S1 but I was very unhappy to see his situation in the Christmas special. Keeping him high and/or unconscious to protect them all is just such a horrible fate. It's not a life at all.

I too prefer the old Capheus but I don't DISLIKE the new one.

Lito and Hernando own my soul though. I fucking love those two. Big, buff macho Lito turns into a giggly dorky marshmallow around his sexy professor boyfriend Hernando and I for one am eating that shit up with a spoon. The actor does such a good job of conveying how utterly smitten Lito is with him. And Hernando just has so much class and integrity; he's a wonderful balance to Lito's dramatic nature. I had a MAJOR issue with Daniella taking pictures of them having sex without their consent but if they can forgive her, who am I to stay angry at her for it? On another show, the scene with Lito's mother probably would have made me roll my eyes, but damn if I didn't tear up. Also, "baby penguin" as her term of endearment for him? All the points to Mama Rodriguez. :)

I don't know how I'm going to wait until May for more of these characters. Pretty sure I'll be rewatching the whole thing again just prior to May...

[Chaos Theory]

I think Wolfgang/Kala make an interesting pairing in that they come from polar opposite worlds.  Yes it is a trope (and damn you all for making me use the word "trope") but it is one that is often fun to watch.  Wolfgang never knew much except the streets and violence while Kala grew up in wealth and luxury.  Suddenly they are both thrust into a world where they need each other.  I don't particularly ship them but I do find them humorous when they are together.

[Holmbo]

I watched the episode a while back but didn't come around to check out the board until now.

My feelings about this episode is the same as about season 1: Lito's story line is still the most interesting, the overall conspiracy feels kinda unnecessary. I'm with the people who feel like Lito and co. should go to the US and meet up with Nomi. It would give Hernando and Amanita some more characters to interact with.

I paused during the slur scene so I would have time to see what different words they all got.

Spoiler

faggot, virgin, freak, slut, pig, nigger, nazi, bitch

Wolfgang had nazi, which IMO does not fit with the rest of it. I feel like there should be some better option. In the first season we see him harassed for being from east Germany, could they do something with that? Or perhaps just class.

On 2017-01-04 at 8:35 AM, Danny Franks said:

I also find it interesting that he's the only criminal of the bunch (well, maybe Nomi's hacking has broken a few laws), but there's no judgement whatsoever from the other Sensates. Will, the cop, has no qualms about helping Wolfgang, nor does Lito or anyone else. Only Kala is upset by what he does, and that's more down to her mix of desire and empathy for him, and her utter bemusement at the violence.

I guess that's just part of the Sensate bond, though. Just like none of them blink at Nomi being transgender or Lito being gay, when the cultures they have grown up in may not be accepting of that.

I just did a rewatch and noticed that the only ones that seem to judge each other are Wolfgang and Kala. He has this whole interrogation of her being religious and she is upset by his actions. I wish I was more interested in Kala's story. I do feel for her about having this guy who seems perfect for her and she going along with it because it is just so good on paper. When watching season 1 I thought Rajan seemed sketchy because I couldn't believe he didn't see Kala's clear discomfort. But now in this episode I believed him when he explained that when he wants something he just doesn't see the hinders to it. I totally sympathies with Kala for wanting it to work between them even though she's not in love with him. But I don't care about her feelings for Wolfgang, it seems that all they have is sexual attraction and he is not a very interesting character.

[OoogleEyes]

Rewatching 

Holy cow, this is beautifully filmed 

[myril]

On 25/03/2017 at 11:23 PM, Holmbo said:

I paused during the slur scene so I would have time to see what different words they all got.

  Hide contents

faggot, virgin, freak, slut, pig, nigger, nazi, bitch

Wolfgang had nazi, which IMO does not fit with the rest of it. I feel like there should be some better option. In the first season we see him harassed for being from east Germany, could they do something with that? Or perhaps just class.

1

Agree, it was the one slur that made little sense in this list. If Wolfgang were a German soldier or police officer that could have made a bit of sense maybe but otherwise he barely ever would have been called that considering what we know of his biography. Unless maybe by some Russian immigrants like maybe his cousins if Wolfgang were bullied by them as typical blonde German pretty boy or so. Otherwise , Nazi is used if as slur more to attack people seen as rigidly enforcing their views and certain behaviours on others, or for people seemingly favoring the surveillance kind of order politics, law and order types, In German it is often enough used in combination with the slur "pig" as"Nazischwein" (aka "Nazi pig). Particular in the context the other slurs have to be seen in this one made little sense for Wolfgang. Maybe something like Mafiosi, communist, Stasischwein (Stasi pig), or IM Gangster (for coming from East Germany, IM stands for informant, people who were giving the Stasi information, betraying co-workers, friends, family to the Stasi, and Gangster to reference to the crime family) but unfortunately that would have been something hard to understand for anyone outside of Germany.

[CaptainE]

So how does the n word fit in?

[Holmbo]

Yes it is a bit difficult to get words that would fit for all of them while still having them be widely understood in such a culturally diverse show. I feel like Capheus too would have had another word. Kenya has many different ethnicities and there is much tension between them, and I'm sure many hateful slurs to go with it. We see him being threatened at a young age because of his fathers origin, though I'm not sure if that was just a conflict between two villages or part of something bigger. 

But Wolfgang's is the one that fit the least.

By the way I was trying to find some derogatory term for American to compare it to Wolfgang but I couldn't find any. Not any good ones at least. Maybe Duke Nukem :D But that's too long.

[Chaos Theory]

Of course there are native slurs but there are also universal ones.  I know there are slurs that only apply in a particular country.  I am pretty sure in Ireland there are slurs Catholics have for Protestants but using them loses something unless you understand their meanings.  However there are some slurs that are just universal.  You can't even use the uhhhhh "n" word without feeling like a racist.  Calling a German a Nazi must smart.  So on and so on. 

[jhlipton]

On 5/12/2017 at 2:44 PM, Holmbo said:

By the way I was trying to find some derogatory term for American to compare it to Wolfgang but I couldn't find any. Not any good ones at least. Maybe Duke Nukem :D But that's too long.

"Gringo" comes to mind.  I'm sure the French have a word for Americans, too!

[rubinia]

On 5/9/2017 at 8:58 PM, CaptainE said:

So how does the n word fit in?

I'm guessing that would refer to Capheus, though I don't know how widely used that word would be within Africa.

Who was the slut? Riley?

[jhlipton]

On 5/25/2017 at 1:06 PM, rubinia said:

I'm guessing that would refer to Capheus, though I don't know how widely used that word would be within Africa.

Who was the slut? Riley?

"Slut" usually means "woman who sleeps with someone else but not with MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!" so possibly Riley, or Nomi.  How dare Nomi be sexually active and not put out for a any guy who likes her???

[Holmbo]

On 2017-05-25 at 7:06 PM, rubinia said:

I'm guessing that would refer to Capheus, though I don't know how widely used that word would be within Africa.

Who was the slut? Riley?

Yes Riley got slut.

[Anela]

I've just watched this, and I kept ending up in tears. I'm a sucker for really strong friendships like theirs + the family scenes, like the one with Lito (?). I lost my mother last year, have been missing her terribly, and that just killed me. 

I'm not into the orgy scenes, although that one last season, made me laugh. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I didn't know that there was a new Capheus so I was wondering about why the first scene showed his face in shadow. There's nothing wrong with the new guy except that he isn't the original Capheus.

Loved everyone celebrating their birthday together by having an international dance party. Heh, and of course that was followed up by a birthday orgy. I also liked the Christmas montage. I find it interesting that music is what brings the eight of them together (the orchestra, birthday dancing, the Christmas choir).

Felix faking out Wolfgang. I love their friendship. I also love that Sun's prison friends keep finding ways to check on her and bring her little treats. She has been very stoic about it but it's very sweet to see how happy she is whenever they remember her.

I also love all of the growing friendships between the cluster members. At the beginning of S1, we had a lot of the same pairings (Kala/Wolfgang, Will/Riley) so I like that we are seeing the non-romantic pairings more often. Even when they're just small moments, I really enjoy seeing Wolfgang/Lito, Sun/Kala, etc.

On 12/24/2016 at 8:05 AM, justmythoughts said:

Angelica on the top of the Santas at the church was quite creepy!

FYI - the Santa choir scene was at San Francisco City Hall, not a church, but yes, it was creepy to see Angelica standing at the top of the stairs. Although now that I think about it, every time she shows up it's creepy!

On 1/2/2017 at 5:48 AM, Danny Franks said:

I love Nomi and Amanita's relationship, and that they have such a loyal support network, but they really need to get out of the country. How about a trip to Mexico, to meet Lito and friends, in season two?

While I totally understand the impulse to get the hell out of dodge, I think they would have just as hard a time, if not harder, if they left San Francisco. Here they have an established network of friends who can help them out, whether it's providing laptops and equipment, places to live/hide, etc. and they KNOW that they can trust these people not to rat them out. If they go somewhere else, they lose that. They'll be completely on their own and anyone they encounter is potentially working for BPO. And on top of that, we know that BPO has facilities all over the world so there's really no safe place for them to go.

[Chaos Theory]

When it comes to descriptive words for each of the characters I think there are a few widely used universal ones that work.  Maybe the N word isn't widely used in Africa but it is still understood.  I'm not really thinking too hard about it.  It's one of those scenes meant to be fealt.  And it worked for me that way.

[justmythoughts]

17 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

FYI - the Santa choir scene was at San Francisco City Hall, not a church, but yes, it was creepy to see Angelica standing at the top of the stairs. Although now that I think about it, every time she shows up it's creepy!

 

Thanks, @ElectricBoogaloo

I am not from the US nor live there, so I cherish the info. And yeah, from this first episode till the end of this season Angelica has creeped the hell out of me.

[possibilities]

I also find Angelica creepy every single time she appears. Are we supposed to like her or see her another way than creepy? She literally makes me skin crawl.

[Chaos Theory]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I also find Angelica creepy every single time she appears. Are we supposed to like her or see her another way than creepy? She literally makes me skin crawl.

I think Angelica is supposed to be an enigma.    I don't exactly find her creepy.  More sad.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 8/7/2017 at 1:00 AM, justmythoughts said:

Thanks, @ElectricBoogaloo

I am not from the US nor live there, so I cherish the info. And yeah, from this first episode till the end of this season Angelica has creeped the hell out of me.

Glad I was able to provide some useful info (even if it's months later!). San Francisco City Hall is a beautiful building so I recognized it immediately! They have done a nice job of using recognizable places in San Francisco - the Palace of Fine Arts (Neets gets drugs with Nomi) , the Women's Building in the Mission (where Nomi and Neets hide in the secret room - there aren't actually apartments there), Dolores Park (shown in the flashback where one of Neets' friends makes an anti-trans comment to Nomi), the Castro (where the chase scene takes place), Clarion Alley, the Japanese Tea Garden, the Spreckels Temple of Music (which looks very similar to the Spreckels Organ Pavilion at Balboa Park in San Diego because both were paid for by the same family), City Lights Bookstore, Billy Goat Hill (Nomi's birthday picnic), and the California Academy of Sciences (Nomi, Neets, and her mom talk to a woman in S2.E2). If you do a google image search for any of these places, you will probably recognize them from the show very easily because most of these locations are very distinctive looking.

Heh, I don't think that Angelica's white nightgown looking dress helps matters. That's like creepy ghost attire 101.