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S01.E10: Don't Say It


AmandaPanda

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11 hours ago, Nanrad said:

but not only did Rachel cheat, she blamed Mike for her cheating and didn't take any accountability of the hurt she caused him. When you apply the chase philosophy to Rachel: once she got married and didn't get the attention she wanted, she cheated and left her husband for the other man; got engaged to the other man and only "liked" him; she broke up with the other man and went back to her ex after an intense moment at a dinner he crashed; after they slept together, she doesn't appear hesitant about taking another chance, but rather not interested because she isn't vested in giving their relationship another go.

The bold and italic statement is a reason why I will never like Rachel. 

Al's "new girl" analogy didn't really work for me in the context of Mike and the Cubs. Mike actually didn't want to go, he was resigned to go. So hearing the "she makes you laugh and feel young" was super on the nose about Ginny but IMO irrelevant to Mike and his Cubs situation.

Blip was an actual mess this episode. I didn't realize it whilst watching it the first time, but wow his feelings being hurt made him really horrible. He snapped at Mike during a game and really did question Mike's authority in front of everyone. Then before that he seems really self centered in his interactions with Evelyn. It makes me wonder what kind of conversations he and Evelyn had before they got married about how their living situation would work. He assumes she'll want to stay home and raise the children, which is fine, but he's not reading her very well that she wants something to stimulate her business mind too.

Noah. I really like him because he makes Ginny happy. But I admit I cackled when she said "he can come see me practice in Arizona". She really has so much on her plate to be thinking of traipsing the world without a thought. I doubt we'll see him come next season. (wishful thinking?) 

Ginny and Amelia. Sigh. I love that this show isn't afraid to show Ginny be immature and sometimes too head strong for her own good, but Amelia and her secrets get to me. She treats Ginny like a child by trying to control everything. I agree with those up thread who said Evelyn should have approached Ginny about Will. Amelia and Ginny were already on a tight rope concerning Will and that confrontation was a long time coming. I am beyond glad that Ginny was so strong when faced with Will's stealing. That situation happens so often in real life, and the fact that Ginny could turn him away but still love him is beautiful.

Finally, they sad and "draggy" Have No Fear at the end absolutely destroyed me. In contrast to the pilot that was so uplifting when Ginny finally found her rhythm, hearing it in conjunction with Ginny being injured and getting an MRI killed my heart. 

Evelyn killed me in that scene with Ginny at the beginning. "Use more words" hahaha. I don't think Ginny and Mike are over romantically. They have serious obstacles ahead of them, but I think those obstacles just make for good drama. 

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Ginny falling on her shield while preserving her no-hitter through the 8th inning was a perfect ending for the show.  Like Juice on Sons of Anarchy, she went out good.   I hope this wasn't the end, though.

If Evelyn is all that, she should never have entrusted Amelia to handle Will.  You wanna be Miss Biz?  Be Miss Biz!  Take charge.  If you don't have it in you, stay out of biz.

Ginny made the classic mistake of thinking just because some loner had unreal intelligence and knowledge to handle being a lone wolf does not mean she has the goods.  She manifestly does not!  She certainly has demonstrated courage and guts to get on a major league mound.  No question.  But her critical thinking skills?  Significantly underdeveloped as she was sheltered and driven by an obsessive dad.  

The Cubs line was absolutely a nod to those guys.  I very much enjoyed how the actors played it with a wink.  

One thing not mentioned yet...Al would have had a reliever ready to go.  I've seen it several times as a pitcher was over his typical limit, but was pursuing a no-no.  It is not considered bad luck.  But then, we would not have had the draaaaama of Oscar and his boss reacting to Ginny coming out to pitch the 8th.  Ugh.  

I sincerely hope Kylie has done enough to gain major notice and that she is given another excellent opportunity in TV.

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On 12/8/2016 at 8:55 PM, SimoneS said:

Ginny needs a real sports agent like Scott Boras who has years of experience in MLB, not Amelia who needs to grow thicker skin and learn some boundaries.

This, so much. I wasn't feeling Amelia's speech at the end, because I thought - well, now Ginny can hire an agent who knows a little something about sports.

On 12/9/2016 at 8:22 PM, possibilities said:

I'm relieved to see Amelia go, and I hope she stays away. I hated her "you'll regret it" speech-- does she think Ginny can't find another agent? Seriously? She infantilizes Ginny and always has, plus she's terrible on the sports angle, which is hardly a small detail.

You said it better. :)

On 12/9/2016 at 8:22 PM, possibilities said:

There is also a huge component of my dislike of her that comes from my aversion to the way Ali Larter clenches her jaw all the time.... I find her incredibly annoying even when she's not actually doing anything particularly objectionable in the moment.

Thank you. Now I don't feel so bad about my irrational dislike of any character Ali Larter plays.

On 12/10/2016 at 4:35 PM, cynic said:

Blip's drama. After pointing out how it's not easy for Mike to Ginny in the last episode, why was he being such a giant baby in this one?

The mister and I had a bit of a dispute about this. I was calling Blip out on his being a pissy little whiner (though I may have used a five letter 'b' word), and the mister was all "he has his reasons." Which was, in and of itself, pretty funny.

Edited by Clanstarling
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On 12/8/2016 at 11:54 PM, Tetraneutron said:

Also, does anyone think the show is aware of fan complaints and writing to address them? For the first time, Oscar was pro-analytics and Entourage guy (and it's a bad, bad, sign when ten episodes in I can't remember the character's name and I never even watched Entourage) was sentimental.

I actually thought both were still in character.  Oscar was pro-analytics because he was concerned for Ginny, herself.  The other guy, who uses Sabermetrics because it brings in more wins/money in general, was more concerned with the fact Ginny brought sold-out games, so he was fine with her staying in as long as possible.

And agreed that it wasn't the pitching that hurt Ginny, it was the off-balance throw after a bunt (and I'll echo that side-eye to the fictional Dodgers for doing that).  Hopefully, that means she hurt something that won't require the Tommy John surgery (and I find it interesting that for once, the show didn't fully explain all that - but I know who Tommy John was and what happened to him).

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@Password It was super on the nose, but I honestly think Al was just talking about baseball. lol. But, applied it to his situation because he questions the legitimacy of his feelings and he was still hoping to get a second chance with Rachel.

I think Blip is acting like Ginny during the trade episode. He wants everything to stay the same that he isn't think about others. But, I think that he assumed that Evelyn gave up her dreams and just wanted to focus on him and their family. It's also why he's lashing out at Mike, which ironically, he chewed Ginny out for during the trade situation and pointed out to her before the trade. I guess it was just talk if he's holding against Mike.

I liked Noah, but the whole "Go on vacation with me" after two half dates and two days of known each other (three???), that made me side eye him. Another show had a character do this, but they were acquainted with each other for a bit longer, so it didn't come off weird like it does with Noah.

That Ginny and Evelyn scene was EVERYTHING.

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4 hours ago, Nanrad said:

@Password It was super on the nose, but I honestly think Al was just talking about baseball. lol. But, applied it to his situation because he questions the legitimacy of his feelings and he was still hoping to get a second chance with Rachel.

Oh I'm sure Al was talking about baseball, but that's sort of the problem I have with it. I don't really think the analogy applies to what Mike went through with the Cubs. 

And absolutely Mike would apply this analogy to he and Ginny. Because Mike is a disaster. Hahahaha

4 hours ago, Nanrad said:

I liked Noah, but the whole "Go on vacation with me" after two half dates and two days of known each other (three???), that made me side eye him. Another show had a character do this, but they were acquainted with each other for a bit longer, so it didn't come off weird like it does with Noah.

 

And oh yes they went the whole nine yards with making Noah this perfectly perfect guy who is a billionaire and happens to sing. Probably flies the plane too.

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18 hours ago, Password said:

Oh I'm sure Al was talking about baseball, but that's sort of the problem I have with it. I don't really think the analogy applies to what Mike went through with the Cubs. 

And absolutely Mike would apply this analogy to he and Ginny. Because Mike is a disaster. Hahahaha

And oh yes they went the whole nine yards with making Noah this perfectly perfect guy who is a billionaire and happens to sing. Probably flies the plane too.

I see what you're saying regarding the analogy.

And, yes, Noah probably knows how to fly a plane too. *groans* But, Mike, the Human Disaster, was firing on all cylinders by proving why he deserves he name. The hallway scene with him, Ginny, and Rachel will forever be iconic.

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A decent ending, although I think this show sort of lost its way when they shifted their focus off Ginny in the last few episodes. It was nice to sort of see it restored again -- especially her own version of the "inspiring pitching mound speech." I don't mind Noah, and I think he's an ideal first relationship/romance for Ginny. She needs someone who's comfortable in their own skin, who isn't going to make their problems her problems for now. I liked her asserting herself.

On the other hand, that ending was kind of like a middle finger to the network, daring them to be cancelled. I mean, if the show is cancelled, they systematically dismantled almost Ginny's entire support system, so if she is seriously injured, she has almost no one. They showed her agent getting on a plane, her brother abandoning her, they revealed in her speech that she doesn't think Noah may have the capacity to be there for her. They showed Mike angsting over her injury (though I don't know how that helps her, as he wasn't there with her so she could see how he was affected by it). If the final image of the show is Ginny putting on a brave face while she waits to find out if her career is over...that's such an unnecessarily dark ending, I really see it as these writers daring the network to let them leave the show on that down note. Because that's a pretty bleak outlook for the first woman (and woman of color) pitcher in MLB.

But talk about tempting the wrath from high atop the thing...

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@Eolivet that's actually a really good point. They essentially wrecked every relationship on the show and the last time we see Ginny she's alone going through an MRI. Finales tend to set up the next season, but it was almost vicious how alone they leave Ginny in the end. 

I really hope they renew it because I'm still invested in Ginny's story.

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These last two epsidoes really really really really worked for me. I think the absence of flashbacks is the main difference. This was a very strong Ginnie centric episode, but due to no flashbacks, there was more time to develop side characters like Evelyn, who was sooooo good in this episode. I think a restaurant idea could work as another place for the players to hang out, but my dream? A agency company started by Amelia and Evelyn, y'all!

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On 12/12/2016 at 8:02 PM, Nanrad said:

I liked Noah, but the whole "Go on vacation with me" after two half dates and two days of known each other (three???), that made me side eye him. Another show had a character do this, but they were acquainted with each other for a bit longer, so it didn't come off weird like it does with Noah.

That Ginny and Evelyn scene was EVERYTHING.

I think what Ginny objected to was the idea that Noah was really into her after those two dates. He seemed to be fascinated with the idea of her and doesn't really know who Ginny is. This scenario is actually quite similar to the teammate who developed "feelings" for Ginny because she's pretty. Neither of them have heard her hum Katy Perry or go on feminista rants the way Mike has. In fact, the scene with Mike going to his ex-wife and Ginny bringing Noah to her hotel room could have been symbolizing the two of them sleeping with other people instead of each other. 

I'm still not convinced I want Mike and Ginny to get together, but their chemistry is off the charts. 

And I also loved the scene with Ginny and Evelyn. Evelyn is a true ride-or-die friend--she didn't miss a beat when she expected to hear about a moment with Noah but ended up listening to Ginny's story about her and Mike having a moment. She's all about supporting people, which is why Blip seriously needs to check himself. 

But to play Devil's Advocate: having another baby doesn't mean Evelyn can't work or pursue her college degree. She and Blip certainly can afford a nanny to help raise three kids. But if Evelyn is emotionally done with the idea of having another bay, then she's done, nanny or not. 

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@topanga I understand why she objected, I was just really appalled. lol. And I agree, he's just really fascinated by her because that is impulsive as hell and I doubt the connection was that quick. But, I do see them sleeping with other people rather than each other is symbolizing their avoidance for how they feel about one another. Both of the times Ginny went out with Noah was motivated by whatever was going on with Mike. The first time was Butch noting how close they were and the second time was, I believe, the awkward hall conversation. Ginny thinks he's cute and interesting, but she's not dying to go out with him--he wasn't something she initially thought about taking on into her hectic, busy life, until she had to find a way to avoid her feelings for Mike.On Mike's almost last night as a Padre he invited only Ginny rather than his other teammates or those he's known longer. Despite, "getting" Rachel "back", he's still obsessing about Ginny. Those hook ups/reunions were about avoidance and not (solely) because of the other person involved. 

Give into the chemistry....lol.

"Does the beard match the carpet?" *cackles*

I think the baby thing and career desire are two separate issues. Evelyn doesn't want anymore kids, but she also wants to get started on her career. The way she said it, imo, seems like something she's been thinking about but didn't talk to Blip about it yet. It didn't come off as something like she thought her career made it impossible or bad to have another kid.

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Generally, I believe that the person who does NOT want children should get their way, every time, without fail. In this case, Evelyn can control the situation.

Still do NOT like Bawson. Unpopular opinion alert: I really think Mike and Amelia had chemistry and could’ve worked, and I thought their “breakup” was a little shallow. I was ambivalent about Mike getting back together with the ex, but until this thread I didn’t remember that she cheated on him with no remorse and blaming it on him. HAAAAAATE. Mike, don’t stick it in the crazy.

The pants they put on Al’s daughter (name?) were a crime. (I didn’t notice what Mike’s ex was wearing.) I didn’t know floods and ankle boots went together on anybody but 80-year-old men in the 1970s. The costume designer needs to be jailed. And I really felt for Oscar that she decided to leave. That look on his face! I really really love Oscar and I think his sleazy come-on to Amelia in the pilot was him getting it out of the way, doing what he probably knew he’d be expected to do.

I hope they get another season, but I thought the way they ended it was perfect. A great cliffhanger if they do. A great big fuck-you to the network if they don’t (generating fan response to the network).

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4 hours ago, Mojeaux said:

Still do NOT like Bawson. Unpopular opinion alert: I really think Mike and Amelia had chemistry and could’ve worked, and I thought their “breakup” was a little shallow. 

I would agree with this opinion if the darn phone call didn't happen. That episode had a lot of strong Mike and Amelia moments with him sharing his future plans and current struggle with his ailing body. 

But then he called Ginny instead of Amelia and I was done. Amelia never stood a chance because he was already becoming hung up on his rookie. 

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3 hours ago, Password said:

But then he called Ginny instead of Amelia and I was done. Amelia never stood a chance because he was already becoming hung up on his rookie. 

Yes, and you know, that just seemed so forced. YMMV.

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Honestly, I didn't see it as forced because Mike has had non platonic feelings for Ginny since like the second game. Overall, he likes being around her and talking to her. Admittedly, I adore his dynamic with Amelia and think they could've had a nice long term relationship where they amicably broke up, but Mike is strongly drawn to Ginny. Amelia is the age appropriate choice who he likes an gets along well with, but he's enamored by Ginny due to her intelligence, strength, personality, and so forth. Not to say that Amelia's not any of these things, but the combo of Ginny's characteristics, and then some is what make Mike drawn to Ginny like a moth to a flame. 

Interestingly enough, Ginny, Amelia, and Rachel, who Mike has interests in beyond sex, share significant traits in common: strong personalities, independent, feminists beliefs, calling him on his shit, and so forth. I know some people are icked out by the age difference as well as the power differential, but based off of the last mound speech by Ginny (as well as other shit), Mike is letting Ginny dictate what happens. But, most importantly, Mike isn't drawn to Ginny because of her youth, occasional naivety, or to assert power over her. He may fuck around, but he seems to only date women who challenge him and keep him honest, which Ginny has done several times in the series in some capacity. 

Edited by Nanrad
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I actually liked that they had Mike and Amelia in a pseudo relationship. It annoys me when shows do the whole "destined to be together and no one else could ever be a substitute" thing. Blip named great reasons for why Mike and Amelia would make a good couple, but it's simply down to choice. I'm good with this person, but I want that person. 

Anyway, I never thought Mike was as into Amelia as she was into him. Mike hooking up with Amelia seemed in large part due to his wife putting the kibosh on their relationship. Maybe in small part due to running away from Ginny, but definitely mostly because of Rachel. So when Mike called it quits with Amelia it actually made a lot of sense to me because they were keeping secrets and made their own little perfect world. But when Ginny found out, that bubble disappeared. 

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I hope next season Ginny is allowed to have more girlfriends.

Evelyn is a fantastic BFF, but I'd also like to see Ginny patch things up with her Mom & Amelia, and Lyndsy Fonseca's Cara return.

I know the premise of the show is 'a woman in a man's world,' but I feel Ginny would flourish with more decidedly feminine influences in her life.

Edited by Dee
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@Dee I think this has everything to do with the episode order RE: the lack of other girlfriends but it's also because if how sheltered she was growing up. Most of her friends are through baseball, which shows you that she had very little time for socializing outside of that.

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19 hours ago, Nanrad said:

@Dee I think this has everything to do with the episode order RE: the lack of other girlfriends but it's also because if how sheltered she was growing up. Most of her friends are through baseball, which shows you that she had very little time for socializing outside of that.

I understand Pitch's mid-season replacement status and Ginny's lack of a social life as a kid, affected the storytelling. But unlike most female sports stories, Pitch has avoided the cliche route of portraying Ginny as a tomboy who spurns all things feminine, which is refreshing.

I'd like to see the show capitalize on that by having the show delve deeper into Ginny's psyche and compare and contrast her feelings with the other women in her life. Does she want to go back to school? Does she want to make up for her missed childhood by becoming a party girl? Does she want a family? Is her pay commensurate with her status as a singular star athlete? How many ceilings does she have to break through to genuinely shatter glass ceilings for women in sports? etc.

And if that level of intense character work means, less dwelling on Mike's bad knees or Oscar's middle management shenanigans, then so be it imo.

Edited by Dee
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On 12/18/2016 at 6:02 AM, Dee said:

I hope next season Ginny is allowed to have more girlfriends.

Evelyn is a fantastic BFF, but I'd also like to see Ginny patch things up with her Mom & Amelia, and Lyndsy Fonseca's Cara return.

I want Cara back so bad -- she is great friend and Ginny needs more friends.

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52 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

I want Cara back so bad -- she is great friend and Ginny needs more friends.

ITA.

I liked Ginny & Cara becoming friends because Cara lacks the baggage of Evelyn & Amelia.

It was a nice change of pace to see Ginny enjoying herself instead of constantly wilting from the pressure of MLB life.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm a little late to the party, but the holidays, yo! I have so many thoughts on this show:

1. As heartbreaking/frustrating/nauseating as it was, I think it was pretty realistic that Jenny went out like that, just before the season ended. We're huge baseball fans, & I posted before that I appreciated the realism that on Jenny's first outing, she was crazy-all-over-the-place-except-the-plate. It sucks, but it often happens that pitchers get hurt at the end of the season. I appreciate realness on my TV shows.

2. I also appreciate hot, adult Zach Morris. Just yum. Honestly, I forgot that Joanna Garcia was married to a real-life baseball player (former player now? I can't remember, we're an NL-fam), Nick Swisher, until someone mentioned her married name upthread. Good call. That adds a different depth to her portrayal. I think it's totally realistic that Mike & Jenny would have feelings for each other, but I also think it's totally realistic that they both realize that it'd be horrible to act on those feelings at this moment. Slow burns are the best anyway.

3. I really enjoy this show, & I'd really like to see it come back. However, please, as a devout baseball fan, who never quits watching until the last out of the season for my team (in fairness, we're Cardinals' fans, so that's usually way late into October!), please make this a winter/spring show. By September/October, I'm so wrapped up in real baseball that I probably wasn't as into this show as I could've been. However, by January, when it's -65*, with 19 feet of snow on the ground, a baseball show sounds pretty good. 

4. Finally, Kylie Bunbury is really, really a great actor, especially for being so young. Again, huge baseball fan, & huge Cards' fan, which is a very tradition-rich team, but I kinda forgot I was watching a show, & when she pulled up to the stadium on the first day to all of the little girls chanting her name, & they gave her #43, one up from Jackie Robinson...yeah, I'm tearing-up just typing this, but it really made me feel so much, & TV shows rarely do that, save, of course, for "This Is Us". 

I truly hope this show comes back. It has so much potential, & such a great cast. I can't imagine how some ridiculous shows stay on the air year-after-year, & this great, ground-breaking show is on the bubble. 

#GirlsLoveBaseballToo

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On 12/29/2016 at 4:00 PM, nkotb said:

I truly hope this show comes back. It has so much potential, & such a great cast. I can't imagine how some ridiculous shows stay on the air year-after-year, & this great, ground-breaking show is on the bubble. 

Quoted For Truth!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I suggested it to a few people, @Nanrad, but I haven't heard if they watched it.

When will we know if it's coming back? Honestly, even if it was maybe a show on MLB Network, we'd still watch it. It's so much better than half the crap on TV right now. 

Pitchers & catchers report in just a few weeks, though, I'm ready!

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