S04.E05: Pineapples In Paris

[Tara Ariano]

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A confrontation during group therapy leaves Daniel questioning whether he could possibly adjust to normal life.

[Fisher King]

On the next Rectify:

Spoiler

 

[Primetimer]

The best and worst of the latest episode, from A to Zeke.

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[kieyra]

I mentioned last week that I thought Teddy would initiate the divorce. And he did and I was relieved.

But then he went back to doing slightly creepy stuff like breaking into the house. The show has teased us with making Teddy a little bit scary from the beginning, and now we get the mixed messages--guns, but also booze and fishing rods. Could be a hunting/fishing/pity party, or it could be impending murder/suicide. 

I still wish the Chloe character was working out, but something just went wrong there. I like Caitlin Fitzgerald, but either she was miscast or the character just wasn't developed well enough. You can *feel* the acting in their scenes, which is quite jarring for this show. That sense of "no one talks like that", which the show usually sidesteps somehow. 

I'm glad they're still examining the whodunnit aspect of the case, but much of the development this week felt a little off. I don't understand why the one guy (Bobby?) and the sheriff suddenly had this change of heart. I think we needed more time with that and maybe a little less time with the Teds.

[SusanSunflower]

This felt like a shift back to center. Teddy, imho, somehow became the more interesting character and I felt like Daniel regained at least parity this episode, although Bad Teddy has some psycho aspects that make me a bit fearful. Screw him for burglarizing Tawney's home while she was at work. Screw him for abandoning the tire store when he knew that his father and Janet were on-the-road. (Both happening BEFORE Bobby Dean's visit and the info he provides).  Teddy -- who hasn't been in prison for 20 years -- seems to be having his own problems adjusting to "real life" and change. 

We've seen Ted as the strong silent and patient type of husband, and now have to wonder how much he has been "putting up with" and resenting all along. I also wonder what Janet might have hoped for at her high school graduation. Did she just want to get married and have kids and a nice home?  Her life (and Amantha's) also got frozen by the need to  "be there" showing constancy of love and faith while Daniel was on death row.  Did she and Ted "have to marry" i.e. was Jared an accident? (even if a happy accident) 

[Fisher King]

I thought this was the best episode so far this season. I agree about the mixed messages with Teddy.  The sense of dread hangs over him, as it does with Daniel. Janet and Ted's road trip "discussions" were much-needed and long overdue.  It felt like they'd never posed those personal questions to each other before.
Ted and Tawney's "divorce" scene was so well done.

[AuntiePam]

Well, at least Daniel knows how to come right out with what's bothering him.  What a big step, and how godawful painful for him.

I like that Janet and Ted were talking, but hey, Janet?  The man's trying to drive.  Ask those deep questions when you stop for boiled peanuts, and don't get all huffy and stalk off when you don't like the responses.  Ted's deeper than she thinks -- she just needs to listen. 

I don't like Teddy leaving with guns, the implication being that he's suicidal.  There's no one he wants to kill, so why take the guns?  Is he going to try to force Trey to confess to something?  It would certainly put Teddy in everyone's good graces if he did something to truly exonerate Daniel. 

[SusanSunflower]

I wondered ... When Teddy said his father told him that his mother had left ..."because I didn't clean my room" or "because I was a bad kid" and then something about "clean as you go" ... I didn't believe that Ted ever said such a thing and that Teddy was just fishing for sympathy or playing drama queen ... or just trying to change the subject by saying something outrageous .... anyone else have thoughts on that 

Edited November 24, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[kieyra]

Next morning, I've got a couple of possibilities about Teddy and his choice of things to take from the house:

1) He really is just going to go out in the woods and hunt/fish/drink and feel sorry for himself for a little while. Hunting has been a theme this season. 

2) He was just taking the last couple of things from the house that he wanted. Cooked his last steak on the barbecue, grabbed the things that were only "his". 

3) He's going to kill himself, and he took the fishing rods and tackle as misdirection so people might not be so alarmed at first when he went missing. In this scenario, he really only wanted the guns and the booze.

I suppose I'm over my fear since nearly the beginning of the show, which is that he was going to play out the tired old story of a man killing a woman for leaving him, because I don't think the show will go that dark with these characters they've developed so carefully. I hope.

[bmoore4026]

DON'T CONFIDE IN CHLOE ANYMORE, DANIEL!!!  She looks like grown up Lizzie from The Walking Dead and she's wearing Dexy's Midnight Runners Overalls!  Five'll get you ten she has a Hello Kitty backback.

Daniel should just drop everything and run.  Embrace the life of a drifter on a motorcycle.  Forget his hometown, forget the half-way house, forget Chloe, forget Hannah.  Maybe still keep in contact with his mother, but it's obvious he doesn't belong in society anymore.  Daniel, you were born to run.

But, what can I say?  I'm a romantic.

[SusanSunflower]

The scene of Teddy (was it in the den/convert basement/man cave with the elegant sleek gun safe and all of his fishing rods carefully on display again reminded me of just how very comfortable Teddy's job at the tire store made his life.  Does he actually fish or hunt, or are those just the accoutrements of manly life in Paulie?  Like the pickup truck. 

My impression was that Tawney accepted that she had ruined date night, just like Teddy said, by not being a good listener and understanding that he wasn't mad at her, just "upset" about the store offer -- she was offering him a make-up "date" at the house (for the first time) where he would have the privacy to be upset (and not yell at her in public, again).  She's still trying to follow Teddy's rules and judgments.  Still mostly cringing and cowering around Teddy, who feels bad about himself for yelling at her for not understanding that he's not mad at her.  Yes, I think it's doomed but I don't think Teddy asked for a divorce to spare Tawney the decision. Did she even get a word in edgeways?  Imagine what her therapist will have to say beyond "How does that make you feel?" 

Edited November 24, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[Kathemy]

Best episode of the season, I think. Utilized all characters well. Furthered the main storyline.

But seriously Chloe is a miss.

[rue721]

Janet and Ted are in some serious trouble. I find him maddening, and would have been at least as aggravated as Janet was by his refusal to have any conversations with her or even use his imagination at all on the road. But I also thought it was telling that she didn't do ANYTHING to defuse the situation or her own anger, she just kept escalating things. I think she might be as done with him as she is with the tire store. It wouldn't surprise me if she left him -- and soon.

I don't even think she would necessarily mind leaving Jared to finish his last year or two in Paulie (living with Ted) while she moved elsewhere, if that were something that Jared wanted. I mean, I don't think that even Jared could tie her down if she wanted to go. Although the idea of being left to finish raising Jared on his own would probably freak Ted the hell out considering that would be the second time he'd been put into that position (not that he would probably show he was freaked out, in any way).

I don't know how I feel about Ted putting on a happy face to see Daniel. I get why he was going to be polite. But it has just got to be disingenuous, because he and Janet had such a terrible trip, and because I would think he'd hate the guy. So I still find it uncomfortable that he will just act completely contrary to what he must be feeling.

Well, anyway. Teddy taking the guns from the house was pretty ominous. I don't have a definite idea about what he wanted all that stuff for, though.

I think he's essentially on a bender. He'd been drinking since *at least* that morning when he left Tawney's. Probably since the night before, when he heard about the offer --  if his past behavior is anything to go by. And in the morning, he goes straight from Tawney's house to his parents' and starts in on beer there, then leaves when that runs out and gets more beer on the road (drinking a can in the car), then breaks into Tawney's house and starts in on liquor, then takes a big box of liquor (and guns! and fishing poles?) away from Tawney's house with him...

It's one thing to drink, but the way he downed that first beer at his parents' was troubling. And he's been wanting to crawl off and get sloppy drunk on his own by the end of pretty much every episode this season (including this one). I wonder about that big box of liquor, because that can be just as lethal as a gun if he lets it.

Anyway, I get why he skipped work. It must seem supremely pointless to go in, seeing as the store is good as sold. Amantha even guessed that they'd gotten the offer when she saw that Teddy was at the house and hadn't gone to work. So I didn't think anything much of that decision on its own, tbh.

So, what the hell DID George mean when he told Bobby Dean that Trey had gone back? Gone back to what, where? I thought that Bobby was making it pretty clear that George and Trey had killed Hannah, but mostly because of George seeming so contrite after her death. (And I'm happy to know that we're likely going to get an answer on that by the end of the season after all!). But I still had no idea what that last line of George's could actually be about.

I was not that into Daniel's storyline at New Canaan. I get why Manny beating off made Daniel extremely uncomfortable, but despite Manny initially being a PITA about it, it seemed like that was all resolved very nicely and neatly (too nicely and neatly). I also thought it was a little ridiculous that everyone was worried about how Daniel would react to his parents coming to visit. Daniel's parents aren't exactly a tinderbox ready to explode at any moment. His family is fine, even his relationship with them is essentially fine...I dunno. It just seemed a little OTT to me. Why would anyone at New Canaan or Chloe even think there was an issue between Daniel and his family?

But -- although it's not saying much (kind of damning with faint praise) -- I at least thought that Daniel and Chloe's conversation about not/being romantics was probably the best scene they've ever had together. At least the conversation itself was interesting, even if she doesn't really make sense as a character and they don't really make sense as friends.

Edited November 24, 2016 by rue721

[Armchair Critic]

I could be totally wrong, but my theory was the 3 guys (George, Trey, and Chris(?)) raped Hannah and then Trey went back and killed her.

[SusanSunflower]

from Wiki Episodes -- Season 3 Episode 6

""Chris, another man who was present at the gathering where Hanna was killed, makes an official confession that he, Trey, George and others raped Hanna but did not kill her. "

I think the implication is that Trey witnessed someone killing Hanna (who was alive when they left her), told George and both said nothing as Daniel was convicted and sentenced to death.  Since we've not met Chris, he seems a natural to be Chekov's whatever ... 

Trey was arrested and (correctly) released for George's murder (which was a suicide) ... but his guilty behavior is voluminous, overwhelming, in fact, to the point that "it can't be him" unless it is. 

wiki episodes

[rue721]

1 hour ago, Armchair Critic said:

I could be totally wrong, but my theory was the 3 guys (George, Trey, and Chris(?)) raped Hannah and then Trey went back and killed her.

 

1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:

I think the implication is that Trey witnessed someone killing Hanna (who was alive when they left her)

Ahhhhh OK, that makes sense! Thanks

[Stella]

6 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

Since we've not met Chris

Just a note that we did meet Chris last season. He was in the 5th & 6th episodes last season. He is a doctor, has  a respectable life with a lot to lose. The sheriff goes to his house I believe and he is later brought in to make a statement.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Stella

[Fisher King]

http://www.sundance.tv/series/rectify/videos/rectify-inside-episode-405-pineapples-in-paris

[Armchair Critic]

Teddy has an air of tension around him and he scares me a bit. But honestly I would have a hard time dealing with Tawney, she is so slow talking and hesitant (and I know this is partly because she doesn't want to upset Teddy) that she would drive me nuts. 

11 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

The scene of Teddy (was it in the den/convert basement/man cave with the elegant sleek gun safe and all of his fishing rods carefully on display again reminded me of just how very comfortable Teddy's job at the tire store made his life.

Also I got the impression that Tawney didn't work when they were married, so he really was making a good living from the tire store.

[rue721]

43 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Also I got the impression that Tawney didn't work when they were married, so he really was making a good living from the tire store.

On the one hand, I think that he definitely has been making a good living from the tire store. He's in sales, so I guess he's supposed to make the bulk of his pay on commission? And Teddy does have some hustle, so I can see him doing well making his money that way. I mean, his rim rental sideline has apparently been successful, and that's just based on his hustle afaik.

But on the other hand, even though he's apparently pretty good at making money, Teddy does not seem that great at managing it. The way he threw his house on the line as collateral for a business idea that was more or less just a whim at the time does not make me confident that he is prudent with his money. Neither does his tacky, flashy taste, or his need to project a very specific (and very prosperous) kind of image. IMO the foundations of that whole lifestyle are built on sand. I can just see that truck getting repo'ed from Amantha's complex's parking lot TBH.

15 hours ago, kieyra said:

I suppose I'm over my fear since nearly the beginning of the show, which is that he was going to play out the tired old story of a man killing a woman for leaving him, because I don't think the show will go that dark with these characters they've developed so carefully. I hope.

IMO the only character on this show who actually seems capable of murdering anyone is Trey.

I think that Teddy took the fishing rods, liquor, and hunting guns with him because he's planning to ask *someone* to go out into the woods with him under the pretenses of a fishing or hunting trip. But he's just a regular guy. I can't see him luring a person out into the wilderness for the purpose of murdering him/her and actually being able to go through with it. I mean maybe, but that seems like a big jump.

Also, does Teddy even hate anyone (aside from himself) enough to kill them? Even when he threatened Daniel, who was the bane of his existence for a while there, he just said that he would go to the cops about him.

I mostly think that he's going to ask someone to go with him because 1. he took two rods and two guns 2. Bobby Dean's story about George seemed to inspire him.

The part of Bobby Dean's story that he seemed most interested in (aside from Trey more or less confessing via George) was when Bobby said that his mother liked all the people borrowing her tragedy because it meant she didn't have to scream and cry to get a lick of attention for once. And then he told Jared and Amantha to lock their doors, which makes me think that he figured that people would be coming to them once whatever goes down with Teddy goes down.

My best guess is that Teddy is going to kill himself, but frame someone else for the death. Frame who, though, I don't know. Probably Trey, possibly Daniel?

I hope he doesn't, though! Teddy is obnoxious as hell, but I still like him. It would be such a shame.

[SusanSunflower]

I can see Teddy grabbing Jared (even drafting him as the sober driver) for some male bonding fishin' and huntin' as a cover to surveille Trey (or Bobby Dean) or someone. We can only hope that Jared declines.  Jared's relationship with Teddy and Amantha and Janet and Ted all seems so at arms length that I always expect him to be a surly unpleasant teen, and in fact he's a darling young man with an apparently-inherited Talbot chip already starting to grow on his shoulder.  I'd like him to explode with frustration and disgust at all of the refusing-to-be-happy adults in his world (or whatever he's been thinking for the last few months of turmoil that mostly been kept hidden from him) 

[MaryPatShelby]

I really liked that Jared was included in the discussion when Teddy told what Bobby had said.  When Amantha said asked Jared if he knew what was going on with the store, Jared answered "Are you kidding?", I thought his answer could be interpreted one of two ways.  It is entirely likely that Jared does NOT know what's going on, because most often his mom and dad do not tell him what's going on, or he might know.  It's interesting, to me, that his answer was cryptic, yet Amantha and Teddy kept talking as if Jared did know.

[Endeavour]

I was pretty tired when I watched this ep, so I may have missed some nuances, but I saw Teddy's actions as him saying goodbye to the house and that part of his life - nothing more. He's definitely not in a good place which is understandable but I didn't get the impression that he was going to harm himself or anyone else. He went back to grill one last steak and collect a few of the items he left in the hope that he would be living there once again. Now that he's accepted (I hope) that the marriage is over, he's making his peace with it and officially moving on. There's always tension in his scenes (and the entire show for the most part) but I didn't read anything more into it. I'll have to rewatch in a more alert state to see if my opinion changes. 

[peeayebee]

20 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I could be totally wrong, but my theory was the 3 guys (George, Trey, and Chris(?)) raped Hannah and then Trey went back and killed her.

That was my take, too, but I can see it's possible that he witnessed someone else killing her. If it was Chris, I don't know why Trey would cover for him. Maybe I'm forgetting something about the relationships.

I'm still on Ted's side and think Janet is taking out her anger and frustration on him. She thinks about what if she had taken a different course in her life so Daniel wouldn't have had to go thru what he did and so she wouldn't have had to go thru her grief. Maybe I'm taking a too simplistic view of this. Ted doesn't like confrontation and wants to keep things on an even keel, but I also see him as very empathetic. Yes, he got angry at Daniel for doing what he did to Teddy, but Ted also knows that Daniel has had a terrible 20 years in prison, and that no one who hasn't been in his position can really understand what he feels.

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I don't understand why the one guy (Bobby?) and the sheriff suddenly had this change of heart.

The sheriff always seemed to me to be on the fence. He seemed like an honest lawman, trying to find the truth but maybe not wanting to rock the boat. Maybe the culmination of everything just tipped him over.

As far as Bobby, yeah, to me that came out of nowhere, but honestly I don't remember stuff very well. Didn't he seem kind of conflicted in some scenes with his mother?

It was sweet when Teddy asked Tawny for a divorce. He was right to tell her that she would never make that decision, that she just wanted everything to be nice. 

I don't think Teddy is going to do anything horrible with the guns. I think he just saw the guns and fishing poles as they only real parts of him left in the house, the only things left for him now that he's not a husband or a worker in a tire store anymore. He has to reinvent himself, but he'll start with being a hunter and fisherman.

As far as Daniel goes, I have to admit that last week I didn't see his reaction to the masturbating as being so connected to the prison rapes as it obviously was. Anyway, I'm glad the guys in the house were all on his side rather than Manny's. Changing roommates is an easy solution. It doesn't change Daniel's trauma, but at least it makes his life there more tolerable.

It's interesting that the question of his guilt in Hannah's murder is so unimportant compared to what his life is now.

I would love to rewatch the entire series, binge-fashion, when the it ends, but I probably won't have the time.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I think Trey would cover for Chris if there was money in it for him. I definitely think cash changed hands at some point after the murder.

Edited November 25, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[peeayebee]

Was Chris's dad wealthy?

[AuntiePam]

Janet and Ted -- middle-aged couples who aren't happy can look at their relationship in one of two ways:  Life's too short (I'm done) or It's too late (I don't want to die alone).  Do they chuck it and start over or do they suck it up and try to make it work.  I hope they try to make it work.

[SusanSunflower]

See, I don't think Teddy did Tawney any favor.  He did himself a "favor" by pulling the plug on the "cycle of pain" (see video linked above) that HE wanted to end.  Tawney in fact wasn't ready to "give up"** ... as evidenced by the invitation to come over, the muffins and the rest ... even though she too wasn't seeing any "hope" in the process (and yes, I think Teddy blowing up in the diner, causing everyong in the place to turn and look at him precipitated this -- hard to pretend to be the in control "good guy" when you're snapping at your wife in public).  I'm not sure how long they were married or how happy they were before Daniel came along, but I think they've only been at trying to save this marriage for few months.  (** indeed, it almost certainly was a good thing that Teddy ended it, given that he no longer wanted to do the work. Tawney isn't going to "change her spots" to become someone who stop cringing when Teddy barks. )

I still marvel at Teddy's endless tailspin at relatively minor changes (and/or threats) to his comfortable existence.  Yes, separating from your wife is a very big deal ... but unlike Tawney, Teddy has a support system.  I notice that no one in the Holden/Talbot household inquires after Tawney, even Janet, probably out of deference to Teddy's "feelings."   Did Teddy ever "forgive" Tawney?  I had to notice he really didn't let her say anything that morning.  I can't remember if he let her talk at the diner. How typically Teddy. 

I don't know what resentment Ted holds.  I can think of many, and yet, like Teddy, he's had a loving wife, a steady job and a very nice home to console him for the last almost 20 years.  I presume this is leading up to something that will explain how/why Ted has gone from upright good guy to Janet's victim.  In a way, longstanding issues in is 20 year marriage is awfully big can of worms to open with only a couple episodes left.  Ted and Janet are around 60, time to consider what they want to do with the rest of their lives in any event. The $$$ offers potentially opens some doors of opportunity, but it will (probably) mean closing others and "change" --OMG -- change is bad.  If Ted's not wanting to sell is based on Teddy's future prospects -- then he needs to say so. Janet can advocate for Daniel and Ted can advocate for Teddy... and the deed is in Janet's name, and the possibility of relocating the tire business was mentioned. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[nodorothyparker]

I adore this show.  It's taken me a long time to finally get caught up but now here I am.

Given what we know about the timeline (when Daniel went to prison and Jared's age) and what we don't know exactly (when Lester, Daniel and Amantha's father died) other than being in the same short window of time, I'm getting the sense that Janet never really properly mourned the family that she lost before starting a new one with a new husband and a new son.    With Lester dead and what she probably thought was no realistic hope that Daniel would ever be free, she managed to be mostly content with the replacement life she had created.  But now her son is out but can't be where she is and here's this offer to sell out and start over away from where so much of the bad happened and everyone knows the Holden name, maybe close to the son she's missed out on so many years with.  I get it, just like I can get Ted being frustrated with feeling like she's always regarded him as her cleanup guy but never even appreciated him for it.

I don't know how exactly it happened, but Teddy went from being kind of annoying in season 1 to being every bit as fascinating to watch as the main draw of Daniel.  Clayne Crawford is doing some amazing work and I increasingly find myself unable to take my eyes off him because I'm never quite sure which way his character is going to break.  The brilliance of his scene with Tawney goes without saying, but the one that really got me was his sitting across the table from Bobby Dean.  You could see in his mostly wordless reacting to what Bobby was telling him that hearing about the aftermath of Hanna's murder was making it and Daniel real for him in a way that it simply wasn't in the beginning of the series when it was all dry family lore to him.  "Yep, he did it.  Spent 20 years on death row.   I don't know why I have to be here for any of this."

I actually liked Chloe in this episode.

Edited November 25, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[SusanSunflower]

Chloe still has a Hallmark card "brightness"/therpaeutic mileu speak quality I can't get around. I liked her much better this episode, but I also wanted  to ask her to "get real" ... I noticed that, like Tawney, Daniel's "love interest' is pregnant with "some other man's child" but I'm not seeing any significance to that except that preggo women are not -- in fact -- sexually untouchable or necessarily only platonic partners, regardless of who the daddy is ... on the other hand, he can't accidentally knock up an already pregnant woman. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[The Mighty Peanut]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Was Chris's dad wealthy?

I'm not sure, but Chris certainly is (at least by Paulie standards). I believe he's a doctor, which means he either had scholarships or a family to send him to college, which seems like a relative rarity in the area. In either case he had a brighter future than Trey and George.

Also, Foulkes (that's the senator, right?) clearly had some kind of role in setting up Daniel which suggests IMO that there may have been a political favor and/or blackmail in play as well.

I just really hope we see the house of cards come down by the (*sniffle*) end of the series. My personal fan wank is that Daniel is fully exonerated and given a shit ton of money from the state of Georgia, which he uses to set up Kerwin's family for life. Janet and Ted go to couples counseling and live happily ever after. Tawney and Teddy divorce. After getting a job as a tire specialist for NASCAR, Teddy marries a country gal who loves beer, BBQ, and tossing around the old pigskin. They have four boys. Tawney becomes a geriatric doctor and keeps Zeke's plaque in a place of honor in her office. She is single and loving it because she is now a Strong Independent Woman. Amantha and Jon adopt Melvin. Chloe...I don't care but let's give her a lifetime pass to Burning Man. Hannah's killers go to prison but they get life sentences and are spared the isolation and doom of death row per Daniel's insistence. Foulkes dies a shell of his former self. Also there was an error in the paperwork and Kerwin is living on that island that Tim Robbins' character did in the Shawshank Redemption. Daniel meets him there and they live happily ever after as bros. WHAT? I LOVE KERWIN. I SAID WHAT I SAID.

Edited November 25, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[MaryPatShelby]

4 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

. I noticed that, like Tawney, Daniel's "love interest' is pregnant with "some other man's child" 

What?  As far as we know, I'm sure, Tawney was pregnant by Teddy.

[SusanSunflower]

neither is pregnant by Daniel ... sorry if that was confusing ... 

[kieyra]

37 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

neither is pregnant by Daniel ... sorry if that was confusing ... 

Interesting, had forgotten Tawney was ever pregnant.

I guess another way in which Chloe is "Girl Jesus" redux.

But maybe that's the point--she's a poor substitute for Tawney?