S02.E06: Hero Complex

[thewhiteowl]

Quote

Malaya must inform a college student who regains consciousness at Angels Memorial that she's the victim of a rape. Meanwhile, Willis and Campbell butt heads over a terminally ill woman who wants to end her life on her own terms; and a comedian is treated after he collapses on stage during a performance.

[NYGirl]

Every time I watch this show I say to myself:  I miss ER and even moreso St. Elsewhere!

Edited November 10, 2016 by NYGirl

[Granny58]

I like this show and think Rob Lowe is doing a great job, and Luis Guzman is terrific.  Oh, and Marcia Gay Harden too!  

[mojito]

I thought from the very beginning that the unconscious guy was the hero. 

Ahh, St. Elsewhere. The grandfather of ensemble casts and gritty hospital "reality". Did you know that Dr. Auschlander (Norman Lloyd) is still alive and 101 years old?

Glad Campbell didn't go off the deep end.

Kind of a slow pace tonight, and that was nice. I'd been thinking about the 65 days a year when Angeles Hospital wasn't in Code Black. Should make for an interesting show. Imagine Campbell, Rorish, Mama, and Guthrie playing a few hands of bid whist.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, mojito said:

I thought from the very beginning that the unconscious guy was the hero.

Or, put another way, I knew right away that the hero was the real rapist.

[juliet73]

6 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Or, put another way, I knew right away that the hero was the real rapist.

I did too. 

I loved the scene at the end when The Grinder,  I mean Rob Lowe, helped with the assisted suicide. The mother and daughter laying together and the daughter was smiling saying "mommy don't cry."  It was so well done. I was tearing up.  And was the mom Annabeth Gish? 

[MelinaBallerina]

I liked Richard Lewis' storyline.  He was cranky, didn't want surgery, but wasn't over the top stubborn about it and survived.  It was what you'd expect in a hospital, not being over the top and soap opera-y.

[Marathonrunner]

It's too bad the girl wasn't assaulted in NYC - Olivia Benson would have been there in a minute to take care of her -  there didn't seem to be any police officers around her at all - talking to the "hero" comparing stories - the doctor was the only one giving her any care & guidance

Rob Lowe is terrific!

[Poohbear617]

What pill did rob Lowe give the girl to end her life...I thought it was a beautiful scene. my sister and had to watch helpless as our mothers final days were agonizing and it just seemed so wierd to me to see one simple pill and a peaceful dignified death.

I was also wondering about the assisted suicide act rob Lowe's character was talking about only because we're had to fight a dr. like Campbell to put our mother in hospice care, end her treatment and honor her wishe's in her living will.  is this a new act?

[Aliconehead]

16 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I did too. 

I loved the scene at the end when The Grinder,  I mean Rob Lowe, helped with the assisted suicide. The mother and daughter laying together and the daughter was smiling saying "mommy don't cry."  It was so well done. I was tearing up.  And was the mom Annabeth Gish? 

I knew too.  He was just to into being the hero.  

Yes that was Annabeth Gish

 

Quote

I was also wondering about the assisted suicide act rob Lowe's character was talking about only because we're had to fight a dr. like Campbell to put our mother in hospice care, end her treatment and honor her wishe's in her living will.  is this a new act?

If I am not mistaken this is supposed to be in California, California passed an Assisted Suicide, End of Life Option Act this year.  It went into affect in June

Edited November 11, 2016 by Aliconehead

[secnarf]

8 hours ago, Poohbear617 said:

What pill did rob Lowe give the girl to end her life...I thought it was a beautiful scene. my sister and had to watch helpless as our mothers final days were agonizing and it just seemed so wierd to me to see one simple pill and a peaceful dignified death.

In real life it's not just one pill. It is several. They don't make pills in lethal dosage forms, for obvious reasons, and we use a combination of medications for assisted suicide. Usually a barbiturate and/or opioid, as well as some anti-nausea medications so you don't vomit everything up. The medications are available and used for other things in lower dosages, there is nothing really special about them.

At least, that's how it works where I live.

Anyways, I haven't watched this show since the season premiere and therefore didn't see the scene you're referring to, but if they just showed her taking a single pill and dying, that's pretty unrealistic.

[kwnyc]

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if they just showed her taking a single pill and dying, that's pretty unrealistic.

An unrealistic medical procedure on THIS show? Color me amazed.

[cali1981]

I love this show.  It hits a lot of key social issues wrapped in a medical show drama. The cast is excellent and Rob Lowe has been a fantastic addition to the ensemble.  I've had to sit helplessly while a loved one's vital signs dropped to zero and the monitors were shut off.  The pain of that moment will always be with me and even though the assisted suicide scene was not the same circumstance,  the end result was and I was in tears watching it. The young actress,  Annabeth Gish  and Rob Lowe struck the perfect notes in playing out the scene. 

[cali1981]

19 hours ago, kwnyc said:

An unrealistic medical procedure on THIS show? Color me amazed.

I think that you're missing the point here.  Whether the exact method that was used to bring death was accurate or not is not the issue.  In real life would a lay person be administering the drugs? Of course not but it was the gut wrenching experience of a mother honoring her child's wishes and ultimately being the one to help her leave her suffering behind that mattered even if was only by being there for her that mattered.

[kwnyc]

Not missing the point. I was merely commenting that this show plays fast and loose with actual medical procedure a lot of the time.

No need to lecture me about it.

[secnarf]

4 hours ago, cali1981 said:

I think that you're missing the point here.  Whether the exact method that was used to bring death was accurate or not is not the issue.  In real life would a lay person be administering the drugs? Of course not but it was the gut wrenching experience of a mother honoring her child's wishes and ultimately being the one to help her leave her suffering behind that mattered even if was only by being there for her that mattered.

Actually, this is one part that's not unrealistic. There are kits that people can take home to die. It doesn't have to be a medical professional administering the drugs.

But yeah, since the initial sarcastic comment about unrealistic procedures was directed at my previous comment - since the person I was replying to was asking an honest question about the procedure, I was answering it. It doesn't matter that the show is full of unrealistic things. The point is that this specific instance was unrealistic, and not everybody watching knew that.

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, cali1981 said:

In real life would a lay person be administering the drugs?

I can't answer for sure, but a "lay person" administers a lethal injection, because the Hippocratic Oath prevents a doctor from doing so.  So...

[secnarf]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I can't answer for sure, but a "lay person" administers a lethal injection, because the Hippocratic Oath prevents a doctor from doing so.  So...

The Hippocratic Oath does not prevent a doctor from doing so. Doctors can administer lethal injections if the patient is in hospital. It lies in how the doctor interprets 'doing harm'. You could argue that not administering the lethal cocktail to a person is doing harm also. However, doctors are also not obliged to assist their patient in dying in any way if it conflicts with their own beliefs, they just have to make sure the patient has access to another person who can assist them.

Where I live/work, we have a few options - there is an "injection kit" which is usually done with a doctor/nurse's assistance in administering the medications, for people in hospital or who can't take oral medications for whatever reason, and then there are some kits with oral medications - pills or liquids - that people can take home and take themselves. Within each group, there are different 'backbones' that could be used, to give options depending on the patient's situation and preferences.

[Netfoot]

According to Wikipedia (which claims to be quoting the AMA):

Quote

The American Medical Association believes that a physician's opinion on capital punishment is a personal decision. Since the AMA is founded on preserving life, they argue that a doctor "should not be a participant" in executions in any professional capacity with the exception of "certifying death, provided that the condemned has been declared dead by another person" and "relieving the acute suffering of a condemned person while awaiting execution".[53] Amnesty International argues that the AMA's position effectively "prohibits doctors from participating in executions." The AMA, however, does not have the authority to prohibit doctors from participation in lethal injection, nor does it have the authority to revoke medical licenses, since this is the responsibility of the individual states.

Typically, most states do not require that physicians administer the drugs for lethal injection, but many states do require that physicians be present to pronounce or certify death.

Make of this what you will.

[secnarf]

19 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

According to Wikipedia (which claims to be quoting the AMA):

Make of this what you will.

That is referring to capital punishment - totally different than assisted suicide.

[Netfoot]

Just now, secnarf said:

That is referring to capital punishment...

About which I spoke in my original post:

Quote

...a "lay person" administers a lethal injection...

[secnarf]

Sorry for the confusion - I thought we were speaking about assisted suicide, which is what happened in the episode. "Lethal injection" doesn't necessarily mean capital punishment, especially to someone like me who has never lived in a place where capital punishment happens. I'm not sure what doctors' involvement in capital punishment has to do with assisted suicide?

[Netfoot]

I was simply pointing out that since doctors usually avoid administering lethal injections for capital punishment, perhaps they avoid participating in euthanasia for the same reason?  But it was just a suggestion, and as my original post says, "I can't answer for sure."

[howiveaddict]

The doctor who was in a coma, (sorry bad with names)  should sue the hospital for not finding out his paralysis when he was in a coma.  That would have   been determined on initial MRIs to determine if there was spinal injury. That's why they use a back board to transport people.  If his spine was unstable all this time, the staff could have fractured his spinal cord with just ordinary turning him. He would not have been kept flat on his back.  He would have bed sores if they had. Also, why would his dad not want his spine stabilize when they found the fracture.  Didn't make any sense at all since he wanted to be the most aggressive previously.   More bad medicine on this show!

[thewhiteowl]

Snark the show not each other, thanks.