Carol: One Day You Just Change

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So does anybody else think Gun Cart Girl was making eyes at her?

 

If only they had made something of that scene.

 

"Uh, Tara;  got a live one for ya, honey...."

[TallulahBelle]

I mean, come on.  This shirt basically says it all.  Amazing, I love how they're writing her and how MMB is playing her right now.  It's just awesome.

 

http://getanewtee.com/view/5912038/always_be_yourself_unless_you_can_be_carol_peletier_walking_dead_t_shirt 

[editorgrrl]

At first, I thought Carol was having trouble removing the gun from her shoulder due to pain & mobility issues from the car accident.

But her videotaped interview made me reconsider: “I did laundry, gardened.” I thought she was talking about Hershel's farm. “Always had dinner on the table every night for Ed when he came home. I miss that stupid, wonderful man every day.” Wait, what?! “I really didn’t have much to offer this group, so I sort of became their den mother.” Oh, she's undercover as a sweet little old lady. I wonder if Carol cried about Sophia, but TPTB cut it for time? (The best lies are always seeded with truth.)

[ghoulina]

Lol, editorgrrl, I had almost the same thought process as you did. When laying down the gun, I didn't realize immediately what she was going for. I thought maybe she found some pain meds in the RV and was delirious. Then when she was going on about laundry and gardening, I thought maybe she meant the prison. We never really saw her do those things, but I thought maybe she was trying to make herself sound well-rounded? When she said that about Ed, I was all - "Carol, are you on crack???" And then it hit me. Well played, Carol. I love that woman.

[Pete Martell]

This cracked me up.

 

http://carol-on.tumblr.com/post/112517304189

[momlyd]

Ooh, thanks for the Tumblr link! I know the woman who owns that and she is a Carol savant!

[nodorothyparker]

It took me a moment to realize what she was doing too, largely thanks to being up and moving around because of a recalcitrant child who didn't want to stay in bed.  So much so that I did a full doubletake worthy of the kind you see in the movies on the line about "stupid wonderful" Ed.  It was even more amazing on rewatch when you could fully appreciate just how committed Carol was at every step along the way to the helpless little lady who'd had to carry that big heavy nasty gun routine and how Rick and Daryl weren't the least bit fazed by it without her having to say a word about what she was doing.  

 

It made me love Carol and the Rick-Carol-Daryl trio all the more.  It also really drove home just how dangerous Carol has the potential to be, as we already know but the Alexandrians presumably don't.  She's so frail and unassuming looking and will absolutely play that for all it's worth while she's pumping the townspeople for information and mapping the community in her pretty pastel cardigan.  Right up to the moment she sets the whole place on fire if need be.

Edited March 2, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Anithe1]

I was hoping there was just enough truth in her lies to be convincing. I imagine she did clean, garden, and have dinner on the table by the time her Ed was home (if she didn't want a black eye or dislocated shoulder). She misses that stupid, wonderful man every day (emphasis on stupid, I guess - maybe she dug deep and remembered him being nice while they were dating). She did cook and do laundry and have few other useful skills, and was provided with protection (by an almost entirely different group). Then she was a den mother (teaching the prison kids survival skills). And she'd love to become involved with the community (so she can spy on Pleasantville).

 

 

[Constantinople]

Carol Peletier, President of the ZA Junior League

[NoWillToResist]

I kind of felt that Carol was overselling the smiley innocent persona a little too hard in her interview but I can't decide if I feel that way simply because I know that that isn't our Carol.

 

I would love it if her act was bought by the Alexandria people but I'll have a hard time believing that TPTB will let Carol be their saviour again.

 

I did think it was a good idea and it was consistent with her character (letting others underestimate her and use that to her advantage). I also loved that no one questioned what she was doing.

 

The conservative outfit may not have suited her as well as the garb we're used to seeing her (MMV of course) but I bet the blue made her eyes pop. :D

[nodorothyparker]

I didn't like the outfit either, which made it all the more hilarious that Daryl was laughing at how ridiculous she looked.

 

Carol Peletier, the one person whose wardrobe and personal style actually got markedly better as the ZA progressed.  If only she'd been able to do some of that all-important laundry.

[editorgrrl]

When Carol debuted the cardigan, she was in the shadows of the front porch—and it really looked like she had dyed her hair.

[tennisgurl]

So...I`m probably never eating cookies again. Thanks Carol. 

[CletusMusashi]

So, when Carol said she could turn invisible, I assumed she meant "metaphorically." But now that we know she's an actual wicked witch, I'm wondering if she just meant that the kitchen there had whatever spell ingredients she needs to become actually physically invisible.

She probably took care of the Unfair Wolves already. Remember all those frogs a few episodes ago?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Carol Peletier = Crazy Cookie Woman!

 

"How bad do you want cookies, kid?  Bad enough to possibly risk dying in the most horrific way possible??  Alright then.  I'll get a batch in the oven ASAP."  *motherly smiles and pinches kid's cheek*

[GreyBunny]

Carol's not having much luck with kids, is she?

When she offers you cookies, eat them and never EVER talk about it.  Ever.

Edited March 9, 2015 by GreyBunny

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Q:  "What traumatized you the most about growing up in the ZA, Sam?  Walkers/Roamers?  Having to be stuck somewhere for a really long time??  Not being able to do really normal kid stuff???"

A:  "Cookies."  

Edited March 9, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[nodorothyparker]

I think I forgot to breathe in the scene with the nosy kid.  She can really turn on a dime.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/08/walking-dead-star-melissa-mcbride-talks-about-carols-big-threat

 

I like her take on it.  Because it was like something out of the fairy tales, where the moral always was how these horrible things happen when you don't do what you're supposed to do.  It also made me think back to Glenn's line last episode about how they'd almost been out there too long.  She's been out there long enough to see really terrible things happen and knows what happens to children in this world if they can't be kept safe.  If the very worst thing that happens to Sam in the ZA  is that he was scared by the "cookie lady," he's still better off than every other child we've seen up to this point. 

[editorgrrl]

AMC posted a clip of the scene between Scarol (™ Talking Dead) and Sam:

Edited March 9, 2015 by editorgrrl

[ghoulina]

I like her take on it.  Because it was like something out of the fairy tales, where the moral always was how these horrible things happen when you don't do what you're supposed to do.  It also made me think back to Glenn's line last episode about how they'd almost been out there too long.  She's been out there long enough to see really terrible things happen and knows what happens to children in this world if they can't be kept safe.  If the very worst thing that happens to Sam in the ZA  is that he was scared by the "cookie lady," he's still better off than every other child we've seen up to this point.

 

I'm having a very Shane-killing-Otis experience with this - only at a much faster pace. Initially, I was appalled at what Carol did. I thought she would surely traumatize him, and how awful for a little kid to have to be scared like that. But, really, you're right - if THAT'S the worst that happens, he's off easy. This is the ZA. Carl was almost raped by a heaving, angry man. He had to shoot his own mother in the head after watching his sister ripped from her womb. He put down his "Uncle" Shane, in walker form. 

 

This aint an easy life, an easy world. The ASZhats have been lucky this far, but the other shoe is going to drop eventually. The children behind these walls have been pretty coddled. Maybe it wouldn't hurt for them to have a little bit of fear in them. Fear keeps you alert, sharp, on guard. 

[nodorothyparker]

I'm sure it also stuck in Carol's craw a bit that this child and this child's mother are so safe and complacent that he can go wandering around at night by himself and she was the worst thing he ran into.

 

Going by the rules in our world where presumably nothing will be trying to eat my kids and my son's biggest tragedy today will probably be that I won't make his favorite dinner but will make him do his homework, what Carol did is appalling.  But under the rules of her world and the stakes she believes she's dealing with, I can see why she did it.

[ghoulina]

But under the rules of her world and the stakes she believes she's dealing with, I can see why she did it.

 

And this is the crux of it, right there. I was looking at it in the context of my child and my world. But things just aren't the same any more. Kids NEED to be a little bit hardened in a ZA. 

[BrokenRemote]

I think I forgot to breathe in the scene with the nosy kid. She can really turn on a dime.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/08/walking-dead-star-melissa-mcbride-talks-about-carols-big-threat

I like her take on it. Because it was like something out of the fairy tales, where the moral always was how these horrible things happen when you don't do what you're supposed to do. It also made me think back to Glenn's line last episode about how they'd almost been out there too long. She's been out there long enough to see really terrible things happen and knows what happens to children in this world if they can't be kept safe. If the very worst thing that happens to Sam in the ZA is that he was scared by the "cookie lady," he's still better off than every other child we've seen up to this point.

This is my take, too. When he wasn't that much older, Carl had to put his mother down. This is a different world.

[Pete Martell]

Another Melissa interview. I hadn't seen as many details elsewhere about her efforts to not let Carol be killed off in early season 3. 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/08/the-walking-dead-s-wounded-warrior-melissa-mcbride-on-the-rise-of-carol.html 

 

I've gone on, and on, and on, and on so much about Rick and how much this episode damaged him in my eyes, yet I barely reacted to what Carol did with Sam. Either I just thought it made sense for who she is, or the Karen/David fiasco numbed me to a point where I can accept anything she does short of mass genocide of the entire group.

I also love this.

 

http://blogs.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/2015/03/bake-your-own-batch-of-carols-cookies-with-this-recipe/

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Despite everything we've seen, I honestly think Carol is the one who's the most unhinged.  And I love the way MM plays it.  Going with all the current meaphors and whatnot going on right now (on the show)... talk about a "wolf in sheep's clothing".  She's phenomenally portraying this character as 'well-cloaked but utterly off her rocker'.

 

I think after she got over losing Sophia, she just absolutely checked out mentally.  I know a lot of the characters have done some seriously shady and/or hardcore shit, but every next time she 'goes there', its even more insane and "holy shit!!!" each time it happens.

[nodorothyparker]

Thanks for that Daily Beast article, Pete Martell.  I've heard versions of that story forever on various boards since it seems to be a favorite of the character's detractors to insist that there was some huge nefarious plotting by McBride and someone to keep the character around past her original expiration date that other characters didn't also get to benefit from.  But I can't remember if I've ever seen her clearly address it herself.

 

I'm taking a wait and see on Rick because I think he's in the full throes of a PTSD breakdown with a full side of paranoia and can't really be expected to make good decisions right now.  Maybe it says something about me, but I'm honestly not that terribly bothered by what Carol did.  She didn't hurt or kill the kid and I never really believed she would because the show really couldn't go there unless they were going to commit to her going full villain.  Adults have been invoking the boogeyman to keep kids in line forever and I saw this as a high-octane version of it, which makes sense to me given her current mindset.

[Ocean Chick]

There's a new MMB interview where she explains "that scene".  Carol wasn't threatening Sam that she was going to take him outside and leave him to be eaten by the walkers if he told.  She was warning him that if he told, she wouldn't be there to save him from other people (ie: Termites) who could take over Alexandria and either eat the people themselves, or leave them to the walkers.  Because Carol knows the real monsters in this new world are other people.  The story she told him was basically Bob's story.  And we all know that Alexandria really isn't safe from other people, who could sneak up during the night (no one in the watch tower to give warning) and climb over the walls (using those support beams) and kill everyone while they sleep off their spaghetti Tuesdays.

[Nashville]

There's a new MMB interview where she explains "that scene".  Carol wasn't threatening Sam that she was going to take him outside and leave him to be eaten by the walkers if he told.  She was warning him that if he told, she wouldn't be there to save him from other people (ie: Termites) who could take over Alexandria and either eat the people themselves, or leave them to the walkers.  Because Carol knows the real monsters in this new world are other people.  The story she told him was basically Bob's story.  And we all know that Alexandria really isn't safe from other people, who could sneak up during the night (no one in the watch tower to give warning) and climb over the walls (using those support beams) and kill everyone while they sleep off their spaghetti Tuesdays.

 

Yeah, and my Bullshit-O-Meter just spun hard enough to rip itself right off the fucking wall.

[kikismom]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8459847680/h24535363/

[BrokenRemote]

I don't know. It kind of spins it more into Grimm's Fairytales territory. And it does make a kind of sense.

If not true, then definitely plausible as something Carol might tell herself to be able to sleep at night.

[CletusMusashi]

Buffy Summers no longer holds the record for Television's Most Infamous Cookie Speech.

Whichever writer came up with that thing should run the whole show!

About the speech itself, or, more accurately, about its effects on its recipient:

There have been some very valid arguments defending it. If that's his biggest problem, he's lucky. He needs to toughen up a bit anyway. If he's going to survive, he needs to learn that there are mean, scary people out there. And I'm not even sure that I disagree with any of these. But here's the thing that sort of bugs me: these are the same exact justifications used in real life, constantly, by abusive parents and by schoolyard bullies alike.

So why doesn't it really bug me? I think, ultimately, it's because they cranked it up to 11. You can't half-ass a scene like that. You have to go so far into it that the response of viewers isn't "Hey, that wasn't cool," but rather "Holy shit! That was amazing!"

To use a similarly disturbing subject as a comparison: the death of Buttons was disturbing. So was that of the horse that Rick Grimes rode into Atlanta on. But remember that scene on "Family Guy," where Peter was teaching Meg to drive? They ended up drag-racing an Amish guy, and the horse and wagon ended up going over a cliff. Not only did the coach explode just like an action movie car, but, a second later, so did the horse. If the horse hadn't blown up, people would have felt that the scene was somewhat tainted by (completely fictional) animal death. But once it did, the scene was so far over the line that it was just too zanily entertaining to be bothered by.

I think there is a similar dynamic behind my lack of discomfort with Carol. Plus, screw that kid! What's his deal, anyway, running around stamping A's everywhere? When the Unfairwolves come, what's that kid gonna do anyway? Stamp a bunch of A's next to the W's and try to make root beer? Tie the little shit to a tree, save on materials and baking time, and, afterwards, nobody will ever notice that he's gone. And you can have cookies. Lots and lots of of cookies. I know what I think you should do.

[kikismom]

Anyone remember Herschel's conversation with the Governor?

If you have daughters of your own, how can you threaten someone else's?

Because they're not mine.

[nodorothyparker]

I do think that's what she tells herself in the same way that Rick is completely fixating on the idea of how "lucky" ASZ is that they showed up to save them.  They're the good guys, more or less, so they have to have a good reason for doing what they do.

 

That's what I think is easily the most fascinating thing of all about these last couple of episodes and actually this entire season.  Our group is used to bouncing off bureaucratic cannibals and psychotic assholes with tanks where it was easy for them to identify themselves as the good guys and the hope of humanity.  If the ASZ really is on the up and up, our gang are the scary assholes who may very well end up destroying someone else's hard-won sanctuary.  And if not, well ... how dark can you go and still not really be a bad guy?

Edited March 11, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[ghoulina]

Yeah, and my Bullshit-O-Meter just spun hard enough to rip itself right off the fucking wall.

 

Haha, right? I mean, I get that that might be how Carol saw it, or maybe what she tells herself after the fact. But, really, how on earth would that kid know that's what she meant? If an adult is looming over you and saying you're going to be tied to a tree and eaten by zombies, you're going to assume THEY'RE the one who's going to be doing it. I mean, I don't really have a problem with with what she said, but....come on.....

[mandolin]

Anyone remember Herschel's conversation with the Governor?

If you have daughters of your own, how can you threaten someone else's?

Because they're not mine.

Book talk:

Since I've been skimming over the compendium again, Rick says that to Jessie and Maggie before they go outside in that scene we've talked about on the comic side.

Edited March 11, 2015 by mandolin

[Nashville]

Haha, right? I mean, I get that that might be how Carol saw it, or maybe what she tells herself after the fact. But, really, how on earth would that kid know that's what she meant? If an adult is looming over you and saying you're going to be tied to a tree and eaten by zombies, you're going to assume THEY'RE the one who's going to be doing it. I mean, I don't really have a problem with with what she said, but....come on.....

Exactly. Considering none of CDB has even brought up the Fourth Question ("Do you eat people? Because the last group we met fucking ate people.") or made any other mention at all of their Terminus experience to the ASZhats, how is it supposed to be considered reasonable to assume Little Skidmark here is going to take Carol's "tied to a tree and being eaten alive" bedtime story as referring to kidnapping cannibals?

Ridiculous.

MMB's simply playing spin porchdick -er- doctor.

Badly.

[Ocean Chick]

Haha, right? I mean, I get that that might be how Carol saw it, or maybe what she tells herself after the fact. But, really, how on earth would that kid know that's what she meant? If an adult is looming over you and saying you're going to be tied to a tree and eaten by zombies, you're going to assume THEY'RE the one who's going to be doing it. I mean, I don't really have a problem with with what she said, but....come on.....

 

I'm sure that's how Carol meant it.  But it was definitely shot for the ambiguity to show, so there would be controversy.  I'm sure Sam will tell someone what she said, and they'll view it as Carol threatening Sam that SHE'D do that to him, and it will lead to all sorts of trouble for Carol/Team Family.  We can't have our team just slip into Alexandria and fit right in and happy lives now, can we?  This is a controversial show that loves to get it's audience talking and debating just what is right and moral during an apocalypse.  What is the line between being Rick/Carol and being The Gov?

[kikismom]

Exactly. Considering none of CDB has even brought up the Fourth Question ("Do you eat people? Because the last group we met fucking ate people.") or made any other mention at all of their Terminus experience to the ASZhats, how is it supposed to be considered reasonable to assume Little Skidmark here is going to take Carol's "tied to a tree and being eaten alive" bedtime story as referring to kidnapping cannibals?

Ridiculous.

MMB's simply playing spin porchdick -er- doctor.

Badly.

Which reminds me; we also need to agree on nickname for the youngest boy.

I like your creatiion. We could call him Skidmark? Everybody?

[RainOnToosdays]

Which reminds me; we also need to agree on nickname for the youngest boy.

I like your creatiion. We could call him Skidmark? Everybody?

Oh, please no. I already detest the Father Pee Pants moniker, I don't wanna' see another pee/poo related nickname. [whine]

Nicknames of that genre sound like a third-grade playground taunt and this is such a great group, intelligent discussion, insightful comments, humorous takes .. I guess I just don't like the whiff of immaturity those type names exude. 

[kikismom]

"whiff" of immaturity?

You must be new around here.

:-D

Edited March 11, 2015 by kikismom

[AngelaHunter]

"whiff" of immaturity?

You must be new around here.

:-D

 

I love immaturity! It makes me feel young.  I love "Father PeePants" and "Sargeant Moobs",  and whoever made up those names deserves cookies..or maybe not.

[nodorothyparker]

Better cookies than being tied to a tree and left for dead.

 

I haven't been able to think of our glowing orange friend as anything other than the Heat Miser since the first time I saw someone make that reference in a live viewing thread.  I find I mind him a lot less if I think of him as a Rankin/Bass character than someone who's supposed to be an actual person.

[Nashville]

The two options I've been alternating between have been Skidmark and KPP, so I guess that makes me doubly immature.

Those, and Cookie Monster.

[kikismom]

Little Stamp Bastard.

[ghoulina]

I second Little Stamp Bastard. I'm not a paragon of maturity, by far, but skidmark is just a wee bit too gross for me.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Some Sam nicknames floating around inside my noggin.......

 

CCGYK = Cookies Can Get You Killed.

SDGC = Snitches Don't Get Cookies

Not A Tree Hugger

[BrokenRemote]

I've been thinking about something someone said (can't remember exactly where), wondering if it will come out that Carol scared Jessie's little brat adorable little moppet, and whether Rick would defend her.  And it hit me: Rick doesn't know what Carol went through to protect Judith.  She killed a little girl she almost kinda-sorta thought of as her own because it wasn't safe to have her around Judith.  And it would bug  me if Rick ever didn't stand behind Carol, with me knowing that she did that for his kid.  I personally don't think it's going to go down that way (kid telling and an angry mob coming for Carol), and if it did I don't think it'd be realistic, but it just got me thinking about Rick and Carol's relationship in general, and how he may never know how far she went to protect his daughter.

[editorgrrl]

I've been thinking about something someone said (can't remember exactly where), wondering if it will come out that Carol scared Jessie's little brat adorable little moppet, and whether Rick would defend her.  And it hit me: Rick doesn't know what Carol went through to protect Judith. 

 

Now that Tyreese is gone, does anyone but Carol know what happened to Lizzie & Mika?

[BrokenRemote]

I don't think anyone does.  I'm sure Carol is happy to keep it that way, because I think she feels a lot of guilt over it.  Didn't Tyrese try to convince her to tell the group, and she resisted?

[RainOnToosdays]

I don't think anyone does.  I'm sure Carol is happy to keep it that way, because I think she feels a lot of guilt over it.  Didn't Tyrese try to convince her to tell the group, and she resisted?

Hmm. I thought Tyrese asked/told Carol that "we don't have to tell anyone what we did/what happened right?". Something like that.  I remember thinking, what a putz, he's not even the one who had to do anything, he left it up to Carol to handle and thus have all the guilt, and now he doesn't want her unburdening herself to anyone because it would be hard for him.  And then Carol went through that phase at the church feeling like maybe she shouldn't be around anyone, and she wouldn't open up even when Daryl pressed her.