S06.E06: Dark Waters

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Quick question: Is there still a barrier around the town that prevents everyone from leaving?  I can't remember.  And if there is, how would Aladdin and Jasmine be able to leave to Save Agrabah (assuming they can find it.)?  Oh, that's two questions.  :)

[iMonrey]

Quote

It somehow cuts you off from the fate you are currently on track to.  Since Belle and their son decided they want nothing to do with Rumple, their fate is to go on living separately from him.  Rumple can't have that, and wants to cut them off so that he can have them both, consequences be damned.

That seems awfully broad. Nobody really knows what their "fate" is. Everyone has one, in theory, so basically the shears will alter whatever your fate might be. That doesn't mean it will be something better. For all Rumple knows he'll be killing his wife and son. 

I think it would have been better to keep the shears as a tool used exclusively to "un-Savior" a Savior, period.

[Mitch]

On 10/30/2016 at 8:13 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Major *facepalm* to Belle's ambiguity over Rumple. He just threatened her and she's still unsure about their future. I was so terrified that after Snow said "You hope?" she would give a speech about loving Rumple like she did with Stepmother!Regina. 

Those shears are just the Author Pen from 4B. 

Cora said: "You won't even notice. You'll be frozen, like all those in this corner of the land."

Like Rumple said to Regina in S1.."You brought us through time and space to be here.."then we find out in S2 that, no, the EF events that we have heard stories of, over at least 100 years, actually occurred in the 70s and 80s!!!Yes, even though it makes absolutely no sense.  But here they had to of course inert Hook into Nemo's story..even though it was not needed, etc.

[Camera One]

Considering we still don't know how being the Author works and it's been 2 seasons since that was introduced, I wouldn't hold my breath on mastering the specifics of The Shears of Destiny.

[Curio]

I doubt the writers even know how the shears work. It's yet another vague magical threat, kind of like the Apprentice's magical hat that aligns with the stars in the sky and the Dark Ones snuffing out the light. What does any of that mean? No one knows. For once, I'd like a straightforward magical threat that makes sense.

Also, congrats on this thread for already having more comments than last week's episode, even though it's only been a few days and last week's episode featured Disney Megastars Aladdin and Jasmine. I guess it really goes to show how boring they've made those two characters...

[vavera4ka]

On 10/30/2016 at 8:11 PM, snarkastic said:

So, I guess the show is going with the whole, people weren't LITERALLY frozen inside the bubble during the curse, just didn't age. But then Liam 2.0 is older somehow... ARGH! This show, I swear.

And I lolled at "Who are you?" "I am... no one." Because if Finding Nemo taught me anything, it's that Nemo means 'no one'.

lol I new it from Jules Verne so when I heard "no one" i was like oh hai Capt'n!

i gave up on continuity and aging long time ago so I really enjoyed the "under the sea" part.

everyhting else was meh. I was yelling at my TV when Belle was walking towards the pawn shop. I HATE that troppe... I was ready to put all of my strength and consciousness into not rolling my eyes. Thanks for not going there, show lol

[Camera One]

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JASMINE: But Aladdin... we haven't talked about what really matters... Agrabah.

So what DID you talk about?  How The Oracle was murdered?  What you were doing in the Land of Untold Stories?  How he ended up in Storybrooke?  How he "cut his ties" to Savior-hood?  The status of your non-relationship?  Your "job" at the school?  Why hasn't she told him what happened to Agrabah?  Why isn't she doing anything about it herself rather than sitting around reading a book?  

Edited November 3, 2016 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

How about how the hell she thinks Aladdin can save Agrabah if it's missing?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

everyhting else was meh. I was yelling at my TV when Belle was walking towards the pawn shop. I HATE that troppe... I was ready to put all of my strength and consciousness into not rolling my eyes. Thanks for not going there, show lol

The setup was so ridiculous that it would have been hilarious. If it they went down that road, it would have been even more ludicrously contrived than usual. I would have probably given a sigh of relief after laughing for a good five minutes. It would have put Belle's waffling in this episode to rest. But uh... nope. She's going to send him sonogram pictures while Regina sucks his face for a while now.

[Rumsy4]

59 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

How about how the hell she thinks Aladdin can save Agrabah if it's missing?

Yes??!

[Mitch]

What was with all those tropical fish...in Storybrooke????I could have bought it if a mermaid swam by..but..I know what they were going for but their easter eggs are getting so shoe horned in that they take you out of it all.

I was SO wanting Belle to walk in on the disgusting make out session, that would have made that ridiculous scene..even more ridiculous and fun.  Having Rump act like a nervous husband caught with the office hoochie would have been hilarious..."Belle, Belle..its not what it looks like!" EQ..."Oh it is, by the way, Rump, I want my gum back!" UGGGH...I love how they make their "super scary villains."..into idiots. What is with these writers in insisting on Rump as being sex god..at least to Mills family..(and I thought Zelena's make out session with him was gross, now this.) Was Regina watching too many soaps for 28 years so now she is imitating a bad soap vixen? What is next up her sleave...she is going to put a pillow under her gown a fake a pregnancy? And gasp..she wants Snow's heart... The HUMANITY!!!

I don't even know what to make of this Aladdin stupidity and the "shear's" or doom. We lost Hyde for this crap? When is that queeny villain from the Aladdin world going to show up. Is there one coherent plot on this show?

Edited November 3, 2016 by Mitch

[Rumsy4]

Belle should have totally walked in on that kiss. Cliched as it would've been, at least it wouldn't've been pointless as having Belle just outside the door during that time, but not witness it.

Gross as the kiss was, Belle has stated that she doesn't want to get back with Rumple. She's only rethinking his role in her son's life. I'm curious whether seeing EQ and Gold making out would have her running for the hills, or feeling jealous and wanting Rumple back. The latter seems more probable. Some amount of mixed feelings is natural enough, but it's not this huge betrayal the writers seem to be building it up as. Their marriage is paper thin at this point. I'm worried that this is supposed to be a lesson to Belle to not keep dangling the carrot just out of reach of Rumple for too long. 

[YaddaYadda]

The thing is, the way things went for Belle in that episode, she sounded done with Rumple. She just wants her child to have a different relationship with his father. 

Anyway, that's the impression I got.

[Rumsy4]

If that was the case, why have Belle sort of be there for the kiss? 

[Shanna Marie]

One problem with Belle seeing the kiss would have been that it would have made it even harder to buy the inevitable reconciliation. You'd think that seeing him with another woman, and a villain, at that, would be the final nail in the coffin. Yeah, she sounds done with him, but she also sounded done with him when she forced him over the town line and when she sighed about yet another betrayal when she thought he couldn't betray her anymore, and she not only got back together with him, she got pregnant. On the other hand, it makes it harder to stomach the inevitable reconciliation if we know something about their relationship that she really should know in order to make the decision but that she doesn't know. We're back to her marrying him when he proposed to her with a fake dagger and we know he's using her supposedly having the dagger and keeping him from murder as his alibi.

As for her decision about what kind of relationship to let her son have with his father, this isn't your run-of-the-mill irreconcilable differences divorce. She's leaving her child's father because he's evil, because he always chooses evil or power over everything else, because he had the chance to be good and chose to return to evil and power. If that's not good cause for terminating parental rights, I don't know what is. Why would you want your child to have a relationship with someone like that, especially when you know he lost his first child because he chose evil and power, and he clearly hasn't learned his lesson?

[scenicbyway]

50 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Belle should have totally walked in on that kiss. Cliched as it would've been, at least it wouldn't've been pointless as having Belle just outside the door during that time, but not witness it.

Gross as the kiss was, Belle has stated that she doesn't want to get back with Rumple. She's only rethinking his role in her son's life. I'm curious whether seeing EQ and Gold making out would have her running for the hills, or feeling jealous and wanting Rumple back. The latter seems more probable. Some amount of mixed feelings is natural enough, but it's not this huge betrayal the writers seem to be building it up as. Their marriage is paper thin at this point. I'm worried that this is supposed to be a lesson to Belle to not keep dangling the carrot just out of reach of Rumple for too long. 

I think it's a lesson for the audience more than Belle.  It's the writers saying, this is who Rumple is, stop shipping he and Belle.  I'm actually glad that she didn't walk in, Belle's finally made her mind up (for now) and seeing the two of them kissing would've reinforced that  but also given her an easy excuse for shutting him out.

[YaddaYadda]

11 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

If that was the case, why have Belle sort of be there for the kiss? 

But she didn't see it. She didn't knock on the door, look through the window or walk into the shop. She just slipped the envelop under the door and left.

[Mari]

The other problem is that it's TS, TW.  They could easily decide in an episode or so that Belle did see them, and that's why she didn't go in and reunite with Rumple.

Very little actually counts on this show.

[Amerilla]

With the caveat that it's TS;TW...Whether Belle saw/didn't see the kiss is irrelevant. The way the scene was shot, it tied the "reveal" that the EQ now has the shears to the sonogram picture.  For all we know, "shearing," the baby's destiny may involve something tangible, like a photograph. Even if it's not that direct a link, it's a clear plot link, because Gold's quest for the rest of this arc is going to involve getting control of the shears to make his plan (such as it is) work.

Having Belle do the whole "walk in on the misinterpreted/misunderstood kiss" trope would have thrown off the pace of the scene and taken the emphasis off the reveal. 

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

As for her decision about what kind of relationship to let her son have with his father, this isn't your run-of-the-mill irreconcilable differences divorce. She's leaving her child's father because he's evil, because he always chooses evil or power over everything else, because he had the chance to be good and chose to return to evil and power. If that's not good cause for terminating parental rights, I don't know what is. Why would you want your child to have a relationship with someone like that, especially when you know he lost his first child because he chose evil and power, and he clearly hasn't learned his lesson?

I agree. What person in their right minds would want Rumple as he is right now to be a parent? These writers are so infuriating with their emphasis on the importance of blood ties over every horrible thing a person does. Besides, I think information that her husband is snogging the EQ is rather relevant to Belle's decision whether or not to involve Rumple in the life of her child. Does she really want the Evil Queen as part of her son's family. I'm not saying Rumple is ready to start an affair with the EQ, but she could potentially harm the child if she thinks she is spurned by Rumple or the next time she wants leverage against him. The best solution is for Belle to go to a different realm without magic. Rumple will keep looking for her and the baby for another 300 years.

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One problem with Belle seeing the kiss would have been that it would have made it even harder to buy the inevitable reconciliation. 

3 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

I think it's a lesson for the audience more than Belle.  It's the writers saying, this is who Rumple is, stop shipping he and Belle.  I'm actually glad that she didn't walk in, Belle's finally made her mind up (for now) and seeing the two of them kissing would've reinforced that  but also given her an easy excuse for shutting him out.

Lbr. Rumbelle is by no means done with. This scene confirmed that for me. 

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

But she didn't see it. She didn't knock on the door, look through the window or walk into the shop. She just slipped the envelop under the door and left.

But there was still a juxtaposition there.

35 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

With the caveat that it's TS;TW...Whether Belle saw/didn't see the kiss is irrelevant. The way the scene was shot, it tied the "reveal" that the EQ now has the shears to the sonogram picture.  For all we know, "shearing," the baby's destiny may involve something tangible, like a photograph. Even if it's not that direct a link, it's a clear plot link, because Gold's quest for the rest of this arc is going to involve getting control of the shears to make his plan (such as it is) work.

Exactly my point. I agree that the writers are tying the "shears of destiny" to the sonogram, but beyond that, they are also tying the EQ's lust toward Rumple with Belle's on-and-off relationship with her husband. Just as she has some sort of softening feeling towards him, the writers introduce that stomach-turning kiss. 

[Shanna Marie]

10 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

The best solution is for Belle to go to a different realm without magic.

Neal's apartment is vacant (never mind New York real estate reality, it's already been vacant for more than a year, so it's probably still empty). Why not just go to New York, where even if Rumple goes, he won't have magic. If he wants to see the kid, it has to be as a normal human, with no Dark One magic.

And why is she still living on the Jolly Roger? I thought she was hiding there. Now Rumple knows she's there. It probably doesn't have running water or sanitary facilities, which I'd think would be important for a pregnant woman. I don't know what time of year it's supposed to be, but if it has heat it's probably just a stove, and there's no AC. The boat probably rocks, and I suspect that seasickness on top of morning sickness isn't fun. Surely someone in town has a spare room. Now that Hook's gone, she's all alone on a ship, and that doesn't seem good or safe for her.

[Rumsy4]

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Neal's apartment is vacant (never mind New York real estate reality, it's already been vacant for more than a year, so it's probably still empty). Why not just go to New York, where even if Rumple goes, he won't have magic. If he wants to see the kid, it has to be as a normal human, with no Dark One magic.

Except when magic suddenly works in New York. Zelena's magical pendants and potions seemed to work fine there. And Rumple was able to take magic with him to NY using the crystal dildo of doom. In all honestly, Belle can't really hope to escape his control. He'll chase her down no matter where she runs. And bring magic with him.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Amerilla]

Quote

Except when magic suddenly works in New York. Zelena's magical pendants and potions seemed to work fine there. And Rumple was able to take magic with him to NY using the crystal dildo of doom. 

....and Hook's magical-poison-dipped hook....and Hook's magically cloaked ship in New York Harbor.....and the magical memory-restoring potion for Emma....and the Flying Monkey boyfriend....and so on and so on. ..

[YaddaYadda]

27 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

....and Hook's magical-poison-dipped hook....and Hook's magically cloaked ship in New York Harbor.....and the magical memory-restoring potion for Emma....and the Flying Monkey boyfriend....and so on and so on. ..

The things we forget. The dreamshade, I can hand wave, even the memory potion because it's a potion. But the cloaked ship and the flying monkey, that's so much more difficult.

This is what happens when the writers suck at worldbuilding. Even their explanation in the season 5 finale wasn't all that satisfying.

[Mitch]

16 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

The things we forget. The dreamshade, I can hand wave, even the memory potion because it's a potion. But the cloaked ship and the flying monkey, that's so much more difficult.

This is what happens when the writers suck at worldbuilding. Even their explanation in the season 5 finale wasn't all that satisfying.

Did they explain in the finale. I just remember Rump saying "yes and no" to magic in our world and then Henry's Gosh Darn Gotta Believe in Magic Speech got it all going. But as someone up thread mentioned ...nothing counts on this show, its like a particularly campy fever dream.

[KingOfHearts]

The Dragon said something like, "There is magic on this world. You just have to know where to look."

[Mitch]

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

The Dragon said something like, "There is magic on this world. You just have to know where to look."

BWHAHAHA...quite the non answer Dragon..THIS is why nobody is watching anymore...it makes no sense at all, everything they put out there they later refute.

[Shanna Marie]

Something just struck me: there was all the drama about the "mysterious stranger" (Nemo) who was badly wounded, and would he survive, but they currently have at least five people in town who can heal anything with just a wave of the hand. True, Rumple would demand a deal and the Evil Queen would laugh at them. Zelena would probably be reluctant (though that might be a good way to make her feel useful and show her that she doesn't have to be wicked). But what was Regina doing during this episode? Emma was oh so busy giving Aladdin a pep talk. Either one of them could have been called to the hospital and handled it without Dr. Whale having to interrupt his drinking session. See, that's the problem with the super magical healing ability. It makes them look silly when they don't use it and try to create drama out of injuries.

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Something just struck me: there was all the drama about the "mysterious stranger" (Nemo) who was badly wounded, and would he survive, but they currently have at least five people in town who can heal anything with just a wave of the hand. 

Oh LOL.  I didn't think of that at all.  This show seriously messes with one's mind.

[legaleagle53]

On 11/1/2016 at 6:41 AM, Curio said:

Is Henry hung up on the fact that she'd lose light magic? But she never had light magic in Season 1 when their bond was the closest.

Not true.  Emma has always had light magic her entire life (its passive manifestation was what caused the lights to go haywire at Henry's birth); she just didn't know that she had it or learn how to use it until long after the original curse was broken.

[Curio]

43 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Not true.  Emma has always had light magic her entire life (its passive manifestation was what caused the lights to go haywire at Henry's birth); she just didn't know that she had it or learn how to use it until long after the original curse was broken.

 

I was implying that Emma's powers never fully manifested in Season 1, so Henry didn't know at the time she had light magic. It seems weird that he's so adamant now about Emma not giving up her Savior title when all he knew of Emma that first year was that she was a normal human who could apparently break a curse. Giving up a Savior title doesn't mean Emma would stop helping people, and it's really frustrating how the show won't allow the characters to bring up this obvious observation.

[Camera One]

It is an artificial way to build up the tension, I guess.   I wonder what the "lesson" actually is.  Is it that Emma remains a hero despite losing Savior status, or is it Emma needs to stay Savior because it's part of who she is and she needs to embrace it?  I anticipate it is the latter, since I doubt Emma will lose her ill-defined "Savior" status.  The show always reverts back to the status quo... Rumple becoming The Dark One again, Regina's Evil Queen ever-present, etc.  Plus the Writers think it's part of the greater theme that characters need to accept and embrace both "halves" of themselves. 

Edited November 6, 2016 by Camera One

[Dianthus]

Not that I'm any fan of Douchefire, but he didn't have any legal identity in the Lw/oM to find legit work. He could've taken some under-the-table cash only type of work, I suppose. At least Aladdin was in Storybrooke. Wouldn't he have some cursed identity? Or was it not the original curse that brought him to our realm?

[Shanna Marie]

To top off the "why didn't they just call one of the magical healers?" thing, I noticed upon rewatch that when Snow comes to the hospital, she tells David that she came as soon as she could. So, he called his wife to come to the hospital because of a mysterious badly wounded stranger. Why? So she'd be there to have a scene with Belle, I guess. But he didn't call his daughter, who has magical healing power. Wouldn't that have helped add to Emma's dilemma about being the Savior, if she used her power to save a life -- especially with it being Hook's half-brother's adoptive dad? (Assuming the magic is linked to her Saviorhood, and she'd lose it if she used the shears.) Plus, they could have added to that sense of threat for Hook and Henry if the magically healed Nemo had been able to say that Hook was in danger. Though I guess, depending on where that fell in the episode, would have ruined the big reveal about who the stranger was and how he was hurt, and who the "captain" Hook had to face was.

Another weirdness about 2.0's story about "growing up" alone on the docks in the week or so before the curse was that he at first talked about his family being taken away from him and wanting revenge on the people who did that. I guess that was misdirection aimed at the audience to keep them from immediately knowing it was Hook's brother because his mother died of an illness before Hook showed up. No one took his "family" away. They took his father away.

The physical casting for 2.0 was pretty good. The coloring was slightly different, but he and Hook have a similar body type, and I noticed in the scene where he's lying in the hospital and Hook is sitting beside him that they have similar facial bone structures. I could buy them as half brothers.

[Camera One]

 Though I guess, depending on where that fell in the episode, would have ruined the big reveal about who the stranger was and how he was hurt, and who the "captain" Hook had to face was.

That's the key.  As usual, everything is written around the big twist and that was it.  So all the usual misdirection despite making the characters' actions nonsensical.

[Shanna Marie]

17 hours ago, Camera One said:

As usual, everything is written around the big twist and that was it.

Was anyone really surprised by that twist? I figured the first mate was Liam from the moment he started talking about his background, even though his background didn't actually match the story, and from there I was pretty sure the man in the hospital was Nemo, because we'd need Liam alive and talking to have the inevitable confrontation with Hook. The only real surprise was that it was Liam who wounded Nemo, since that breaks the pattern of Hook doing something awful in the past that he needs to make up for now. The awful didn't come in this episode. Hook didn't betray or wound Nemo. It was Liam's thirst for revenge that was the problem in the past. That, and Nemo's really, really badly executed "let's bring the family together" scheme.

Because my brain apparently went into editing mode and wouldn't let me sleep last night until I'd fixed this episode, here's my attempt at repairs: First, the moment Lana starts using that baby-voiced Southern Belle accent, the director steps in, yells "Cut!" and says, "Um, can we maybe try something different with this?" Then, because we can't really go back two seasons and build up to Henry resenting Hook moving in rather than having spent the past season house hunting with Hook and then insisting on going to the Underworld to reunite Emma and Hook, we need to change the setup for that. So, after Emma takes off, Hook gets a call from Belle about something going on with the Jolly Roger that Hook needs to look at. Henry insists he'll be fine and tells him to go. Henry's heading out the door to go to school (yes, school!) when the Evil Queen confronts him and reveals the shears. Henry feels betrayed because he thought he could trust Hook and Hook obviously lied (but without any "you don't care about us" stuff, since that's rather obviously not true). Henry heads to the docks to confront Hook, where they're captured, and we get the scenario I mentioned earlier, in which there's a struggle and they're tied up while they have their conversation, though with less "you aren't a part of this family" brattiness. They get free, and Hook fights off the crewmen to allow Henry to escape.

Meanwhile, Emma's catching Aladdin stealing when David calls her to come to the hospital to heal the mysterious stranger. We don't actually see her doing this, just see Aladdin's reaction afterward (she drags him along). That adds something to their later conversation about running from fate and what being a Savior means. Emma doesn't want to give it up because it allows her to save lives (assuming the magic is linked to Saviordom -- we don't really know, do we?).

I'm not sure quite how to fix all the Evil Queen and Rumple stuff since it may be required for the ongoing plot, but the director putting a quick stop to the baby voice and bad southern accent would help a lot.

[YaddaYadda]

7 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Meanwhile, Emma's catching Aladdin stealing when David calls her to come to the hospital to heal the mysterious stranger. 

Why would anyone ask Emma to heal anyone when they know what's going on with her, especially after the insane effort it took her to heal Ashley. It's unnecessary pressure when Dr. Whale is there and has cleaned up his act. 

[Shanna Marie]

34 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Why would anyone ask Emma to heal anyone when they know what's going on with her, especially after the insane effort it took her to heal Ashley. It's unnecessary pressure when Dr. Whale is there and has cleaned up his act. 

Or they could call Regina. It just flows better into the "why still be a Savior" story if it's Emma, who seemed to get over her troubles with healing when she healed Ashley. It just seems bizarre to go through with surgery and life-or-death drama when there are so many people in town who can instantly heal with the wave of a hand. David called Snow to come rushing to the hospital, when she couldn't do anything. Why not call a healer? Even if Whale is there and doing better, it's still surgery rather than instant, pain-free magical healing.

[Camera One]

A magic healer also makes more sense in that case, since Nemo has been out in the forest for days now with a serious knife wound and I find it ridiculous he's still alive in the first place.

[Shanna Marie]

There's good stuff in this episode. I liked Nemo and the design of the Nautilus. I liked the follow-up about Liam 2.0. I liked Hook making amends, atoning, and taking responsibility. I also kind of liked the Charmings' and Regina's rescue mission to get Archie. But there's also a lot of nonsense.

I still hate everything about the Savior plot. The shaky hands look stupid, and since no reason for them is given, the whole thing is just silly. At least say something like the human body isn't designed to channel that kind of power for long, so it starts to break down. Otherwise, you've got to wonder why certain people are given this power that's useless when they need it most, but they're still supposed to sacrifice their lives to hang on to this role, and oh yeah, they're destined to die. Plus, half the episode is about Emma convincing Aladdin that he can still help others even if he isn't the Savior, and the other half is about how terrible Hook is for not getting rid of the thing that could stop Emma from being the Savior, even though that will save her life.

Shut up, Henry. If they wanted conflict between Hook and Henry, they needed to have set it up. The last time we heard anything about what Henry thought about Hook, it was when Henry insisted on coming along to save Hook from the Underworld (and he looked devastated when they learned Hook wasn't coming back). Before that, it was Henry talking about how he and Hook had picked out the house together for them all to move into. Now suddenly he resents Hook's presence. And even though he saw Hook sacrifice himself to save his family, Henry can say that Hook doesn't care about the family? Not to mention, Henry actually says that it's being the Savior that makes Emma special, like she isn't worthy on her own. Shut up.

Most of the episode was so contrived and sloppy. How did the Evil Queen know what Hook had done with the shears? The scene showing what Hook was doing was juxtaposed against her confrontation with Regina. The villains on this show are so randomly omniscient. I don't think Emma even mentioned the shears when the Evil Queen was posing as Archie, did she? So EQ somehow found out about the shears, found out that Emma had them, found out that Hook was supposed to dump them, found out that Hook didn't dump them, and found out that Hook hid them in the garage in a toolbox -- even though she wasn't present for any of these things, and for a few of these events, nobody at all was present.

Then we have Nemo so mortally wounded that he had to be taken to the Land of Untold Stories, but then he somehow survives days of lying in the forest in Storybrooke. There are multiple people in town who can magically heal, but David calls Snow to come to the hospital when they find Nemo. Unless Hook was somehow wearing his long pirate coat under his diving suit, he left his coat on the Nautilus. Did he somehow replace it during the curse? If Nemo took Liam away before the curse, then Liam didn't "grow up" alone on the docks. He was alone for maybe months. Not great, but it's not a lifetime, by any means. Sometimes I wonder if the writers even look at what they've written.

The Belle stuff is utterly frustrating, given that she mentions a number of perfectly valid reasons why she shouldn't have Rumple in her or her child's life, and we see even more happening behind her back

Spoiler

and yet we know she gets back together with him and they have a "happy ending" together in the afterlife.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Shanna Marie

[Shanna Marie]

Am I the only one still rewatching? Hello? Anyone there?

Anyway, something occurred to me ... the use of Pop Tarts as the thing for Hook and Henry to have conflict over is a good sign that they made no effort to get into the mindset of the character. An Age of Sail ship captain wouldn't sneer at Pop Tarts. He'd consider them an absolute miracle. Here's a fruit-filled pastry that remains fresh through an entire voyage, that doesn't get stale, moldy, or infested with weevils. He'd want to load the Jolly Roger up with cases of Pop Tarts. Understanding of nutrition is relatively recent, so he'd have no concept of "junk food." Coming from a pre-industrial society where food preservation was mostly limited to smoking and salting, he'd see preservatives as a benefit and a godsend, not as something that makes food bad.

But they didn't care about that sort of thing. They just needed an excuse to contrive enough conflict between Henry and Hook for Henry to be receptive to the Evil Queen's meddling, and they needed an excuse for Henry to be taking the trash out so he could run into the Evil Queen. In a way, this exemplifies so much that's wrong with the writing on this show -- they didn't bother to delve into the characters and situations they created and lazily contrived ways to bring about the plots they wanted.

[KAOS Agent]

Not to mention the idiocy of Hook using not getting scurvy as a reason to throw away the Pop Tart and forcing some other breakfast on the kid while there was a large glass of orange juice on the table in front of Henry. 

[KingOfHearts]

17 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Am I the only one still rewatching? Hello? Anyone there?

I'll probably join in by watching them in the background...

I feel like I give a unique perspective as the only one here who liked Regina at a point in time, LOL.

[Shanna Marie]

On 7/16/2019 at 3:04 AM, KAOS Agent said:

Not to mention the idiocy of Hook using not getting scurvy as a reason to throw away the Pop Tart and forcing some other breakfast on the kid while there was a large glass of orange juice on the table in front of Henry. 

Yeah, nothing about that whole scene made much sense.

And there's a pretty easy fix that doesn't contradict what's been previously established (that Henry and Hook get along pretty well and picked out the house for them to live in together). The "dad" role to a teenage boy would be something new for Hook, and not something he had great role models for. I'd imagine that as immature as he was in Neverland, whatever relationship he had with teen Bae would have been more like friends or brothers than father/son. His own dad bailed before he was a teen. Possibly the closest thing to a father figure when he was a teen, other than his brother, might have been the naval officer who got the brothers into the navy, and the way an officer might treat a boy he thought had potential would have been to make him work hard and be critical (but not cruel) to make sure he learned everything he'd need to know. So, I could imagine Hook going into that mode upon moving in, playing ship's captain and promising young recruit. That would have been different enough from the way Hook interacted with Henry before for Henry to start resenting him, even if he'd previously been okay with Hook moving in. For the scene in question, Hook could have decided that they'd get the house ship-shape while Emma was out, and ordered Henry to swab the deck, and don't miss a spot, and let's clear out this clutter and take the trash out. Then Henry might have been resenting him enough that he'd be at least slightly receptive to hearing what the Evil Queen had to say. It's not a massive reversal for no good reason on Henry's part, and it doesn't throw logic out the window the way the breakfast argument did.

Then we'd have to fix the rest of the episode and have more going on than Hook and Henry just sitting around and chatting after being kidnapped, before deciding they should try to leave and Henry remembering that he had something that they might use to escape.

[Camera One]

On 7/15/2019 at 7:46 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Am I the only one still rewatching? Hello? Anyone there?

I got tricked into entering Nemo's Nautilus and got stuck in the Land of No Internet Access for two weeks but now I will blend in like I was here all along, LOL.

On 7/17/2019 at 3:08 PM, Shanna Marie said:

The "dad" role to a teenage boy would be something new for Hook, and not something he had great role models for.

When discussing the arcs for the various characters in Season 6, this would have been a natural one, IF the show was as character driven as A&E claims over and over.  Henry doesn't need to go all "dirty pirate" on Hook for conflict to occur. 

[KingOfHearts]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

but now I will blend in like I was here all along, LOL.

That's what I've been doing!

[tennisgurl]

Like many Hook centric episodes, this has a lot of good things going for it, but its hampered from being a truly great episode by the shows greater faults. I actually like that, for once, the reason a famous character is acting differently than they normally do is given a reason instead of "because A&E dont care about source material" like usual. Granted, I would have liked to see more of the actual book stuff from 10000 Leagues, but at least it was different. And like in many Hook episodes, its funny that in his episodes, he has to actually try and make people with people he has wronged in the past, and it ends with a happy ending for everyone. But in Regina episodes, she whines about how its "totes not my fault" and everyone except the leads die and they all comfort her about how its still not her fault. Just...funny. 

I am truly shocked that they bothered remembering Liam 2.0, so momentary kudos to them for continuity! 

Spoiler

Of course thats hurt knowing he will never be mentioned again, because of course. 

Of course, the whole episode is hurt by, like I said, the usual issues with the later seasons of this show. Henry being all "my mom cant marry a stupid pirate!" is just so out of nowhere and stupid, and he comes off as a real asshole, especially after everything Hook and Emma  have been through and sacrificed to be together.