S07.E04: I Am a Storm

[Tatum]

10 minutes ago, dangwoodchucks said:

who sits down in front of someone's plate of food and just starts eating it? I also found it strange that Ian would be asking his teenaged sister, who has an infant, if she had some sexy times.

I wondered that too, on both accounts! If that plate of food had been ordered and abandoned by someone else, seems kind of bitchy of Fiona to make Debbie pay to eat it. And if someone was still planning on eating it, wouldn't she say, hey Debs, that's someone else's plate? Weird all around.

So Deb's midnight date regaled her with board game trivia? And everyone laughed, like it was just a normal boring date story and not a potentially extremely dangerous endeavor Debbie is getting herself and her baby mixed up in, posting suggestive pictures of herself and taking her baby to meet these men in the middle of the night?

[LuciaMia]

Quote

 On top of that, did Fiona even have a job in the first season?

Pretty sure she was a cocktail waitress in a club, along with Vee. 

[Dee]

Vee & Fiona didn't start tending bar and waiting tables at the club until Season Two.

During Season One Fiona mainly worked as a motel housekeeper in between temp jobs.

[Dee]

15 minutes ago, Tatum said:

So Deb's midnight date regaled her with board game trivia? And everyone laughed, like it was just a normal boring date story and not a potentially extremely dangerous endeavor Debbie is getting herself and her baby mixed up in, posting suggestive pictures of herself and taking her baby to meet these men in the middle of the night?

They're just following Fiona's example.

Offer no assistance and mockingly judge her then act mystified when Debbie lashes out in frustration.

[Emily Thrace]

I kept yelling at the tv for Debbie to go to the kids other grandparents. Realistically $375 is probably less then she would get if she took them to court for child support.  Depending on their income her baby daddy's parent could be on the hook for a lot more.  Which really they should be paying even if they don't want to see the kid. Even if they don't offer cash they might be willing to offer free babysitting so Debbie could get a job. I know they blew her off last year but generally its harder to say no to a cute infant that's in your face than Frank.

While I agree that Ian has definitely helped out a lot with his siblings I'm not sure I would say he's been a defacto parent to the extent Lip has. Some of its just that he has kinda been in and out a lot the last few seasons. And some of its just the natural sibling pecking order. I feel like Fiona is protective of Ian in a way she isn't with Lip. I think sometimes because he is more like Monica she see Ian as more fragile somehow. It pre-dates the bi-polar disorder so it isn't just that, although that's probably is part of it. (Looking back Fiona wasn't truly shocked though when he had his first major episode. I suspect like when Ian came out Fiona was aware of it on some level even if in this case she really didn't want it to be true.)  Lip got Franks indestructible cockroach genes so Fiona sees him as tougher and holds back a lot less.

[Tatum]

23 minutes ago, Dee said:

Vee & Fiona didn't start tending bar and waiting tables at the club until Season Two.

During Season One Fiona mainly worked as a motel housekeeper in between temp jobs.

Wait, was that when Fiona brought Liam to work with her and he was rolling around in the dirty sheets? Or am I thinking of another show? If not, I vaguely remember that now.

 

Lip can be a real arrogant jerk, but considering Fiona's work history- walking out on the computer training for that one job, paying her boss to work the club and losing money that night, losing her job at Cups- I can see why he doesn't think she'll really stick with anything long enough to make real money.

3 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I kept yelling at the tv for Debbie to go to the kids other grandparents. Realistically $375 is probably less then she would get if she took them to court for child support. 

That drives me crazy. Derek is still on the hook for child support whether or not he lives in the area, and a one time payout is not going to cut it. Yes, Debbie lied to Derek, but no one forced him to put the condom back in his pocket after Debbie lied and said she was on the pill. He should have worn it regardless.

 

Quote

Lip got Franks indestructible cockroach genes so Fiona sees him as tougher and holds back a lot less.

True, plus Ian is the only really nice one of the bunch. He was the only one nice to Sammi, the only one to show any concern over Chuckie, and actually went out and bought Mickey's son clothes, something no other Gallagher would ever do.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Tatum

[sazzat]

I get that it's one thing to sue for child support and another to actually receive it, but yeah, it does seem like she would at least go after Derek's family for it, and legally the father is on the hook (or his family if he's a  minor) regardless of whether he wanted to go through with a pregnancy, because the support is for the good of the child, not decided based on what happened between the parents. This wouldn't bother me so much if Frank hadn't taken Deb on a tour of the benefits system last season. It was a plot! So why is she without any kind of child support or state support now?

[iMonrey]

Quote

And again, this idea flies in the face of the entire history of the show. They've all been contributing all along; Fiona was never doing it alone and has in fact abandoned them once already.

It doesn't necessarily fly in the face of the entire history (although I agree continuity is not this show's friend). We've seen each of them contribute at some point or another, but currently, nobody was contributing anything except Fiona. 

And just because Fiona has been fine with their lack of contribution in the past, or has herself been lacking in contribution, doesn't mean she can't get sick of it now. Lip really stung her hard by insinuating he was the only one who ever had a chance of making real money. She read about that woman making a fortune without a high school education and she went on a self-improvement kick. Who knows if it will last or if it will work (probably neither) but I don't think it's necessarily a contradiction of Fiona's character. 

Fiona really tried to lay down the law with Debbie last season about having that baby and warned her she was going to be on her own. Debbie really expected Fiona to take care of her baby just like Fiona took care of all her siblings. Debbie's been getting a free ride since she had that baby. She doesn't deserve one.

(Mostly, I just hate Debbie.)

[Dee]

10 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Wait, was that when Fiona brought Liam to work with her and he was rolling around in the dirty sheets? Or am I thinking of another show? If not, I vaguely remember that now

Yep.

Occasionally, when she was working a double or couldn't find a babysitter she would take Liam to work with her. There were a couple scenes with her pushing him around in the motel's laundry cart.

Speaking of Fiona's odd jobs, Season One is also when she bartered her pee for free food.

[Dee]

16 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I kept yelling at the tv for Debbie to go to the kids other grandparents. Realistically $375 is probably less then she would get if she took them to court for child support.  Depending on their income her baby daddy's parent could be on the hook for a lot more.  Which really they should be paying even if they don't want to see the kid. Even if they don't offer cash they might be willing to offer free babysitting so Debbie could get a job. I know they blew her off last year but generally its harder to say no to a cute infant that's in your face than Frank.

There are/were deleted scenes between Debbie and Derek's Family from the end of Season Six.

Supposedly Deb reconciled with them, to an extent, but the show saw fit to cut the scenes for whatever reason.

[Tatum]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It doesn't necessarily fly in the face of the entire history (although I agree continuity is not this show's friend). We've seen each of them contribute at some point or another, but currently, nobody was contributing anything except Fiona. 

And just because Fiona has been fine with their lack of contribution in the past, or has herself been lacking in contribution, doesn't mean she can't get sick of it now. Lip really stung her hard by insinuating he was the only one who ever had a chance of making real money. She read about that woman making a fortune without a high school education and she went on a self-improvement kick. Who knows if it will last or if it will work (probably neither) but I don't think it's necessarily a contradiction of Fiona's character. 

Fiona really tried to lay down the law with Debbie last season about having that baby and warned her she was going to be on her own. Debbie really expected Fiona to take care of her baby just like Fiona took care of all her siblings. Debbie's been getting a free ride since she had that baby. She doesn't deserve one.

(Mostly, I just hate Debbie.)

Debbie is awful now. Back in the day, she used to be a pretty good kid. I really wish Fiona would have told her to pound sand when Debbie was caught shoplifting. She's been a complete bitch to Fiona for the last three seasons.

 

I don't have a problem with Fiona wanting to make something of herself and telling her sibs they need to rely more on each other and less on her. I don't have a problem with her expecting her siblings to financially contribute, especially since she told Debbie that Debbie couldn't live there after she had her baby, which she has since allowed. I just don't like the way she went about it. And I don't like her using the fact that she has the house in her name to lay down the law when the money was given to her by a sibling.

[stagmania]

5 hours ago, Tatum said:

I know she worked a lot in S2 and S3- the bar, that job she had shoveling septic systems, some kind of tax prep job- but I honestly can't remember her working in Season 1. What did she do?

As already noted, she worked hotel housekeeping, and did waitressing. I recall that scene of her coming home from the demeaning sports bar job that she hated doing and wiping away tears. And there was a whole plot at the end of that season about her taking a job with Jasmine's travel agency (she bailed on JimmySteve the first time to stay and take that job).

[snarts]

Why did Debbie stop running the in home daycare business she's had the last two summers?

[Dee]

Debbie stopped babysitting by the end of Season 3.

Once she became obsessed with boys, the only kid(s) she watched regularly was/were Liam and the twins.

[abstractstuff]

I remember the first scene or very close to it of the entire series being Fiona working at some food vending type place and hearing some bro's talk about how they have to wear two condoms with girls like Fiona, because of where she lived.. Now I want to watch the first season again. That was fun. 

[Dee]

That was from the pilot.

Fiona was filling in at a sports arena for a co-worker who's son had a bail hearing for getting caught tagging a cop car, with the cops still in it.

She found herself in a similar situation, later in the season when she worked at Sticks and Skates, that caused her to have a brief breakdown.

[abstractstuff]

Ahh.. Alright. Thanks Dee. Sharp memory. 

[dezi]

6 hours ago, snarts said:

Why did Debbie stop running the in home daycare business she's had the last two summers?

Pretty sure it was Fiona who screwed that up. After she almost killed Liam no one wanted to bring their kids over anymore.

[iMonrey]

Yeah - there was a scene where a mom didn't want to have the Gallaghers watching her kid because of what happened to Liam, so word eventually got around I guess. Then again it's hard to believe any of those parents were comfortable dropping their kids off at the Gallagher house even before that.

[LuciaMia]

Quote

of those parents were comfortable dropping their kids off at the Gallagher house even before that.

Truly. Every time Debbie filled up that definitely-not-a-kiddie-size pool, I got nervous for those kids.

[Dee]

Debbie wasn't even 13 yet. She was between 11/12 during her daycare years.

[whiporee]

1 hour ago, auntl said:

Yep, and Fiona slept all day, which I'm sure the poor patents didn't know. They thought they were leaving their kids with Fiona, not 13 year old Debbie.Typical Gallaghers.

Or you could say typical poor or uncaring people who didn't bother to put there kid in some place reputable, and instead left them with the Gallaghers. And you could say the Gallaghers were doing the best they could to survive despite being six kids abandoned by their parents, and gave those parents a place to leave their kids. That applies, too. 

None of the Gallaghers are villains. If the show has a consistent theme, it's that these kids are doing the best they can to deal with shit beyond their years. They make mistakes -- they fuck up a lot -- but none of the kids has just Frank-ed out and given up. They keep trying, and that's something redeemable in the show, warts and all. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by whiporee

[Tatum]

On 10/26/2016 at 10:56 PM, whiporee said:

Or you could say typical poor or uncaring people who didn't bother to put there kid in some place reputable, and instead left them with the Gallaghers. And you could say the Gallaghers were doing the best they could to survive despite being six kids abandoned by their parents, and gave those parents a place to leave their kids. That applies, too. 

None of the Gallaghers are villains. If the show has a consistent theme, it's that these kids are doing the best they can to deal with shit beyond their years. They make mistakes -- they fuck up a lot -- but none of the kids has just Frank-ed out and given up. They keep trying, and that's something redeemable in the show, warts and all. 

I think Debbie is a villain, honestly. Between raping someone who is unconscious and stealing high end strollers so she can pay a nanny to stay with her kid- she's well on her way. She is incredibly ill equipped to raise Frannie and there are other options besides stealing.

Debbie is nothing like the character she was in seasons 1-3, and I don't think it's just normal teen stuff. She has shown no remorse for what she did to Matt, and no remorse for what she did to Frannie- bringing her into this world as a ticket to the good life with Derek's family.

[Dee]

Debbie is the same character she's always been.

This is the same girl that stole a baby, premeditated, before she hit her teens.

She can't see beyond her own needs and feels no remorse for screwing people over, just like the rest of her siblings.

[ralph]

Debbie's young, but she shouldn't still be so impressionable and immature.

Edited October 28, 2016 by ralph

[ralph]

how is Svetlana's advice to Debbie about finding someone to take care of her and her baby any different than Frank's advice from last season? They both told her to use sex to find someone that she can manipulate into taking care of her.

[ralph]

The only thing I really liked about this episode was V and Fiona's fight. I liked how normal it was, Though I love their friendship and I hope it gets better, that was a natural thing. They're both too busy with the major changes in their own lives to be super involved with the changes in someone else's.

[WaltersHair]

I'm finding it harder and harder to like the show, but still, I watch

Svetlana is doing everyone's financial books and her dad is in town. Calling it. She and Daddy are going to skip town, take Kevin and Vee for all they're worth and maybe the kids too. Svelana is a cold, calculating person and learned it from her father.

I thought Vee and Fiona were equally bitchy. It happens. People's lives move in different directions. Being single and having friends that are married with children is near impossible, in my experience. All they want to talk about is the marriage and kids and the single person is fresh out of both.

Debbie has been the real Frank Jr. for about 3 seasons now.

[Dee]

Svetlana & her dad stealing the twins would be dark. Even for this show.

[WaltersHair]

That disappearing act felt like a dry run, but I could be wrong. She might take off and leave the other kid behind.

[Chaos Theory]

Fiona has never been lazy.  She has always had a job.  Hell there were times she had two or three at a time.  Most if it was min wage jobs though.  It was only in recent years did she ger higher wage jobs but she blew that when she....well Gallagherered it up.  I have no problem with her wanting to better herself and telling everyone but Carl and Liam to have others on their emergency list before her.   

[DrSpaceman]

Fiona for the past few seasons has hardly been paying attention to what is going on at home, so I found her speech to be out of place.  Between Gus and Sean she was not even living at home I don't think for a long period of time. 

Not that I have sympathy for the others, just the speech is not true.  Fiona seasons 1-2, it applied.  Fiona in the last few seasons, not at all. 

Plus her thinking she is some great business woman because of yet another illegal scheme for the restaurant is pretty screwed up as well. 

Ian is going to be messed up again soon between the alcohol and partying. 

Surprisingly Carl is the only one headed anywhere right now

And how does Lip get all these women?  His whole south Chicago, alcoholic, too cool for everyone schtick wore thing long ago.