Grimm Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Free]

13 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I recently watched the first season of "The Librarians" and they did a 'fairy tales come to life' episode (also filmed in Portland) that was really good. As I was watching, I kept thinking THIS is how Grimm should be written.  But then, it's done by the Leverage guys, so, yeah, I'm gonna love it even without Hutton. I kept waiting for Danny Bruno to show up, though.

Oh definitely, at least that's still a fun show to watch.  Both Grimm and OuaT to an extent have left me disappointed in shows like this.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Free

[TVSpectator]

33 minutes ago, Free said:

Oh definitely, at least that's still a un show to watch.  Both Grimm and OuaT to an extent have left me disappointed in shows like this.

I would add that AoS has lately disappointed me as well- like Grimm (there are so many wrong things with this show that I wish the writers would stop doing and at least have the series come to a half-decent close. Now that they are going to make Renard the big bad, I will just watch realizing that this is the last season and thankfully move on to something else. As with AoS, I do need to catch up on the few episodes that I missed this season but I am not in a rush to get it done. Ghost Rider, the Darkhold, Dr. Radcliffe- played by the amazing actor John Hannah- were all good but now that it seems like Ghost Rider is done, I might not come back- maybe for later but not right away). Maybe I will check out the Librarians. I still occasionally see promos for that show so I feel like it's still currently on the air. 

Edited December 27, 2016 by TVSpectator

[Darklazr]

http://www.tvguide.com/news/grimm-exclusive-renard-adalind-who-killed-bonaparte/

[OtterMommy]

5 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

http://www.tvguide.com/news/grimm-exclusive-renard-adalind-who-killed-bonaparte/

How is this a spoiler?  (No offense to @Darklazr...thank you for posting this, but to TVGuide.  This is one of the most underwhelming things I've read about this show).

You know, the fact that we are getting so little of anything from substance about this show makes me think that there just isn't much substance coming our way.  I have a suspicion that they are going to try to revert course to something along the lines of seasons 1 and 2 to get viewers back and then do some badly thought-out blow up in eps 11-13 that come out of nowhere to end the series.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

How is this a spoiler?  (No offense to @Darklazr...thank you for posting this, but to TVGuide.  This is one of the most underwhelming things I've read about this show).

You know, the fact that we are getting so little of anything from substance about this show makes me think that there just isn't much substance coming our way.  I have a suspicion that they are going to try to revert course to something along the lines of seasons 1 and 2 to get viewers back and then do some badly thought-out blow up in eps 11-13 that come out of nowhere to end the series.

LOL.  I found the TVGuide article at another Grimm site and did not see it posted here.  We all know Diana was the one that killed Rachel and had Renard kill the leader of BC.

[Free]

7 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

How is this a spoiler?  (No offense to @Darklazr...thank you for posting this, but to TVGuide.  This is one of the most underwhelming things I've read about this show).

You know, the fact that we are getting so little of anything from substance about this show makes me think that there just isn't much substance coming our way.  I have a suspicion that they are going to try to revert course to something along the lines of seasons 1 and 2 to get viewers back and then do some badly thought-out blow up in eps 11-13 that come out of nowhere to end the series.

They've been running on empty for this long, it explains why they dragged on Adalind/Juliette's plots.

[Darklazr]

14 hours ago, Free said:

They've been running on empty for this long, it explains why they dragged on Adalind/Juliette's plots.

It's too bad the writers did not bring in a consultant after they had Adalind rape Nick and that person could have helped them course correct the show.  Meh.  There are more than enough wishful thinking folks on this board that have come up with ways to extend the show and make it viable again!

[Free]

58 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

It's too bad the writers did not bring in a consultant after they had Adalind rape Nick and that person could have helped them course correct the show.  Meh.  There are more than enough wishful thinking folks on this board that have come up with ways to extend the show and make it viable again!

I know, and it only worse from there.

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, Darklazr said:

It's too bad the writers did not bring in a consultant after they had Adalind rape Nick and that person could have helped them course correct the show.  Meh.  There are more than enough wishful thinking folks on this board that have come up with ways to extend the show and make it viable again!

They didn't need a consultant.  They needed new show runners and a new writing room.  Instead, they gave the morons a development deal when they themselves basically said they had run out of ideas.*

*By this, I mean when they said they ran out of fairy tales.  Which, as anyone with half a brain, knows is utter bullshit.  But, more importantly, that's when they broke the contract with the audience.  This is a show about fairy tales/folklore/urban legends come to life.   You can't have that without the fairy tales/folklore/urban legends.  As soon as the K/G/C said that, NBC should have cut them loose. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by OtterMommy

[OtterMommy]

23 hours ago, Darklazr said:

LOL.  I found the TVGuide article at another Grimm site and did not see it posted here.  We all know Diana was the one that killed Rachel and had Renard kill the leader of BC.

My husband is worried that I'm going to make him watch this show again...

Anyway, here is my "out there, but these morons would totally do it" speculation.  The link says that Diana has killed before....I think they're going to make that Diana, not Kenneth and his people, killed Mama Grimm.  It's totally ridiculous, but it is totally what this show would do.  Why?  Because then they've exonerated Juliette/Eve, so that they can put her back with Nick.

I mean, I hope they don't do it.  It would be retconning at its worst--and, honestly, if they are going to do that for the purposes of reuniting Nick with Juliette/Eve, they really don't have to.  They've spent a season showing us that Nick is completely spineless and will forgive someone who tried to kill his aunt, tried to kill his girlfriend, gave his girlfriend amnesia, gave his girlfriend and obsession about his boss, raped his partner, raped him, caused puss-filled boils to break out over his friend's entire body and then followed that up a raging case of Pica, worked with the royals to capture him, tried to beat up in order to kidnap his girlfriend, and turned his girlfriend into a lipless witch freak.  Given that, forgiving the person who burned his trailer (yet anything they would need miraculously survived) and played a part in his mother's death and can use the "under the influence" excuse isn't a hard buy for me.  Especially since it would mean the end of Nadalind, and the end of Nadalind is the ONLY thing I'm hoping for this season.

[Darklazr]

9 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

They didn't need a consultant.  They needed new show runners and a new writing room.  Instead, they gave the morons a development deal when they themselves basically said they had run out of ideas.*

*By this, I mean when they said they ran out of fairy tales.  Which, as anyone with half a brain, knows is utter bullshit.  But, more importantly, that's when they broke the contract with the audience.  This is a show about fairy tales/folklore/urban legends come to life.   You can't have that without the fairy tales/folklore/urban legends.  As soon as the K/G/C said that, NBC should have cut them loose. 

I grew tired of Grey's Anatomy when they killed off Lexie and then Shonda Rhimes made the show watchable (at least for me) three years ago.  I am not sure why K/G/C did not have the will to make their little show so much more than rape and sleazy sexual overtones.  Blech.  Grimm was the little fairy tale show on a quiet Friday night that should have eked out a few more seasons in the hands of writers/show runners that cared.

8 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

My husband is worried that I'm going to make him watch this show again...

Anyway, here is my "out there, but these morons would totally do it" speculation.  The link says that Diana has killed before....I think they're going to make that Diana, not Kenneth and his people, killed Mama Grimm.  It's totally ridiculous, but it is totally what this show would do.  Why?  Because then they've exonerated Juliette/Eve, so that they can put her back with Nick.

I mean, I hope they don't do it.  It would be retconning at its worst--and, honestly, if they are going to do that for the purposes of reuniting Nick with Juliette/Eve, they really don't have to.  They've spent a season showing us that Nick is completely spineless and will forgive someone who tried to kill his aunt, tried to kill his girlfriend, gave his girlfriend amnesia, gave his girlfriend and obsession about his boss, raped his partner, raped him, caused puss-filled boils to break out over his friend's entire body and then followed that up a raging case of Pica, worked with the royals to capture him, tried to beat up in order to kidnap his girlfriend, and turned his girlfriend into a lipless witch freak.  Given that, forgiving the person who burned his trailer (yet anything they would need miraculously survived) and played a part in his mother's death and can use the "under the influence" excuse isn't a hard buy for me.  Especially since it would mean the end of Nadalind, and the end of Nadalind is the ONLY thing I'm hoping for this season.

We saw Diana kill Rachel with the bedsheets and we know she killed the head of BC.    I HATE when shows try and retcon their own BS stories.   We saw Juliette working with the Royals to take out the neighbors.  We saw Juliette in the house waiting on Kelly and Diana.  We saw Juliette do absolutely NOTHING to stop Kenneth from killing Kelly.  We saw Juliette burn down the trailer.  

Adalind should have lost Diana permanently either by death or never to be seen because she was raised by Kelly off screen! 

[TVSpectator]

1 minute ago, Darklazr said:

We saw Diana kill Rachel with the bedsheets and we know she killed the head of BC.    I HATE when shows try and retcon their own BS stories.   We saw Juliette working with the Royals to take out the neighbors.  We saw Juliette in the house waiting on Kelly and Diana.  We saw Juliette do absolutely NOTHING to stop Kenneth from killing Kelly.  We saw Juliette burn down the trailer.  

Adalind should have lost Diana permanently either by death or never to be seen because she was raised by Kelly off screen! 

1

Now, I really don't want the writers to retcon Kelly's death because that would imply that Diana killed the person that was raising her. 

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Now, I really don't want the writers to retcon Kelly's death because that would imply that Diana killed the person that was raising her. 

Exactly.  IF Diana was that powerful and self aware, don't you think she would have made sure to stay in Portland with her parents?!  Diana had no issues with Viktor and we're supposed to believe that she just left town with Kelly?

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

Exactly.  IF Diana was that powerful and self aware, don't you think she would have made sure to stay in Portland with her parents?!  Diana had no issues with Viktor and we're supposed to believe that she just left town with Kelly?

I think we're beyond spoilers now...heading over to the everything wrong thread...

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I think we're beyond spoilers now...heading over to the everything wrong thread...

LOL.  

[Prevailing Wind]

Didn't Diana also have something to do with getting Grandpa out the helicopter door?

[OtterMommy]

Just now, Prevailing Wind said:

Didn't Diana also have something to do with getting Grandpa out the helicopter door?

Well, she "foresaw" his death.  I don't think she had any control over Meisner being there and shoving him out.  But, who knows, they may just re-write it that it was all her doing.

[Darklazr]

15 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Well, she "foresaw" his death.  I don't think she had any control over Meisner being there and shoving him out.  But, who knows, they may just re-write it that it was all her doing.

Diana foresaw a death while in the car with Viktor and his henchman, which by the way should have been hers!

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Darklazr said:

Diana foresaw a death while in the car with Viktor and his henchman, which by the way should have been hers!

Yeah, but no death actually happened then (unless maybe some unnamed henchman?  I can't remember).  Viktor and Rizpoli got out safely (although Rizpoli did come to a messy end in the s4 finale).

[Free]

23 hours ago, Darklazr said:

I grew tired of Grey's Anatomy when they killed off Lexie and then Shonda Rhimes made the show watchable (at least for me) three years ago.  I am not sure why K/G/C did not have the will to make their little show so much more than rape and sleazy sexual overtones.  Blech.  Grimm was the little fairy tale show on a quiet Friday night that should have eked out a few more seasons in the hands of writers/show runners that cared.

We saw Diana kill Rachel with the bedsheets and we know she killed the head of BC.    I HATE when shows try and retcon their own BS stories.   We saw Juliette working with the Royals to take out the neighbors.  We saw Juliette in the house waiting on Kelly and Diana.  We saw Juliette do absolutely NOTHING to stop Kenneth from killing Kelly.  We saw Juliette burn down the trailer.  

Adalind should have lost Diana permanently either by death or never to be seen because she was raised by Kelly off screen! 

All that got retconned to force this show's painfully bland status quo.

[SimoneS]

It isn't a rectconn that Nick and Renard are archenemies rather it is returning to original premise. Before the writers wrongly did a 360 with Renard's character, he and Nick were enemies for most of the season one. Renard attempted to kill Aunt Marie, involved Adalind in his plot to kill Aunt Marie and destroy Nick, and was involved in criminal activity in Wesen underworld,  She didn't pop up out of nowhere. Nick just didn't know that Renard was the one behind it all at first. I am not sure why no one seems to remember this. Anyway, IMO, the show was ruined when they decided to turn Renard good, make Adalind a regular, and impregnate her everytime the actress got pregnant. However, it has lasted six seasons so they got rich. Congrats to them. 

Edited January 3, 2017 by SimoneS

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It isn't a rectconn that Nick and Renard are archenemies rather it is returning to original premise. 

It is a return to the original premise, but it is also a retcon (the two are not mutually exclusive).  They are ignoring everything that happened between mid-season 2 and the end of season 4 and I suspect there will be a fair amount of trying to "write away" things that happened during that time that make the current state of the show especially unbelievable.

(To be fair, Claire Coffee was only pregnant once, which led to Adalind being pregnant the second time on the show).

Edited January 3, 2017 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

It isn't a rectconn that Nick and Renard are archenemies rather it is returning to original premise. Before the writers wrongly did a 360 with Renard's character, he and Nick were enemies for most of the season one. Renard attempted to kill Aunt Marie, involved Adalind in his plot to kill Aunt Marie and destroy Nick, and was involved in criminal activity in Wesen underworld,  She didn't pop up out of nowhere. Nick just didn't know that Renard was the one behind it all at first. I am not sure why no one seems to remember this. Anyway, IMO, the show was ruined when they decided to turn Renard good, make Adalind a regular, and impregnate her everytime the actress got pregnant. However, it has lasted six seasons so they got rich. Congrats to them. 

I remember what happened in s1 and that Renard was shady, AF.  However, Renard was also trying to keep Nick alive and the two had their little love spat in s2, before moving on.  My issue is that from s2 until the last 2 or 3 episodes of s5, Renard had no issues with Nick and the gang.  Now, we have Renard ordering Nick's death for killing folks at the loft, when he had no issues with his own life being saved by JulietteEve!

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

It is a return to the original premise, but it is also a retcon (the two are not mutually exclusive).  They are ignoring everything that happened between mid-season 2 and the end of season 4 and I suspect there will be a fair amount of trying to "write away" things that happened during that time that make the current state of the show especially unbelievable.

(To be fair, Claire Coffee was only pregnant once, which led to Adalind being pregnant the second time on the show).

Ugh.  If they wanted tension between Renard and Nick, why not write a confrontation scene regarding Nick knowing how to contact his mother and Diana?!  Why not have Renard pissed that Juliette was able to summon Kelly back to town and Nick never once hinted he knew how to reach his mother?  Why not have Renard TELL Nick that he changed his mind and wanted his kid back?  Yes, I know it's the show runners fault that we have such a huge mess.

[Free]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It isn't a rectconn that Nick and Renard are archenemies rather it is returning to original premise. Before the writers wrongly did a 360 with Renard's character, he and Nick were enemies for most of the season one. Renard attempted to kill Aunt Marie, involved Adalind in his plot to kill Aunt Marie and destroy Nick, and was involved in criminal activity in Wesen underworld,  She didn't pop up out of nowhere. Nick just didn't know that Renard was the one behind it all at first. I am not sure why no one seems to remember this. Anyway, IMO, the show was ruined when they decided to turn Renard good, make Adalind a regular, and impregnate her everytime the actress got pregnant. However, it has lasted six seasons so they got rich. Congrats to them. 

Not really, Renard spent most of his screen time being shady on the phone talking to people while Nick was just working on cases.  Trying to make him the Big Bad is laughable given the lack of any credible buildup and they had 6 seasons to do so.

[ShadowFacts]

11 hours ago, Darklazr said:

I remember what happened in s1 and that Renard was shady, AF.  However, Renard was also trying to keep Nick alive and the two had their little love spat in s2, before moving on.  My issue is that from s2 until the last 2 or 3 episodes of s5, Renard had no issues with Nick and the gang.  Now, we have Renard ordering Nick's death for killing folks at the loft, when he had no issues with his own life being saved by JulietteEve!

I agree with this, and furthermore, Renard has (apart from the fact he sits on the phone most of the time) been interested in keeping a lid on criminality, keeping wesenality on the down-low, and, more or less, in basic justice.  So flipping him this way makes no sense whatsoever.  It ticks me off even more than flipping Adalind and flipping Juliette (and now flopping her back again, apparently).  Stupid stuff. 

[TobinAlbers]

A Question I Sent in to Ask Ausiello from 12/20 was answered:

Question: Any hope of Grimm‘s resurrecting Meisner and he and Adalind living happily ever after? —Nicole
Ausiello: Hmm, what to say, given what I know? How about this? The answer to your two-part question is no and yes — not necessarily in that order — and that things will become clearer in the first few episodes of the season.

So Meisner may not be dead or Adalind kicks the bucket and joins Meisner in the afterlife? Who the heck knows.

The problem with this show is what was pointed out above: It kept retconning/reinventing itself every season with regard to motivations and relationships and bad execution of decent story twists. It felt like that for each season they had a cool idea/theme they wanted to play out but they never fit into a large plan because the larger mythos was not fully mapped out.

But I do think Renard was always meant to be Nick's ultimate nemesis in the end. They just had to dial back on Renard's obvious evilness since they liked SR and wanted him more in the story rather than mustache twirling apart from the group. So they let him plead the 'My henchwoman Adalind went too far, it's all on HER!' and he and Nick entered into a 'enemy of my enemy is my friend - for now' in S1. They had a mutual goal in S1-3 of ousting Renard's dad and taking down his cousins, uncles, half-brothers, etc. and supporters because it protected both of them. It was in Renard's interest to support and protect Nick because he's a Grimm unofficially 'in service to him' but when/if that came at odds with what we knew was also a motivation for him the quest of power and regaining the title and status from his father and half brothers you knew in Renard's mind that if he had to break the pact and make Nick an enemy that he would.  Nick assumed that because Renard was with him now, he'd always be on his side. Renard played nice as long as it suited him and never burned his bridges on either side, but once the line to power was open to him, he took it and the fact that Renard had been an 'inside guy' with TeamGrimm for so long just allowed him to be able to pinpoint Nick's weaknesses all the better to strike.

Actually, when you think about it, it may not have been planned that way, but if this was S1 Renard's plan all along or an amazing change of play at the line of scrimmage - to make Adalind the scapegoat in order for him to gain Team Grimm's trust so as to infiltrate - it's a brilliant move worthy of an archenemy. But I think I'm giving the writers too much credit.

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

A Question I Sent in to Ask Ausiello from 12/20 was answered:

Question: Any hope of Grimm‘s resurrecting Meisner and he and Adalind living happily ever after? —Nicole
Ausiello: Hmm, what to say, given what I know? How about this? The answer to your two-part question is no and yes — not necessarily in that order — and that things will become clearer in the first few episodes of the season.

So Meisner may not be dead or Adalind kicks the bucket and joins Meisner in the afterlife? Who the heck knows.

 

Thank you for the scoop!  I know that Adalind is in the show as far as the second to last episode (I thought they had finished filming the season, but apparently they start with the finale either today or soon), so she doesn't go to the afterlife in the first few episodes.  I haven't seen anything indicating that Damien Puckler is in the show anymore, but they did a fairly good job of hiding Elizabeth Tulloch for the first part of season 5--and she would be much harder to keep out of the limelight, so who knows.

Quote

 

The problem with this show is what was pointed out above: It kept retconning/reinventing itself every season with regard to motivations and relationships and bad execution of decent story twists. It felt like that for each season they had a cool idea/theme they wanted to play out but they never fit into a large plan because the larger mythos was not fully mapped out.

But I do think Renard was always meant to be Nick's ultimate nemesis in the end. They just had to dial back on Renard's obvious evilness since they liked SR and wanted him more in the story rather than mustache twirling apart from the group. So they let him plead the 'My henchwoman Adalind went too far, it's all on HER!' and he and Nick entered into a 'enemy of my enemy is my friend - for now' in S1. They had a mutual goal in S1-3 of ousting Renard's dad and taking down his cousins, uncles, half-brothers, etc. and supporters because it protected both of them. It was in Renard's interest to support and protect Nick because he's a Grimm unofficially 'in service to him' but when/if that came at odds with what we knew was also a motivation for him the quest of power and regaining the title and status from his father and half brothers you knew in Renard's mind that if he had to break the pact and make Nick an enemy that he would.  Nick assumed that because Renard was with him now, he'd always be on his side. Renard played nice as long as it suited him and never burned his bridges on either side, but once the line to power was open to him, he took it and the fact that Renard had been an 'inside guy' with TeamGrimm for so long just allowed him to be able to pinpoint Nick's weaknesses all the better to strike

 

I agree with all of this, but there is one side of the mess that you didn't address.  Nick.  Why did Nick ever trust Renard?  He knew what Renard was and what his ties were, but he still seemed okay with all of it, even when he said he didn't.  You can draw this out more and wonder why Monroe and Rosalee trusted Renard as well--they were much better acquainted with the Biest/Royal world than Nick, but they never really blinked an eyelash.  Heh...but then again they all forgave Adalind without a second thought.  

If Renard were always meant to be the villain, I can see how the blind (and stupid) trust could work in the story arc, but only if they actually made Renard a villain--and they didn't do that.  They redeemed him, sort of, and made him at the very least benign, if not a good guy.  So now we have all these random pieces of things that could have worked, but just don't fit together.

Changing gears a bit....my guess is that there is going to be a bloodbath to end this show, so I'm trying to guess who will survive and who won't.  I would put money on Renard being dead and Rosalee surviving (because they won't kill a pregnant woman.  If they would, they would've killed Adalind....), but I'm not sure about anyone else.....thoughts?

[TobinAlbers]

2 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I agree with all of this, but there is one side of the mess that you didn't address.  Nick.  Why did Nick ever trust Renard?  He knew what Renard was and what his ties were, but he still seemed okay with all of it, even when he said he didn't.  You can draw this out more and wonder why Monroe and Rosalee trusted Renard as well--they were much better acquainted with the Biest/Royal world than Nick, but they never really blinked an eyelash.  Heh...but then again they all forgave Adalind without a second thought.  

Exactly. Nick, Rosalee, and Monroe all trusting Renard and Adalind is literally all for sake of the new season's 'reboot' for the plot they want to push for that particular season, emotional baggage from the previous season be damned.

S2 they wanted Renard as part of Team Grimm so they had Rosalee and Monroe voice some concern initially and then when Renard proved himself, back off and embrace him. Nick was put into the position of having to trust him as he knew how to save Juliette -even though he was partly the reason WHY she was in that coma - and once he proved himself, Nick begrudgingly partnered with him until he basically forgot that he has legit reason to hate Renard.

S5 they want Nadalind and baby makes three so they had Monroe and Rosalee voice some concern initially, then back off basically for the baby's sake. Nick once again was emotionally at her mercy due to Kelly being his son and Adalind as part of the package. Then TPTB just glossed over Nick developing feelings because this was the plot they wanted to tell.

In Renard's case they showed more than they 'telled' in why they should trust him, Adalind, I felt they showed in regards to Diana and Meisner how they could work as a family but not in regards to how Adalind had 'changed' to no longer be a threat to Nick. 

Nick should've been in DGAF mode after losing Juliette and his mother in such brutal fashion and not given any craps about Adalind and Kelly in his grief and just been a loose canon 'old school kill them all' Grimm in 5A with him hitting rock bottom to have to rebuild his life in 5B.  In a better written show it should've taken a minimum of a half season for him to come around to co-parenting with Adalind and even then the relationship be REALLY tense with you not knowing if either Nick or Adalind would double cross each other first chance they got or try to do what was best for Kelly. AND if Nick had made some new powerful enemies in 5A during his grief period that then made it that HE had to do what his mother did and send Kelly and Adalind into hiding just as he was enjoying being a dad or for added irony, Adalind takes their child and runs in order to protect it, she'd have gotten her revenge on Nick doing to him what he did to her even as she was doing the right thing to run away to protect his kid.

But this show isn't that deep.

As for who will live or die?

Dead: Renard, Adalind,

Alive: Rosalee, Monroe, Trubel, Diana, Juliette

MIA: Nick

I think Nick will be presumed dead in the final battle with Juliette raising Kelly.

Someone (anyone's guess) will close the show writing in a Grimm journal that covers the story of Nick Burkhardt.

[OtterMommy]

57 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Exactly. Nick, Rosalee, and Monroe all trusting Renard and Adalind is literally all for sake of the new season's 'reboot' for the plot they want to push for that particular season, emotional baggage from the previous season be damned.

S2 they wanted Renard as part of Team Grimm so they had Rosalee and Monroe voice some concern initially and then when Renard proved himself, back off and embrace him. Nick was put into the position of having to trust him as he knew how to save Juliette -even though he was partly the reason WHY she was in that coma - and once he proved himself, Nick begrudgingly partnered with him until he basically forgot that he has legit reason to hate Renard.

S5 they want Nadalind and baby makes three so they had Monroe and Rosalee voice some concern initially, then back off basically for the baby's sake. Nick once again was emotionally at her mercy due to Kelly being his son and Adalind as part of the package. Then TPTB just glossed over Nick developing feelings because this was the plot they wanted to tell.

In Renard's case they showed more than they 'telled' in why they should trust him, Adalind, I felt they showed in regards to Diana and Meisner how they could work as a family but not in regards to how Adalind had 'changed' to no longer be a threat to Nick. 

Nick should've been in DGAF mode after losing Juliette and his mother in such brutal fashion and not given any craps about Adalind and Kelly in his grief and just been a loose canon 'old school kill them all' Grimm in 5A with him hitting rock bottom to have to rebuild his life in 5B.  In a better written show it should've taken a minimum of a half season for him to come around to co-parenting with Adalind and even then the relationship be REALLY tense with you not knowing if either Nick or Adalind would double cross each other first chance they got or try to do what was best for Kelly. AND if Nick had made some new powerful enemies in 5A during his grief period that then made it that HE had to do what his mother did and send Kelly and Adalind into hiding just as he was enjoying being a dad or for added irony, Adalind takes their child and runs in order to protect it, she'd have gotten her revenge on Nick doing to him what he did to her even as she was doing the right thing to run away to protect his kid.

But this show isn't that deep.

As for who will live or die?

Dead: Renard, Adalind,

Alive: Rosalee, Monroe, Trubel, Diana, Juliette

MIA: Nick

I think Nick will be presumed dead in the final battle with Juliette raising Kelly.

Someone (anyone's guess) will close the show writing in a Grimm journal that covers the story of Nick Burkhardt.

First off, I love your analysis of how the show has gone so far.  It does kind of feel that they try to do a new show every season (even going so far as to write a letter to viewers at the beginning of season 5, basically telling everyone to just forget about all that has happened).  That works well with different shows--Fargo, for example.  But, with that show, the story telling is very focused and each season is its own story--there is only the barest of carry over to tie one season to the next.  It doesn't work with an episodic police procedural that went off the rails.

As for your dead and alive list, I like your ending.  I do think that Trubel may be dead, and long before the finale.  She is basically out of the show after the 2nd or 3rd episode (based on social media where JT was very clearly in California during the filming of all those episodes. JT did show up back in PDX before the filming of the 2nd to last episode, but that was also coincided with a social event (which JT attended) and, while she did do some press stuff with the rest of the crew at that time, it doesn't look like she was involved in any actual filming (again, based on what was posted on social media).

I also think that Monroe, Hank, or Wu are going to have to die.  I think there needs to be some sort of great cost to Nick (if he survives).  Of the three, I'm sorry to say, I think Monroe is the most likely.  

There is speculation in other places that Nick is to die...which, I guess I can see, but I don't think it is likely.  Honestly, with K/G/C, I think they want to keep their options open and, by definitively killing Nick, they've pretty much shut the book on things.  Also, and I doubt this comes into play because the writers/show runners are idiots, but the structure of Grimm--or at least how they initially presented it--is a fairy tale.  And fairy tales generally have happy endings and the hero or heroine of the fairy tale generally doesn't die (it happens sometimes, but not usually).  If we are to expect some sort of intelligent story telling out of season 6 (Ha ha!  I crack myself up), that would call for Nick's survival.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Changing gears a bit....my guess is that there is going to be a bloodbath to end this show, so I'm trying to guess who will survive and who won't.  I would put money on Renard being dead and Rosalee surviving (because they won't kill a pregnant woman.  If they would, they would've killed Adalind....), but I'm not sure about anyone else.....thoughts?

I think if Adalind dies, Nick lives so baby Kelly is not orphaned.  I suppose Rosalee and Monroe could raise him along with their own.  They could probably handle that.  But I would want Nick to survive, he is the Grimm.  He would not want to have Kelly grow up without a parent the way he did, so they can depart Portland, go into hiding, fill in the blank after Renard is defeated and Black Claw is somehow beaten back.  Bud can help direct him to the underground eisbieber railroad.  I suppose Hank or Wu will be casualties.  I just don't know about Juliette.  She probably makes a sacrifice of some kind to protect Kelly and Nick.  I am going to miss Hank, Bud and Wu the most because their characters are sort of lovable to begin with, and haven't been mangled too much in the writing. 

[neuromom]

Omg! This just posted as a header in the Grimm FB page : "Magic sticks and Wesen babies and time jumps! Oh my!"

Weve already seen the first two. The way the writers have rolled those out have been insanely stupid. 

So..time jumps? TIME JUMPS!?   What the actual f***! I HATE time jumps. 

Even the best of shows can royally screw up a time jump.

abd this is nowhere near the "best of shows"

Well, damn...there goes my last shred of hope...

Ive got my vodka ready for Friday..,let the inevitable train wreck begin....

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, neuromom said:

Omg! This just posted as a header in the Grimm FB page : "Magic sticks and Wesen babies and time jumps! Oh my!"

Weve already seen the first two. The way the writers have rolled those out have been insanely stupid. 

So..time jumps? TIME JUMPS!?   What the actual f***! I HATE time jumps. 

Even the best of shows can royally screw up a time jump.

abd this is nowhere near the "best of shows"

Well, damn...there goes my last shred of hope...

Ive got my vodka ready for Friday..,let the inevitable train wreck begin....

Here's the article:

http://tvline.com/2016/12/29/grimm-final-season-6-spoilers-rosalee-baby/

DG calls it "the Oregon, death-with-dignity, kind-of-our-hospice run."  Take THAT how you will!

Also interesting that K/G/C pretty much admit that they barely had it in them for 13 episodes.  Sigh....

[TobinAlbers]

37 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I do think that Trubel may be dead, and long before the finale.  She is basically out of the show after the 2nd or 3rd episode (based on social media where JT was very clearly in California during the filming of all those episodes. JT did show up back in PDX before the filming of the 2nd to last episode, but that was also coincided with a social event (which JT attended) and, while she did do some press stuff with the rest of the crew at that time, it doesn't look like she was involved in any actual filming (again, based on what was posted on social media).

The main reason I think Trubel makes it is she's the hope of an immediate Grimm spin-off set anywhere TPTB want unless the potential spin-off is for a show set in the future with Grimm-Hexen Kelly kicking ass and taking names.

This show would have some balls to kill Monroe or Rosalee. Wu, Hank, even Bud I can see biting it. Monroe is the obvious one to make the grand sacrifice but I think it'll be a bait and switch with someone else taking the figurative bullet. I will laugh if it's Adalind and Monrosalee end up naming their kid after her. Since they have a boy baby with Nick, baby Monrosalee is bound to be a girl.

I don't see both Juliette and Adalind living. Adalind only survives if they give her a bittersweet ending and mindwipe her to forget her kids so they can go their separate ways or put her in a coma where she's not dead but she's gotten her karma for putting the sleeping curse on Juliette.  And that works for if they ever do a spin-off for Kelly and/or Diana finally figure out how to wake her up and are reunited with her finally. Juliette I think has to live and be happy since she's the show's heroine.

And Grimm fairy tales were actually pretty damn grim, LOL, but I can see the show splitting the difference and go for bittersweet with Nick being presumed dead and Kelly being raised by Juliette but we see something that shows he's not dead but working in the shadows as a 'creature that goes bump in the night for bad wesen' and keeping an eye on Kelly and Juliette from afar.

The only way I can see Nick living happily ever after is if he's presumed dead and goes into hiding with Kelly and Juliette abdicating his duties to Trubel so he can finally have a normal life and be there for his son.

And now that I think about it, the cute ending will be Rosalee or Monroe telling their kid a Grimm fairy tale from a 'storybook' aka Nick's Grimm journal but they aren't afraid because they know Uncle Nick's a Grimm and that he protects everyone from bad wesen and bad people.

[OtterMommy]

10 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

I don't see both Juliette and Adalind living. Adalind only survives if they give her a bittersweet ending and mindwipe her to forget her kids so they can go their separate ways or put her in a coma where she's not dead but she's gotten her karma for putting the sleeping curse on Juliette.  And that works for if they ever do a spin-off for Kelly and/or Diana finally figure out how to wake her up and are reunited with her finally. Juliette I think has to live and be happy since she's the show's heroine.

Oh, I agree it will either be Juliette and Adalind who live, but not both (but possibly neither).  Personally, I think it will be Juliette who survives, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part (because of Nadalind...I just want that GONE...).  The article @neuromom posted above sounds like the whole season is going to be a shit show and that the weird time jumps will happen mid-season or something like that.  It sounds like, and I could be wrong, that the Grimm time between s6e1 and s6e13 is about 6 weeks, but we jump ahead here and there in the meantime.  Coupled with the fact that the writers once again admit that they ran out of ideas, I'm torn between being scared to death and wanting to stock up on booze and popcorn to watch the trainwreck...

Quote

And Grimm fairy tales were actually pretty damn grim, LOL, but I can see the show splitting the difference and go for bittersweet with Nick being presumed dead and Kelly being raised by Juliette but we see something that shows he's not dead but working in the shadows as a 'creature that goes bump in the night for bad wesen' and keeping an eye on Kelly and Juliette from afar.

Grimm fairy tales were grim, but they usually ended up with the villains getting what is coming to them and the hero living an improved life.  Well, except for that one where the stepmom kills the boy (the hero) and then feeds him to the father and then the boy turns into a bird and imparts wisdom.  THAT was a fairy tale I would have liked to see them try to turn into an episode!

[ShadowFacts]

Actors always go hyperbolic about these things, but Silas Weir Mitchell swears that long-time viewers will be happy, so I'm a little hopeful.  However a time jump at the end, not so fond of that.  I'm now thinking a Nick/Juliette offspring will be in play.

[OtterMommy]

So about my Trubel predictions...after I typed that ET posted a pic from the set with JT, so it looks like I was wrong.  So, unless we're dealing with a time jump in the past, it looks like she's at least alive at some point in the last episode.

[Darklazr]

6 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

A Question I Sent in to Ask Ausiello from 12/20 was answered:

Question: Any hope of Grimm‘s resurrecting Meisner and he and Adalind living happily ever after? —Nicole
Ausiello: Hmm, what to say, given what I know? How about this? The answer to your two-part question is no and yes — not necessarily in that order — and that things will become clearer in the first few episodes of the season.

So Meisner may not be dead or Adalind kicks the bucket and joins Meisner in the afterlife? Who the heck knows.

The problem with this show is what was pointed out above: It kept retconning/reinventing itself every season with regard to motivations and relationships and bad execution of decent story twists. It felt like that for each season they had a cool idea/theme they wanted to play out but they never fit into a large plan because the larger mythos was not fully mapped out.

But I do think Renard was always meant to be Nick's ultimate nemesis in the end. They just had to dial back on Renard's obvious evilness since they liked SR and wanted him more in the story rather than mustache twirling apart from the group. So they let him plead the 'My henchwoman Adalind went too far, it's all on HER!' and he and Nick entered into a 'enemy of my enemy is my friend - for now' in S1. They had a mutual goal in S1-3 of ousting Renard's dad and taking down his cousins, uncles, half-brothers, etc. and supporters because it protected both of them. It was in Renard's interest to support and protect Nick because he's a Grimm unofficially 'in service to him' but when/if that came at odds with what we knew was also a motivation for him the quest of power and regaining the title and status from his father and half brothers you knew in Renard's mind that if he had to break the pact and make Nick an enemy that he would.  Nick assumed that because Renard was with him now, he'd always be on his side. Renard played nice as long as it suited him and never burned his bridges on either side, but once the line to power was open to him, he took it and the fact that Renard had been an 'inside guy' with TeamGrimm for so long just allowed him to be able to pinpoint Nick's weaknesses all the better to strike.

Actually, when you think about it, it may not have been planned that way, but if this was S1 Renard's plan all along or an amazing change of play at the line of scrimmage - to make Adalind the scapegoat in order for him to gain Team Grimm's trust so as to infiltrate - it's a brilliant move worthy of an archenemy. But I think I'm giving the writers too much credit.

Wow.  An excellent analysis of the show, when it looked like the writers were throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks.

However, if Renard truly wanted to be Mayor, he could have done that on his own without BC.

[Darklazr]

3 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Here's the article:

http://tvline.com/2016/12/29/grimm-final-season-6-spoilers-rosalee-baby/

DG calls it "the Oregon, death-with-dignity, kind-of-our-hospice run."  Take THAT how you will!

Also interesting that K/G/C pretty much admit that they barely had it in them for 13 episodes.  Sigh....

Grrrrr.  NBC should have replaced the show runners a long time ago!

3 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

The main reason I think Trubel makes it is she's the hope of an immediate Grimm spin-off set anywhere TPTB want unless the potential spin-off is for a show set in the future with Grimm-Hexen Kelly kicking ass and taking names.

This show would have some balls to kill Monroe or Rosalee. Wu, Hank, even Bud I can see biting it. Monroe is the obvious one to make the grand sacrifice but I think it'll be a bait and switch with someone else taking the figurative bullet. I will laugh if it's Adalind and Monrosalee end up naming their kid after her. Since they have a boy baby with Nick, baby Monrosalee is bound to be a girl.

I don't see both Juliette and Adalind living. Adalind only survives if they give her a bittersweet ending and mindwipe her to forget her kids so they can go their separate ways or put her in a coma where she's not dead but she's gotten her karma for putting the sleeping curse on Juliette.  And that works for if they ever do a spin-off for Kelly and/or Diana finally figure out how to wake her up and are reunited with her finally. Juliette I think has to live and be happy since she's the show's heroine.

And Grimm fairy tales were actually pretty damn grim, LOL, but I can see the show splitting the difference and go for bittersweet with Nick being presumed dead and Kelly being raised by Juliette but we see something that shows he's not dead but working in the shadows as a 'creature that goes bump in the night for bad wesen' and keeping an eye on Kelly and Juliette from afar.

The only way I can see Nick living happily ever after is if he's presumed dead and goes into hiding with Kelly and Juliette abdicating his duties to Trubel so he can finally have a normal life and be there for his son.

And now that I think about it, the cute ending will be Rosalee or Monroe telling their kid a Grimm fairy tale from a 'storybook' aka Nick's Grimm journal but they aren't afraid because they know Uncle Nick's a Grimm and that he protects everyone from bad wesen and bad people.

Juliette needs to die after setting up Momma Grimm, the neighbors and burning down the Grimmabago!  She has got to, GO!

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

So about my Trubel predictions...after I typed that ET posted a pic from the set with JT, so it looks like I was wrong.  So, unless we're dealing with a time jump in the past, it looks like she's at least alive at some point in the last episode.

Why?!  Trubel is one character that was never needed on this show and I say this as someone that wanted Juliette, dead.

[OtterMommy]

4 hours ago, Darklazr said:

Grrrrr.  NBC should have replaced the show runners a long time ago!

Juliette needs to die after setting up Momma Grimm, the neighbors and burning down the Grimmabago!  She has got to, GO!

I agree with @TobinAlbers, *if* the show has a heroine, it is Juliette.  Yeah, she did some pretty awful things (few, if any, did the show even have to do...sigh), but I do think it would be far easier to hand wave it away than their attempts to do the same with Adalind.  As I've said, they have the excuse--and I do think it is an "excuse" and not a "reason"--of "Juliette was not herself."  It's lame, but it does work better than Adalind just having a freaking personality transplant.

And, frankly, if the story structure is to hold up (and I'm not putting money on it that it will), Juliette would have to be the heroine, alive or dead.

I don't know...it looks like a mess coming up and the article does nothing to assuage my fears.  I will give it a try--unless the Nadalind monster rears its ugly head--but only because, despite all the crap this show has done, I do enjoy the cast.

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Actors always go hyperbolic about these things, but Silas Weir Mitchell swears that long-time viewers will be happy, so I'm a little hopeful.  However a time jump at the end, not so fond of that.  I'm now thinking a Nick/Juliette offspring will be in play.

This makes me think that the show is going to do all it can to get back to roughly where things were season 1...which, on one hand, is not a bad thing.  But, on the other, there really isn't any way they can do that *well* in 13 episodes.

Just to play devil's advocate, SWM also said that the end of season 4 was "Shakespearean," which it wasn't.  I trust his word more than most of the cast (mostly because he has been known to call it as it is), but I'm still taking it with a grain of salt.

[ShadowFacts]

51 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Just to play devil's advocate, SWM also said that the end of season 4 was "Shakespearean," which it wasn't.  I trust his word more than most of the cast (mostly because he has been known to call it as it is), but I'm still taking it with a grain of salt.

Grain of salt for sure, that's why I'm only a little hopeful.  The casts of shows always end up spinning stuff like a top, though I did see Silas on a panel once where he was doing all he could to not roll his eyes at what was being said.  It was kind of funny to watch.  He was very gracious to fans asking questions, it wasn't them he was having a hard time taking seriously. 

[OtterMommy]

Just now, ShadowFacts said:

Grain of salt for sure, that's why I'm only a little hopeful.  The casts of shows always end up spinning stuff like a top, though I did see Silas on a panel once where he was doing all he could to not roll his eyes at what was being said.  It was kind of funny to watch.  He was very gracious to fans asking questions, it wasn't them he was having a hard time taking seriously. 

That is always how I've seen him--very gracious with the fans, but a little fed up with the show.  There were many times during the show where you could tell he thought it was just beyond stupid (FRUITCAKE!).  He's also the only one, until recently when DG decided to drop his filter, who would call things as he sees them.   I'm thinking specifically of something he said at the 100th Anniversary celebration (one of those off-the-cuff interviews where these little gems appear).  I can't remember what exactly he question was, but he said that season 4 was just about throwing everything at the wall to see if anything would stick.  I'm guessing it is things like this that explain why we see so few interviews from him.

And, honestly, I've always thought he was a bit too good for this show.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I agree with @TobinAlbers, *if* the show has a heroine, it is Juliette.  Yeah, she did some pretty awful things (few, if any, did the show even have to do...sigh), but I do think it would be far easier to hand wave it away than their attempts to do the same with Adalind.  As I've said, they have the excuse--and I do think it is an "excuse" and not a "reason"--of "Juliette was not herself."  It's lame, but it does work better than Adalind just having a freaking personality transplant.

And, frankly, if the story structure is to hold up (and I'm not putting money on it that it will), Juliette would have to be the heroine, alive or dead.

I don't know...it looks like a mess coming up and the article does nothing to assuage my fears.  I will give it a try--unless the Nadalind monster rears its ugly head--but only because, despite all the crap this show has done, I do enjoy the cast.

I will never see Juliette as a heroine, ever!  Juliette knew exactly what she was doing from day one when she took Nick back after being all in on "Team Grimm.*   Adalind being written as the best mother in the world is also a load of, BS.

I still don't buy Renard as the big bad and has been playing Nick since day one, because why would he ever give Diana over to Momma Grimm?!  Nope.  I think SR wanting to play something meaty for the last 13 episodes is why we're getting bad Renard.  Which makes me think ET also wanted something besides mediocre Juliette to play and the writers granted both actors wishes.  

Meh.  Whatever.  All 13 episodes seem to be filmed, so the only thing to do is sit back and wait for the actual scenes to play out on TV.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Darklazr

[TobinAlbers]

2 hours ago, Darklazr said:

I will never see Juliette as a heroine, ever!  Juliette knew exactly what she was doing from day one when she took Nick back after being all in on "Team Grimm.

Heh. The way I see it the  show follows television 'protocol' in that Juliette is Nick's love interest and thus the primary female lead/heroine. She has also been active in Team Grimm escapades and contributed to Nick's crusade as best she can up to her hexen transformation which is also a 'rite of passage' of a fantasy show heroine with the male hero's lover being possessed/transformed into a nemesis of sorts due to his lifestyle catching up with them. Juliette then became a kind of tragic heroine in that she her downfall came from her trying to do the 'right thing' and take the potion to undo Nick's deGrimming. What she thought would be a sacrifice of identity and intimacy with her beloved in assuming Adalind's visage - which was bad on it's own but coming after their intimacy had already been tainted by Adalind assuming her visage to rape her beloved - became worse when there was an unforeseen price to Juliette personally with her no longer being human and becoming the thing she hates most- a hexenbeist. And on top of that she was told it was irreversible. So she snapped and went evil bonkers and lashed out at everyone- not cool, but then she's bonkers and hella powerful and being 'corrupted' by her powers. So the once good heroine now must die and becomes the dead tragic heroine.

But this is a fantasy fairy tale and all is not lost. Juliette is resurrected and yet isn't. She's become an other in the form of Eve who is determined to use her powers towards a greater good because.... that was the S5 story the show wanted to tell. Our hero finally lets go of the idea of the old days and his lover returning to him when miracle of miracles the veil is lifted and Juliette - OG Juliette who loves Nick- has resurfaced and the heroine has appeared to have survived her crucible and is stronger in body to actually be a match for her supernatural true love, The Grimm. 

Can Nick overlook her sins of accessory to his mother's murder and the death of the Grimmbago? Can Juliette forgive herself to allow herself to reunite with Nick? Yes, beside true love conquers all and includes forgiveness on both sides. 

And Nick and Juliette live happily ever after.

Although I kind of view Nick and Juliette as the Buffy and Angel/Angelus (or Angel and Cordy) of the Grimmverse and we saw how both those pairings ended up!

[icewolf]

My guess is Grimm Nick and Human Juliette with their baby as the ending, because that would be the expected fairy tale ending.

Adalind will die trying to protect her daughter, Renard dies against Nick in some kind of final fight, Diana quickly ages up to be a stupid sexy teen, and Nick's son disappears and its revealed that Nick's Mom is actually alive and took him to raise him. The entire season will also be about Monroe and Rosalee preparing for their baby.

[Darklazr]

Rosalie is head and shoulders above all of the women on the show, and she gets my vote as heroine along with her hero husband!

23 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Heh. The way I see it the  show follows television 'protocol' in that Juliette is Nick's love interest and thus the primary female lead/heroine. She has also been active in Team Grimm escapades and contributed to Nick's crusade as best she can up to her hexen transformation which is also a 'rite of passage' of a fantasy show heroine with the male hero's lover being possessed/transformed into a nemesis of sorts due to his lifestyle catching up with them. Juliette then became a kind of tragic heroine in that she her downfall came from her trying to do the 'right thing' and take the potion to undo Nick's deGrimming. What she thought would be a sacrifice of identity and intimacy with her beloved in assuming Adalind's visage - which was bad on it's own but coming after their intimacy had already been tainted by Adalind assuming her visage to rape her beloved - became worse when there was an unforeseen price to Juliette personally with her no longer being human and becoming the thing she hates most- a hexenbeist. And on top of that she was told it was irreversible. So she snapped and went evil bonkers and lashed out at everyone- not cool, but then she's bonkers and hella powerful and being 'corrupted' by her powers. So the once good heroine now must die and becomes the dead tragic heroine.

But this is a fantasy fairy tale and all is not lost. Juliette is resurrected and yet isn't. She's become an other in the form of Eve who is determined to use her powers towards a greater good because.... that was the S5 story the show wanted to tell. Our hero finally lets go of the idea of the old days and his lover returning to him when miracle of miracles the veil is lifted and Juliette - OG Juliette who loves Nick- has resurfaced and the heroine has appeared to have survived her crucible and is stronger in body to actually be a match for her supernatural true love, The Grimm. 

Can Nick overlook her sins of accessory to his mother's murder and the death of the Grimmbago? Can Juliette forgive herself to allow herself to reunite with Nick? Yes, beside true love conquers all and includes forgiveness on both sides. 

And Nick and Juliette live happily ever after.

Although I kind of view Nick and Juliette as the Buffy and Angel/Angelus (or Angel and Cordy) of the Grimmverse and we saw how both those pairings ended up!

*Gag*  

I am all for fairytales, but all of the crap that Juliette did in s4 does NOT fly, at all!  Nope.  I will never drink the kool-aid that has this mediocre chick as a heroine!

Nick is a punk.  The dude spent almost eight months playing mattress tag with the woman that did crap to Juliette, and raped him and Hank.  Nick thinks with his shorts, period!

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Darklazr said:

Nick is a punk.  The dude spent almost eight months playing mattress tag with the woman that did crap to Juliette, and raped him and Hank.  Nick thinks with his shorts, period!

That gave me a chuckle.  Nick falling for Adalind made him look like such a dipshit.  The character has gotten progressively more dull as the years went on, but this just made him look like he had really crappy judgment.

I am interested in what was said in the tvline article: 

♦ Nick shows an unnatural attachment to the magic stick at the beginning of the season, and the feeling may be mutual. So, is it his preciousssssss? “Not entirely so much as you might begin to suspect from the beginning, but yeah, because this is too powerful for human hands to hold,” Greenwalt says. The EPs also promise that “the stick definitely figures through the whole thing” and that any questions raised “will be answered.”

[OtterMommy]

23 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Can Nick overlook her sins of accessory to his mother's murder and the death of the Grimmbago? Can Juliette forgive herself to allow herself to reunite with Nick? Yes, beside true love conquers all and includes forgiveness on both sides. 

 

I buy everything in your post, but there is one other reason why Nick would forgive her.  Because the show has never given him any agency and if he can forgive Adalind--whose laundry list of offenses is pages longer than Juliette/Eve's--he can easily forgive Juliette.

It looks like Monroe and Rosalee might be having twins...and there is great sorrow....blech!

http://tvline.com/gallery/tv-spoilers-2017-season-premieres-photos/#!15/winter-tv-preview-grimm/

6.02 promo photos (a little spoilerish in regards to Renard)

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/12/grimm-episode-602-trust-me-knot-press.html

Yahoo spoilers (yeah, I'm totally raiding SpoilerTV right now..._)

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/winter-tv-preview-2017-scoop-slideshow-wp-140052413/photo-p-b-seasons-theme-b-photo-140052467.html

[Free]

21 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Here's the article:

http://tvline.com/2016/12/29/grimm-final-season-6-spoilers-rosalee-baby/

DG calls it "the Oregon, death-with-dignity, kind-of-our-hospice run."  Take THAT how you will!

Also interesting that K/G/C pretty much admit that they barely had it in them for 13 episodes.  Sigh....

Let alone 6 seasons which they've been clearly winging it.

Time jumps and more Juliette retconning.

[ShadowFacts]

39 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

It looks like Monroe and Rosalee might be having twins...and there is great sorry....blech!

http://tvline.com/gallery/tv-spoilers-2017-season-premieres-photos/#!15/winter-tv-preview-grimm/

6.02 promo photos (a little spoilerish in regards to Renard)

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/12/grimm-episode-602-trust-me-knot-press.html

Is it . . . is it . . . is it a BUD sighting??  Be safe, Bud, be safe.