Sex And The City - General Discussion

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

They talk about how the women almost constantly mock, judge, and slut shame Samantha.

I've been watching a lot of Golden Girls and there's a looooooooot of slut shaming of Blanche too.  And of Roz on Frasier too.

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

They also talk about many other problematic things about the show like how they gave Carrie a romantic fairy tale ending but the show always mocks Charlotte for wanting the same.

That's why I remember being so upset/shocked/confused by the Season 6 finale.  

Edited January 19, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

They talk about how the women almost constantly mock, judge, and slut shame Samantha.

They also talk about many other problematic things about the show like how they gave Carrie a romantic fairy tale ending but the show always mocks Charlotte for wanting the same.

Thank you for posting. I need to watch this after work. 

One of my frustrations with the show is that they made the characters over the top. I get that it was a show and one that gave fantasy and escapism, but still. Why couldn't Samantha been a sexy woman who loved sex but not a caricature whom her own friends bashed?

I also have issues with Charlotte-who's probably my fave. I love that Charlotte was feminine and traditional. A lot of women prefer dresses to pants, would rather have a husband and children over a booming career and so on. But did she have to come across as a stereotype of a conservative traditional woman? There are women who are uncomfortable sleeping with men they don't love, but they're not cheesy romantics. There are women who are woke feminists but still have some traditional values. Kristin Davis is actually like this in real life. She's very feminine and ladylike, but she wanted a career, had kids older, is totally fine not being married, aware of injustice, etc. Charlotte often came across as a little girl in a little bubble who was frightened of the unfamiliar (it's Mexico!), and wanted a prince to save her. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by RealHousewife

[qtpye]

5 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Thank you for posting. I need to watch this after work. 

One of my frustrations with the show is that they made the characters over the top. I get that it was a show and one that gave fantasy and escapism, but still. Why couldn't Samantha been a sexy woman who loved sex but not a caricature whom her own friends bashed?

I also have issues with Charlotte-who's probably my fave. I love that Charlotte was feminine and traditional. A lot of women prefer dresses to pants, would rather have a husband and children over a booming career and so on. But did she have to come across as a stereotype of a conservative traditional woman? There are women who are uncomfortable sleeping with men they don't love, but they're not cheesy romantics. There are women who are woke feminists but still have some traditional values. Kristin Davis is actually like this in real life. She's very feminine and ladylike, but she wanted a career, had kids older, is totally fine not being married, aware of injustice, etc. Charlotte   often came across as a little girl in a little bubble who was frightened of the unfamiliar (it's Mexico!), and wanted a prince to save her. 

Yet, Carrie has an actual man come to "save her" at the end and it is treated like the best thing in the world. The video also talks about how Big literally puts a shoe on her foot like Cinderella when he gives her the closet the size of an average Manhattan studio apartment.

Charlotte was actually pretty practical compared to Carrie, who was the real spoiled princess of the show.

[andromeda331]

I like the points they made about Charlotte, Samantha and Miranda. Miranda wanted to put her career first and proud of it. But ended up having to put family first. Samantha slut shamed for loving sex and having lots of it, and Charlotte for wanting the fairytale. When I first started watching the show I liked that they had three different characters. I like they had one woman wanted marriage and kids that was her dream. I liked they had a woman who didn't want marriage or kids, she just wanted to have sex and one who put her career first. All three were great characters each with their own define interests while being friends with each other. Carrie started out different. She was interested in exploring sex and didn't mind having hook ups and things but also opened to the idea of romantic love. Charlotte's the only one who really ended up following what made sense with who she was marriage and kids. Except both ended up being very hard for her. Her dream marriage didn't work out and she had problems having a baby. Her ending up married with two kids fit her. The other three really didn't end up fitting. Samantha made it clear she wasn't interested in relationships. Although she finally ended up going back to that at the end of the first movie. Deciding to be in a relationship didn't really fit Samantha. She should have ended the series happily single and still seeking out men for fun. Miranda's ending didn't really fit her either.  She never really seemed interested in kids or marriage. Neither were a goal of hers. Even when she was pregnant and after Brady was born she wasn't interested in. I could see her maybe ending up in a relationship but not marriage. But she didn't really have too. She should have ended the series made partner in career or something equally great.  

Carrie before her character changed I could see her single and happily, in a relationship, or married. Any of them seemed likely for her. I could see her expanding her writing. Once her character did change single was probably the only thing that would have worked. She was a crappy girlfriend, and always wanted to do what she wanted to do. Being single she could do that.  She really just seemed happy going to clubs, parties, restaurants and shopping. She had zero interest in anything else. 

I really hate that the series ended up with all four relationships. It really didn't make sense for three of the characters. I'm glad the take brought up Sanford and Anthony. They were very right about that. Sanford even called Carrie out in one episode for talking about herself for so long when he wanted to talk about his own relationship. The movies ignored that both hated each other and what Anthony said Charlotte when she introduced him to Sanford about pairing them up. 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by andromeda331

[Maysie]

The last few seasons wore thin for me, for a variety of reasons. It seemed as time went on all of the women became exaggerated versions of their original characters, making them less interesting and sympathetic to me. I don’t know if it was writing or acting choices or thinking that if people liked what was there, that making it even more would make them love it? It became a whirl of pretty shoes and clothes and first world problems, which is great escapism, but also a bit too saccharine for my taste.

I was disappointed with the Carrie/Alek storyline because they seemed to suddenly vilify him after setting him up to be this great catch and a potentially interesting partner for Carrie. When Miranda told Big “go get our girl” it made me ill and was so disappointing (especially coming from Miranda). Are we to believe that if not for Big that Carrie would have stayed in Paris because she didn’t have the means or wherewithal to take control of her own life and carve out the existence that suits her, whether back in New York or in Paris? It was a copout but I guess it’s in keeping with the character of never really accepting responsibility for her life and life choices and basically just rid8ng along in life, expecting others to make sure her needs are met.

Carrie really regressed in the series, and the movies just added to that. I thought it would have been interesting to have a mystery kid show up from one of Big’s many former relationships. Not in a way of “Carrie is suddenly a mom!!!” kind of way, but in a more nuanced mature story, like how she deals with a real rival for attention and making life choices that actually impact someone besides her. But I think that would have been way too serious for this group.

[WendyCR72]

I totally get why some did not like how the ladies ended up.

But sometimes, what one envisions for their life sometimes does take a detour on to a road one would not expect...but then decides to explore the foreign trajectory. and discover they can be/do more than what they first thought.

No judgment meant. But, as one example,  maybe a career-oriented woman like Miranda could find out, hey...I like being a mom, too. And a wife! And can value those AND her career. Ultimately, I think it depends on if the journey to such a change makes sense. And, to me, the stories did...most of the time. The changes happened gradually as the characters themselves evolved, IMO.

Still, mileage and all that and I know others see it differently. All good!  🙂

 

[ifionlyknew]

16 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Why couldn't Samantha been a sexy woman who loved sex but not a caricature whom her own friends bashed?

The writers might have written her that way but I never saw her that way. Kim Cattrall played the hell out of the role and made Samantha my favorite.   Of the four women Samantha's backstory was practically non existent.  The only thing I remember finding out was she worked at DQ (I think).   Having read the Carrie Diaries I can tell you I would much rather read the Samantha Diaries.  

16 hours ago, qtpye said:

Charlotte was actually pretty practical compared to Carrie, who was the real spoiled princess of the show.

While Charlotte hoped for the fairy tale she knew if it didn't come she would survive.  But Carrie wasn't ever going to be happy till she got her happily ever after with all the pomp and circumstance that comes with it.   She might have told Big a small wedding was what she wanted but how easily it turned into what it turned into showed she really did want a big extravaganza.  I wasn't an Aidan fan but she could have had a nice life with him.  Would it have been jet set? No.  But he loved her and she said she loved him.  She just wanted more.

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Carrie before her character changed I could see her single and happily, in a relationship, or married. Any of them seemed likely for her. I could see her expanding her writing. Once her character did change single was probably the only thing that would have worked. She was a crappy girlfriend, and always wanted to do what she wanted to do. Being single she could do that.  She really just seemed happy going to clubs, parties, restaurants and shopping. She had zero interest in anything else. 

Before a publishing house came to her with the offer of making a book of her columns  what was her plan for the future?  Just continue to write a column that clearly didn't pay her enough because she had to take a freelance job at Vogue just to get out of debt.  Even when she went to Paris with Alek she didn't have a plan. She even said her editor didn't go for the idea of Sex in Paris. I've said before Carrie wanted to be what used to be called a socialite.  She didn't want a 9-5 job. She didn't want kids.  She wanted her job to be Carrie Bradshaw and expected that to somehow provide for her.

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

But, as one example,  maybe a career-oriented woman like Miranda could find out, hey...I like being a mom, too. And a wife! And can value those AND her career.

I never bought Miranda moving to Brooklynn.  I get that she did it because it was more affordable but she wouldn't have needed a bigger place if she hadn't married Steve which I also never really bought.  I just didn't buy them as a couple.  I might have bought into it a little more if she had wanted to marry him to give Brady two parents together but she had the epiphany that she still loved Steve while in a happy relationship with Robert.   To me it smacked of the writers positioning everyone for a happy ending.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

The writers might have written her that way but I never saw her that way. Kim Cattrall played the hell out of the role and made Samantha my favorite.   Of the four women Samantha's backstory was practically non existent.  The only thing I remember finding out was she worked at DQ (I think).   Having read the Carrie Diaries I can tell you I would much rather read the Samantha Diaries.  

While Charlotte hoped for the fairy tale she knew if it didn't come she would survive.  But Carrie wasn't ever going to be happy till she got her happily ever after with all the pomp and circumstance that comes with it.   She might have told Big a small wedding was what she wanted but how easily it turned into what it turned into showed she really did want a big extravaganza.  I wasn't an Aidan fan but she could have had a nice life with him.  Would it have been jet set? No.  But he loved her and she said she loved him.  She just wanted more.

Before a publishing house came to her with the offer of making a book of her columns  what was her plan for the future?  Just continue to write a column that clearly didn't pay her enough because she had to take a freelance job at Vogue just to get out of debt.  Even when she went to Paris with Alek she didn't have a plan. She even said her editor didn't go for the idea of Sex in Paris. I've said before Carrie wanted to be what used to be called a socialite.  She didn't want a 9-5 job. She didn't want kids.  She wanted her job to be Carrie Bradshaw and expected that to somehow provide for her.

I never bought Miranda moving to Brooklynn.  I get that she did it because it was more affordable but she wouldn't have needed a bigger place if she hadn't married Steve which I also never really bought.  I just didn't buy them as a couple.  I might have bought into it a little more if she had wanted to marry him to give Brady two parents together but she had the epiphany that she still loved Steve while in a happy relationship with Robert.   To me it smacked of the writers positioning everyone for a happy ending.

Yeah, on TV, fat dorky losers are always dating supermodels but God forbid that an attractive, successful, and smart woman, like Miranda, actually want someone more on her level. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by qtpye

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

I never bought Miranda moving to Brooklynn.  I get that she did it because it was more affordable but she wouldn't have needed a bigger place if she hadn't married Steve which I also never really bought.  I just didn't buy them as a couple.  I might have bought into it a little more if she had wanted to marry him to give Brady two parents together but she had the epiphany that she still loved Steve while in a happy relationship with Robert.   To me it smacked of the writers positioning everyone for a happy ending.

Gotcha. Myself, I did like and prefer Steve/Miranda over Robert/Miranda by a mile. (Robert, while great to look at, seemed about as exciting as plywood to me. ) So that colors things! 😛

[RealHousewife]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

Yeah, on TV, fat dorky losers are always dating supermodels but God forbid that an attractive, successful, and smart woman, like Miranda, actually want someone more on her level. 

This is so true. Carrie is cute, charming and has a killer figure. She's definitely attractive, but she isn't a show stopping beauty, yet she dated all kinds of attractive, successful men, the kind who'd typically go for more conventionally pretty women. She's the exception though. It's usually the men who are partnered with hot babes no matter how unattractive they are. It's like you're an attractive, smart, successful woman, be lucky just to have a man who has SOMETHING going for him. He'll either be cute OR be successful. Attractive, smart, successful men must want a 20-year-old Instagram model or something. How dare you as a woman expect someone who's actually at your level? 

[ifionlyknew]

Miranda herself didn't think Robert would be interested in her. She thought he would go for the hot cheerleader.  

[andromeda331]

I would have liked Steve/Miranda pairing if they kept how he was when they first met. He was a bartender but also read literature. I thought that was interesting. And I could see Miranda dating and maybe ending up with that Steve. When they dropped that part, they didn't just make him a blue collar worker but manchild blue collar. 

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

I would have liked Steve/Miranda pairing if they kept how he was when they first met. He was a bartender but also read literature. I thought that was interesting. And I could see Miranda dating and maybe ending up with that Steve. When they dropped that part, they didn't just make him a blue collar worker but manchild blue collar. 

To be fair, in the Sex and The City companion book out ages ago, David Eigenberg actually addressed that and he didn't like or get the change, either. (Me, I think it was done to make it easy for Miranda to dump him the first time, putting plot over character.)

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

She wanted her job to be Carrie Bradshaw and expected that to somehow provide for her. 

That's exactly what she wanted and really expected to be. She wanted to get into all the exclusive clubs, events, restaurants and shop at all the expensive places. But not actually do anything to get it. Just showing up as Carrie Bradshaw and get it all.

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, in the Sex and The City companion book out ages ago, David Eigenberg actually addressed that and he didn't like or get the change, either. (Me, I think it was done to make it easy for Miranda to dump him the first time, putting plot over character.)

It probably was but it also is what made it hard to invest in their relationship. He suddenly became a manchild. They'd give us an episode where Miranda is so happy with Steve even to the point of doing her laundry (which seemed very unMiranda like) and the very next episode she's sick of him and annoyed. The latter along with keeping Steve acting alike a manchild ended up what they went with through the rest of the series and hard for me to root for them.  

[qtpye]

59 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I would have liked Steve/Miranda pairing if they kept how he was when they first met. He was a bartender but also read literature. I thought that was interesting. And I could see Miranda dating and maybe ending up with that Steve. When they dropped that part, they didn't just make him a blue collar worker but manchild blue collar. 

 

56 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, in the Sex and The City companion book out ages ago, David Eigenberg actually addressed that and he didn't like or get the change, either. (Me, I think it was done to make it easy for Miranda to dump him the first time, putting plot over character.)

I liked the way Steve was introduced. He was a really smart and thoughtful guy. The funny thing is the more successful the character became (restaurant owner instead of bartender) the more the show felt the need to dumb him down.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think that the criticism of the show dumbing down Steve is completely fair. David Eigenberg agreeing with that criticism doesn't lessen that criticism, it only reinforces it.

[Avabelle]

Yeah agree - the Steve from his first episode was a great match for Miranda. The Steve she ended up felt more then a little like settling.

.... having said that - something about them just worked for me regardless of his dumbing down. Miranda was practical and not looking for constant drama and stomach flips like Carrie so it doesn’t surprise me that she would have happily ended up with Steve who she had a deep rooted friendship and history with.  It just took Brady to finally get her in a place where she accepted that. 

 

[ifionlyknew]

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think that the criticism of the show dumbing down Steve is completely fair. David Eigenberg agreeing with that criticism doesn't lessen that criticism, it only reinforces it.

I don't know why they dumbed him down.  He goes from reading literature to watching cartoons?  Not that you can't do both but it was like he gave up one for the other.  It was like it was two completely different characters.

33 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Yeah agree - the Steve from his first episode was a great match for Miranda. The Steve she ended up felt more then a little like settling.

As I have said before I think the idea of Steve worked better than the character of Steve.  I could totally have seen Miranda with a blue collar guy who was smart and challenged her.  

 

36 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Miranda was practical and not looking for constant drama and stomach flips like Carrie so it doesn’t surprise me that she would have happily ended up with Steve who she had a deep rooted friendship and history with.  It just took Brady to finally get her in a place where she accepted that. 

Miranda was very practical. She would have wanted a guy who was an equal partner with her. And IMO Steve wasn't that.  

[qtpye]

11 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I don't know why they dumbed him down.  He goes from reading literature to watching cartoons?  Not that you can't do both but it was like he gave up one for the other.  It was like it was two completely different characters.

As I have said before I think the idea of Steve worked better than the character of Steve.  I could totally have seen Miranda with a blue collar guy who was smart and challenged her.  

 

Miranda was very practical. She would have wanted a guy who was an equal partner with her. And IMO Steve wasn't that.  

Yeah, it was like they thought you could not be intellectual and fun/goofy at the same time.

Believe me, plenty of people are all of the above.

[Black Knight]

I think it was just laziness. It was easier to generate tension by simply turning Steve into Miranda's polar opposite instead of keeping him as someone who had things in common with her but also differed from her in ways that were complementary. The writing for Charlotte/Harry was better in this regard.

[ifionlyknew]

5 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I think it was just laziness. It was easier to generate tension by simply turning Steve into Miranda's polar opposite instead of keeping him as someone who had things in common with her but also differed from her in ways that were complementary. The writing for Charlotte/Harry was better in this regard.

I agree with this.  I think the writers didn't really know how to write for Miranda.  Or Samantha for that matter.  Miranda and Samantha could have easily been stereotypes (and Charlotte as well) and to be honest I think they sometimes did seem like stereotypes.  We have discussed before how Miranda's wardrobe didn't seem to be as on point as the other three.  I think the writers room put more effort into writing for certain characters.  I thought Charlotte and Harry were written well as a couple.  Unexpected love happens and differing religious views can be a problem and I thought the show handled that well.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

I agree with this.  I think the writers didn't really know how to write for Miranda.  Or Samantha for that matter.  Miranda and Samantha could have easily been stereotypes (and Charlotte as well) and to be honest I think they sometimes did seem like stereotypes.  We have discussed before how Miranda's wardrobe didn't seem to be as on point as the other three.  I think the writers room put more effort into writing for certain characters.  I thought Charlotte and Harry were written well as a couple.  Unexpected love happens and differing religious views can be a problem and I thought the show handled that well.  

I think one of the worst Charlotte scenes where she acts like a stereotype is when Carrie introduces her to the guy who is ready to settle down and get married (Carrie dated him first but she was not ready for those things).

I think they broke up over not agreeing on china patterns, which was probably done for comedy but came off rather stupid.

[RealHousewife]

19 hours ago, qtpye said:

Yeah, it was like they thought you could not be intellectual and fun/goofy at the same time.

Believe me, plenty of people are all of the above.

Yes, I know a lot of intellectual people who have their goofball side. They're my favorite kind of people. I like being able to have all kinds of conversations but also be silly and not serious all the time. 

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think one of the worst Charlotte scenes where she acts like a stereotype is when Carrie introduces her to the guy who is ready to settle down and get married (Carrie dated him first but she was not ready for those things).

I think they broke up over not agreeing on china patterns, which was probably done for comedy but came off rather stupid.

I hated when they wrote like this. There are girls like Charlotte who do want "looks, money, manners," but breaking up with someone over china patterns? This is when they take prissiness to caricature level. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by RealHousewife

[Spartan Girl]

So my mom had the movie on and the part where Miranda yells at Steve that she changed who she was for him annoys me because as far as I can see...uh, no she didn’t. Having Brady was her choice. Getting married was her idea. It’s not like she gave her up her whole career for him; the only thing that changed was moving to from Manhattan to Brooklyn — like Brooklyn was so terrible. *eyeroll*

I really hate that I can’t be on Miranda’s side because ordinarily I abhor cheating. But after how she spent the first part of the movie about marriage being so hard, “never having time for anything” while still managing to have brunch with her girlfriends and devoting a whole afternoon to moving Carrie into her new place with Big, and then snapping at Steve to just “get it over with” during sex...you get the idea. I feel like The Take’s video missed that point.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[BlueMoon81]

On 1/20/2021 at 9:06 AM, ifionlyknew said:

I never bought Miranda moving to Brooklynn.  I get that she did it because it was more affordable but she wouldn't have needed a bigger place if she hadn't married Steve which I also never really bought.  I just didn't buy them as a couple.  I might have bought into it a little more if she had wanted to marry him to give Brady two parents together but she had the epiphany that she still loved Steve while in a happy relationship with Robert.   To me it smacked of the writers positioning everyone for a happy ending.

I actually really loved Robert/Miranda. I thought they had electric chemistry, and I loved how sweet Robert was with her—whether doctoring her through the chicken pox, watching (and loving) Jules & Mimi with her, or surprising her by cooking for her when she came home from work. I thought it would’ve been a powerful narrative to have her and Steve end up with partners they fit with perfectly, while being great co-parents at the same time—that’s a narrative we don’t often see in tv/film (the parents either have to end up “happily ever after” or be bitter enemies) 

On 1/20/2021 at 5:25 PM, andromeda331 said:

I would have liked Steve/Miranda pairing if they kept how he was when they first met. He was a bartender but also read literature. I thought that was interesting. And I could see Miranda dating and maybe ending up with that Steve. When they dropped that part, they didn't just make him a blue collar worker but manchild blue collar. 

I loved Steve the way that he was when he was first introduced. Although him dumping Miranda over his own insecurities REALLY soured me on the character. Miranda took a chance and opened up her heart to him (after being very clear how often she had been hurt by past relationships)...only for him to dump her over something so stupid as “she makes more money than me”. When the writers got them back together in Season 3, Steve was full-on man-child, and I was over them as a couple 

Edited January 24, 2021 by BlueMoon81

[BlueMoon81]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:24 AM, Not4Me said:

Well...at least she seems to be a lot more fun than that old stick in the mud, Carrie.

Remember how she cock-blocked Charlotte from getting some action when Char finally decided to let loose, put on her best trampwear, and enjoy Atlantic City...and on her BIRTHDAY no less. So yeah she sucks!

I HATED Carrie in that Atlantic City episode—she was such a raging bitch to Charlotte throughout it. I love how Charlotte let her hair down, put on a revealing outfit, and felt totally comfortable in her sexuality in public for once—only for idiot Carrie to cockblock her. Then there was the scene where they were talking on the Boardwalk and Carrie again was snarky and nasty to Charlotte for no reason. I seriously wanted to see Charlotte stuff Carrie’s head into the Atlantic Ocean 🙄🙄

On 1/16/2021 at 10:53 AM, Quof said:

Now there's lots of talk about Jennifer Coolidge actually playing Samantha.  Just, no.   (She also says "no way"). Seriously, people.  How hard is it to have a throw away line "I had a great Zoom with Samantha last night. She sends her love."   Either carry on with the 3 women or bring in a 4th woman - perhaps even with some connection to Samantha - but to simply have some one else play the character is insulting to the actors and the viewers.  

THANK YOU! How difficult would it be for them to have one of the girls say they just had a fantastic Zoom or FaceTime with Sam and that she sends her love and is doing PR for a random celeb?? Or incorporate a new woman to the friend circle (slowly)?? This re-cast is gonna be a mess 

[Scarlett45]

13 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

THANK YOU! How difficult would it be for them to have one of the girls say they just had a fantastic Zoom or FaceTime with Sam and that she sends her love and is doing PR for a random celeb?? Or incorporate a new woman to the friend circle (slowly)?? This re-cast is gonna be a mess 

So there absolutely will be a recast?

 

On 1/12/2021 at 5:41 AM, Avabelle said:

After the shambles that was that the second movie (and first if I’m honest) I don’t blame Kim for walking away. The writing for Samatha was toxic and appalling. I only imagine a third movie would have further degraded her. 

Sex and the City is a prime example of having too much of a good thing. I thought the series had arguably one of the best endings and both movies have continuously picked the ending apart. I really just wish they’d be done with it. 

I agree with you. Kim has been in the business a long time, is childfree and has managed her money well. $10million to her isn’t the same as $10million to a typical person.
 

They RUINED Samantha in the second film. Ruined. I didn’t mind the first so much. Smith did love her but managing his career was becoming all encompassing and Samantha wanted to live her life on her OWN TERMS. Managing Smith made her a great deal of money and they had a great time together, but she never vowed “for better or worse”. 
 

I haven’t watched the show in a long time- years. I do still have the dvds. Now that I’m in my mid 30s I think I’d find Carrie more annoying than I did as a teen. Lol. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Samantha in the first movie had wonderful moments like when she gently helped Carrie eat when she as heart broken, and I thought the slight weight gain was realistic because she wasn't happy..but couldn't express it.  She missed her friends and NYC..and she came home.  The 2nd movie..yikes.

Kim has.said she loved Samantha, but was >60 and felt she played all she could play of the character.  And she has done some interesting other roles since.

[qtpye]

9 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Samantha in the first movie had wonderful moments like when she gently helped Carrie eat when she as heart broken, and I thought the slight weight gain was realistic because she wasn't happy..but couldn't express it.  She missed her friends and NYC..and she came home.  The 2nd movie..yikes.

Kim has.said she loved Samantha, but was >60 and felt she played all she could play of the character.  And she has done some interesting other roles since.

I think Kim is the only one being sensible. The truth is the show was very cutting edge for its time but now is dated and almost prudish for modern sensibilities. We have all moved on passed what this show represented.

That said, you know I will be watching the remake because I just can not help myself.

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think Kim is the only one being sensible. The truth is the show was very cutting edge for its time but now is dated and almost prudish for modern sensibilities. We have all moved on passed what this show represented.

That said, you know I will be watching the remake because I just can not help myself.

The best thing about the show was the depiction of the friendships between the women. That’s the heart and core of the series. Cultural mores and attitudes around sex/relationships change, generation x isn’t going to view their mid adult years the way millennials will, but the platonic love and intimacy is core to the human experience. 
 

Like you I will probably watch because I can’t help myself, and if there’s nothing else competing with my time. 

[qtpye]

49 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The best thing about the show was the depiction of the friendships between the women. That’s the heart and core of the series. Cultural mores and attitudes around sex/relationships change, generation x isn’t going to view their mid adult years the way millennials will, but the platonic love and intimacy is core to the human experience. 
 

Like you I will probably watch because I can’t help myself, and if there’s nothing else competing with my time. 

I agree except in the later seasons Carrie was sort of a horrible friend

Edited January 25, 2021 by qtpye

[ifionlyknew]

15 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think Kim is the only one being sensible. The truth is the show was very cutting edge for its time but now is dated and almost prudish for modern sensibilities. We have all moved on passed what this show represented.

If they did a  reboot with a different younger cast I would probably enjoy that.  Showing single women dealing with all the changes in dating that have occurred since the original went off the air would be interesting.  And as I said in an earlier post if the reboot shows the women dealing with the reality of being women in their 50s that might be interesting.   But if they try to show these women having the same lives they had over ten years ago then I'm not going to enjoy it.  As much as I loved these characters (tolerated Carrie) sometimes you just have to let them go and imagine their future yourself.

[ifionlyknew]

43 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The best thing about the show was the depiction of the friendships between the women. That’s the heart and core of the series. Cultural mores and attitudes around sex/relationships change, generation x isn’t going to view their mid adult years the way millennials will, but the platonic love and intimacy is core to the human experience. 

I think one of the reason the show appealed across so many generations is because like you said the heart of the show was their friendship. There were teen girls that watched it and thought that will be me in 10 years.  There were 20 and 30 somethings who watched and identified with the characters because they were at the point in their lives. Women 40 and older watched and thought that was me before I was married.

35 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I agree except in the later seasons Carrie was sort of a horrible friends

But you  know that isn't entirely unrealistic.  Not all groups of friends are all good people.  What was unrealistic was very few people ever called Carrie out on not being a good friend. As someone posted above Sanford did  and Miranda called her out for the bullshit bagels. But mostly Carrie was allowed to be a lousy friend sometimes.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by ifionlyknew

[qtpye]

8 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I think one of the reason the show appealed across so many generations is because like you said the heart of the show was their friendship. There were teen girls that watched it and thought that will be me in 10 years.  There were 20 and 30 somethings who watched and identified with the characters because they were at the point in their lives. Women 40 and older watched and thought that was me before I was married.

But you  know that isn't entirely unrealistic.  Not all groups of friends are all good people.  What was unrealistic was very few people ever called Carrie out on not being a good friend. As someone posted above Sanford did  and Miranda called her out for the bullshit bagels. But mostly Carrie was allowed to be a lousy friend sometimes.  

So true. How awesome would it be if Carrie started to find out that the 3 other ladies had started making plans without her because they just could not take her bullshit anymore?

She would have been so shocked.

I know that would have never happened because SJP was the boss, but it would of felt a little satisfying. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by qtpye

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

But you  know that isn't entirely unrealistic.  Not all groups of friends are all good people.  What was unrealistic was very few people ever called Carrie out on not being a good friend. As someone posted above Sanford did  and Miranda called her out for the bullshit bagels. But mostly Carrie was allowed to be a lousy friend sometimes.  

I agree, it's realistic!  What's bothersome is that the writers held Carrie as their do-nothing wrong protagonist who is just so adorable!  Her foibles are "cute", but if any of her friends screw up, Carrie gets to yell at them!

[ifionlyknew]

I find myself comparing SATC to two of my other favorite shows about four women. Golden Girls and Designing Women.  GG and DW were (and correct me if I'm wrong) meant to be shows about the four characters. Nobody was supposed to be the star with the other three supporting the star.  GG might have intended Sophia to be supporting but they quickly changed that.  

But with SATC Carrie was supposed to be the main focus while the others had smaller storylines.  That of course changed but I wonder if the writers thought they still had to write Carrie as the star even if the others got more storylines.  

And I've noticed something. When I have recently watched GG and DW I find the episodes as enjoyable when I watched them over 30 years ago. I can't say the same about SATC and that makes me sad.

[qtpye]

8 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I find myself comparing SATC to two of my other favorite shows about four women. Golden Girls and Designing Women.  GG and DW were (and correct me if I'm wrong) meant to be shows about the four characters. Nobody was supposed to be the star with the other three supporting the star.  GG might have intended Sophia to be supporting but they quickly changed that.  

But with SATC Carrie was supposed to be the main focus while the others had smaller storylines.  That of course changed but I wonder if the writers thought they still had to write Carrie as the star even if the others got more storylines.  

And I've noticed something. When I have recently watched GG and DW I find the episodes as enjoyable when I watched them over 30 years ago. I can't say the same about SATC and that makes me sad.

That's because in GG and DW almost every character gets called on her bullshit at least once. The GG were awesome at taking each other down. I remember even imperial Julia on DW went down the runway with her skirt tucked in her pantyhose without underwear and accidently mooned Atlanta. She was mortified

Compare that to when Carrie tripped in the fashion show and got a standing ovation.

[ifionlyknew]

27 minutes ago, qtpye said:

That's because in GG and DW almost every character gets called on her bullshit at least once.

That is a good point.  They all had their flaws and the other characters routinely pointed them out. As did the writers.

One of the very few times Carrie was written as really fucking up was her affair with Big.  But of course afterwards she was back to being the wronged party because Natasha wouldn't give her the absolution she wanted.

[Luckylyn]

I think if they waited a few more years that a Sex and the City reboot featuring the children of Miranda and Charlotte could be good.  

[Mu Shu]

On 12/24/2020 at 3:36 PM, RealHousewife said:

Honestly, I'm excited about the news! I know the reboots are very rarely as good. I know the show isn't the same without Samantha. I know sometimes it's best to leave things in the past no matter how amazing they were. But I loved the heck out of SATC and still haven't been able to find a similar show I enjoy as much in years. Something that touches on not just sex, but love, friendship, fashion. I will at the very least give the new show a shot. 🙂

Me too! This horse is thirsty. As long as it isn’t written by men who know jack all about women, it should be good. I’d watch it into their sixties. And seventies. 
 

holy moldy you guys. I thought you were talking about a movie. It’s a series! OUR GIRLS ARE BACK!!

im ready to plotz. And I don’t even know how to plotz!  I feel like I’m in a dream. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Mu Shu

[CleoCaesar]

On 1/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, Spartan Girl said:

So my mom had the movie on and the part where Miranda yells at Steve that she changed who she was for him annoys me because as far as I can see...uh, no she didn’t. Having Brady was her choice. Getting married was her idea. It’s not like she gave her up her whole career for him; the only thing that changed was moving to from Manhattan to Brooklyn — like Brooklyn was so terrible. *eyeroll*

I had pretty much the exact opposite take. Their relationship just seems terribly one-sided. It's like a weekly installment of Miranda Needs to Learn How to Compromise. Everything about that relationship went Steve's way. She needs to be open to a relationship. She needs to cut back on her hours. She has to agree to get a dog that he doesn't take care of. She has to agree that Steve won't accept an expensive suit from her. She has to agree to baptize Brady. She has to compromise on the honeymoon. She has to agree to move to Brooklyn. She has to agree to take care of his mother.

Seemingly every subplot of theirs had to do with Miranda learning a lesson, being chastised for not putting Steve first, or "changing" for her relationship. I don't remember a single instance of Steve being the one to compromise. It was always Miranda. And the way Steve went about it usually was mildly passive-aggressive to full-on condescending ("this isn't just about you, Miranda"). Steve got a pretty sweet deal, really.

[ifionlyknew]

8 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

I had pretty much the exact opposite take. Their relationship just seems terribly one-sided. It's like a weekly installment of Miranda Needs to Learn How to Compromise. Everything about that relationship went Steve's way. She needs to be open to a relationship. She needs to cut back on her hours. She has to agree to get a dog that he doesn't take care of. She has to agree that Steve won't accept an expensive suit from her. She has to agree to baptize Brady. She has to compromise on the honeymoon. She has to agree to move to Brooklyn. She has to agree to take care of his mother.

Seemingly every subplot of theirs had to do with Miranda learning a lesson, being chastised for not putting Steve first, or "changing" for her relationship. I don't remember a single instance of Steve being the one to compromise. It was always Miranda. And the way Steve went about it usually was mildly passive-aggressive to full-on condescending ("this isn't just about you, Miranda"). Steve got a pretty sweet deal, really.

I agree with this.  Out of the four Miranda changed herself the most. And it wasn't personal growth which I think Charlotte and Samantha both achieved by letting themselves love men who might not have been what the initially thought they wanted (well in Samantha's case loving a man at all). 

I firmly believe if she hadn't gotten pregnant with Brady she never would have ended up with Steve. But she did have Brady so OK still didn't need to end up with Steve.  OK she decided she did love Steve but she didn't need to move to Brooklyn.  Ok so she did move to Brooklyn.  She didn't need to have to struggle so  hard juggling family and career. OK so she did struggle but the writers did not need to make her the villain when Steve chose to cheat on her. 

Once she was with Steve it became all about what she had to do. It was never what he had to do. In life I think your partner either lifts you up or brings you down. I think Steve brought Miranda down.

Harry lifted Charlotte up.  He showed her you can have a happy life without it being picture perfect.

Smith lifted Samantha up. He opened her heart up and let her love and be loved.

I can't really say I think Big changed Carrie for the better or for the worst.  I do think Alek brought her down though.  She gave up her life in NYC to go to Paris for seemingly no reason other than to be with him.

Edited January 26, 2021 by ifionlyknew

[CleoCaesar]

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

OK she decided she did love Steve but she didn't need to move to Brooklyn.

The Brooklyn thing drives me nuts because it's so unnecessary and obviously just there to be another chapter in Miranda Needs to Learn How to Compromise.

Steve (as always) didn't seem to consider Miranda's feelings at all in the house-buying scenario. Why was he so hellbent on Brooklyn? It was farther away from Miranda's workplace, meaning a longish commute (depending where in Brooklyn) and more stress for her. She was a partner in at a Big Law firm in Manhattan - she was making serious money. The idea that they had only two choices - tiny Manhattan apartment or house in Brooklyn - was laughable. They could have easily chosen a spacious apartment, say, on the Upper West Side (tons of families, schools, playgrounds, the park). But Steve wanted the house, and Steve got the house. How? By (as always) playing the stop-being-selfish-and-compromise card. Miranda could be self-centered and maybe even "too independent" (although I loathe that concept), but the way that relationship was structured was always Miranda changing for Steve in some way or another, like she was somehow damaged and this relationship was teaching her how to be better. Steve, meanwhile, stayed pretty static. Doesn't seem very fair.

[ifionlyknew]

29 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Miranda could be self-centered and maybe even "too independent" (although I loathe that concept), but the way that relationship was structured was always Miranda changing for Steve in some way or another, like she was somehow damaged and this relationship was teaching her how to be better

From my perspective that is exactly how Miranda was written after she met Steve.  Before Steve Miranda dated but didn't seem like she was looking for a long term relationship but if it happened then great. Even after hooking up with Steve it didn't seem like it would lead to anything serious. Yes they became a couple (sorta) but I didn't see it leading to marriage. When they broke up it because Miranda knew it wasn't working.  But then the pity fuck and then Brady and then her sudden realization she loves him.  I just don't buy it.  I don't see Miranda uprooting her whole life because it is what Steve wants. When Miranda was questioning Carrie's motives for moving to Paris maybe she should have been questioning her own motives for moving to Brooklyn.  There are women who really do enjoy being career women. Not every woman needs nor wants a man to give her a family life.

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

From my perspective that is exactly how Miranda was written after she met Steve.  Before Steve Miranda dated but didn't seem like she was looking for a long term relationship but if it happened then great. Even after hooking up with Steve it didn't seem like it would lead to anything serious. Yes they became a couple (sorta) but I didn't see it leading to marriage. When they broke up it because Miranda knew it wasn't working.  But then the pity fuck and then Brady and then her sudden realization she loves him.  I just don't buy it.  I don't see Miranda uprooting her whole life because it is what Steve wants. When Miranda was questioning Carrie's motives for moving to Paris maybe she should have been questioning her own motives for moving to Brooklyn.  There are women who really do enjoy being career women. Not every woman needs nor wants a man to give her a family life.

Yeah I kind of agree. It’s true if you want emotional intimacy with another person (especially a spouse) you do have to compromise a little, if you don’t want to compromise hire staff. Staff (a nanny, housekeeper, caregiver etc) does what you say to do when you say to do it because it’s their job. 
 

But I think it was realistic what happened to Miranda because I believe heteronormative marriage really favors MEN not women. Especially not women with high earning/high power careers like Miranda had. And I think that Miranda was resentful that she was always changing and that’s what lead to her not wanting to have sex with him for MONTHS yet having all sorts of leisure time for things she wanted to do (like brunch with the girls- I’m not upset I love brunch). 
 

I do wish the second movie had explored how she and Steve got back together a tiny bit more (one scene of therapy wasn’t enough) and addressed how although Miranda did love him and enjoy him, she also resented him and who she let herself become to have a “family” and get her emotional needs met. 
 

For the record I don’t think Steve is an awful person. I do think they could’ve had a really happy relationship, but in the sake of “getting along”, Miranda wasn’t authentic and I think she resented that, but she couldn’t even admit it to herself. 

[ifionlyknew]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Miranda wasn’t authentic and I think she resented that, but she couldn’t even admit it to herself. 

I agree with that.  I don't think the writers wrote it that way but I don't think Miranda was happy with the life she ended up with and did resent Steve.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, ifionlyknew said:

I agree with that.  I don't think the writers wrote it that way but I don't think Miranda was happy with the life she ended up with and did resent Steve.

We are smarter than the writers. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

I had pretty much the exact opposite take. Their relationship just seems terribly one-sided. It's like a weekly installment of Miranda Needs to Learn How to Compromise. Everything about that relationship went Steve's way. She needs to be open to a relationship. She needs to cut back on her hours. She has to agree to get a dog that he doesn't take care of. She has to agree that Steve won't accept an expensive suit from her. She has to agree to baptize Brady. She has to compromise on the honeymoon. She has to agree to move to Brooklyn. She has to agree to take care of his mother.

Seemingly every subplot of theirs had to do with Miranda learning a lesson, being chastised for not putting Steve first, or "changing" for her relationship. I don't remember a single instance of Steve being the one to compromise. It was always Miranda. And the way Steve went about it usually was mildly passive-aggressive to full-on condescending ("this isn't just about you, Miranda"). Steve got a pretty sweet deal, really.

I knew that someone had written an intelligent post like this before.......  I always remember this post.  I think it is so smart and clever.  

I absolutely can't stand the relationship that Miranda and Steve had because there was a certain period where he threw a tantrum every time he didn't get his way, and Miranda would cave.

Miranda doesn't pay attention to my basketball (SHE WAS BUSY WORKING, BY THE WAY.)  I'LL THROW A BASKETBALL IN HER APARTMENT.
Miranda wants to pay for my suit.  I'LL DUMP HER.
I want to have a kid and I don't care if Miranda doesn't.  I'll get a puppy and Miranda will look after it.

It was always Miranda stands up for herself - Steve throws tantrum - Miranda bends.  It was an awful, awful relationship.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I knew that someone had written an intelligent post like this before.......  I always remember this post.  I think it is so smart and clever.  

I absolutely can't stand the relationship that Miranda and Steve had because there was a certain period where he threw a tantrum every time he didn't get his way, and Miranda would cave.

Miranda doesn't pay attention to my basketball (SHE WAS BUSY WORKING, BY THE WAY.)  I'LL THROW A BASKETBALL IN HER APARTMENT.
Miranda wants to pay for my suit.  I'LL DUMP HER.
I want to have a kid and I don't care if Miranda doesn't.  I'll get a puppy and Miranda will look after it.

It was always Miranda stands up for herself - Steve throws tantrum - Miranda bends.  It was an awful, awful relationship.

I think it really irks us because it builds on the trope that men get to be lovable "boys" all their lives, while we women should just enjoy cleaning up their messes and taking care of everything. If the woman complains then she is labeled a shrew.

Miranda was also probably the primary breadwinner in her relationship, as well. I can imagine in the show's update there is a chance that Steve's bar might have shut down due to Covid.

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah I kind of agree. It’s true if you want emotional intimacy with another person (especially a spouse) you do have to compromise a little, if you don’t want to compromise hire staff. Staff (a nanny, housekeeper, caregiver etc) does what you say to do when you say to do it because it’s their job. 
 

But I think it was realistic what happened to Miranda because I believe heteronormative marriage really favors MEN not women. Especially not women with high earning/high power careers like Miranda had. And I think that Miranda was resentful that she was always changing and that’s what lead to her not wanting to have sex with him for MONTHS yet having all sorts of leisure time for things she wanted to do (like brunch with the girls- I’m not upset I love brunch). 
 

I do wish the second movie had explored how she and Steve got back together a tiny bit more (one scene of therapy wasn’t enough) and addressed how although Miranda did love him and enjoy him, she also resented him and who she let herself become to have a “family” and get her emotional needs met. 
 

For the record I don’t think Steve is an awful person. I do think they could’ve had a really happy relationship, but in the sake of “getting along”, Miranda wasn’t authentic and I think she resented that, but she couldn’t even admit it to herself. 

There was a study that shows that a man's health greatly improves if he gets married but a woman's health goes down. Yet, it is we women that are the "ball and chain" that need to convince men to put a ring on it. 🙄🙄

[Mu Shu]

I thought they got the house in Brooklyn because Steve was stupid enough to get a high energy herding dog as a pet. Wasn’t his bar in Manhattan too? If they didn’t have the stupid dog they could have stayed, IMO. But I’m always bemused when city dwellers think working dogs are good for apartments in cities. But I’m still excited for this. With good writers it could be even better this time around.