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The Spoiler Place: Spoilers AND discussion of them

Kromm

By Kromm
in The Good Place [V]

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BobP

BobP

(edited)

Not sure where this thought goes, so I'll post it here so I don't need to worry about spoilers. Sequence in the Good Place starting in the first episode(s) of season 2 finished awfully quickly -- does anyone think they needed to make it consistent with the ending of season one, but (upon reflection) didn't like where that one would take the show so they killed it off quickly (Eleanor seemed to get it awfully fast) and get the chance to do a new season now?

Also, Eleanor (while no paragon of virtue) seems to be a better person than when she started season 1 -- could this be more like the Catholic concept of Purgatory rather than The Bad Place? Of course Tahani appears no better, but there's potential there. Chidi made a decision quickly (but walked it back); "Jianyu" spoke up for himself quickly rather than trying to hide who he really is... 

Edited by BobP
  • Love 1
Affogato

Affogato

9 hours ago, BobP said:

Not sure where this thought goes, so I'll post it here so I don't need to worry about spoilers. Sequence in the Good Place starting in the first episode(s) of season 2 finished awfully quickly -- does anyone think they needed to make it consistent with the ending of season one, but (upon reflection) didn't like where that one would take the show so they killed it off quickly (Eleanor seemed to get it awfully fast) and get the chance to do a new season now?

Also, Eleanor (while no paragon of virtue) seems to be a better person than when she started season 1 -- could this be more like the Catholic concept of Purgatory rather than The Bad Place? Of course Tahani appears no better, but there's potential there. Chidi made a decision quickly (but walked it back); "Jianyu" spoke up for himself quickly rather than trying to hide who he really is... 

Our guys are making progress., Except michael, who is headed into dangerous territory. Tahani said nice things about the cargo pants, though. She is the one of them most susceptible to peer pressure  

I think they slipped into the third scenario because Michael is now lying to demons, boss and the humans. He may end up allied with humans to save himself? Or at least willing to bargain  

Why are cargo pants not a negative point item? It seems consistent. 

Erin

Erin

I think there's no Purgatory yet, but this is how it gets started, by accident.

I do think Michael is going to have to start working with at least Eleanor at some point. It's in everyone's best interest that Sean not find out the project has failed. But is it ethical to go along with torturing other humans psychologically if it's for their own good so they don't get sent to a place with twisting and butthole spiders? And what if they start torturing other humans the same way based on the "success" of the first "Good Place" - is Eleanor complicit in their torture if she knows what's going on and plays along? That could get interesting.

My speculation is partly informed by upcoming episode titles here https://www.tvtime.com/en/show/311711/episode/6141748 - not sure how reliable that is but they seem plausible. One title is a name, and later an episode title is four names. New humans being tortured?

And according to this interview http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/the-good-place-michael-schur-season-2-premiere-interview.html it sounds like tonight is going to involve multiple resets/memory wipes. I think it's going to get out of Michael's control and he's going to have to give up on fooling Eleanor. 
 

Quote

 

Another thing I find consistently delightful are the names of the shops and the restaurants. How do you come up with those? Do you guys have some Google doc that’s 200 names long and you choose the best ones?
That master Google document is called Megan Amram’s brain. Megan is obviously a writer on the show. She was a writer on Parks and Rec. You probably know her from Twitter. I actually think, no joke, her brain is like the computer in Lost where if you didn’t enter the code and press enter every like 100 minutes or whatever else, the world would end. That’s Megan’s brain with puns. If Megan doesn’t make a pun every 37 minutes, her brain will overheat and her head will explode and she’ll die. That’s the only possible explanation for how many puns Megan makes out loud and on Twitter every day.

I gave her the third episode to write, which, part of it has a Groundhog Day element where Michael is trying over and over again to reboot everything. There’s a sequence where you see the restaurants go from pudding restaurants to sushi restaurants to Indian restaurants or whatever. This is not an exaggeration: Megan, in that section of the script, included a giant paragraph full of puns for different kind of names of different kinds of ethnic restaurants. I think it went on for six or seven pages. It just went on and on and on. Partially she was doing it to lean into her stereotype as a person who loves puns. But also, it was just straight-up impressive.

 


Another spoilery thing from that interview:

 

Quote

I would imagine we’ll see more of Vicki, but are these other characters going to be part of the story throughout the season?
Without wanting to give too much away, some of them will and some of them won’t. Some of them pop up and you don’t see them again, some of them stick around a little bit longer. It was very fun to use some of the people from last year and also bring in new people, but it’s a crowded playing field already. And something happens at the end of the fourth episode that throws the point of view back into the world of Eleanor and her three human friends. For that reason, there’s less time to be spent with the other, call them what you will — demons, I guess — in episodes five and beyond.

Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

(edited)

"THE BEST SELF"

01/11/2018 (08:30PM – 09:00PM) (Thursday): MICHAEL DEBUTS HIS NEWEST DESIGN – Michael (Ted Danson) finds himself in a bind. Meanwhile, Eleanor (Kristen Bell) sparks an idea that has Chidi (William Jackson Harper), Tahani (Jameela Jamil), Jason (Manny Jacinto) and even Janet (D’Arcy Carden) laying their feelings on the line.

"RHONDA, DIANA, JAKE AND TRENT"

01/18/2018 (08:30PM – 09:00PM) (Thursday): A CHANGE OF SCENERY MIGHT BE IN ORDER – Eleanor (Kristen Bell), Chidi (William Jackson Harper), Tahani (Jameela Jamil), Janet (D’Arcy Carden) and Jason (Manny Jacinto) head to a destination that may have lasting implications. Ted Danson also stars.”

"THE BURRITO"

01/25/2018 (08:30PM - 09:00PM) (Thursday) : HUGE STAKES HANG IN THE BALANCE FOR EVERYONE - Eleanor (Kristen Bell), Chidi (William Jackson Harper), Tahani (Jameela Jamil) and Jason (Manny Jacinto) consider just how much they have (or have not) improved. Michael (Ted Danson) is left to deal with the consequences of his recent actions. D'Arcy Carden also stars.

Edited by Notwisconsin
Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

Season finale:

"THE GOOD PLACE"
"SOMEWHERE ELSE"

02/01/2018 (08:30PM - 09:00PM) (Thursday) : MICHAEL MAKES A PLEA AND ELEANOR LOOKS TO TAKE THE HIGH ROAD IN THE
 SEASON TWO FINALE - Michael (Ted Danson) tries to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Kristen Bell, Jameela Jamil, William Jackson Harper, Manny Jacinto and D'Arcy Carden also star.

Dots And Stripes

Dots And Stripes

From a Vulture interview with Jameela Jamil:

Quote

I’m eagerly anticipating the arrival of this Eternal Judge!
You’re in for a very big treat. You won’t believe it. I’m not allowed to say who it is, but you’re going to shit your pants. Sorry, shirt your pants. It’s funny because I asked D’Arcy [Carden] the week before, “Who would you most like to work with in the world?” And she said someone’s name, and then a week later we found out that person would be joining the cast. Now I think D’Arcy’s a witch. I’m not even overhyping it, it’s so insane. I’m privileged to be a part of this mad journey.

So we know 1) the Eternal Judge appears this season and 2) he or she is played by someone famous. I think my Amy Poehler wish is possible in part because she was a founding member of UCB and D'Arcy is a UCB alum. Of course there is also the Schur connection to Poehler. I wonder if D'Arcy has ever spoken about who her showbiz idols are.

I also wonder about gender. Jameela didn't give that away at all. Most of powerful demons we have met are men (Shawn, Trevor, Michael) and the one good place architect we saw in Mindy St. Clair's intro video was a woman. I wouldn't be surprised if Schur cast a woman as eternal judge.

CherithCutestory

CherithCutestory

(edited)
1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Vulture speculated about the identity of the Eternal Judge. They also consider Amy and Oprah. The Bill Murray and Weird Al theories are interesting.

I  hope they save Bill Murray for God. Not because of my love of Bill Murray (I mean I like him fine but I'm not one of those people who think he's like a god) but because he's perfect to have invented the arbitrary, insane and indifferent universe.

A universe where basically OK people go to hell for being indecisive like Chidi or British and unbearable like Tahani is a universe where God woke up at noon, made some rules, and then got bored and went golfing. Bill Murray would be perfect. I could see him shrug and say "Just send all French people to the Bad Place" before taking a nap.

ETA: Actually, I forgot. I want God to be Original Janet (a combination of Good and Bad Janet). So never mind.

Edited by CherithCutestory
Dots And Stripes

Dots And Stripes

I’ve been wondering if I should read into Jameela using the phrase “joining the cast” in reference to the Eternal Judge. How long are they sticking around for? It’s possible she just meant joining for an episode or two, but what if this is someone we’ll see a lot of in season 3?

The show has been picked up for season 3, so we know things won’t wrap up neatly at the end of season 2. The two major throughts I’ve had are 1) Michael said the only way he knows of to get into the Good Place is to earn points on Earth. The Judge sends Team Cockroach to Earth in some capacity, maybe as guardian angels, to see if they can earn enough points, or 2) Instead of arguing Team Cockroach belongs in the Good Place, Eleanor argues the whole system is wrong and too restrictive. She seemed to realize there is a bigger problem in season 1, that it’s not just about being more good than bad. People have to be the best of the best to get into the Good Place. I could definitely see Schur going with a message that decency and doing even a little bit of good in the world matters. A related possibility is that we learn the system for determining good and bad isn’t what we think it is. Maybe more people are in the Good Place than we think.

wilnil

wilnil

1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

A related possibility is that we learn the system for determining good and bad isn’t what we think it is. Maybe more people are in the Good Place than we think.

Hmmm. Maybe you don't earn your way into the Good Place by earthly actions while you're alive, you find your path to the Good Place by your choices after you die, and what's been happening all along with Team Cockroach is simply part of their path. The idea would be that while what happens to them may be different in the details from what someone else who'd died would experience, everyone has to make their way to paradise, not just be plopped there.

Or, taking it to the extreme, you never actually get there -- "it's a journey, not a destination." Might be preferable in the long run to a "paradise" that's just having all your desires fulfilled forever, which could get old after an eon or two.

Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

(edited)
20 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

The show has been picked up for season 3, so we know things won’t wrap up neatly at the end of season 2. The two major throughts I’ve had are 1) Michael said the only way he knows of to get into the Good Place is to earn points on Earth. The Judge sends Team Cockroach to Earth in some capacity, maybe as guardian angels, to see if they can earn enough points, or 2) Instead of arguing Team Cockroach belongs in the Good Place, Eleanor argues the whole system is wrong and too restrictive. She seemed to realize there is a bigger problem in season 1, that it’s not just about being more good than bad. People have to be the best of the best to get into the Good Place. I could definitely see Schur going with a message that decency and doing even a little bit of good in the world matters. A related possibility is that we learn the system for determining good and bad isn’t what we think it is. Maybe more people are in the Good Place than we think.

As to point one: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Too damned cliché, and it's been done dozens of  times. Considering how original this is, that would be betraying the viewers.

Considering how important team Cockroach is (a cast of thousands and an entire pocket universe devoted just to them), I think they'll find out that there's going to be another humongous zag we've not considered.

As to the Eternal Judge, I figure it would be a Disney channel pre-teen starlet from one of that venue's sitcoms...or the person who plays Mindy.

Edited by Notwisconsin
adding stuff.
CherithCutestory

CherithCutestory

(edited)
Quote

A related possibility is that we learn the system for determining good and bad isn’t what we think it is. Maybe more people are in the Good Place than we think.

I never know what to think with this show but I really like this theory. I believe Michael believed his view of how the universe operated. I believe Shawn probably does too. But I think it's likely they are just cogs in the machine not privy to the higher motivations.

Even though I'm not religious, I was raised Catholic and our own upbringing will always cloud how we see these things. But in Catholicism purgatory isn't a medium place. It's a place of punishment and fire and brimstone. But with the chance of going to heaven. I don't think it's impossible that there is something along those lines going on. But it's also possible I'm just biased toward the worldview I was raised in.

Evidence for that is sparse. But there is that the demons don't actually seem to torture people for eternity. They think people get tortured for eternity but it seems that it's typical to transfer people out of their torture departments. Michael thought his plan could last a thousand years not eternity. The way they were talking at the party suggests a lot of movement going on. The demons also get moved between departments. Meaning they don't spend all of time with the souls they have. They don't necessarily know what happens when their piece is done.

Also with the traveling through the layers that seems to be happening now it's becoming more and more like its loosely based on the Divine Comedy. Of course, Dante's world includes purgatory.

It's possible that Eleanor and co. make them change their ways but I like the idea that there is more going on.

Mike Schur's worlds usually argue that people are petty, ridiculous, selfish, and flawed in various ways but ultimately decent for the most part. In this universe being just decent can damn you to an eternity in hell. I could swallow that as being true in some shows but I don't think Schur genuinely would create a universe like this. Under this system, most of the characters on Parks and Rec would be in the Bad Place. No way is that right.

Edited by CherithCutestory
Dots And Stripes

Dots And Stripes

The Good Place creator drops hint about last moment of season 2 finale

The whole article is worth a read, but I figured I would highlight this part:

Quote

Schur, of course, is playing it close to the Jags jersey about the final moments of the episode, but you might want to re-read this hint a few times: “The very, very last thing that happens in this season is a pretty perfect bookend as it relates to the first thing that happens in the season. It feels like a completed journey in some way. Not completed like the show’s over, mind you, it’s not a series finale. It makes a lot of sense given what happened at the beginning of the year.” Don’t fork up and miss the show’s final “holy shirt!” moment of the season.

*As a bonus preview gift for you, we asked Schur to offer up one-word finale teases for each character:

Michael: “Risk-taker.”
Eleanor: “Team.”
Chidi: “Fork.”
Tahani: “Friendship.”
Jason: “Word?”
Janet: “Blunt.”
Jen: “Goosebumps.”

Erin

Erin

(edited)
1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

The Good Place creator drops hint about last moment of season 2 finale

“The very, very last thing that happens in this season is a pretty perfect bookend as it relates to the first thing that happens in the season. It feels like a completed journey in some way. Not completed like the show’s over, mind you, it’s not a series finale. It makes a lot of sense given what happened at the beginning of the year.”

So, the first thing that happened this season, other than the "previously on"s, was that Michael psyched himself up ("project confidence, Mikey") and talked to Shawn, right?

What do we think the end is going to be, given that? Michael talking to Shawn again for some reason? Michael preparing to talk to some group of demons (and/or angels?) about starting a new place? Michael is now the boss and someone is psyching themself up to talk to him?

I guess we'll know soon enough... and then have months to wonder what will happen next!

Edited by Erin
Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

(edited)

This does not look very good:

Jeremy Bearimy

(season 3, episode 4)

Eleanor and the gang explore the three main branches of ethical thought after learning the truth about their history with Michael and Janet.

The Ballad of Donkey Doug

  (season 3, episode 5)

Michael and Tahani join Jason for a mission to Florida to help some people from Jason's past, while Janet creates a virtual reality simulation to help Chidi resolve a problem.

A Fractured Inheritance

(season 3, episode 6)

Eleanor makes a startling discovery when she travels with Michael to Nevada to confront the mother she believed was dead; Tahani struggles to make amends with her sister. or...

Eleanor makes a startling discovery that tests her resolve, Tahani looks to make amends and Janet does some bonding.

"Touched by an Angel?" Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!

Edited by Notwisconsin
neccessary additions.
Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

(edited)

Episode 9: Janet(s)

Eleanor, Chidi, Tahani and Jason are now in Janet's world, an endless void, made necessary when Shawn's minion demons came a calling out of his makeshift portal. It's up to her to protect them while Michael tries to get information on just how the points system works for Good Place/Bad Place separation from the former's accountant who assigns said points.

Edited by Notwisconsin
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Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

(edited)

Episode 10: The Book Of Dougs

Michael presents his case to the Good Place Committee; Chidi tries to calm Eleanor down; Tahani struggles to help Jason and Janet.

Michael's resolve is put to the test. Meanwhile, Jason wrestles with his feelings and Chidi surprises Eleanor.

Episode 11: Chidi Sees the Time-Knife

Episode 12: Pandemonium

Pandemonium, according to christian mythology, is the capital city of Hell. It also sometimes means "chaos" or "All Hell breaks loose."

Edited by Notwisconsin
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