S08.E23: Reunion Part 3

[WireWrap]

37 minutes ago, Jel said:

Honestly, Yours Truly, at this point I pretty much forget what happened  -- Bethenny said some nasty and vile and ott things to Lu and about Lu...that much I remember. But the reeking havoc in her life? Isn't Bethenny the one who looks bad in that scenario? Do any of us think Lu is a slut or a whore or a fuckdoll? No. But does anyone think Bethenny is a horrible person? Can't answer "no" to that one! Did Lu lose any fans because Bethenny called her names and screamed at her? I don't think so, in fact, she may have gained some. But what about Beth -- did Bethenny lose any fans and /or goodwill amongst viewers? If you read this forum, I think she did.  So who did she really damage here -- wasn't Lu.

Yes, I do agree that Bethenny lost a few fans but that is solely her own fault. She wrote in her blog that she got to Dorinda's house in a bad mood and lit into Luann, she had no real reason to fight with anyone other than she had had a bad day. What her excuse is for not sincerely apologizing to Luann is beyond me or her continued nastiness towards Luann for that matter.

That said, just because Luann didn't burst into tears doesn't mean her feelings weren't hurt or that she felt insulted by Bethenny's name calling because she didn't slap the snot out of her. I think anyone would feel both hurt and insulted with a bit of humiliation added in but MMV and all.

Also, the pages and pages here on PTV debating the merits of Bethenny's rant against Luann, shows that some here approved what Bethenny said/did on some level, so, I don't think she lost all that many supporters in the long run.

Again, any switch in viewer loyalty/approval from team Bethenny is her own fault, no one else's. LOL

[zoeysmom]

54 minutes ago, Jel said:

Honestly, Yours Truly, at this point I pretty much forget what happened  -- Bethenny said some nasty and vile and ott things to Lu and about Lu...that much I remember. But the reeking havoc in her life? Isn't Bethenny the one who looks bad in that scenario? Do any of us think Lu is a slut or a whore or a fuckdoll? No. But does anyone think Bethenny is a horrible person? Can't answer "no" to that one! Did Lu lose any fans because Bethenny called her names and screamed at her? I don't think so, in fact, she may have gained some. But what about Beth -- did Bethenny lose any fans and /or goodwill amongst viewers? If you read this forum, I think she did.  So who did she really damage here -- wasn't Lu.

Well we did hear Luann say, she had to tell her son, and Tom's parents, in the event it became a news item instead of something that could be handled between Tom and Luann-had Bethenny notified her privately.  Since July, every news item about Luann has included Tom's cheating, so first she has to break through the cheating stuff, that Bethenny  and Bethenny alone made public before she can talk about her launch or her wedding.  I would think privately when she returned from the Berkshires there may have been some discussion with Tom about what went down.   

It is kind of like saying when someone commits suicide they only hurt themselves.  Their parents, spouse, and children may feel differently.   I guess if the survivors are smokers they wouldn't feel any emotions with their tar encrusted hearts.

[Celia Rubenstein]

39 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Cause being subjected to the ranting and raving of Beth..

The bullshit crazy from Ramona...

The shade from Sonja...

and the Condescending attitude of Carole..

Couldn't ever affect someone's emotional state?

Being embarrassed isn't hurtful? Oh I get it now it's a semantics thing. Whatev.

Even fuckers I don't like or care about can cause anxiety (which isn't a fun emotion, not exactly the same as "hurt" but still #semantics) if they are filling the room with negative energy and then aiming it at me.

Now the fact that Lu is able to limit her reactions doesn't mean they aren't there.

Hell even I was cringing through all the bullshit I've seen hurled at her and it doesn't have anything to do with ME.

You seem to be taking this personally and over-identifying with Luann quite a bit,  thinking how you would feel if you were in Luann's shoes.  But I think Luann is a lot tougher than you are giving her credit for being.

Me?  I just go by what I have seen and prefer not to read anything into it about how she "must" feel because I myself would feel a certain way.  I guess I am just a little more detached.  

That's why I'm not cringing over anything I see Luann experience ... there's just no need. 

36 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I was talking about the lack of compassion among the women.

Interesting you took it like that tho.

Right.  Look, the mods are being really cool letting us meander around in this thread.  Let's not mess it up for everyone by starting in the with the passive aggressive digs, ok?  People don't always agree.  Just let it go. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[Yours Truly]

19 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

You seem to be taking this personally and over-identifying with Luann quite a bit,  thinking how you would feel if you were in Luann's shoes.  But I think Luann is a lot tougher than you are giving her credit for being.

Me?  I just go by what I have seen and prefer not to read anything into it about how she "must" feel because I myself would feel a certain way.  I guess I am just a little more detached.  

That's why I'm not cringing over anything I see Luann experience ... there's just no need. 

Right.  Look, the mods are being really cool letting us meander around in this thread.  Let's not mess it up for everyone by starting in the with the passive aggressive digs, ok?  People don't always agree.  Just let it go. 

I see things in a more compassionate way true. I try not to be willfully blinded by semantics. I relate a lot to Lu cause I see a lot of similarities but the same way u can assume there's nothing to it in Lu's mind and she's walking around like Teflon I can assert that the average human being isn't gonna just take all these hits straight to the jaw and be completely unaffected. That's just not realistic. Like at all... 

So there ya go. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Celia Rubenstein]

Yeah, there you go.

I guess to me it's just a TV show and if watching it upset me that much, I wouldn't watch it anymore.  Got enough going on in my own real life without worrying about some rich old bag in NYC getting her nonexistent feelings hurt, lol. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[Yours Truly]

Que cera cera

or one of my more favorite Countess quotes 

Chic, C'est la vie!

???

[Jel]

50 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Well we did hear Luann say, she had to tell her son, and Tom's parents, in the event it became a news item instead of something that could be handled between Tom and Luann-had Bethenny notified her privately.  Since July, every news item about Luann has included Tom's cheating, so first she has to break through the cheating stuff, that Bethenny  and Bethenny alone made public before she can talk about her launch or her wedding.  I would think privately when she returned from the Berkshires there may have been some discussion with Tom about what went down.   

It is kind of like saying when someone commits suicide they only hurt themselves.  Their parents, spouse, and children may feel differently.   I guess if the survivors are smokers they wouldn't feel any emotions with their tar encrusted hearts.

Aw come on now--the thing that was hard to tell her mom and son was the cheating--that's on Tom.  If Bethenny said it nicer, more privately or not at all, Lu's fiance still cheated. That is the real problem here.

I'm not saying Bethenny wasn't an asshole to call Luann slut/whore/fuck doll etc -- she was most definitely an asshole to do that. But, if there are any long term, life havoc wreaking events over that particular issue they fall on Bethenny.

It's not like a suicide and its survivors, though; it was a rude, mean, nasty outburst (or several), but as adults, we know that it's Bethenny who looks bad there, not Lu. It may have hurt in the moment, I could see it was embarassing, but Lu has awesome water-off-a-duck's-back thing, so she probably got over it quickly, and I can't see that any attempts at slut shaming Luann worked or made her look bad, so I honestly don't see any havoc wreaked or otherwise. 

I dunno--are we somehow talking about different things?  I think I'm lost.

(Sorry, didn't get the smoker thing...)

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 minutes ago, Jel said:

Aw come on now--the thing that was hard to tell her mom and son was the cheating--that's on Tom.  If Bethenny said it nicer, more privately or not at all, Lu's fiance still cheated. That is the real problem here.

Isn't it weird that the focus of all the discussion is not about how Tom cheated but instead is on how Bethenny broke the news? If this happened to people I actually knew, I know we would be more concerned over the cheating itself and the chick who broke the news and how she did it would be a minor side issue. 

 

Quote

It's not like a suicide and its survivors, though; it was a rude, mean, nasty outburst (or several), but as adults, we know that it's Bethenny who looks bad there, not Lu. It may have hurt in the moment, I could see it was embarassing, but Lu has awesome water-off-a-duck's-back thing, so she probably got over it quickly, and I can't see that any attempts at slut shaming Luann worked or made her look bad, so I honestly don't see any havoc wreaked or otherwise. 

That's the perfect way to describe her.  Some people might be shattered if this happened to them, but not Luann.  She's tough and resilient and I think all this has barely caused her a ripple of distress.  More than anything, I think she was just embarrassed.  And even that passed quickly.

[Jel]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, I do agree that Bethenny lost a few fans but that is solely her own fault. She wrote in her blog that she got to Dorinda's house in a bad mood and lit into Luann, she had no real reason to fight with anyone other than she had had a bad day. What her excuse is for not sincerely apologizing to Luann is beyond me or her continued nastiness towards Luann for that matter.

That said, just because Luann didn't burst into tears doesn't mean her feelings weren't hurt or that she felt insulted by Bethenny's name calling because she didn't slap the snot out of her. I think anyone would feel both hurt and insulted with a bit of humiliation added in but MMV and all.

Also, the pages and pages here on PTV debating the merits of Bethenny's rant against Luann, shows that some here approved what Bethenny said/did on some level, so, I don't think she lost all that many supporters in the long run.

Again, any switch in viewer loyalty/approval from team Bethenny is her own fault, no one else's. LOL

Agree with you 100% on that!

Agree she could have had her feelings hurt.

But, who looked bad in that exchange, collected "wtf?" Lu, or screaming harpy Bethenny?

[Trooper York]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while but I would have to call this last episode of the Reunion the most appropriate synonym for a boring stupid piece of crap: 

.

[Jel]

4 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Isn't it weird that the focus of all the discussion is not about how Tom cheated but instead is on how Bethenny broke the news? If this happened to people I actually knew, I know we would be more concerned over the cheating itself and the chick who broke the news and how she did it would be a minor side issue. 

 

Yes! I don't get it either.  In my RL, the mean girl way of breaking the news would be, exactly, a side issue, and met with something like, "Pfft, what a bitch!" and then back to the real story, which is the cheating fiance.

[Celia Rubenstein]

It really makes me wish Dorinda had gone to meet with Tom and his hired pack of liars the waiters so there would have been more material that was specifically related to him aired.  Maybe it would have kept some of the focus where it belonged - on what a piece of crap that guy is, how he cheated and tried to bully Dorinda into spreading his lies around to cover up.  That would have been so much more interesting than the listening to the same old tired Bethenny-is-such-a-evil-bitch broken record played over and over.

[WireWrap]

36 minutes ago, Jel said:

Agree with you 100% on that!

Agree she could have had her feelings hurt.

But, who looked bad in that exchange, collected "wtf?" Lu, or screaming harpy Bethenny?

Yes, Bethenny looked bad when we all got to see the footage but when it was happening IRL, it was Luann that got hurt, demoralized, humiliated. I don't think either of these women were thinking "What will the viewers think/feel" while it was happening. Now of course, Bethenny is trying to do spin control, saying that she "only" attacked someone "after" they came for her business/brand, which is a bold face lie. LOL Bethenny has to realize that "you reap what you sow" before she destroys everything she has built and to stop blaming others for her own OTT bad behavior.

[Yours Truly]

On 9/22/2016 at 7:16 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

Isn't it weird that the focus of all the discussion is not about how Tom cheated but instead is on how Bethenny broke the news? 

Well cause it was mean.

Pretty simple actually. Even for the simplest of simple.

[WireWrap]

55 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Isn't it weird that the focus of all the discussion is not about how Tom cheated but instead is on how Bethenny broke the news? If this happened to people I actually knew, I know we would be more concerned over the cheating itself and the chick who broke the news and how she did it would be a minor side issue. 

 

 

There is no debate about Tom cheating, it happened. He admits to it and apologized for it and for hurting Luann. What I find weird is this notion that Luann could not and was not hurt by how Bethenny handled this, because she was. She was the victim of Tom's cheating and of Bethenny' s callous actions in revealing the cheating. No matter how we slice it, bottom line, Luann was/is the injured party, not Bethenny, Ramona or Sonja......just Luann.  

[Jel]

No one is saying Bethenny is the injured party. When I talk about how she made herself look bad, it's only as a way to illustrate that her attempts at slut shaming Lu not only failed, but backfired. It's not to say, poor Bethenny; it's more to say, epic fail Bethenny, which, yesh, she brought on herself. No question about that.

[WireWrap]

20 minutes ago, Jel said:

No one is saying Bethenny is the injured party. When I talk about how she made herself look bad, it's only as a way to illustrate that her attempts at slut shaming Lu not only failed, but backfired. It's not to say, poor Bethenny; it's more to say, epic fail Bethenny, which, yesh, she brought on herself. No question about that.

Actually, if you back and read some of the last 30 or so posts, some are saying that what Bethenny did to Luann did not hurt her, not your specific posts but others. That said,  Sorry, my post was not aimed at you but in general.

[Jel]

1 minute ago, WireWrap said:

Actually, if you back and read some of the last 30 or so posts, some are saying that what Bethenny did to Luann did not hurt her, not your specific posts but others. That said,  Sorry, my post was not aimed at you but in general.

Okay, I agree, but saying "what Beth did to Lu didn't hurt her" isn't the same as saying Bethenny is the injured party--that's a big leap that no one was making, right?

Concurrence on that?

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

Aw come on now--the thing that was hard to tell her mom and son was the cheating--that's on Tom.  If Bethenny said it nicer, more privately or not at all, Lu's fiance still cheated. That is the real problem here.

I'm not saying Bethenny wasn't an asshole to call Luann slut/whore/fuck doll etc -- she was most definitely an asshole to do that. But, if there are any long term, life havoc wreaking events over that particular issue they fall on Bethenny.

It's not like a suicide and its survivors, though; it was a rude, mean, nasty outburst (or several), but as adults, we know that it's Bethenny who looks bad there, not Lu. It may have hurt in the moment, I could see it was embarassing, but Lu has awesome water-off-a-duck's-back thing, so she probably got over it quickly, and I can't see that any attempts at slut shaming Luann worked or made her look bad, so I honestly don't see any havoc wreaked or otherwise. 

I dunno--are we somehow talking about different things?  I think I'm lost.

(Sorry, didn't get the smoker thing...)

In a normal adult relationship if someone is caught cheating, usually the kids and parents don't have to be advised-it is handled between the partners if they decide to stay together. If they go their separate ways maybe they are told the reason. Because it was revealed on camera Tom, who is totally at fault, put Luann in the position of having to tell her children, mom and he had to tell his parents.  I consider it a pretty big deal when if I had to go to my parent(s) and children and tell them what happened.  It can just be a whole lot of needless conversation and questioning of one's judgment.  Havoc may be a subjective term but I guarantee you each time Luann had to repeat the story it hurt.

Tom cheated, how many people need to beat him up about it?  There is only one that really counts and that is Luann and if she forgave him, why can't others accept her decision to move on? It is not as if he burned a church down.  He kissed, apparently repeatedly a old girlfriend in public. 

Luann still mentions it and Bethenny did humiliate her.  Granted Luann has a way in Bethenny's words of "being resilent" (Bethenny justification for going after Luann) but it still hurts and to add insult to injury Bethenny and Carole then giggled and carried on how they were so far above Luann they would never speak to someone who said the things Bethenny said to Luann again. 

Sometimes I think because most of us don't rant and read people at the drop of hat over frustrations with them, that in the scheme of things are pretty minor, it is easy to say, "oh the ranter looked so much worse than the receiver."  There were people saying, "Luann deserved it," Bethenny took several victory laps and feigned not knowing what "slut shaming" is.  She is a hypocrite shamer.  So I don't think Luann gets a whole lot of solace in -she looked worse than I did because she was so mean.  Bethenny stood by her words, there was never an apology just more war and more Bozo moves.  The bigger question is why?  Oh it's a sham marriage, it's a storyline. Six months later Bethenny was till singing the same tune. 

The smoker thing was in reference to Luann not have any emotions because her heart was wrapped in tar from her smoking habit.  Not my words but another example of how it is okay to demean someone because another doesn't think they have the capacity to feel or hurt.

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

In a normal adult relationship if someone is caught cheating, usually the kids and parents don't have to be advised-it is handled between the partners if they decide to stay together. If they go their separate ways maybe they are told the reason. Because it was revealed on camera Tom, who is totally at fault, put Luann in the position of having to tell her children, mom and he had to tell his parents.  I consider it a pretty big deal when if I had to go to my parent(s) and children and tell them what happened.  It can just be a whole lot of needless conversation and questioning of one's judgment.  Havoc may be a subjective term but I guarantee you each time Luann had to repeat the story it hurt.

Tom cheated, how many people need to beat him up about it?  There is only one that really counts and that is Luann and if she forgave him, why can't others accept her decision to move on? It is not as if he burned a church down.  He kissed, apparently repeatedly a old girlfriend in public. 

Luann still mentions it and Bethenny did humiliate her.  Granted Luann has a way in Bethenny's words of "being resilent" (Bethenny justification for going after Luann) but it still hurts and to add insult to injury Bethenny and Carole then giggled and carried on how they were so far above Luann they would never speak to someone who said the things Bethenny said to Luann again. 

Sometimes I think because most of us don't rant and read people at the drop of hat over frustrations with them, that in the scheme of things are pretty minor, it is easy to say, "oh the ranter looked so much worse than the receiver."  There were people saying, "Luann deserved it," Bethenny took several victory laps and feigned not knowing what "slut shaming" is.  She is a hypocrite shamer.  So I don't think Luann gets a whole lot of solace in -she looked worse than I did because she was so mean.  Bethenny stood by her words, there was never an apology just more war and more Bozo moves.  The bigger question is why?  Oh it's a sham marriage, it's a storyline. Six months later Bethenny was till singing the same tune. 

The smoker thing was in reference to Luann not have any emotions because her heart was wrapped in tar from her smoking habit.  Not my words but another example of how it is okay to demean someone because another doesn't think they have the capacity to feel or hurt.

More than the people who are beating up Bethenny for the way she delivered the news. A lot more! The cheating is the way bigger problem. Would you rather have your fiance cheat on you or have a co-worker/fake friend say nasty things about you? If I have to pick, I'll take the nasty comments over the cheating any day.

Is it because Tom apologized and Bethenny didn't -- is that the sticking point we are having? If Bethenny had a sudden about face and sincerely apologized to Lu and never did it again, would the cheating then resume its (imo rightful) place as the bigger issue?  

[Celia Rubenstein]

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

There is no debate about Tom cheating, it happened. He admits to it and apologized for it and for hurting Luann. 

Are you suggesting that should be the end of talking about it? It wouldn't be where I come from.  It would just be the beginning, lol.  

Actually, what I was talking about in my post that you quoted was if this happened to people I actually knew ... I think my friends and I would find the subject of the cheating to be a more compelling discussion topic than (as Jel put it, lol) the "mean girl way" the woman found out.  Nobody would care about that part, it would be a total footnote to the major story.  And even if the guy admitted it and apologized, etc. the cheating would still be worthy of discussion (okay gossip), not just instantly relegated to history as you seem to feel the Tom cheated discussion ought to be just because he said "I sawwy ."  Not a chance. 

But let's talk about Tom's cheating for a minute ... even though he apologized ... whatever ... wouldn't the women want to talk about who the other woman was, what their relationship was, does anyone know if he has done this before, what do you think the likelihood of him doing it again is?   And the whole subject of how Luann went to a hotel (supposedly) then was in on calling Dorinda to cook up a story, and how she's still going to marry this creep.  All that passed by in a blur when to me that is WAY more interesting than stupid Bethenny's role.  It would have been far more interesting to watch THAT broken down over three episodes than Bethenny parade around in a thong debating how to break it to Luann.  They should have condensed that crap into one episode and spent the rest of the season dealing with the fallout.  You know, like would have happened in real life. 

But I guess that would have been too "real" for the Real Housewives.  And lord knows Andy Cohen lives to watch women have catfights and screech and call names and slam doors etc so it's not a surprise the focus of the show is nothing like what would happen in real life.  His misogynistic fantasies of what women are like must be in the forefront at all times. 

 

37 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Well cause it was mean.

Pretty simple actually. Even for the simplest of simple.. 

See, this is a perfect example of what bugs me about these shows ... it's the assumption that the supposed meanness of women is what is most interesting about them.  That women being mean to each other is what other women want to see and talk about. I don't think it is. 

I don't think the reason the women on the show are focusing on Bethenny being mean is because that is what is most interesting to them. It's just what Bravo has picked out to focus on.  And I don't think Bethenny being mean is the topic clogging this board because it's what the women (and two dudes) here are most interested in.  It's because it's what Bravo made the show about so it's what there is to discuss.  Sorry, but the idea that women being mean to each other is this fascinating subject which is so much more interesting than anything else so OF COURSE that's why they are talking about it is nonsense. Maybe some people actually do find the subject captivating but most women I know DON'T.

 

7 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Luann still mentions it and Bethenny did humiliate her. 

The smoker thing was in reference to Luann not have any emotions because her heart was wrapped in tar from her smoking habit.  Not my words but another example of how it is okay to demean someone because another doesn't think they have the capacity to feel or hurt.

I never said it was okay to try to hurt someone.  I simply don't believe that Luann is this fragile snowflake that was destroyed by all this the way some believe she was.  Period.

And for the record, it was TOM who humiliated Luann. Not Bethenny.

[zoeysmom]

4 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Are you suggesting that should be the end of talking about it? It wouldn't be where I come from.  It would just be the beginning, lol.  

Actually, what I was talking about in my post that you quoted was if this happened to people I actually knew ... I think my friends and I would find the subject of the cheating to be a more compelling discussion topic than (as Jel put it, lol) the "mean girl way" the woman found out.  Nobody would care about that part, it would be a total footnote to the major story.  And even if the guy admitted it and apologized, etc. the cheating would still be worthy of discussion (okay gossip), not just instantly relegated to history as you seem to feel the Tom cheated discussion ought to be just because he said "I sawwy ."  Not a chance. 

But let's talk about Tom's cheating for a minute ... even though he apologized ... whatever ... wouldn't the women want to talk about who the other woman was, what their relationship was, does anyone know if he has done this before, what do you think the likelihood of him doing it again is?   And the whole subject of how Luann went to a hotel (supposedly) then was in on calling Dorinda to cook up a story, and how she's still going to marry this creep.  All that passed by in a blur when to me that is WAY more interesting than stupid Bethenny's role.  It would have been far more interesting to watch THAT broken down over three episodes than Bethenny parade around in a thong debating how to break it to Luann.  They should have condensed that crap into one episode and spent the rest of the season dealing with the fallout.  You know, like would have happened in real life. 

But I guess that would have been too "real" for the Real Housewives.  And lord knows Andy Cohen lives to watch women have catfights and screech and call names and slam doors etc so it's not a surprise the focus of the show is nothing like what would happen in real life.  His misogynistic fantasies of what women are like must be in the forefront at all times. 

 

See, this is a perfect example of what bugs me about these shows ... it's the assumption that the supposed meanness of women is what is most interesting about them.  That women being mean to each other is what other women want to see and talk about. I don't think it is. 

I don't think the reason the women on the show are focusing on Bethenny being mean is because that is what is most interesting to them. It's just what Bravo has picked out to focus on.  And I don't think Bethenny being mean is the topic clogging this board because it's what the women (and two dudes) here are most interested in.  It's because it's what Bravo made the show about so it's what there is to discuss.  Sorry, but the idea that women being mean to each other is this fascinating subject which is so much more interesting than anything else so OF COURSE that's why they are talking about it is nonsense. Maybe some people actually do find the subject captivating but most women I know DON'T.

 

I never said it was okay to try to hurt someone.  I simply don't believe that Luann is this fragile snowflake that was destroyed by all this the way some believe she was.  Period.

And for the record, it was TOM who humiliated Luann. Not Bethenny.

I believe Bethenny dealt a fair amount of humiliation Luann's way.  There isn't just one culprit.  Luann said Tom humiliated her. Maybe had Bethenny not said she was "gloating" over the photographs or said ragarding Luann, "she is just a whore."  Bethenny humiliated Luann and continues to do so every time she weighs in on her wedding.

[Lisin]

Ok everyone. Please remember the "everyone is allowed to have their own opinions" etc. take a breath and be nice to each other please!!!

[Celia Rubenstein]

3 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I relate a lot to Lu cause I see a lot of similarities but the same way u can assume there's nothing to it in Lu's mind and she's walking around like Teflon I can assert that the average human being isn't gonna just take all these hits straight to the jaw and be completely unaffected. 

You are not actually implying The Countess is an average human being, are you?  LOL better not let her hear you say that! 

 

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

 Bethenny humiliated Luann and continues to do so every time she weighs in on her wedding.

You are setting the bar for humiliation just a little bit low for my tastes with that observation.  I think Luann can take it. 

[zoeysmom]

22 minutes ago, Jel said:

More than the people who are beating up Bethenny for the way she delivered the news. A lot more! The cheating is the way bigger problem. Would you rather have your fiance cheat on you or have a co-worker/fake friend say nasty things about you? If I have to pick, I'll take the nasty comments over the cheating any day.

Is it because Tom apologized and Bethenny didn't -- is that the sticking point we are having? If Bethenny had a sudden about face and sincerely apologized to Lu and never did it again, would the cheating then resume its (imo rightful) place as the bigger issue?  

I don't think that is the sticking point.  The sticking point is Tom cheated Luann forgave-she didn't forgive for all future cheating he may or may not engage in.   Bethenny went in hard about Tom, essentially saying he was just waiting to find someone to marry him, he dated rich women and had no real money of his own, he didn't have as much money as Luann, the going to the press and discussing  and Ramona and Sonja, saying it is a sham marriage. 

The cheating issue was resolved but Bethenny's mouth works overtime.  Obviously Tom and Luann can elect to ignore Bethenny except she keeps saying things like the only way she will go to the wedding is for a very large appearance fee.  How about an invitation, bitch?  Or does Beth need a refresher course in etiquette.  You are NFI-not fucking invited.  Step off the bridal train.

[zoeysmom]

11 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

 

You are setting the bar for humiliation just a little bit low for my tastes with that observation.  I think Luann can take it. 

So why can't Bethenny just let Luann and Tom have their wedding without commenting?  Maybe Luann is tired of Bethenny talking about her upcoming marriage-it is never positive. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

Okay, I agree, but saying "what Beth did to Lu didn't hurt her" isn't the same as saying Bethenny is the injured party--that's a big leap that no one was making, right?

Concurrence on that?

I don't think anyone said that Bethenny was the "injured" party in this but it has been said that Luann wasn't hurt by Bethenny's actions and I strongly disagree with that. LOL

[jinjer]

Oh Bethenny was hurt all right!  Didn't you see her hands shaking and her crying and moaning and rolling around in the sheets? She needs another drink!!

[WireWrap]

56 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Are you suggesting that should be the end of talking about it? It wouldn't be where I come from.  It would just be the beginning, lol.  

Actually, what I was talking about in my post that you quoted was if this happened to people I actually knew ... I think my friends and I would find the subject of the cheating to be a more compelling discussion topic than (as Jel put it, lol) the "mean girl way" the woman found out.  Nobody would care about that part, it would be a total footnote to the major story.  And even if the guy admitted it and apologized, etc. the cheating would still be worthy of discussion (okay gossip), not just instantly relegated to history as you seem to feel the Tom cheated discussion ought to be just because he said "I sawwy ."  Not a chance. 

But let's talk about Tom's cheating for a minute ... even though he apologized ... whatever ... wouldn't the women want to talk about who the other woman was, what their relationship was, does anyone know if he has done this before, what do you think the likelihood of him doing it again is?   And the whole subject of how Luann went to a hotel (supposedly) then was in on calling Dorinda to cook up a story, and how she's still going to marry this creep.  All that passed by in a blur when to me that is WAY more interesting than stupid Bethenny's role.  It would have been far more interesting to watch THAT broken down over three episodes than Bethenny parade around in a thong debating how to break it to Luann.  They should have condensed that crap into one episode and spent the rest of the season dealing with the fallout.  You know, like would have happened in real life. 

But I guess that would have been too "real" for the Real Housewives.  And lord knows Andy Cohen lives to watch women have catfights and screech and call names and slam doors etc so it's not a surprise the focus of the show is nothing like what would happen in real life.  His misogynistic fantasies of what women are like must be in the forefront at all times. 

 

See, this is a perfect example of what bugs me about these shows ... it's the assumption that the supposed meanness of women is what is most interesting about them.  That women being mean to each other is what other women want to see and talk about. I don't think it is. 

I don't think the reason the women on the show are focusing on Bethenny being mean is because that is what is most interesting to them. It's just what Bravo has picked out to focus on.  And I don't think Bethenny being mean is the topic clogging this board because it's what the women (and two dudes) here are most interested in.  It's because it's what Bravo made the show about so it's what there is to discuss.  Sorry, but the idea that women being mean to each other is this fascinating subject which is so much more interesting than anything else so OF COURSE that's why they are talking about it is nonsense. Maybe some people actually do find the subject captivating but most women I know DON'T.

 

I never said it was okay to try to hurt someone.  I simply don't believe that Luann is this fragile snowflake that was destroyed by all this the way some believe she was.  Period.

And for the record, it was TOM who humiliated Luann. Not Bethenny.

Now, lets put "your" friend in a true comparable situation. Lets say your friends fiancé cheated on her by kissing another woman (no sex though) but then someone none of you like, her co-worker, not only told her close friends, who also dislike your friend, she also took an add out in the local papers, front page, and made that announcement and also called her a whore in that add about your friend. That would be comparable and I don't think you as a real friend would be all too happy with the nasty co worker who made the announcement in the papers to further hurt/humiliate you friend. Yes, Tom hurt/humiliated Luann but Bethenny sure compounded it by adding on the Luann's hurt/humiliation. I couldn't forgive Tom as Luann did but I also wouldn't forgive Bethenny for the way she told everyone/me either because it was done in a deliberate hurtful way. Bethenny's nasty behavior does not cancel out what Tom did but Tom's behavior doesn't negate what and how Bethenny chose to deliver the news either.

I also don't think Luann is some "fragile snowflake" either but I also don't think she is some hard wall that can't or wasn't hurt by Bethenny's nasty, gleeful behavior either.

Again, Tom did the initial betrayal but Bethenny compounded Luann's pain/humiliation and she did so with glee.  

 

1 minute ago, jinjer said:

Oh Bethenny was hurt all right!  Didn't you see her hands shaking and her crying and moaning and rolling around in the sheets? She needs another drink!!

LOL, I saw that and IMO, she realized that she was wrong, that Luann wasn't faking an engagement with Tom, that she really did love him and she, Bethenny, was going to take a big hit viewer/fan wise for her actions. She was hurting/crying/shaking for herself and any possible SKG $$$$/sales loss, not for Luann. LOL

[Trooper York]

I agree with our esteemed moderator. Can't we all just get along and unite in our utter disdain for Bethenny and Carole.

Com'on people get with it!

[Celia Rubenstein]

8 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Now, lets put "your" friend in a true comparable situation. Lets say your friends fiancé cheated on her by kissing another woman (no sex though) but then someone none of you like, her co-worker, not only told her close friends, who also dislike your friend, she also took an add out in the local papers, front page, and made that announcement and also called her a whore in that add about your friend. That would be comparable and I don't think you as a real friend would be all too happy with the nasty co worker who made the announcement in the papers to further hurt/humiliate you friend. 

If my friend had some job that was comparable to Luann and required being in the public eye and she knew damn well that this kind of thing was not only encouraged but practically required in their workplace and I also knew that by being a real bitch to everyone around her she had not done much to protect herself from such treatment, I would have to look her in the face and tell her she had completely left herself open to such a thing by working where she does and treating people like they were less-than.  Maybe not the day-of because I am not totally heartless, but later if she persisted in complaining about it. Because it would be the truth. 

Then we'd go key the bitch's car and get drunk, lol.  haha just kidding ... Of course we would all talk about the mean woman who did it.  For a while.  But it would quickly pass.  What my friend was going through would be what I think we would focus on more. There just isn't really that much to say about it once you've ragged on the woman for a while.  But my friend throwing her life away on some cheating loser is something that is going to be an issue for years.  That would be worth spending time on.  

I think if Luann was really all that hurt by what Tom did, she would be more focussed on that and less on Bethenny.  But I don't think what Tom did really hurt her all that much, either, to be honest.  She just seemed embarrassed more than anything.  It's a big part of the reason why I can't take any of this too seriously. 

The episode should have come with an advisory that "no Real Housewives were actually harmed during the making of this episode" like they do on shows with animals just so you know everything you are seeing is fake. 

 

46 minutes ago, jinjer said:

Oh Bethenny was hurt all right!  Didn't you see her hands shaking and her crying and moaning and rolling around in the sheets? She needs another drink!!

If anyone was humiliated on the show, it was Bethenny doing it to herself in that scene.  It was the most preposterous, ridiculous thing I've ever seen. I can't think about it without laughing.  Thanks for reminding me of it, jinger! 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

If my friend had some job that was comparable to Luann and required being in the public eye and she knew damn well that this kind of thing was not only encouraged but practically required in their workplace and I also knew that by being a real bitch to everyone around her she had not done much to protect herself from such treatment, I would have to look her in the face and tell her she had completely left herself open to such a thing by working where she does and treating people like they were less-than.  Maybe not the day-of because I am not totally heartless, but later if she persisted in complaining about it. Because it would be the truth. 

Then we'd go key the bitch's car and get drunk, lol.  haha just kidding ... Of course we would all talk about the mean woman who did it.  For a while.  But it would quickly pass.  What my friend was going through would be what I think we would focus on more. There just isn't really that much to say about it once you've ragged on the woman for a while.  But my friend throwing her life away on some cheating loser is something that is going to be an issue for years.  That would be worth spending time on.  

I think if Luann was really all that hurt by what Tom did, she would be more focussed on that and less on Bethenny.  But I don't think what Tom did really hurt her all that much, either, to be honest.  She just seemed embarrassed more than anything.  It's a big part of the reason why I can't take any of this too seriously. 

The episode should have come with an advisory that "no Real Housewives were actually harmed during the making of this episode" like they do on shows with animals just so you know everything you are seeing is fake. 

 

If anyone was humiliated on the show, it was Bethenny doing it to herself in that scene.  It was the most preposterous, ridiculous thing I've ever seen. I can't think about it without laughing.  Thanks for reminding me of it, jinger! 

I do think Tom's actions hurt her but for whatever reason, she chose to forgive him. Again, I would not have. As for the co worker, I would want her fired, I am like that, LOL. I get what you and others are saying about this is a "reality TV show" but how they conduct themselves is the reason we watch and IMO, Bethenny just keeps sinking lower and lower each time, she has turned into a wealthy Brandi or Kelly at this point and that is not a good look for anyone! LOL

I don't know what you expect from Bethenny in her crying/shaking scenes, after all, that was a step up from peeing on camera! Anything to keep the cameras on her, that's Bethenny! LOL

[glowbug]

I don't think it was wrong of Bethenny to tell Luann (it would have been wrong for her not to), however, she should have done it privately (off camera) and not told anyone else, at least not anyone in Luann's social/employment circle. That is what common decency requires. I get that they are both on a reality TV show but to tell Luann for the first time in front of the cameras was wrong. And telling Carole and Ramona first was doubly wrong. And not telling Luann when she first found out about it, or at least when Luann first arrived in Miami was triply wrong. It made for good TV but I think it's sad that Bethenny would rather be a reality TV star than a decent human being. What makes it all worse is that Bethenny insists that she did nothing wrong. I don't think Luann is the most wonderful human being on the planet, but from what I've seen or heard, nothing she's done has justified Bethenny's vile behavior towards her, which includes the Berkshires tirade and the callous way she chose to reveal Tom's cheating. The fact that I don't think Luann's anger towards Bethenny is unjustified does not mean I think she's handling the Tom situation the way she should. I do think she should be far angrier with him than she is, and I think her decision to go through with the engagement and wedding before she's had time to get to know him better and he's had time to prove he can stay faithful is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean she should be less angry with Bethenny. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

As for the co worker, I would want her fired, I am like that, LOL. 

Fired? Not in this business. Stunts like that get you a producer's credit! 

At least that's the rumor, heh

[WireWrap]

48 minutes ago, glowbug said:

I don't think it was wrong of Bethenny to tell Luann (it would have been wrong for her not to), however, she should have done it privately (off camera) and not told anyone else, at least not anyone in Luann's social/employment circle. That is what common decency requires. I get that they are both on a reality TV show but to tell Luann for the first time in front of the cameras was wrong. And telling Carole and Ramona first was doubly wrong. And not telling Luann when she first found out about it, or at least when Luann first arrived in Miami was triply wrong. It made for good TV but I think it's sad that Bethenny would rather be a reality TV star than a decent human being. What makes it all worse is that Bethenny insists that she did nothing wrong. I don't think Luann is the most wonderful human being on the planet, but from what I've seen or heard, nothing she's done has justified Bethenny's vile behavior towards her, which includes the Berkshires tirade and the callous way she chose to reveal Tom's cheating. The fact that I don't think Luann's anger towards Bethenny is unjustified does not mean I think she's handling the Tom situation the way she should. I do think she should be far angrier with him than she is, and I think her decision to go through with the engagement and wedding before she's had time to get to know him better and he's had time to prove he can stay faithful is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean she should be less angry with Bethenny. 

THIS!!!!!!

45 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Fired? Not in this business. Stunts like that get you a producer's credit! 

At least that's the rumor, heh

If not a promotion/title then at the very least....a raise. LOL Andy sure does hate women!

[motorcitymom65]

13 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Well we did hear Luann say, she had to tell her son, and Tom's parents, in the event it became a news item instead of something that could be handled between Tom and Luann-had Bethenny notified her privately.  Since July, every news item about Luann has included Tom's cheating, so first she has to break through the cheating stuff, that Bethenny  and Bethenny alone made public before she can talk about her launch or her wedding.  I would think privately when she returned from the Berkshires there may have been some discussion with Tom about what went down.   

It is kind of like saying when someone commits suicide they only hurt themselves.  Their parents, spouse, and children may feel differently.   I guess if the survivors are smokers they wouldn't feel any emotions with their tar encrusted hearts.

 

I wonder which was harder for Lu, telling her son about Tom cheating, or telling him about her doing the Pirate? Or doing whatever she did with the married dude in T&C, or taking the young guy into the bathroom at the bar to do whatever she does with young guys in bars? It must be exhausting to live a life where you constantly have to prepare people you love for news of behavior that will be embarrassing to them.  

People were talking about Lu and her love of banging guys way before Beth said a word about it. Many laughed and laughed at the portrayal of Lu In that parody video last season.  Beth was wrong for the things she said about Lu. I don't condone it, but hardly think it was this thing that hurt her.  If talk like this is so hurtful, how could she continue to be on the show where there is so much commentary on these aspects of her behavior? I've said it before and I will say it again, if Lu wants to not be talked about as a girl who does certain things, she needs to not be a girl who does certain things. She is so manipulative about it all. Perfect example was her trying to make Carole feel guilty for barging into her room in T&C, saying "what if I had a guy in there. What would my son have thought?" (paraphrasing because I don't remember her exact words). I was incredulous, as was Carole. Lu, your son would think what he has thought in the past. She can act like it would be new or shocking, but that is just Lu, per usual trying to rewrite history. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by motorcitymom65

[SCS]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 

I wonder which was harder for Lu, telling her son about Tom cheating, or telling him about her doing the Pirate? Or doing whatever she did with the married dude in T&C, or taking the young guy into the bathroom at the bar to do whatever she does with young guys in bars? It must be exhausting to live a life where you constantly have to prepare people you love for news of behavior that will be embarrassing to them.  

People were talking about Lu and her love of banging guys way before Beth said a word about it. Many laughed and laughed at the portrayal of Lu In that parody video last season.  Beth was wrong for the things she said about Lu. I don't condone it, but hardly think it was this thing that hurt her.  If talk like this is so hurtful, how could she continue to be on the show where there is so much commentary on these aspects of her behavior? I've said it before and I will say it again, if Lu wants to not be talked about as a girl who does certain things, she needs to not be a girl who does certain things. She is so manipulative about it all. Perfect example was her trying to make Carole feel guilty for barging into her room in T&C, saying "what if I had a guy in there. What would my son have thought?" (paraphrasing because I don't remember her exact words). I was incredulous, as was Carole. Lu, your son would think what he has thought in the past. She can act like it would be new or shocking, but that is just Lu, per usual trying to rewrite history. 

Yes.

[Yours Truly]

12 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Are you suggesting that should be the end of talking about it? It wouldn't be where I come from.  It would just be the beginning, lol.  

Actually, what I was talking about in my post that you quoted was if this happened to people I actually knew ... I think my friends and I would find the subject of the cheating to be a more compelling discussion topic than (as Jel put it, lol) the "mean girl way" the woman found out.  Nobody would care about that part, it would be a total footnote to the major story.  And even if the guy admitted it and apologized, etc. the cheating would still be worthy of discussion (okay gossip), not just instantly relegated to history as you seem to feel the Tom cheated discussion ought to be just because he said "I sawwy ."  Not a chance. 

But let's talk about Tom's cheating for a minute ... even though he apologized ... whatever ... wouldn't the women want to talk about who the other woman was, what their relationship was, does anyone know if he has done this before, what do you think the likelihood of him doing it again is?   And the whole subject of how Luann went to a hotel (supposedly) then was in on calling Dorinda to cook up a story, and how she's still going to marry this creep.  All that passed by in a blur when to me that is WAY more interesting than stupid Bethenny's role.  It would have been far more interesting to watch THAT broken down over three episodes than Bethenny parade around in a thong debating how to break it to Luann.  They should have condensed that crap into one episode and spent the rest of the season dealing with the fallout.  You know, like would have happened in real life. 

But I guess that would have been too "real" for the Real Housewives.  And lord knows Andy Cohen lives to watch women have catfights and screech and call names and slam doors etc so it's not a surprise the focus of the show is nothing like what would happen in real life.  His misogynistic fantasies of what women are like must be in the forefront at all times. 

 

See, this is a perfect example of what bugs me about these shows ... it's the assumption that the supposed meanness of women is what is most interesting about them.  That women being mean to each other is what other women want to see and talk about. I don't think it is. 

I don't think the reason the women on the show are focusing on Bethenny being mean is because that is what is most interesting to them. It's just what Bravo has picked out to focus on.  And I don't think Bethenny being mean is the topic clogging this board because it's what the women (and two dudes) here are most interested in.  It's because it's what Bravo made the show about so it's what there is to discuss.  Sorry, but the idea that women being mean to each other is this fascinating subject which is so much more interesting than anything else so OF COURSE that's why they are talking about it is nonsense. Maybe some people actually do find the subject captivating but most women I know DON'T.

 

I never said it was okay to try to hurt someone.  I simply don't believe that Luann is this fragile snowflake that was destroyed by all this the way some believe she was.  Period.

And for the record, it was TOM who humiliated Luann. Not Bethenny.

It was very significant not some throw away detail that pales in comparison to Tom's cheating. There was plenty to address with regards to Beth's motives and delivery. It's not some made up talking point. It is a talking point. Hell it was Beth's intention to drag it out for episodes. That's what's worth talking about. The sheer lunacy of this women. Not some pretty common scandal like a man doing a woman wrong. Yeah, yeah that's definitely going to get the tongues wagging and lips flapping but it isn't all that unique of a scenario to be honest. Beth tho? The antics, the choreography, the well timed execution.. Oh yeah, I'm not surprised that we are discussing this at length.  Beth designed it that way.

Beth's vacuum attacks are something of a wonder which is why people continue to analyze it.

It's far less mind boggling to understand a woman who forgives her man. Gasp, Shocker!  Hell that's how Lifetime was born.

Beth's crazy, nasty and vile existence? Hatred with no rhyme or reason? Not that's what gets the WTF juices flowing.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

10 hours ago, Trooper York said:

I agree with our esteemed moderator. Can't we all just get along and unite in our utter disdain for Bethenny and Carole.

Com'on people get with it!

Oh you mean Bloody and Bucky? ;-)

[Jel]

Am I wrong here or did Ramona say something like, "It's all over New York!" (re: Tom) while they were still in Miami?  Was that accurate, or did Bethenny break the news? 

Does anyone remember reading anything about it before the episode aired?

[zoeysmom]

6 minutes ago, Jel said:

Am I wrong here or did Ramona say something like, "It's all over New York!" (re: Tom) while they were still in Miami?  Was that accurate, or did Bethenny break the news? 

Does anyone remember reading anything about it before the episode aired?

No through the magic of television and multi-billion dollar media company it was not put out there.  Which leads me to believe, there weren't hundreds of people going through the Regency that night, and/or it wasn't two hours of making out, Tom and Luann calling Dorinda from the Regency was probably shut down very quickly,  the we, in "we called" was most likely production and hence the reason Bethenny used the name of the other woman.  I do believe as soon as Ramona said that about it is all over NY, production got together and silenced the RHs.  They had already had one surprise revealed with Bethenny revealing that Tom had bedded Sonja and Ramona. 

Just a side note the day Bethenny revealed the information about Tom cheating to Luann, the Page Six item regarding Bethenny dating married Dennis Shields ran.  So there was a lot being suppressed.  Makes me wonder if it wasn't someone connected with production that leaked the info. 

There was also a pretty big gap in Tom and Luann photos on Luann's Instagram after the cheating stuff.  I don't think he even appeared in her Easter photos.  Once the show began he appeared in her photos.

[jaync]

Quote

Isn't it weird that the focus of all the discussion is not about how Tom cheated but instead is on how Bethenny broke the news? 

Not really, since Frankel was the one who hammed it up in several different scenes so as to make the focus about herself and how she was affected.

[janie2002]

Bethenny made Luann being cheated on a storyline. That hurts, that humiliates.

She continues to poke Luann. "she is a whore, slept with all of new york, sham marriage, open marriage, sex doll'

I wish Luann went as low how about' ' no one loves you not even your mother, failed how many marriages... so I guess we could call them shams too, i married money you, lucked out on it, user, social climber, liar, you wrote the book on relationships yet I don't think you have any healthy ones. Why don't you go put on some toddle pajamas again.

 

See it's not hard to be a bish, B makes it seem like she is so creative.

[Celia Rubenstein]

13 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

It was very significant not some throw away detail that pales in comparison to Tom's cheating. There was plenty to address with regards to Beth's motives and delivery. It's not some made up talking point. It is a talking point. Hell it was Beth's intention to drag it out for episodes. That's what's worth talking about. The sheer lunacy of this women. Not some pretty common scandal like a man doing a woman wrong. Yeah, yeah that's definitely going to get the tongues wagging and lips flapping but it isn't all that unique of a scenario to be honest. Beth tho? The antics, the choreography, the well timed execution.. Oh yeah, I'm not surprised that we are discussing this at length.  Beth designed it that way.

Beth's vacuum attacks are something of a wonder which is why people continue to analyze it.

It's far less mind boggling to understand a woman who forgives her man. Gasp, Shocker!  Hell that's how Lifetime was born.

Beth's crazy, nasty and vile existence? Hatred with no rhyme or reason? Not that's what gets the WTF juices flowing.

Maybe I didn't make my point clear.

What I was saying is that in my opinion Bravo has the idea that women get off on seeing other women tear each other apart. It's not just the New York franchise or this particular story line.  But this story line is a perfect example ... the way they turned the focus of the show from the cheating itself (which I believe would have been the focus in real life) and instead made the story about the "sheer lunacy" of these women as they engage catfight # 677,964.  It's just another example of how Bravo and it's misogynistic producers prefer to pit women against each other because they think the audience prefers that kind of a story.  

I personally don't think that many people find catfights and backstabbing to be an inherently fascinating subject - in fact I think a lot of people are bored with the constant confrontations and bickering.  People will of course talk about it because that was a central theme of several episodes.  But in no way do I believe that the extended discussion about it signifies that it is what people are really most interested in, as you suggest. That is how Bravo thinks, and imo they are way off base. 

I believe there would have been just as much (if not more) interest in seeing the social and emotional fallout about the cheating itself as opposed to the dwelling on how Bethenny handled it. That is not to say that there aren't some here who find the topic worthy of endless discussion and would do so even if the subject of Bethenny had been less prominent on the show. But I am not among their numbers, and I think it would have been much more interesting if they covered the story in a way that more closely echoed how something like the cheating scandal would have been treated in real life. 

This "design" of how this story was handled is the work Bravo, in my opinion.  Not Bethenny. 

 

9 hours ago, jaync said:

Not really, since Frankel was the one who hammed it up in several different scenes so as to make the focus about herself and how she was affected.

I admit I am confused why everyone thinks Bethenny has so much control over the show. What ends up on the air is not her call.  I do think she knows what Bravo likes and she delivers it, but the idea that she has the ability to make the network spend three entire episodes on a given subject even when it is something they have no interest in - just by the sheer force of her personality - is unlikely.  

Edited September 24, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[Jel]

Lol, the close up on the shaking hand, holding a glass of Skinny Girl brand vodka, may just be the official moment RHoNY jumped the shark.

[WireWrap]

39 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Maybe I didn't make my point clear.

What I was saying is that in my opinion Bravo has the idea that women get off on seeing other women tear each other apart. It's not just the New York franchise or this particular story line.  But this story line is a perfect example ... the way they turned the focus of the show from the cheating itself (which I believe would have been the focus in real life) and instead made the story about the "sheer lunacy" of these women as they engage catfight # 677,964.  It's just another example of how Bravo and it's misogynistic producers prefer to pit women against each other because they think the audience prefers that kind of a story.  

I personally don't think that many people find catfights and backstabbing to be an inherently fascinating subject - in fact I think a lot of people are bored with the constant confrontations and bickering.  People will of course talk about it because that was a central theme of several episodes.  But in no way do I believe that the extended discussion about it signifies that it is what people are really most interested in, as you suggest. That is how Bravo thinks, and imo they are way off base. 

I believe there would have been just as much (if not more) interest in seeing the social and emotional fallout about the cheating itself as opposed to the dwelling on how Bethenny handled it. That is not to say that there aren't some here who find the topic worthy of endless discussion and would do so even if the subject of Bethenny had been less prominent on the show. But I am not among their numbers, and I think it would have been much more interesting if they covered the story in a way that more closely echoed how something like the cheating scandal would have been treated in real life. 

This "design" of how this story was handled is the work Bravo, in my opinion.  Not Bethenny. 

 

I admit I am confused why everyone thinks Bethenny has so much control over the show. What ends up on the air is not her call.  I do think she knows what Bravo likes and she delivers it, but the idea that she has the ability to make the network spend three entire episodes on a given subject even when it is something they have no interest in - just by the sheer force of her personality - is unlikely.  

I agree, it would have been more interesting to see how the cheating scandal played out without all the cat fighting/name calling/ect. but as you said, Bravo/production wasn't interested in that, or, there really wasn't anything to see because Tom/Luann refused to discuss it on film and thought it should be handled in private, which is her/their decision to make.

As for Bethenny having control over the show, I disagree because she does have control over her own actions/words, so she doesn't need to feed into Bravo's/productions " misogynistic" need to pit these women against each other all the time. Oh, and it was Bethenny thanking "her" source, Tom cheating photos, for extending the show by 3 full episodes, so Yes, she was giving herself credit for it.

As you said, Bethenny is well aware of what the producers want from them but that doesn't mean she has to feed the monster 24/7 during filming, yet she does. This franchise used to be different from the other HW shows, the NY women fought, petty squabbles, but got past it quickly and didn't dredge up old garbage to fling around, that is until Bethenny came back and now they are also following the same old rather stale show format, never forget a slight, no matter how small and then keep using it/them to bash each other over the head with it. LOL

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Maybe I didn't make my point clear.

What I was saying is that in my opinion Bravo has the idea that women get off on seeing other women tear each other apart. It's not just the New York franchise or this particular story line.  But this story line is a perfect example ... the way they turned the focus of the show from the cheating itself (which I believe would have been the focus in real life) and instead made the story about the "sheer lunacy" of these women as they engage catfight # 677,964.  It's just another example of how Bravo and it's misogynistic producers prefer to pit women against each other because they think the audience prefers that kind of a story.  

 

I believe there would have been just as much (if not more) interest in seeing the social and emotional fallout about the cheating itself as opposed to the dwelling on how Bethenny handled it. That is not to say that there aren't some here who find the topic worthy of endless discussion and would do so even if the subject of Bethenny had been less prominent on the show. But I am not among their numbers, and I think it would have been much more interesting if they covered the story in a way that more closely echoed how something like the cheating scandal would have been treated in real life. 

This "design" of how this story was handled is the work Bravo, in my opinion.  Not Bethenny. 

 

I admit I am confused why everyone thinks Bethenny has so much control over the show. What ends up on the air is not her call.  I do think she knows what Bravo likes and she delivers it, but the idea that she has the ability to make the network spend three entire episodes on a given subject even when it is something they have no interest in - just by the sheer force of her personality - is unlikely.  

How could they put anymore focus on the cheating?  It wasn't as if they unearthed Tom having sex with someone or being caught sneaking out of an old girlfriend's house at 5:00 am.  He was caught making out in a bar with an old girlfriend after a fight with Luann.  All but Jules thought Luann should call of the engagement.  Was she suppose to chuck her big ass ring in the ocean or say "we are taking a break from being engaged,"?  They all had their opinions and they were all that Luann should step away from Tom and three of them were pretty big on trying to make Luann admit it was a sham for the show.  Luann followed her feelings and forgave at that point no one should be saying word one about her decision.  Luann and Tom do not care what Ramona would do (she took Mario back), what Bethenny or Ramona think about it being all about being in love with the idea of being in love (whatever the hell that means) or if delusional Sonja is missing a lover (who she managed to bag 1 or 5 times in the past 10 years and never had as a dinner companion). Carole who feigned accepting the relationship thought it should end.  The same Carole that didn't mind her newly snagged boyfriend going off to a foreign country with his ex-girlfriend. 

Here is another thing if bravo really wanted to delve into the cheating they would have nudged Dorinda to meet with the waiters on camera.  They didn't. 

The problem was the question Bethenny keeps posing as some deep question "Would you want to know?", Luann never had the opportunity to decide because Bethenny had already broadcast it.  The real question these women wanted answered and weighed in on was "Would you forgive your man for making out with an old girlfriend?" Or maybe it was, "Could you stay with someone who publicly humiliated you?"

Bethenny was in from the beginning and stayed in and continues to stay in.  It was never about should Bethenny tell Luann it was all about how she went about it.  So to try and twist to it is a yes or no answer is treating the audience like morons.    Bethenny disagreed had issues with the relationship from the beginning for a variety of none of her fucking business reasons and still is getting ink for not being invited.  She really, really doesn't know how to let go.

So after the dust cleared six months later you have this group of mental midgets continuing to attack Tom and his integrity because he doesn't recall the number of dates-was in two or was it four as if that is some sort of measure of a person.  Now it seems the wedding is on and the same mental midgets can't fathom why they aren't invited.  he made it clear to Sonja she needed to let go and she didn't.  Sonja your New Years' Eve is officially free.   Crap all over someone long enough and you will see where there integrity lies.

Of course Bravo had interest in the topic.  Bethenny is the one saying she stretched it from one episode to three.

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Here is another thing if bravo really wanted to delve into the cheating they would have nudged Dorinda to meet with the waiters on camera.  They didn't. 

Exactly!  Thank you for proving my point.  

I wish they had pushed Dorinda to meet with the waiters on camera.  How interesting would THAT have been!  I would so much rather know what plan Tom had up his sleeve to cover his ass than the other things they decided to focus on.  

 

Quote

The real question these women wanted answered and weighed in on was "Would you forgive your man for making out with an old girlfriend?" Or maybe it was, "Could you stay with someone who publicly humiliated you?"

I know those are certainly the questions I would be more interested in hearing be discussed.  It's a shame they didn't devote more time to those issues.  If the story been treated more realistically, they would have been.  And it would have been much more interesting to listen to than what we got.

 

Quote

Of course Bravo had interest in the topic.  Bethenny is the one saying she stretched it from one episode to three.

They stretched out the drama about the way Bethenny was going about telling Luann to three episodes. They didn't devote that much time to the core issue of Tom's philandering itself.   Let's not confuse the two issues - they are separate. 

I still don't at all accept the idea that Bethenny is in charge of a damn thing on this show.  She is not in the editing room.  She does not decide what gets stretched out over multiple episodes.  That is Bravos' call.  Not hers. 

[WireWrap]

5 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

They stretched out the drama about the way Bethenny was going about telling Luann to three episodes. They didn't devote that much time to the core issue of Tom's philandering itself.   Let's not confuse the two issues - they are separate. 

I still don't at all accept the idea that Bethenny is in charge of a damn thing on this show.  She is not in the editing room.  She does not decide what gets stretched out over multiple episodes.  That is Bravos' call.  Not hers. 

It was Bethenny that "stretched out the drama" by not telling Luann when she got to Miami on Friday but instead waited until right before they left on Sunday, she made that decision, not Bravo/production, just Bethenny and IMO, she did so to keep the cameras focused on her for the majority of the Miami trip. Bethenny also knew that her piñata party was to be the shows season finale, which again would keep the cameras focused on her more than any of the other women, including Luann. 

I agree, I don't think Bethenny has editing power but what she does do is control the narrative, like in Miami, which does play into what does/doesn't make it past editing. Had she told Luann about Tom on Friday, there was a very good chance that Luann would have flown back to NYC right away and the cameras, at least in part, would have followed her. Which would have meant less camera time for Bethenny and the others, so she, Bethenny, played this out like she did for the camera time and that was her call, not Bravo's or productions.

Bottom line is that production/Bravo can't edit out something that isn't filmed, these shows may be staged to some extent but they are not scripted. What the HWs say/do is on them and it was Bethenny that kept the cameras focused on her and not how Luann handled the cheating news. Heck, Bethenny even kept the other HWs chatter about Tom's cheating on Luann centered on her, Bethenny with her I'm just the poor victim messenger act. It was crazy to see how Carole, Ramona and Sonja all ran to comfort crying/shaking poor hurt messenger Bethenny first, not cheated on victim Luann. Bethenny truly is the master of spin manipulation. LOL

[Celia Rubenstein]

How can you be sure that production didn't instruct Bethenny to not tell Luann right away?  It has been pretty well established that these shows tell the members of the cast when and where to meet and what to discuss during the taping.

It may very well have been the producer's decision to put off telling Luann in order to obtain as much footage building up to the big reveal as they could get. They seemed to find this angle of the story more interesting than the actual cheating itself so it's not a surprise they would have done everything possible to drag it out.