Lorelai Gilmore: The 10(+) Things I Hate About You

[peacheslatour]

24 minutes ago, cleo said:

Yeah not letting Richard off that easy. How hard is it to say let's wait and discuss this together? 

He could have made soothing we'll figure it out don't worry you're still a princess noises without making a decision. I think Richard would have been perfectly capable of doing that.

Richard and Emily routinely dismiss Lorelai and her feelings and concerns, this was not a stretch for them.

Let's face it, Richard was a coward. He worked hard and took care of his family to the best of his abilities but he's not much different than Rory. Raised with tons of privilege, the road laid out at his feet. He never had any gumption and the one time he tried to be his own man, he went crawling back like a whupped dog.

[TwirlyGirly]

Had Gilmore Girls on in the background today (Netflix); S2/E2 Hammers and Veils.

Something occurred to me.

Lorelai tricks Max into taking her to her parent's house late in the evening, so she can confront her mother about her lukewarm response to the news that Lorelai and Max are getting married.

Max is standing in the doorway, so he hears the entire exchange between Lorelai and Emily.

Lorelai: "Do you know how it felt for me to tell you I was getting married and for you to just brush it off like that? Do you know?"

Emily replies: "No, I don't. I don't know. Possibly very similar to finding out from a complete stranger that my only daughter was getting married and had told every other person in the world before she bothered to tell her own mother. Possibly it felt something like that. [...]."

Max is probably the only person in Lorelai's life (other than Christopher and Rory) who has gotten to see the other side of Lorelai's relationship with her parents. Her M.O. has always been to exaggerate and lie by omission when talking about her upbringing and  relationship with them to other people.

Lorelai compartmentalizes her "Stars Hollow life", "Chilton life", and "Hartford life" and desperately tries to prevent any overlap between them so her exaggerations and lies won't be uncovered.

What I find curious is why Max didn't take a step back after this and start asking questions. Here was direct evidence that Lorelai may play a huge part in her dysfunctional relationship with her parents.

Evidence that Emily and Richard may not be the monsters Lorelai portrays them to be.

Evidence that Lorelai is the kind of person who will always be the victim whenever things don't go the way she wants them to go, even when it's clear she is wrong for expecting everything to go the way she wants (to the exclusion of the wants and needs of others).

Evidence that Lorelai, even at 33 years old, still hasn't learned other people's feelings are just as important to them as her own feelings are to her.

This should have been a lightbulb moment for Max, in which he seriously reconsidered marrying Lorelai.

But it wasn't.

[alexa]

1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Had Gilmore Girls on in the background today (Netflix); S2/E2 Hammers and Veils.

Something occurred to me.

Lorelai tricks Max into taking her to her parent's house late in the evening, so she can confront her mother about her lukewarm response to the news that Lorelai and Max are getting married.

Max is standing in the doorway, so he hears the entire exchange between Lorelai and Emily.

Lorelai: "Do you know how it felt for me to tell you I was getting married and for you to just brush it off like that? Do you know?"

Emily replies: "No, I don't. I don't know. Possibly very similar to finding out from a complete stranger that my only daughter was getting married and had told every other person in the world before she bothered to tell her own mother. Possibly it felt something like that. [...]."

Max is probably the only person in Lorelai's life (other than Christopher and Rory) who has gotten to see the other side of Lorelai's relationship with her parents. Her M.O. has always been to exaggerate and lie by omission when talking about her upbringing and  relationship with them to other people.

Lorelai compartmentalizes her "Stars Hollow life", "Chilton life", and "Hartford life" and desperately tries to prevent any overlap between them so her exaggerations and lies won't be uncovered.

What I find curious is why Max didn't take a step back after this and start asking questions. Here was direct evidence that Lorelai may play a huge part in her dysfunctional relationship with her parents.

Evidence that Emily and Richard may not be the monsters Lorelai portrays them to be.

Evidence that Lorelai is the kind of person who will always be the victim whenever things don't go the way she wants them to go, even when it's clear she is wrong for expecting everything to go the way she wants (to the exclusion of the wants and needs of others).

Evidence that Lorelai, even at 33 years old, still hasn't learned other people's feelings are just as important to them as her own feelings are to her.

This should have been a lightbulb moment for Max, in which he seriously reconsidered marrying Lorelai.

But it wasn't.

I agree in some ways, but I also think it is putting too much of the blame on Lorelai when Richard and Emily have so many things to answer to in this relationship.  Honestly I think Max probably knew enough about the troubled relationship from their conversations (that we didn't see), and probably just felt like this was one example of that as a whole--not reading into it too much.  I just really can't blame one or the other in one exchange as it is simply not a healthy relationship and all parties have something to do with that.

[Hera]

I was always on Lorelai's side in that fight. Yes, she could have told her parents about her engagement sooner, but it's not like she intended for them to get the news from Sookie. Emily, on the other hand, did intend to respond to Lorelai's news dismissively. It was a calculated move to hurt Lorelai's feelings, and she knew that Lorelai wouldn't have the full context for it at the time.

I also don't have a lot of patience for Emily's gripe that other people were told about Lorelai's engagement before she was. In my experience, the sort of person who worries about that kind of thing and takes it as a referendum on their importance in another person's life was always going to try to make the other person's big, milestone event about themselves. I bet when Emily was younger, she quietly fumed every time a friend of hers got married and she wasn't asked to be a bridesmaid (and then, when she was, every time she wasn't asked to be the maid/matron of honor).

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Hera said:

I also don't have a lot of patience for Emily's gripe that other people were told about Lorelai's engagement before she was. In my experience, the sort of person who worries about that kind of thing and takes it as a referendum on their importance in another person's life was always going to try to make the other person's big, milestone event about themselves. I bet when Emily was younger, she quietly fumed every time a friend of hers got married and she wasn't asked to be a bridesmaid (and then, when she was, every time she wasn't asked to be the maid/matron of honor).

I agree.  It's not as if invitations had been mailed at that point. If Lorelai and Max had had a huge wedding, gotten married, and then someone asked Emily why she wasn't at the wedding, she definitely would have had a reason to gripe. OTOH, IIRC, Lorelai was at Friday night dinner when she excused herself to go accept Max marriage proposal.  Perfect time to tell the folks, I would think.  Especially since she and Rory did a little happy dance then and there.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I was always on Lorelai's side in that fight. Yes, she could have told her parents about her engagement sooner, but it's not like she intended for them to get the news from Sookie. 

Sookie had no right to do that. She drove me crazy with her lack of boundaries. Remember that wedding cake topper she brought into Luke's and proceeded to embarrass the shit out of him with her remarks about his ass?

[scarynikki12]

I give Sookie a pass since she assumed Lorelai had told them already and Emily responded as if she knew. Now there was certainly a better way for her to invite people since it had just happened and there was no rush to have the party (I doubt the town would have noticed if Max weren’t there) but I don’t have a problem with Sookie on this one. 

 

3 hours ago, Hera said:

Emily, on the other hand, did intend to respond to Lorelai's news dismissively.

That’s why I side with Lorelai as well. She could have told them right after squealing with Rory but she wasn’t required to. If Richard hadn’t been an ass to Dean the following week and let the evening be pleasant she may have told them then. She ended up telling them two weeks later and wasn’t acting like she was being forced. Instead she was happy and hopeful that they could share in the moment. Emily’s feelings were hurt but she still chose to be awful in response. She could have sucked it up, congratulated her, and asked if they’d started planning, suggested the tiara, or asked to meet Max. Too bad her epiphany from the previous episode didn’t carry over. 

[RachelKM]

Omg, I haven't posted on Gilmore Girls in a while (though I did plenty for a while after AYITL).  But this just popped up on my tiktok feed and I immediately thought of this this thread:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdb7aL19/

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by RachelKM

[TwirlyGirly]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

Omg, I haven't posted on Gilmore Girls in a while (though I did plenty for a while after AYITL).  But I this just popped up on my tiktok feed and immediately thought of this this thread:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdb7aL19/

 

THANK YOU for posting that TikTok!! 

I'm still 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣!

Edited July 17, 2021 by TwirlyGirly

[Lya167]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:19 PM, RachelKM said:

Omg, I haven't posted on Gilmore Girls in a while (though I did plenty for a while after AYITL).  But this just popped up on my tiktok feed and I immediately thought of this this thread:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdb7aL19/

 

Lorelai and Dean?! What?! When?! For real?! I'm not on tiktok, so I can't read people's comments, but her daughter's first love?! I know Lorelai could be very flirtatious, but I never picked the tiniest grain of it there, I'd see sexual tension between her and Kirk, but never ever, her and Dean. I'll binge watch again sometime, see if I missed anything...

[peacheslatour]

20 hours ago, Lya167 said:

Lorelai and Dean?! What?! When?! For real?! I'm not on tiktok, so I can't read people's comments, but her daughter's first love?! I know Lorelai could be very flirtatious, but I never picked the tiniest grain of it there, I'd see sexual tension between her and Kirk, but never ever, her and Dean. I'll binge watch again sometime, see if I missed anything...

Must be fanfic.

[Katy M]

I remember back in the day reading about people saying that Lorelai and Dean had insane chemistry.  I'm not sure I saw it, but I usually don't.

[Lya167]

Insane chemistry?! My God, @Katy M, that's shocking news to me, after all those years! Still, it's a no-no for me.

[Taryn74]

LOL yeah, people thought Lorelai was a little too "into" Dean at times. I always saw it as she was naturally flirtatious with everyone and usually didn't bother to scale it back even with her teenage daughter's boyfriend. Since it never went anywhere (thank G-d!) I didn't read too much into it.

The time Dean was giving Max dating advice as though Lorelai and Rory were a unit was weird, though. I never liked that scene.

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

The time Dean was giving Max dating advice as though Lorelai and Rory were a unit was weird, though. I never liked that scene.

Lorelai and Rory being super similar was a huge theme of the first season, though.  And he did differentiate at least a little.  He specifically used Lorelai as an example of talking pepperoni and mushrooms and knew that Max got "you have much knowledge" from Rory as opposed to Lorelai.

[Hera]

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

The time Dean was giving Max dating advice as though Lorelai and Rory were a unit was weird, though. I never liked that scene.

I didn't like that scene either, or the one where Lorelai tells Dean how super special Rory is and how the whole town will be watching him, and tells him that Rory is never getting on his motorcycle. This happens while Rory is in the bathroom. There's just a whole vibe of, "now that the child has left room, we adults have the chance to get down to brass tacks", and it's more embarrassing for Rory—even though she didn't know about it—than the fact that Lorelai had invited Dean over in the first place (which was actually a very good premise for an episode).

Anyway, I never got anything sexual from Lorelai's interactions with Dean and whatever their chemistry was, I always chalked it up to Dean being the sort of first boyfriend Lorelai wished she had had. In the Dean-Rory-Jess love triangle, it was pretty clear that Lorelai was rooting for Dean.

[RachelKM]

On 7/21/2021 at 9:15 AM, peacheslatour said:

Must be fanfic.

It was just a comment in the tiktok about seeing chemistry between Lorelei and Dean.

[SJC]

Is it just me or is Lorelai & Rory being “best friends” entirely at Lorelai’s convenience ?
For example when Rory is upset with Lorelai for breaking up with Max Lorelai refuses to discuss it with her, saying that wasn't something she was going to discuss with her daughter.

I did feel mean gladness when--the day after she got plastered on the Founder's Day punch--Rory refused to discuss her Logan issues with Lorelai & Lorelai got a wounded look on her face.

[SJC]

Poor abused Lorelai  -- Forward to 1:01 

[SJC]

This thread is making me remember more and more.
How about when Emily's friend Sweetie died & Lorelai kept on mercilessly grilling her about why she was called Sweetie ! Grrrrrr....! That was just plain maddening. 
For pity's sake Lorelai, show some sensitivity and kindness. Rory at least showed concern to her grandma.

Edited July 30, 2021 by SJC

[chessiegal]

2 minutes ago, SJC said:

This thread is making me remember more and more.
How about when Emily's friend Sweetie died & Lorelai kept on mercilessly grilling her about why she was called Sweetie ! Grrrrrr....! That was just plain maddening. 
For pity's sake Lorelai, show some sensitivity and kindness. Rory at least showed concern to her grandma.

Oh, but then we wouldn't have gotten Emily's delightfully sarcastic story about why she was named Sweetie. Dang, Kelly Bishop could always knock Emily out of the park.

[SJC]

2 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Oh, but then we wouldn't have gotten Emily's delightfully sarcastic story about why she was named Sweetie. Dang, Kelly Bishop could always knock Emily out of the park.

True, true.
KB deserves much praise.  :-)

[peacheslatour]

21 minutes ago, SJC said:

True, true.
KB deserves much praise.  :-)

I saw her as a defense attorney on SVU and she was awesome.

[SJC]

She's amazing in any role.  ☺️

[JustHereForFood]

I know I am very much in the minority with this, but I was more on Rory's side in both of her big fights with Lorelai. Sure, it was wrong of Rory to sleep with Dean when he was married, but Lorelai's reaction to it was IMO way overblown. I agree with what Rory suggested, that Lorelai wasn't just upset that she slept with a married man, but also a little bitter that she didn't discuss it with Lorelai beforehand, or didn't somehow indicate that it could be a possibility (i.e. that she made the decision on her own).

And in the second fight, I wouldn't even say that Rory was wrong about dropping out of Yale, because that was basically her decision, but (again, JMO) if Lorelai wanted her to change her mind, she took one of the worst ways to do it, by immediately telling her it was unacceptable and not trying more to see it from Rory's POV. I think, if they took time, Rory might have changed her decision once she cooled down a bit, but as she was met with an immediate opposition, she doubled down on her decision. 

Both of these times, they both did and said some wrong things, but I hated so much that it ended both times with Rory apologizing to Lorelai and the show treated it as her being in the wrong.

[FictionLover]

3 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I know I am very much in the minority with this, but I was more on Rory's side in both of her big fights with Lorelai. Sure, it was wrong of Rory to sleep with Dean when he was married, but Lorelai's reaction to it was IMO way overblown. I agree with what Rory suggested, that Lorelai wasn't just upset that she slept with a married man, but also a little bitter that she didn't discuss it with Lorelai beforehand, or didn't somehow indicate that it could be a possibility (i.e. that she made the decision on her own).

And in the second fight, I wouldn't even say that Rory was wrong about dropping out of Yale, because that was basically her decision, but (again, JMO) if Lorelai wanted her to change her mind, she took one of the worst ways to do it, by immediately telling her it was unacceptable and not trying more to see it from Rory's POV. I think, if they took time, Rory might have changed her decision once she cooled down a bit, but as she was met with an immediate opposition, she doubled down on her decision. 

Both of these times, they both did and said some wrong things, but I hated so much that it ended both times with Rory apologizing to Lorelai and the show treated it as her being in the wrong.

Rory was totally wrong to sleep with a married man. She only said Lorelai was mad because she didn’t talk to her first to deflect the blame.
It was wrong of Rory to manipulate her grandfather. Had she not did that and moved in there they would have worked it out. She was a baby hearing Mitchem’s opinion.

 

 

[SJC]

18 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Rory might have changed her decision once she cooled down a bit, but as she was met with an immediate opposition, she doubled down on her decision.

I thoroughly agree.
I do wish so much, however, that she had made up her mind to prove Mitchum wrong. I would have prized such a storyline. 😃

[SJC]

22 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Rory apologizing to Lorelai

It had to be that way, Lorelai is always right. Nothing is ever her fault. It must be wonderful to live an error-free life.

To be clear, I think Rory handled the Dean situation & the Mitchum assessment abysmally.

[Katy M]

39 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

ure, it was wrong of Rory to sleep with Dean when he was married, but Lorelai's reaction to it was IMO way overblown.

I don't think you can ever overblow a reaction to adultery.  It's not as if she murdered her.  She didn't even throw her out of the house or disown her.

[SJC]

10 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think you can ever overblow a reaction to adultery.  It's not as if she murdered her.  She didn't even throw her out of the house or disown her.

Agreed !
Lorelai's reaction was reasonable IMO.
And Rory got by pretty good, let's face it. Sure, Lindsay's Mom yelled at her in public, but it's not as if she was beaten up. And Lorelai defended her. 😐

I can't imagine what Rory would have to do for Lorelai to disown her. Become a serial killer perhaps ?

Edited August 2, 2021 by SJC

[SJC]

Now that I think about it how should Lorelai have handled it ? Rory was almost out of her teens & not living at home full time. Hard to punish your kid at that age...unless you're one of those "you're never too old" types.  lol  😆

[Cetacean]

53 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think you can ever overblow a reaction to adultery.  It's not as if she murdered her.  She didn't even throw her out of the house or disown her.

I thought her reaction was really very measured.  Lorelai hardly raised her voice!  She told it like it was and Rory didn't want to hear it because she knew her mother was right.

[Taryn74]

34 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

I thought her reaction was really very measured.  Lorelai hardly raised her voice!  She told it like it was and Rory didn't want to hear it because she knew her mother was right.

Agreed. I, too, am curious how Lorelai "should" have handled it?

Now, the Yale thing, I've made my opinion known at length but Lorelai handled that one all wrong IMO.

 

1 hour ago, SJC said:

I can't imagine what Rory would have to do for Lorelai to disown her. Become a serial killer perhaps ?

Well, dropping out of Yale just about did it LOL.

[SJC]

Just now, Taryn74 said:

Well, dropping out of Yale just about did it LOL.

True ! That just about did it as far as Lorelai was concerned.
Ha ! She reacted MUCH stronger to that than she did to Rory sleeping with married Dean. For crying out loud she & Luke went on a double date with the two of them ! Good gravy !
I can just hear it now, "Young lady, you may NOT drop out of school, but hey I don't mind going on a date with you and your married boyfriend !"
LOL !!

[Katy M]

50 minutes ago, SJC said:

I can just hear it now, "Young lady, you may NOT drop out of school, but hey I don't mind going on a date with you and your married boyfriend !"

tv divorces are generally pretty quick.  Plus, they didn't have kids and probably no assets.

[Taryn74]

22 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Plus, they didn't have kids and probably no assets.

Well, there were those Monster Jam tickets......

[SJC]

Oh yea, Monster Jam tickets..worth a lot no doubt. 😊

[Hera]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

 

5 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

Sure, it was wrong of Rory to sleep with Dean when he was married, but Lorelai's reaction to it was IMO way overblown.

I don't think you can ever overblow a reaction to adultery.  It's not as if she murdered her.  She didn't even throw her out of the house or disown her.

Not only that, but the deed took place under Lorelai's roof. Lorelai was well within her rights to disapprove of Rory and Dean already, but I would add she had a further right to be mad that they made her part of it (albeit in a minor way) by doing it in her home and then being indiscreet enough to let her catch them. Lorelai had a right to decide what behavior is permitted in her home, even from her adult daughter.

[SJC]

47 minutes ago, Hera said:

Lorelai had a right to decide what behavior is permitted in her home, even from her adult daughter.

I so agree with this.
Rory was so bratty & when she objected to Lorelai calling her "kid"...ugh ! 😠

[junienmomo]

3 hours ago, Hera said:

Lorelai had a right to decide what behavior is permitted in her home, even from her adult daughter.

I agree mostly that Lorelai had the right to decide this in the Dean debacle, with a minor exception that she often treated Rory as a friend. She only occasionally pulled the Mom card out. I can see where Rory might not think twice about using her bedroom.

OTOH, Lorelai was completely right to "be an Emily" when Rory dropped out of Yale. Here was her daughter, who had mostly done what Mom wanted. It was reasonable for Lorelai to expect Rory to toe the line. 

Except Rory hadn't lived at home for more than a few weeks at a time for three years. She felt like an adult and behaved that way (ok, like a spoiled young adult). Rory had options, friends, Logan, Emily. Then Emily and Richard agreed to bankroll her poor decision.

Poor Lorelai had no more influence than being more of a fun Alpha-friend. It was a crushing blow. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Except Rory hadn't lived at home for more than a few weeks at a time for three years. She felt like an adult and behaved that way (ok, like a spoiled young adult). Rory had options, friends, Logan, Emily. Then Emily and Richard agreed to bankroll her poor decision.

R&E had to know in their guts that this was not going to end well. It was a childish attempt to "get even" with Lorelai for keeping Rory away from them when she was little.

[SJC]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

It was a childish attempt to "get even" with Lorelai for keeping Rory away from them when she was little.

It was a way to extend a middle finger to Lorelai. 
Vengeance is mine, saith Richard & Emily.  :-(

Edited August 3, 2021 by SJC

[FictionLover]

2 hours ago, SJC said:

It was a way to extend a middle finger to Lorelai. 
Vengeance is mine, saith Richard & Emily.  :-(

It was the most serious issue between mother and daughter, more than quitting Yale. They would have worked that out.

[Guest]

Lorelei was justified in her reaction about Dean, IMO. I think she handled the Yale issue poorly, but was justified in how she handled it. Like she was addressing her and had the right to do so, but it was a stupid way to approach it. I was more bothered, during that arc, by the way she made a huge joke about Rory getting arrested and then immediately said Mitchum was wrong- she couldn’t accept that Mitchum may have seen some Rory correctly as a businessman. Instead she was convinced it was done on purpose to hurt Rory.

[SJC]

4 minutes ago, deaja said:

by the way she made a huge joke about Rory getting arrested and then immediately said Mitchum was wrong

YES !! Talk about having the blinders on with respect to Mitchum's appraisal.
And her making light of Rory being arrested was actually harmful not helpful OR funny. SMH ☹️

Edited August 3, 2021 by SJC

[Guest]

Basically, she treated Rory with kid gloves and never seemed to accept it when Rory messed up then acted shocked when Rory reacted poorly to criticism. Hmm.

[SJC]

Rory: Messes up
Lorelai: "This isn't you !"
Oh brother...Rory was flawed regardless of what Lorelai thought. No wonder Rory was a people-pleaser..at least in the early years.

[scarynikki12]

You know the big rift really should have been about the boat theft and Rory expecting Lorelai to coddle and make excuses only surprise! this time Lorelai goes with Tough Love and points out: that this was a gross overreaction to Mitch's criticism, that she basically proved him right, and she put her future job prospects and ambitions in jeopardy. I can see Rory rejecting Lorelai in a similar fashion to how upset she was after hearing the truth about sleeping with Dean.

It also would have been an interesting twist for Lorelai to be the one to suggest Rory taking a semester or year off from Yale to reassess her wants and that uniting Rory and the grandparents against her. 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

It also would have been an interesting twist for Lorelai to be the one to suggest Rory taking a semester or year off from Yale to reassess her wants and that uniting Rory and the grandparents against her. 

Now that would have been an interesting twist!

[SJC]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

You know the big rift really should have been about the boat theft and Rory expecting Lorelai to coddle and make excuses only surprise! this time Lorelai goes with Tough Love and points out: that this was a gross overreaction to Mitch's criticism, that she basically proved him right, and she put her future job prospects and ambitions in jeopardy. I can see Rory rejecting Lorelai in a similar fashion to how upset she was after hearing the truth about sleeping with Dean.

It also would have been an interesting twist for Lorelai to be the one to suggest Rory taking a semester or year off from Yale to reassess her wants and that uniting Rory and the grandparents against her. 

I just love this !! 
This likely would've led to real growth for both Lorelai & Rory. ❤️