S33: Will Wahl

[Michel]

Hi.  At only eighteen, I have surpassed Tocantins's Spencer as the youngest male castaway to play the game, and have tied with Kaoh Rong's Julia as the youngest castaway to play the game.

While he claims he doesn't want to play like any player from the past, he loses my respect by saying he respects Randy from Gabon.  But hopefully he plays with a way better social game than he did.

[dustoffmom]

No, just no.  I am so over the youngsters.

[LanceM]

Pre-game interview with Josh Wigler:

http://parade.com/501608/joshwigler/survivor-millennials-vs-gen-x-will-wahl/

[azshadowwalker]

He hates fake people, but lauds himself for being manipulative. Yeah, fuck this kid. 

[Hera]

Nothing says youth like claiming that you "carry yourself differently" from most people your age and that you don't have insecurities. He may be great at manipulating people his own age, but I have trouble believing anyone over the age of 21 is going to be taken in by him or look to him for strategic advice. Based on his interviews, I'm expecting a rerun of Alec Christy—one of the other players will lead him around until he stops being useful to them.

[LadyChatts]

Not a fan.  Hoping he's an early boot.

[LadyChatts]

He can not get voted off fast enough.  There's a new getting-to-know you video up, and he certainly talks a big game about what a mastermind he is going to be.  I guess he figures being 18 people will underestimate him.  And his experience leading a mission trip in Haiti and getting invited to speak about a short story he wrote will help him with his blindsiding strategies.  Have I mentioned I hope he's the first millennial tribe boot?  And though I've never played, if I fancied myself some big manipulator that was creating blindsides left and right, I don't know if I'd be smiling and laughing at the people who are getting their torches snuffed.  At least if I wanted those people to vote for me in the end anyway.

Edited September 22, 2016 by LadyChatts

[simplyme]

Well, he's certainly 18 rather than 18 going on 30.

[KimberStormer]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:51 PM, azshadowwalker said:

He hates fake people, but lauds himself for being manipulative. Yeah, fuck this kid. 

I mean, being manipulative is the whole game here.  And I don't think it makes you fake to do it.  I didn't mind this kid at all so far.

[Michel]

He seems all right, but I'm gonna wait to see what he actually does in terms of strategy.

[azshadowwalker]

On 9/22/2016 at 1:32 AM, KimberStormer said:

I mean, being manipulative is the whole game here.  And I don't think it makes you fake to do it.  I didn't mind this kid at all so far.

He isn't talking about the game, though. He's talking about his character. Yeah, fuck him. 

[azshadowwalker]

On 9/22/2016 at 1:32 AM, KimberStormer said:

I mean, being manipulative is the whole game here.  And I don't think it makes you fake to do it.  I didn't mind this kid at all so far.

He isn't talking about the game, though. He's talking about his character. Yeah, fuck him. 

From his bio about his motivation for wanting to be on the show:

Quote

My secondary motivation is to screw with people's heads and lie every chance I get. It just sounds like fun.

This isn't, "I will do what I must to win."  This is, "Having the opportunity to be a manipulative little shit is what I want, and Survivor will allow me to do so." It is one of his major reasons for even applying. 

But, hey, like the good Christian he is, he can just "pray for forgiveness," I guess. I don't know if there's another thing I hate more about people who trot out their religion than this kind of fake shit. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by azshadowwalker

[Guest]

His bio sounds to me like he's playing along with production's idea to cast him as a the young, cocky bully... Spencer but meaner.  I mean, admiring Randy Bailey?  No one does that.  I have serious doubts this bible thumping kid really enjoys toying with people like he claims.  

[Nashville]

55 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

His bio sounds to me like he's playing along with production's idea to cast him as a the young, cocky bully... Spencer but meaner.  I mean, admiring Randy Bailey?  No one does that.  I have serious doubts this bible thumping kid really enjoys toying with people like he claims.  

I'd wager there's been more than a few trot in the front door saying, "I'm going to be the biggest baddest villain this show has ever seen" - and then drop it within a week or two because they find out being a true villain takes a degree of stomach most people don't have.  That's why true villains like Russell Hantz are such standouts from the crowd.

[KimberStormer]

7 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

He isn't talking about the game, though. He's talking about his character. Yeah, fuck him. 

From his bio about his motivation for wanting to be on the show:

This isn't, "I will do what I must to win."  This is, "Having the opportunity to be a manipulative little shit is what I want, and Survivor will allow me to do so." It is one of his major reasons for even applying. 

I mean, that is a big reason why I have played certain games and daydream about going on Survivor.  That's what games are for, in my opinion: an impetus and authorization to do things you can't do in real life, because games are not real life.  In real life I don't beat people up, I'm a complete pacifist, but I do kickboxing.  If interviewed beforehand I might have said, "My main motivation is to get fit/look hot.  My secondary motivation is to beat the crap out of people.  It just sounds like fun."  (Actually I just hit a punching bag, but you know what I mean.)  Does that make me a dangerous, violent woman?

You could look at games as the creation of a tiny universe, with radically different moral laws than our own.  Metaphysically speaking, a lie on Survivor is not a lie.  A football tackle is not an assault.  Stealing the basketball is not theft.  Bankrupting your opponent in Monopoly is not capitalist exploitation.  Shooting people in a video game is not murder.  We do these things in games because we want to do them, but not really do them.  For fun.

If the only reason you'd lie in Survivor is "I will do what I must to win" then what the hell are you doing on this show anyway.  "Ugh, I guess I'll hit this ball with the stick if that's what I have to do to win this baseball game."  Don't play a game you don't want to play.  I want people who relish the game, not who feel superior to it, hold their noses playing it.  I mean that's one big reason I love Kim Spradlin; you can just feel the delight and glee when she's talking about the game.  I still got nothing wrong with this kid.

[simplyme]

19 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

I mean, that is a big reason why I have played certain games and daydream about going on Survivor.  That's what games are for, in my opinion: an impetus and authorization to do things you can't do in real life, because games are not real life. 

Amen. Through the years, I've played a variety of Dungeons & Dragons characters. None of them would ever be confused with the real me, particularly not the hard-drinking cleric who spent her time playing cards in a whorehouse (the whorehouse bit was technically the fault of the monk in the party. You'll notice my cleric was playing cards.) The monk was played by a mild-mannered female friend. My pacifist brother played a female gnome druid who started a tavern brawl. 

I found Will slightly grating, but only because he was excitedly spewing the "Generations At War!" theme crap that TPTB are pushing atm. I'll be better able to judge people once that crap settles down.

[hincandenza]

On 9/23/2016 at 8:36 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

His bio sounds to me like he's playing along with production's idea to cast him as a the young, cocky bully... Spencer but meaner.  I mean, admiring Randy Bailey?  No one does that.  I have serious doubts this bible thumping kid really enjoys toying with people like he claims.  

As a fan of Spencer, I feel this is a terribly unfair comparison. Pistols at dawn, sir! :)

On 9/23/2016 at 11:18 AM, KimberStormer said:

I mean, that is a big reason why I have played certain games and daydream about going on Survivor.  That's what games are for, in my opinion: an impetus and authorization to do things you can't do in real life, because games are not real life. 

[...]

You could look at games as the creation of a tiny universe, with radically different moral laws than our own.  Metaphysically speaking, a lie on Survivor is not a lie.  A football tackle is not an assault.  Stealing the basketball is not theft.  Bankrupting your opponent in Monopoly is not capitalist exploitation.  Shooting people in a video game is not murder.  We do these things in games because we want to do them, but not really do them.  For fun.

[...]

Don't play a game you don't want to play.  I want people who relish the game, not who feel superior to it, hold their noses playing it.  I mean that's one big reason I love Kim Spradlin; you can just feel the delight and glee when she's talking about the game.  I still got nothing wrong with this kid.

I agree completely.  More people need to have this attitude about most "games" they play in life, even the ones we forget are games.  The flip side is also my biggest pet peeve on Survivor, the contestants who embody the opposite of this: you "betrayed" me in a game literally built on betrayal, now I hate your soul and will live only for the chance to insult you at FTC, and I also hope you and your family die in a house fire.  Granted, usually these are the same mentally ill contestants who also talk behind someone's back about how they hate when people talk behind their back, or spend 10 minutes insulting someone and when they finally respond act as if the other person is "creating drama", etc, etc.  You know the type, in "Survivor" and in life.

 

Also, I mostly came to this thread to ask... does anyone else think Will looks a little like a young Jimmi Simpson, at least when he talks?

[LadyChatts]

At least Will picked a good time to flip.  Both sides did need his vote, so it's not like they would have gained much by voting him off.  Glad he finally made a move, and didn't want to just be a goat.  I was amused by Sunday at TC talking about how he wanted to be one of the adults and be taken seriously-like she's done anything in this game. 

I still don't think he's got any real shot at winning, and I have a feeling he's not going to be long for the game.  

Edited December 1, 2016 by LadyChatts

[Hera]

I've come around on Will. I thought the edit and the way people talked about him were a little unfair. His move was completely rational: Zeke was a threat to win if he made it to the end and Will probably would have been viewed as a coattail rider if he stuck with his alliance. He couldn't have predicted that Ken would blow up his game like that. I felt a bit bad that he had to smile and nod through that condescending lecture only to have Ken ruin his plan anyway.

[peachmangosteen]

I completely agree, @Hera. I also don't find him immature at all. I mean he's only 18 years old!

[LadyChatts]

You know, when I think about Will's big move last night, it ended up fizzling out.  It didn't matter as we saw, and it got overshadowed by Adam risking his idol on Hannah (which also ended up not mattering, but as some people said in the ep thread, it was what I consider a good waste of an idol).  However, that was a bigger deal to me, since that was Adam's own security net he could have held onto for himself.  I agree about his move, and that Zeke likely was a threat to win.  Whether others in Zeke's alliance really recognized that, or assumed they could take him out later when they had the other group gone, who knows.  I can appreciate that he wanted to create his own destiny in this game, and didn't like being bossed around like a kid.  He did well at standing up for himself, and especially taking the heat from his alliance after Ken outed him.  It didn't even seem like Zeke's group realized anyone had flipped until that moment.  They appeared to fully believe the reason David's side was calm was because they thought someone had an idol on that side (which they were right, they just had the wrong person).

In saying that, I'm still not much of a fan.  But he gained my respect this week.  I love people who make moves in this game more than anything, especially when they recognize they may not be in good standing with their alliance.

Edited December 2, 2016 by LadyChatts

[Nashville]

I felt kinda bad for Will on this latest episode.  All his talk about wanting to "make his big move" and be a flip/swing vote - but in the end nobody will remember or care how Will voted.  Adam's idol play totally eclipsed Will's relevance.

[Rachel RSL]

I completely disagree. There have been several instances where David used his idol and I was like "D'OH!" but, in this case, nobody had any way of knowing which way Will was going to vote. The way he was flip-flopping and whining about wanting to be seen as a grown-up, it was hard to tell which side he was actually more pissed at. Adam could have saved his idol and risked that Will would vote with them, or he could have played his idol and guaranteed that Zeke went home. There are some idol plays that are just dumb (David saving Jessica that early in the game...really??) but this one seemed like a good use, even if it didn't end up mattering after all.  I don't think the jury will see that as anything except a wise game move.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[fishcakes]

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I would argue that Adam had a way of knowing-- Will must've told him.

But Will also told Jay, Bret, Sunday, and Zeke that he was voting for Hannah. Will's word means nothing and everyone knows that now.

[Rachel RSL]

Quote

 He didn't do much because his alliance didn't let him make any decisions.

Or he had nothing to contribute. Which is why I was asking for an example. What decisions did his alliance ever cut him out of? Did he ever disagree with the plan and his alliance blew him off because of his age? What plan did he ever offer to his alliance and they shot him down? I'm not saying he's done nothing but I honestly don't remember him ever offering up a plan and his alliance ignoring him. Because that seems to be the gist of why he's upset.

As for Adam, why on earth is it bad game play to not trust the guy who just flipped on his alliance, then flipped back, then waffled back and forth for the rest of the time?

Edited December 2, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[peachmangosteen]

23 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm not saying Adam made the stupidest move ever but I don't think any waste of an idol due to not trusting the people who voted with you is ever a good move.

I think that could hurt Adam (and David/Ken/Hannah) with Will, but I don't know if it'll make any difference to the others. But yea, I do think it's possible that Will could be put off by the fact that Adam obviously didn't trust him and possibly go back to Bret/Sunday/Jay with a plan to boot Adam. But then it'd be a tie and I'm not sure he wants to go down that road again.

5 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Or he had nothing to contribute. Which is why I was asking for an example. What decisions did his alliance ever cut him out of? Did he ever disagree with the plan and his alliance blew him off because of his age? What plan did he ever offer to his alliance and they shot him down? I'm not saying he's done nothing but I honestly don't remember him ever offering up a plan and his alliance ignoring him. Because that seems to be the gist of why he's upset.

We weren't shown any of that, but that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen. I mean I feel like it must have or else Will wouldn't have been so upset. But also it doesn't neccessarily have to be because Will suggested a different plan and they shot him down, it could be more subtle than that.

[fishcakes]

7 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Lying is integral to the game.  Skill at knowing when/who to believe is, too.  

I agree, but your position is that Adam was stupid not to believe Will when he was telling the truth, but I don't necessarily think he was telling the truth. He was genuinely angry at Ken and at one point had decided to vote Ken out and said so in a confessional. He was telling both sides what they wanted to hear and keeping his options open. None of them knew what Will would do until he did it, and I don't think Will did either.

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

None of them knew what Will would do until he did it, and I don't think Will did either.

I think Will probably made his final decision during TC, too. Which is actually why I thought he was gonna vote with Zeke's group. I thought he would because I assumed that he was still closest to Jay and that Jay's words would've been the ones the resonated most with him. But Will is a very fickle guy in the game. At one point he was saying Hannah and Michaela were among his closest allies! He doesn't seem to have any real loyalty to anyone, which is fine, but makes it harder to predict his moves. Which is actually why I think David's group will probably target him next.

Edited December 2, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[simplyme]

34 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Or he had nothing to contribute. Which is why I was asking for an example. What decisions did his alliance ever cut him out of? Did he ever disagree with the plan and his alliance blew him off because of his age? What plan did he ever offer to his alliance and they shot him down? I'm not saying he's done nothing but I honestly don't remember him ever offering up a plan and his alliance ignoring him. Because that seems to be the gist of why he's upset.

Well, we don't get shown a lot of stuff that happens. I thought the editing did a decent job of at least suggesting it wasn't all in Will's head by showing Zeke, Brett, Sunday, and Jay hanging on the beach, having a little meeting and not bothering to include Will. They were careless enough to leave Will lying in the middle of the enemy alliance while they wandered off and ignored him.

I also thought Sunday's comments at TC highlighted what Will was saying. Whatever he does do, he doesn't get credit for. Then Sunday starts talking rather condescendingly about him and attributes his possible flip (which was 1% David pointing out the beach meeting and 99% Will seeing exactly where he stood and deciding to go for Zeke) to Will being approached and courted by the other side.

Even for the Michaela vote, which we are all pretty much attributing completely to Jay, Will talked Jay through the thought process on whether or not to vote her out, and brought up the point that she knew Jay had an HII. Had Will been opposed, it wouldn't have happened. 

Will was doing a good job of not playing too aggressively (as most people who have gone home have done) but still being active, IMO, but is now struggling with how to not come across as a coat tail rider. He also has the problem of his age, which is particularly problematic because some of the Gen Xers DO seem to treat the mid-to-late-20's Millennials differently than 18-year-old Will.

Obviously different people see different things in the editing and read people differently, so YMMV. But that's my argument pro-Will.

Edited December 2, 2016 by simplyme

[Rachel RSL]

One of the things I found fascinating about this whole clusterfuck that Ken caused, is that after Ken went to Jay, and exposed Will, they showed Will standing with Zeke's alliance, obviously pissed off at Ken, and he said something like: "Screw it. There are 5 of us!" (or words to that effect) I understand that Zeke's alliance needed Will's vote so they had to be nice about it but I just found it fascinating how Will seemed to think he could just fall back into that alliance as if nothing had ever happened. Sure, technically there were 5 of them but there was really no more "us". I mean, there was an "us" but Will was no longer part of that. He was simply a number that Zeke's alliance needed but he pretty much cemented his place firmly at the bottom of that totem pole.

Quote

Well, we don't get shown a lot of stuff that happens.

Of course not. That goes without saying. But seeing as how this turned out to be a major issue that climaxed with Will being the swing vote in a crucial TC, you'd think that the editors would have shown some of these issues along the way, purely from a story telling perspective. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Will was doing a good job of not playing too aggressively (as most people who have gone home have done) but still being active, IMO, but is now struggling with how to not come across as a coat tail rider. He also has the problem of his age, which is particularly problematic because some of the Gen Xers DO seem to treat the mid-to-late-20's Millennials differently than 18-year-old Will.

+1

Honestly, I am quite a fan of Will. And not just because he's one of only two players I have left in my fantasy pool!

Edited December 2, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[fishcakes]

8 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't recall it but I wonder if he was referring to Adam's side?  Like, "Screw this.  We have 5 on Adam's side.  I'm not going to stand here and pretend I didn't flip when I did, while Ken and the other senior players discuss my flip down on the beach and trash me.  I'm going to go own it and explain it because I was right to do it and still am."

No he was definitely referring to Zeke's alliance. Bret and Jay were saying to Will that Ken just blew up Will's game, and Will said, "screw it, I want him gone. We have five right here." Then there was some discussion that David might have found another idol and might give it to Ken, so they agreed to vote for Hannah instead. Then Will bumped fists with each of them.

[Rachel RSL]

Ok but nobody is ever more than a number to anyone else in Survivor. That's not something that just happened to Will because he's a special snowflake.  

[Rachel RSL]

He would have been #5 on David's alliance though too so I don't think being #5 was the reason he flipped.

[Jobiska]

From an exit interview:  
 

Quote

Holmes: What was the mood like before last night’s Tribal?
Wahl: There was a feeling in the pit of my stomach going into Tribal 

I never really minded Will, didn't think he was going to win, but I have to say that the correct use of "pit of my stomach" rather than "I had a pit in my stomach"  so popular among reality show participants (literally!) has caused him to rise greatly in my estimation!

[legaleagle53]

I feel like a dirty old man for saying this, but Will looked damn hot at the reunion with that short, masculine haircut of his -- so much better than the emo hair that he had in the game.  I'd love to see what he'll look like in 20 or 30 years if he's this handsome now.

[Rachel RSL]

Yeah, imagine after he goes through his growth spurt and his voice changes! 

[waving feather]

37 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Yeah, imagine after he goes through his growth spurt and his voice changes! 

I agree he looks really good but voice changes?! Goodness, can his voice get deeper than this? Lol.

[Rachel RSL]

I was being sarcastic. Still, it would be cool if it hasn't happened yet. He'd end up 8 feet tall and be able to summon demons from the Underworld with his voice.

[waving feather]

2 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I was being sarcastic. Still, it would be cool if it hasn't happened yet. He'd end up 8 feet tall and be able to summon demons from the Underworld with his voice.

Sorry I missed it, I must be tired. Haha.

Will is quite mature for his age (both mentally and physically). I enjoyed reading and listening to his exit interviews. Despite his "report card", he has a good head on his shoulders. His parents should be proud.

[Rachel RSL]

Heh. That's ok. We need a sarcasm font.  I agree about Will's maturity. Lord knows I was nowhere near that mature when I was 18. (It's possible I'm still not.)

[legaleagle53]

10 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Heh. That's ok. We need a sarcasm font.  I agree about Will's maturity. Lord knows I was nowhere near that mature when I was 18. (It's possible I'm still not.)

I only meant that I'd prefer him to be 20 or 30 years older and still looking that gorgeous, if for no other reason that I'm just more attracted to men who are closer to my own age.  I've never really been turned on by younger men, not even when I WAS a younger man.  It's just that I see a potential DILF in Will 30 or so years from now if he keeps it up (of course, by then I'll be in my 80s, so it's not likely to matter!  LOL).

[hincandenza]

I'm a decidedly heterosexual man (honest!!! :) ), but I can see where Will has potential; as much as he was flipped shit on these boards during his run on the show, he's mature for his age, and has a body that is going to fill out.  He's tall, lanky, and has broad shoulders with that "gap" between shoulder and chest; call me crazy, but when testosterone finishes its job in the next few years, Will could end up looking like a Greek God.  Or Ken. :)