Eve's Marathon Diary: Sex And The City Gets Too Big For Its Britches

[Primetimer]

As the show hits Season 3, our Marathon Diarist can't help but wonder if it's started to lose what made it great.

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[ChlcGirl]

While there are some really good episodes in S3, it is the season that yep, I really started hating Carrie. In addition I believe it was this season that her fashions started becoming completely in-fucking-sane.

[Princess Sparkle]

I have a lot of thoughts on season 3 (that I will write when I've had more coffee), but I will briefly say that while I find the LA episodes boring, Matthew McConnaughy pretending to be Big is still one of my favorite scenes in the entire series.  The way he goes from saying Big is the best and asking "What the fuck is Carrie's problem?", to suddenly bellowing out "That's bullshit Carrie and you know it!" without telling her he's now acting never fails to crack me up.  

[Joana]

Yep, S3 is when the show became too big for its own good. After that it wasn't about the dynamics of dating and friendship, it was about four women being faaaaabulous and living glamorous lives. All realism flew right out of window pretty soon. 

And Carrie became unbearable. Like it was said in previous threads, her affair with Big and the subsequent reaction to it was the turning point. That she acted like she was actually the wronged party and Natasha was somehow the bad guy in the whole story was seriously off-putting, and since people's reaction to it was inexplicably not nearly as negative as it should have been made writers think they could get away with pretty much anything. Carrie was always self-centered and oblivious to an extent, but after that she literally becomes unable of thinking or talking about anything other than herself. 

[BloggerAloud]

I always thought it was a nice wink to the gay following of the show that Carrie's seemingly ideal man would share the name as a famous gay porn star.

[FozzyBear]

I thought I was the only person on earth who hated Aiden. Among my circle of friends hating Aiden is like hating puppies or orphans. To be fair, Eve is right. I just don't like John Corbin and I never have. I didn't like Chris in the morning either. JC is like a walking, talking weak handshake *shudder*. I just can't with him. Plus, I'm sorry but Carrie and Aiden are one of those couples that only exist because TV writers like opposites attract conflict. They have nothing in common and in real life would have nothing to talk about and probably would never meet in the first place. They would be a miserable long term couple because one would always be doing something they don't want to do because they don't want any of the same things out of life. Honestly, I think Charlotte and Harry were the only realistic long term couple because while they did have some significant differences to work through they both more or less wanted the same upper east side family oriented lifestyle.

[zxy556575]

I liked Aiden fine, but enthusiastically cosign that he and Carrie would never have dated outside a sitcom. He would have found her vapid and materialistic and she would not have been attracted to his overly earnest, slow-talking, nightlife-hating ways.

[TheVoicesToldMeTo]

My biggest issue with Aiden was when a whopping 3 dates or so into his relationship with Carrie, he's insisting she stop smoking. I mean, it's a disgusting unhealthy habit but he came off controlling and holier-than-thou. I also thought he was a terrible casting choice just because of the height difference. I know you see tiny women with really tall guys all the time, but on screen it looks like a dad making out with his pre-teen daughter (ick).

[Quof]

Whereas I agreed with Aiden that smoking was a deal breaker.  He said "I can't date a smoker."  Fair warning to her - stop smoking, or the relationship isn't going any further.   The opposite of Harry getting so involved with Charlotte before telling her he couldn't marry someone who wasn't Jewish.   

[CaliCheeseSucks]

4 hours ago, Quof said:

Whereas I agreed with Aiden that smoking was a deal breaker.  He said "I can't date a smoker."  Fair warning to her - stop smoking, or the relationship isn't going any further.   The opposite of Harry getting so involved with Charlotte before telling her he couldn't marry someone who wasn't Jewish.   

Yeah, I wouldn't have made it to the third date before bringing it up. Major deal-breaker for me too.

[Inquisitionist]

5 hours ago, TheVoicesToldMeTo said:

My biggest issue with Aiden was when a whopping 3 dates or so into his relationship with Carrie, he's insisting she stop smoking.

It was their first date:  "Carrie's smoking becomes a problem when she goes on her first date with Aidan Shaw."  As others have noted, Aidan didn't insist on anything other than his position that "I can't date a smoker."  So what's Carrie's response?  She lies.  Says she hardly smokes at all.  This site explains it well:

Quote

At the end of their first date while sitting on the front steps of her brownstone Carrie reaches for her beloved Belmonts and lights up. To Carrie’s dismay, Aiden informs her that he will not date a smoker. It was nice to meet her but this relationship can’t go any further. Carrie couldn’t believe what happened. Not only that, she really liked him. She decides to stop by his store that week and explain to him that she only smokes after a few cocktails and had been planning to quit; no time like the present. She opens her purse to show Aiden that there are no cigarettes. He agrees to give her a chance and asks her if she would like to spend the afternoon with him. It turns into a day date and evening date; a whole day with out her Belmonts and Carrie finds herself craving a cigarette. Later that evening when she thinks the coast is clear she tells Aiden she has to step out for a minute. Happy to finally reunite with her best friend Belmonte Carrie lights up. While she is in nicotine bliss Aiden comes outside to look for her and catches her in the act. He doesn’t give Carrie a chance to explain herself and tells her he just can’t accept it.

[Joana]

Not to mention that he was actually willing to make a compromise when he thought she was having a hard time quitting and going through withdrawal symptoms (when she was actually feeling bad about sleeping with Big), as he had come to really like her by the time. 

The dude was bland and boring and they obviously weren't a match, but she really was awful to him, especially the second time around. Inviting Big to his cabin? God. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Quof said:

Whereas I agreed with Aiden that smoking was a deal breaker.  He said "I can't date a smoker."  Fair warning to her - stop smoking, or the relationship isn't going any further.   The opposite of Harry getting so involved with Charlotte before telling her he couldn't marry someone who wasn't Jewish.   

Maybe this UO but I would have dropped the relationship. I really don't like being dictated on what I can and can't do. If it had been me I would have told him just that.  

[Quof]

But he wasn't dictating anything to her.  She absolutely had a choice.  Instead, she wanted it both ways, so she lied about her smoking. 

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Maybe this UO but I would have dropped the relationship. I really don't like being dictated on what I can and can't do. If it had been me I would have told him just that.  

I agree.   Just as he has the right to not want to date a smoker, she has a right to not want to date someone who won't accept her as a smoker.

[zxy556575]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Maybe this UO but I would have dropped the relationship.

Ah, if only Carrie had a smidge of actualized self-worth. Instead, she defined herself through men's eyes and decided to lie to Aiden about who she was starting from their first hours together.

[Maherjunkie]

On 8/3/2016 at 10:07 AM, TheVoicesToldMeTo said:

My biggest issue with Aiden was when a whopping 3 dates or so into his relationship with Carrie, he's insisting she stop smoking. I mean, it's a disgusting unhealthy habit but he came off controlling and holier-than-thou. I also thought he was a terrible casting choice just because of the height difference. I know you see tiny women with really tall guys all the time, but on screen it looks like a dad making out with his pre-teen daughter (ick).

Oh leave Ivanka and Donald out of this! (Ok she got tall but you know what I mean)

[ChlcGirl]

On 8/2/2016 at 7:54 PM, FozzyBear said:

I thought I was the only person on earth who hated Aiden. Among my circle of friends hating Aiden is like hating puppies or orphans. To be fair, Eve is right. I just don't like John Corbin and I never have. I didn't like Chris in the morning either. JC is like a walking, talking weak handshake *shudder*. I just can't with him. Plus, I'm sorry but Carrie and Aiden are one of those couples that only exist because TV writers like opposites attract conflict. They have nothing in common and in real life would have nothing to talk about and probably would never meet in the first place. They would be a miserable long term couple because one would always be doing something they don't want to do because they don't want any of the same things out of life. Honestly, I think Charlotte and Harry were the only realistic long term couple because while they did have some significant differences to work through they both more or less wanted the same upper east side family oriented lifestyle.

I am cosigning on every single bit of the above!

Also - how in the hell was it that SANFORD was the one one who originally thought that Aidan (with his Navajo turquoise and lank hair) was soooo dreamy that he and Carrie had to hustle down to the store to see him in person.  I gave Sanford more credit than that.

[ShellSeeker]

This was the season of what were for me Carrie's 2 biggest WTF moments. First, lounging around in Big and Natasha's apartment after her tryst with Big was over and he left. Any other self-respecting other woman would have gotten dressed and gotten the hell out of there immediately. And had she done that, Natasha would not have fallen down the stairs and broken her tooth. Not Carrie. No, she decides to take a shower and then poke through the fridge for a snack. Was she pretending that she and Big were married and that she lived there? 

And then, a few episodes later, she is shocked, shocked, when Natasha gives her a scathing and scornful glare when she arrives at the restaurant where Carrie happens to be having lunch with the girls. And then she says, "I can't believe anyone in New York hates me that much," in a voice so pitiful you'd think she was a puppy that had just been kicked. Uh, you banged her husband. In their bed. And when you ran away like a coward you caused her to sustain a serious injury. You halfwit.

And then she has the nerve to ambush Natasha at lunch, just because she's decided she's ready to apologize -- and helps herself to Natasha's glass of water while she's at it. Really, truly record setting levels of cluelessness, selfishness, and all-around unawareness. I did love Natasha's epic smackdown of her though. That was awesome.

[AndySmith]

I'm not quite sure if it was prior to this season that the show blew up and became a mainstream part of pop culture, or after the season had aired. I do remember the show getting more buzz and attention between seasons 2 and 3, so it might have been while season 3 was airing that the show became the pop culture phenomenon. In any case, I always considered season 4 to be when it became "too big for it's britches", but that might be because I enjoyed season 3 so much more than season 4.

With regards to Aidan and no smoking: I put that on Carrie. He basically told her he couldn't date a smoker (and really, is that any less ridiculous than any of the reasons we saw the girls dumping some of the guys they dated?), and Carrie, instead of just walking away, wanted to keep dating him AND keep smoking, which, no Carrie. I'm a smoker myself, and I've had cute guys tell me they don't date smokers. I accept it and move on, I don't date them while puffing away in private while lying to them. Then again, I guess I don't need the validation that Carrie does.

With regards to Aidan in general: yeah, they wouldn't have worked in the long term. And Carrie is much worse to him in season 4 than she is here. Next season he becomes the Carrie to her Big, which would have provided some growth for Carrie, and some self-realization, but no, Carrie never learns. From anything. And while I do appreciate the idea of diversity, none of the actors listed could have pulled off Aidan, except for Mark Ruffalo. I think only would have made a great Aidan.

With regards to Charlotte and Trey: I see what they were going for, Charlotte lands a guy who checks all the boxes on her list, but still somehow ends up with something that doesn't fulfill her or make her happy. I do wish they went a different route behind his impotence; having Bunny as a mother-in-law I think would have been a better reason for their problems and eventual split. Then again, it is consistent with what we've seen with the group with regards to ending relationships; Samantha dumped a guy for a too-small dick, and Miranda dumped a guy (twice) for failing to ever give her the Big O.

With regards to Carrie: I liked her up until the affair. Or rather, I liked her up until her actions post affair. The affair itself was just good drama, but Carrie's shock that Natasha would hate Carrie for repeatedly fucking Natasha's husband (the "I had him first!" argument doesn't work, Carrie), and then expecting Natasha to forgive her at the restaurant was just a sign of how delusional Carrie was becoming by then. It was also a sign of the writers falling too much in love with Carrie, or SJP exerting more influence, but whatever, it does feel like it was the start of "Carrie can never admit she was wrong", which made both Carrie and show a bit less interesting, and certainly made Carrie much more unlikable for me. Carrie was lucky all Natasha did was chew her out verbally, if you ask me.

As for the show itself...despite all of the above, I still really enjoyed season 3. It does seem to be a transitional year, though, in hindsight, since the show does seem to turn into more of a soap opera for the next 3 seasons. The first 3 seasons do seem to be more about dating and living in NYC. Maybe that's why I enjoyed them more than seasons 4 through 6.

Sorry for the long post...

[FozzyBear]

One of my biggest issues with Aiden/Carrie was that I could never figure out what they saw in each other to begin with. I mean that from both ends because I never thought Aiden was that great or that Carrie was that bad. And while I thought the chemistry between JC and SJP was fine, it wasn't off the charts hot. So you had two people with nothing in common who seemed only mildly attracted to each other and....what? Why are either of them there? By the time the affair came along I sort of didn't care because they never seemed like a real couple to me. I never had any real jeopardy attached to that couple because I never felt like the show established why they were a couple in the first place. Hell, I cared more and Chuck/Blair on Gossip Girl than I did about Aiden/Carrie. 

[Quof]

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/46305-worst-tv-love-interests/#comment-2463984

Come on over to Worst TV Love Interests. So far, Leonard and Penny seem to be winning.

[Inquisitionist]

On 8/3/2016 at 8:20 PM, ByTor said:

 Just as he has the right to not want to date a smoker, she has a right to not want to date someone who won't accept her as a smoker.

A right she didn't exercise.  She wanted to have her cake and smoke it, too.

[ByTor]

I never said she did, just that she would have had the right to.

[Inquisitionist]

But we're talking about the show and what Carrie actually did.  :-)  She certainly had the right to walk away, choosing smoking over Aidan.  She also had the right to stop smoking so that she could be with Aidan.  She did not have the right to lie to him about how much she smoked so that she could try to have both. 

[Princess Sparkle]

On 8/6/2016 at 2:50 AM, AndySmith said:

With regards to Carrie: I liked her up until the affair. Or rather, I liked her up until her actions post affair. The affair itself was just good drama, but Carrie's shock that Natasha would hate Carrie for repeatedly fucking Natasha's husband (the "I had him first!" argument doesn't work, Carrie), and then expecting Natasha to forgive her at the restaurant was just a sign of how delusional Carrie was becoming by then. It was also a sign of the writers falling too much in love with Carrie, or SJP exerting more influence, but whatever, it does feel like it was the start of "Carrie can never admit she was wrong", which made both Carrie and show a bit less interesting, and certainly made Carrie much more unlikable for me. Carrie was lucky all Natasha did was chew her out verbally, if you ask me.

 

I agree.  I also liked her through the affair - I don't condone cheating, but I completely got why she did it.  She wasn't 100% all in with Aiden, she was feeling down on herself by feeling less worthy than Natasha (I always felt for Carrie with her "She's shiny Vera Wang style section and I'm the sex column they run next to the ads for penile implants), and now all of a sudden, Big is pursuing her HARD which is what she wanted.  She now feels as beautiful and as worthy of Big's love as the type of woman Natasha represented, and Big was giving her the validation that he wanted her over Natasha.  Quite honestly, I always felt icked out with how Big pursued Carrie in the elevator - dude, she is repeatedly telling you "NO! Get away from me"; take a hint.  

But after the affair is discovered, I'm off the Carrie train.  Begging for Natasha's forgiveness is one of the most tone-deaf things she did in the entire series.  Your right, this is the start of "Carrie can do no wrong" which isn't interesting - the flawed Carrie of seasons 1 - 3 is far more interesting than the Carrie of season 4 - 6.  

As for why Carrie and Aiden were attracted to each other, I actually bought that.  I didn't think they were long-term compatible, but at least from Carrie's end, she was looking for someone who was the opposite of Big, and that was Aiden.  And while Carrie could get a little cuckoo once she was in relationships, I always bought why men would be attracted to her - she's pretty, she's great at initial small talk and flirting, and for the most part, wasn't clingy in the early stages of a relationship.  It's the second go-around of their relationship that I didn't get.  Carrie's "I have missed him so much" when she sees him at Steve's bar never rang true to me, and just seemed like an excuse to give her another long-term relationship with someone who wasn't Big.

[AndySmith]

Quote

Begging for Natasha's forgiveness is one of the most tone-deaf things she did in the entire series

It wasn't necessarily the begging itself that bugged me, but rather Carrie's expectations. It seemed that Carrie felt Natasha OWED her some type of forgiveness or something, and for Natasha to reassure Carrie that she wasn't a horrible person. And I never felt like Carrie was doing it solely because she felt genuinely sorry, it also felt like she didn't want Natasha telling people in New York's high society (ie the fashionista jet-setting crowd) about what Carrie did.

Really, Carrie's apology wasn't about making Natasha feel better, it was about making Carrie feel better.

[katha]

16 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

But after the affair is discovered, I'm off the Carrie train.  Begging for Natasha's forgiveness is one of the most tone-deaf things she did in the entire series.  Your right, this is the start of "Carrie can do no wrong" which isn't interesting - the flawed Carrie of seasons 1 - 3 is far more interesting than the Carrie of season 4 - 6.  

I actually liked the Natasha confrontation, because it seemed to really dig into Carrie's dark underbelly as a character but without being preachy about it. Natasha gets her speech chewing Carrie out for being so hurtful and self-absorbed that she'd insist on confronting Natasha even though Natasha was obviously avoiding her. I didn't need any more, the writing had made perfectly clear what a tool Carrie was, that she herself wasn't quite that self-aware...eh, to some degree that always rang true to life about the show. No one wants to have a bad view of themselves and constantly live with self-loathing and no self-esteem, so even the mistakes and bad behaviours get rationalized to some degree to keep the positive narrative in your head about yourself going. Carrie was often obnoxious and selfish, but I think it also stood out so much because she was the main character.

Even in the later seasons where I agree Carrie developed a case of "special snowflake" that hadn't been there before, the flaws were still there and often enough acknowledged. And you also had the consequences of her actions and decisions in the life she lived, good and bad. That one New Yorker article that talks about her getting more fearful and anxious the older she got and how that wasn't pleasant, but rang true, I always agreed with that. And in the later seasons the realization that her lifestyle might not be so pleasantly crazy and fabulous as she got older, her friends moving on and starting families while she stayed the same Carrie she'd been with 29. The relationship with Aleks that IMO was played with an undercurrent of anxiety/desperation on SJP's part to convey that Carrie was a bit lost and trying to find solid ground again. There was lots of cop-outs and fairytale BS, but IMO what they did acknowledge about growing older for Carrie and the other women was interesting and more than TV series like that had shown before.

Edited August 9, 2016 by katha

[zxy556575]

19 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

Begging for Natasha's forgiveness is one of the most tone-deaf things she did in the entire series.

I thought begging Aidan to take her back was worse, to be honest. Taking her apology to Natasha at face value, the motive -- however misguided -- wasn't awful. Because of her own neuroses, Carrie of course wasn't able to leave it at that and once again made it all about herself, but I didn't loathe the idea of a personal apology. However I couldn't find any shred of good intentions in Carrie BEGGING Aidan to take her back when she (1) knew fully well how hurt and damaged he was by her betrayal, and (2) also knew he wasn't the man she ultimately wanted to spend her life with. Both actions were extremely selfish and hurt others, but Aidan had skin in the game with Carrie while Natasha did not.

I also don't know if I as a viewer was supposed to feel sympathy for Carrie while watching her completely abase herself in both situations? Or maybe it was supposed to be funny? I doubt the desired emotion was revulsion.

[katha]

18 minutes ago, lordonia said:

I also don't know if I as a viewer was supposed to feel sympathy for Carrie while watching her completely abase herself in both situations? Or maybe it was supposed to be funny? I doubt the desired emotion was revulsion.

The show was muddy on that. But I don't think that just because it was told from Carrie's perspective, viewers were always expected to take her side. IMO that also didn't change in the later seasons. With Aidan I thought it was pretty clear that getting back together was bad decision-making and that she did it out of questionable motives, they might not have wanted to inspire hatred and revulsion towards Carrie, but it was presented in an ambivalent way. Of course, I always thought that Carrie was a classic anti-heroine in the Dr. House, Seinfeld and so on vein, so I wasn't bothered by her less than awesome self.

[Mu Shu]

I too thought Carrie was an anti heroine, and recall SJP being surprised that people found her otherwise.   Even though she was enormously self centered, she was as good a friend that personality type could be, and I always dug her fashion sense for the most part.   It was obvious IMO in the later seasons that the others were moving on and growing up, and Carrie just couldn't do it, and it was sad to me.  Carrie was often a good friend, often funny, and often fabulous looking, but her life was small and sad.  Not fabulous at all.    I give SJP kudos for adding pathos to the shallow  "fabulous" persona she was saddled with.  Man, what a team of good writers could have done with this cast.    

[Bb78]

On 03/08/2016 at 0:54 AM, FozzyBear said:

I thought I was the only person on earth who hated Aiden. Among my circle of friends hating Aiden is like hating puppies or orphans. To be fair, Eve is right. I just don't like John Corbin and I never have. I didn't like Chris in the morning either. JC is like a walking, talking weak handshake *shudder*. I just can't with him. Plus, I'm sorry but Carrie and Aiden are one of those couples that only exist because TV writers like opposites attract conflict. They have nothing in common and in real life would have nothing to talk about and probably would never meet in the first place. They would be a miserable long term couple because one would always be doing something they don't want to do because they don't want any of the same things out of life. Honestly, I think Charlotte and Harry were the only realistic long term couple because while they did have some significant differences to work through they both more or less wanted the same upper east side family oriented lifestyle.

Carrie and Aidan are like ice cream with ?. He's a lovely guy , layer back but enjoys simplicity. Which is fine but Cartke was more if an active soul. She had her new paper colomn going on, out and about meeting people. Aidan was none of that their was no similarity between them at all. 

 

I remember the episode when carrie came home and wanted to go out on the town but Aidan had bought a bucket of fried chicken for them to enjoy in front if the box. Lol He's from the country side and nights in are more his cup of tea.

[Gothish520]

On 8/9/2016 at 12:57 AM, AndySmith said:

It wasn't necessarily the begging itself that bugged me, but rather Carrie's expectations. It seemed that Carrie felt Natasha OWED her some type of forgiveness or something, and for Natasha to reassure Carrie that she wasn't a horrible person. And I never felt like Carrie was doing it solely because she felt genuinely sorry, it also felt like she didn't want Natasha telling people in New York's high society (ie the fashionista jet-setting crowd) about what Carrie did.

Really, Carrie's apology wasn't about making Natasha feel better, it was about making Carrie feel better.

I agree, it was about making Carrie feel better, but I don't think it had much to do with New York society - I think she just hated that Natasha hated her, and wanted to assuage her guilt about the situation by having Natasha say something, anything, to make her feel better about herself. 

[Gothish520]

On 8/9/2016 at 8:23 AM, Lord Donia said:

I thought begging Aidan to take her back was worse, to be honest. Taking her apology to Natasha at face value, the motive -- however misguided -- wasn't awful. Because of her own neuroses, Carrie of course wasn't able to leave it at that and once again made it all about herself, but I didn't loathe the idea of a personal apology. However I couldn't find any shred of good intentions in Carrie BEGGING Aidan to take her back when she (1) knew fully well how hurt and damaged he was by her betrayal, and (2) also knew he wasn't the man she ultimately wanted to spend her life with. Both actions were extremely selfish and hurt others, but Aidan had skin in the game with Carrie while Natasha did not.

I also don't know if I as a viewer was supposed to feel sympathy for Carrie while watching her completely abase herself in both situations? Or maybe it was supposed to be funny? I doubt the desired emotion was revulsion.

I think Carrie begging for Aidan to take her back was rough, yes. It showed her desperation and insecurity. But, I also agree with Carrie that if they were going to continue seeing each other, then Aidan DID have to forgive her - because he had been treating her like crap up to that point. Not saying I don't understand his feelings, but there's no way they could continue a relationship with that passive-aggressive pain-infliction going on.

With that being said, Carrie telling Aidan that she couldn't cut Big out of her life - that was straight-up bullshit. That is the one time (so far) that I am not on her side, especially with all that had already transpired. She should've told Big to stop calling her, point blank. 

Now, with THAT being said, the episode when Big goes to Aidan's cabin turns out to be a pretty amusing episode. And I do get where Big and Carrie are coming from, sort of - you can't or won't commit to someone, but you still want them in your life, even if only as a friend. But it's supremely unfair to your current partner, and usually just leads to problems and heartache. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Gothish520
spelling

[BBHN]

Quote

I agree, it was about making Carrie feel better, but I don't think it had much to do with New York society

This is Carrie, the woman who was shocked that she was included in the "real people", and not the models, during the fashion show in season 4. It was very much about how New York society would be viewing her ("Is she the bitch who broke up John and Natasha's marriage?").

Quote

I also don't know if I as a viewer was supposed to feel sympathy for Carrie while watching her completely abase herself in both situations? Or maybe it was supposed to be funny? I doubt the desired emotion was revulsion.

It was revulsion for me in both cases lol

[Melancholy]

9 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I think Carrie begging for Aidan to take her back was rough, yes. It showed her desperation and insecurity. But, I also agree with Carrie that if they were going to continue seeing each other, then Aidan DID have to forgive her - because he had been treating her like crap up to that point. Not saying I don't understand his feelings, but there's no way they could continue a relationship with that passive-aggressive pain-infliction going on.

With that being said, Carrie telling Aidan that she couldn't cut Big out of her life - that was straight-up bullshit. That is the one time (so far) that I am not on her side, especially with all that had already transpired. She should've told Big to stop calling her, point blank. 

Now, with THAT being said, the episode when Big goes to Aidan's cabin turns out to be a pretty amusing episode. And I do get where Big and Carrie are coming from, sort of - you can't or won't commit to someone, but you still want them in your life, even if only as a friend. But it's surpremely unfair to your current partner, and usually just leads to problems and heartache. 

I don’t have a problem with Carrie just requesting Aiden treat her well after he’d been mean and resentful in a vacuum. My issues are as follows:

1. I think it’s an unbelievably delicate proposition to ask to be taken back after cheating. It’s a big deal to reopen those wounds. It should only be tried if you have every intention of treating your partner like gold and doing everything within reason to earn trust back. It can work but it requires a true change from the cheater. I don’t believe Carrie was there. She got an itch for a new in-shape Aiden and that’s all there was to it. No thought given to his expectations. No commitment to stop hanging with Big. She was just surprised when his negative feelings started leaking out. She shouldn’t have asked for another relationship.  

2. Carrie further provoked Aiden’s anger by not being as sensitive and devoted to his happiness as a forgiven cheater should be. She had no rights to fish for compliments on not “cheating” with cigarettes or antagonistically ask where the guys were at the bar or congratulate herself for being an excellent girlfriend for offering to walk Pete once. 

3. Perhaps this is more a stylistic thing but Carrie repeating over and over again “You HAVE to forgive me” was annoying at best and manipulative at worst. I would have been much more Ok with Carrie if she just said something like “If we’re going to try this relationship again, I want to know that you truly forgive me and you’re in this to be happy instead of to punish me. It’s important to both of our happiness.” This repetition that Aiden has some obligation to forgive her (when he does not) bothered me. 

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, Melancholy said:

I don’t have a problem with Carrie just requesting Aiden treat her well after he’d been mean and resentful in a vacuum. My issues are as follows:

1. I think it’s an unbelievably delicate proposition to ask to be taken back after cheating. It’s a big deal to reopen those wounds. It should only be tried if you have every intention of treating your partner like gold and doing everything within reason to earn trust back. It can work but it requires a true change from the cheater. I don’t believe Carrie was there. She got an itch for a new in-shape Aiden and that’s all there was to it. No thought given to his expectations. No commitment to stop hanging with Big. She was just surprised when his negative feelings started leaking out. She shouldn’t have asked for another relationship.  

2. Carrie further provoked Aiden’s anger by not being as sensitive and devoted to his happiness as a forgiven cheater should be. She had no rights to fish for compliments on not “cheating” with cigarettes or antagonistically ask where the guys were at the bar or congratulate herself for being an excellent girlfriend for offering to walk Pete once. 

3. Perhaps this is more a stylistic thing but Carrie repeating over and over again “You HAVE to forgive me” was annoying at best and manipulative at worst. I would have been much more Ok with Carrie if she just said something like “If we’re going to try this relationship again, I want to know that you truly forgive me and you’re in this to be happy instead of to punish me. It’s important to both of our happiness.” This repetition that Aiden has some obligation to forgive her (when he does not) bothered me. 

Very well said.

1. I don't think Carrie gave Aiden any thought until she ran into him. Then suddenly she was chasing him.

2. The fishing for complements was annoying. And hardly important if she was really trying to build a relationship with Aiden.

3. If Carrie had said the latter that would have made more sense. And honestly it was something they should talk about. But Carrie can not and will not look at anything from anyone's point of view. She wants him to forgive her, she wants it right now. Its not too different from demanding Big tell her she's the one right then and there. She wants relationships to go at the pace she wants and who cares what the other person is thinking or feeling, or simply not ready for. Carrie starts dating Aiden again but she hardly gives him enough time during the dating to get to the place where he trusts her. After cheating usually the one cheated on does need more time or takes longer to trust again. Which makes sense and if Carrie really wanted Aiden (which I'm still not sure she did) to trust her. She would have given him time to do so while they were dating. She wouldn't be provoking his anger by not cheating with cigarettes or be congratulated for being an excellent girlfriend. Also wouldn't be trying to make him spend time with the person she cheated on him with.  She would forget all about that person and work on rebuilding trust with Aiden. 

[Gothish520]

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

3. If Carrie had said the latter that would have made more sense. And honestly it was something they should talk about. But Carrie can not and will not look at anything from anyone's point of view. She wants him to forgive her, she wants it right now. Its not too different from demanding Big tell her she's the one right then and there. She wants relationships to go at the pace she wants and who cares what the other person is thinking or feeling, or simply not ready for. Carrie starts dating Aiden again but she hardly gives him enough time during the dating to get to the place where he trusts her. After cheating usually the one cheated on does need more time or takes longer to trust again. Which makes sense and if Carrie really wanted Aiden (which I'm still not sure she did) to trust her. She would have given him time to do so while they were dating. She wouldn't be provoking his anger by not cheating with cigarettes or be congratulated for being an excellent girlfriend. Also wouldn't be trying to make him spend time with the person she cheated on him with.  She would forget all about that person and work on rebuilding trust with Aiden. 

I would've been completely on board with the "you have to forgive me" scene, and I think it would've been a lot more powerful, if when Aidan said Big had to go that Carrie agreed, and told Aidan that the next time she saw or talked to Big, she'd tell him to leave her alone.