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Artistic Gymnastics: Stick the Landing!

HartofDixie

By HartofDixie
in 2016 Olympics

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GreyBunny
GreyBunny

Gabby has worked her ass off for years, has been a proud member of the US team, and is a great role model for young kids who are up and coming. To say that her not putting her hand over her heart nega

KBrownie
KBrownie

It's not about being "PC" as you put it.  He literally tried to erase her parents from her life to fit whatever narrative he has in his head about what family means.  It's not some trite quibble over

walnutqueen
walnutqueen

Protocol is not law, and has nothing to do with being an American.  Fortunately, Americans live in a free country where they have the right to disagree with your sentiments and still be Americans (and

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kittykat

kittykat

(edited)
7 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

China needs to average about 15.9 on HB to beat Japan. It ain't happening. Hopefully Russia does well enough on floor for second. I want Chinese tears of bronze this year.

You're nicer than me.  At this point I'm hoping for Japan/Russia/Great Britain finish.

ETA:  GODDAMMIT LOUIS!  Alright I'm cursing my favorites.  I'm shutting the hell up.

Edited by kittykat
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blackwing

blackwing

I only watch gymnastics once every four years.  But I'm curious as to why the U.S. women seem to be consistently strong (last 3 all around champions and sure to be 4 after this week, and strong team competition)... but the U.S. men seem to consistently stink.  I guess Paul Hamm was good, but why is it so hard for USA gymnastics to field a strong men's team?  This is a huge country, surely there are five male gymnasts who are good?

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Daisy

Daisy

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

I only watch gymnastics once every four years.  But I'm curious as to why the U.S. women seem to be consistently strong (last 3 all around champions and sure to be 4 after this week, and strong team competition)... but the U.S. men seem to consistently stink.  I guess Paul Hamm was good, but why is it so hard for USA gymnastics to field a strong men's team?  This is a huge country, surely there are five male gymnasts who are good?

I would argue a few things. 

1: Karyoli power. they are magicians. 
2: the CoP - I think the USA gymnasts are very powerful and muscular so they are able to muscle out a lot of harder moves. So they can take advantage that there isn't a lot of emphasis on the artistic, and really maximze their difficulty. (so even if they fell, they're still good). 

and 3: with the Men - i don't even think that it's that they sttink. they've sent good teams. they just gas-can themselves. i don't really follow MAG - but it really seems like they don't have 2 events where they can pull ahead like the others can 

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choclatechip45

choclatechip45

(edited)
5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I only watch gymnastics once every four years.  But I'm curious as to why the U.S. women seem to be consistently strong (last 3 all around champions and sure to be 4 after this week, and strong team competition)... but the U.S. men seem to consistently stink.  I guess Paul Hamm was good, but why is it so hard for USA gymnastics to field a strong men's team?  This is a huge country, surely there are five male gymnasts who are good?

I don't think they invest as much money in it Does anyone know if they have a developmental director like the Us women do? Also do they have a program like TOPS? They have all these programs set up to identify young talent I remember seeing a photo of the Tops national team from 2005 and it had Aly, Jordyn, Gabby and Elizabeth Price (2012 alternate). Plus Martha has been criticized for it but she often sends the girls to Team based international competitons. While the men go to both.

Edited by choclatechip45
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DawnDavenport

DawnDavenport

Just now, blackwing said:

I only watch gymnastics once every four years.  But I'm curious as to why the U.S. women seem to be consistently strong (last 3 all around champions and sure to be 4 after this week, and strong team competition)... but the U.S. men seem to consistently stink.  I guess Paul Hamm was good, but why is it so hard for USA gymnastics to field a strong men's team?  This is a huge country, surely there are five male gymnasts who are good?

I think the biggest contrast between the US men and women is that the US mean come primarily from the NCAA ranks and they peak in their early to mid 20's whereas the women peak much earlier, between 15-20. Also, compared to other international men's programs, the US men are going to college full-time and most of them are focused on studying and maintaining scholarships whereas in other countries the men train as their primary profession. So the elite US women can primarily focus on training since they don't enter college until after their Olympic careers are over.

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kittykat

kittykat

(edited)
6 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I only watch gymnastics once every four years.  But I'm curious as to why the U.S. women seem to be consistently strong (last 3 all around champions and sure to be 4 after this week, and strong team competition)... but the U.S. men seem to consistently stink.  I guess Paul Hamm was good, but why is it so hard for USA gymnastics to field a strong men's team?  This is a huge country, surely there are five male gymnasts who are good?

I was just thinking that the last time the US had a shot at gold was the Paul Hamm led 2004 team.  Unfortunately their faults in that final were par for the course: Pommels and Rings.  They excelled at both bars as usual (especially Paul as we saw in AA) but their shortcomings on Pommel and Rings have always set them back farther than China and Japan.

It's tough when there's only five gymnasts for six rotations.  Unlike the women's where you can put one or two specialists on your team there's more pressure for the men to focus on all-around skills.  I think they made a smart move in putting a PH specialist (Naddour) on the team to strengthen those scores but in the past two Olympics it's been nerves.  The US men are wonderful in tryouts but falter in finals. 

Take this most recent final, if the US hadn't faltered on Floor and Leyva didn't fall on HB that bronze could've been ours.

But time for celebrations. JAPAN <3 <3 <3

I know Russia is in the doghouse everywhere else but I'm happy for their silver.

TEEEARRRS OF BRONNNNZZE

Edited by kittykat
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Growsonwalls

Growsonwalls

Aww I feel bad for CHN and USA. They made mistakes but I never like to see guys so miserable. I also hate the reverse sexism involved where it's okay for girl gymnasts to be in a puddle of tears but guys have to bro it up and act tough. MAG is one of the most punishing sports for guys and they all work very hard.

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choclatechip45

choclatechip45

I think the men peaked too soon I think it was a bad idea having trials so early. The men looked perfect at trials which is never a good thing. I think it's a good thing to have a few mistakes. I remember Sam Peszek and Chelsie looked perfect at the 08 trials and both were injured. While Nastia made some errors. Granted they did have that stupid camp so maybe that's a bad example. 

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DawnDavenport

DawnDavenport

6 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I was just thinking that the last time the US had a shot at gold was the Paul Hamm led 2004 team.  Unfortunately their faults in that final were par for the course: Pommels and Rings.  They excelled at both bars as usual (especially Paul as we saw in AA) but their shortcomings on Pommel and Rings have always set them back farther than China and Japan.

It's tough when there's only five gymnasts for six rotations.  Unlike the women's where you can put one or two specialists on your team there's more pressure for the men to focus on all-around skills.  I think they made a smart move in putting a PH specialist (Naddour) on the team to strengthen those scores but in the past two Olympics it's been nerves.  The US men are wonderful in tryouts but falter in finals. 

I just looked and all they needed to do was do the same floor routines they did in qualifying and they would have been China. It's so maddening. 

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Growsonwalls

Growsonwalls

1 minute ago, DawnDavenport said:

I just looked and all they needed to do was do the same floor routines they did in qualifying and they would have been China. It's so maddening. 

But that's been the US mens' pattern. They have a history of going strong in prelims and doing not so hot in finals. I mean they're scored fairly, so they can't do a wuzrobbed thing. They didn't medal because they made mistakes.

Personally if I was an athlete I'd feel 100x better if I didn't medal because I legitimately made mistakes and just didn't hit the way I needed to rather than if I was scored unfairly.

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kittykat

kittykat

(edited)

Been looking at the breakdown on NBC.  US was 3rd in Vault and P. Bars, 4th on Rings and 5th on Floor, H. Bar and Pommels.

The 4th on Rings is a great sign.  The 5th on Floor and H. Bar is a disappointment should've been third or fourth but them's the breaks.

This truly was a competition of every move mattering.  Interesting that even with Louis' fall GB still placed first on Pommels.  They're just that good.

Which of course means that the Primetime coverage will be minimal at best.  Probably just show the Japan/Russia and US/China contingents and not all of their rotations.

Edited by kittykat
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DawnDavenport

DawnDavenport

18 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I was just thinking that the last time the US had a shot at gold was the Paul Hamm led 2004 team.  Unfortunately their faults in that final were par for the course: Pommels and Rings.  They excelled at both bars as usual (especially Paul as we saw in AA) but their shortcomings on Pommel and Rings have always set them back farther than China and Japan.

It's tough when there's only five gymnasts for six rotations.  Unlike the women's where you can put one or two specialists on your team there's more pressure for the men to focus on all-around skills.  I think they made a smart move in putting a PH specialist (Naddour) on the team to strengthen those scores but in the past two Olympics it's been nerves.  The US men are wonderful in tryouts but falter in finals. 

China looks so miserable on the podium. The Russians look genuinely happy. 

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greendog78

greendog78

1 minute ago, DawnDavenport said:

China looks so miserable on the podium.

Maybe now they'll finally get the message that they need to clean up their execution if they want to win gold. If Louis Smith hadn't fallen, they wouldn't be on the podium.

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Quilt Fairy

Quilt Fairy

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm disappointed for Gabby Douglas.  Especially since she seems like such a nice person and a gracious competitor.  I think it's fantastic that she knew that she was no longer the best and had been eclipsed by Simone Biles, yet came back to compete anyways, just for the experience and the chance.

I'm of the opposite opinion. Gabby has her Gold medals , she left the sport, now's the time to pass it on to the next generation so they can have the experience and the chance. It's a short window when these athletes are world class (except for that 41yo woman), the team is only five women and we have deep pool of talent. I feel the same way about Aly coming back.

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Jillibean

Jillibean

Quote

I just looked and all they needed to do was do the same floor routines they did in qualifying and they would have been China. It's so maddening. 

Unfortunately, there were just so many mistakes throughout. From the out of bounds times two and fall on floor to Alex's botched dismount on PH to Danell's high bar fall--you just can't win a medal with that many mistakes. And many of the routines that didn't have major catastrophes still had what Martha would call "places we can make improvements." Mikulak messed up majorly on the floor but hauled in a fine score on PH and big scores on all of his other events. A shame he let nerves get the best of him on his first event. And Naddour really let those jitters in as well, turning in a very messy floor performance and a subpar performance on the event he was basically brought to compete on.

I felt for Danell. He just looked so stunned and crushed when he came off that bar. What a time to miss on your best event. 

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DawnDavenport

DawnDavenport

1 minute ago, greendog78 said:

Maybe now they'll finally get the message that they need to clean up their execution if they want to win gold. If Louis Smith hadn't fallen, they wouldn't be on the podium.

Not only that, they need to compete on more than just two events. Keep in mind they only qualified 2 gymnasts each to rings and parallel bars. They had no other event qualifiers. This is my problem with their approach. It worked well for them when the code was new but now the other teams are catching up to them. Other teams can match them parallel bars and are more consistent on the other events. Plus, they generally are weak on high bar as well. 

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Scovies

Scovies

Just now, Quilt Fairy said:

I'm of the opposite opinion. Gabby has her Gold medals , she left the sport, now's the time to pass it on to the next generation so they can have the experience and the chance. It's a short window when these athletes are world class (except for that 41yo woman), the team is only five women and we have deep pool of talent. I feel the same way about Aly coming back.

Why should she pass on the torch when she finished 2nd in the world last year? And Aly finished 2nd in the all-around in qualifying (and Gabby 3rd!). It's not like they're hanging on in some pathetic way; they've still got the gymnastics to back it up. If you're talented enough to compete in multiple Olympics, you should do it.

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kittykat

kittykat

2 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

Not only that, they need to compete on more than just two events. Keep in mind they only qualified 2 gymnasts each to rings and parallel bars. They had no other event qualifiers. This is my problem with their approach. It worked well for them when the code was new but now the other teams are catching up to them. Other teams can match them parallel bars and are more consistent on the other events. Plus, they generally are weak on high bar as well. 

Funny that China's two weakest events, Floor and High Bar, are usually the the American's strongest and the Team US faltered on both of those whereas they performed better on Pommel and Rings than usual.

But it's true China needs to stop relying on Rings and P. Bars if they want to stay in the game with Japan and the resurging Russians.  One of these days the US will get it right.  This time they were Good on weak events, Bad on strong ones.  Hit ALL THE EVENTS US.  

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Growsonwalls

Growsonwalls

Um not that I'd want to wish this kind of pressure on anyone but I was wondering if US MAG might do better if there were the monster expectations for the team that the Japanese, Chinese, and British have for their gymnasts (and the U.S. public has for the WAG team)? As it is the MAG team in the U.S. is treated like a red-headed step child in favor of WAG, the swimmers, and so on. If they knew everyone in the U.S. is watching, everyone EXPECTS a medal, you think they'd perform better? 

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DawnDavenport

DawnDavenport

4 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Um not that I'd want to wish this kind of pressure on anyone but I was wondering if US MAG might do better if there were the monster expectations for the team that the Japanese, Chinese, and British have for their gymnasts (and the U.S. public has for the WAG team)? As it is the MAG team in the U.S. is treated like a red-headed step child in favor of WAG, the swimmers, and so on. If they knew everyone in the U.S. is watching, everyone EXPECTS a medal, you think they'd perform better? 

The problem is they had that kind of pressure in '04 and '12 and it didn't help them either time. In '04 they were supposed to battle China for team gold as China had just beaten them at the '03 Worlds. Turns out China finished 5th and the US finish 2nd behind Japan instead. Don't even start about the AA debacle. That was supposed to be a showdown between Paul Hamm and Yang Wei and of course the outcome resulted in the new scoring system and code. 

There was talk in '12 that it was the best US men's team since '84 and many said the talent was better than '84. Again, they qualified 1st and fell apart in finals. 

They took team bronze in '08 when no one expected them to be anywhere near the podium.

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catray

catray

Congrats to Japan! Tough competition and they earned that gold! Not sad to see China get the bronze (as opposed to silver) because they seemed way overscored on some sloppy routines (like several steps and off the mat on a ring dismount). The Russians also really kicked butt and totally earned that silver. It would have been awesome to see GB, Brazil or the US end up on the podium but oh well. You can't have so many mistakes and expect to earn a medal (unless everyone else falls down)-- looking at you, team USA.  I'm sure they are beating themselves up, though, so hopefully those with the AA and EF ahead of them can reign it in and get on the podium down the road.

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Scovies

Scovies

2 minutes ago, kittykat said:

What. The. Ever. Living. Fuck.

There better be fines and bans for Tokyo.  Absolutely inexcusable.

For the coach(es), at least. I can't imagine the athletes wanted any part of this bullshit.

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Daisy

Daisy

What the ever loving hell?

Quite frankly, if the athletes didn't want part of the BS, they should have gone up and done their programmes. In for a penny, in for a pound. FIG should remove Ukraine from all their spots in these games, and can't qualify for Tokyo. If I am Switzerland, i am pissed. I know PoshSprinkles wondered if it had anything to do with London. 

NBC better rake them over the coals... oh who am I kidding, they may not even show the blasted event. 

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Daisy

Daisy

1 minute ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I have had to pull this picture out a lot lately...Ukraine, WHY?!

 

tyra2.gif

bwahahahaha. AngryTyra. 

This is so true. Man, Ukraine. I am so disappointed. I don't even know if i want to support Oleg now :( 

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catray

catray

Wow, Ukraine, I can't with you. Scratching on purpose!? When there are other teams who could have competed?! What the fuck dudes!! Even though nothing will probably come of it, it would serve them right if they had their AA/EF spots taken away.

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kalystia1983

kalystia1983

(edited)
14 minutes ago, Daisy said:


This is so true. Man, Ukraine. I am so disappointed. I don't even know if i want to support Oleg now :( 

I know! I was all about Ukraine and Oleg after everything they've been through the last few years, but wow.  Didn't the FIG pay for their travel at some point so they could qualify for the Olympics? I can't imagine how angry they would be.

 

edited:

it was 2014 Europeans, so not a qualifying meet, my mistake. Article here: http://www.fig-gymnastics.com/site/figNews/view?id=419

Edited by kalystia1983
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fireice13

fireice13

I don't know how much the IOC cares about its image (I don't think that much since everyone knows its corrupt as hell), but if they care at all they should kick the Ukrainians out of the AA/EF due to intentionally throwing a match. Show every other team that you cannot get away with this. There has to be consequences or it will happen again down the line somewhere.

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Daisy

Daisy

Just now, kalystia1983 said:

I know! I was all about Ukraine and Oleg after everything they've been through the last few years, but wow.  Didn't the FIG pay for their travel at some point so they could qualify for the Olympics? I can't imagine how angry they would be.

i don't know. I mean for me admittedly I am a Once a 4 year Gymnastics watcher (even though i try (and fail) to keep an ear to the gymnastic ground. I simply don't get coverage here in Canada as much as I'd like.  But even if they didn't... I think what would piss me off, is that Ukraine just sounded so smug about it. "like. yah we threw it. so what?" and why? "Well we want our guys to be rested for AA/EF". like. then don't go to team finals. 

things like this piss me off to no end. 

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Rinaldo

Rinaldo

3 minutes ago, catray said:

it would serve them right if they had their AA/EF spots taken away.

Even if they don't, good luck getting high scores on whatever they do from here on.

What good has this done them, when they could have "respectfully withdrawn," given Switzerland a spot, and looked like good sports?

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kittykat

kittykat

11 minutes ago, Daisy said:

bwahahahaha. AngryTyra. 

This is so true. Man, Ukraine. I am so disappointed. I don't even know if i want to support Oleg now :( 

I know.  I was excited for Oleg since he did wonderfully in qualifying but now...I don't know.  The real loser in all this was Switzerland, they would have given their all.

Kohei, all the way!

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